South of France
Steve Reynoldson
would like some suggestions as places to base myself. I'm driving down there
from Luxembourg but am prepared to use the train to visit the towns on my
itinerary if possible. I want to visit Avignon, Aix-en-Provence, Cannes,
Nice & Monte-Carlo.
Having looked on the map a place called Chateau-Arnoux looks well located
but
if someone could advise differently I'd be grateful for any info.
Thanks.
Steve Reynoldson
R J Carpenter
>
> I'm visiting the French Riviera/Provence for 10 days in mid-September and
> would like some suggestions as places to base myself. I'm driving down there
> from Luxembourg but am prepared to use the train to visit the towns on my
> itinerary if possible. I want to visit Avignon, Aix-en-Provence, Cannes,
> Nice & Monte-Carlo.
You haven't mentioned any of the outstanding Roman remains within 40 km
of Avignon. Orange, Nimes, Arles, Remy de Provence, Poont du Gard,...
Bob C.
nora
to base yourself is Nice. 1) You can get excellent public
transportation, train or bus, to Cannes, Menton, Ventimiglia>San
Remo, Antibes, Vence, Grasse, etc.. 2) Nice offers a wide variety
of accommodation, much of it at lower cost that you will find
elsewhere along the French Riviera. 3) The food in Nice is great.
-----------------------------------------------------------
Got questions? Get answers over the phone at Keen.com.
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Jack
>suggestions as places to base myself. I'm driving down there from Luxembourg but am prepared
>to use the train to visit the towns on my itinerary if possible. I want to visit
>Avignon, Aix-en-Provence, Cannes, Nice & Monte-Carlo.
>if someone could advise differently I'd be grateful for any info.
Hi,
A base in Avignon is still the best base IMHO. To visit Provence from
there log on my web site, Provence section http://www.jack-travel.com/
Avignon, Aix en Provence with day trips, restaurant and hotel
recommendations, off beaten walks and excursions, thorough visits with
antidotical and historical backgrounds.
The same for the French Riviera (Cannes, Nice, Monte-Carlo) on the
Cote d'Azur section of http://www.jack-travel.com/
By the way, Chateau Arnoux is a cute village in the Alpes de Haute
Provence, at the shores of the Durance river, dominated by its
picturesque chateau.
For an introduction to the Alpes de Haute Provence look on today's
posts on the rec.travel.europe. I posted an essay about the subject an
hour ago.
Jack
My Paris,daytrips from Paris, Provence, Cote d'Azur, valley of the
Loire,Normandy, Belgium and Holland posts are open again at
http://www.jack-travel.com WITH pictures and at
http://home.mminternet.com/~nowhere_man
Robert Buxbaum
<ja...@skynet.be> wrote:
>>I'm visiting the French Riviera/Provence for 10 days in mid-September and
>>would like some
>>suggestions as places to base myself. I'm driving down there from
>>Luxembourg but am prepared
>>to use the train to visit the towns on my itinerary if possible. I want to
>>visit
>>Avignon, Aix-en-Provence, Cannes, Nice & Monte-Carlo.
>>Having looked on the map a place called Chateau-Arnoux looks well located
>>but
>>if someone could advise differently I'd be grateful for any info.
>
>Hi,
>
>A base in Avignon is still the best base IMHO.
it's very well located and in and of itself, it's not to be missed. Parking
within the city is not that plentiful and it's ringed with development and
thus a pain to drive in and out of each day. So I wonder about it's value as
a base for seeing the surrounding areas. OTOH, I recall some good
restaurants.
--
<www.worldtable.com> Food/Wine/Travel
-
new offer for car rental and leasing in Europe
posted 21 June 2000
Graham and Rose Mercer
<St...@SReynoldson.Freeserve.Co.Uk> wrote:
Hi Steve,
My wife and I were in these areas in May/June so can offer the
following information.
Provence/Avignon is well worth more than 10 days alone, the villages
of Gordes, Roussillon and Fontaine-de-Vaucluse are especially
beautiful.
There is much to see in Avignon including the Palace of the Popes, St
Benezet Bridge (Pont d'Avignon) and nearby Villeneuve les Avignon.
Just west of Avignon is Pont du Gard with its wonderful multi-arched
Roman aqueduct. We stayed at a gite near here and found it very well
located for visits to Avignon and Nimes. Drop me a line if you would
like more details of the gite. Nearby is a charming village named
Castillon du Gard. We ate (twice) at a restaurant called Clos de
Vignes which was one of the gastronomic highlights of our 3 month
trip. The food, wine, service and people were all fabulous and I would
certainly recommend it.
Between Avignon and Orange is the Chateauneuf du Pape wine region with
its premium wines.
Nimes with its incredible Roman ruins is well worth visiting.
I must admit that I would tend to give the Cote d'Azur a miss. I
thoroughly enjoyed Monaco, especially being there just prior to the
Formula 1 GP (I am a very keen motorsports fan). Spots such as Cap
Ferrat and the village of St Paul were very pretty, but generally the
rest of the area seemed to us to be overcrowded and overrated. If you
are going to look around then I would certainly suggest parking the
car and taking the train to Monaco and Nice. They are both VERY busy
and congested for driving.
To the northwest of Nice is the Grand Canyon du Verdon which is worth
a visit if you have the time.
Hope this helps, have a great trip.
Cheers
Graham Mercer
Australia
nham...@my-deja.com
I've been there a few times. The first time my biggest mistake was not
realizing the total differences between the Riviera and
Provence.
My recommendation for central place to stay in Provence is St Remy. It's
a pretty town with lots of restaurants and hotels but not too
crowded or city like. Very central. (home of lots of the impressionist
painters) DO see Orange (amphitheater), Arles (roman stuff), Pont
du Garde (aqueduct), Avignon (papal palace and great walking and
shopping), Aix, le Baux (I hated it, most people love it). Plus this
area is a great wine area, Chateau Neuf du Pape, Gigondas, etc. We also
visited the Camargue way south which I really enjoyed.
As you can see there is a LOT to do in Provence.
I also recommend you drive not travel by train. It allows you to see all
the pretty little towns and nice byways and backroads. If I were
to use the train I'd do it exactly backwards from what you said. Take the
train for the long trip from Luxembourg to Provence then rent a
car and use it to sightsee.
As for the Riviera. We stayed in St Jean Cap Ferat. Lovely penninsula
situated between Nice and Monaco. Good location for seeing
the perched villages and the coastal towns. Good beach as well. We also
took a trip up into the Gorge du Verdon from there which
was spectacular.
Nancy
------
> I'm visiting the French Riviera/Provence for 10 days in mid-September and
> would like some suggestions as places to base myself. I'm driving down there
> from Luxembourg but am prepared to use the train to visit the towns on my
> itinerary if possible. I want to visit Avignon, Aix-en-Provence, Cannes,
> Nice & Monte-Carlo.
> Having looked on the map a place called Chateau-Arnoux looks well located
> but
> if someone could advise differently I'd be grateful for any info.
>
>
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
GG
Robert Buxbaum <b...@worldtable.com> wrote in message
news:bux-8350F9.0...@news.interport.net...
and
> >>would like some
> >>suggestions as places to base myself. I'm driving down there from
> >>Luxembourg but am prepared
> >>to use the train to visit the towns on my itinerary if possible. I want
to
> >>visit
> >>Avignon, Aix-en-Provence, Cannes, Nice & Monte-Carlo.
> >>Having looked on the map a place called Chateau-Arnoux looks well
located
> >>but
> >>if someone could advise differently I'd be grateful for any info.
> >
> >
> >A base in Avignon is still the best base IMHO.
>
> it's very well located and in and of itself, it's not to be missed.
Parking
> within the city is not that plentiful and it's ringed with development and
> thus a pain to drive in and out of each day. So I wonder about it's value
as
> a base for seeing the surrounding areas. OTOH, I recall some good
> restaurants.
>
> --
> <www.worldtable.com> Food/Wine/Travel
> -
> new offer for car rental and leasing in Europe
> posted 21 June 2000
We loved being based in St.-Rémy. It's a medium-sized town with no real
traffic problems, lots of charm, a hypermarché for the best gas prices and
food basics, a good range of restaurants, and it's centrally located for
touring (20 min. to Avignon, 30-40 min. to Aix, easy daytrips to the
Camargue, the Luberon, Cassis, Marseilles, Arles, Nîmes, Vaison-la-Romaine,
l'Isle-sur-la-Sorgue, the Dentelles de Montmirail, Gigondas and
Chateauneuf-du-Pape wine regions). Nice people and free parking at the
tourist office too.
--
Note: Please substitute pdg1 in the obvious spot to fix the e-mail address.
David Lewis
Mercer <merc...@patash.com.au> writes
>We stayed at a gite near here and found it very well
>located for visits to Avignon and Nimes. Drop me a line if you would
>like more details of the gite
I'l love the details of the gîte, please.
--
Marie
R J Carpenter
> We loved being based in St.-Rémy. It's a medium-sized town with no real
> traffic problems, lots of charm, a hypermarché for the best gas prices and
> food basics, a good range of restaurants, and it's centrally located for
> touring (20 min. to Avignon, 30-40 min. to Aix, easy daytrips to the
> Camargue, the Luberon, Cassis, Marseilles, Arles, Nîmes, Vaison-la-Romaine,
> l'Isle-sur-la-Sorgue, the Dentelles de Montmirail, Gigondas and
> Chateauneuf-du-Pape wine regions). Nice people and free parking at the
> tourist office too.
I think that I could spend a week in that area and not get bored - and
I've been there 2 or 3 times already.
Bob C.
Robert Buxbaum
<nospam...@ispchannel.com> wrote:
>
>We loved being based in St.-Rémy. It's a medium-sized town with no real
>traffic problems, lots of charm, a hypermarché for the best gas prices
For all my love of local food and restaurants and my disdain for fast food
franchises, I'd addicted to the low prices for fuel at the service stations
of all the hypermarches in France. ;-)
I also have to note that I recommend one visit one of the biggest you can
find and explore the inside. As a resident of NYC, I always find
supermarkets in more rural America to be something worth seeing for their
vastness but a good hypermarche will combine the biggest supremarket with
Kmart and Home Depot with room and merchanise to spare. If it's really a
good one, you'll find the worst sort of packaged lunch meats in one aisle
and the fineset terrines of foie gras in another. Lawn movers, power tools,
refrigerators and socks further down.
>and
>food basics, a good range of restaurants, and it's centrally located for
>touring (20 min. to Avignon, 30-40 min. to Aix, easy daytrips to the
>Camargue, the Luberon, Cassis, Marseilles, Arles, Nîmes, Vaison-la-Romaine,
>l'Isle-sur-la-Sorgue, the Dentelles de Montmirail, Gigondas and
>Chateauneuf-du-Pape wine regions). Nice people and free parking at the
>tourist office too.
--
Elisabeth Bouynot
b...@worldtable.com says...
> If it's really a
> good one, you'll find the worst sort of packaged lunch meats in one aisle
> and the fineset terrines of foie gras in another.
In the Carrefour I visit fortnightly, lunch meats and foie gras (even raw
foie gras, to cook your own) are in the same aisle. Same for Vache-qui-
rit and Rocquefort...
Elisabeth
Jack
I hope that a few maison d'hote might also help you. I took a few
addresses out of my web site, Provence section on
http://www.jack-travel.com/ But there are more.
I sampled the most central in Provence.
GORDES: On the road to Murs tel 0490721314
An ancient farm redone with talent: white cane canapés in one of the
two salons looking out on the Cavaillon valley, the floor is in
regional stone in the two small rooms. Every room is equipped with TV
and a magneto scope. The view on the Luberon is exceptional and the
breakfast is served on the terrace or the garden planted with lavender
or rosemary. Room for 500 FF breakfast included.
PERNES-LES-FONTAINES: chemin de la Roque tel 0490664779
A 17th century mas in the shadow of a giant willow tree, 5 rooms have
been installed in a pretty stone house. You will have the joy to take
your breakfast under the willow tree. Bikes and fishing at the nearby
waterfall. Room for 300 FF breakfast included (tartes, brioches,
confitures maison)
MENERBES: La Magnanerie tel 0490724288 at Menerbes
Located at the dell of a hill, this ancient 18th century farm was
refurbished with very good taste, a few kilometres from Gordes. Six
Provencal inspired rooms. Buffet breakfasts served or on the terrace,
or along the pool, or under a parasol. Table d’hote twice a week: 100
FF. A room for 490 FF with breakfast.
BONNIEUX: Les Trois Sources tel 0490759558at Saint-Victor 84480
Bonnieux
This very old house, of which certain date from the 12th century, is
planted in the middle of vineyards. The owners had the grace to
renovate 4 rooms and a suite by keeping the authenticity of the
premises: shutters in sculpted wood. Breakfast is taken under the
mulberry-tree. When night falls you can sit down in the winter garden
to admire the chateau of the marquis de Sade. Rooms from 360 to 850
FF, breakfast included
APT: Le Moulin de Mauragne, tel 0490743137 route de Marseille 84400
Apt
A mill in the dell of a valley. Address full of charm, and still
confidential: don’t spread it out too much!
Charming house partly furnished with Balinese furniture. The property
is crossed by a river and thus the great plus of the place is that it
is always green and fresh here, even in the middle of the summer. The
interior is sober and refined, mixing the Balinese and 18th century
furniture. Rooms of which two connecting with very beautiful
bathrooms. Rooms from 600 to 750 FF breakfast included.
Le Mas d’Ange, petite route de Saint-Remy-de-Provence 13940 Mollèges
tel 0490950883
This small “mas” near Saint-Remy–de-Provence is the result of the
skill of its owner, Bruno Lafforgue, mason, cook, carpenter who
conjugated his talents to build this large welcoming house, five
minutes away from the Alpilles. Cobblestones on the ground lead you to
six rooms with bath. Two marvelous pools for those who want to
refresh. Grillades and provencal specialties in the evening. A double
for 350 FF.
Le Cèdre, 97 place Emile-Jamais 30670 Aigues-Vives tel 0466359393
Branches of a monumental cedar expand in front of this elegant house
near Nimes, a façade of the 18th century, restored with refinement by
its new owner, Abigail Barthelemy. Six rooms overlooking the vineyards
and “garrigue”. Convivial hospitality, breakfast under the wistarias,
protected swimming pool. In high season the doubles cost 450 to 600
FF, breakfast included.
Les Pinchinats, 13100 Aix-en-Provence tel 0442170260
A few minutes from the center of Aix, this bastide protects its guests
from the summer crowds noise thanks to its park of 8 hectares. You can
bath in an ancient basin of freestone, rebuild into a swimming pool.
Four luxurious rooms prolonged by a private terrace. A double costs
750 FF.
Don
>
> I also have to note that I recommend one visit one of the biggest you can
> find and explore the inside. As a resident of NYC, I always find
> supermarkets in more rural America to be something worth seeing for their
> vastness but a good hypermarche will combine the biggest supremarket with
> refrigerators and socks further down.
I agree with you, they're absolutly amazing in both good and bad terms.
A fellow I know works for one chain, about 6 days a week actually (1 area
where the shortened work week doesn't apply).
If you're lucky enough to catch the sales in a hypermarche or if you
*just* miss one then you have it made. Word is that the insane prices
last throughout the sale and then things get marked down even farther.
The gas, a definate yes. Odd kitchen gadgets and hard to find things I
love as well. Actually the common things are great buys as well. I'm
hopeless, it's to the point where I'm planning on taking people to the
one hypermarche in Paris during the photo workshops this fall. There's
just too many good things to pass up!
Don
Graham and Rose Mercer
<Da...@nodanw.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>In article <396ac982...@news.patash.com.au>, Graham and Rose
>Mercer <merc...@patash.com.au> writes
>>We stayed at a gite near here and found it very well
>>located for visits to Avignon and Nimes. Drop me a line if you would
>>like more details of the gite
>
>I'l love the details of the gîte, please.
>--
>Marie
>
Hi Marie,
The gite near the Pont du Gard is called La Begude.
phone 04 66 37 18 11.
If you have the Gites de France 2000 National Guide book for Chambres
et Tables D'Hotels it is listed on page 692 under the location of
Vers-Pont-du-Gard. It is given a 3 epis rating and we found it quite
comfortable for the 2 nights that we spent there. The cost was 290F
per night for 2 people with breakfast included. The gite is a farm on
the main road between Vers and Remoulins, quite close to the Pont du
Gard turnoff. The area is also popular for hiking and mountain biking
(VTT in French, velo tout terrain).
When we were there the road down to the Pont du Gard on the right
(north) side of the river was closed and it was necessary to drive
into Remoulins to cross the river and then return along the left bank
to visit the aqueduct, but this was only a drive of 15 minutes or so.
If you do go to this area I would thoroughly recommend exploring the
village of Castillon du Gard that I mentioned in my previous post.
Also a meal (or two!!) at the Clos de Vignes is not to be missed.
As you enter Castillon there is a sign to the left which directs you
to a parking area located at the base of the water tower. From the
back of this carpark is a nice view of the Pont du Gard aqueduct.
If you like red wine try a bottle of Chateau Mont Redon from the
Chateau Neuf de Pape region, just to the north. It is available on the
wine list at Clos de Vignes and from memory it was not too expensive.
Hope that this helps and have a great trip,
Graham
Stu Dudley
Robert Buxbaum <b...@worldtable.com> wrote:
> In article <nGFa5.5387$Dc3.2...@news1.onlynews.com>, "GG"
> <nospam...@ispchannel.com> wrote:
>
> >
> >We loved being based in St.-Rémy. It's a medium-sized town with no
real
> >traffic problems, lots of charm, a hypermarché for the best gas
prices
>
> For all my love of local food and restaurants and my disdain for fast
food
> franchises, I'd addicted to the low prices for fuel at the service
stations
> of all the hypermarches in France. ;-)
>
can
> find and explore the inside. As a resident of NYC, I always find
> supermarkets in more rural America to be something worth seeing for
their
> vastness but a good hypermarche will combine the biggest supremarket
with
> Kmart and Home Depot with room and merchanise to spare. If it's
really a
> good one, you'll find the worst sort of packaged lunch meats in one
aisle
> and the fineset terrines of foie gras in another. Lawn movers, power
tools,
> refrigerators and socks further down.
>
If you are close to Nice, check out the "Carrefour" on the N202 road
from the airport to Digne. They have 63 check out stands & when we
were there, they were all open.
--
Stu Dudley
San Mateo (San Francisco), Ca
jml
list when I go to Paris. I've schlepped back coffee, spices,
wine, kitchen linens and utensils, baking dishes, soap, and lots
of other stuff. I can wander the place for an hour or more.
Elsewhere, I tried Intermarche, Continent, and Auchan but I seem
to do best in Carrefour
Lana Zee
frequently and cheaply. She told me she has received some strange looks
from Canadian customs inspectors when carrying a kitchen rubbish bin
from France, not to mention a dish drainer from Spain.
Lana
jml <jloganN...@hcfa.gov.invalid> wrote in message
news:1589321d...@usw-ex0104-025.remarq.com...
Don
jloganN...@hcfa.gov.invalid says...
> And I thought I was the only who puts Carrefour at the top of my
> list when I go to Paris. I've schlepped back coffee, spices,
> wine, kitchen linens and utensils, baking dishes, soap, and lots
> of other stuff. I can wander the place for an hour or more.
>
> to do best in Carrefour
They used to have online shopping but that site seems to map to .ca now,
but you can take a gander at the locations at:
http://www.stores.carrefour.com/fr/
Don
Paris travelogues:
http://www.visitparis.com
Derek Fisher
> I
> > >We loved being based in St.-Rémy. It's a medium-sized town with no
> real
> > >traffic problems, lots of charm, a hypermarché for the best gas
> prices
> >
> > For all my love of local food and restaurants and my disdain for fast
> food
> > franchises, I'd addicted to the low prices for fuel at the service
> stations
> > of all the hypermarches in France. ;-)
> >
> > I also have to note that I recommend one visit one of the biggest you
> can
> > find and explore the inside. As a resident of NYC, I always find
> > supermarkets in more rural America to be something worth seeing for
> their
> > vastness but a good hypermarche will combine the biggest supremarket
> with
> > Kmart and Home Depot with room and merchanise to spare. If it's
> really a
> > good one, you'll find the worst sort of packaged lunch meats in one
> aisle
> > and the fineset terrines of foie gras in another. Lawn movers, power
> tools,
> > refrigerators and socks further down.
> >
>
For a list of loads of French and other hypermarket groups, try :-
http://www.fcd.asso.fr/6.htm
It's in French, but lots of the linked sites also have English pages -
especially the english ones!
Derek
--
We're making progress! Things are getting worse at a slower rate..
This post represents the views of the author and does not necessarily
accurately represent the views of my employer.
jml
Carrefour in 1/4 and 1/2 kilo vacuum bricks. I bring back a LOT
and I'm waiting for the day US customs decides to inspect my
bag.
R J Carpenter
>
> It's not Customs that could ask any questions, it's the Dept. of
> Agriculture since they might consider it to be "food".
I quote from the "Customs Declaration" form 6059B:
"I am (We are) bringing fruits, plants, meats, food, soil, birds,
snails, other live animals, wildlife products, farm products; or, have
been on a farm or ranch outside the U. S. ( ) Yes ( ) No "
Isn't the cotton in my shirt a farm product, leather shoes, etc, etc.?
To be absolutely strict in interpretation, I'd think EVERYONE would have
to answer "Yes" ... which is silly.
The question doesn't distinguish between processed and raw, etc. etc.
The question implies such draconian limits that at least 99% surely
answer "No", no matter what they are carrying, and the question thus
fails completely.
[See, you hit one of my "hot buttons".]
Bob C.
Steve Reynoldson
Many thanks for your very comprehensive guide to the French Riviera. I am a
single English chap working in Luxembourg for a year or so. My French is
good
so hopefully I won't have any language difficulties. I initially intend
finding a base near Avignon, exploring Orange, Aix & St-Remy and moving on
to the Riviera. I will take your advice about Antibes and find myself some
accommodation there as it looks quite central for exploring the Riviera.
I'll certainly also make a beeline for the pizza restaurant you recommended.
I have received other helpful tips after posting my e-mail. It's amazing
that the South of France inspires people so much. Although I consider myself
a francophile, I've never visited the country more than a couple of times
with the odd trips to Paris so you can imagine that I'm getting somewhat
excited about the prospect of experiencing the world class Cote D'Azur and
the mystery of Provence. I'm not sure whether it's best to try and book
accommodation in advance or just seek out a hotels as and when I arrive.
Anyway I have quite a bit of research to do on that score.
As for Luxembourg, it's a pretty little place and not much happens here,
however it's ideally situated for Germany and France.
thanks again
Regards,
Steve
Bob Woods <bobw...@pacbell.net> wrote in message
news:396D432F...@pacbell.net...
> Hi Steve,
>
> Your plan sounds great; I'm attaching some notes I wrote up on the Riviera
a few
> years ago. Not everyone would agree with my choices but it's a place to
start.
>
> As a side point, my wife and I honeymooned in Luxembourg 32 years ago.
>
> Bob
>
> Steve Reynoldson wrote:
>
> > I'm visiting the French Riviera/Provence for 10 days in mid-September
and
> > would like some suggestions as places to base myself. I'm driving down
there
> > from Luxembourg but am prepared to use the train to visit the towns on
my
> > itinerary if possible. I want to visit Avignon, Aix-en-Provence, Cannes,
> > Nice & Monte-Carlo.
> > Having looked on the map a place called Chateau-Arnoux looks well
located
> > but
> > if someone could advise differently I'd be grateful for any info.
> >
> > Thanks.
> > Steve Reynoldson
>
Don
jloganN...@hcfa.gov.invalid says...
> My favorite brand of coffee is Carte Noir, which is available at
> Carrefour in 1/4 and 1/2 kilo vacuum bricks. I bring back a LOT
> and I'm waiting for the day US customs decides to inspect my
> bag.
It's not Customs that could ask any questions, it's the Dept. of
Agriculture since they might consider it to be "food".
Although if I was ever asked about the "food" I was carrying which is
actually coffee, I'd certainly have to wonder exactly which parents say
to their kids: "Johnny, FINISH your espresso before going to school. You
*have to* have a well balanced meal!"
Don
> The question implies such draconian limits that at least 99% surely
> answer "No", no matter what they are carrying, and the question thus
> fails completely.
>
> [See, you hit one of my "hot buttons".]
>
> Bob C.
I foresee an amazing career for you at a port of entry, someplace! :)
D L Thornton
>>We stayed at a gite near here and found it very well
>>located for visits to Avignon and Nimes. Drop me a line if you would
>>like more details of the gite
>
>I'l love the details of the gîte, please.
This is not the gite in question but you may care to look at the URLs
in my signature to give yourself an idea of what is available.
--
For comfortable self catering accommodation in Provence
see www.masbelair.com
and www.masbelair.com/remuzat/remueng.htm
Please use dlt(@)masbelair.com to contact me.
Evelyn Vogt Gamble (Divamanque)
carrying a live animal! ("Possible", maybe, if it were
well-drugged and well-hidden, but live animals have
unexpected ways of making their presence known.)
R J Carpenter wrote:
>
> Don wrote:
> >
> > It's not Customs that could ask any questions, it's the Dept. of
> > Agriculture since they might consider it to be "food".
>
> I quote from the "Customs Declaration" form 6059B:
>
> "I am (We are) bringing fruits, plants, meats, food, soil, birds,
> snails, other live animals, wildlife products, farm products; or, have
> been on a farm or ranch outside the U. S. ( ) Yes ( ) No "
>
> Isn't the cotton in my shirt a farm product, leather shoes, etc, etc.?
> To be absolutely strict in interpretation, I'd think EVERYONE would have
> to answer "Yes" ... which is silly.
>
> The question doesn't distinguish between processed and raw, etc. etc.
>
Evleth
----------
Dans l'article <396E86...@erols.com>, R J Carpenter <rca...@erols.com>
a écrit :
> Don wrote:
>>
>> It's not Customs that could ask any questions, it's the Dept. of
>> Agriculture since they might consider it to be "food".
>
> I quote from the "Customs Declaration" form 6059B:
>
> "I am (We are) bringing fruits, plants, meats, food, soil, birds,
> snails, other live animals, wildlife products, farm products; or, have
> been on a farm or ranch outside the U. S. ( ) Yes ( ) No "
>
> Isn't the cotton in my shirt a farm product, leather shoes, etc, etc.?
> To be absolutely strict in interpretation, I'd think EVERYONE would have
> to answer "Yes" ... which is silly.
>
> The question doesn't distinguish between processed and raw, etc. etc.
>
> The question implies such draconian limits that at least 99% surely
> answer "No", no matter what they are carrying, and the question thus
> fails completely.
>
> [See, you hit one of my "hot buttons".]
>
> Bob C.
The forms the American government expects you to fill out before landing are
a world of their own. Consider the form required of foreigners from
countries for which no visa is required (most Western European countries
plus Japan and Singapore). The following questions are asked:
1. Do you have a communicable disease; physical or menatal disorder; or are
you a drug abuser or addict?
2. Have you ever been arrested or convicted for an offense or crime
involving moral turpitude or a violation realted to a controlled substance;
or been arrested or convicted for two or more offenses for which the
aggregate sentence to confinement was five years or more; or been a
controlled substance trafficker; or are you seeking entry to engage in
criminal or immoral activites?
3. Have you ever been or are you now involved in espionage or sabotage; or
in terrorist activities; or genocide; or between 1933 and 1945 were you
involved in any way in persecutions associate with Nazi Germany or its
allies?
4. Are you seeking to work in the US; or have you ever been excluded and
deported; or been previously removed from thu United States; or procured or
attempted to procure a visa or entry into the US by fraud or
misrepresentation?
5. Have you ever detained obtained or witheld custody of a child from a US
citizen granted custody of a child?
6. Have you ever been denied a US visa of entry into the US or had a US visa
cancelled?
Nobody who has ever done of these things is going to admit it. So why ask
the questions at all? What does happen is that some of the foreigners who
have to answer these questions end up feeling really offended. But then the
bureaucrats don't think of those things.
Donna Evleth
R J Carpenter
>
Content of form to filled in by those not requiring visa to enter USA
SNIPPED
> Nobody who has ever done of these things is going to admit it. So why ask
> the questions at all? What does happen is that some of the foreigners who
> have to answer these questions end up feeling really offended. But then the
> bureaucrats don't think of those things.
Bureaucrats or Congress-crats? I'll wager that you'll find all those
restrictions in a Congressional Act authorizing the no-visa program....
OTOH, I agree that it is naive to expect anyone to anyswer "yes" to any
of those question, just as on my "hot button" agricultural form.
But the USA isn't the only place. How easy is it to take Gaston to
Britain - even with their easing of the rules? British beef into
France?
Bob C.
Michael Forrest
writes
>the questions at all? What does happen is that some of the foreigners who
>have to answer these questions end up feeling really offended. But then the
>bureaucrats don't think of those things.
>
There is a book of memoirs by someone in which they claim to have
answered variously "Yes" and "Frequently" to these questions just to see
what happened. It rather failed because the person was a well known
author (I think) and was recognised and the customs entered into the
joke.
I will try harder to remember who it was.
--
Michael Forrest
Evleth
> But the USA isn't the only place. How easy is it to take Gaston to
> Britain - even with their easing of the rules? British beef into
> France?
The movement of animals to and from Britain has been eased, it can be done
now, the dog or cat has to have some sort of implant. France is so welcoming
of dog that Gaston has no particular desire to venture into Britain.
The mad cow controversy returned to the news because of the finding of
4-5 fatal cases of humans dying from the disease in a small town in
Britain with a population of only 1800. It is more or less like finding
Ebola fever in a small area. This number is too high to be explained by a
simple statistical variation and comment indicates that the people dying
were infected in the late 1980s, the disease is supposed to have a long
incubation period.
What is worrisome is whether this is the beginning of the Bell Curve and
that number dying will increase progressively to some now unpredictable
level.
The French are currently into a large bovine testing program to see how
many animals are really infected in France even though the total number of
found cases (107) over the years is small compared to Britain. One assumed
that once the aninmal component to cattle feed had been removed the
number of animals falling ill would decrease. But this has not been the
case. So either a lot of cheating is still going on or other forms of
infection are incluing. It many be intergenerational, some infected cattle
not coming up with the symthoms and transmitting it mother to child.
There is still more research to be done. It is being done.
Ian Diddams
>Evleth wrote:
>>
> Content of form to filled in by those not requiring visa to enter USA
>SNIPPED
>
>> the questions at all? What does happen is that some of the foreigners who
>> have to answer these questions end up feeling really offended. But then
the
>> bureaucrats don't think of those things.
>
>restrictions in a Congressional Act authorizing the no-visa program....
They are basically the same questions I had to answer on a tourist visa
application form back in 1986 - back before NO VISA into the US was an
option
(although US citizens could freely arrive in Western Europe without visas of
course at that time... ;-). So the reasoning behind these questions is far
older than just the bill authorising the no-visa program....
The question that I lauighed at the most was the one that went on abiout
whether I'd been, or known anybody etc etc etc that had been a member of the
communist party. Presumably I wasn't going to admit to knowing that a bloke
in the next street was a member of the communist party 20 years ago just in
case I failed to receive my visa... and as if knowing such a person in such
circumstances made me a dangerous person!!
>But the USA isn't the only place. How easy is it to take Gaston to
>Britain - even with their easing of the rules? British beef into
>France?
I would suggest that if one was taking British Beef into France "as a gift"
Les Douanes would probably laugh... take a loory load in they might take a
different view ... but then again, the two scenarios are very different.
Much was made last October/November of the French national rugby team eating
British Beef before their semi-final aainst New Zealand... which France one
in great style I'll add, and the French players joked about the magnificent
abiliites of British Beef to fortify them etc etc etc...
;-)
Didds
If you can't annoy somebody with what you write, I think there's
little point in writing. -- Kingsley Amis
Derek Fisher
> > But the USA isn't the only place. How easy is it to take Gaston to
> > Britain - even with their easing of the rules? British beef into
> > France?
>
> The French are currently into a large bovine testing program to see how
> many animals are really infected in France even though the total number of
> found cases (107) over the years is small compared to Britain. One assumed
> that once the aninmal component to cattle feed had been removed the
> number of animals falling ill would decrease. But this has not been the
> case. So either a lot of cheating is still going on or other forms of
> infection are incluing. It many be intergenerational, some infected cattle
> not coming up with the symthoms and transmitting it mother to child.
>
> There is still more research to be done. It is being done.
But has a proper trial been done, and, if so, will the true results be
published?
You can get tests to give whatever result you want, so long as you manipulate
the sample properly.
Elisabeth Bouynot
> >===== Original Message From w3...@amsat.org =====
> >Evleth wrote:
> >>
> > Content of form to filled in by those not requiring visa to enter USA
> >SNIPPED
> >
> >> Nobody who has ever done of these things is going to admit it. So why ask
> >> the questions at all? What does happen is that some of the foreigners who
> >> have to answer these questions end up feeling really offended. But then
> The question that I lauighed at the most was the one that went on abiout
> whether I'd been, or known anybody etc etc etc that had been a member of the
> communist party. Presumably I wasn't going to admit to knowing that a bloke
> in the next street was a member of the communist party 20 years ago just in
> case I failed to receive my visa... and as if knowing such a person in such
> circumstances made me a dangerous person!!
I was thinking about that one. I had to lie when I went as an exchange
student in '86, as my grandmother had been a longtime member of the Parti
Communiste Français...
Elisabeth
Robert Buxbaum
wrote:
>I would suggest that if one was taking British Beef into France "as a gift"
>Les Douanes would probably laugh...
American wine is always good for a chuckle. Best you can do is ask in
return if they make wine in France as well, but smile broadly. I've found
the French have a wonderful sense of humor and little is funnier than a
American teasing them if it's done in French.
Robert Buxbaum
Bouynot <elis...@gabuzomeu.net> wrote:
You're under arrest. ;-)
Alas, Americans have such a small sense of humor when it comes to communism.
My mother recalled a time when her college friends went to communist
meetings to meet boys, which is funny as most American woman prefer to meet
rich guys.