Ping Domino guys

[Gramp's shop]

Thinking about a retirement gift from me to me. Any feedback on this unit?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/150984502400?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649

Anything missing?

Larry

[Leon]

I would find out exactly which cutters come with the deal and what shape
the are in. You want to make sure of what you are getting. The cutters
do last a very long time. I use the standard 5mm bit the most and have cut
in excess of 5,000 mortises with that bit alone. The unit has indexing
built in however I use mine more like a plate joiner then any other way. I
have all but quit using pocket hole construction given this superior method
of putting together a joint. I would not thin twice about replacing it
should that need come up.

Looks like everything is there except the Festool dust extractor. :-). You
will need some type of dust extraction to clear out the mortises that it
cuts.

[Ed Pawlowski]

On Thu, 24 Jan 2013 17:57:15 -0800 (PST), "Gramp's shop"
<lawrence....@gmail.com> wrote:

>Thinking about a retirement gift from me to me. Any feedback on this unit?
>

Oh, I saw the subject line and thought you wanted to order a pizza.

[joelj...@aol.com]

> Thinking about a retirement gift from me to me. Any feedback on this unit?

If, as he says, that he used the machine for only one project (and is
wasn't abused), then that's a good deal. Since I've gotten my Domino -
I've rarely used anything but floating tenons. I'll swear by it ....

> Anything missing?

I see he doesn't list the 6 mm cutter, and that's a part that I've
found necessary. Also I've occasionally used 4 mm Dominoes. They will
come in handy.

[Dave]

On Thu, 24 Jan 2013 21:18:02 -0800 (PST), "joelj...@aol.com"

>I see he doesn't list the 6 mm cutter, and that's a part that I've
>found necessary. Also I've occasionally used 4 mm Dominoes. They will
>come in handy.

Yes, that concerns me a bit and suggests that he's bought the bits and
the Dominos separately from the kit. Or else, he's broken/lost/chipped
those two missing bits.

Also, I couldn't tell from the picture if it was the older pin model
or the newer paddle model of Domino.

Initially, it's cheaper in the beginning to buy the systainer set of
Dominos which also includes a full bit set of Domino cutter sizes 4mm,
5mm, 6mm, 8mm, 10mm.

http://www.leevalley.com/en/Festool/page.aspx?p=67968&cat=5,105,68330

[John Grossbohlin]

>"Ed Pawlowski" wrote in message
>news:rc14g8h0nvchtfhqd...@4ax.com...

There is an 's on the end of that one... one of those context things
that can get you into trouble in some cases, like beaver, head, hug...

[rlz]

On Jan 25, 7:15 am, "John Grossbohlin"

I haven't seen this tool before, so I google'd it and it looks
impressive. If I understand it correctly, its basically a high-end
biscuit-type plug joiner. What I don't get is why is the dust
extractor such an expensive option. Does it blow air into the mortise
and then vacuums it out as well?

[joelj...@aol.com]

> Thinking about a retirement gift from me to me. Any feedback on this unit?
>

> http://www.ebay.com/itm/150984502400?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid...


I see that the bidding is pretty active — and there's a bit less than
4 days left ....

Let us know if you won the auction.

Also, there's a lot of available on-line tutorials, videos, and other
information on using the Domino to its full potential.

[Dave]

On Fri, 25 Jan 2013 09:22:57 -0800 (PST), rlz <ro...@ellzey.net>

>I haven't seen this tool before, so I google'd it and it looks
>impressive. If I understand it correctly, its basically a high-end
>biscuit-type plug joiner. What I don't get is why is the dust
>extractor such an expensive option. Does it blow air into the mortise
>and then vacuums it out as well?

If you're asking about the dust collector, it's as high end as the
Domino tool itself. Much quieter that your regular screaming beast,
very effective dust collection, tool activated power on function, very
effective dust filtering.

Naturally, there are others will forgo the cost for a $98 two hundred
decibel animal. All I can suggest is to try on of the Festool dust
collectors on their thirty day return guarantee program and then
decide.

Also, Festool offers a package reduction price if you buy the Domino
and the dust collector at the same time.

ONE OTHER THING ~ The Domino puts ANY biscuit joiner to shame and
COMPLETELY replaces the need for a biscuit joiner. Some might disagree
with that statement, but I'm not one of them.

[Unquestionably Confused]

On 1/26/2013 7:58 AM, Dave wrote:
>
> ONE OTHER THING ~ The Domino puts ANY biscuit joiner to shame and
> COMPLETELY replaces the need for a biscuit joiner. Some might disagree
> with that statement, but I'm not one of them.

Yeahbut... Will it undercut door jambs on your next reflooring job?<g>

[Swingman]

On 1/26/2013 7:58 AM, Dave wrote:

> ONE OTHER THING ~ The Domino puts ANY biscuit joiner to shame and
> COMPLETELY replaces the need for a biscuit joiner. Some might disagree
> with that statement, but I'm not one of them.

And doing many things a biscuit jointer can't do. I don't own a Domino,
but I'd have to agree, seeing the many uses Leon comes up for his.

Hell, if we took away Leon's SketchUp and Domino he'd have to get a job
on a cable DIY show. ;)

--
eWoodShop: www.eWoodShop.com
Wood Shop: www.e-WoodShop.net
https://plus.google.com/114902129577517371552/posts
http://www.custommade.com/by/ewoodshop/
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)

[Lew Hodgett]

"Unquestionably Confused" wrote:

>
> Yeahbut... Will it undercut door jambs on your next reflooring
> job?<g>

------------------------------------------------
That's why Fein exists.

Lew

[Unquestionably Confused]

Ah, so many ways to skin the cat. Have used the Bosch multi-tool as
well. Didn't have it when I started the project and first used the
PC-557 to undercut some jambs. Multi-tool will do it but not as quickly
and cleanly as the 557.

Multi-tool? Gotta be one of my best tool buys in years. Find myself
using it all the time. Got the 12v cordless one.

[-MIKE-]

And by the time you guys have found those power tools, unwrapped the
cord, put on the proper blade, etc., I've already undercut the jamb with
my Japanese pull saw and didn't even scare the cat. :-)


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
mi...@mikedrumsDOT.com
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

[Dave]

On Sat, 26 Jan 2013 09:29:22 -0600, Unquestionably Confused

>Ah, so many ways to skin the cat. Have used the Bosch multi-tool as
>well. Didn't have it when I started the project and first used the
>PC-557 to undercut some jambs. Multi-tool will do it but not as quickly
>and cleanly as the 557.

There's something more important to consider when comparing any
biscuit joiner to a Domino. The Domino is used primarily for joining
*and* alignment fully in both those categories. The biscuit joiner is
more geared to alignment IMO and not nearly as suited for joining
strength.

[WW]

"-MIKE-" wrote in message news:ke0vdg$vhm$1...@speranza.aioe.org...

On 1/26/13 9:29 AM, Unquestionably Confused wrote:
> On 1/26/2013 8:42 AM, Lew Hodgett wrote:
>> "Unquestionably Confused" wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Yeahbut... Will it undercut door jambs on your next reflooring
>>> job?<g>
>> ------------------------------------------------
>> That's why Fein exists.
>
> Ah, so many ways to skin the cat. Have used the Bosch multi-tool as
> well. Didn't have it when I started the project and first used the
> PC-557 to undercut some jambs. Multi-tool will do it but not as quickly
> and cleanly as the 557.
>
> Multi-tool? Gotta be one of my best tool buys in years. Find myself
> using it all the time. Got the 12v cordless one.
>

And by the time you guys have found those power tools, unwrapped the
cord, put on the proper blade, etc., I've already undercut the jamb with
my Japanese pull saw and didn't even scare the cat. :-)

Great idea. I never thought of that for a pull saw. WW


--

[Dave]

On Sat, 26 Jan 2013 09:52:04 -0700, "WW" <cc...@nospambresnan.net>

>my Japanese pull saw and didn't even scare the cat. :-)
>>Great idea. I never thought of that for a pull saw. WW

Yabbut, what fun is that? Scaring the cat always makes me laugh. Was
clipping a fingernail a little while back. Out of the corner of my
eye, I see a piece of clipped fingernail hit my cat in the nose.

She did a double reverse back flip and disappeared for the next ten
minutes. I laughed so hard it hurt.

[russell...@yahoo.com]

On Saturday, January 26, 2013 7:58:26 AM UTC-6, Upscale wrote:
> On Fri, 25 Jan 2013 09:22:57 -0800 (PST), rlz <ro...@ellzey.net> >I haven't seen this tool before, so I google'd it and it looks >impressive. If I understand it correctly, its basically a high-end >biscuit-type plug joiner. What I don't get is why is the dust >extractor such an expensive option. Does it blow air into the mortise >and then vacuums it out as well? If you're asking about the dust collector, it's as high end as the Domino tool itself. Much quieter that your regular screaming beast, very effective dust collection, tool activated power on function, very effective dust filtering. Naturally, there are others will forgo the cost for a $98 two hundred decibel animal. All I can suggest is to try on of the Festool dust collectors on their thirty day return guarantee program and then decide. Also, Festool offers a package reduction price if you buy the Domino and the dust collector at the same time

ONE OTHER THING ~ The Domino puts ANY biscuit joiner to shame and COMPLETELY replaces the need for a biscuit joiner. Some might disagree with that statement, but I'm not one of them.

I'd argue with the above statement. The plate joiner is very good at aligning and edge gluing boards and plywood. Making a door panel, cabinet side, use the plate joiner. Aligns and adds a little strength. Extra strength not needed since its edge gluing, which are strong enough with nothing extra. Domino probably does a fine job too. If you use one of the wide hole widths you can not worry about exactly where you put the holes. But the plate joiner is quicker, lighter, easier to use. Its main purpose is to edge join boards.

[Leon]

If will do that as well as a plate joiner.

[Leon]

On 1/26/2013 8:29 AM, Swingman wrote:
> On 1/26/2013 7:58 AM, Dave wrote:
>
>> ONE OTHER THING ~ The Domino puts ANY biscuit joiner to shame and
>> COMPLETELY replaces the need for a biscuit joiner. Some might disagree
>> with that statement, but I'm not one of them.
>
> And doing many things a biscuit jointer can't do. I don't own a Domino,
> but I'd have to agree, seeing the many uses Leon comes up for his.
>
> Hell, if we took away Leon's SketchUp and Domino he'd have to get a job
> on a cable DIY show. ;)
>

Take those away and I would explode.

[Leon]

By your statements above you have probably not used a Domino. The plate
jointer makes a curved single thickness slot. The domino makes multiple
thickness slots and every bit as effective in alignment as a plate
joiner where a plate joiner is adequate. Any thing beyoned that the
Domino is by far superior. The plate joiner is absolutely no faster
than a domino and set up is absolutely not easier and for all practical
purposes they both are in the same weight range for the same style plate
joiner.


So use a plate joiner when "good enough" is good enough. If you want
better up. down. and side to side alignment, and much more strength, go
with the Domino.

Your few examples you listed are about are about all the plate joiner is
decent for with one more exception, it makes a good slot for a lock
lever to rotate into. With the Domino what you have listed above is
only the beginning of what a Domino is good for.

[Dave]

On Sat, 26 Jan 2013 12:58:20 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>

>Your few examples you listed are about are about all the plate joiner is
>decent for with one more exception, it makes a good slot for a lock
>lever to rotate into. With the Domino what you have listed above is
>only the beginning of what a Domino is good for.

Thanks for the support. I'll get that $20 mailed to you right away. :)

[-MIKE-]

On 1/26/13 12:35 PM, russell...@yahoo.com wrote:
> ONE OTHER THING ~ The Domino puts ANY biscuit joiner to shame and
> COMPLETELY replaces the need for a biscuit joiner. Some might
> disagree with that statement, but I'm not one of them.
>
> I'd argue with the above statement. The plate joiner is very good at
> aligning and edge gluing boards and plywood. Making a door panel,
> cabinet side, use the plate joiner. Aligns and adds a little
> strength. Extra strength not needed since its edge gluing, which are
> strong enough with nothing extra. Domino probably does a fine job
> too. If you use one of the wide hole widths you can not worry about
> exactly where you put the holes. But the plate joiner is quicker,
> lighter, easier to use. Its main purpose is to edge join boards.
>

Shortly before I got rid of my plate joiner, I was having trouble
getting it to "align" edge joined boards, as it seemed the fit of the
biscuit in the slot was too loose. I could align the board as well by
hand as with the biscuit. I was, in fact, using the proper biscuit and
bit combination. I tried a different brand biscuit, but they were all
the same.

I called the company to ask some questions about this. The tech support
guy said the biscuits were compressed and purposely undersized so they
would swell when dampened by the glue and make a tight joint. However,
this would never happen before the glue set and hand alignment was still
necessary.

So, to this day, I fail to see how biscuits help with alignment of edge
joined boards, if I still have to "fine tune" the alignment by
hand/clamp/cauls.

[Leon]

I had the same problems, with a 556 PC and 557 PC plate joiner, using
PC, Freud, and who know what brand biscuits. Often the biscuit would
have to be hammered in if I were to use it and not toss it. Other times
it and the trim it was aligning would fall out of the slot if turned
upside down before clamping. Slightly better than finish nails
providing you did not want to hide nail holes.

[Swingman]

My experience ... During a glue-up, when TIME is of the essence, either
panel or frame, you're looking for biscuits to get you into the alignment
ballpark, both vertically as well as horizontally, much much faster with,
than without ... NOT do all your work for you. :)

Also much much faster to get the clamps on a 45 degree joinery frame
glue-up with biscuits, than without.

If you want accuracy, or strength and accuracy, use a Domino ... if you're
pushed for time on a glue-up, biscuits can save your bacon without a lot of
slipping around and futzing with basic juxtaposition, AND give you some
degree of strength. (Sure, you can stop the slipping around during
alignment with clipped off brads, but they're nearly as effective, overall,
as biscuits)

YMMV ... But I like'm and use them often.

--
www.ewoodshop.com (Mobile)

[Lew Hodgett]

"Unquestionably Confused" wrote:

> Have used the Bosch multi-tool as well.

-----------------------------------
Bosch is nice but it's no Fein, IMHO.

Lew

[Lew Hodgett]

"-MIKE-" wrote:
>
> And by the time you guys have found those power tools, unwrapped the
> cord, put on the proper blade, etc., I've already undercut the jamb
> with
> my Japanese pull saw and didn't even scare the cat. :-)

-----------------------------------------------
Try to sand out an inside corner with that Japanese pull saw.

Lew

[-MIKE-]

That's kind of the impression I was left with.
In my mind, I was thinking they did a lot more than they actually did.
In reality, they didn't do enough for me. They are times when I want to
use them again, like for this bookcase project, but that when I'll reach
for my doweling clamp and drill for dowels. It may take a bit longer,
but I get more accurate alignment and some strength.

[-MIKE-]

You can sand inside corners with a Domino!? I'm impressed. :-p

[Swingman]

On 1/26/2013 3:02 PM, -MIKE- wrote:

> That's kind of the impression I was left with.
> In my mind, I was thinking they did a lot more than they actually did.
> In reality, they didn't do enough for me. They are times when I want to
> use them again, like for this bookcase project, but that when I'll reach
> for my doweling clamp and drill for dowels. It may take a bit longer,
> but I get more accurate alignment and some strength.

I'm kinda surprised with the work you've been doing lately that you
don't have a Domino.

I would love to have the 700, but I can't really justify the expense as
long as I have the Multi-Router also ... and it is actually much more
versatile, if much less convenient than a Domino. If the Domino's was
about half the price to get fully into the game that they are (that
damned systainer, with extra bits and full complement of dominoes ...
ouch!), I wouldn't hesitate ... and I already own a CT22E Dust Extractor.

That said, I'm working up a bid on another chair job as we speak, so
that just might change.

[Swingman]

On 1/26/2013 3:04 PM, -MIKE- wrote:

> You can sand inside corners with a Domino!? I'm impressed. :-p

I was thinking it, but ...

Nice to have a real belly laugh on occasion ... thanks! :)

[-MIKE-]

On 1/26/13 3:42 PM, Swingman wrote:
> On 1/26/2013 3:02 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
>
>> That's kind of the impression I was left with.
>> In my mind, I was thinking they did a lot more than they actually did.
>> In reality, they didn't do enough for me. They are times when I want to
>> use them again, like for this bookcase project, but that when I'll reach
>> for my doweling clamp and drill for dowels. It may take a bit longer,
>> but I get more accurate alignment and some strength.
>
> I'm kinda surprised with the work you've been doing lately that you
> don't have a Domino.
>

Hang on.... my wife's right upstairs, say that louder so she can hear
it! :-)
We're thinking about a kitchen remodel and if we pull the trigger, I'll
be Festooling up, including a Domino. She really likes the "Z-chairs"
that they make to show the strength of the Domino joint. So, I'll be
making some of those, too.

Of course, I don't know when I'll have time with all these high profile
gigs of mine... <snort!>. :-)

> I would love to have the 700, but I can't really justify the expense as
> long as I have the Multi-Router also ... and it is actually much more
> versatile, if much less convenient than a Domino. If the Domino's was
> about half the price to get fully into the game that they are (that
> damned systainer, with extra bits and full complement of dominoes ...
> ouch!), I wouldn't hesitate ... and I already own a CT22E Dust Extractor.
>
> That said, I'm working up a bid on another chair job as we speak, so
> that just might change.
>

Right on!

[Lew Hodgett]

"-MIKE-" wrote:
>
> You can sand inside corners with a Domino!? I'm impressed. :-p

---------------------------------------
You buy them books and they eat the covers, whatcha gonna do?

Lew

[Gramp's shop]

From the OP:

I got a lot out of this thread, friends, and am getting a major itch for a Domino in my shop. The eBay unit that sparked my current interest is now up to $710 with two days to go. By the time this closes, I expect the price to be within a hair of retail for a new unit. I'm willing to invest $600 or so ... but will have to figure out a project for which a Domino will be "indispensible" in order to justify $900 plus.

Larry

[Lee Michaels]

Swingman wrote:
>>
>> That said, I'm working up a bid on another chair job as we speak, so
>> that just might change.
>>

There ya go, age old technique. Get a job that the client ends up buying
you the tool.

I remember years ago, for a number of years where almost all new tools were
bought by clients. I had a line that went something like this. "Well, I
would love to make that for you. I would charge this much for labor plus
cost of materials. And I need a special tool to complete this particular
project."

It worked most of the time.

[Dave]

On Sat, 26 Jan 2013 15:42:22 -0600, Swingman <k...@nospam.com> wrote:
>That said, I'm working up a bid on another chair job as we speak, so
>that just might change.

You know you want one. You know you're going to buy one. You just need
to find the proper mind button to push you into paying for one.

I understand completely.

[Gramp's shop]

Final report: This unit sold for $926. That's more than retail, although this one included some extra cutters and dominos. Wow.

[Leon]

For about 20% more you get an assortment of five different sized tenons,
more than 1,000, 5 extra cutters, a systainer for the tenons, a new Domino
and a 3 year warranty.

[Larry Jaques]

On Tue, 29 Jan 2013 17:26:15 -0800 (PST), "Gramp's shop"
<lawrence....@gmail.com> wrote:

>Final report: This unit sold for $926. That's more than retail, although this one included some extra cutters and dominos. Wow.

<heh heh heh> I refer you to the infamous P.T. Barnum quote.

--
All I want is a warm bed,
a kind word, and
U N L I M I T E D P O W E R !
--anon