Hookipa
florian
Enforcing a very dubious 10-man rule, which makes windsurfing illegal at
all of Hookipa beach park when a certain number of surfers are in the
water, DNLR officials ticket two windsurfers and confiscate equipment.
A sad day, indeed.
http://mauisurfreport.blogspot.com/2007/10/saddest-day-at-hookipa.html
--
florian - NY22
Srkijaner
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BQor-qwbhyU
>
> Enforcing a very dubious 10-man rule, which makes windsurfing illegal at
> all of Hookipa beach park when a certain number of surfers are in the
> water, DNLR officials ticket two windsurfers and confiscate equipment.
>
> A sad day, indeed.
>
> http://mauisurfreport.blogspot.com/2007/10/saddest-day-at-hookipa.html
>
>
John I
Looks like the obvious solution past any sort of discussion is to
launch from a downwind spot, work your way upwind to it then fade
away. No distinctive markings on display mind you... Cops are not
likely to ticket as much that way. Might come after you on a PWC?
Also, one's defense would be, how could I have known? I sailed from
my vacation beach. I saw no signs or notices...
Of all the places in the world where windsurfing shouldn't be treated
as a fringe sport. What ever happened to a gov't that's supposed to
protect the minority interest? Back to preconstitution mob rule are
we? Scratch off another vacation destination. Looks like we'll all
have to buy a beachfront somewhere else in the world and do a time
share scheme? Cape Verde, anyone?
florian
Not really. It's more about clout. Some people think they have certain
rights and privileges and do not want others to share it.
Hookipa has three breaks: Pavillions, Middles and the one in front of
the bluff (no idea what it's actually called - the only one that is
actually sailed on a trade wind day).
When the wind is up, the windsurfing break is blown-out. There's simply
no reason for the rule except power games, localism and animosity.
Surfing may be an amazing sport but it obviously fails to give some
happiness and turns many into a bitter, envious people. Time to quit,
IMHO - not to ruin it for others.
John I
One more thing. Has the windsurfing community counted the dollars that
it represents to the island? In particular, the north shore part? If
we threaten to pull up stakes and move to another isolated windy venue
in the world, what amount of dollars will the local community lose?
Socio-economically, aren't windsurfers a little higher up on the
pecking order? There may not be as many squeaky wheels, but $$$larger
ones perhaps? It may come down to political mechanics if the dollars
can't sway mayors and the like...
Dan Weiss
Florian, not sure if you are referring to the break called Lanes or
whether you mean H'poko that I think is the same as what you refer to
as Middles. Lanes is west of the rock pile.
-Dan
Dan Weiss
Florian: Sorry, I now realize I was wrong in first reply. The breaks
go from east to west: Pavillions, Middles, H'Poko, then Lanes. HP is
almost directly in front of the beach, I'm pretty sure.
-Dan
shredulato
1st vacation rrentals on the chopping block,..... well they are
basically chopped and will remain so unless the multimillion dollar
lawsuit scares the country of maui,
and now this .....a good statement and kinda echo my sentiments"
just because you paranoid it doesnt mean people arent after you"
the 10 man rule just isnt current enough, they need to rethink
this..
localism and xenopohobia is on the rise...i have seen it, i dont
blame people for feeling this way, but i am not sure who has the right
to feel this way. I have met some damn nice people there and some
nasty "haole callers" that seemed to be as white as me' (and i am
damn white)
(PeteCresswell)
> I have met some damn nice people there and some
>nasty "haole callers" that seemed to be as white as me' (and i am
>damn white)
When I lived on Oahu, I saw a recurrent phenomenon: the guy who
moved there three years ago, and suddenly couldn't stand
tourists. My brother noticed the same thing in on St Croix.
Locals: separate case. They even have a dedicated term:
"Haole-Hater".
Worked with one for a year or so at Honoruru International. Not
a bad guy - but he just thought that mainlanders were responsible
for much of what wasn't right in his life.
--
PeteCresswell
trnsprt
industry as a whole has too much to lose. Maui can't afford to let
the windsurfing industry, as small as it is, start looking for another
spot for photos, R&D, etc.... The pro's need Hookipa too! That is a
lot of force to bear. A change is inevitable I hope.
Funny Josh mentions Montana first in the YouTube video. What did we
Montanan's ever do to him? ;-)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BQor-qwbhyU
TM
bsinclair
> reason for the rule except power games, localism and animosity
Right, but this is an "if and only if" statement.
If, on the other hand, the day is surfable and you ignore the time honored
compromise for sharing a spot, then you are clearly in the wrong.
Reading between the lines of the blog and watching the video, I can't really
tell who was in the wrong here. My gut feeling is the sailors were out of
line.
You have to look at it from the other guys perspective. There are a whole
lot more surfers than sailors. There are very few good breaks on Maui, and
good days at this break are rare. Sailors have a huge advantage over
surfers in catching waves. I can surf with 50 guys and catch waves.
Surfing with a half a dozen sailor is a waste of time. I won't catch
anything worth riding.
bs
"florian" <florian...@funnygarbage.com> wrote in message
news:5o1jgaF...@mid.individual.net...
bsinclair
> Socio-economically, aren't windsurfers a little higher up on the
They don't care how much we make, just how much we spend and where.
I'm potentially an extreme example. Assuming the superferry ever comes on
line, I could load up my boards, drive on, drive off, sail, then crash on
the floor of a friend's house or maybe rent a sail-out place that does not
collect room tax. Maybe I make a Costco run, but that's about it. And the
county gets...not much.
John Q middle-America comes for his vacation. He rents a car (rental car
tax), stays in a hotel (room tax), eats all his meals at restaurants, and
spends big bucks on helicopter rides, whale watching and a few rounds of
golf. And, the best part for the locals, John Q stays at resort sequestered
away from the rest of the population. He does not snake many waves.
And there will be close to 3 million of these guys visiting Maui this year.
If we want to keep on playing, we need to respect the existing rules and
respect the people who are sharing their island with us. Where else are we
going to go?
bs
"John I" <ingebr...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:1193047318....@q5g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
Tsunami
"bsinclair" <x...@hawaii.rr.com> wrote in message
news:471d2ea1$0$25704$4c36...@roadrunner.com...
> > When the wind is up, the windsurfing break is blown-out. There's simply
no
> > reason for the rule except power games, localism and animosity
>
> Right, but this is an "if and only if" statement.
> If, on the other hand, the day is surfable and you ignore the time honored
> compromise for sharing a spot, then you are clearly in the wrong.
>
> Reading between the lines of the blog and watching the video, I can't
really
> tell who was in the wrong here. My gut feeling is the sailors were out of
> line.
>
> You have to look at it from the other guys perspective. There are a whole
> lot more surfers than sailors. There are very few good breaks on Maui,
and
> good days at this break are rare. Sailors have a huge advantage over
> surfers in catching waves. I can surf with 50 guys and catch waves.
> Surfing with a half a dozen sailor is a waste of time. I won't catch
> anything worth riding.
>
> bs
Yeah but hang on. I have neve rbeen to Maui but I sail DTL breaks in Western
Australia that are as good or better.
Now, corretc me if I'm wrong but a ssoon as it is windy enough to sail, even
wheen cross off, the wave face gets chopped up enough that it is really not
worth surfing?? At the good place shere, it will be full of surfrs until
midday, then all afternoon is full of WS'ers. Does it actaully blow all
day at Ho'okipa and surfers really wanna go out all day?
If so make it surfers 0600-1200 and sailors 1200 onwards.
here the kite vs windsurf is the bigger issue
florian
> If, on the other hand, the day is surfable and you ignore the time honored
> compromise for sharing a spot, then you are clearly in the wrong.
>
> Reading between the lines of the blog and watching the video, I can't really
> tell who was in the wrong here. My gut feeling is the sailors were out of
> line.
>
> You have to look at it from the other guys perspective. There are a whole
> lot more surfers than sailors. There are very few good breaks on Maui, and
> good days at this break are rare. Sailors have a huge advantage over
> surfers in catching waves. I can surf with 50 guys and catch waves.
> Surfing with a half a dozen sailor is a waste of time. I won't catch
> anything worth riding.
>
> bs
There are two sides to it - I agree. However the "time honoured rule"
which was obviously written by and for surfers without the sailors
having a say, effectively closes the entire spot to sailors whenever
more than 9 surfers decide to shut them down, period; regardless of the
conditions.
The rule is violating basic principles by which society functions. If
there's more than a certain number of "us", "you" will have to leave.
This is fundamentally wrong, and anyone would agree if you applied that
to other situations in society.
If safety considerations are indeed a factor, why not put a wind meter
on the bluff and declare zone C windsurfing only upwards of 15 knots
(keep in mind that A and B are still the favoured surfing breaks in
windy conditions)?
Regarding the economics of the situation:
Surfing is a huge industry; windsurfing has a fraction of its economical
power. Granted, the most money in the surfing world is made by selling
shades, sneakers and life style products, not equipment. Surfers are on
average less affluent than sailors, but I would never go there in an
argument (see Josh Stone's comments in the Youtube Vid - and you know h
must be royally pissed off to even have that argument).
Your situation is a bit special, bs - but the majority of windsurfing
tourists drop a bunch of money on the island. Between rental cars, WS
rentals, and sccommodations, that's at least $200 - $300 per day/sailor.
(I don't even want to get out my calculator and figure out how much that
one day at Ho'okipa cost me, when I was there in April 06!)
The local economy in Paia and Kanaha does benefit greatly from
windsurfing tourists and I believe the local businesses should be the
first to challenge the rules, IMHO.
wee...@aol.com
It's time for someone in the windsurf industry to get involved in
county government on Maui. I haven't been out there in a few years and
I may be wrong, but I have a gut feeling there's tension building due
to the fact that a lot of well-off windsurfers and other people are
buying up the land making it unfordable to the locals.
bsinclair
> tourists drop a bunch of money on the island. Between rental cars, WS
> rentals, and sccommodations, that's at least $200 - $300 per day/sailor.
Right, but the biggest chunk of that daily fee is accommodations. If we are
staying in illegal short term rental units, the money goes to an investor
who may not be in state. Room tax is not collected, and the county gets
zip, except maybe a bigger chunk of property tax from inflated land value.
The county wants their room tax. They crack down on illegal rentals and come
up with a plan to promote legitimate operations. Instead of supporting
them, we scream foul/lawsuit. This makes us look like a bunch of arrogant
jerks who think we are above the law.
Ignoring the existing rules for sharing a spot does pretty much the same
thing. If the rule is unfair, we need to work on changing the rule.
Ignoring the rules makes us look bad. If we loose this PR battle, we could
loose access to the whole launch.
Tourism is big business on Maui. Windsurfing is a tiny piece of that pie.
We need Maui a lot more than Maui needs us.
bs
"florian" <florian...@funnygarbage.com> wrote in message
news:5o6budF...@mid.individual.net...
Dan Weiss
>
> - Show quoted text -
Tsunami: The organic compromise between windsurfers and board surfers
seems not to work in recent weeks -at least from what I can glean from
the Web. The third-hand story is as others here report: board surfers
jam Middles and H'Poko in the morning and leave when the wind chop
appears. Different surfers then jam the break, picking up sloppy if
not uncrowded conditions and relegate the windsurfers to the parking
lot.
I haven't been to Maui in years. That said, I wonder if the board
surfers who are willing to put up with junky waves do so primarily b/c
of the novelty of surfing Hookipa without having to look up for dive
bombing sailors or the sailor who fails to realize or respect the
reasons behind the prohibition of coming over the back of a wave.
Some analogy might be made to a trucker strike where large diesel rigs
clog French streets to make a point? Eventually a compromise appears
and everyone gets along for measurable period. The truckers and
businesses need to make a living.
My limited experiences at Hookipa still stand as some of the best
windsurfing sessions of my life. But the surfing @ Hookipa marks me
more deeply and represents the true nature of my times on Maui, so I
retain an amount of sentiment toward the surfers. All I hope is that
a working solution can be found.
-Dan
clyde
were dealing with the crisis in a different way.
http://www.mauiwindsurfing.net/videos/20071023_HookipaTeaser.cfm