As I move forward and start using Blu-ray for archiving audio and video projects, does anyone have any info on what blanks to use ort stay away from
I've been using Taiyo Yuden for CDs because of the overwhelming anecdotal info that they are better and suffer fewer coasters. That's been my experience as well.
> As I move forward and start using Blu-ray for archiving audio and video
> projects, does anyone have any info on what blanks to use ort stay away from
> I've been using Taiyo Yuden for CDs because of the overwhelming anecdotal
> info that they are better and suffer fewer coasters. That's been my
> experience as well.
curious that you're using blu-ray though. why not external hd's?
i only ask since i've been using small capacity usb 2 external drives ( per project, cost is minimal) for years without a single incident. on the other hand not only have i found some old(er) cd / dvd's error prone, but incredibly slow to load anything but small projects....
> curious that you're using blu-ray though. why not external hd's?
> i only ask since i've been using small capacity usb 2 external drives ( > per project, cost is minimal) for years without a single incident. on the > other hand not only have i found some old(er) cd / dvd's error prone, but > incredibly slow to load anything but small projects....
And given the tighter tolerances required for Blu-Ray, I doubt they would be any better at long term storage without error. I do however keep my backups on both Hard Disk and DVD in the hope at least one will last. Given the current cost of BluRay disks, I haven't been tempted to go to HD and BluRay just yet.
>> As I move forward and start using Blu-ray for archiving audio and video
>> projects, does anyone have any info on what blanks to use ort stay away from
>> I've been using Taiyo Yuden for CDs because of the overwhelming anecdotal
>> info that they are better and suffer fewer coasters. That's been my
>> experience as well.
> curious that you're using blu-ray though. why not external hd's?
> i only ask since i've been using small capacity usb 2 external drives ( > per project, cost is minimal) for years without a single incident. on > the other hand not only have i found some old(er) cd / dvd's error > prone, but incredibly slow to load anything but small projects....
economy of space and having had issues with mechanical hard drives. I had one that wasn't more than several years old and not used for much but backup that I had to coax into mounting (click, click, click) by unplugging it, powering it down and smacking it soundly before reconnecting and powering it back up.
> economy of space and having had issues with mechanical hard drives. I had > one
> that wasn't more than several years old and not used for much but backup > that
> I had to coax into mounting (click, click, click) by unplugging it, > powering
> it down and smacking it soundly before reconnecting and powering it back > up.
Makes the point that hard drives, both old and new are prone to fail on the shelf.
IME optical media does well in the proverbial cool, dry, dark place.
>> economy of space and having had issues with mechanical hard drives. I had >> one
>> that wasn't more than several years old and not used for much but backup >> that
>> I had to coax into mounting (click, click, click) by unplugging it, >> powering
>> it down and smacking it soundly before reconnecting and powering it back >> up.
> Makes the point that hard drives, both old and new are prone to fail on > the shelf.
> IME optical media does well in the proverbial cool, dry, dark place. >
Blu Ray tech itself has been proven by the broadcast industry to be particularly robust in field use. Of course the Sony cameras that use it have a cartridge loading disc but they are down to about $15 a disc. Wonder if there are affordable computer drives for those discs. Many local television stations with news departments reuse these discs over and over week after week and they have proven robust. Don't know what archival shelf life is like? Might be worth examining.
> On Sat, 24 Dec 2011 18:19:30 -0500, ushere wrote
> (in article <76tJq.789$%E2....@viwinnwfe01.internal.bigpond.com>):
>> On 25/12/2011 9:42 AM, Ty Ford wrote:
>>> Hi,
>>> And Merry Xmas Eve to all,
>>> As I move forward and start using Blu-ray for archiving audio and video
>>> projects, does anyone have any info on what blanks to use ort stay away >>> from
>>> I've been using Taiyo Yuden for CDs because of the overwhelming >>> anecdotal
>>> info that they are better and suffer fewer coasters. That's been my
>>> experience as well.
>> curious that you're using blu-ray though. why not external hd's?
>> i only ask since i've been using small capacity usb 2 external drives (
>> per project, cost is minimal) for years without a single incident. on
>> the other hand not only have i found some old(er) cd / dvd's error
>> prone, but incredibly slow to load anything but small projects....
> economy of space and having had issues with mechanical hard drives. I had > one
> that wasn't more than several years old and not used for much but backup > that
> I had to coax into mounting (click, click, click) by unplugging it, > powering
> it down and smacking it soundly before reconnecting and powering it back > up.
>>> On 25/12/2011 9:42 AM, Ty Ford wrote:
>>>> Hi,
>>>> And Merry Xmas Eve to all,
>>>> As I move forward and start using Blu-ray for archiving audio and video
>>>> projects, does anyone have any info on what blanks to use ort stay away >>>> from
>>>> I've been using Taiyo Yuden for CDs because of the overwhelming >>>> anecdotal
>>>> info that they are better and suffer fewer coasters. That's been my
>>>> experience as well.
>>> curious that you're using blu-ray though. why not external hd's?
>>> i only ask since i've been using small capacity usb 2 external drives (
>>> per project, cost is minimal) for years without a single incident. on
>>> the other hand not only have i found some old(er) cd / dvd's error
>>> prone, but incredibly slow to load anything but small projects....
>> economy of space and having had issues with mechanical hard drives. I had >> one
>> that wasn't more than several years old and not used for much but backup >> that
>> I had to coax into mounting (click, click, click) by unplugging it, >> powering
>> it down and smacking it soundly before reconnecting and powering it back >> up.
>> Regards,
>> Ty Ford
> Did you smack it on the top or on the side;-)
> Steve King
I recently went through my big box of hard drives I've been collecting over the last 15 or so years and decided to try to mount them all and make sure there was nothing of value on them as they all had sharpie markings with stuff like OLD C Drive from Win 98SE machine with a date. So it was a walk down memory lane of 10GB, 20GB hard drives of various flavors for the old days. Some of them spun up, some of them clicked etc. I tried freezing and thawing, hittling, slapping, dropping and various other flavors of anecdotal drive saviour and not a one of the drives that wouldn't spin up would ever spin up.
>> IME optical media does well in the proverbial cool, dry, dark place.
IME a lot still fail, but often due to the fact that discs probably had a high error rate to begin with. You have to be certain the discs you are storing are not only good quality, but your drive is writing to them near perfectly. Once you have a good drive/disc combination, you still need to check it on a regular basis at least. I'm amazed how many people have never done it, and assume just because a disk is readable all is fine.
However I do not think storing hard drives is any guarantee either, having both gives you a better chance IMO.
> I recently went through my big box of hard drives I've been collecting > over the last 15 or so years and decided to try to mount them all and make > sure there was nothing of value on them as they all had sharpie markings > with stuff like OLD C Drive from Win 98SE machine with a date. So it was a > walk down memory lane of 10GB, 20GB hard drives of various flavors for the > old days. Some of them spun up, some of them clicked etc. I tried freezing > and thawing, hittling, slapping, dropping and various other flavors of > anecdotal drive saviour and not a one of the drives that wouldn't spin up > would ever spin up.
Common problem unfortunately, yet I have a 20 year old drive still working fine in a box used nearly every day. The mechanical parts, and even some of the electronics like capacitors, like to be powered up now and then, not left on a shelf indefinitely.
> IME a lot still fail, but often due to the fact that discs probably had a > high error rate to begin with. You have to be certain the discs you are > storing are not only good quality, but your drive is writing to them near > perfectly. Once you have a good drive/disc combination, you still need to > check it on a regular basis at least. I'm amazed how many people have > never done it, and assume just because a disk is readable all is fine.
> However I do not think storing hard drives is any guarantee either, having > both gives you a better chance IMO.
IME failing CDs have all been mistreated and somehow missed out on their siestas in those proverbial cool, dry, dark places. I don't think I've ever had a pressed CD fail to read. CD-Rs have been a little dicey, but the failing discs were not stored properly. I also had a few dozen CD-Rs that were never burned fail in storage, but again they were stored casually.
I've love-patted and burped any number of hard drives into their last productive session. I start out with patting on the sides and then go to the top if that doesn't work. Also temperature cycling, first warming naturally to above room temperature and then a trip through the freezer.
> I recently went through my big box of hard drives I've been collecting > over the last 15 or so years and decided to try to mount them all and make > sure there was nothing of value on them as they all had sharpie markings > with stuff like OLD C Drive from Win 98SE machine with a date. So it was a > walk down memory lane of 10GB, 20GB hard drives of various flavors for the > old days. Some of them spun up, some of them clicked etc. I tried freezing > and thawing, hittling, slapping, dropping and various other flavors of > anecdotal drive saviour and not a one of the drives that wouldn't spin up > would ever spin up.
I have been on similar fishing expeditions, but had a little better luck.
I think we agree on the general truth being that you *can't depend on hard drives* to *not* fail while powered-down on the shelf. I've seen optical drives pull the same irritating stunt.
The good news is that if an optical drive fails, you can still play the media some place else.
> I've love-patted and burped any number of hard drives into their last > productive session. I start out with patting on the sides and then go to the > top if that doesn't work. Also temperature cycling, first warming naturally > to above room temperature and then a trip through the freezer.
Have you tried rotating the enclosur sharply about the spindle axis?
That works in a surprising number of cases.
>> I've love-patted and burped any number of hard drives into their last >> productive session. I start out with patting on the sides and then go to the >> top if that doesn't work. Also temperature cycling, first warming naturally >> to above room temperature and then a trip through the freezer.
> Have you tried rotating the enclosur sharply about the spindle axis?
> That works in a surprising number of cases.
I'm getting ready to go through about 50 bad drives one more time before I trash
them, so I'll give this technique a test. By the way, if you decide to trash a
drive, open it up and remove the gigantic magnet. It is a FABULOUS magnet for a
variety of uses.
>> > Did you smack it on the top or on the side;-)
>> I've love-patted and burped any number of hard drives into their last
>> productive session. I start out with patting on the sides and then go to >> the
>> top if that doesn't work. Also temperature cycling, first warming >> naturally
>> to above room temperature and then a trip through the freezer.
> Have you tried rotating the enclosur sharply about the spindle axis?
> That works in a surprising number of cases.
No, but I will the next time my love pats don't work. Thanks for the tip even though I'm a little dubious about it. Time will tell! ;-)
>> economy of space and having had issues with mechanical hard drives. I had >> one
>> that wasn't more than several years old and not used for much but backup >> that
>> I had to coax into mounting (click, click, click) by unplugging it, >> powering
>> it down and smacking it soundly before reconnecting and powering it back >> up.
>> Regards,
>> Ty Ford
> Did you smack it on the top or on the side;-)
> Steve King
Steve,
I'm certain that's proprietary information.
Smacking the box: N/C
Knowing where to smack the box: $!
> IME failing CDs have all been mistreated and somehow missed out on their > siestas in those proverbial cool, dry, dark places. I don't think I've > ever had a pressed CD fail to read.
I've had a few that failed to read properly from new, especially a decade or two ago. Things seem to have improved in the pressing plants since then.
>CD-Rs have been a little dicey, but the failing discs were not stored >properly.
Nope, seen many cheap discs written on cheap drives that were once readable, stored properly (well dark storage, never used at all, no severe humidity or temperatures), and are now quite useless unfortunately.
(not difficult to find pristine unreadable Princo disks for a start) :-(
However my good quality discs that were burned on a good drive and tested for low error rates, still seem to be fine after 2 decades.
> "J. Clarke" <jclarkeuse...@cox.net> wrote in message
>> Have you tried rotating the enclosur sharply about the spindle axis?
>> That works in a surprising number of cases.
> No, but I will the next time my love pats don't work. Thanks for the tip > even though I'm a little dubious about it. Time will tell! ;-)
Some drives have visible spindle ends, I imagine you'd have even more luck using a friction coupling of sorts to actually spin the platters before powering up when possible.
Of course when all else fails, just pull them apart, clean, and lubricate. You may not have a clean room, but when you have nothing left to lose...
Trevor wrote:
> "Arny Krueger" <ar...@cocmast.net> wrote in message
> news:H-ydnZclFcsS7GXTnZ2dnUVZ_qydnZ2d@giganews.com...
>> IME failing CDs have all been mistreated and somehow missed out on
>> their siestas in those proverbial cool, dry, dark places. I don't
>> think I've ever had a pressed CD fail to read.
> I've had a few that failed to read properly from new, especially a
> decade or two ago. Things seem to have improved in the pressing
> plants since then.
>> CD-Rs have been a little dicey, but the failing discs were not stored
>> properly.
> Nope, seen many cheap discs written on cheap drives that were once
> readable, stored properly (well dark storage, never used at all, no
> severe humidity or temperatures), and are now quite useless
> unfortunately. (not difficult to find pristine unreadable Princo
> disks for a start) :-( However my good quality discs that were burned
> on a good drive and tested for low error rates, still seem to be fine
> after 2 decades.
Even the best discs written with good drives are no guarantee. Although the
life of the disc can be shortened by improper storage, that isn't the only
issue. CD-Rs (DVD-Rs, etc.) depend on the contrast of the dyes to discern
between pits and peaks, and dyes have both light and dark fading
characteristics.
This article provides an easy-to-read overview of the issues:
In article <jd89ld$bl...@speranza.aioe.org>, "Trevor" <tre...@home.net> wrote:
>"Charles Tomaras" <toma...@tomaras.com> wrote in message >news:W_KJq.32731$AN2.24989@newsfe02.iad...
>> I recently went through my big box of hard drives I've been collecting >> over the last 15 or so years and decided to try to mount them all and make >> sure there was nothing of value on them as they all had sharpie markings >> with stuff like OLD C Drive from Win 98SE machine with a date. So it was a >> walk down memory lane of 10GB, 20GB hard drives of various flavors for the >> old days. Some of them spun up, some of them clicked etc. I tried freezing >> and thawing, hittling, slapping, dropping and various other flavors of >> anecdotal drive saviour and not a one of the drives that wouldn't spin up >> would ever spin up.
>Common problem unfortunately, yet I have a 20 year old drive still working >fine in a box used nearly every day. The mechanical parts, and even some of >the electronics like capacitors, like to be powered up now and then, not >left on a shelf indefinitely.
>Trevor.
I have 2 old MFM drives attached to a pair of Adaptec 4000a controller boards running on my old Atari ST systems, They are over 25 years old.
Ty Ford wrote:
> economy of space and having had issues with mechanical hard drives. I
> had one that wasn't more than several years old and not used for much
> but backup that I had to coax into mounting (click, click, click) by
> unplugging it, powering it down and smacking it soundly before
> reconnecting and powering it back up.
harddisks need an occasional spin up - partly to relubricate and partly to reform mobo capacitors.
