Choosing Hamburg or Berlin for Very Brief Visit
Skookum
I'm facing:
I'm a not very wild-living 57 year old guy whose not travelled in
Europe for eons. In late January I am attending a conference for 5 days
in Hamburg. The meeting ends on a Thursday evening and my return flight
to North America goes from Hamburg Sunday morning. So I have a bit less
than two days to play with.
I could just tour and enjoy things around Hamburg for Friday and
Saturday or take an early train to Berlin Friday morning, overnight
there and return Saturday evening having spent two days in the German
capital.
My interests, you ask? I do like just mucking about in historic cities.
I like classical music and fine art though I'm no expert at either. I
might like to try to attend an opera or symphony but, again being no
connoisseur, the attraction fo doing so would probably be to be in some
fine old concert hall that is architecturally intriguing.
Thoughts? What would you do?
Juliana L Holm
I'd spend every possible minute visiting Hamburg while I was at the conference,
then see Berlin. Berlin clearly has everything that you're looking for, and
if you are interested in History, then you have the advantage in Berlin of
being able to present history from 15-17 years ago that is exciting and vital,
and the people who lived through it are still alive and vital and able to
talk about it.
That said, I have not yet ever been to Hamburg.
--
Julie
**********
Check out the blog of my 9 week Germany adventure at www.blurty.com/users/jholm
Check out my Travel Pages (non-commercial) at
http://www.dragonsholm.org/travel.htm
Visitor No 3
"Skookum" <nd...@uniserve.com> wrote in message
news:1135698166.7...@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
<< I could just tour and enjoy things around Hamburg for Friday and
Saturday or take an early train to Berlin Friday morning, overnight
there and return Saturday evening having spent two days in the German
capital.
Thoughts? What would you do?>>
Forget Berlin. Go for a creep on the cheap down the Reap. You'll remember it
a lot longer than you would Berlin. (Unless it's changed radically since I
was last there)
Juliana L Holm
When were you last there? Berlin has changed a lot since _I_ was last there,
in 2001 (to 2005). I think it's the most exciting city I've visited in Germany,
and I loved it. It's also very inexpensive. I have not been to Hamburg, as
I've said, but Berlin is very memorable, and has lots of history and art, which
the O.P. suggested (and which I think is not the main attraction of the
Reaperbahn?)
Julie
Runge
Boys will be boyz
http://www.reeperbahn1230.de/
"Juliana L Holm" <jh...@osf1.gmu.edu> a écrit dans le message de news:
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Juliana L Holm
not sure and not in a position to look it up.
That said, my comments still stand. The O.P. did not state the kind of
attractions that the Reeperbahn is known for - he cited history and art.
I think Berlin is a great choice.
Julie
Visitor No 3
"Juliana L Holm" <jh...@osf1.gmu.edu> wrote in message
news:dosak8$5569$1...@osf1.gmu.edu...
<< That said, my comments still stand. The O.P. did not state the kind of
attractions that the Reeperbahn is known for - he cited history and art.>>
You sound as though a night out on the Reeperbahn might do something to
improve your disposition.
If my memory serves me correctly, Berlin was bombed to the edge of oblivion
in WW2 and what was left was ransacked by the Red Army on their European
Tour of '45. Not many historic buildings there then. If you want living
German history, you could try the towns in Thuringia such as Weimar and
Eisenach, birth place of Bach. Since there wasn't much there except trees
before the DDR spoilt it with untrammelled industrialisation, it was left
fairly intact. If you like your history a bit more contemporary, you could
pop along to nearby Buchenwald. Or Leipzig where the seeds of destruction of
the DDR took root.
But Berlin?
Gregory Morrow
Visitor No 3 wrote:
> "Juliana L Holm" <jh...@osf1.gmu.edu> wrote in message
> news:dosak8$5569$1...@osf1.gmu.edu...
>
> << That said, my comments still stand. The O.P. did not state the kind of
> attractions that the Reeperbahn is known for - he cited history and art.>>
>
> You sound as though a night out on the Reeperbahn might do something to
> improve your disposition.
>
>
>
> If my memory serves me correctly, Berlin was bombed to the edge of oblivion
> in WW2 and what was left was ransacked by the Red Army on their European
> Tour of '45. Not many historic buildings there then.
There's a LOT more to history than "historic buildings". And Berlin is
positively *throbbing* with history...you can feel it all around you,
history is a living thing in Berlin.
If you want living
> German history, you could try the towns in Thuringia such as Weimar and
> Eisenach, birth place of Bach. Since there wasn't much there except trees
> before the DDR spoilt it with untrammelled industrialisation, it was left
> fairly intact. If you like your history a bit more contemporary, you could
> pop along to nearby Buchenwald. Or Leipzig where the seeds of destruction of
> the DDR took root.
You digress, the OP doesn't have time to investigate all that, he has
only a short time. Berlin would be perfect (but he'll have only time
to skim the highlights)....
> But Berlin?
Oh absolutely YES - Berlin!
--
Best
Greg
Gregory Morrow
Juliana L Holm wrote:
> Sorry. My spelling followed the previous poster's "the Reap", because I was
> not sure and not in a position to look it up.
>
> That said, my comments still stand. The O.P. did not state the kind of
> attractions that the Reeperbahn is known for - he cited history and art.
The Reeperbahn is just another red light district, you can find similar
in Amsterdam or Bangkok or wherever...
> I think Berlin is a great choice.
As Germany's most cosmopolitan city, it should be the first choice for
anyone desiring to visit a big city in Germany...no other large German
city can match it for history and attractions.
So yes, it's a great choice.
--
Best
Greg
Iceman
there and would recommend at least that long. Berlin isn't a city of
fabulous sights really, it's a city that really rewards exploration and
has so many places that reflect on its many layers of history - and so
it doesn't lend itself to a quick "highlights" visit. Talking to
Berliners about their experiences is a major draw of the city, and you
won't be able to do that if you are rushing from the Pergamon Altar to
Checkpoint Charlie to the Reichstag.
I would spend the two days in Hamburg, and save Berlin for a future
trip.
Runge
"Juliana L Holm" <jh...@osf1.gmu.edu> a écrit dans le message de news:
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Runge
"Visitor No 3" <Visit...@Google.com> a écrit dans le message de news:
11r3p4k...@corp.supernews.com...
Juliana L Holm
> If my memory serves me correctly, Berlin was bombed to the edge of oblivion
> in WW2 and what was left was ransacked by the Red Army on their European
> Tour of '45. Not many historic buildings there then. If you want living
> German history, you could try the towns in Thuringia such as Weimar and
> Eisenach, birth place of Bach. Since there wasn't much there except trees
> before the DDR spoilt it with untrammelled industrialisation, it was left
> fairly intact. If you like your history a bit more contemporary, you could
> pop along to nearby Buchenwald. Or Leipzig where the seeds of destruction of
> the DDR took root.
I absolutely agree about Thuringia, and Leipzig, and was just there in late
November. If there is any interest in religous history, the Wartburg and the
Augustiner Kloster in Erfurt are also important history (and the Wartburg is
just about the most historic castle in Germany, even without the Luther
connection).
That said, you would be wrong about Berlin. There are a number of historic
buildings that were not destroyed, including the opera, the museums on museums
insel, the Brandenburg Gate, Dom, Charlottenhof, many more. Many more than
one could see in two days. Plus some great museums, and of course all that
recent history - lots of DDR and Mauer history. Yes, the government buildings
that housed stuff like the Gestapo and SS were bombed and the famous church in
the West sector, but there is much that was not totally destroyed.
You must have not been to Berlin.
Juliana L Holm
> Visitor No 3 wrote:
>>
>> If my memory serves me correctly, Berlin was bombed to the edge of oblivion
>> in WW2 and what was left was ransacked by the Red Army on their European
>> Tour of '45. Not many historic buildings there then.
> There's a LOT more to history than "historic buildings". And Berlin is
> positively *throbbing* with history...you can feel it all around you,
> history is a living thing in Berlin.
Plus Visitor #3 is wrong. While Berlin was bombed, the city is geographically
huge and many historic buildings remained or were reconstructed. I've listed
some in another post, and it is easily enough for several days visit.
> If you want living
>> German history, you could try the towns in Thuringia such as Weimar and
>> Eisenach, birth place of Bach. Since there wasn't much there except trees
>> before the DDR spoilt it with untrammelled industrialisation, it was left
>> fairly intact. If you like your history a bit more contemporary, you could
>> pop along to nearby Buchenwald. Or Leipzig where the seeds of destruction of
>> the DDR took root.
> You digress, the OP doesn't have time to investigate all that, he has
> only a short time. Berlin would be perfect (but he'll have only time
> to skim the highlights)....
This is true.
> Oh absolutely YES - Berlin!
Definitely.
Juliana L Holm
> On 27 Dec 2005 17:48:55 -0800, "Gregory Morrow"
> <gregor...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>>> I think Berlin is a great choice.
>>
>>
>>As Germany's most cosmopolitan city, it should be the first choice for
>>anyone desiring to visit a big city in Germany...no other large German
>>city can match it for history and attractions.
> Not even Munich?
I don't think so. Munich is really nice, and I'd definitely recommend it,
but I spent a month in Berlin and there were things I did not get the chance
to see that I really wanted to - I've spent a total of about 9 or 10 days in
Munich and there isn't much I haven't seen that I want to.
But Munich has some really fantastic sights, and is a beautiful city. But,
no, I don't think it matches Berlin.
Juliana L Holm
> Berlin is a great city, but two days is not enough - I spent 5 days
> there and would recommend at least that long. Berlin isn't a city of
> fabulous sights really, it's a city that really rewards exploration and
> has so many places that reflect on its many layers of history - and so
> it doesn't lend itself to a quick "highlights" visit. Talking to
> Berliners about their experiences is a major draw of the city, and you
> won't be able to do that if you are rushing from the Pergamon Altar to
> Checkpoint Charlie to the Reichstag.
I tend to disagree. You are right that two days is not enough - I'd like to
go back and spend about a year there. :-) However, I think one can have a
wonderful visit to Berlin, and see a few of the sights, and spend some time
in a Kneipe talking with folks, too.
Alan (in Brussels)
According to today's Daily Telegraph (London) :
Hamburg facelift offers Beatles fans a glimpse of yesterday
By Kate Connolly in Hamburg
(Filed: 28/12/2005)
Hamburg's red-light district is to be given a makeover in time for next
year's World Cup with plans to bring to life the seedy neighbourhood where
the Beatles polished their act.
A Beatles Platz is in the offing, as well as the biggest ever exhibition on
the "Hamburg Sound", precursor of the "Merseybeat" which the group was
integral in shaping.
Tours of the Liverpool band's haunts, from the cinema where they slept on
metal beds to the snack bar where they ate hamburgers, will offer football
fans something to do other than visiting the city's notorious brothels.
The port has done little until now to exploit its connections to the band,
affectionately known in Germany as the "mushroom heads" because of their
haircuts.
The tens of thousands of tourists who come in search of landmarks and
plaques are not much catered for.
<SNIP>
So the OP will be just in time to see Hamburg before it gets tidied up out
of all recognition...
Regards,
- Alan (in Brussels)
Juliana L Holm
>>>>> I think Berlin is a great choice.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>As Germany's most cosmopolitan city, it should be the first choice for
>>>>anyone desiring to visit a big city in Germany...no other large German
>>>>city can match it for history and attractions.
>>
>>> Not even Munich?
>>
>>I don't think so. Munich is really nice, and I'd definitely recommend it,
>>but I spent a month in Berlin and there were things I did not get the chance
>>to see that I really wanted to - I've spent a total of about 9 or 10 days in
>>Munich and there isn't much I haven't seen that I want to.
>>
>>But Munich has some really fantastic sights, and is a beautiful city. But,
>>no, I don't think it matches Berlin.
> If you find 9-10 days to see everything you want to see in Munich, I
> think you aren't trying. I've spent half my life on and off working
> there and I am sure there are still things I haven't seen.
I probably should restate that - I'd gladly spend more time in Munich; it is
a really fun city, and the people are really interesting. There are certainly
things to see that I have not seen. BUT I've seen the major churches,
museums, buildings, schlosser, platzes etc. etc. in the relatively limited
time I've spent there. I'm certain I could spend a month there and see new
things, maybe even in some way better things, but I've "done" a much greater
percentage of Munich than I have Berlin.
And, as I said, I'd recommend Munich to someone in different circumstances.
> Nothing I have ever seen on TV of modern Berlin has ever made me want
> to go there.
I have no idea what you've seen on TV of Berlin, but I have not found TV to
be a great indicator of what a place is like, necessarily. I've been to
both, and I find Berlin more exciting, more, as someone else said, full of
living history, with art museums that blow the Munich ones away (note please
that the Deutsches Museum in Munich is the other way around - I haven't seen
anything in Berlin to compare to it).
I think Berlin is not to be missed, and frankly, if this person were spending
a week or so after his conference, I'd no doubt suggest Munich also.
In the context of this question, I continue to recommend Berlin.
Gregory Morrow
Iceman wrote:
> Berlin is a great city, but two days is not enough - I spent 5 days
> there and would recommend at least that long.
You can say that about most any great city...
Berlin isn't a city of
> fabulous sights really, it's a city that really rewards exploration and
> has so many places that reflect on its many layers of history - and so
> it doesn't lend itself to a quick "highlights" visit. Talking to
> Berliners about their experiences is a major draw of the city, and you
> won't be able to do that if you are rushing from the Pergamon Altar to
> Checkpoint Charlie to the Reichstag.
Although Berlin is a huge city you can see some of the basic sights in
the center by using public transport (bus) or there any number of
sightseeing bus tours that can give you an overview...
> I would spend the two days in Hamburg, and save Berlin for a future
> trip.
I'd go to Berlin, even if only to get a taste of the place. Who knows
when the OP will next be in the vicinity?
--
Best
Greg
Juliana L Holm
> Although Berlin is a huge city you can see some of the basic sights in
> the center by using public transport (bus) or there any number of
> sightseeing bus tours that can give you an overview...
For the Original Poster, in case you did not know, the Bus #100 runs from
Berlin Zoologischer Garten Bahnhof to Alexanderplatz Bahnhof. In the meantime
it runs a bit on Kurfurstendamm, past the Kaiser Whilhelm Gedachtniskirche,
through the Tiergarten, past the Victory Column, near the Reichstag and
governmental buildings, a block from Brandenburg Gate, past Humboldt University,
the Opera, Museumsinsel and the Dom, before driving past the Mareinkirche and
ending near the Fernsehturm in Alexanderplatz. It's a double decker bus and
runs usually several times an hour, and most hours of the day and night.
Another Bus, #200 runs a similar run, but goes via Potsdammer Platz instead
of through the Tiergarten.
>> I would spend the two days in Hamburg, and save Berlin for a future
>> trip.
> I'd go to Berlin, even if only to get a taste of the place. Who knows
> when the OP will next be in the vicinity?
Right
Sarah Banick
> Gregory Morrow <gregor...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>> Although Berlin is a huge city you can see some of the basic sights in
>> the center by using public transport (bus) or there any number of
>> sightseeing bus tours that can give you an overview...
>
> For the Original Poster, in case you did not know, the Bus #100 runs from
> Berlin Zoologischer Garten Bahnhof to Alexanderplatz Bahnhof. In the
> meantime
> it runs a bit on Kurfurstendamm, past the Kaiser Whilhelm
> Gedachtniskirche,
> through the Tiergarten, past the Victory Column, near the Reichstag and
> governmental buildings, a block from Brandenburg Gate, past Humboldt
> University,
> the Opera, Museumsinsel and the Dom, before driving past the Mareinkirche
> and
> ending near the Fernsehturm in Alexanderplatz. It's a double decker bus
> and
> runs usually several times an hour, and most hours of the day and night.
>
> Another Bus, #200 runs a similar run, but goes via Potsdammer Platz
> instead
>
> of through the Tiergarten.
>
>> when the OP will next be in the vicinity?
>
> Right
>
> --
> Julie
> **********
> Check out the blog of my 9 week Germany adventure at
> www.blurty.com/users/jholm
> Check out my Travel Pages (non-commercial) at
> http://www.dragonsholm.org/travel.htm
I'm gonna chime in on the Berlin thing. I spent a few weeks there in
September, and I love it. I was about to post a day's worth of activities
when Julie did it -- the center is easily seen in a day, if not in any
depth. But you'll get the feel. If you have a night stay in the east, say
Mitte or Prenzlauerberg. There is just so much energy!
Sarah
Jesper Lauridsen
>
> I could just tour and enjoy things around Hamburg for Friday and
> Saturday or take an early train to Berlin Friday morning, overnight
> there and return Saturday evening having spent two days in the German
> capital.
I've always found Hamburg to be uninteresting, while Berlin is a unique
city. Berlin is the obvious choice.
The train ride isn't that long; between 93 and 121 minutes, depending on
the type of train, so you could consider going there Thursday evening
and/or heading back to Hamburg Sunday morning. Having a full day is always
nice.