Spray painting
billhum
painting? I would describe myself as a serious amateur and the machine
would be used for the occaisonal spray painting of laquer in a domestic
workshop.
Perhaps there is a site online with information: I would be pleased to know
its address.
Thanks,
Billhum
Wilson
better job and avoids lots of problems with oil and water in the air supply.
There have been MANY posts, so do some searching.
Wilson
"billhum" <bil...@btinternet.com> wrote in message
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Mike Marlow
Hmmmm... minimum size, huh? Tough question to answer. Bigger is better
though so buy the biggest you can afford and have room for. It really
depends on your useage though. Spray painting covers a big area of
concerns. You will need to figure out what type of spray equipment you'll
be using, what types of materials you'll eventually be spraying, what
anicllary type of equipment you may use.
I have a 5HP, 30gal single stage compressor in my garage and I use it for
everything from air wrenches (plenty sufficient, though I do wish I could
get more psi out of it), to DA's for body work (not nearly sufficient for
this), to spray painting cars (plenty sufficient for this - both single
stage paints and base/clear coat), and assorted other less demanding tasks.
Capacity and Cubic Feet Per Minute (CFM) are the two ratings you'll be
concerned for. 8-9 CFM will be ok for almost any gun (I use DeVilbiss and
Binks guns) and 30 gal is enough capacity for that also. For general
woodworking this is certainly plenty of compressor. If you're like me and
you do lots of other things than woodworking and need a compressor that does
it all, I'd be looking at a two stage unit with 60 gals of capacity and over
10CFM of delivery rate.
--
-Mike-
mma...@sprintmail.com
Leon
particular gun you want to buy, if the gun is half way decent.
"billhum" <bil...@btinternet.com> wrote in message
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Bay Area Dave
gun requires a fair sized compressor with lots of CFM. Then you have to
filter the air of moisture and oil vapor. If you get an oilless pump
they are noisy as hell and may have a short life. The oil type
compressors will develop more and more blow-by as they age, leading to
substantial oil vapor which may require 2 filter stages to remove it
before the spray gun.
dave
Mike G
other uses I'd suggest a HVLP system. I've heard good things about the under
$100 units sold by Harbor Freight and Rocklers.
They're not as, well, as robust, as the more expensive units but will spray
common stains and sprays well and would certainly accommodate the work of a
someone doing occasional spraying.
Note; I don't consider latex paint as a common stain or finish and would
have doubts about spraying latex with one of them. My apologies to those who
do paint most of their work but that's just the way I feel about it.
--
Mike G.
mi...@heirloom-woods.net
Heirloom Woods
www.heirloom-woods.net
"billhum" <bil...@btinternet.com> wrote in message
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Carol Dufour
"billhum" <bil...@btinternet.com> a écrit dans le message de
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mp
> painting? I would describe myself as a serious amateur and the machine
> would be used for the occaisonal spray painting of laquer in a domestic
> workshop.
The compressor requirements will vary with the gun you choose. Typically, a
110v 15 amp compressor with 20-30 gallon tank will be ok, and has the
advantage of being able to be used for other tools. Something like the PC
6025 or similar units will do the job (oil lube and cast iron cylinders are
much quieter).
Others have mentioned turbine units as an alternative to compressors. I've
done some research myself over the last few weeks, and the consensus seems
to be that turbine units can be a problem with lacquer due to their hot air
delivery, which continues to get hotter the more the unit is on. An air
compressor with an inline water/oil filter seems easier to deal with, and
the choice of non-turbine guns much greater.
Here's a few good online sources of information.
http://www.homesteadfinishing.com/phpBB2/index.php?sid=647c2c1d6d5e9b26f8c261c0007baca6
http://www.targetcoatings.com/msgboard.html
http://www.woodweb.com/cgi-bin/forums/finishing.pl
http://www.woodfinishingsupplies.com/forum_frm.htm
Bay Area Dave
thinks about the PITA that moisture in the air delivery systems causes.
I know that cars are painted with water based products, but lacquer is
also used. They resort to copper lines placed in dry ice to condensate
the moisture out. or they go the big bucks route and buy various
driers. the effective ones are expensive; not your garden variety $30
gizmo from Campbell Hausfeld or HF. Lacquer and moisture in the inlet
air don't make for a fine finish.
you can always add retarder if spraying on a hot day with a HVLP, and
the air isn't hot right away anyway. For small projects it's no big deal.
I'll easily deal with HVLP hot air as opposed to moisture/oil laden
compressed air.
dave
Mike Hide
furniture grade laquer/sealer etc and some paint .
I don't have any fancy smancy HVLP guns just a small devilbiss touchup gun
[suction cup] a smilar quart cup gun and a pressure pot gun . Never had a
water problem, tank is drained regularly nor oil problems.
the one drawback is a 2 HP compressor will not run anything but guns and a
bradnailer .Even the brad nailer was a problem because my compressor runs on
220 volts and hauling it around is exhausting and then one still has to find
a 220 outlet . My solution to this problem for jobs offsite is a 20 gallon
air tank charged to 100psi will run a brad nailer for a couple of hours at
least . If you are working in the sticks and run out of pressure then just
get the tank recharged at the nearest gas station......mjh
"billhum" <bil...@btinternet.com> wrote in message
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mp
> thinks about the PITA that moisture in the air delivery systems causes.
Do you know of any autobody painters using turbines to spray lacquer? I'm
under the impression that most of them use compressed air. If it's such a
PITA, then why do they use it?
> I know that cars are painted with water based products, but lacquer is
> also used. They resort to copper lines placed in dry ice to condensate
> the moisture out. or they go the big bucks route and buy various
> driers. the effective ones are expensive; not your garden variety $30
> gizmo from Campbell Hausfeld or HF. Lacquer and moisture in the inlet
> air don't make for a fine finish.
Home woodfinishing isn't quite the same as painting cars in a production
environment. My garden variety moisture filter ($20) seems to work just
fine. I've just finished lacquering a kitchen and the finish is perfect,
moisture/oil contamination wasn't an issue.
> you can always add retarder if spraying on a hot day with a HVLP, and
> the air isn't hot right away anyway. For small projects it's no big deal.
An issue with adding retarder to compensate for turbine heat buildup is that
the temperature gets hotter the more you use the turbine, which changes the
required amount of retarder. I'd imagine this would vary quite a bit
depending on the make and model of turbine. May not be an issue with some, a
serious issue with others.
The advice I got from several respected sources was to steer clear of
turbines and go with either compressed air or airless. The good airless
units (Kremlin airmix, etc.) were out of my price range so I chose
compressed air.
> I'll easily deal with HVLP hot air as opposed to moisture/oil laden
> compressed air.
You make it sound scary, "moisture/oil laden" air. It's not that bad,
really. It's a small issue that's easily taken care of.
Mike Marlow
> talk to a guy who sprays lacquer on vehicles for a living a see what
> he thinks about the PITA that moisture in the air delivery systems
> causes. I know that cars are painted with water based products, but
> lacquer is also used. They resort to copper lines placed in dry ice
> to condensate the moisture out. or they go the big bucks route and
> buy various
> driers. the effective ones are expensive; not your garden variety $30
> gizmo from Campbell Hausfeld or HF. Lacquer and moisture in the inlet
> air don't make for a fine finish.
>
> you can always add retarder if spraying on a hot day with a HVLP, and
> the air isn't hot right away anyway. For small projects it's no big
> deal.
>
> I'll easily deal with HVLP hot air as opposed to moisture/oil laden
> compressed air.
>
Not to argue with your points Dave but to do justice to the original
question, I spray with a basic compressor and a simple moisture trap all of
the time. As I mentioned in my earlier reply, I spray cars as well as
woodworking. With any compressor, it is essential to drain the water out of
the tank before beginning a spray job as all compressors will build up water
in the tank as a by product of comression. I also use a water trap at the
gun - one of those orange round things you see at NAPA or any other auto
parts store. I keep it on the gun no matter what I'm spraying. It's good
for a lot - a ton of spraying before it needs to be replaced. I only say
all of this to counter the suggestion that a basic air compressor is
inadequate for HVLP techniques or poses some unique or expensive problems.
--
-Mike-
mma...@sprintmail.com
Bay Area Dave
IT IS scary! A brand new compressor will run pretty clean. give it a
few years, and then get back to me. I've worked with MANY compressed
air systems. One place I worked, first thing in the morning we'd get
nothing but water out of the system if the designated employee forget to
keep up with moisture drainage each day. It was like turning on a
faucet instead of using compressed air; and that was just overnight, in
CA where humidity is around 50 - 70 percent. If you find it's not a
problem, then it's NOT a problem!
Since you claim you'll not be in a "production" environment, why all the
talk about hot turbine air? It takes a while to heat up. You could
spray an entire piece of furniture inside and out and the air isn't
gonna be hot. So I say you are making a big deal out of a non-issue. On
the other hand if it takes you 1/2 an hour to spray, then yes, it will
get warm.
I don't know if autobody sprayers use HVLP currently. My guess is they
do. My earlier comments were about what happens when they DON'T. I
worked in the automotive industry for 16 years and spent some time
discussing their problems. YOu can believe what I said or not.
If YOUR experience is compressors are hunky-dory and HVLP sucks, do what
floats your boat.
dave
Bay Area Dave
systems are as clean as the next one. That is what my point was. I did
note earlier than a new compressor is fairly oil free and of course the
moisture is dependent on humidity, temp, compressed air temp (a 2 stage
is much better for preventing moisture formation than a 1 stage). Your
filter that works for you may NOT prevent contamination in another
shop's air system. Been there, done that.
dave
Edwin Pawlowski
"Bay Area Dave" <d...@nospam.com> wrote in message
> One place I worked, first thing in the morning we'd get
> nothing but water out of the system if the designated employee forget to
> keep up with moisture drainage each day. It was like turning on a
> faucet instead of using compressed air; and that was just overnight, in
> CA where humidity is around 50 - 70 percent. If you find it's not a
> problem, then it's NOT a problem!
I know of a Navy ship where they thought a line was mis-labeled as the only
thing out of it was water. They drained about 60 gallons before they got
air to flow.
At work we has a similar thing with water in the lines. Gummed up
everything. We eventually put in a chiller and filter systems for clean dry
air. Instead of cleaning pneumatics a few times a day, it is now a few
times a year. For spraying paint dry air is a must.
Ed
Mike G
> Do you know of any auto body painters using turbines to spray lacquer?
>I'm under the impression that most of them use compressed air. If it's such
> a PITA, then why do they use it?
>
That is pretty much a no brainer. Body shops have a thousand and one uses
for compressors, BIG compressors, everything from lifts to presses, to
tools. I'd go so far as to say you could not run a commercial body shop
without a big compressor. Now, if you already have a compressor why buy a
turbine HVLP unit when a simple moisture trap and filter, also already in
place to take care of any compressor induced spraying problems