***ITALY*** Tour vs. Independent for 1st
Jari Honkanen
kruss...@aol.com (KRusso6984) wrote:
>Subject: Re: ***ITALY*** Tour vs. Independent for 1st trip?
>From: aa4...@freenet.lorain.oberlin.edu (Madelyn Dinnerstein)
>Date: Thu, 7 Mar 1996 02:59:35 GMT
>Message-ID: <1996Mar7.0...@freenet.lorain.oberlin.edu>
>In a previous article, all...@i2020.net (Allison Williams) says:
>>jmack...@aol.com (Jmackattak) wrote:
>>
>>>I am planning my first trip to Italy for July 1996 (my first trip to
>>>Europe!). It is our honeymoon.
>>>>
>>>Is it worth it to go on the tour for the convenice of it all? I am
>>>looking at a tour company called EIS (European Incoming Services). Any
>>>suggestions.
>>
>When my husband & I went to Europe last May for the 1st time, we took a
>COSMOS budget tour & it was great!! Granted, you don't have a LOT of free
>time, but you're with other people plus your tour guide who speaks the
>language.
>In my opinion, for a 1st trip a tour is the way to go.
Personally, I would only take a tour to Pompeii.
Take 3 days in Rome using the bus for transportation with a map.
Go to Florence via the train for 2 days (don't need a map)
Then to Venice via the train for 3 days - maximum. Definitely need a
map here. Travel via the Waterbus to Venice Beach and everywhere.
Spend at least a day at Venice Beach. Be patient here because of the
stikes. We had a 24 hour train strike and a 10 minute Waterbus
strike.
Waterbuses are VERY CROWDED but it's part of the life there.
For us, backpacking was the way to go. You don't feel the bag and you
have more freedom and ease of movement to get from one place to the
next.
When we went in July it was very HOT and you'll need plenty of
mosquito repellent! Pack some snacks too. It was nice to have fruit
roll ups and juice boxes with us in our rooms and when we were walking
around. Food isn't as luxurious in these foreign countries as it is
at home in the U.S..
Carol
Vernon E. Wilson
In <4o7uoe$f...@feenix.metronet.com> ja...@OdinTS.com (Jari Honkanen)
writes:
>kruss...@aol.com (KRusso6984) wrote:
>
>>Subject: Re: ***ITALY*** Tour vs. Independent for 1st trip?
>>From: aa4...@freenet.lorain.oberlin.edu (Madelyn Dinnerstein)
>>Date: Thu, 7 Mar 1996 02:59:35 GMT
>>Message-ID: <1996Mar7.0...@freenet.lorain.oberlin.edu>
>
>
>>In a previous article, all...@i2020.net (Allison Williams) says:
>
>>>jmack...@aol.com (Jmackattak) wrote:
>>>
>>>>I am planning my first trip to Italy for July 1996 (my first trip
to
>>>>Europe!). It is our honeymoon.
>>>>>
>>>>Is it worth it to go on the tour for the convenice of it all? I am
>>>>looking at a tour company called EIS (European Incoming Services).
Any
>>>>suggestions.
>>>
>
>at home in the U.S..
>
>Carol
>
About which foreign countries are you talking? IN ITALY FOOD IS TO DIE
FOR! If there is one thing of which you can be sure in Italy it is the
food! Of course you can have a bad meal there too, once in a great
while, but if you prepare yourself about what to eat, the wines, the
culture, etc. you won't have any bad experiences. CIAO! Enjoy yourself!
Gianfranco Russu http://www.itlgroup.com
eyl...@ctrvax.vanderbilt.edu
> >
> >
> >>In a previous article, all...@i2020.net (Allison Williams) says:
> >
> >>>jmack...@aol.com (Jmackattak) wrote:
> >>>
> >>>>I am planning my first trip to Italy for July 1996 (my first trip
> to
> >>>>Europe!). It is our honeymoon.
> >>>>>
> >>>>Is it worth it to go on the tour for the convenice of it all? I am
> >>>>looking at a tour company called EIS (European Incoming Services).
> Any
> >>>>suggestions.
> >>>
IMHO the only reason to go on a tour in Europe is if you are elderly
and genuinely need to be carried from place to place. It is simple to
plan and enjoy your own trip and for a honeymoon to be marching around
after some moron waving an unbrella and herding 30 doddering tourists trying
to avoid having a real experience would be unromantic to say the least.
Look for romantic hotels and spots in guidebooks, book your own and spend
a few days in a handful of places. Wandering the path along the med between'
Cinque Terre villages would be fun, a day or two on an island in Lago
Magiore is romantic, rent a cottage in the tuscan countryside and visit
hill towns and villages. Spend a few evenings in the campo in siena -- my
favorite town for romantic evening strolls.
Travel in Europe is easy and can be fabulous if you are in control of your
own days and nights -- which you are not on a tour.
j
Vernon E. Wilson
In <eylerjs-0706...@129.59.196.38>
been and you don't speak the language, you can run into all kinds of
problems which can be unpleasant, at the very least, or, at worst, can
ruin your vacation completely. Not a good start for a honeymoon! I
would prefer to go on a tour where there are only 15/20 people and
where you are guided by two tour managers, one of whom is an Italian
native and the other an American art professor. This way you would have
a great introduction to Italy (art, art history, history of the
country, legends, cuisine, wine, etc.), you would be with a very small
group of interesting people. You would be safe. Your cost would be the
same (or less) than traveling alone and you would have a lot more time
for romantic moments because a tour like the one I described would
allow you also quite a bit of free time and you would only eat with the
other travelers at breakfast and during very few dinners. Of course I
am "slightly" biased because I am describing one of "our" tours... on
the other hand that is, honestly what they are and more. You could
also, after the 13 day tour, stay another week on your own in Italy.
The tour managers would help you to do that and you would enjoy the
country a lot more because, by this time, you would have received a
great introduction to Italy and you would feel safer and more
knowledgeable.
CIAO! BUON VIAGGIO!
Gianfranco Russu http://www.itlgroup.com
esiena
Hi,
I've been to Italy 3 times- one all by my little self (female) and never
felt unsafe. The 2nd time I was with a friend and we used the trains and
busses to get around. The third time we rented a car and went off he beaten
track to little tiny towns in the middle of nowhere- again very safe.
I enjoy trememdously the opportunity to experience a place through my own
eyes and ears. Traveling independently allows for more flexibility- if we
awoke tired we slept. If we were hungry we stopped to eat. If we wanted to
skip a town we did.
We never felt left out in terms of learning art or history- there are
plenty of day tours or excursions available. I would recommend arriving at
a place and taking the city tour first thing- this gives a great
geographical overview of the city and the history base to know what you're
looking at. Also pick the day-tour operator's brain and ask for good
restaurants or places to go etc. Then spend the rest of the time enjoying
yourself on your own.
Why see Italy from the confines of a bus? You get a better personal
experience learning how to use the subway, shopping/bargaining for fruit at
a vendor stand, 'discovering' that special little romantic restaurant all
on your own.
It's fun to buy a Let's Go guide (or Frommer's if you're rich) and plan
your own trip together. Evenings after dinner, heads bent over the table,
highlighting the places you wish to experience, speculating on what it
might be like...Now THAT"S romantic!
>after some moron waving an unbrella and herding 30 doddering tourists"
Is exactly right! NOT romantic!
I've never had any difficulty negotiating a foreign country after I've
spent time learning about the places I want to go, and researching a bit
before I get there. If you feel better, have a Tour for the first city
you'll be in. You know- "Three days in Rome" or something like that. That
way you get your feet wet and later you can strike out on your own.
Anyway- have fun! Italy is my favorite place in the world!
esiena
eyl...@ctrvax.vanderbilt.edu
In article <4padvm$b...@dfw-ixnews2.ix.netcom.com>,
itlg...@ix.netcom.com(Vernon E. Wilson) wrote:
> In <eylerjs-0706...@129.59.196.38>
> eyl...@ctrvax.vanderbilt.edu writes:
> >
> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >>In a previous article, all...@i2020.net (Allison Williams) says:
> >> >
> >> >>>jmack...@aol.com (Jmackattak) wrote:
> >> >>>
> >> >>>>I am planning my first trip to Italy for July 1996 (my first
> trip
> >> to
> >> >>>>Europe!). It is our honeymoon.
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>Is it worth it to go on the tour for the convenice of it all? I
> am
> >> >>>>looking at a tour company called EIS (European Incoming
> Services).
> >> Any
> >> >>>>suggestions.
> >> >>>
> >
> >IMHO the only reason to go on a tour in Europe is if you are elderly
> >and genuinely need to be carried from place to place. It is simple to
> >plan and enjoy your own trip and for a honeymoon to be marching around
> >after some moron waving an unbrella and herding 30 doddering tourists
Well of course you recommend tours YOU ARE SELLING THEM !!!! No young
healthy American needs a nursemaid to get to know France or Italy or
the UK. Tours are for the unadventureous and incompetent, the elderly
or the fearful. And yes, you often save a little money as well -- eating
your ravioli with tomatoe sauce with 20 other nervous nellies. The idea
of actually joining a tour for a honeymoon is downright creepy -- but
jedem das seine.
e
e
marv
any advise on what to see or where to eat in venice roma or florence
>And I disagree. My honeymoon began in Bangkok and the ralationship has
>lasted through most of Europe and bits of the US with short trips to
>Bali and etc. I reckon that I had an advantage as an Australian
>travelling in Europe. My efforts using French, Italian and German
>were not allways successful but they were mostly well received.
>Colleen McLean
Jo Beichler
There is another alternative to a tour. Many tour operators offer hosted
programs - they will book your hotels for you in a specific order,
provide transportation from the airport and between cities, and leave the
sightseeing up to you. For heaven's sake, for a honeymoon - go see a
travel agent who specializes in Europe. Travel agents don't cost
anything, and they can help you (and yes - I am one). Also, if you are
going to Europe, you need your first night hotel waiting for you - you'll
be tired, especially after all the stress of getting married. And
nothing beats knowing that someone will pick you up at the airport and
get you to the hotel when you first arrive after a long, mostly sleepless
overnight flight.
I'll be glad to answer any questions by e-mail, but you do need to decide
your priorities for where you're going - and your budget. There are lots
of good alternatives for Italy and the dollar is strong there, and you
can have a wonderful romantic time without it costing a fortune. Best of
luck.
Jo Beichler
Vernon E. Wilson
In <eylerjs-0906...@129.59.196.38>
You have just insulted tens of thousands of tour goers who are
certainly NOT just unadventurous, incompetent, elderly and fearful as
you (VERY, VERY RUDELY) call them! GET OFF YOUR SOAP BOX AND TRY TO
KEEP AN OPEN MIND! Again, I think the solution is in a compromise: a
small tour and some extra vacation time on your own. A lot of young,
healthy Americans go to Italy and see just the obvious sights, learn
very little, and (sometimes) have awful experiences. They never get to
see the Italy the Italians live in and they certainly never get to talk
with and understand the Italians (who are just as interesting as their
country) as they often do with an Italian native (like me) for a tour
manager. They never get to see jewels like Bevagna, Panicale, Pienza,
Camogli. Also, I recommend the good restaurants and the good food, and
wine (our tourists eat on their own most of the time) as opposed, for
example, to the unimaginative, boring and tasteless meals (specially
prepared for them) that Americans are getting on some of the large
group tours and, very often, they get on their own because they don't
speak the language and they are afraid of leaving the heavy touristed
areas where they feel safer. TRY TO ANSWER WITHOUT INSULTING PEOPLE!
Vernon E. Wilson
In <4ph28h$8...@shore.shore.net> Jo Beichler <lati...@shore.net>
writes:
Unfortunately, most of the time, travel agents know very little (or
nothing) of the country where they are booking rooms for you. They
usually book rooms via their computer system in the hotels where they
get the most commission from. They, very rarely, speak any foreign
languages (or understand the culture) and will, mostly, book you on a
Globus or Cosmos tour because they get the higher commission and are
the easiest to sell. You stand a much better chance of enjoying
yourselves if you study about Italy on your own for a few months before
you go (a lot of FREE literature can be had from the Italian Tourist
Board in Los Angeles). You can also pick the hotels that fit your needs
(money wise and from a romantic point of view) from some of the many
good tourist guides (Frommer's, etc.) If you have very little time or
no time at all you may want to contact a small group tour company, book
a tour with them and have them organize some time for you alone after
the tour itself to enjoy Italy the most for the least money and time
(and trouble).
Peter Mlynek
itlg...@ix.netcom.com(Vernon E. Wilson) wrote:
> eyl...@ctrvax.vanderbilt.edu writes:
> >IMHO the only reason to go on a tour in Europe is if you
> >are elderly and genuinely need to be carried from place
> > to place. It is simple to plan and enjoy your own trip
> > and for a honeymoon to be marching around after some
> > moron waving an unbrella and herding 30 doddering
> > tourists trying to avoid having a real experience would
> > be unromantic to say the least.
> >
> > Look for romantic hotels and spots in guidebooks, book
> > your own and spend a few days in a handful of places.
> > Wandering the path along the med between' Cinque Terre
> > villages would be fun, a day or two on an island in Lago
> > Magiore is romantic, rent a cottage in the tuscan
> > countryside and visit hill towns and villages. Spend a
> > few evenings in the campo in siena -- my favorite town
> > for romantic evening strolls.
> >
> > Travel in Europe is easy and can be fabulous if you are
> > in control of your own days and nights -- which you are
> > not on a tour.
> >
> I disagree. Very often when you go to a country where you
> have never been and you don't speak the language, you can
> run into all kinds of problems which can be unpleasant, at
> the very least, or, at worst, can ruin your vacation
> completely.
Finding out about these problems, planing the vacations,
dealing with these problems, learning the language, meeting
the locals, etc. are EXACTLY some of the reasons why I go on
vacations. Hell, if I wanted to have sanitized, packaged
tours, I'd rather stay at home watching it on TV. Watching
the TV is even better then watching it from a tour bus
window: you can rewind whenever, and it is cheaper.
> I would prefer to go on a tour where there are only 15/20
> people and where you are guided by two tour managers, one
> of whom is an Italian native and the other an American art
> professor. This way you would have a great introduction to
> Italy (art, art history, history of the country, legends,
> cuisine, wine, etc.), you would be with a very small group
> of interesting people.
No you wont. You will be with English speaking people all
the time, and will encounter the locals rather
infrequently. The introduction to the country is best left
to the time PRIOR to leaving home. What is the point of
being dragged to a museum/castle/church without knowing its
significance before you get there?
> .... Your cost would be the same (or less) than traveling
> alone and you would have a lot more time for romantic
> moments because a tour like the one I described would
> allow you also quite a bit of free time and you would only
> eat with the other travelers at breakfast and during very
> few dinners.
Spending $2100 plus a plane ticket for 15 days in Italy? I
think that pretty much everyone on this NG can do this for
much, much less. Afterall, it makes sense that the tour
operators get paid somehow, right?
I fully agree with the original poster.... tours are great
if you need to be carried from one place to another.
--Peter Mlynek
colleen mclean
Vernon E. Wilson
In <mlynek-10...@larryjr.chem.wisc.edu> mly...@chem.wisc.edu
If you read about what we do you would not make mistakes when you
write. WE DO provide lots of information indeed BEFORE the tour
(included in the price). Much, much less... come on! You get what you
pay for! I can eat at MacDonalds for less...?!? No, you would spend
more on your own if you... rented a car, paid the gasoline, paid the
entrances, paid the hotels at the higher individual cost and if you
hired local guides. Yes, you do mix with the locals during our tours
because we train you before (language and culture wise) to do exactly
that. We, contrary of what large group tour companies do, for example,
know everyone who is going to come with us. Become good friends. Teach
them a TREMENDOUS AMOUNT about Italy BEFORE WE GO (and of course during
and even after (the Italian Lovers Club) - at no extra charge). All
included. No, we do not see Italy through the windows of our
motorcoach! We DO get off. and we DO walk a lot (most of our tourist in
fact stay in good shape and don't put on any weight during our tours).
Again, as I said before, perhaps the best solution for a first timer to
Italy would be a compromise: a small group tour and time on your own
after or a portion of a tour and more time on your owm. You can do all
the above with us.