Backpacking/Hostelling In Alaska
John
the time period of June 25th through August 16. I would most likely be
staying for about a month +/- a few days. I am seriously considering
hostelling while I am in the state touring and backpacking around Denali and
other state parks. Here are some of my idea's... I am 19 and new to
hostelling and would like to know any useful travel information in Alaska.
Anyone know of some great places that I really should see? I think I will
fly into Anchorage, have a look around the city there (maybe a tour), take
the Alaskan railroad to Denali NP and spend much of my time there and stay
at the Denali Mountain Morning Hostel & Lodge. Eventually I want to work my
way on the RR to Fairbanks and see a few places I've wanted to see around
there. I would like to see some of the other northern places in Alaska but
I don't know how I would get access to the parks and such if I don't have a
car. Bus maybe? That's all I got right now. Would anyone know of some
links or guides that might help me have a nice and enjoyable trip?
Also, Where might I possibly find people who would want to share the
experience with me? I am hoping that if I go alone, I will meet people in
the hostel who are in the same situation and might consider teaming up and
go touring/hiking together. Is there a chance of this? Is there any other
pre-vacation planning that I really should do?
Thank You Very Much!
John
Bill Hilton
campgrounds instead of a Hostel. I think the backcountry sites are even free
... and the others are cheap. Ride the park shuttle busses to get around. Try
to get all the way out to Wonder Lake if possible.
>I think I will fly into Anchorage, have a look around the city there
> (maybe a tour), take the Alaskan railroad to Denali NP
A shuttle van is significantly cheaper than the RR (less than 1/2 price), also
faster. You can find one on-line that will meet you in Anchorage.
>Where might I possibly find people who would want to share the
>experience with me? I am hoping that if I go alone, I will meet people in
>the hostel who are in the same situation and might consider teaming up and
>go touring/hiking together. Is there a chance of this?
It's easy to make friends at the campgrounds, with many young people like you
from nations all over the world doing the same thing you're doing. I'd guess
there will be similar people in the hostels.
>Is there any other pre-vacation planning that I really should do?
Industrial strength bug repellant is a must. You won't believe the mosquitos,
especially if you walk in the brush.
Industrial strength rain gear is a must. We've spend about 40 days in Alaska
the past 2 summers and it probably rained 90% of those days ... often for just
a short while but sometimes all day. Rain gear that breathes (like Gore-Tex)
will let you continue to "recreate" comfortably when the showers pass thru.
Hiking in rain gear that doesn't breath is a soggy, uncomfortable experience as
moisture builds up under the gear.
Read up on how to behave around grizzly bears because you'll no doubt see a few
of them if you camp much in Alaska. You *really* don't want to piss off a
grizzly bear so learn how to handle food correctly, learn where to make noise
to warn them of your presence, and never approach a grizz on foot if you happen
to see one in the tundra (I've seen as many as 18 in one day in Denali).
Another reason to make friends and travel in a small group ...
Have a great trip, Alaska is one incredible place.
Bill
mhicaoidh
news:1ABD8.285717$nc.41...@typhoon.tampabay.rr.com...
>
> Also, Where might I possibly find people who would want to share the
> experience with me? I am hoping that if I go alone, I will meet people in
> the hostel who are in the same situation and might consider teaming up and
> go touring/hiking together. Is there a chance of this? Is there any
other
> pre-vacation planning that I really should do?
That time of year it is very possible. Alaska and Hawaii are the only
US states that I have not been to. However, I have been in many a hostel.
If you are outgoing, and friendly, you'll have no problems meeting people.
I planned a whole trip through the UK entirely online. Start doing
Google and Yahoo searches with words and phrases you are interested in.
There are also countless useful, general travel tip sites out there.
Louie Escober
John,
I did a fairly similar trip a number of years ago. My plan was to fly
into Anchorage, check out the city for a day or two, run up to Denali
for some backpacking, then come back down and do trips on the Kenai
Peninsula.
Downtown Anchorage is pretty touristy, so there isn't much to see
there. It's a good place to get info on the rest of your visit, though.
Also, it's wise to stock up on supplies in Anchorage, if possible.
There's an REI and a number of supermarkets.
I do recommend the Alaskan Native Heritage Center:
http://www.alaskanative.net/
and the Anchorage Museum of History and Art:
http://www.anchoragemuseum.org/
I've stayed at the Downtown hostel and the Spenard hostel. The downtown
hostel has a great location, but they lock you out of the rooms for a
portion of the day for cleaning (though, the common rooms are open).
The Spenard hostel is nicer, but harder to get to. Public transport in
Anchorage is an exercise in patience as the buses don't run that often.
There are a couple of more hostels in Anchorage that have recently
opened, but I haven't stayed at them.
I would suggest you add a trip down the Kenai Peninsula to Seward.
There are a couple of glaciers to visit on the way, and once you reach
Seward, I would highly recommend a cruise in Kenai Fjords National
Park. I'd recommend a car, since it allows you to stop along the way
and make use of the forest service campgrounds if you don't want to
stay at the Seward Hostel. The Seward hostel was o.k.
You might want to consider a trip to Talkeetna. It's on the way to
Denali, and is the jumping off point for climbing expeditions. I
suggest a stopover here because if the mountain is out, a flightseeing
trip around Denali is fantastic. I used K2 aviation, and it was a bit
expensive, but worth it. I did it as a day trip out of Anchorage. I
suppose you could jump off the train when it stops in Talkeetna, take
the flight, and then catch the train the next day, but aside from the
flightseeing and a quick walk around the town, there ain't much to do.
In Denali, I stayed at Morino Campground, Wonder Lake, and did a
overnight backpack trip into one of the regions. It's fairly easy to
get around the little town outside the park as there are a number of
tourist buses that run regular routes and they're free to everyone. As
for getting on the buses into the backcountry and getting access to one
of the backcountry units, I would suggest you be as flexible as
possible. If you're in Denali around mid-August, I think a night or two
at Wonder Lake is definitely worthwhile. The mosquitos weren't that bad
when I was there in mid to late August, and I got to see the mountain
while out there.
I only did camping while in Denali, so I can't comment on the hostel.
The railroad trip out to Denali was nice and a leisurely way of
traveling. They have docents in each car that point out the sights
along the way. If you can get on one of the Princess railcars for the
same price, it would be worthwhile as the cars have better viewing
platforms.
I suggest you get a copy of Lonely Planet's guidebook for Alaska. I
found it very useful in planning.
Louie
In article <1ABD8.285717$nc.41...@typhoon.tampabay.rr.com>, John
John
"Louie Escober" <escog_nos...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:130520020004504041%escog_nos...@hotmail.com...
Thanks Alot... Your info was very useful! I think I will look into a trip
down to Kenai Peninsula. Unfortunately for me, Getting a car might be kinda
tough. Me being 19 and all. Any suggestions? (nothing illegal! :)) Also I
should check with the Alaska RR to see if I can hop off at some of the
destinations between Anchorage and Fairbanks without paying a fee. I don't
want this to be a bare bones trip so I want to be able to spend some money
on luxuries while I am there. (Train, Tours, guides and rental equipment).
Also... are there any busses that run up to north Alaska. Is there anything
good to see up there? At least I could say I was up in the artic circle!
LOL.
Thanks For your help again!
John
NewsUser
>
>
> Thanks Alot... Your info was very useful! I think I will look into a trip
> down to Kenai Peninsula. Unfortunately for me, Getting a car might be
kinda
> tough. Me being 19 and all. Any suggestions? (nothing illegal! :)) Also
I
> should check with the Alaska RR to see if I can hop off at some of the
> destinations between Anchorage and Fairbanks without paying a fee. I
don't
> want this to be a bare bones trip so I want to be able to spend some money
> on luxuries while I am there. (Train, Tours, guides and rental
equipment).
> Also... are there any busses that run up to north Alaska. Is there
anything
> good to see up there? At least I could say I was up in the artic circle!
> LOL.
>
I know you aren't driving, but you might get some info about roads, bus
availability, accomodations etc from the Milepost. Check out
www.milepost.com . This is the state's visitor website:
http://www.dced.state.ak.us/tourism/ To get above the arctic circle you'll
either have to drive the Dalton Hwy or fly. Not a lot of bus lines or roads
in the state.
karen
Brian Wasson
Line of Alaska (see http://www.graylineofalaska.com/alaskon.cfm). The
bus doesn't go everywhere, but it's better than nothing. Since you
have so much time, I'd consider taking the train from Anchorage to
Fairbanks (stopping in Denali for several days), then maybe taking one
of the bus/airline trips up to the North Slope/Arctic Circle (do a Web
search to find vendors). I don't think there is a schedule
transportation service from Fairbanks to Valdez down the Richardson
Hwy, but you probably could hitch it.
About halfway from Fairbanks to Valdez along the Rich is Glennallen,
where you can catch a daily (I think) van service to the McCarthy in
the interior of Wrangell-St. Elias NP. I'd highly recommend this trip
(well, I've never taken the van, but have driven it in my own car
several times over the years). I think it's around $80 roundtrip. Plan
to stay overnight or a few days and explore the area. the McCarthy and
Kennicott area is really neat, even if it is getting very touristy
(sadly, no more tram to use).
From Valdez you could catch the Alaska ferry to Cordova or over to the
Kenai Pennisula and then head back up to Anchorage.
All of that should keep you busy for a while! Or, add-in a trip to the
Yukon on Gray Line's busses and see Whitehorse and the Kluane NP area.
Some more info on Alaska is on my Web site (which is somewhat in need
of an update, due this summer) at
http://members.aol.com/briwasson/alaskalinks.html. I'll be heading
into Alaska on June 26th, too, so maybe I'll see you! The first few
days are business for me in Anchorage, but then I have a week to knock
around the state. Still trying to decide whether to rent a car ($$$)
or do a bike trip or something.
Brian Wasson
Philadelphia, PA/USA
Scott Ruby
> "Brian Wasson" wrote
> About halfway from Fairbanks to Valdez along the Rich is Glennallen,
> where you can catch a daily (I think) van service to the McCarthy in
> the interior of Wrangell-St. Elias NP. I'd highly recommend this trip
> (well, I've never taken the van, but have driven it in my own car
> several times over the years). I think it's around $80 roundtrip. Plan
> to stay overnight or a few days and explore the area. the McCarthy and
> Kennicott area is really neat, even if it is getting very touristy
> (sadly, no more tram to use).
Touristy.....you ain't seen nothing yet. Princess opens up their hotel in
Copper Center this summer. That's going to flood the area with tourists,
and spin off a lot of other economic development. DOT is already got plans
fo a huge parking areas just before the river at McCarthy. I wouldn't be
too suprised to see plans to pave the road.
By all means if you are even remotley interested in this area, you should go
see it now, before it develops more.
Scott
NewsUser
the first I heard of the changes at McCarthy. What a shame! I checked the
state's DOT website and they have a section on the proposed upgrades to the
parking area. It is all still in the talking stages and it should be noted
that one of the five alternatives is to leave things as they currently are.
Some decision is scheduled to be made spring/summer of this year. It was
distressing enough to learn the tram has been replaced with a footbridge,
but at least it's unlikely that will be upgraded to allow car traffic.
The PDF document on the McCarthy road was too long to download (111 pages)
but I suspect that is mostly talk, too.
I can't believe there are vans taking tourists in! What about the rickety
old train trestle you used to have to drive across the river? Has that been
changed? Jeeze, last I was there was 20 years ago. Can't even begin to
express how disappointed I feel. I read there is even a National Park Kiosk
there. Used to be just some great wilderness.
karen
"Scott Ruby" <scott...@acsalaska.net> wrote in message
news:ue0914r...@corp.supernews.com...
Louie Escober
You don't need a car to get down to Kenai Fjords, as you can take the
train or bus. You can check around the hostel and see if anybody is
heading down that way and hitch a ride. I recommend it simply because
it allows you flexibility. Forgot about that under 25 thing with rental
cars.
If you're looking to head north from Fairbanks, you might want to
consider the various hot spring resorts up there. I haven't been there,
but Chena Hot Springs looks nice. They have a website. From what I've
read, trips up to the Arctic Circle are popular for just the very
reason you state: So people can say they've been there! The flights are
kinda pricey, though. Also, Fairbanks is considered one of the best
places to catch the Aurora Borealis, but you're dates may not be quite
late enough in the year for it to be dark enough to see them.
Louie
In article <wzQD8.301454$nc.42...@typhoon.tampabay.rr.com>, John
John
Thanks, Your right... I wont be able to catch the northern lights. Sux. But
yeah, I will look into the hot springs... What are they exactly? can you
jump in them and swim in the warm-scalding water?
John
Brian Wasson
time, probably the past 10 years or so. You still drive over the train
trestle over the gorge, but they now have guardrails on it. It's still
fun to walk on the catwalk under the bridge, though (not for those
with a fear of heights!).
The first time I was to McCarthy/Kennicott was in 1988, and it was
still rarely visited. We camped on one of the tailing piles right in
the center of Kennicott and spent a fun day or two exploring the
buildings and even climbed all the way up inside the main mill
building (not real smart in retrospect!). Other visits in 1994 and
1997 have shown an increasing tourism boom in the area (heck, they
even have cellular pay phones now in McCarthy!).
I'm bummed to hear about the new hotel in Copper Center. That will
totally ruin the feel of that small, mostly-Native, town. Ever since
they put the Richardson bypass in it has felt like time forgot it.
I've played more than one softball game under the midnight sun at the
school in Copper Center. Oh well....
Eugene Miya
It's as close as you can get to Alaska.
>You might want to consider a trip to Talkeetna.
Avoid it unless you have business there.
>I suggest you get a copy of Lonely Planet's guidebook for Alaska. I
>found it very useful in planning.
I would not buy this book. Borrow one from a friend or a library.
It and the Milepost are useful when using a road based driving vehicle.
That excludes most of Alaska. One of my co-workers is the offspring of
one of the editors.
>In article <1ABD8.285717$nc.41...@typhoon.tampabay.rr.com>, John
><johns...@nospammingyahoo.com> wrote:
>> Hello! I am in the preliminary stages of planning a trip to Alaska around
>> the time period of June 25th through August 16. I would most likely be
Take DEET.
>> staying for about a month +/- a few days. I am seriously considering
>> hostelling while I am in the state touring and backpacking around Denali and
>> other state parks. Here are some of my idea's... I am 19 and new to
>> hostelling and would like to know any useful travel information in Alaska.
>> Anyone know of some great places that I really should see? I think I will
>> fly into Anchorage, have a look around the city there (maybe a tour), take
>> the Alaskan railroad to Denali NP and spend much of my time there and stay
The tours on the train are given by recent HS graduates.
>> at the Denali Mountain Morning Hostel & Lodge. Eventually I want to work my
>> way on the RR to Fairbanks and see a few places I've wanted to see around
>> there. I would like to see some of the other northern places in Alaska but
>> I don't know how I would get access to the parks and such if I don't have a
>> car. Bus maybe? That's all I got right now.
There are "Circle" tours which fall into a number of categories which
you can see ads in the Milepost.
The basic bus tour drives up to Haul road to the Circle rest stop and
turns around back to Fairbanks.
The 2 day tour goes up to the next (and last) gas station at Coldfoot.
Most amusing were the Japanese tourists standing around in bunny boots
last June. The VECO guys aren't supposed to take hitchers (but...).
The 3 day option goes up all the way to Deadhorse and either
1) flies the people back or 2) drives the people back to Fairbanks.
Touristy.
So we are driving up in this UAF truck (an Excursion "the largest" SUV
made....). And we have and turn on the CB radio (useful on roads).
And there's this woman tour bus driver with a distinctive voice and call
announcing to all the traffic ahead that she's cresting each blind hill and
corner. "We're just a little old tour bus...." I wonder if she is
still working the route....
Numerous people bike the haul road.
I supposed others hitch.
And there is air hitching.
Flying is the way to see Alaska.
Just made my first set of flights and I have to debate flying into
Deadhorse or Fairbanks (sorry Bud, no time for a social call this trip).
And a year ago I was thinking that my last flight from Deadhorse was
going to be my last.....
Scott Ruby
> "Brian Wasson" wrote
> I'm bummed to hear about the new hotel in Copper Center. That will
> totally ruin the feel of that small, mostly-Native, town. Ever since
> they put the Richardson bypass in it has felt like time forgot it.
> I've played more than one softball game under the midnight sun at the
> school in Copper Center. Oh well....
The hotel isn't actually "in" Copper Center. As is their practice, Princess
gets cheap land in the area (with a view) and builds. Has happened in
Denali, Talkeetna, and Cooper Landing. That way none of the locals can
easily get a piece of the action, and they can more easily control their
sheep...er I mean guests.
Saw a mention in the paper (ADN) where they were trying to get an add in to
the state budget to run electricity to one of their lodges, the figure was
$200,000. Seems the private development isn't quite what is once was.
Scott
jb
But
> yeah, I will look into the hot springs... What are they exactly? can you
> jump in them and swim in the warm-scalding water?
Since nobody has replied yet I'll give you my 2cents. I went to Chena Hot
Springs in 1996, so my memory might be a little bad. I believe it is about
an hour from Fairbanks. Seemed like the road was very bumpy. When we got
there, there was a few big regular (man-made) hot tubs outside that were
heated by the springs. The actual springs were little nasty ponds that
nobody ventured into. Inside a building there is a small cement pool that is
heated by the spring. The air had that sulfur smell like many hot springs. I
was very disapointed in the trip, but still had fun going.
Shooty Canseco
"jb" <brainer...@gci.net> wrote in message
news:ue3udtn...@corp.supernews.com...
Chena Hot Springs is no longer as jb remembers it.
I was there just over a year ago and it's fantastic. What used to be a
grubby little dump is now a polished resort by Alaska standards. The
outdoor pool has been thoroughly modernized with a black sand bottom and
beautiful bolders all around the edge. The air is slightly sulphurous, but
not bad to my nose.
I think it would be a lot more fun in the winter than summer, what with the
contrast between the interior cold and the warm water, plus the northern
lights. But again, it is now a very polished resort and nothing like what
jb describes, or what I saw when I was there in the mid-80s.
Shooty
Jan Flora
<brainer...@gci.net> wrote:
Chena Hot Springs has changed owners since then, and from what I hear,
has been vastly improved.
Chena is 60 miles out of Fairbanks, so yes, the road is a little bumpy.
It's a country road. It's still a heck of a lot better than most country
roads in Alaska that I've driven. For one thing, it's paved, so you won't
get stuck in frost boils that require a D-8 to get your pickup out.
Jan
doc
could drive the rental car. We were all 21 years old, but the rental
company would only let drivers who were either over 25 or over 21 with AAA
(Automobile Club) membership. I had the membership.
Maybe you can locate a rental car company that offers similar deals, but for
someone your age.
If you don't mind sharing, I'd be interested in seeing some preliminary
budget information. I might just make it to Alaska myself next year.
Regards,
doc
On Mon, 13 May 2002 15:01:48 GMT, "John" <johns...@nospammingyahoo.com>
wrote:
<SNIP>
John
car to someone under 21. I will look into it. What preliminary budget
information were you interested in looking at?
John
"doc" <d...@home.spamfree> wrote in message
news:315keu0bfu4lprkuo...@4ax.com...
doc
My plan would be to use either public transportation (as available) or
automobile (I'm over 25 and have been for some time now) if absolutely
necessary. Mostly, I'd be traveling with a very light pack, hostelling
where convenient and accessing the backcountry for several ultralight trips
in select wilderness areas. I have considered having a plane drop me in
some remote location and hiking out, preferably along a 200+ mile trail.
Any cost data you might have for current hostel rates (or range of rates),
train & bus estimates, and key "do not miss" tours, I'd be interested in.
Since I have not really picked spots to see other than the big national
parks (such as Denali), I can't be more specific.
Regards,
doc
On Tue, 21 May 2002 16:07:52 GMT, "John" <johns...@nospammingyahoo.com>
wrote:
John
you all around the big cities for very cheap. (Almost Free). How long will
you be in AK and when? Sometime when you are there I would highly recommend
taking the Alaskan Railroad from Anchorage to Denali to Fairbanks... Check
here!
I would check here for information on all the Hostels in AK.
I have heard alot of good reviews of this hostel right beside Denali. They
will even pick you up at the terminal after the RR trip. Beautiful place if
you check their WP. They also rent gear. A bus goes into Denali from where
they live. You can get a bunk for $23 or a tent for $15. Better/Larger
rooms/Cabins are available. Most of the Hostels in AK range from $13-20 as
you will see on the hostels.com page.
http://www.hostelalaska.com/hostelalaska001.htm
Are you planning on doing any heli-hiking? Also, would you think you would
be interested in visiting Gates of the Artic NP? If you are a good
backcountryer, you should love it there. Go to NPS.gov or enter it in
google and see what you can find on it. There are also alot of other NP's
and SP's that look interesting. I am planning on doing a overnight fly to
Barrow, AK when I am up there. I am kinda mixing backpacking/touring
together on this trip. Another nice place to see is the Kenai Fjords NP.
Go on a full-day boat tour if you want. What is your budget? Again, what
time will you be going on this trip?
John
"doc" <d...@home.spamfree> wrote in message
news:10jmeugoboilkhi0c...@4ax.com...
John
hostel's and rooms/lodges around them. They are around the town of
Fairbanks. One of the things you really should see if possible. If you
have a car/rentacar It would alow you to get to places easier and stuff.
But if you don't you wont be hindered too much. I am 19 and I still can't
find somewhere that will rent me a car. Another tip... wherever you go...
take some bug spray.
John
"doc" <d...@home.spamfree> wrote in message
news:10jmeugoboilkhi0c...@4ax.com...
doc
shorter period might also happen.
Thanks for the info. You mention some great sites too.
Regards,
doc
On Wed, 22 May 2002 16:55:07 GMT, "John" <johns...@nospammingyahoo.com>
wrote:
Brian Wasson
rental age of 18. You might try them. See
http://www.bnm.com/highak.htm
"John" <johns...@nospammingyahoo.com> wrote in message news:<shuG8.6266$YI5....@twister.tampabay.rr.com>...
John
John
"Brian Wasson" <briw...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:4c7bd0b3.02052...@posting.google.com...
Michael Brennan
good background information on the history and geography of Alaska.
--mikeb
In article <DkHD8.28292$Po6....@rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net>,
Michael Brennan
towns, and mosquitoes a plenty, and big trucks spitting up rocks, but there
are many that do it, certainly give you some independence and mobility.
--mikeb
In article <udvpmqh...@corp.supernews.com>,
Michael Brennan
on 04/07/02 unfortunately, for $1500.00 (plus $250 for food) inc airfare from
Alaska back to Seattle. Drive to Port Stanley, BC from Seattle and take
ferries to Islands in the inside passage, and then up to Dawson, across to
Denali, and down to Anchorage and on to Seward. Finishing up back in Anchorage.
There is also the Alaska loop trail leaves Anchorage on Aug 9, for 15 days,
similar itinerary to above (no inland passage) for $699 + $171 for food, does
not include air to/from Alaska.
Would like to hear of any experience with this outfit, sounds like a great
adventure ( http://www.greentortoise.com/alaskan.expedition.html ). I was on a
rough-n-ready bus for a week once back in the 70s in Afghanistan, went to the
main sites. Was an interesting experience, being holed up with 30 strangers
for a week in a bus takes some personal adjustment. 29 days, could be quite
a stretch.
--mikeb
In article <4c7bd0b3.02051...@posting.google.com>,
David
Huntington, a true story about the son of a white trapper and an indian
mother. out of print, but quite a read if you can latch onto a copy. Not
really much info about travelling in modern alaska, but very interesting.
David
"Jan Flora" <snow...@xyz.net> wrote in message
news:snowshoe-ABA6FC...@corp.supernews.com...
> Bzzzt.
>
> Michener's "Alaska" sucks. Read John McPhee's "Coming Into The Country,"
> if you want to read the best book written about Alaska, so far.
>
> (Michener's book is full of wrong info, and it doesn't give the weight to
> the construction of the oil pipeline the credit it deserves. The pipeline
> changed the face of Alaska forever, and, according to many Alaskans, not
> for the better. Statehood was the other thing that screwed Alaska up...)
>
> Jan
> Vosnesenka, Alaska
>
> >
Dian Robbins
but the sourdoughs could spell it so they went with the next best.
--
D L Robbinsnews:snowshoe-4D82C8...@corp.supernews.com...
> Ride the Green Tortoise. They came through Chicken, AK once. Those
> people were having *far* more fun than tourists are supposed to have!
>
> I used to tend bar in Chicken, Alaska, where we had an average of 12
> Gray Line/Holland America/etc. busses comes through every day. Those
> people weren't having all that much fun. But the Green Tortoise people
> had their own party going, so when they hit Chicken, they livened *our*
> party up. (And the resident party in Chicken is hard to beat! Chicken
> is a gold mining town. When folks come in off the creeks to play, they
> play hard.)
>
> Jan
>
>
> In article <ahi280$edm$1...@paperboy.getnet.net>,