Don't drink the water, on the planes that is!
Earl Evleth
"IS IT SAFE TO DRINK THE WATER"?
Here is a partial answer---no, on planes at least.
So far it is an American problem, but does
it stop at the border??
Earl
*****
Drinking Water Aboard Airliners Worsens
By JOHN HEILPRIN, Associated Press Writer
WASHINGTON - Drinking water aboard the nation's airliners is getting worse,
not better, despite government-ordered sanitation improvements, the
Environmental Protection Agency said Wednesday.
About one in six airliners in the latest round of tests conducted in
November and December had drinking water that failed to meet federal safety
standards, EPA said. Similar tests in August and September showed the water
in one in eight aircraft testing positive for coliform bacteria.
The latest round of testing produced positive results for presence of the
bacteria in 29 of 169 randomly selected passenger aircraft carrying domestic
and international passengers. The tests were done on water from galley water
taps and lavatory faucets on planes at 14 airports throughout the United
States.
The coliform bacteria ã usually harmless itself but an indicator of the
possible presence of other harmful organisms ã was found in the planes
ranging from small commuter aircraft to jumbo jets. None had E. coli
bacteria ( news -web sites ), which can cause gastrointestinal illness.
"It's an issue that's of concern," said Thomas V. Skinner, acting assistant
administrator for EPA's Office of Enforcement and Compliance Assurance.
"It's not an indication that anyone needs to panic."
Despite the increased rate of aircraft testing positive over a previous
round of testing, Skinner said he "would still maintain that the vast
majority of planes do not come up positive."
He said the government does not plan a third round of tests.
EPA's tests last August and September found coliform bacteria on 20 of the
158 randomly selected aircraft. Two planes then also tested positive for E.
coli bacteria, which can produce diarrhea and nausea. About 73,000 cases of
E. coli infection are reported in the United States each year.
EPA advised passengers with compromised immune systems or others concerned
to ask for canned or bottled beverages and refrain from drinking tea or
coffee unless made with bottled water.
Combining the two rounds of testing on 327 aircraft last year, EPA officials
noted that about 15 percent of the planes had been found with coliform
bacteria.
EPA and 12 major airlines agreed in November on a program aimed at improving
sanitation. It included more testing of aircraft. Airliners would be
disinfected within 24 hours if coliform bacteria were discovered, unless the
agency granted an extension because the plane was outside the United States.
Passengers would find signs posted in lavatories and galleys.
Signing agreements with EPA were Alaska Airlines, Aloha Airlines, American
Airlines, America West, ATA Airlines, Continental Airlines, Hawaiian
Airlines, JetBlue, Midwest Airlines, Northwest Airlines, United Airlines and
U.S. Airways.
Two additional airlines, Delta Airlines and Southwest Airlines, are
currently negotiating separate agreements with EPA.
___
John Bermont
> Many tourists ask about various countries
>
> "IS IT SAFE TO DRINK THE WATER"?
>
> Here is a partial answer---no, on planes at least.
>
> So far it is an American problem, but does
> it stop at the border??
>
> Earl
>
> *****
>
>
> Drinking Water Aboard Airliners Worsens
>
--
This story was first broken by Nancy Keates in the Wall Street Journal
in November of 2002. It was partially based on the amateur research of a
high school student. Nancy and her co-writer made a number of flights
and even found bug eggs in airplane water, which developed into maggots
when they got them home.
The EPA is always behind the curve, like the TSA, the FAA, the FDA, the
Federal Reserve, and all other government agencies in the USA, and every
country everywhere.
Travelers should have a beer or wine on board, or bring their own water.
John Bermont
------------------------------------------------------
* * * Mastering Independent Budget Travel * * *
http://www.enjoy-europe.com/
------------------------------------------------------
EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque)
John Bermont wrote:
> Earl Evleth wrote:
>
>> Many tourists ask about various countries
>>
>> "IS IT SAFE TO DRINK THE WATER"?
>>
>> Here is a partial answer---no, on planes at least.
>>
>> So far it is an American problem, but does
>> it stop at the border??
The only water I've ever been offered on an airplane was
either spring water or mineral water in a bottle, or sealed
in a serving-sized container as part of the meal service.
(I'm not sure where they get the water for their
coffee-makers, but since the water has to be hot enough to
make coffee, it seems pointless to worry about it!)
Calif Bill
"Earl Evleth" <evl...@wanadoo.fr> wrote in message
news:BE145B4D.30123%evl...@wanadoo.fr...
> Many tourists ask about various countries
>
> "IS IT SAFE TO DRINK THE WATER"?
>
> Here is a partial answer---no, on planes at least.
>
> So far it is an American problem, but does
> it stop at the border??
It is/was even more prevelant on non-US carriers according to the EPA. The
agreements are only with US carriers as the EPA has not power over foreign
flag carriers.
Earl Evleth
souri...@hotmail.duh wrote on 20/01/05 8:11:
> To kill certain micro-organisms the water has to be kept at 100°C for several
> minutes. I doubt they do it.
I think micropore filters will keep the bacteria out. Viruses are another
matter.
For me, the mystery is the source of the contaimination.
Earl
Jack Campin - bogus address
> "IS IT SAFE TO DRINK THE WATER"?
> Here is a partial answer---no, on planes at least.
> So far it is an American problem, but does it stop at the border??
It isn't just about drinking the stuff, nor is just planes, nor is it
just the US. I once got a week of diarrhoea from cleaning my teeth/
denture in the water on a British sleeper train.
============== j-c ====== @ ====== purr . demon . co . uk ==============
Jack Campin: 11 Third St, Newtongrange EH22 4PU, Scotland | tel 0131 660 4760
<http://www.purr.demon.co.uk/jack/> for CD-ROMs and free | fax 0870 0554 975
stuff: Scottish music, food intolerance, & Mac logic fonts | mob 07800 739 557
Mxsmanic
> For me, the mystery is the source of the contaimination.
The problem is that the reservoirs are almost never cleaned, although
they are periodically filled. Eventually bad stuff builds up inside.
Flight attendants are usually careful to avoid drinking any of the water
from the aircraft's reservoirs.
--
Transpose hotmail and mxsmanic in my e-mail address to reach me directly.
Mxsmanic
> I once got a week of diarrhoea from cleaning my teeth/
> denture in the water on a British sleeper train.
Most of the trains I've been on in Europe have had a little sign making
it clear that the water in the cars is not for drinking, IIRC.
S Viemeister
>
> Jack Campin - bogus address writes:
>
> > I once got a week of diarrhoea from cleaning my teeth/
> > denture in the water on a British sleeper train.
>
> Most of the trains I've been on in Europe have had a little sign making
> it clear that the water in the cars is not for drinking, IIRC.
>
Every time I've taken the sleeper to London, bottled water has been
provided in the cabin. It's easy to remember not to _drink_ the tapwater,
but very easy to unthinkingly brush your teeth with it.
Sheila
Jack Campin - bogus address
>> denture in the water on a British sleeper train.
> Most of the trains I've been on in Europe have had a little
> sign making it clear that the water in the cars is not for
> drinking, IIRC.
Yes, the British ones do too. But they don't say why not; my
guess was that it was chemical contamination (in which case
the traces you'd be exposed to when cleaning your teeth would
be insignificant) - I guessed wrong.
Given that level of bacterial contamination, the water is
unfit for anything - it wouldn't be safe to wash in either.
Mxsmanic
> Yes, the British ones do too. But they don't say why not; my
> guess was that it was chemical contamination (in which case
> the traces you'd be exposed to when cleaning your teeth would
> be insignificant) - I guessed wrong.
I don't think the reservoirs are filled from drinking-water supplies.
> Given that level of bacterial contamination, the water is
> unfit for anything - it wouldn't be safe to wash in either.
True.
Mxsmanic
> Yes - but Jack didn't actually _drink_ that water!
Brushing one's teeth with it is the same thing.
EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque)
Mxsmanic wrote:
> Jack Campin - bogus address writes:
>
>
>>I once got a week of diarrhoea from cleaning my teeth/
>>denture in the water on a British sleeper train.
>
>
> Most of the trains I've been on in Europe have had a little sign making
> it clear that the water in the cars is not for drinking, IIRC.
Some people apparently don't make the connection between "do
not drink" and "do not use for anything you put in your mouth".
>
EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque)
Magda wrote:
> On Wed, 19 Jan 2005 18:42:48 -0800, in rec.travel.europe, "EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque)"
> <evg...@earthlink.net> arranged some electrons, so they looked like this :
>
> ...
> ... The only water I've ever been offered on an airplane was
> ... either spring water or mineral water in a bottle, or sealed
> ... in a serving-sized container as part of the meal service.
>
> Spring/mineral water are not exactly sterile, either.
>
> ... (I'm not sure where they get the water for their
> ... coffee-makers, but since the water has to be hot enough to
> ... make coffee, it seems pointless to worry about it!)
>
> To kill certain micro-organisms the water has to be kept at 100°C for several minutes. I
> doubt they do it.
Oh well, as a physician friend used to remark "everyone has
to ingest a certain amount of 'dirt' in a lifetime". How
can our immune systems develop if they are never challenged?
>
Jack Campin - bogus address
>>> denture in the water on a British sleeper train.
>> Most of the trains I've been on in Europe have had a little sign
>> making it clear that the water in the cars is not for drinking,
> not drink" and "do not use for anything you put in your mouth".
Nor should they, or nobody would ever buy mouthwash.
Train and plane operators could keep their water sterile (and
undrinkable) by adding substances like peroxides to it. I'd
assumed that was exactly what they did, rather than have a
festering culture of diluted birdshit in an algal-coated roof
tank.
I'm now wondering what airlines use to make ice cubes out of.
In a lot of places that can be a vector for food poisoning
microbes.
TCS
Not really. How about if the water was literally brown? Would you then
think "I can't drink that.. but I'll rinse my mouth with it"?
Mxsmanic
> How can Jack be certain that it was doing this that caused the
> problem?
He can't.
Mxsmanic
> In England the tap water is filtered, chlorinated and potable.
Maybe, but that doesn't matter if it's not the source of the water
supplied on trains.
Mxsmanic
> I'm now wondering what airlines use to make ice cubes out of.
> In a lot of places that can be a vector for food poisoning
> microbes.
I imagine the ice cubes are made on the ground from drinking water.
Padraig Breathnach
>nitram writes:
>
>> How can Jack be certain that it was doing this that caused the
>> problem?
>
>He can't.
He can. He might be wrong, but he can be certain.
--
PB
The return address has been MUNGED
Padraig Breathnach
>Jack Campin - bogus address writes:
>
>> I'm now wondering what airlines use to make ice cubes out of.
>> In a lot of places that can be a vector for food poisoning
>> microbes.
>
>I imagine the ice cubes are made on the ground from drinking water.
Do they not scrape them off the wings?
Deep Foiled Malls
<bo...@purr.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>> Many tourists ask about various countries
>> "IS IT SAFE TO DRINK THE WATER"?
>> Here is a partial answer---no, on planes at least.
>> So far it is an American problem, but does it stop at the border??
>
>It isn't just about drinking the stuff, nor is just planes, nor is it
>just the US. I once got a week of diarrhoea from cleaning my teeth/
>denture in the water on a British sleeper train.
There is no way you could know that for sure. It could have come from
any of number of places, and the incubation time would have assured
you could not trace it with any certainty.
--
---
DFM - http://www.deepfriedmars.com
---
--
S Viemeister
gold/light brown, being drawn from peaty sources.
Sheila
Timothy J. Lee
nitram <m...@privacy.net> wrote:
>On Thu, 20 Jan 2005 21:15:34 +0100, Mxsmanic <mxsm...@hotmail.com>
>wrote:
>>nitram writes:
>>> In England the tap water is filtered, chlorinated and potable.
>>
>>Maybe, but that doesn't matter if it's not the source of the water
>>supplied on trains.
>
Safe water put into a contaminated tank becomes unsafe water. That
would apply to either an airplane or a train.
--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Timothy J. Lee
Unsolicited bulk or commercial email is not welcome.
No warranty of any kind is provided with this message.
Jack Campin - bogus address
>> just the US. I once got a week of diarrhoea from cleaning my teeth/
>> denture in the water on a British sleeper train.
> There is no way you could know that for sure. It could have come from
> any of number of places, and the incubation time would have assured
> you could not trace it with any certainty.
My girlfriend does food toxicity detective work for a living.
I do know the methodology, as does anyone working in public
health epidemiology. Sometimes it's hard to tell, sometimes
it's easy. This was one of the easy ones.
Jack Campin - bogus address
>> think "I can't drink that.. but I'll rinse my mouth with it"?
> Until the last couple of years, the tapwater in my village was pale
> gold/light brown, being drawn from peaty sources.
In most of the Scottish Highlands it's like that - there are sporadic
cases of water-borne giardiasis in Scotland but they don't correlate
with water colour. If anything the terpenes in peat-brown water act
as microbicides. (The only time I've had giardia it was from the tap
water in Urfa, which looked and tasted as good as that in Edinburgh).
St. Petersburg is one place where the water really is as evil as it
looks. A friend of mine showed me a picture of her bath there - it
looked as though she was about to bathe in beer. And it's heaving
with giardia.
S Viemeister
>
> In most of the Scottish Highlands it's like that - there are sporadic
> cases of water-borne giardiasis in Scotland but they don't correlate
> with water colour. If anything the terpenes in peat-brown water act
> as microbicides. (The only time I've had giardia it was from the tap
> water in Urfa, which looked and tasted as good as that in Edinburgh).
>
The old water supply was generally fine, but we did very occasionally have
problems after flooding, when there were a lot of animals on the hill.
Cryptosporidium is no fun.
Sheila
EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque)
Jack Campin - bogus address wrote:
>
> I'm now wondering what airlines use to make ice cubes out of.
> In a lot of places that can be a vector for food poisoning
> microbes.
They probably buy them from the same caterering outfits that
supply their meals. (Sacks of pre-frozen ice-cubes are
easier to store than a multiplicity of ice-cube trays.)
EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque)
Padraig Breathnach wrote:
> Mxsmanic <mxsm...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>>nitram writes:
>>
>>
>>>How can Jack be certain that it was doing this that caused the
>>>problem?
>>
>>He can't.
>
>
> He can. He might be wrong, but he can be certain.
As witness Mixi's certainty about nearly everything, whether
he's right or wrong!
>
EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque)
S Viemeister wrote:
Used to happen in rural Minnesota when I was a girl, too -
the water was from deep wells, and there was no peat in the
soil, but the pumps were sometimes rusty, so the water was
not only tinted by them but tasted of iron, as well.
Perfectly wholesome, but it took a while to get used to the
taste.
>
> Sheila
>
EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque)
nitram wrote:
> On Thu, 20 Jan 2005 22:55:33 GMT, Deep Foiled Malls
> <deepfreudmoors@eITmISaACTUALLYiREAL!l.nu> wrote:
>>There is no way you could know that for sure. It could have come from
>>any of number of places, and the incubation time would have assured
>>you could not trace it with any certainty.
>
>
> Maybe Jack dropped his teeth in the pan. It happens.
LOL! You remind me of the woman on my cat newsgroup who
mislaid her "partial" (bridgework). She discovered that the
pair of mischievous kittens who were making her life
"interesting" had found it, and buried it in their litterbox!
Mxsmanic
> Where else would it come from?
Systems that deliver relatively clean but non-potable water, such as
exist in many cities (including Paris). Water from these networks is
cheaper than water from the drinking-water networks. It's pretty clean
but not necessarily safe to drink. It may simply be clarified river
water or something like that.
Mxsmanic
> otherwise?
Conceivably an ice machine could be installed on an aircraft, although I
don't believe this is actually done. Completely transparent ice is
harder to produce than cloudy ice, also.
Deep Foiled Malls
<bo...@purr.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>> It isn't just about drinking the stuff, nor is just planes, nor is it
>>> just the US. I once got a week of diarrhoea from cleaning my teeth/
>>> denture in the water on a British sleeper train.
>> There is no way you could know that for sure. It could have come from
>> any of number of places, and the incubation time would have assured
>> you could not trace it with any certainty.
>
>My girlfriend does food toxicity detective work for a living.
>I do know the methodology, as does anyone working in public
>health epidemiology. Sometimes it's hard to tell, sometimes
>it's easy. This was one of the easy ones.
You took a sample of the water and tested it?
Calif Bill
"nitram" <m...@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:qh40v0tltqjp358e4...@4ax.com...
> >
> >> In England the tap water is filtered, chlorinated and potable.
> >
> >Maybe, but that doesn't matter if it's not the source of the water
> >supplied on trains.
>
> Martin
After it sets in the tanks as week or so, the clorine is gone. Then little
bugs can live the good life.
Mxsmanic
> but there isn't such a system in UK AFAIK.
The UK is a big place. Urban areas are increasingly using water
reclamation and dual distribution systems all over the world to conserve
supplies of fresh water.
The Reids
>> In England the tap water is filtered, chlorinated and potable.
>
>Maybe, but that doesn't matter if it's not the source of the water
>supplied on trains.
where else would they get it? There isn't a non potable water
supply in UK as far as I know.
--
Mike Reid
Wasdale-Thames path-London-photos "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk" <-- you can email us@ this site
Eat-walk-Spain "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk" <-- dontuse@ all, it's a spamtrap
The Reids
>> but there isn't such a system in UK AFAIK.
>
>The UK is a big place. Urban areas are increasingly using water
>reclamation and dual distribution systems all over the world to conserve
>supplies of fresh water.
Thatcher suggested lowering the standards, but we never did, one
of the few cut price Thatcherisms we didnt get lumbered with. I
dont there are any dual systems in UK.
Frank F. Matthews
nitram wrote:
> On Thu, 20 Jan 2005 13:28:42 -0500, S Viemeister
> Our tap water is pumped out of the local dunes it also is
> gold/lightbrown. It is potable.
It may even keep potable quite long. The highly tannic swamp water from
the swamps of South Carolina was used by the early US navy for long storage.
The filter that I use to improve the taste of water is very specific
that the purified water must be refrigerated for storage.
Frank F. Matthews
The Reids wrote:
> Following up to Mxsmanic
>
>
>>>In England the tap water is filtered, chlorinated and potable.
>>
>>Maybe, but that doesn't matter if it's not the source of the water
>>supplied on trains.
>
>
> where else would they get it? There isn't a non potable water
> supply in UK as far as I know.
Unless it is well fortified with preserving chemicals potable water can
quickly become non potable.
John Bermont
Mxsmanic wrote:
> S Viemeister writes:
>
>
>>Yes - but Jack didn't actually _drink_ that water!
>
>
> Brushing one's teeth with it is the same thing.
>
Brush with vodka. It kills all the germs.
--
------------------------------------------------------
* * * Mastering Independent Budget Travel * * *
http://www.enjoy-europe.com/
------------------------------------------------------
Frank F. Matthews
nitram wrote:
> Yes
>
> Britain chlorinates water for this reason.
But, unless you seal it off airtight, the clorination will drop off.
That can be a problem in aircraft tanks. The water is fine when
refilled but then goes bad if it stands around.
Julie
>If they knew how many Brit.s get cancer of the mouth by using alcohol
>based mouthwash, nobody would buy mouth wash.
How many?
--
Julie S
Mxsmanic
> Brush with vodka. It kills all the germs.
Ethanol in beverages isn't strong enough to do that.
Mxsmanic
> Unless it is well fortified with preserving chemicals potable water can
> quickly become non potable.
That depends on the type of container in which it is kept.
Frank F. Matthews
Mxsmanic wrote:
> John Bermont writes:
>
>
>>Brush with vodka. It kills all the germs.
>
>
> Ethanol in beverages isn't strong enough to do that.
>
So putting some wine in the water to help prevent disease was just a
fantasy? 40% alcohol won't do the trick. You've got some strong bugs.
Frank F. Matthews
Mxsmanic wrote:
> Frank F. Matthews writes:
>
>
>>Unless it is well fortified with preserving chemicals potable water can
>>quickly become non potable.
>
>
> That depends on the type of container in which it is kept.
>
Not really. There are usually a small number of bugs around which will
multiply rapidly. Even with an airtight container I think that there
would be enough dissolved oxygen for a good bug crop. If you start with
preserving chemicals or a weird environment like very tannic water you
are OK but water with no preservatives I don't think so.
Miss L. Toe
"Mxsmanic" <mxsm...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:8tr2v0pessqelptii...@4ax.com...
> Frank F. Matthews writes:
>
> > Unless it is well fortified with preserving chemicals potable water can
> > quickly become non potable.
>
> That depends on the type of container in which it is kept.
>
and in the right container you can heat it in a microwave for 3 minutes and
watch water explode.
Mxsmanic
> So putting some wine in the water to help prevent disease was just a
> fantasy?
Yes. It's a common misconception.
Mxsmanic
> Not really. There are usually a small number of bugs around which will
> multiply rapidly. Even with an airtight container I think that there
> would be enough dissolved oxygen for a good bug crop.
Explain how UHT milk can stay fresh on the shelf for six months, then.
The Reids
>>>Maybe, but that doesn't matter if it's not the source of the water
>>>supplied on trains.
>>
>>
>> where else would they get it? There isn't a non potable water
>> supply in UK as far as I know.
>
>
>Unless it is well fortified with preserving chemicals potable water can
>quickly become non potable.
Agreed, just wished to exclude the "source" red herring.
The Reids
>> Not really. There are usually a small number of bugs around which will
>> multiply rapidly. Even with an airtight container I think that there
>> would be enough dissolved oxygen for a good bug crop.
>
>Explain how UHT milk can stay fresh on the shelf for six months, then.
the answer is in your question.
The Reids
>>>If they knew how many Brit.s get cancer of the mouth by using alcohol
>>>based mouthwash, nobody would buy mouth wash.
>>
>>How many?
>
>Much more than anywhere else in the EU.
any numbers? Compared with alcohol drinkers?
Keith W
"nitram" <m...@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:gve4v0t492fv61lpl...@4ax.com...
> On Sat, 22 Jan 2005 11:30:43 +0000, The Reids
>
> OK I have googled and I suspect that my Dutch dentist is wrong.
> The 4000 fatal cases of cancer of the mouth in UK are claimed to be
> caused by alcohol and tobacco abuse.
> --
> Martin
Correct. There were some old studies that seemed to
indicate a link but later analysis showed that most
wash wash users were heavy smokers/drinkers
and that was what was causing the problems.
Keith
John Bermont
> John Bermont writes:
>
>
>>Brush with vodka. It kills all the germs.
>
>
> Ethanol in beverages isn't strong enough to do that.
>
are not exposing yourself to the critters in the airline water tanks
when you brush with vodka. It's also a great mouthwash, aftershave,
disinfectant, and tastes good (to some of us).
I think that the airlines should post "non potable" on their toilet
spigots just as the railroads in Europe do.
Frank F. Matthews
John Bermont wrote:
> Mxsmanic wrote:
>
>> John Bermont writes:
>>
>>
>>> Brush with vodka. It kills all the germs.
>>
>>
>>
>> Ethanol in beverages isn't strong enough to do that.
>>
> Vodka (40% distilled ethanol) will kill darn near anything. OTOH, you
> are not exposing yourself to the critters in the airline water tanks
> when you brush with vodka. It's also a great mouthwash, aftershave,
> disinfectant, and tastes good (to some of us).
>
> I think that the airlines should post "non potable" on their toilet
> spigots just as the railroads in Europe do.
I have a vague memory that some of the lines do just that.
Frank F. Matthews
Mxsmanic wrote:
> Frank F. Matthews writes:
>
>
>>Not really. There are usually a small number of bugs around which will
>>multiply rapidly. Even with an airtight container I think that there
>>would be enough dissolved oxygen for a good bug crop.
>
>
> Explain how UHT milk can stay fresh on the shelf for six months, then.
>
Very careful sterilization.
Frank F. Matthews
Miss L. Toe wrote:
Not surprising in a closed container. The fun is that you can do it in
an open container.
Mxsmanic
> Very careful sterilization.
As opposed to careless sterilization?
What prevents the same from being done to water?
Julie
>On Fri, 21 Jan 2005 20:20:55 +0000, Julie <j4j...@NOSPAM.clara.co.uk>
>wrote:
>Much more than anywhere else in the EU.
And how many got mouth cancer elsewhere in the EU?
--
Julie S
EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque)
Miss L. Toe wrote:
Sort of like eggs in their shells? :-) (But not quite so
messy.)
Miss L. Toe
"EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque)" <evg...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:csual...@news2.newsguy.com...
Except you can do it in an open container.
EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque)
The Reids wrote:
> Following up to Mxsmanic
>
>
>>>Not really. There are usually a small number of bugs around which will
>>>multiply rapidly. Even with an airtight container I think that there
>>>would be enough dissolved oxygen for a good bug crop.
>>
>>Explain how UHT milk can stay fresh on the shelf for six months, then.
>
>
> the answer is in your question.
What's "UHT" milk? What we call "ultra-pasteurized" in the
U.S.?
EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque)
John Bermont wrote:
> Mxsmanic wrote:
>
>> John Bermont writes:
>>
>>
>>> Brush with vodka. It kills all the germs.
>>
>>
>>
>> Ethanol in beverages isn't strong enough to do that.
>>
> Vodka (40% distilled ethanol) will kill darn near anything. OTOH, you
> are not exposing yourself to the critters in the airline water tanks
> when you brush with vodka. It's also a great mouthwash, aftershave,
> disinfectant, and tastes good (to some of us).
>
> I think that the airlines should post "non potable" on their toilet
> spigots just as the railroads in Europe do.
And perhaps eliminate the dispenser of disposable paper cups?
Mxsmanic
> What's "UHT" milk? What we call "ultra-pasteurized" in the
> U.S.?
UHT milk is heated at high temperature for two minutes or so,
sterilizing it. It requires no refrigeration thereafter, as long as it
is kept in an airtight container. Usually it is sold in Tetra Brik
packages, very sturdy cartons that are completely airtight.
UHT milk has a fairly open shelf life (months at room temperature, much
longer in the refrigerator), although it does have a slightly "cooked"
taste compared to ordinary pasteurized milk. Because the cartons are
still not quite as airtight as cans, it doesn't have the indefinite
shelf life of canned, sterilized milk.
The Reids
>> Very careful sterilization.
>
>As opposed to careless sterilization?
>
>What prevents the same from being done to water?
the fact that houses don't have milk taps.
Frank F. Matthews
Mxsmanic wrote:
> Frank F. Matthews writes:
>
>
>>Very careful sterilization.
>
>
> As opposed to careless sterilization?
>
> What prevents the same from being done to water?
>
Nothing. It's just that the airlines & trains aren't doing that. They
don't even clean the storage units that often.
Frank F. Matthews
Miss L. Toe wrote:
Of course the container that matters for the eggs is the membrane around
the yolk. The shell doesn't matter.
EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque)
Magda wrote:
> On Sat, 22 Jan 2005 11:50:22 -0800, in rec.travel.europe, "EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque)"
> <evg...@earthlink.net> arranged some electrons, so they looked like this :
>
> ...
> ...
> ... The Reids wrote:
> ...
> ... > Following up to Mxsmanic
> ... >
> ... >
> ... >>>Not really. There are usually a small number of bugs around which will
> ... >>>multiply rapidly. Even with an airtight container I think that there
> ... >>>would be enough dissolved oxygen for a good bug crop.
> ... >>
> ... >>Explain how UHT milk can stay fresh on the shelf for six months, then.
> ... >
> ... >
> ... > the answer is in your question.
> ...
> ... What's "UHT" milk? What we call "ultra-pasteurized" in the
> ... U.S.?
>
> Ultra High Temperature.
Yes, that's apparently the same thing. The UK has had
"long-life" milk for quite some time, I think (judging by
references to it in some of the novels I've read), but I've
only seen "ultra-pasteurized" in the US for the past couple
of years. (Mostly on "organic" milk products - although
some dairies extend it to cream.)
>
EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque)
Frank F. Matthews wrote:
I beg to differ! I have a gadget that pierces the membrane
through the shell prior to cooking (so your hard-boiled eggs
will peel easily). I admit I've never tried to cook an egg
so-treated in the microwave, but I assume the shell would
burst for the same reason a closed container of water would
do so - too much steam, too quickly, with nowhere to escape.
(Used to happen to the tanks of domestic water heaters, too,
in the days before thermostatic controls.) I'm sure I'm not
the only one who has had lids pop off of "microwave-safe"
casseroles, for the same reason - the lid, however loosely
laid on top, did not allow for adequate venting, and the
steam had to go somewhere.
The Reids
>> ... What's "UHT" milk? What we call "ultra-pasteurized" in the
>> ... U.S.?
>>
>> Ultra High Temperature.
>
>Yes, that's apparently the same thing. The UK has had
>"long-life" milk for quite some time, I think (judging by
>references to it in some of the novels I've read),
there used to be something called sterilised milk, didn't taste
too good.
S Viemeister
> there used to be something called sterilised milk, didn't taste
> too good.
>
It's still around. Our local shop has it (in glass bottles), on the shelf
next to the boxes of long-life milk.
Sheila
Mxsmanic
> there used to be something called sterilised milk, didn't taste
> too good.
There still is, in cans. Very long shelf life.
Frank F. Matthews
EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque) wrote:
I guess that all I can guarantee is that eggs without shells but with
the yolk membrane complete will detonate in the microwave. I thought
that I had discovered a counter example. Unfortunately when I removed
the eggs from the microwave and set them down in the sink the shock was
just what they needed to detonate. Cleanup would have been much simpler
if I had waited a few more seconds for detonation in the microwave.
If you do a single small piercing of both the shell and the membrane I
don't know if that would suffice to relieve the pressure and prevent
detonation. Experiment away and tell us.
EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque)
Frank F. Matthews wrote:
>
> If you do a single small piercing of both the shell and the membrane I
> don't know if that would suffice to relieve the pressure and prevent
> detonation. Experiment away and tell us.
Not unless you volunteer to clean my microwave after those
experiments! :-)
Richard
news:4oxId.59679$Z%.3859@fe1.texas.rr.com...
> John Bermont wrote:
> > I think that the airlines should post "non potable" on
> > their toilet spigots just as the railroads in Europe do.
> I have a vague memory that some of the lines do just that.
Air Canada does.
Richard