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Variations in Dimensional Stability Between Edge-Joined Materials
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Sear...@mail.con2.com
Oct 31, 2012, 2:30:20 PM10/31/12
to
I just finished a repair project that required me to edge join plywood to vinyl covered particle board.
I used wood filler in the seam and intend to use Bondo to repair the particle board edges where small chips are missing.
Now since the idea is to paint the cabinet white and then apply artwork to it's sides, what will basically be a giant art sticker will have to cover the seam where the plywood and particle board meet.
So I was concerned that differences in dimensional stability between the the plywood and particle board might be an issue and was hoping for opinions and recommendations on how I should prepare the sides of the cabinet before the artwork is applied.
Originally, the artwork was screen printed onto the vinyl covered particle board as shown in this picture:
http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/ll257/Statenislander/Pole%20Position%20II%20Project/PolePositionII.jpg
But now the bottom portions of my cabinet are plywood.
Thanks.
Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.
I used wood filler in the seam and intend to use Bondo to repair the particle board edges where small chips are missing.
Now since the idea is to paint the cabinet white and then apply artwork to it's sides, what will basically be a giant art sticker will have to cover the seam where the plywood and particle board meet.
So I was concerned that differences in dimensional stability between the the plywood and particle board might be an issue and was hoping for opinions and recommendations on how I should prepare the sides of the cabinet before the artwork is applied.
Originally, the artwork was screen printed onto the vinyl covered particle board as shown in this picture:
http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/ll257/Statenislander/Pole%20Position%20II%20Project/PolePositionII.jpg
But now the bottom portions of my cabinet are plywood.
Thanks.
Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.
Swingman
Oct 31, 2012, 2:45:25 PM10/31/12
to
if the join is flush to begin with, and exposed faces and edges are
painted/topcoated in the same manner, the repaired parts will remain
flush as long as neither part gets wet in the future.
Rarely do see either of these products vary in thickness at all after
the edges and surfaces have been sealed.
--
www.eWoodShop.com
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)
http://gplus.to/eWoodShop
Larry Jaques
Oct 31, 2012, 3:53:11 PM10/31/12
to
On Wed, 31 Oct 2012 11:30:20 -0700 (PDT), Sear...@mail.con2.com
wrote:
>I just finished a repair project that required me to edge join plywood to vinyl covered particle board.
>
>I used wood filler in the seam and intend to use Bondo to repair the particle board edges where small chips are missing.
>
>Now since the idea is to paint the cabinet white and then apply artwork to it's sides, what will basically be a giant art sticker will have to cover the seam where the plywood and particle board meet.
>
>So I was concerned that differences in dimensional stability between the the plywood and particle board might be an issue and was hoping for opinions and recommendations on how I should prepare the sides of the cabinet before the artwork is applied.
Because of the flexibility of the polyester bondo, I suggested that as
the seam filler. Sand flat w/ 150 grit, prime, sand smooth w/ 320,
apply sticker.
>Originally, the artwork was screen printed onto the vinyl covered particle board as shown in this picture:
>
>http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/ll257/Statenislander/Pole%20Position%20II%20Project/PolePositionII.jpg
>
>But now the bottom portions of my cabinet are plywood.
And less prone to moisture damage. That looked like nice hardwood
ply, too.
--
It is easier to fool people than it is to
convince people that they have been fooled.
--Mark Twain
wrote:
>I just finished a repair project that required me to edge join plywood to vinyl covered particle board.
>
>I used wood filler in the seam and intend to use Bondo to repair the particle board edges where small chips are missing.
>
>Now since the idea is to paint the cabinet white and then apply artwork to it's sides, what will basically be a giant art sticker will have to cover the seam where the plywood and particle board meet.
>
>So I was concerned that differences in dimensional stability between the the plywood and particle board might be an issue and was hoping for opinions and recommendations on how I should prepare the sides of the cabinet before the artwork is applied.
the seam filler. Sand flat w/ 150 grit, prime, sand smooth w/ 320,
apply sticker.
>Originally, the artwork was screen printed onto the vinyl covered particle board as shown in this picture:
>
>http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/ll257/Statenislander/Pole%20Position%20II%20Project/PolePositionII.jpg
>
>But now the bottom portions of my cabinet are plywood.
ply, too.
--
It is easier to fool people than it is to
convince people that they have been fooled.
--Mark Twain
Sear...@mail.con2.com
Nov 1, 2012, 7:06:46 PM11/1/12
to
I have something called Thompson's Water Seal:
http://www.thompsonswaterseal.com/waterproofing-products/waterproofers/clear-multi-surface-waterproofer
But that is probably not appropriate for this project because the particle board is covered in thin vinyl.
Larry Jaques
Nov 1, 2012, 11:23:19 PM11/1/12
to
On Thu, 1 Nov 2012 16:06:46 -0700 (PDT), Sear...@mail.con2.com
wrote:
>Any recommendations on the best way to seal the cabinet before I prime, paint, and apply artwork?
>
>I have something called Thompson's Water Seal:
>http://www.thompsonswaterseal.com/waterproofing-products/waterproofers/clear-multi-surface-waterproofer
>
>But that is probably not appropriate for this project because the particle board is covered in thin vinyl.
Waterseal contains silicone. Don't even touch the can before trying to
put a finish on anything, Darren. It's evil shit, IMHO.
Most primers are called primer/sealer, so that would probably be
enough for you. Several of the guys around here like Zinsser BIN. I
probably would have liked it better if I'd thinned it prior to use.
It's a pigmented shellac-based product.
Home improvement stores carry a product called sanding sealer
(nitrocellulose lacquer or waterbased acrylic) and it is meant to be
used under paint. It's usually cheaper than paint, plus it can be
found in most stores.
--
The great thing about getting older is that
you don't lose all the other ages you've been.
-- Madeleine L'Engle
wrote:
>Any recommendations on the best way to seal the cabinet before I prime, paint, and apply artwork?
>
>I have something called Thompson's Water Seal:
>http://www.thompsonswaterseal.com/waterproofing-products/waterproofers/clear-multi-surface-waterproofer
>
>But that is probably not appropriate for this project because the particle board is covered in thin vinyl.
put a finish on anything, Darren. It's evil shit, IMHO.
Most primers are called primer/sealer, so that would probably be
enough for you. Several of the guys around here like Zinsser BIN. I
probably would have liked it better if I'd thinned it prior to use.
It's a pigmented shellac-based product.
Home improvement stores carry a product called sanding sealer
(nitrocellulose lacquer or waterbased acrylic) and it is meant to be
used under paint. It's usually cheaper than paint, plus it can be
found in most stores.
--
The great thing about getting older is that
you don't lose all the other ages you've been.
-- Madeleine L'Engle
Sear...@mail.con2.com
Nov 3, 2012, 8:15:02 PM11/3/12
to lja...@invalid.diversifycomm.com
OK. I made a decision.
It would appear that this vinyl would have to come off the particle board. That way I can sand at the seam where it meets the plywood replacement piece. Then I can seal/prime the entire cabinet as one piece before painting and adding artwork.
Would a heat gun work?
The vinyl actually lifted up where I cut of the damaged portion and replaced with plywood, but it seems to be fused onto the rest of the cabinet pretty good.
Larry Jaques
Nov 4, 2012, 12:11:50 AM11/4/12
to
On Sat, 3 Nov 2012 17:15:02 -0700 (PDT), Sear...@mail.con2.com
wrote:
--big snip--
>Thanks a lot.
>
>OK. I made a decision.
>
>It would appear that this vinyl would have to come off the particle board. That way I can sand at the seam where it meets the plywood replacement piece. Then I can seal/prime the entire cabinet as one piece before painting and adding artwork.
>
>Would a heat gun work?
Yes, but try a regular hair dryer first. It should loosen the
adhesive and you can pull it up. Carefully slice through just the
vinyl with a razor blade at the point you want to pull it up to and
mask the top part so it doesn't get heated. A weighted piece of
plywood would work. Use mineral spirits to clean off any residual
adhesive. Try acetone or lacquer thinner if it's stubborn.
The hair dryer is less likely to melt the adhesive off the vinyl.
If that doesn't work, use a heat gun at a good distance. The temp of
air coming from one is several times hotter than the flash point of
the vinyl.
>The vinyl actually lifted up where I cut of the damaged portion and replaced with plywood, but it seems to be fused onto the rest of the cabinet pretty good.
Yeah, it might have hardened a bit, too.
wrote:
--big snip--
>Thanks a lot.
>
>OK. I made a decision.
>
>It would appear that this vinyl would have to come off the particle board. That way I can sand at the seam where it meets the plywood replacement piece. Then I can seal/prime the entire cabinet as one piece before painting and adding artwork.
>
>Would a heat gun work?
adhesive and you can pull it up. Carefully slice through just the
vinyl with a razor blade at the point you want to pull it up to and
mask the top part so it doesn't get heated. A weighted piece of
plywood would work. Use mineral spirits to clean off any residual
adhesive. Try acetone or lacquer thinner if it's stubborn.
The hair dryer is less likely to melt the adhesive off the vinyl.
If that doesn't work, use a heat gun at a good distance. The temp of
air coming from one is several times hotter than the flash point of
the vinyl.
>The vinyl actually lifted up where I cut of the damaged portion and replaced with plywood, but it seems to be fused onto the rest of the cabinet pretty good.
Sear...@mail.con2.com
Nov 12, 2012, 11:53:49 AM11/12/12
to lja...@invalid.diversifycomm.com
Baldy here doesn't have a hair dryer. :-)
When I first tried my heat gun it over loaded the circuit, so I switched it to low and using a putty knife with consistent pressure it's tedious but seems to be working and coming off clean.
Larry Jaques
Nov 12, 2012, 5:32:44 PM11/12/12
to
On Mon, 12 Nov 2012 08:53:49 -0800 (PST), Sear...@mail.con2.com
wrote:
>On Sunday, November 4, 2012 12:11:26 AM UTC-4, Larry Jaques wrote:
>> On Sat, 3 Nov 2012 17:15:02 -0700 (PDT), Sear...@mail.con2.com
;)
>When I first tried my heat gun it over loaded the circuit, so I switched it to low and using a putty knife with consistent pressure it's tedious but seems to be working and coming off clean.
I used one on 26 painted cabinet doors in my old house (something I
would -never- do again) and learned the trick during the second one.
Pre-warm ahead of yourself and then when the goo gels and your putty
knife starts sliding, move down and keep the heat ahead of the knife.
You've probably gleaned that by now.
With stickers, though, it's different. You have to get it hot enough
to release the adhesive from the wood but not the vinyl. 'Heat, cool,
and pull' is the method which worked for pulling decals off auto paint
for me. I haven't done game cabs, but the concept should work.
--
While we have the gift of life, it seems to me that only tragedy
is to allow part of us to die - whether it is our spirit, our
creativity, or our glorious uniqueness.
-- Gilda Radner
wrote:
>On Sunday, November 4, 2012 12:11:26 AM UTC-4, Larry Jaques wrote:
>> On Sat, 3 Nov 2012 17:15:02 -0700 (PDT), Sear...@mail.con2.com
>> Yes, but try a regular hair dryer first. It should loosen the
>> adhesive and you can pull it up. Carefully slice through just the
>> vinyl with a razor blade at the point you want to pull it up to and
>> mask the top part so it doesn't get heated. A weighted piece of
>> plywood would work. Use mineral spirits to clean off any residual
>> adhesive. Try acetone or lacquer thinner if it's stubborn.
>> adhesive and you can pull it up. Carefully slice through just the
>> vinyl with a razor blade at the point you want to pull it up to and
>> mask the top part so it doesn't get heated. A weighted piece of
>> plywood would work. Use mineral spirits to clean off any residual
>> adhesive. Try acetone or lacquer thinner if it's stubborn.
>Thanks a lot.
>
>Baldy here doesn't have a hair dryer. :-)
WHAT? You should have one for drying the scalp wax, if nothing else.
>
>Baldy here doesn't have a hair dryer. :-)
;)
>When I first tried my heat gun it over loaded the circuit, so I switched it to low and using a putty knife with consistent pressure it's tedious but seems to be working and coming off clean.
would -never- do again) and learned the trick during the second one.
Pre-warm ahead of yourself and then when the goo gels and your putty
knife starts sliding, move down and keep the heat ahead of the knife.
You've probably gleaned that by now.
With stickers, though, it's different. You have to get it hot enough
to release the adhesive from the wood but not the vinyl. 'Heat, cool,
and pull' is the method which worked for pulling decals off auto paint
for me. I haven't done game cabs, but the concept should work.
--
While we have the gift of life, it seems to me that only tragedy
is to allow part of us to die - whether it is our spirit, our
creativity, or our glorious uniqueness.
-- Gilda Radner
Mike Marlow
Nov 12, 2012, 8:06:05 PM11/12/12
to
(4" or so), that chucks into your drill motor. You literally erase the
vinyl. I use it on cars all the time. The nice part is they do not harm
the paint finish. Might work on wood as well. Commonly available auto
parts stores.
--
-Mike-
mmarlo...@windstream.net
Sear...@mail.con2.com
Nov 12, 2012, 10:22:58 PM11/12/12
to lja...@invalid.diversifycomm.com
On Monday, November 12, 2012 5:32:41 PM UTC-5, Larry Jaques wrote:
> On Mon, 12 Nov 2012 08:53:49 -0800 (PST), Sear...@mail.con2.com
>
> wrote:
>
>
>
> >On Sunday, November 4, 2012 12:11:26 AM UTC-4, Larry Jaques wrote:
>
> >> On Sat, 3 Nov 2012 17:15:02 -0700 (PDT), Sear...@mail.con2.com
>
>
>
> >> Yes, but try a regular hair dryer first. It should loosen the
>
> >> adhesive and you can pull it up. Carefully slice through just the
>
> >> vinyl with a razor blade at the point you want to pull it up to and
>
> >> mask the top part so it doesn't get heated. A weighted piece of
>
> >> plywood would work. Use mineral spirits to clean off any residual
>
> >> adhesive. Try acetone or lacquer thinner if it's stubborn.
>
>
>
> >Thanks a lot.
>
> >
>
> >Baldy here doesn't have a hair dryer. :-)
>
>
>
> WHAT? You should have one for drying the scalp wax, if nothing else.
>
> ;)
Don't use wax. I have a built-in shine. :)
> On Mon, 12 Nov 2012 08:53:49 -0800 (PST), Sear...@mail.con2.com
>
> wrote:
>
>
>
> >On Sunday, November 4, 2012 12:11:26 AM UTC-4, Larry Jaques wrote:
>
> >> On Sat, 3 Nov 2012 17:15:02 -0700 (PDT), Sear...@mail.con2.com
>
>
>
> >> Yes, but try a regular hair dryer first. It should loosen the
>
> >> adhesive and you can pull it up. Carefully slice through just the
>
> >> vinyl with a razor blade at the point you want to pull it up to and
>
> >> mask the top part so it doesn't get heated. A weighted piece of
>
> >> plywood would work. Use mineral spirits to clean off any residual
>
> >> adhesive. Try acetone or lacquer thinner if it's stubborn.
>
>
>
> >Thanks a lot.
>
> >
>
> >Baldy here doesn't have a hair dryer. :-)
>
>
>
> WHAT? You should have one for drying the scalp wax, if nothing else.
>
> ;)
>
> >When I first tried my heat gun it over loaded the circuit, so I switched it to low and using a putty knife with consistent pressure it's tedious but seems to be working and coming off clean.
>
>
>
> I used one on 26 painted cabinet doors in my old house (something I
>
> would -never- do again) and learned the trick during the second one.
>
> Pre-warm ahead of yourself and then when the goo gels and your putty
>
> knife starts sliding, move down and keep the heat ahead of the knife.
>
> You've probably gleaned that by now.
>
>
>
> With stickers, though, it's different. You have to get it hot enough
>
> to release the adhesive from the wood but not the vinyl. 'Heat, cool,
>
> and pull' is the method which worked for pulling decals off auto paint
>
> for me. I haven't done game cabs, but the concept should work.
I noticed that the cabinet was smooth where I used the heat and a little rough where I just pulled and the vinyl took with it tiny grains. So I assume that pulling took the most adhesive with it. But there is no stickiness to the cabinet either way.
After sanding I just have to figure out what kind of primer to put on.
I do have BEHR Interior #75 White Enamel Undercoater Primer and Sealer that can be used under Satin, Semi Gloss and High Gloss Enamel Topcoats.
When done, the cabinet will be painted white before applying new vinyl sideart.
Sear...@mail.con2.com
Nov 12, 2012, 10:29:03 PM11/12/12
to
Mike Marlow
Nov 12, 2012, 11:11:23 PM11/12/12
to
Sear...@mail.con2.com wrote:
>
> I had tried on of those "abrasive" wheels I picked up from the BORG
> to strip paint of the metal coin doors. It didn't do anything to the
> vinyl.
>
This is not an abrasive wheel.
>
> I had tried on of those "abrasive" wheels I picked up from the BORG
> to strip paint of the metal coin doors. It didn't do anything to the
> vinyl.
>
--
-Mike-
mmarlo...@windstream.net
Larry Jaques
Nov 12, 2012, 11:38:48 PM11/12/12
to
On Mon, 12 Nov 2012 19:22:58 -0800 (PST), Sear...@mail.con2.com
>> With stickers, though, it's different. You have to get it hot enough
>> to release the adhesive from the wood but not the vinyl. 'Heat, cool,
>> and pull' is the method which worked for pulling decals off auto paint
>> for me. I haven't done game cabs, but the concept should work.
>
>Actually I alternated between heating ahead of the knife and just trying to pull. Both sides took about 3-1/2 hours.
Ouch!
>I noticed that the cabinet was smooth where I used the heat and a little rough where I just pulled and the vinyl took with it tiny grains. So I assume that pulling took the most adhesive with it. But there is no stickiness to the cabinet either way.
That's good.
>After sanding I just have to figure out what kind of primer to put on.
A nice sticky alkyd.
>I do have BEHR Interior #75 White Enamel Undercoater Primer and Sealer that can be used under Satin, Semi Gloss and High Gloss Enamel Topcoats.
Good enough, I reckon.
>When done, the cabinet will be painted white before applying new vinyl sideart.
I'm guessing that you removed the entire sheet of vinyl art and am
surprised that you didn't just remove the bottom section and repaint
with a nice, glossy white to match the vinyl. Are these yours, or is
this a job for someone who requested the replaced artwork?
wrote:
>On Monday, November 12, 2012 5:32:41 PM UTC-5, Larry Jaques wrote:
>> On Mon, 12 Nov 2012 08:53:49 -0800 (PST), Sear...@mail.con2.com
>On Monday, November 12, 2012 5:32:41 PM UTC-5, Larry Jaques wrote:
>> On Mon, 12 Nov 2012 08:53:49 -0800 (PST), Sear...@mail.con2.com
>> WHAT? You should have one for drying the scalp wax, if nothing else.
>>
>> ;)
>
>Don't use wax. I have a built-in shine. :)
Ear wax, eh? (Ewwwwwwww!)
>>
>> ;)
>
>Don't use wax. I have a built-in shine. :)
>> With stickers, though, it's different. You have to get it hot enough
>> to release the adhesive from the wood but not the vinyl. 'Heat, cool,
>> and pull' is the method which worked for pulling decals off auto paint
>> for me. I haven't done game cabs, but the concept should work.
>
>Actually I alternated between heating ahead of the knife and just trying to pull. Both sides took about 3-1/2 hours.
>I noticed that the cabinet was smooth where I used the heat and a little rough where I just pulled and the vinyl took with it tiny grains. So I assume that pulling took the most adhesive with it. But there is no stickiness to the cabinet either way.
>After sanding I just have to figure out what kind of primer to put on.
>I do have BEHR Interior #75 White Enamel Undercoater Primer and Sealer that can be used under Satin, Semi Gloss and High Gloss Enamel Topcoats.
>When done, the cabinet will be painted white before applying new vinyl sideart.
surprised that you didn't just remove the bottom section and repaint
with a nice, glossy white to match the vinyl. Are these yours, or is
this a job for someone who requested the replaced artwork?
Sear...@mail.con2.com
Nov 13, 2012, 12:51:53 PM11/13/12
to lja...@invalid.diversifycomm.com
After the sides look like one piece I can paint and ad new side art.
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