UK/Best time to tour
vze2...@mail.verizon.net
suggestions on the best time to travel relating both to weather and
events. Also, could anyone suggest a good tour operator. Thank you in
advance.
Tom
keitha...@bsuk.fsbusiness.co.uk
Statistically, June and September tend to be the driest months, but
the climate is, at best, unpredicatable thanks to the good old Gulf
Stream and now global warming. Personally, Id go for June as there are
longer daylight hours, esp in Scotland where it hardly gets dark at
all in midsummer.
As for tour operators, take nothing on trust. An "orientation tour"
often means you drive past the cathedral before schlepping off for
another 100 miles on the bus. As you've written in English, I'm
assuming you've no language problem, so maybe consider "doing your own
thing"? Gives you freedom and choice.
(I admit terrible prejudice - I've worked for tour-operators and in my
experience - to misquote Oscar Wilde - they know "the price of
everything and the value of nothing") However, I'm sure later postings
will recommend good tour-operators - especially small-scale,
specialist operators who are small enough to care about providing a
well-paced, well-planned itinerary, rather than breakfast in
Edinburgh, lunch in Bath, overnight in Penzance with an "orientation
tour" of Wales in the afternoon!!!
J J MIO
times. We learned that one can 'get around' by themself if that is an option
they want to pursue
London is a city that can take 2-3 weeks on its own depending an interest in
history.
The countryside is magnificien and we would travel 50 miles one day and 150 the
next. Not having a fixed itinerery allowed us to browse.
I am not attempting to discourage the use of a tour operator because i have
found them to enhance our experiences. But to point out that England is so
tourist friendly that a trip on your own is an enjoyable option
Jack (California)
Guido
for some London based infos look at
HoloGuides London
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http://www.geocities.com/holonet2001 : Knowledge & Guides : Cities : London
.
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vze2...@mail.verizon.net wrote in message
<3A8D089F...@mail.verizon.net>...
Michael Forrest
vze2...@mail.verizon.net writes
summer.
"Events" is a bit wide. Can you narrow it?
--
Michael Forrest
Derek Fisher
I would agree with the above. I'd go for late May to June, especially for
the northernmost areas.
As for tour operators, why use them at all?
Buy a decent book about the UK. Read it and decide where you want to go.
Rent a car. Plan out your own itinerary and even book up your own hotels.
There shouldn't be a problem, and this NG is always here to give advice
and experience.
Distances are a lot shorter here than in the US, so you shouldn't be
sitting behind the wheel all day. You can then stop when you like, leave
when you like and aren't tied to a specific route. If you see something
interesting, go and look, there aren't another 50 coach passengers
dragging away to the "scheduled site" if you don't want to go.
Enough of my ranting, but just think it over. Remember, planning's half
the fun. What do you think I did when I visited the States?
Derek
--
In a recent straw pole 96% of our employees said they had drawn the short
one.
This post represents the views of the author and does not necessarily
accurately represent the views of my employer.
Alan Thomas Harrison
keitha...@bsuk.fsbusiness.co.uk wrote:
>
> As for tour operators, take nothing on trust. An "orientation tour"
> often means you drive past the cathedral before schlepping off for
> another 100 miles on the bus.
And while being driven past the cathedral you can be given erroneous
info. A few years ago, I went on a Guide Friday open top bus tour round
Norwich, in the course of which the guide told us that Norwich was the
only city apart from Liverpool and Westminster which has both Anglican
and RC cathedrals.
I ventured, when getting off, to correct him on one of the two egregious
errors in that statement, by pointing out that cities with both Anglican
and RC cathedrals are commonplace (e.g. Birmingham, Bristol, Portsmouth,
London Borough of Southwark, Sheffield), and received the cryptic
response "It depends what you mean by a cathedral, I suppose." (If you
mean a purpose-built cathedral, that narrows the field considerably, but
excludes Norwich, where the RC cathedral is a parish church promoted to
cathedral status on the founding of the Dicoese of East Anglia.)
I didn't even bother pointing out that Westminster has only one
cathedral, since the large church commonly called Westminster Abbey
(properly the Collegiate Church of Saint Peter) is not a cathedral.
Alan Harrison
Philip Hazel
|> And while being driven past the cathedral you can be given erroneous
|> info.
If you ever visit Cambridge and take a student-driven chauffeur punt on
the river, don't believe any of what you are told!
--
Philip Hazel
University Computing Service, Cambridge, England.
Alan
year, weather wise at least. It rarely rains, and is often sunny and warm,
with regular heat waves recorded in May. The height of 'summer' isnt
usually as good as you might think, and is VERY unpredictable.
Thats my two pence worth.
Alan
Derek Fisher <derek....@bt.com> wrote in message
news:3A8D2508...@bt.com...
Alan
some decent books and do waht you find suits you best. Public transport is
(usually) fast and reasonably cheap, with internal flights on the low cost
airlines being ridiculously cheap, so if you want to go from London one day
to Glasgow the next it can be done for under £20 and in 50 minutes, you cant
do that with a tour company. People seem to be more helpful here when
tourists arent wading around in tour buses.
Alan
Guido <CyberG...@Yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:3a8d1...@news.vo.lu...
keitha...@bsuk.fsbusiness.co.uk
<cbs...@brunel.ac.uk> wrote:
>
>
>keitha...@bsuk.fsbusiness.co.uk wrote:
>>
>> As for tour operators, take nothing on trust. An "orientation tour"
>> often means you drive past the cathedral before schlepping off for
>> another 100 miles on the bus.
>
>And while being driven past the cathedral you can be given erroneous
>info. A few years ago, I went on a Guide Friday open top bus tour round
>Norwich, in the course of which the guide told us that Norwich was the
>only city apart from Liverpool and Westminster which has both Anglican
>and RC cathedrals.
>
Standards of guide training vary. Disappointed to hear that Guide
Friday made a cockup - their training is usually very thorough and
their information accurate.
Even within the fraternity of official, registered "Blue Badge"
guides, training standards have been variable. A national standard was
established in 1984 - Regional Tourist Boards were supposed to
implement a common core curriculum - they agreed to - most did but
some didn't! As Regional Tourist Boards shed their "hands-on"
responsibilities, more training will be undertaken by the Tourist
Guiding Foundation, which, in course of time, will become a
professional Institute of Tourist Guiding provided Government approval
is forthcoming. It is our aim, through the Institute which will
protect standards, to make the Blue Badge a guarantee of quality.
Keith Anderson
Chair - Guild of Registered Tourist Guides, Bristol/Bath Region
keitha...@bsuk.fsbusiness.co.uk
>info. A few years ago, I went on a Guide Friday open top bus tour round
>Norwich, in the course of which the guide told us that Norwich was the
>only city apart from Liverpool and Westminster which has both Anglican
>and RC cathedrals.
>
>I ventured, when getting off, to correct him on one of the two egregious
>errors in that statement, by pointing out that cities with both Anglican
>and RC cathedrals are commonplace (e.g. Birmingham, Bristol, Portsmouth,
>London Borough of Southwark, Sheffield), and received the cryptic
>response "It depends what you mean by a cathedral, I suppose." (If you
>mean a purpose-built cathedral, that narrows the field considerably, but
>excludes Norwich, where the RC cathedral is a parish church promoted to
>cathedral status on the founding of the Dicoese of East Anglia.)
>
>I didn't even bother pointing out that Westminster has only one
>cathedral, since the large church commonly called Westminster Abbey
>(properly the Collegiate Church of Saint Peter) is not a cathedral.
>
>Alan Harrison
I reckon the guide was heading for a "truth" but got a bit lost on the
way! Bristol certainly has an Anglican cathedral and an RC one, but -
and I think this goes back to the Catholic Emancipation Act of 1829 -
the RC cathedral is in the diocese of Clifton, and the Anglican in the
doicese of Bristol - and in London there is a Bishop of London but an
RC Archbishop of Westminster. In other words, Anglicans and RC's can't
call their diocese by the same name.
keitha...@bsuk.fsbusiness.co.uk
>
>I reckon the guide was heading for a "truth" but got a bit lost on the
>way! Bristol certainly has an Anglican cathedral and an RC one, but -
>and I think this goes back to the Catholic Emancipation Act of 1829 -
>the RC cathedral is in the diocese of Clifton, and the Anglican in the
>doicese of Bristol - and in London there is a Bishop of London but an
>RC Archbishop of Westminster. In other words, Anglicans and RC's can't
>call their diocese by the same name.
To clarify further, Bristol has two cathedral buildings, but the
Anglican one is called Bristol Cathedral and the RC one is Clifton
Cathedral.
Michael Forrest
<ph...@cus.cam.ac.uk> writes
>In article <3A8D3588...@brunel.ac.uk>, Alan Thomas Harrison
><cbs...@brunel.ac.uk> writes:
>
>|> And while being driven past the cathedral you can be given erroneous
>|> info.
>
>If you ever visit Cambridge and take a student-driven chauffeur punt on
>the river, don't believe any of what you are told!
>
University Computing Service, Cambridge, England.
That is an interesting observation from someone I presume to be a member
of the academic staff. Who taught the students in the first place?
(smiley)
PS - please give my regards to Frank King.
--
Michael Forrest
NKA
<ml...@sonning.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> In article <96jhou$sjm$1...@pegasus.csx.cam.ac.uk>, Philip Hazel
> <ph...@cus.cam.ac.uk> writes
> >In article <3A8D3588...@brunel.ac.uk>, Alan Thomas Harrison
> ><cbs...@brunel.ac.uk> writes:
> >
> >|> And while being driven past the cathedral you can be given erroneous
> >|> info.
> >
What is the differnce between a church and a cathedral? Who determines
which is a church and which is a cathedral? Never gave it much thought
till I read this article.
Remove go from address
devil
Then there are chapels, basilicas etc.
But seriously, what makes a cathedral a cathedral is, as the name tells
you, the chair. Cathedra in latin. Same word as named chairs at
universities. Chaire in French (to be distinguished from chair which in
French is just plain meat :-)).
A chair for the bishop. So, cathedrals were the bishop's status
symbol. Which ordinary churches are not.
And bishops could be powerful. And/or nasty. Just look at the history
of the crusades. Without even having to get into what they did to
Jewish communitees on their way in the East. Just to their own
people...
For instance, Vezelay is a wonderful place to visit. And hear about the
relationship between peasants in the village and the abbey. Which is
where the call for one of the major crusades was made. Scary how these
people could be self-righteous.
(Reminds me of that guy, TV evangelist, married to that horrible bimbo,
who ended up caught in the pants of the church secretary. Who (the
secretary) ended up in Playboy, what the hell was their name? Larry
King recently interviewed their son who just wrote a book.)
Das pearl
>But seriously, what makes a cathedral a cathedral is, as the name tells
>you, the chair. Cathedra in latin. Same word as named chairs at
>universities. Chaire in French (to be distinguished from chair which in
>French is just plain meat :-)).
>
>A chair for the bishop. So, cathedrals were the bishop's status
>symbol. Which ordinary churches are not.
>
>And bishops could be powerful. And/or nasty. Just look at the history
>of the crusades.
Hello, everyone. Kind of a delurk. :-) The above made me think of a wonderful
fictionalized account of the history of catherdrals by Ken Follett called
Pillars of the Earth. It is fascinating reading and particularly so if you are
planning on visiting any catherdrals in Europe.
Johnson Family
When you come, try to avoid the school holidays. This includes the weeks
either side of Easter, one week at the end of May, and the period from the
end of July till the first week in August.
Weather-wise, the way our weather is going this year, there is no "best"
time to come, just be prepared to get wet! Spring and Summer are the more
obvious times.
One cautionary note - our railway system is currently "up the spout" (not
very healthy) with many trains being cancelled and delayed. The situation
is "supposed" to be better by Easter, but I doubt it. Rail travel is still
the best way for a tourist to get around, however, budget for some expensive
fares and work some extra "buffer" time into your schedule. See the
following sites for information on UK rail travel...
www.railtrack.com
www.thetrainline.com
www.nationalrail.co.uk
www.gner.com
www.eurostar.com
www.greatwesterntrains.com
www.virgintrains.com
I hope that you find the above helpful,
Yours,
Robert
<vze2...@mail.verizon.net> wrote in message
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Alan Thomas Harrison
devil wrote:
> But seriously, what makes a cathedral a cathedral is, as the name tells
> you, the chair. Cathedra in latin.
But a loan-word from Greek!
> A chair for the bishop. So, cathedrals were the bishop's status
> symbol. Which ordinary churches are not.
Precisely. "Cathedral" is really an adjective, and a "cathedral church"
is, I suppose, a "chairy" or "throny" church. A church is a cathedral if
it contains the throne of a diocesan bishop, and otherwise it is not,
however large it might be.
With the growth of the number of Anglican dioceses in the late 18th and
early 20th centuries, several cities and towns (and one village) gained
a cathedral. Purpose-built cathedrals were erected in a few cases
(Truro, Liverpool, Guildford) but more commonly an existing large church
was kicked upstairs to cathedral status (e.g. Birmingham, Southwark,
Wakefield, and the village cathedral - Southwell). Coventry was an
interesting case, the original purpose-built cathedral having fallen
into ruin when the diocese was merged with Lichfield. When the diocese
was revived, a large parish church became the new cathedral. That church
in turn was destroyed by enemy action in World War II, and the city
gained its third cathedral, once again purpose-built.
Westminster Abbey was briefly a cathedral in the sixteenth century, but
the Anglican Diocese of Westminster was swiftly abolished.
English Roman Catholic cathedrals are, of course, relatively modern
buildings, and they tend to be placed in centres of populations - e.g.
Leeds rather than Ripon, Nottingham rather than Southwell. Similarly, RC
archbishops are "metropolitan" in another sense, being based in
Westminster, Southwark, Birmingham and Liverpool.
> (Reminds me of that guy, TV evangelist, married to that horrible bimbo,
> who ended up caught in the pants of the church secretary. Who (the
> secretary) ended up in Playboy, what the hell was their name? Larry
> King recently interviewed their son who just wrote a book.)
Is that Bakker or Falwell you were thinking of?
Alan Harrison
Alan Thomas Harrison
keitha...@bsuk.fsbusiness.co.uk wrote:
>
> I reckon the guide was heading for a "truth" but got a bit lost on the
> way! Bristol certainly has an Anglican cathedral and an RC one, but -
> and I think this goes back to the Catholic Emancipation Act of 1829 -
> the RC cathedral is in the diocese of Clifton, and the Anglican in the
> doicese of Bristol - and in London there is a Bishop of London but an
> RC Archbishop of Westminster. In other words, Anglicans and RC's can't
> call their diocese by the same name.
Liverpool? Birmingham? Portsmouth? Southwark? Admittedly in three of
those cases confusion is slightly mitigated by the RC prelate being the
Archbishop of L, B or S, while his C of E oppo is just a bishop, but the
dioceses have the same name. (There was legislation, now a dead letter,
which prevented any other prelate taking the same title as an Anglican
bishop, but this didn't deal with the situation where, as in Birmingham,
the RCs got in first.)
There are also at least two cases of an Anglican suffragan having the
same territorial title as a Roman diocesan - Shrewsbury and Plymouth.
Alan Harrison
keitha...@bsuk.fsbusiness.co.uk
We'll have to put all this in the National Core Knowledge Curriculum -
or, better still, get you to come and teach it to us!
It's really difficult at times to get it right - how far can one
pursue a particular area of knowledge when one is expected to know so
much about so many topics. There used to be a plethora of Endorsement
Courses at local colleges, but funding is so limited that they are now
few and far between.