One video event not rendering (Vegas Movie Studio HD Platinum)

[David Dyer-Bennet]

So I've finally gotten Vegas installed (not difficult, just took me a
while to get around to it), and shot some video at an event yesterday,
and took my first shot at editing. Vegas and I are getting along pretty
darned well so far, I'd have to say. I got it largely due to advice
here, so thank you!

This first 8-minute documentary has one video event where the video part
previews fine (and was shot with the same camera as most of the rest),
but when I render the project to an mp4 (720p 30fps, same as the project
settings), the video only from that one event fails to render (leaving
the screen black; there's nothing else going on at that point in the
timeline). The audio track from that event comes through fine.

I've gone back and looked, checked properties on the video of the event,
compared them to the next-door event that renders fine. I'm not seeing
any differences. I've checked higher tracks for any accidental overlay
or something (there are only 4 active tracks in the whole project; this
is simple); nothing.

Any suggestions how to proceed?

(This project is in fact much simpler than I had intended; I managed to
achieve a startling level of logistical incompetence while shooting
involving five batteries for two cameras ending up empty or not on site
about 2/3 of the way through what should have been the shooting period,
AND screwed up the controls on my separate sound recorder so I don't
have a full (and good) audio track to work with, just what came from
each video camera while I was shooting. This is totally a practice
project, nothing depends on it, so none of that really matters, but it's
still a tad annoying! Still, it has kept the editing simpler and the
length shorter.)
--
David Dyer-Bennet, dd...@dd-b.net; http://dd-b.net/
Snapshots: http://dd-b.net/dd-b/SnapshotAlbum/data/
Photos: http://dd-b.net/photography/gallery/
Dragaera: http://dragaera.info

[David Ruether]

"David Dyer-Bennet" <dd...@dd-b.net> wrote in message news:
ylfkzkdx...@dd-b.net:

This is a "poser". Some questions:
- When previewing or placing the cursor in the affected track,
did it show properly in the preview window?
- Were all of the image clips on the same track (or with all
tracks turned "on" with the "on/off" switch in the track panels
just to the left of the track ends)?
- If all clips but the affected one were on the same track, and
the affected one was on another track, was the "!" mark selected
on the track with most of the other clips on it?
- Did you move the mouse up the now-black clip until you saw a
"hand", and then, while holding the left mouse button down, did
you move the hand down to the bottom (for 0% opacity).
Otherwise, ??????????????? :-(
--DR

[David Dyer-Bennet]

Yes. (I said the bad event previews fine in the original query, in
fact).

> - Were all of the image clips on the same track (or with all
> tracks turned "on" with the "on/off" switch in the track panels
> just to the left of the track ends)?

Essentially all the image clips are on the same track (there are title
overlays at the beginning and end on another track, everything else is
on this one track). And the event that doesn't render does not overlap
in time with the titles at either end.

> - If all clips but the affected one were on the same track, and
> the affected one was on another track, was the "!" mark selected
> on the track with most of the other clips on it?

No such luck, doesn't apply.

> - Did you move the mouse up the now-black clip until you saw a
> "hand", and then, while holding the left mouse button down, did
> you move the hand down to the bottom (for 0% opacity).

"Now black"? It looks like the others in the timeline window. I need
to investigate this opacity thing, though, because I need to know in
general how to do it. I tried to do something similar in an audio track
to set overall level for the event, and couldn't get the hand to
appear. (I'm assuming those two tools are related, something to do with
the envelope control functions for both video and audio.)

> Otherwise, ??????????????? :-(

Right, that's where I am. I was up too late hoping to finish last
night, and found at the end of the render that it was fine except for
that one detail. Then I checked quickly this morning for things I
thought of over night before making my post. So, maybe this evening
I'll find it clearer when I get home and take a look at it.

One possible difference I thought of: I may have "imported" the avi
file and then used trimmer to make a sub-thingy (lost the name;
sub-clip? Doesn't sound right) in one case, and maybe dragged directly
from a Windows Explorer window into Media in the other. I can't find
any difference in event properties or anywhere, though, and the file
names they list the events as being tied to both look correct (in
particular both still point to valid files).

I may try deleting that event and rebuilding it. (That will probably
involve changing the position of everything after it on the timeline; is
that what "rippling" is about? What do I have to do to get it to happen
right? I really don't want to re-build every transition for the rest of
the piece.)

I may try rendering in some violentrly other format. The project is set
as 1280x720 30fps, good for Internet HD according to the docs (sounds
reasonable to me). What's the "most useful" format to render to for
display on PCs, android phones, and via YouTube? If it's something
else, I can see if rendering in that other format gives me a different
result.

--
David Dyer-Bennet, dd...@dd-b.net; http://dd-b.net/

[David Ruether]

"David Dyer-Bennet" <dd...@dd-b.net> wrote in message news:

ylfk62gk...@dd-b.net:

> "David Ruether" <d_ru...@hotmail.com> writes:
> > "David Dyer-Bennet" <dd...@dd-b.net> wrote in message news:
> > ylfkzkdx...@dd-b.net:

[...]

> > - Did you move the mouse up the now-black clip until you saw a

> > "hand" [with up-pointed finger], and then, while holding the left

> > mouse button down, did you move the hand down to the bottom (for

> > 0% opacity)?

> "Now black"?

Yes. You would see the change in the clip image on the timeline,
and also in the preview window.

> It looks like the others in the timeline window. I need
> to investigate this opacity thing, though, because I need to know in
> general how to do it. I tried to do something similar in an audio track
> to set overall level for the event, and couldn't get the hand to
> appear. (I'm assuming those two tools are related, something to do with
> the envelope control functions for both video and audio.)

They work identically. Just move the mouse up through either the
video or audio clip, then when the hand/finger at the top edge of
the clip, hold the left button down and drag the finger tip down.
The amount of opacity/volume will be indicated in % figures for
both. BTW, if you want a keyframable *audio* rubber-band, click on
"Lock Envelopes to Events" on the top bar, then hit "Shift-V" to
get the audio rubber-band. Double-click on that to place control
points, which can then be moved around.

> > Otherwise, ??????????????? :-(

> Right, that's where I am. I was up too late hoping to finish last
> night, and found at the end of the render that it was fine except for
> that one detail. Then I checked quickly this morning for things I
> thought of over night before making my post. So, maybe this evening
> I'll find it clearer when I get home and take a look at it.
>
> One possible difference I thought of: I may have "imported" the avi
> file and then used trimmer to make a sub-thingy (lost the name;
> sub-clip? Doesn't sound right) in one case, and maybe dragged directly
> from a Windows Explorer window into Media in the other. I can't find
> any difference in event properties or anywhere, though, and the file
> names they list the events as being tied to both look correct (in
> particular both still point to valid files).
>
> I may try deleting that event and rebuilding it. (That will probably
> involve changing the position of everything after it on the timeline; is
> that what "rippling" is about? What do I have to do to get it to happen
> right? I really don't want to re-build every transition for the rest of
> the piece.)

If the new clip is the same length as the old, deselect ripple edit,
delete the old clip, and insert the new. If the new clip is a different
length, do the same, THEN click on ripple edit and move the first clip
AFTER the new one to open/close the space for proper fit. All else will
remain unchanged. Usually it is better to the deselect ripple edit to
avoid later unexpected "Kabolixes"...;-)

> I may try rendering in some violentrly other format. The project is set
> as 1280x720 30fps, good for Internet HD according to the docs (sounds
> reasonable to me). What's the "most useful" format to render to for
> display on PCs, android phones, and via YouTube? If it's something
> else, I can see if rendering in that other format gives me a different
> result.
> --
> David Dyer-Bennet, dd...@dd-b.net; http://dd-b.net/

1280x720-30P is a good choice for the above...
--DR

[David Ruether]

"David Ruether" <d_ru...@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:
jeful7$plr$1...@ruby.cit.cornell.edu:

> If the new clip is the same length as the old, deselect ripple edit,
> delete the old clip, and insert the new. If the new clip is a different
> length, do the same, THEN click on ripple edit and move the first clip
> AFTER the new one to open/close the space for proper fit. All else will

> remain unchanged. Usually it is better to the[n] deselect ripple edit to

> avoid later unexpected "Kabolixes"...;-)

Or, you can select ripple edit, delete the old clip, and move the
new one to its correct position (all will accommodate it without
problems - although it is still a good idea to leave ripple edit
off unless you need it...).
--DR

[David Dyer-Bennet]

"David Ruether" <d_ru...@hotmail.com> writes:

> "David Dyer-Bennet" <dd...@dd-b.net> wrote in message news:
> ylfk62gk...@dd-b.net:
>> "David Ruether" <d_ru...@hotmail.com> writes:
>> > "David Dyer-Bennet" <dd...@dd-b.net> wrote in message news:
>> > ylfkzkdx...@dd-b.net:
>
> [...]
>> > - Did you move the mouse up the now-black clip until you saw a
>> > "hand" [with up-pointed finger], and then, while holding the left
>> > mouse button down, did you move the hand down to the bottom (for
>> > 0% opacity)?
>
>> "Now black"?
>
> Yes. You would see the change in the clip image on the timeline,
> and also in the preview window.

Yep, confirmed that last night (i.e. I found how to do the opacity
change; and found that the event that rendered black as NOT set to 0
opacity).

>> It looks like the others in the timeline window. I need
>> to investigate this opacity thing, though, because I need to know in
>> general how to do it. I tried to do something similar in an audio track
>> to set overall level for the event, and couldn't get the hand to
>> appear. (I'm assuming those two tools are related, something to do with
>> the envelope control functions for both video and audio.)
>
> They work identically. Just move the mouse up through either the
> video or audio clip, then when the hand/finger at the top edge of
> the clip, hold the left button down and drag the finger tip down.
> The amount of opacity/volume will be indicated in % figures for
> both. BTW, if you want a keyframable *audio* rubber-band, click on
> "Lock Envelopes to Events" on the top bar, then hit "Shift-V" to
> get the audio rubber-band. Double-click on that to place control
> points, which can then be moved around.

Yes, found both this time. (Sunday was my first use of Vegas, and I've
never really used any other non-linear editing package for video, though
I've used Audacity for audio just a little bit. So I'm having my
beginner's screw-ups along the way and all that.)

>> > Otherwise, ??????????????? :-(
>
>> Right, that's where I am. I was up too late hoping to finish last
>> night, and found at the end of the render that it was fine except for
>> that one detail. Then I checked quickly this morning for things I
>> thought of over night before making my post. So, maybe this evening
>> I'll find it clearer when I get home and take a look at it.
>>
>> One possible difference I thought of: I may have "imported" the avi
>> file and then used trimmer to make a sub-thingy (lost the name;
>> sub-clip? Doesn't sound right) in one case, and maybe dragged directly
>> from a Windows Explorer window into Media in the other. I can't find
>> any difference in event properties or anywhere, though, and the file
>> names they list the events as being tied to both look correct (in
>> particular both still point to valid files).
>>
>> I may try deleting that event and rebuilding it. (That will probably
>> involve changing the position of everything after it on the timeline; is
>> that what "rippling" is about? What do I have to do to get it to happen
>> right? I really don't want to re-build every transition for the rest of
>> the piece.)
>
> If the new clip is the same length as the old, deselect ripple edit,
> delete the old clip, and insert the new. If the new clip is a different
> length, do the same, THEN click on ripple edit and move the first clip
> AFTER the new one to open/close the space for proper fit. All else will
> remain unchanged. Usually it is better to the deselect ripple edit to
> avoid later unexpected "Kabolixes"...;-)

I need to go into a test project with just a few simple things in it and
play with ripple edit. I think I understand the general concept;
there's a conflict between whether you want to preserve thre
relationships of events to time, or of events to each other. When you
change the length of an early event, later events must either change
their position in time, or else change their relationship to the changed
early event. And sometimes you need one and sometimes you need the
other.

>> I may try rendering in some violentrly other format. The project is set
>> as 1280x720 30fps, good for Internet HD according to the docs (sounds
>> reasonable to me). What's the "most useful" format to render to for
>> display on PCs, android phones, and via YouTube? If it's something
>> else, I can see if rendering in that other format gives me a different
>> result.

> 1280x720-30P is a good choice for the above...

So I went and played around last night, and did partial renderings (the
whole thing takes 20 minutes to render for an 8 minute result; making it
officially slower than Photoshop :-) ). I did a direct AVI rendering
and that played. Then I went back and did a partial mp4 rendering.
That played. Then I did a full mp4 rendering, and THAT played. So, I
can't figure out what I did differently; I didn't change the event that
had failed to render previously at all (I did make changes to the
closing titles, but that's at the far end of the file).

And uploaded it to youtube. And got a strange error message at the
start of the upload, but it still went through the entire upload. And
it gave me a URL for the video. But when I go to that URL the video
isn't there.

So I left it using the Vegas direct to youtube rendering option; it was
running when I left for work, but should hae finished an hour ago now.
And I can't find the video still. So I'll see what's on the screen when
I get home tonight.

Due to my logistics disaster the source material was rather thin and the
sound isn't what it should be. The editing is dull and rather plodding.
But I'm liking Vegas a lot; except for the few little issues here, I've
found it quite easy to figure out how to do what I want, the UI is quite
decent and "makes sense" to me, the capabilities look excellent, etc.
Even the video from my cell phone (pressed into service when all my
other batteries died) doesn't look totally horrid (it supports 720p).

--
David Dyer-Bennet, dd...@dd-b.net; http://dd-b.net/

[David Ruether]

"David Dyer-Bennet" <dd...@dd-b.net> wrote in message

news:ylfkehv7...@dd-b.net:

Nat-chur-lee....! 6-{ It takes a while (maybe years...) to get
"fluent" with all parts of the versatile Vegas - but the basics
(good enough for most things) are not hard to master (but sometimes
there are little tricks that can elude one...). BTW, Vegas is good
for both video and audio editing.

> >> > Otherwise, ??????????????? :-(

[...]

> >> I may try deleting that event and rebuilding it. (That will probably
> >> involve changing the position of everything after it on the timeline; is
> >> that what "rippling" is about? What do I have to do to get it to happen
> >> right? I really don't want to re-build every transition for the rest of
> >> the piece.)

> > If the new clip is the same length as the old, deselect ripple edit,
> > delete the old clip, and insert the new. If the new clip is a different
> > length, do the same, THEN click on ripple edit and move the first clip
> > AFTER the new one to open/close the space for proper fit. All else will
> > remain unchanged. Usually it is better to the deselect ripple edit to
> > avoid later unexpected "Kabolixes"...;-)

You can also select ripple edit, remove the old clip, add the new
in the appropriate place (all that comes after will remain intact),
then deselect ripple edit to avoid mistakes.

> I need to go into a test project with just a few simple things in it and
> play with ripple edit. I think I understand the general concept;
> there's a conflict between whether you want to preserve thre
> relationships of events to time, or of events to each other. When you
> change the length of an early event, later events must either change
> their position in time, or else change their relationship to the changed
> early event. And sometimes you need one and sometimes you need the
> other.

??? But ripple edit should solve your problems and do what you want.
BTW, you can set up experiments farther down the timeline, or try
them with your project. You can "undo" MANY levels, even if you have
saved the project (you can't do much wrong...;-).

> >> I may try rendering in some violentrly other format. The project is set
> >> as 1280x720 30fps, good for Internet HD according to the docs (sounds
> >> reasonable to me). What's the "most useful" format to render to for
> >> display on PCs, android phones, and via YouTube? If it's something
> >> else, I can see if rendering in that other format gives me a different
> >> result.

> > 1280x720-30P is a good choice for the above...

> So I went and played around last night, and did partial renderings (the
> whole thing takes 20 minutes to render for an 8 minute result; making it
> officially slower than Photoshop :-) ). I did a direct AVI rendering
> and that played. Then I went back and did a partial mp4 rendering.
> That played. Then I did a full mp4 rendering, and THAT played. So, I
> can't figure out what I did differently; I didn't change the event that
> had failed to render previously at all (I did make changes to the
> closing titles, but that's at the far end of the file).

Dunno...;-)

> And uploaded it to youtube. And got a strange error message at the
> start of the upload, but it still went through the entire upload. And
> it gave me a URL for the video. But when I go to that URL the video
> isn't there.

Dunno... Does the video match or remain less than the YouTube specifics?
The data rate, maximum length, exact resolution, etc. may prevent
YouTube
"normalcy".

> So I left it using the Vegas direct to youtube rendering option; it was
> running when I left for work, but should hae finished an hour ago now.
> And I can't find the video still. So I'll see what's on the screen when
> I get home tonight.
>
> Due to my logistics disaster the source material was rather thin and the
> sound isn't what it should be. The editing is dull and rather plodding.
> But I'm liking Vegas a lot; except for the few little issues here, I've
> found it quite easy to figure out how to do what I want, the UI is quite
> decent and "makes sense" to me, the capabilities look excellent, etc.
> Even the video from my cell phone (pressed into service when all my
> other batteries died) doesn't look totally horrid (it supports 720p).
> --
> David Dyer-Bennet, dd...@dd-b.net; http://dd-b.net/

Vegas can make some pretty horrid video and sound appear to be better.
Even with good footage, I usually apply Brightness/Contrast, Color-
Balance, Color-Curves, Saturation-Adjust, Sharpen, and Unsharp-Mask.
As for audio, the filters are excellent and numerous (I use "Track
EQ" the most among just the many available EQs).
--DR

[David Dyer-Bennet]

"David Ruether" <d_ru...@hotmail.com> writes:

> "David Dyer-Bennet" <dd...@dd-b.net> wrote in message

> news:ylfkehv7...@dd-b.net:

>> And uploaded it to youtube. And got a strange error message at the
>> start of the upload, but it still went through the entire upload. And
>> it gave me a URL for the video. But when I go to that URL the video
>> isn't there.
>
> Dunno... Does the video match or remain less than the YouTube
> specifics? The data rate, maximum length, exact resolution, etc. may
> prevent YouTube
> "normalcy".

It seemed to want me to generate a Quicktime video instead. On the
other hand, it accepted a 500MB upload; so I took the info as advisory
rather than an error diagnostic.

>> So I left it using the Vegas direct to youtube rendering option; it was
>> running when I left for work, but should hae finished an hour ago now.
>> And I can't find the video still. So I'll see what's on the screen when
>> I get home tonight.

The direct YouTube upload option really ought to produce an acceptable
format, I would think. There wasn't any place for me to set details.

Well, I'll see when I get home.

>> Due to my logistics disaster the source material was rather thin and the
>> sound isn't what it should be. The editing is dull and rather plodding.
>> But I'm liking Vegas a lot; except for the few little issues here, I've
>> found it quite easy to figure out how to do what I want, the UI is quite
>> decent and "makes sense" to me, the capabilities look excellent, etc.
>> Even the video from my cell phone (pressed into service when all my
>> other batteries died) doesn't look totally horrid (it supports 720p).

> Vegas can make some pretty horrid video and sound appear to be better.
> Even with good footage, I usually apply Brightness/Contrast, Color-
> Balance, Color-Curves, Saturation-Adjust, Sharpen, and Unsharp-Mask.
> As for audio, the filters are excellent and numerous (I use "Track
> EQ" the most among just the many available EQs).

I should probably do more to improve the cell-phone video. Well,
haven't managed a YouTube upload yet, so I can do that :-). I did make
some audio track adjustments already.

By the way, is there some kind of post-processing image stabilization
available? There was something in one of the menus that looked a bit
like that. I might want to experiment with that, too, since the cell
phone doesn't have stabilization.

I need to remember to bring gaffer's tape to these things; just taping
the phone up somewhere for a covering shot while I ran around with the
other camera would have been a huge improvement.

--
David Dyer-Bennet, dd...@dd-b.net; http://dd-b.net/