I just finished a repair project that required me to edge join plywood to vinyl covered particle board.
I used wood filler in the seam and intend to use Bondo to repair the particle board edges where small chips are missing.
Now since the idea is to paint the cabinet white and then apply artwork to it's sides, what will basically be a giant art sticker will have to cover the seam where the plywood and particle board meet.
So I was concerned that differences in dimensional stability between the the plywood and particle board might be an issue and was hoping for opinions and recommendations on how I should prepare the sides of the cabinet before the artwork is applied.
Originally, the artwork was screen printed onto the vinyl covered particle board as shown in this picture:
On 10/31/2012 1:30 PM, Search...@mail.con2.com wrote:
> I just finished a repair project that required me to edge join plywood to vinyl covered particle board.
> I used wood filler in the seam and intend to use Bondo to repair the particle board edges where small chips are missing.
> Now since the idea is to paint the cabinet white and then apply artwork to it's sides, what will basically be a giant art sticker will have to cover the seam where the plywood and particle board meet.
> So I was concerned that differences in dimensional stability between the the plywood and particle board might be an issue and was hoping for opinions and recommendations on how I should prepare the sides of the cabinet before the artwork is applied.
> Originally, the artwork was screen printed onto the vinyl covered particle board as shown in this picture:
> But now the bottom portions of my cabinet are plywood.
IME, and regardless of the difference in the materials you mention,
if the join is flush to begin with, and exposed faces and edges are painted/topcoated in the same manner, the repaired parts will remain flush as long as neither part gets wet in the future.
Rarely do see either of these products vary in thickness at all after the edges and surfaces have been sealed.
On Wed, 31 Oct 2012 11:30:20 -0700 (PDT), Search...@mail.con2.com
wrote:
>I just finished a repair project that required me to edge join plywood to vinyl covered particle board.
>I used wood filler in the seam and intend to use Bondo to repair the particle board edges where small chips are missing.
>Now since the idea is to paint the cabinet white and then apply artwork to it's sides, what will basically be a giant art sticker will have to cover the seam where the plywood and particle board meet.
>So I was concerned that differences in dimensional stability between the the plywood and particle board might be an issue and was hoping for opinions and recommendations on how I should prepare the sides of the cabinet before the artwork is applied.
Because of the flexibility of the polyester bondo, I suggested that as
the seam filler. Sand flat w/ 150 grit, prime, sand smooth w/ 320,
apply sticker.
>Originally, the artwork was screen printed onto the vinyl covered particle board as shown in this picture:
On Wednesday, October 31, 2012 2:45:33 PM UTC-4, Swingman wrote:
> On 10/31/2012 1:30 PM, Search...@mail.con2.com wrote:
> > I just finished a repair project that required me to edge join plywood to vinyl covered particle board.
> > I used wood filler in the seam and intend to use Bondo to repair the particle board edges where small chips are missing.
> > Now since the idea is to paint the cabinet white and then apply artwork to it's sides, what will basically be a giant art sticker will have to cover the seam where the plywood and particle board meet.
> > So I was concerned that differences in dimensional stability between the the plywood and particle board might be an issue and was hoping for opinions and recommendations on how I should prepare the sides of the cabinet before the artwork is applied.
> > Originally, the artwork was screen printed onto the vinyl covered particle board as shown in this picture:
>But that is probably not appropriate for this project because the particle board is covered in thin vinyl.
Waterseal contains silicone. Don't even touch the can before trying to
put a finish on anything, Darren. It's evil shit, IMHO.
Most primers are called primer/sealer, so that would probably be
enough for you. Several of the guys around here like Zinsser BIN. I
probably would have liked it better if I'd thinned it prior to use.
It's a pigmented shellac-based product.
Home improvement stores carry a product called sanding sealer
(nitrocellulose lacquer or waterbased acrylic) and it is meant to be
used under paint. It's usually cheaper than paint, plus it can be
found in most stores.
--
The great thing about getting older is that you don't lose all the other ages you've been.
-- Madeleine L'Engle
> >But that is probably not appropriate for this project because the particle board is covered in thin vinyl.
> Waterseal contains silicone. Don't even touch the can before trying to
> put a finish on anything, Darren. It's evil shit, IMHO.
> Most primers are called primer/sealer, so that would probably be
> enough for you. Several of the guys around here like Zinsser BIN. I
> probably would have liked it better if I'd thinned it prior to use.
> It's a pigmented shellac-based product.
> Home improvement stores carry a product called sanding sealer
> (nitrocellulose lacquer or waterbased acrylic) and it is meant to be
> used under paint. It's usually cheaper than paint, plus it can be
> found in most stores.
> --
> The great thing about getting older is that
> you don't lose all the other ages you've been.
> -- Madeleine L'Engle
Thanks a lot.
OK. I made a decision.
It would appear that this vinyl would have to come off the particle board. That way I can sand at the seam where it meets the plywood replacement piece. Then I can seal/prime the entire cabinet as one piece before painting and adding artwork.
Would a heat gun work?
The vinyl actually lifted up where I cut of the damaged portion and replaced with plywood, but it seems to be fused onto the rest of the cabinet pretty good.
On Sat, 3 Nov 2012 17:15:02 -0700 (PDT), Search...@mail.con2.com
wrote:
--big snip--
>Thanks a lot.
>OK. I made a decision.
>It would appear that this vinyl would have to come off the particle board. That way I can sand at the seam where it meets the plywood replacement piece. Then I can seal/prime the entire cabinet as one piece before painting and adding artwork.
>Would a heat gun work?
Yes, but try a regular hair dryer first. It should loosen the
adhesive and you can pull it up. Carefully slice through just the
vinyl with a razor blade at the point you want to pull it up to and
mask the top part so it doesn't get heated. A weighted piece of
plywood would work. Use mineral spirits to clean off any residual
adhesive. Try acetone or lacquer thinner if it's stubborn.
The hair dryer is less likely to melt the adhesive off the vinyl.
If that doesn't work, use a heat gun at a good distance. The temp of
air coming from one is several times hotter than the flash point of
the vinyl.
>The vinyl actually lifted up where I cut of the damaged portion and replaced with plywood, but it seems to be fused onto the rest of the cabinet pretty good.
Yeah, it might have hardened a bit, too.
--
The great thing about getting older is that you don't lose all the other ages you've been.
-- Madeleine L'Engle
On Sunday, November 4, 2012 12:11:26 AM UTC-4, Larry Jaques wrote:
> On Sat, 3 Nov 2012 17:15:02 -0700 (PDT), Search...@mail.con2.com
> wrote:
> --big snip--
> >Thanks a lot.
> >OK. I made a decision.
> >It would appear that this vinyl would have to come off the particle board. That way I can sand at the seam where it meets the plywood replacement piece. Then I can seal/prime the entire cabinet as one piece before painting and adding artwork.
> >Would a heat gun work?
> Yes, but try a regular hair dryer first. It should loosen the
> adhesive and you can pull it up. Carefully slice through just the
> vinyl with a razor blade at the point you want to pull it up to and
> mask the top part so it doesn't get heated. A weighted piece of
> plywood would work. Use mineral spirits to clean off any residual
> adhesive. Try acetone or lacquer thinner if it's stubborn.
> The hair dryer is less likely to melt the adhesive off the vinyl.
> If that doesn't work, use a heat gun at a good distance. The temp of
> air coming from one is several times hotter than the flash point of
> the vinyl.
> >The vinyl actually lifted up where I cut of the damaged portion and replaced with plywood, but it seems to be fused onto the rest of the cabinet pretty good.
> Yeah, it might have hardened a bit, too.
> --
> The great thing about getting older is that
> you don't lose all the other ages you've been.
> -- Madeleine L'Engle
Thanks a lot.
Baldy here doesn't have a hair dryer. :-)
When I first tried my heat gun it over loaded the circuit, so I switched it to low and using a putty knife with consistent pressure it's tedious but seems to be working and coming off clean.
On Mon, 12 Nov 2012 08:53:49 -0800 (PST), Search...@mail.con2.com
wrote:
>On Sunday, November 4, 2012 12:11:26 AM UTC-4, Larry Jaques wrote:
>> On Sat, 3 Nov 2012 17:15:02 -0700 (PDT), Search...@mail.con2.com
>> Yes, but try a regular hair dryer first. It should loosen the
>> adhesive and you can pull it up. Carefully slice through just the
>> vinyl with a razor blade at the point you want to pull it up to and
>> mask the top part so it doesn't get heated. A weighted piece of
>> plywood would work. Use mineral spirits to clean off any residual
>> adhesive. Try acetone or lacquer thinner if it's stubborn.
>Thanks a lot.
>Baldy here doesn't have a hair dryer. :-)
WHAT? You should have one for drying the scalp wax, if nothing else.
;)
>When I first tried my heat gun it over loaded the circuit, so I switched it to low and using a putty knife with consistent pressure it's tedious but seems to be working and coming off clean.
I used one on 26 painted cabinet doors in my old house (something I
would -never- do again) and learned the trick during the second one.
Pre-warm ahead of yourself and then when the goo gels and your putty
knife starts sliding, move down and keep the heat ahead of the knife.
You've probably gleaned that by now.
With stickers, though, it's different. You have to get it hot enough
to release the adhesive from the wood but not the vinyl. 'Heat, cool,
and pull' is the method which worked for pulling decals off auto paint
for me. I haven't done game cabs, but the concept should work.
--
While we have the gift of life, it seems to me that only tragedy is to allow part of us to die - whether it is our spirit, our creativity, or our glorious uniqueness.
-- Gilda Radner
Larry Jaques wrote:
> On Mon, 12 Nov 2012 08:53:49 -0800 (PST), Search...@mail.con2.com
> wrote:
>> On Sunday, November 4, 2012 12:11:26 AM UTC-4, Larry Jaques wrote:
>>> On Sat, 3 Nov 2012 17:15:02 -0700 (PDT), Search...@mail.con2.com
>>> Yes, but try a regular hair dryer first. It should loosen the
>>> adhesive and you can pull it up. Carefully slice through just the
>>> vinyl with a razor blade at the point you want to pull it up to and
>>> mask the top part so it doesn't get heated. A weighted piece of
>>> plywood would work. Use mineral spirits to clean off any residual
>>> adhesive. Try acetone or lacquer thinner if it's stubborn.
>> Thanks a lot.
>> Baldy here doesn't have a hair dryer. :-)
> WHAT? You should have one for drying the scalp wax, if nothing else.
> ;)
>> When I first tried my heat gun it over loaded the circuit, so I
>> switched it to low and using a putty knife with consistent pressure
>> it's tedious but seems to be working and coming off clean.
> I used one on 26 painted cabinet doors in my old house (something I
> would -never- do again) and learned the trick during the second one.
> Pre-warm ahead of yourself and then when the goo gels and your putty
> knife starts sliding, move down and keep the heat ahead of the knife.
> You've probably gleaned that by now.
> With stickers, though, it's different. You have to get it hot enough
> to release the adhesive from the wood but not the vinyl. 'Heat, cool,
> and pull' is the method which worked for pulling decals off auto paint
> for me. I haven't done game cabs, but the concept should work.
Another approach is to use an eraser wheel. It's like a large round eraser (4" or so), that chucks into your drill motor. You literally erase the vinyl. I use it on cars all the time. The nice part is they do not harm the paint finish. Might work on wood as well. Commonly available auto parts stores.
> >When I first tried my heat gun it over loaded the circuit, so I switched it to low and using a putty knife with consistent pressure it's tedious but seems to be working and coming off clean.
> I used one on 26 painted cabinet doors in my old house (something I
> would -never- do again) and learned the trick during the second one.
> Pre-warm ahead of yourself and then when the goo gels and your putty
> knife starts sliding, move down and keep the heat ahead of the knife.
> You've probably gleaned that by now.
> With stickers, though, it's different. You have to get it hot enough
> to release the adhesive from the wood but not the vinyl. 'Heat, cool,
> and pull' is the method which worked for pulling decals off auto paint
> for me. I haven't done game cabs, but the concept should work.
Actually I alternated between heating ahead of the knife and just trying to pull. Both sides took about 3-1/2 hours.
I noticed that the cabinet was smooth where I used the heat and a little rough where I just pulled and the vinyl took with it tiny grains. So I assume that pulling took the most adhesive with it. But there is no stickiness to the cabinet either way.
After sanding I just have to figure out what kind of primer to put on.
I do have BEHR Interior #75 White Enamel Undercoater Primer and Sealer that can be used under Satin, Semi Gloss and High Gloss Enamel Topcoats.
When done, the cabinet will be painted white before applying new vinyl sideart.
On Mon, 12 Nov 2012 19:22:58 -0800 (PST), Search...@mail.con2.com
wrote:
>On Monday, November 12, 2012 5:32:41 PM UTC-5, Larry Jaques wrote:
>> On Mon, 12 Nov 2012 08:53:49 -0800 (PST), Search...@mail.con2.com
>> WHAT? You should have one for drying the scalp wax, if nothing else.
>> ;)
>Don't use wax. I have a built-in shine. :)
Ear wax, eh? (Ewwwwwwww!)
>> With stickers, though, it's different. You have to get it hot enough
>> to release the adhesive from the wood but not the vinyl. 'Heat, cool,
>> and pull' is the method which worked for pulling decals off auto paint
>> for me. I haven't done game cabs, but the concept should work.
>Actually I alternated between heating ahead of the knife and just trying to pull. Both sides took about 3-1/2 hours.
Ouch!
>I noticed that the cabinet was smooth where I used the heat and a little rough where I just pulled and the vinyl took with it tiny grains. So I assume that pulling took the most adhesive with it. But there is no stickiness to the cabinet either way.
That's good.
>After sanding I just have to figure out what kind of primer to put on.
A nice sticky alkyd.
>I do have BEHR Interior #75 White Enamel Undercoater Primer and Sealer that can be used under Satin, Semi Gloss and High Gloss Enamel Topcoats.
Good enough, I reckon.
>When done, the cabinet will be painted white before applying new vinyl sideart.
I'm guessing that you removed the entire sheet of vinyl art and am
surprised that you didn't just remove the bottom section and repaint
with a nice, glossy white to match the vinyl. Are these yours, or is
this a job for someone who requested the replaced artwork?
--
While we have the gift of life, it seems to me that only tragedy is to allow part of us to die - whether it is our spirit, our creativity, or our glorious uniqueness.
-- Gilda Radner
On Monday, November 12, 2012 11:38:45 PM UTC-5, Larry Jaques wrote:
> On Mon, 12 Nov 2012 19:22:58 -0800 (PST), Search...@mail.con2.com
> wrote:
> >On Monday, November 12, 2012 5:32:41 PM UTC-5, Larry Jaques wrote:
> >> On Mon, 12 Nov 2012 08:53:49 -0800 (PST), Search...@mail.con2.com
> >> WHAT? You should have one for drying the scalp wax, if nothing else.
> >> ;)
> >Don't use wax. I have a built-in shine. :)
> Ear wax, eh? (Ewwwwwwww!)
> >> With stickers, though, it's different. You have to get it hot enough
> >> to release the adhesive from the wood but not the vinyl. 'Heat, cool,
> >> and pull' is the method which worked for pulling decals off auto paint
> >> for me. I haven't done game cabs, but the concept should work.
> >Actually I alternated between heating ahead of the knife and just trying to pull. Both sides took about 3-1/2 hours.
> Ouch!
> >I noticed that the cabinet was smooth where I used the heat and a little rough where I just pulled and the vinyl took with it tiny grains. So I assume that pulling took the most adhesive with it. But there is no stickiness to the cabinet either way.
> That's good.
> >After sanding I just have to figure out what kind of primer to put on.
> A nice sticky alkyd.
> >I do have BEHR Interior #75 White Enamel Undercoater Primer and Sealer that can be used under Satin, Semi Gloss and High Gloss Enamel Topcoats.
> Good enough, I reckon.
> >When done, the cabinet will be painted white before applying new vinyl sideart.
> I'm guessing that you removed the entire sheet of vinyl art and am
> surprised that you didn't just remove the bottom section and repaint
> with a nice, glossy white to match the vinyl. Are these yours, or is
> this a job for someone who requested the replaced artwork?
After over three decades of scratches this machine needs all new side art. And the entire cabinet needs to be painted in order for the repair to be seamless.
After the sides look like one piece I can paint and ad new side art.
