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TS Aligner Jr. ???

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Roger Cyre

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Sep 24, 2001, 10:47:06 PM9/24/01
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Looking for opinions about the TS Aligner Jr. Preferably from
owner/users.

Walt Akers

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Sep 25, 2001, 7:03:58 AM9/25/01
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I own one... I used it once and I haven't taken it out
of the box in two years.

Walt

Roger Cyre wrote:

> Looking for opinions about the TS Aligner Jr. Preferably from
> owner/users.

----------------------------------------------------------------
Walt Akers
http://www.twisted-oaks.org/Woodwork
----------------------------------------------------------------

Voce@whisper.com Sotto Voce

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Sep 25, 2001, 7:32:48 AM9/25/01
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I use mine everytime I change a blade. Before I took off the blade to clean
it, the blade was off by 0.002". After reinstalling the blade, it was off
by 0.009" and the cuts are much rougher. I don't know what I did wrong, but
I thorougly cleaned the blade and flanges to remove any particles that might
be making the blade flutter. The flange might be off just a bit and I have
to find the sweet spot. Of course, the only way I'm ever going to know for
certain is with the TS Aligner. I also check my fence once in a while just
to make sure that it hasn't gone out of alignment.

I've also used to to align the top of the saw to the blade to within .001"
and the fence to within .002" (keeping the fence a little bit open towards
the back to prevent kickback). This took only a few minutes to do with the
TS Aligner.

I recently checked my chop saw trying to figure out why the cuts have been
so bad lately. Out comes the TS Aligner. The blade is fluttering something
awful, something like .01". I haven't figure out the cause of the problem
but the TS-Aligner will most certainly tell me if I'm making progress.

I think the TS Aligner Jr was one of the best purchases I've ever made. I'd
rebuy it in an instant if I ever lost it.


"Walt Akers" <ak...@twisted-oaks.org> wrote in message
news:3BB0634A...@twisted-oaks.org...

Bob

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Sep 25, 2001, 9:17:35 AM9/25/01
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Well you have had two replies to your post....
One guy loves his Aligner and uses it a lot the second guy used it once

2 years ago and not since...

I do not own one... but like you though about purchasing one UNTIL
I saw the price... Come on... My saws cut very well and I do have to
say That once in a while I will run into problems with rough cuts etc
but nothing big time..and nothing I can not check using simple tools
around the shop...

If I needed one even 3-4 times a year I think I may buy one... But
Sheeze I have been making sawdust for over 40 years and survived
this long without any problems...

Bob Griffiths
and honestly I am not cheap... if I need something I buy it... If I can
get by without it I just do not bother unless it saves me time (a lot of
time
in this case)

typecast

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Sep 25, 2001, 8:57:49 AM9/25/01
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Roger,

I have one and am very happy with it. I use it to align my table saw and
jointer, and haul it out once a month or so to check things as my
contractor's saw doesn't hold its settings quite as well as I'd like.

I think it is a useful tool and would not hesitate to recommend it.

Galen

"Roger Cyre" <rc...@home.com> wrote in message
news:3BAFF06F...@home.com...

Don

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Sep 25, 2001, 10:30:00 AM9/25/01
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I had one and gave it away because I purchased a Vega 50 inch fence which I
found to be extremely accurate. Everytime I check it, it is right on, so I
decided I no longer need the ts aligner. It was very handy to use before I
got my Vega.

"Bob" <rg...@fred.net> wrote in message news:3BB083EF...@fred.net...

Bob Sosenko

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Sep 25, 2001, 10:30:53 AM9/25/01
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Guess this kinda boils down to "Do you want one" - not "Do you need one".

Kinda like a hobbyist owning an pneumatic nailer or any powered tool. A
hammer works fine and so does a handsaw but I'm just not into Neanderism...

As a weekend warrior, I can't justify a single woodworking tool in my shop
as really needing it but I own them because I wanted them, pure and simple.
Yep, own the TS Aligner too and use it often enough to say it was worth the
price.

Best advice - if you want, go for it, justify it later.......help the
economy now...

Bob S.


Rick Chamberlain

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Sep 25, 2001, 10:49:46 AM9/25/01
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Don,

I'm glad your fence is square, but the TS Aligner can be used for much more
than just squaring a fence. I've used mine to adjust and check my table
saw, RAS, and bench drill press for runout. I've only really had to USE the
thing a few times, but I feel a lot better about the accuracy and safety of
my equipment since I got it.

The way I see it, I have a few thousand invested in equipment, and I spent
$130 or so to keep it running right. For me, that is cheap insurance.

Rick

"Don" <d...@nospamm.com> wrote in message
news:Ix0s7.102415$xb.55...@news1.mntp1.il.home.com...

Pat Barber

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Sep 25, 2001, 11:02:48 AM9/25/01
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I own one and have used it once(at this point) to set up my jointer
and contractor saw. If you own a contractor saw, I would recommend
one. If you ever plan to change the blades in a jointer I would
also recommend one. While precision can become an obsession, this
will at least get you there much quicker. I see folks discussing
tolerances that I couldn't achieve if I wanted to, but this tool
will get you very close to the ultimate goal....

Don Levey

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Sep 25, 2001, 11:57:52 AM9/25/01
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I have it, and use it perhaps 3-4 times a year. I know that's not
often, but I love it, and even so infrequently it's worth it.
-Don

Jim Frantz

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Sep 25, 2001, 7:01:39 PM9/25/01
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Just finished attending a Kelly Mehler seminar. He recommends definitely
having a dial indicator and a precision square. He made or makes whatever
bracket he needs to hold the dial indicator in position. He also has and
uses a magnetic base. Fortunately, you don't need to align tools often, but
the frustration level is way too high if you can't make a truly square cut.

I have a TS Aligner Jr. The nice part is that it comes with all the
brackets and do-dahs to check just about every machine. So, if you are into
making brackets and mounts, then just get a dial indicator and a good class
2 or better square. I don't have a lot of time to work wood and when I do
get time, I don't want to making brackets. I'm much happier now that my
tools are aligned and adjusted properly.

-Jim-

"Roger Cyre" <rc...@home.com> wrote in message
news:3BAFF06F...@home.com...

Scott Post

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Sep 25, 2001, 9:27:46 PM9/25/01
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In article <3BAFF06F...@home.com>, Roger Cyre <rc...@home.com> wrote:
>Looking for opinions about the TS Aligner Jr. Preferably from
>owner/users.
>

I've got a $10 imported dial indicator that does just fine. Screw a
board to your miter gage, drill a hole in it to mount the indicator
and you can square up your tablesaw blade and fence. Unscrew the board
from the miter gage and clamp it to your drill press table to check
for runout. Rinse and repeat for your other tools. I like new tools
as much as the next guy, but this is one place where you don't need
to spend much money.

--
Scott Post sep...@hotpop.com http://members.home.net/sepost

Ed Bennett

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Sep 26, 2001, 4:20:23 AM9/26/01
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"Roger Cyre" <rc...@home.com> wrote in message
news:3BAFF06F...@home.com...
> Looking for opinions about the TS Aligner Jr. Preferably from
> owner/users.
>

I'm an owner and a user, but I'm also the manufacturer so my opinion is
probably a bit biased ;-). I've read through the replies so far and would
have to say that most are very valid and valuable opinions. I hope you don't
mind if I comment further...

1. Is a TS-Aligner (or any other alignment jig) absolutely necessary? No,
it's not. Everything that the Aligner can do for you can also be done without
it. The Aligner just makes the process a lot easier. In the same way, a
tablesaw isn't really absolutely necessary. Neither is a router, jointer, or
a drill press. Everything that they do for you can be done just as well
without them if you invest enough patience, time, and effort. In fact, a
whole bunch of fine woodworking was done long before carbon steel was first
invented.

2. If you are only looking to align the fence and blade on your table saw,
then the Aligner will be an overkill. Like one reply said, get yourself a
dial indicator and attach it to a stick of wood (visit
http://www.ts-aligner.com/tsjrlitevsdistick.htm to see how this solution
compares to the Jr. Lite).

3. Those that have said that they used their Aligner once or very infrequently
probably prefer to do most of their woodworking by trial and error with lots
of test cuts. I have a Jr. in my shop and use it all the time. Whenever I
need to square something up (like blade, miter gauge, drill press, etc.) I
grab my Jr. It's a lot easier and faster than trying to sight tiny gaps by
eye with a square. And, it saves tons of time in making precise angle
adjustments. Setting cutter heights is also a snap. If you like fiddling
around with machine adjustments and making test cuts then you probably won't
find much use for an Aligner. If you are frustrated by machine adjustments
and find yourself making little progress on your projects, then you'll learn
to appreciate what an Aligner can do for you.

4. If you are a machinist and have free access to a milling machine with DRO,
you could probably make your own dial indicator fixturing that can accomplish
all that an Aligner can do for you. You might even save yourself a few bucks
(if you don't get it anodized). But, if you have to pay for access to that
milling machine, or you have to pay someone to do it for you it will cost you
many times the price. This isn't something that you can hack out in a few
hours using a hacksaw, file, and drill press. People who say otherwise just
don't understand what they are talking about.

5. I'm giving away the Jr. video for *FREE* this year. It demonstrates many
of the things that you can do with an Aligner. Get a copy and see for
yourself if it's something you can use. At the very least, the video can help
you to get the most out of your own dial indicator jig. And, those who think
their Aligner is only good for blade/fence alignment should get one too. Just
send me an email message with your name and address (no spam will result from
your request). You can also download the entire user's guide from my web
site.

If you have any questions, please feel free to send email. If you think
others in the group would benefit from the answers, post a followup to this
message.

Thanks,

--

Ed Bennett
e...@ts-aligner.com
Home of the TS-Aligner
Visit my web site: http://www.ts-aligner.com

---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.281 / Virus Database: 149 - Release Date: 9/18/01


John Siegel

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Sep 26, 2001, 7:16:34 PM9/26/01
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Ed Bennett wrote:
>
> 3. Those that have said that they used their Aligner once or very infrequently
> probably prefer to do most of their woodworking by trial and error with lots
> of test cuts. I have a Jr. in my shop and use it all the time. Whenever I
> need to square something up (like blade, miter gauge, drill press, etc.) I
> grab my Jr. It's a lot easier and faster than trying to sight tiny gaps by
> eye with a square. And, it saves tons of time in making precise angle
> adjustments. Setting cutter heights is also a snap. If you like fiddling
> around with machine adjustments and making test cuts then you probably won't
> find much use for an Aligner. If you are frustrated by machine adjustments
> and find yourself making little progress on your projects, then you'll learn
> to appreciate what an Aligner can do for you.
>

Ed - this reason presupposes a need to constantly readjust the tools. If
I set up the table saw so the blade, miter slot and fence are all
parallel I expect it to stay that way for a long time. As far as blade
height goes I find the most difficult part not the ability to measure
but getting the blade turned to top dead center. Besides I find that a
large percentage of my cuts are through cuts so height isn't important.
Please don't think that I do not think the Aligner is a good
instrument. It's just that I find it more of a periodic calibration
instrument rather than a routine need for a day in the shop.
John

CW

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Sep 26, 2001, 9:21:09 PM9/26/01
to
Well, I do have access to a milling machine and anything else I would need
to build one of these devices. That said, if I were in the market for such a
device, I would buy one of yours. Considering the work in this thing, the
price can't be beat. Besides, I make chips 40 hours (minimum) a week, I
would rather make shavings and sawdust on my own time.
BTW, the DRO is optional.
--
CW
KC7NOD

"Ed Bennett" <ej...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:9os3i8$6at$1...@nntp9.atl.mindspring.net...


> 4. If you are a machinist and have free access to a milling machine with
DRO,
> you could probably make your own dial indicator fixturing that can
accomplish
> all that an Aligner can do for you. You might even save yourself a few
bucks
> (if you don't get it anodized). But, if you have to pay for access to
that
> milling machine, or you have to pay someone to do it for you it will cost
you
> many times the price. This isn't something that you can hack out in a few
> hours using a hacksaw, file, and drill press. People who say otherwise
just
> don't understand what they are talking about.
>

Nachas

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Sep 26, 2001, 11:45:01 PM9/26/01
to
Dear Ed, I have the TS aligner Jr., the original model and I would love a copy
of the video.

Martin Cohn
1524 Willard Street
San Francisco, CA 94117

charlieb

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Sep 27, 2001, 5:20:46 AM9/27/01
to
The TS-Aligner Jr Deluxe (Ed you really have to change the
name) or its equivalent is necessary if you have a combination
unit like the Robland X31 since it is often necessary to
remove the rip fence in order to use the shaper or planer
(the shaper shares the saw table and the fence rail is
attached to the end of the jointer outfeed table.

Euro combination machines often have "non-standard" dovetail
miter slots. Ed modifies the TS-A at no extra cost, a rare
thing these days.

Slick tool and given all the machining and bearings etc.
the price is right when you consider what a good 3' straight
edge runs.

Thank you Mr. Bennett.

char...@accesscom.com

Tony

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Sep 27, 2001, 5:54:41 AM9/27/01
to

I bought one years ago, and use it often. It's the early first
version, and a lot of improvements have been made. Even so, I use it
every time I swap a blade since its easy and quick, just to make sure
I haven't trapped some little piece of sawdust and sent the blade out
of alignment. I also use it once in a while to verify the fence, and
my Unifence does get out of alignment. But it gets moved and removed
maybe 20 times a day. Without the aligner I'd have left a lot more
burn marks due to misalignment than I do now. I make mostly fine
jewelry boxes, display cases, and the like from exotic wood, and
dead-accurate alignment is very important for me.

Someday I want to get one of the newer ones, as it will do a bit more
and do it a bit better than my old one.

Tony


On Tue, 25 Sep 2001 11:03:58 GMT, Walt Akers <ak...@twisted-oaks.org>
wrote:

Ed Bennett

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Sep 27, 2001, 4:49:28 PM9/27/01
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John Siegel <JohnA...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message news:<3BB30ADE...@worldnet.att.net>...

> Ed - this reason presupposes a need to constantly readjust the tools. If
> I set up the table saw so the blade, miter slot and fence are all
> parallel I expect it to stay that way for a long time. As far as blade
> height goes I find the most difficult part not the ability to measure
> but getting the blade turned to top dead center. Besides I find that a
> large percentage of my cuts are through cuts so height isn't important.
> Please don't think that I do not think the Aligner is a good
> instrument. It's just that I find it more of a periodic calibration
> instrument rather than a routine need for a day in the shop.
> John

Hi John. Yes, you are absolutely right. If you don't change any of
the adjustments on your machines and tools, then you'll likely find
the Aligner to be an overkill. But, a tablesaw (for example) has a
lot more adjustments than just blade and fence alignment. Many of
these adjustments (like blade tilt and miter gauge setting) are
intended to be used frequently. Some people avoid changing them
because it is so difficult to obtain accurate adjustments by trial and
error (and the scales are useless for anything but crude
approximations). This is a case where the Aligner comes in handy on a
regular basis. It accounts for probably 75% of my regular Aligner
use.

Same is true for something like a drill press. How many times do you
need to check spindle and chuck runout? Not very often! But, how
many times do you need to make sure that the hole you are drilling is
going to be absolutely square? If you've ever done any chair work,
you know that all the mortise/tennon joints are angled. How do you
ensure that left and right sides are complimentary (match)? Trial and
error? Or, do you just trust the table tilt scale and figure you can
force fit (or hide) any problems that result? Maybe, like lots of
woodworkers, you just plain avoid difficult projects like chairs. To
me, that's just not an acceptable solution. The Aligner shines here
too.

Do you run a jointer with dull knives just because they are difficult
to change? Do you tolerate snipe at the ends of your jointed edges
because it's difficult to properly set the outfeed table? Do you
always leave the jointer fence in the same place, at 90 degrees? Why?
Wouldn't it be better to take full advantage of all the features on a
jointer? Wouldn't it be better to make use of the full width of the
knives by positioning the fence? Wouldn't it be better to maintain
sharp knives that all cut equally (properly adjusted)? Of course it
would, but lots of woodworkers don't.

I also agree with you about blade height settings on a table saw.
Even when you are using a dado blade, it's rare that the height
setting is critical. But, what about making raised panel doors on a
shaper or router table? Height settings on the rail/stile cutter sets
are quite critical. Why waste time and wood doing this by trial and
error if you have an Aligner? And, the height adjustment on lock
miter bits is also quite critical. It can be done in seconds with an
Aligner, or you can do it by trial and error...

Basically, all woodworking machines have adjustments beyond basic
alignment that are intended for regular use. Unfortunately, the
manufacturers of these machines have seen fit to equip them with
incredibly crude adjustment mechanisms. You can:

1. Avoid changing these settings (and lose a lot of functionality)

2. Avoid projects that require precise settings or use tips and tricks
to hide errors (an unacceptable compromise in my opinion)

3. Arrive at proper settings by trial and error (tedius and
frustrating in my opinion)

3. You can use a precise measurement instrument to make the
adjustments quickly and accurately (obviously my preference).

Ed Bennett

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Sep 27, 2001, 5:37:28 PM9/27/01
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"CW" <cma...@sprynet.com> wrote in message news:<9otvcl$99l$1...@slb3.atl.mindspring.net>...

> Well, I do have access to a milling machine and anything else I would need
> to build one of these devices. That said, if I were in the market for such a
> device, I would buy one of yours. Considering the work in this thing, the
> price can't be beat. Besides, I make chips 40 hours (minimum) a week, I
> would rather make shavings and sawdust on my own time.
> BTW, the DRO is optional.
> --
> CW
> KC7NOD

Hi CW,

The only part that I really prefer DRO for is the Angle Attachment
Gauge. The center to center distance between the indicator stem hole
and the stylus point should be very precise or angle measurements will
be off. Everything else is rather insensitive.

CW

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Sep 27, 2001, 8:51:40 PM9/27/01
to
If given a choice, I prefer a DRO myself. I had considered the Angle
Attachment. Even an average screw is generally out less than .002 per foot.
This translates to .00016 positioning error in the one inch center distance
between the holes on the part. This is closer than the resolution of the
average DRO, though having the readout does provide peace of mind.
--
CW
KC7NOD

"Ed Bennett" <e...@ts-aligner.com> wrote in message
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