OT - Prefinished wood flooring vs. on-site finishing
B a r r y B u r k e J r .
I know this really belongs in alt,home-repair, but this group
has much better (and more talented <G>) members, so I'm asking here.
I'll soon be installing 3/4" solid wood floors in my existing home.
I'm looking for insight on pre finished wood floors vs. on-site
sanding and finishing. Here's what I've got so far:
Pre-finished:
Pros - Flawless factory applied finish, no mess, no denied
access to area while finish dries.
Cons - More expensive floor material (but nearly the same
total cost), less selection of colors and woods.
Raw wood:
Pros - Cheaper flooring material, more color and wood
selections, finish material may seal between boards better.
Cons - Sanding and finishing effort and mess, finish smell,
denied access to area while finish cures, possible finish flaws due to
dust, etc...
Two big issues have me leaning toward pre finished. The home is a
cape, so there is only one way upstairs and to the bathrooms. Also,
we have three live pushsticks and a large fish tank. The pushsticks
may cause problems with wet finishes and we need access to the fish
tank, which is on the second floor.
Any thoughts?
Thanks,
Barry
Silvan
> Any thoughts?
I can't actually afford to put plans into action right yet anyway, but I've
been mulling this one over for a long time, and have my mind made up. I'm
almost certainly going to go pre-finished. FWIW.
--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan <dmmc...@users.sourceforge.net>
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/
Stephen M
Prefinished tends to be maufactured with a microbevel to handle the
inevitable slight elivation changes between "boards". To me, this this is a
significanly different look from a sanded smooth surface which I personally
prefer
YMMV
and yes, sanding is one hell of a mess.
-Steve
"B a r r y B u r k e J r ." <Keep_it_in_the_...@aol.com> wrote
in message news:9dhrsv0s5gd2vpf9l...@4ax.com...
Charles Spitzer
can do yourself. this leads to more time before it has to be refinished.
"B a r r y B u r k e J r ." <Keep_it_in_the_...@aol.com> wrote
in message news:9dhrsv0s5gd2vpf9l...@4ax.com...
todd
in message news:9dhrsv0s5gd2vpf9l...@4ax.com...
I put down a prefinished 3/4 oak floor a few years back in a bedroom. The
one thing I don't like is that the surface isn't smooth like it would be if
it was sanded. However, we had someone over to the house that saw the floor
and remarked that the gloss on the finish was much better than hers, which
had just been refinished. If I had it to do again, I think I would still go
with prefinished. I don't think you can minimize the amount of reduced
effort and mess by not having to sand and finish, as long as you're
comfortable with the end result, which is not a smooth surface.
todd
David Zaret
concern. also, if you get water or other fluids on the floor, doesn't
the fact that sealer hasn't had the chance to seal between the boards
cause issues?
curious,
--- dz
Walt
> Folks,
> I know this really belongs in alt,home-repair, but this group
> has much better (and more talented <G>) members, so I'm asking here.
>
> I'll soon be installing 3/4" solid wood floors in my existing home. I'm
> looking for insight on pre finished wood floors vs. on-site sanding and
> finishing. Here's what I've got so far:
>
[snip]
We've recently put floors in and will be putting more in soon (as soon as
I finish the kitchen remodel :).
We went with the pre-finished 3/4" hardwood and I have no regrets. So
far it is in my office and we'll soon expand it to most of the rest of
the house. It goes in great and the nice things is that once you are
done nailing, you're done. I think this is a great way to go.
One additional drawback though: getting the matching trim bits for the
flooring can be quite expensive. I just ordered some T-moulding and
flush stairnose pieces. A 6 1/2 foot piece of the stairnose ran almost
$60.
walt
Slowhand
>"B a r r y B u r k e J r ." <sez>
> I'll soon be installing 3/4" solid wood floors in my existing home.
> I'm looking for insight on pre finished wood floors vs onsite installation
and finishing > Any thoughts?
My thoughts are I don't like the look of prefinished flooring. It looks
pre-finished to my eye. Most people don't notice it though. When you have
an on site installation including sanding and finishing, they fill gaps
during the sanding process and it just looks better. Pre finished floors
always seem to have gaps. Not big gaps mind you but it is just noticeable.
To make a long story short, to my eye, I can tell the difference between a
prefinished floor to an on site finished floor and I prefer the look of an
on site finished floor. JMHO.
SH
DLGlos
I'm kinda an old house nut, so in most cases, I like the look of
sanded-in-place floor. If done properly, the floor can last 50-100
years, and through several sanding/refinishing phases. It also looks
far more monolithic, and if you have a good installer, cool things
like contrasting edge details, or a greek-key border can readily be
accomplished. Cherry or walnut accents with a maple or white oak floor
look nice.
However, if it was just one room, or a small area, it would be hard to
deny the ease of installation of a pre-finished floor. Some of the
modern factory applied finishes are also far harder, and more scratch
resistant than anything that would realistically be applied in a home
environment. With the slightly beveled edges it just won't have that
old hardwood floor look.
DLGlos
B a r r y B u r k e J r .
<smeier-...@primelink1.net> wrote:
>You missed big one in my book.
>
>Prefinished tends to be maufactured with a microbevel to handle the
>inevitable slight elivation changes between "boards".
I'll have to check this out. I hadn't noticed it on the samples I've
seen. My brother-in-law put down a prefinished bamboo floor and it
looks as though it was finished in place.
Thanks for the tip!
Barry
B a r r y B u r k e J r .
>but doesn't that bevel catch and retain dirt? that's always been my
>concern. also, if you get water or other fluids on the floor, doesn't
>the fact that sealer hasn't had the chance to seal between the boards
>cause issues?
I've seen many finished on-site floors with micro slits between
boards, created by wood movement, so I didn't see that as that big of
a deal.
I gotta' look for the bevel mentioned by another poster, though!
Barry
Mark
engineered oak. The pre-fin was quick, but the problem I had was gaps
where boards met. The micro bevels don't collect any dirt, but it does
look pre-fin to me. I plan on doing more rooms, maybe I'll try raw wood
this time...... Mark
Silvan
> I'm kinda an old house nut, so in most cases, I like the look of
> sanded-in-place floor. If done properly, the floor can last 50-100
> years, and through several sanding/refinishing phases. It also looks
It's kind of funny how floor fashion changes. Nowadays, wood floors are
tremendously expensive when compared to almost everything else, and people
are ripping out boring carpet and replacing it with exciting, expensive
hardwood floors. I hope to do that myself any year now, and I'm so sick of
carpet.
I don't know what carpet used to cost, but based on how many hardwood floors
I've seen buried in '60s puke green shag, I'd guess it used to be the other
way around. People with money could afford to cover up those cold, stark,
nasty hardwood floors with something modern and cozy.
They used to paint them too. I can't imagine why anyone would paint quarter
sawn white oak floors olive green, but I've seen it.
Furniture too, actually. I guess maybe once upon a time, paint was an
exciting thing as well. (And yes, I suppose we already covered that when
discussing what "Japanning" was all about...)
George
crannies to accumulate grime (prefinished typically bevels the edges
slightly) and the wood is thicker so it can be refinished more times. The
only reason I'd go with prefinished is to obtain a finish that either cannot
be done in place or is illegal (like Swedish finish in California) to do in
place.
"B a r r y B u r k e J r ." <Keep_it_in_the_...@aol.com> wrote
in message news:9dhrsv0s5gd2vpf9l...@4ax.com...
George
over junk so you can only refinish once (if that many times). IMHO, once in
place they scream "done by a do-it-yourselfer".
Of course, if you go with raw wood, it makes a big difference in who does
the work, how they do the work, and what materials are chosen. Right now, I
have a 100% crap floor that the builder had installed..it is maple and the
finish doesn't hold up and the floor isn't stable. Before I moved, I had
floors installed by an installer of my choosing using quarter-sawn white oak
and you couldn't ask for a nicer floor...when we moved we'd had it for eight
years and it still looked new whereas this maple floor looked like total
crap after six months (it literally looks like we overhaul engines in the
hallway).
"Charles Spitzer" <charlie...@nospam.stratus.com> wrote in message
news:bql39i$9fg$1...@transfer.stratus.com...
George
upon the layout of your house. Where I think the finish-in-place floors win
hands down is where you have large, well-lit rooms or long
hallways...looking down an expanse of wood flooring looks great with on-site
finishing because the smoothness of the flooring is very noticeable in these
situations.
"todd" <fathe...@NOcomcastSPAM.net> wrote in message
news:zpWdnVPT4Yc...@comcast.com...
George
wear the best. It doesn't meet VOC standards in California (and probably
elsewhere), so the only way to get it (there, anyway) is to buy pre-finished
flooring manufactured elsewhere. If your area allows, it is possible to do
Swedish finish in place.
"DLGlos" <dlg...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:3n6ssvconj7silua6...@4ax.com...
Jerry Gilreath
floors and a warm morning wood stove. In the winter time, the water you took
to bed would freeze. When you would get out of bed in the morning, and your
feet hit that cold ass floor, you didn't waste any time getting socks and
shoes on. Most of the time before you even put pants on. So, when I left
that old farm house and got married, I said right then, no hardwood floors,
and the thermostat on the wall is my friend!!! I know this hasn't got diddly
squat to do with redoing floors, but the puke green shag, the whorehouse red
shag, and all the shag carpet colors just brings back good memories of warm
floors in the morning. And before anyone says anything, no, we didn't walk
to school in 4 feet of snow, up hill, both ways. Just out the half mile lane
we called a driveway to catch the horse drawn school bus. :-)
--
This space for rent.
Jerry© The Phoneman®
"Silvan" <dmmc...@users.sourceforge.net> wrote in message
news:r5d2a1-...@giganator.family.lan...
George
the mess (I assume the SANDING mess is your biggest concern), Bonakemi has a
finishing machine that is supposed to eliminate most of that mess (I guess
it is a floor sander with dust collection) and they have a number of
distributors around the country who have one of these machines. If you want
to check it out (I haven't used it, but am considering it myself) the
website is: http://www.bonakemi.com/
"B a r r y B u r k e J r ." <Keep_it_in_the_...@aol.com> wrote
in message news:9dhrsv0s5gd2vpf9l...@4ax.com...
B a r r y B u r k e J r .
wrote:
>On the other hand, they also tend to be thinner material or have a veneer
>over junk so you can only refinish once (if that many times). IMHO, once in
>place they scream "done by a do-it-yourselfer".
You're thinking of another product.
The prefinished flooring I'm considering is 100% solid 3/4" wood.
This stuff is not a laminate or composition product of any kind.
Barry
B a r r y B u r k e J r .
wrote:
>I almost forgot, since one of your major concerns with on-site finishing is
>the mess (I assume the SANDING mess is your biggest concern),
My main concern was lack of access to parts of the house while the
finish cured, where to put everything, and keeping cats out of the
finish. Sanding is a mess, but no more than some of the other work
I've already done. This is a multi-story house with one stairway and
one way through on each floor.
If this were a new or unoccupied home, I'd choose finished in place
floors in a heartbeat. The floors are going to run from one room into
others, so all of it would need to be finished at once. Prefinished
material would allow me to move furniture from one room to the other
as I lay the planks.
Is my assumption that all adjoining rooms need to be finished at the
same time correct? If not, things change.
Thanks,
Barry
Silvan
> took to bed would freeze. When you would get out of bed in the morning,
> and your feet hit that cold ass floor, you didn't waste any time getting
> socks and shoes on. Most of the time before you even put pants on. So,
I'm chuckling at this... One of my friends growing up lived in such a
house. His parents got rid of the carpet, restored the floors... They had
a coal furnace, but it was drafty as all get out in the place, and it got
cold at night. Those floors were *cold* in the morning.
Probably not as cold as what you remember, but cold enough that I can
understand why people covered them with carpet.
Personally, I think area rugs are a good compromise. See most of the pretty
floor, keep your feet warm, and when the pushsticks leave presents all over
it, you can just get a new one.
> anything, no, we didn't walk to school in 4 feet of snow, up hill, both
> ways. Just out the half mile lane we called a driveway to catch the horse
> drawn school bus. :-)
Up hill, both ways. :)
Actually, I lived in a place like that once. At the bottom of two hills, so
it really was "up hill, both ways" either way I went I had to walk up a
steep hill, and then down one.
I never had to do it barefoot though.
Stephen M
the weekend. It, too was a two-story with one staircase. The bedrooms were
carpeted, but the main trafficway of the house (dinning
room-livingroom-staircase-hall) were to be refinished.
We plasticed off the bedrooms and did all sanding and the first coat of poly
in a day. At night, we retired to bedrooms via ladders and windows :-) In
the morning, we could walk on the floors in socks.
We did the whole thing in a 3-day weekend.
Get some buddies and ship out the family for a few days.
"B a r r y B u r k e J r ." <Keep_it_in_the_...@aol.com> wrote
in message news:rp5usvok35tqgpala...@4ax.com...
rob
room. I would have to say that yes, the pre-fin is very nice to
install, and yes, it looks pre-finished. Not a bad thing, but
definitely site-finished has the smooth appeal to it. Not all pre-fin
floors have the micro-bevel, but mine does. As far as refinishing
goes, the floor is just as thick (3/4 solid maple), so it should be
able to be refinished just as many times. I would assume after
refinishing some day, I will have the same look as the site-finished
floor.
I've heard that the pre-fin floors are supposed to have a more
durable finish, but I have found the opposite on my floor. The finish
is actually quite easy to scratch, and I already have a couple
scratches. As opposed to my oak floor which we beat the hell out of
and it still looks pretty good. Maybe I just got flooring with cheap
finish.
All in all, I am happy with it. Its hard to say whether it looks
'DIYer-like' or not, but either way, it looks 3 times better than
carpeting! Also, I installed in on a 45-degree angle, so that gives it
a really catchy look.
-Rob
B a r r y B u r k e J r . <Keep_it_in_the_...@aol.com> wrote in message news:<9dhrsv0s5gd2vpf9l...@4ax.com>...
Franklyn
> Pros - Flawless factory applied finish, no mess, no denied
> access to area while finish dries.
> Cons - More expensive floor material (but nearly the same
> total cost), less selection of colors and woods.
>
> Raw wood:
> Pros - Cheaper flooring material, more color and wood
> selections, finish material may seal between boards better.
> Cons - Sanding and finishing effort and mess, finish smell,
> denied access to area while finish cures, possible finish flaws due to
> dust, etc...
This is my first try at posting. I've been in the wood flooring
business for over 30 years. I now teach wood floors. Here are some
additional considerations.
Prefinished:
Pros-you don't have to move all the furniture out. Just move all
the furniture to one side of the room, install up to it, move the
furniture onto the installed flooring and keep on installing. This is
really a consideration if you have large furniture like pianos,
hutches or china cabinets.
If you keep some of the flooring left over at the end of the job
you can replace a board without worrying about the color, sheen, or
height matching. These are problems with on site finished wood.
Cons- More careful with installing. Drop a hammer or nailer and
you have a damaged floor. This means the installation process is
slower. You also need to inspect each piece before installing it.
Hint: fold the boxes flat to protect the floor as you work on it.
Raw wood:
Pros- You can do inlays, borders, and be much more creative with
unfinished wood. See http://woodfloorist.com/1/borders2.html and
http://woodfloorist.com/1/goldfish.html for some ideas. Faster to
install as you can fix minor damage in the finishing process.
Cons- Time is the major problem here. What do you do with the
family while you are refinishing? When McDonald's knows you by your
first name you know you have been eating out too much during the
process. I have done jobs where access is a problem and I have
finished six boards, skipped six boards, done six boards so you can
hopscotch to the bedrooms but it can make the process longer.
Franklyn,
Leon
finish is not always perfect.
Leon
"Franklyn" <Fran...@WoodFloorist.com> wrote in message
news:b417c24f.0312...@posting.google.com...
>
> This is my first try at posting. I've been in the wood flooring
> business for over 30 years. I now teach wood floors.
For your first post you did well Franklyn, nice and informative.. I gotta
ask though, ;~) are wood floors fast learners? ;~) Sorry I could not
resist.
B a r r y B u r k e J r .
that I had not thought of were brought up.
Thanks again!
Barry
Jay Pique
wrote:
> Pros- You can do inlays, borders, and be much more creative with
>unfinished wood. See http://woodfloorist.com/1/borders2.html and
>http://woodfloorist.com/1/goldfish.html for some ideas. Faster to
>install as you can fix minor damage in the finishing process.
Wow - that's nice work Franklyn. Do people typically do both
installation as well as finishing, or is it more common to specialize
in one area or another? I would guess, given the level of detail on
the above pics, that you probably do both!
JP
Franklyn
> ask though, ;~) are wood floors fast learners? ;~) Sorry I could not
> resist.
Leon,
At first they are stiff and often uncooperative but after a few
wacks with my nailing mallet they learn really fast who's the boss and
straighten out. ?:)
Franklyn,
Franklyn
> >unfinished wood. See http://woodfloorist.com/1/borders2.html and
> >http://woodfloorist.com/1/goldfish.html for some ideas. Faster to
> >install as you can fix minor damage in the finishing process.
>
> Wow - that's nice work Franklyn. Do people typically do both
> installation as well as finishing, or is it more common to specialize
> in one area or another? I would guess, given the level of detail on
> the above pics, that you probably do both!
>
> JP
Jay,
I do both equally well. I learned the trade on gym floors in
upstate NY. I literally have acres of experience.
Many contractors only know how to install prefinished. Home Depot
and Lowe's for example, only will install pre-finished hardwood. (Go
ahead and ask them if they install unfinished hardwood) They both sell
unfinished but won't install it because they don't allow their
installers to sand and finish. That means they can't finish the job.
I think it's a liability issue for them that they don't want to get
into. Personally I think that's it's a smart move on their part both
legally and profit-wise. Why sell the wood and give the money for
refinishing to the installer when you can sell the finishing along
with the product in the prefinished wood?
On the other hand there are companies that only sand and refinish
existing floors. They specialise in remodeling older homes and rarely
see a new floor. This cuts the tools they need in half as they don't
need all the installation tools.
There are companies that have specialty crews. One crew just
installs. The sanding crew follows them and they move onto the next
house to install. A finishing crew follows the sanding crew. When I
first started I was on an installing crew and never saw a sander or
the finished product. This is a common arrangement when you are
working on tract built homes.
Then there are companies where the flooring mechanics can do it
all. I find this the best as you never get bored.
I have started doing it my own way. I find people who want
install, sand and/or refinish their own wood floors. They want a
little professional guidance but want to learn a little by
participating too. I like this arrangement because I get to see the
work thru the eyes of someone who has never done it before. They
save some money and have a better appreciation for the completed
project. The teacher/temporary apprentice relationship is a lot
different than the contractor/customer relationship.
Of course I get into inlays, borders and fancy floors and I teach
newbies how to do it all. I also specialise in talking too much.
People get the idea real fast that I enjoy what I do. I hope this
isn't too long a post.
Franklyn
http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&lr=lang_fr&ie=UTF-8&q=+site:woodfloorist.com+wood+floors
Franklyn
> Many prefinished floors have a terrific warranty on the finish... But, the
> finish is not always perfect.
This is where you need to read the instructions. Every prefinished
floor that I have ever installed has a " The installer is the final
inspector and is responsible for inspecting the wood before installing
it" .
This used to really irritate me. Here some Union carpenter in some
factory is not only taking the refinishing part of the work away from
me but I have to be responsible if he messes up. I'm over it now.
Franklyn,
Renata
Very informative post - thanx for all the info.
Renata
On 5 Dec 2003 01:01:26 -0800, Fran...@WoodFloorist.com (Franklyn)
wrote:
>This is my first try at posting. I've been in the wood flooring
>business for over 30 years. I now teach wood floors. Here are some
>additional considerations.
>
--snip--
>
>Franklyn,
>
>http://woodfloorist.com
smart, not dumb for email
Leon
"Franklyn" <Fran...@WoodFloorist.com> wrote in message
> "Leon" <removespa...@swbell.net> wrote in message
news:<180Ab.451$QZ.245...@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com>...
> > Many prefinished floors have a terrific warranty on the finish... But,
the
> > finish is not always perfect.
>
> This is where you need to read the instructions. Every prefinished
> floor that I have ever installed has a " The installer is the final
> inspector and is responsible for inspecting the wood before installing
> it" .
Yeah... I read the same thing on some engineered maple flooring that I was
putting down a couple of years ago. I figured that it meant there might be
a possible finish problem. With 6 boxes of flooring for a small bathroom, I
ran across 2 pieces that actually had some bare wood exposed. I wondered
why the wood did not shine in that spot. It was a shame that I did not have
enough problem pieces to make up a box that I could return..