Rockler FX router lift

[Gramp's shop]

Any of you folks have this lift:

http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page=21380&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_term=&utm_content=pla&utm_campaign=PLA&gclid=CK6n6trvmrcCFRJp7AodwxgAbA

Seems like a decent price for a lift when compared to others that are roughly twice as much. Looking to avoid the penny-wiuse, pound-foolish syndrome if this lift is a dog.

Larry

[SonomaProducts.com]

Not familiar personally but looking at the screw drive it seems they avoid one problem of some lifts. They use fairly coarse threads for the elevation rod. Some systems use very fine threads (ie Incra), I suppose to support fine adjustment but fine threads get easily fouled with sawdust. I've learned over the years, those with coarser threads don't seem to have this issue.

[Pat Barber]

I have the Jessem but that the Rockler version looks pretty good but
notice that it only supports limited set of "smaller" routers not the
big 3HP production routers. If you can live with that, it looks to be
fine.

It will depend on what you have and where you want to be.

[Matt]

I got the Rockler lift about a month ago - haven't used it a lot yet,
but so far it works quite well. I have the PC 690, which fits very nicely.

[Gramp's shop]

I decided to go for it as my existing table router is a PC690. Of course, the plate is smaller than my existing plate ... so I need build a new top. The last one was melamine over 3/4 MDF available on the cheap from Menards. I took a peek at Woodcraft for the phenolic plywood, but that's $60 or about 10x what I'd pay for the MDF. Any reason to go the extra mile? Also, won't feel too bad about mucking up the MDF when I rout an insert for the plate. I'm shooting for a nice tight fit this time.

Larry

[woodchucker]

my opinion Larry,
get 2 pieces of mdf from the shorts at HD.
get a piece of formica, glue
put the two pieces together, then skin with formica on both sides
you'll have a nice stout table top.

I personally would not put a slot for a miter gauge
I never use it. I just use the fence and a squared piece of wood to back
it up... or a jig to hold for raised panels...

my opinion... not necessary, but as long as you are going for a lift
make it sturdy.

--
Jeff

[Lew Hodgett]

"Gramp's shop" wrote:
I decided to go for it as my existing table router is a PC690.

-------------------------------------------------------
As long as you can live with a 1" bit dia. limitation, you are good to
go.

Lew

[woodchucker]

Where do you get that limitation?
it's got a 1.5 ring.. but you can go sans the ring, or buy another and
open it up..
I didn't see a 1" limitation.


--
Jeff

[Lew Hodgett]

"woodchucker" wrote:

> Where do you get that limitation?
> it's got a 1.5 ring.. but you can go sans the ring, or buy another
> and open it up..
> I didn't see a 1" limitation.

----------------------------------------------------
Bit RPM.

The 690 operates about 22-25,000 RPM.

Once the bit gets bigger than a 1/2" cove/roundover,
the bit mfg starts limiting the bit RPM to about 12,000, maybe less.

The 3 HP routers can go a low as about 8,000 RPM which allows
use of those 3" dia. panel bits.

Lew

[woodchucker]

I understand, but it's not a limitation of the lift. You have a wierd
way of beating around the bush...


--
Jeff

[Gramp's shop]

I'm considering using this set up for panel-raising operations. While I recognize the speed issues using a PC690, I seem to recall that there are speed reducers available, oui?

Larry

[Lew Hodgett]

"Gramp's shop" wrote:

> I'm considering using this set up for panel-raising operations.
> While I recognize the speed issues using a PC690, I seem to recall
> that there are speed reducers available, oui?

-------------------------------------------------------------
You can probably find a speed control; however, consider the
following:

The output torque of a universal motor is directly proportional to
operating RPM.

If you are able to reduce the RPM of a PC690, you will also reduce
it's cutting torque.

Translation:

Taking even the shallowest cuts with a large bit and a PC690 at
8,000 RPM will result in burn cuts, especially in you are working
with Maple.

The same rules apply to a larger router such as a Milwaukee 5625;
however,
you are starting with a much bigger HP motor, so you will still have
enough
torque to get a clean cut, even at the 8,000 RPM level.

If you truly want to use large bits in a table mounted router, you
probably want
to start thinking about a larger table mounted router as well as the
lift.

Lew

[no...@none.com]

On Thu, 16 May 2013 21:56:06 -0700, "Lew Hodgett"

>If you truly want to use large bits in a table mounted router, you
>probably want to start thinking about a larger table mounted
>router as well as the lift.

I certainly agree. Consider that using panel, rail and stile type
router bits are one of the biggest motivators for setting up a table
mounted router.

All I'd suggest is that he takes a moment to consider before going out
to purchase this particular router lift.

[Leon]

The slot Is not necessarily for a miter gauge, I use it to anchor
feather boards when running narrow stock through.

[woodchucker]

Not true. I have a Bosch 1617evs and I cut panels fine..
I just use tempered hardboard spacers on the fence to take smaller cuts.
I pull one off and go again... simple and fast.

Larry you can pick up a speed controller yes.. I picked up one from HF
years ago for 9.99 on sale..

I had a Craftsman router probably 40-50 years old without speed control.
works great.

my 1617evs both of them are variable speed and have good torque.

--
Jeff

[Gramp's shop]

Thanks, guys. I also have a variable speed Dewalt that I believe will fit this lift.

[k...@attt.bizz]

The problem I have with table mounting variable speed routers is that
it's usually impossible to adjust the speed once it's under the table.
They're made to be operated by hand with little thought of table
mounting. I prefer to have a dedicated router for the table(s) and if
variable speed is needed, build the controller into the table, too. If
you're sinking that much money into a table, might just go all-in.

[Leon]

Simple solution.. Do you have a cell phone with a camera? Take a picture
of the speed dial and adjust accordingly. I used to use a mirror. :-)

[woodchucker]

>>> Jeff
>>
>> Thanks, guys. I also have a variable speed Dewalt that I believe will fit this lift.
>
> The problem I have with table mounting variable speed routers is that
> it's usually impossible to adjust the speed once it's under the table.
> They're made to be operated by hand with little thought of table
> mounting. I prefer to have a dedicated router for the table(s) and if
> variable speed is needed, build the controller into the table, too. If
> you're sinking that much money into a table, might just go all-in.
>

I have a bosch, I don't find it a problem getting to the dial.
Certain units may have a problem, but I think that depends on the unit.



--
Jeff

[k...@attt.bizz]

On Sun, 19 May 2013 17:18:55 -0400, woodchucker <nos...@nospam.com>
wrote:

I haven't found any that can be accessed easily from the underside of
a table. ..and that goes for the switches, too. If I put it in a
table, it's dedicated, with the controls on the outside of the box. On
my latest table, even the collet nut is accessible above the table
top. ;-) I'm not a contortionist. ;-)

[Pat Barber]

On 5/16/2013 8:20 PM, Gramp's shop wrote:
> I'm considering using this set up for panel-raising operations. While I recognize the speed issues using a PC690, I seem to recall that there are speed reducers available, oui?
>

Yes...there are speed reducers but they are not good for the
router motor.

If you are going to raise panels with a 690, use a vertical
panel raiser.

I think a router table needs a variable speed router for
typical work and that includes big ass panel raising bits.


Think your way of working before you purchase.

[k...@attt.bizz]

On Tue, 21 May 2013 13:47:21 -0700, Pat Barber <mboce...@att.net>
wrote:

How is a variable speed control bad for a universal motor when a
variable speed control on a router (with a universal motor) isn't?

[Leon]

I can offer that an external speed control is typically rated for "X"
amperage, often much greater than that of the unit is regulating.

Typically routers with built in speed control also have the ability to
monitor the router speed and give more gas with it senses the RPM's
slowing down. External speed controllers are not a whole much more than
a dimmer switch for your lighting and do not monitor speed control.

I have both, I used an external on a 15 amp single speed router and
while it did control the speed while running unloaded if you added a
load you had to adjust accordingly. With a built-in speed controller it
tends to maintain the RPM's to a constant up until you exceed the
capacity of the router.

[k...@attt.bizz]

On Tue, 21 May 2013 20:09:10 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:

Not sure I buy that but how is that bad for the motor? As long as you
don't stall the thing, there shouldn't be any problems.

[Leon]

Just giving you actual experience of the problems associated with using
a built in vs. external speed control.

[Leon]

Think about a router running at at half the speed under a load with
reduced available power. Working harder, spinning slower, fan not
keeping up with heat being generated.

[k...@attt.bizz]

On Wed, 22 May 2013 12:55:39 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>

I'm sure *SOME* routers have RPM feedback in their speed controls but
it is certainly not ubiquitous. Most *are* just heavy-duty lamp
dimmers. Again, my question was more about why an external controller
would damage a universal motor when an internal wouldn't damage the
same motor.

[k...@attt.bizz]

On Wed, 22 May 2013 12:58:12 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>

Not buying it, at least until the motor stalls. Universal motors
aren't like induction motors, which do have a negative resistance and
will attempt to maintain RPM at any load (or voltage) until they burn
up. There is some increase in current due to the reduction in
back-EMF but it's not that huge. Whether the control is internal or
external doesn't change this.

[woodchucker]

I would have to agree with that.
The internal units don't protect from heat. they keep the performance
optimized..

But on the other hand isn't that controlling voltage.. so maybe I don't
agree. Wouldn't a dimmer(voltage control) lower the voltage, while the
feedback unit, under load would increase the voltage (good) whereas the
dimmer approach pulls more amps at a lower voltage (bad)....

I'm not sure where I stand now.. :-)

--
Jeff

[Pat Barber]

On 5/22/2013 11:42 AM, k...@attt.bizz wrote:

> Not buying it, at least until the motor stalls. Universal motors
> aren't like induction motors, which do have a negative resistance and
> will attempt to maintain RPM at any load (or voltage) until they burn
> up. There is some increase in current due to the reduction in
> back-EMF but it's not that huge. Whether the control is internal or
> external doesn't change this.
>

Since other folks actual experience is not acceptable, why not just
go your own way with a speed controller and let us know what you
found out ?

You have to know that many on this list have been doing this for a
good long time and have made many mistakes along the way and they
share that with others to be helpful.

I am sure that there are E/E's on this list that could explain the more
technical aspects of all this but I doubt you would believe them.

[Scott Lurndal]

Pat Barber <mboce...@att.net> writes:
>On 5/22/2013 11:42 AM, k...@attt.bizz wrote:
>
>> Not buying it, at least until the motor stalls. Universal motors
>> aren't like induction motors, which do have a negative resistance and
>> will attempt to maintain RPM at any load (or voltage) until they burn
>> up. There is some increase in current due to the reduction in
>> back-EMF but it's not that huge. Whether the control is internal or
>> external doesn't change this.
>>
>
>Since other folks actual experience is not acceptable, why not just
>go your own way with a speed controller and let us know what you
>found out ?

I suspect that regardless of whether a speed controller is damaging
to a router, it really depends on the usage model (duty cycle) of the
router. Using a speed control to do a half-dozen raised panels over
a 12-month period is quite different from using a speed control in a
cabinet shop to raise panels every day.

FWIW, I've used a speed-control on a PC690 when spinning a large
horizontal panel raising bit in a router table. It worked fine and
I've not had any problems with the router in the intervening decade+.

Today, I use a Delta HD shaper instead.

scott

[Leon]

Every one of my three different brand routers that I have bought since
1998 have the rpm monitoring, and soft start. Chances are a soft start
variable speed router will do this. Triton, Bosch, Makita

[Leon]

And I am not buying that!

[Leon]

Heat protection is a side benefit from maintaining the speed when under
a load. If the router slows down due to a load it is going to heat up
faster.

[k...@attt.bizz]

On Wed, 22 May 2013 17:53:01 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>

No, soft-start does *not* imply RPM sensing. Thinking about it, I
don't think it's possible with universal motors.

[k...@attt.bizz]

On Wed, 22 May 2013 16:33:59 -0400, woodchucker <nos...@nospam.com>
wrote:

Which does the opposite. ;-)

>But on the other hand isn't that controlling voltage.. so maybe I don't
>agree. Wouldn't a dimmer(voltage control) lower the voltage, while the
>feedback unit, under load would increase the voltage (good)

Yes, the feedback would increase the voltage, which also increases the
power consumed.

>whereas the
>dimmer approach pulls more amps at a lower voltage (bad)....

No. This would happen with an induction motor but not so much with a
universal type.

[k...@attt.bizz]

On Wed, 22 May 2013 13:34:43 -0700, Pat Barber <mboce...@att.net>
wrote:

>On 5/22/2013 11:42 AM, k...@attt.bizz wrote:
>
>> Not buying it, at least until the motor stalls. Universal motors
>> aren't like induction motors, which do have a negative resistance and
>> will attempt to maintain RPM at any load (or voltage) until they burn
>> up. There is some increase in current due to the reduction in
>> back-EMF but it's not that huge. Whether the control is internal or
>> external doesn't change this.
>>
>
>Since other folks actual experience is not acceptable, why not just
>go your own way with a speed controller and let us know what you
>found out ?

How am I going to "find out" whether or not it's "bad for" the router?

>You have to know that many on this list have been doing this for a
>good long time and have made many mistakes along the way and they
>share that with others to be helpful.

I'm not looking for heresay.

>I am sure that there are E/E's on this list that could explain the more
>technical aspects of all this but I doubt you would believe them.

I am an EE, though motors aren't "my thing".

[woodchucker]

Not sure I understand, what's not possible... my Bosch routers have both
soft start and rpm sensing..

--
Jeff

[k...@attt.bizz]

On Wed, 22 May 2013 17:54:05 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>

Which part?

[k...@attt.bizz]

On Wed, 22 May 2013 21:25:58 -0400, woodchucker <nos...@nospam.com>
wrote:

Nothing, I was thinking about something else at the same time and got
the two crossed.

[Mike Marlow]

k...@attt.bizz wrote:

> I'm sure *SOME* routers have RPM feedback in their speed controls but
> it is certainly not ubiquitous. Most *are* just heavy-duty lamp
> dimmers. Again, my question was more about why an external controller
> would damage a universal motor when an internal wouldn't damage the
> same motor.

I'm not so sure about that. Most soft starts are not at all just heavy duty
lamp dimmers. Or - is that not what you are talking about?

--

-Mike-
mmarlo...@windstream.net

[Leon]

I believe I said that all of my different brand routers that have rpm
monitoring also have soft start.

You are making a mountain out of a mole hill.

[Leon]

On 5/22/2013 8:26 PM, k...@attt.bizz wrote:

>>
>>
>>
>> Whether the control is internal or
>>> external doesn't change this.
>>>
>> And I am not buying that!
>
> Which part?
>

Not going to argue with you.