Lisbon
Padraig Breathnach
for the coming year. Unusually for us, we had to say that we had
nothing in prospect.
Today I addressed the deficit, and booked two trips. First, I booked a
ferry crossing to France in July. That's easy stuff. We know our way
around, and speak some French.
Then I checked for good deals on travel in the spring. A casual
exploration suddenly developed into a firm booking to go to Lisbon at
the end of February. We know almost nothing about Lisbon save where to
find it on the map and that the people there speak a dialect of
Brazilian. Oh, and something about a bridge.
So, folks, what should our programme be? We would welcome
recommendations on where to stay, what to eat and where to eat it,
what to do, and what to look at.
--
PB
The return address has been MUNGED
Runge
"Padraig Breathnach" <padr...@iol.ie> a écrit dans le message de news:
b7hbr110e816diagu...@4ax.com...
Kristian
>Then I checked for good deals on travel in the spring. A casual
>exploration suddenly developed into a firm booking to go to Lisbon at
>the end of February. We know almost nothing about Lisbon save where to
>find it on the map and that the people there speak a dialect of
>Brazilian. Oh, and something about a bridge.
Lisbon is a very good choice Padraig !
I went there for the first time this year, and didn´t really know what
to expect.My prior knowledge about Lisbon seems very similar to yours.
But I came back very impressed and found Lisbon to be one of the most
unique capitals of Europe - and perhaps also one of the most
overlooked.
You won´t regret going there - satisfaction 100% guaranteed !
A few practical notes on Lisbon:
To/from the airport:
Take the Aerobus 91 (3€). From the airport it runs thorugh the central
parts of Lisbon to Cais do Sodré. You can see the schedule and even
print out a route map from the "Carris" link below.
Getting around Lisbon:
Get a transportation day card from one of the metro stations for
3.10€. You can extend the card for any number of days for an
additional 2.5€ each. It works on the busses, the metro ,the trams
and even the historical elevadors. There are also a number of
"tourist" cards available , but I don´t know how good value they
offer.
http://www.carris.pt/en/index.php
Accomodation:
It will be difficult to find hotels in the central and historical
parts of Lisbon, but its not a big problem with the efficient metro.
But it would of course be a good idea to choose a hotel reasonably
close to a metro station.
Lots of hotels in this area with easy metro access:
http://en.venere.com/hotels_lisbon/sao_sebastiao_saldanha_monsanto/
The "Olissippo Marquês de Sá" sounds like a good deal - some random
dates in February shows rates at around 55€ a night.
And on this last day of 2005 - Happy New Year everybody !
--
Kristian
Padraig Breathnach
> Lisbon is a very good choice Padraig !
>
>I went there for the first time this year, and didn´t really know what
>to expect.My prior knowledge about Lisbon seems very similar to yours.
>But I came back very impressed and found Lisbon to be one of the most
>unique capitals of Europe - and perhaps also one of the most
>overlooked.
>You won´t regret going there - satisfaction 100% guaranteed !
>
> A few practical notes on Lisbon:
>
<snip>
That's very encouraging and helpful. Thank you, Kristian.
> And on this last day of 2005 - Happy New Year everybody !
>
And the same to you. But let us concentrate first on making the best
of what remains of 2005: I'm not postponing any joie de vivre!
Ulrich Neumann
> So, folks, what should our programme be? We would welcome
> recommendations on where to stay, what to eat and where to eat it,
> what to do, and what to look at.
- Go to Belém and visit the Tower of Belém/Torre de Belém and the
Jerónimos Monastery/Mosteiro dos Jerónimos
- Take a ride with tram #28. It takes you to a lot of Lisbon's sights.
- If you are into Art and even if you're not, visit the Gulbenkian
Museum/Museu Calouste Gulbenkian. It's free on Sundays.
- Go to the former Expo 98 site, now Nations Park/Parque das Nações.
There's is a shopping center nearby, you could go on a cable car ride or
just sit and relax and watch people passing by etc.
- Take a ride with one of the elevators/funiculars
- Visit the St. George's Castle/Castelo de Sâo Jorge, an old Moorish castle
- Visit Alfama, the city's oldest quarter, and Bairro Alto, if you want
to see Lisbon's nightlife.
Public transport will get you for "free" to all of these places if you
have a day pass, even tram #28 and the elevators/funiculars are included
in the day pass.
Ulrich
Padraig Breathnach
>Padraig Breathnach wrote:
>
>> So, folks, what should our programme be? We would welcome
>> recommendations on where to stay, what to eat and where to eat it,
>> what to do, and what to look at.
>
>- Go to Belém and visit the Tower of Belém/Torre de Belém and the
>Jerónimos Monastery/Mosteiro dos Jerónimos
>- Take a ride with tram #28. It takes you to a lot of Lisbon's sights.
>- If you are into Art and even if you're not, visit the Gulbenkian
>Museum/Museu Calouste Gulbenkian. It's free on Sundays.
>- Go to the former Expo 98 site, now Nations Park/Parque das Nações.
>There's is a shopping center nearby, you could go on a cable car ride or
>just sit and relax and watch people passing by etc.
>- Take a ride with one of the elevators/funiculars
>- Visit the St. George's Castle/Castelo de Sâo Jorge, an old Moorish castle
>- Visit Alfama, the city's oldest quarter, and Bairro Alto, if you want
>to see Lisbon's nightlife.
>
Thanks, Ulrich. That, combined with a bit of eating, drinking, and
getting lost, looks like sufficient programme for our four-day visit.
Ulrich Neumann
> To/from the airport:
> Take the Aerobus 91 (3€). From the airport it runs thorugh the central
> parts of Lisbon to Cais do Sodré. You can see the schedule and even
> print out a route map from the "Carris" link below.
This ticket also entitles you to free use of all Carris buses on the day
on which you have used the Aerobus.
Ulrich
pmlt
dialect of "Texan".
More seriously, Lisbon is not a very big city (for a capital standard)
and is very conveniently seen on foot (still some of the most scenic
views can be seen with the local tramway in the old neighbourhoods).
Several must sees:
1. The "baixa". This is the downtown, it starts in the "Praca do
Comercio", near the river, and all the blocks in the nearby are
interesting to visit (on foot). If you're into churches there are
plenty, if you're into overall lanscape views you'll love the Sta
Justa lift, if you're into good food there's plenty to choose from.
But you can expect to find what is the city rebuilt after the 1755
earthquake.
2. The "Belem" area, with a few city highlights (postal card
monuments) like the Torre de Belem, the Mosteiro dos Jeronimos. It's
also advisable that you find a pastry store, just 50m away from the
Mosteiro, that sells a cake called "pastel de belem". Whenever I go
there I eat about 10 of them, but it's up to you the quantity.
3. The "old neighbourhoods", including Alfama, Castelo, Mouraria. This
is the old heart of the city, with plenty of labyrinths and tiny
streets. Walking around is a very interesting experience, and of
course there's plenty of things to see. The old Castelo de Sao Jorge
is also one of the best views of the city. There's a tram, I think it
is the number 28, that covers most of this area and is worth doing the
fulll journey.
These for me are the top 3 areas of Lisbon, there are others worth
seeing if you have the time, including Estrela, Parque das Nacoes.
Also if you have more time available there's plenty to see just
outside Lisbon. Main areas of interest are Sintra (my favorite),
Cascais (not so much my type but the brits seem to like this area),
Mafra (more or less the Portuguese Escorial, or Versailles).
Jack Campin - bogus address
>> the map and that the people there speak a dialect of Brazilian.
> speak a dialect of "Texan".
It would be a better parallel to say that Londoners speak
a dialect of Barbadan. Which in some areas they do.
What both cities have in common is decayed imperial glory.
Lisbon never recovered from the loss of the Portuguese
colonies, just as London is full of monuments to conquests
that now look bizarrely stupid. And both cities have vast
populations of former colonial subjects and their descendants.
London has a lot more money, cultural activity and filth.
Lisbon is friendlier, cheaper and has much better weather.
============== j-c ====== @ ====== purr . demon . co . uk ==============
Jack Campin: 11 Third St, Newtongrange EH22 4PU, Scotland | tel 0131 660 4760
<http://www.purr.demon.co.uk/jack/> for CD-ROMs and free | fax 0870 0554 975
stuff: Scottish music, food intolerance, & Mac logic fonts | mob 07800 739 557
Padraig Breathnach
>More seriously, Lisbon is not a very big city (for a capital standard)
>and is very conveniently seen on foot (still some of the most scenic
>views can be seen with the local tramway in the old neighbourhoods).
>
>Several must sees:
>
<snip>
Thank you. The project file is building up.
eat in Belgium
Sintra is a worthwhile trip, get there by train, can also stay there in
a posh place.
Hotel in Lisbon was Novotel (I think) perfectly functional
and the sightseeing bus is the easiest way to see Lisbon
Andreas H. Zappel
>find it on the map and that the people there speak a dialect of
>Brazilian. Oh, and something about a bridge.
Brazil was a portugese colonie, so in Brazil they speak a dialect of
Portugese.
Greetings from Cologne
Andreas
Padraig Breathnach
>So, folks, what should our programme be? We would welcome
>recommendations on where to stay, what to eat and where to eat it,
>what to do, and what to look at.
My thanks to those who replied.
We didn't follow the hotel suggestions as they were for hotels outside
the centre. One advantage of travelling at the end of February is that
almost all places have rooms available, and at the low end of their
tariff scales. We have booked the Hotel Diplomático, which is fairly
central. Now all I need is for somebody here to give me a persuasive
reason to cancel that reservation!
I suppose that if I added up the time spent researching accommodation,
it would come to two or three hours. Some of that was spent trying
different booking sites, and finding different prices for the same
hotels. In the end we used venere.com because it delivered prices as
low as any, and our previous experience with them has been
satisfactory.
Our programme is still without much shape. It's basically a list of
targets in the city, and we will probably hit most of them by means of
happenstance and caprice. One day will be set aside for Sintra, and we
will take account of the weather forecast in choosing which one. Beach
activities are not on the programme.
We hope to eat well. It's likely that we will concentrate on seafood.
We are still hoping to get restaurant recommendations.
Still no guidebook, but I have found some online resources. We will
get a guidebook before we go.
We have four days, one of which is allocated to Sintra. The ratio of
indoor to outdoor tourism will be influenced by weather. Our liking
for fine art increases with rain and cold winds. In milder weather,
the flaneur style suits better.
I'm still in the market for advice and suggestions.
Padraig Breathnach
>Padraig Breathnach <padr...@iol.ie> wrote:
>
>>find it on the map and that the people there speak a dialect of
>>Brazilian. Oh, and something about a bridge.
>
>Brazil was a portugese colonie, so in Brazil they speak a dialect of
>Portugese.
>
Andreas, are you sure about this? Were you there at the time?
My take on it is that the Brazilians colonised Portugal. Given that
Europeans at the time didn't like foreigners (look at what happened
the Moors) the Brazilian settlers invented the story that they had
been in Portugal all along, and passed themselves off as Europeans.
Padraig Breathnach
>Sintra is a worthwhile trip, get there by train, can also stay there in
>a posh place.
>
In the programme. Thanks.
Markku Grönroos
"Padraig Breathnach" <padr...@MUNGEDiol.ie> kirjoitti
viestissä:1kp4s1p1f8fsa2bqb...@4ax.com...
anymore.
Jordi
Padraig Breathnach wrote:
> We have four days, one of which is allocated to Sintra. The ratio of
> indoor to outdoor tourism will be influenced by weather. Our liking
> for fine art increases with rain and cold winds. In milder weather,
> the flaneur style suits better.
>
If you are going to Sintra with a rental car, you could extend the
visit to Óbidos. It is extremely touristy but that shouldn't be a
problem in February. It's about 80 km. north of Lisbon (Sintra is about
30).
As per hotels, I always stay at the NH at Av. da Liberdade but the
Novotel and Ibis are generally very good value in Portugal. There are
also two Holiday Inn, that you can usually get for about 50 € a night
and are always a safe bet.
Be sure to sample at least two or three Angolan, Cape Verdian,
Brazilian, etc. restaurants, they are generally quite good, as well as
omnipresent bacalhau (cod)
I was once brought to a restaurant very adequately named 'O rei do
bacalhau' (King of cod) where I had a wonderful 'bacalhau esqueixado'.
That was some time ago and have no idea of its location apart that was
quite centric.
J.
Andreas H. Zappel
>tariff scales. We have booked the Hotel Diplomático, which is fairly
>central. Now all I need is for somebody here to give me a persuasive
>reason to cancel that reservation!
And old - and at a noisy street - and not very clean -and...
Only one good thing is there - it is really old style.
I did visit the Diplomatico in July - not as customer but as a buyer,
so I saw a bit more than only the rooms.
If you really look for a very central hotel try the Mundial.
If you prefer a view over the river towards the Ponte Vasco da Gamma
(bridge) take the VIP Arts Hotel or the Tivoli Tejo (but only in the
upper floors - 11 or higher). I myself would prefer the Arts - even
with the construction area in the front.
Greetings from Cologne
Andreas
Andreas H. Zappel
>>>find it on the map and that the people there speak a dialect of
>>>Brazilian. Oh, and something about a bridge.
>>Brazil was a portugese colonie, so in Brazil they speak a dialect of
>>Portugese.
>>
>Andreas, are you sure about this? Were you there at the time?
Of course I'm. Yes, I was. <bg>
Greetings from Cologne
Andreas
Padraig Breathnach
>Padraig Breathnach <padr...@MUNGEDiol.ie> wrote:
>
>>tariff scales. We have booked the Hotel Diplomático, which is fairly
>>central. Now all I need is for somebody here to give me a persuasive
>>reason to cancel that reservation!
>
>And old - and at a noisy street - and not very clean -and...
>Only one good thing is there - it is really old style.
>I did visit the Diplomatico in July - not as customer but as a buyer,
>so I saw a bit more than only the rooms.
>
Is it the hotel or the street that is not very clean? Do you mean that
I should be concerned about hygiene? That would decide things for us.
I had gathered that the hotel is not what you might call "fresh", but
that would not bother me a lot. It goes with old style, which we often
like.
>If you really look for a very central hotel try the Mundial.
>If you prefer a view over the river towards the Ponte Vasco da Gamma
>(bridge) take the VIP Arts Hotel or the Tivoli Tejo (but only in the
>upper floors - 11 or higher). I myself would prefer the Arts - even
>with the construction area in the front.
>
We would like fairly central. Views are not very important, as we
would expect to be out and about during the day.
We hoped to get something reasonable for about €70 or €75 a night. The
Diplomático is well below that at €59; the Mundial is above it at €86.
Is it worth the difference?
Thank you for your advice. It's great to have contact with people who
know the territory.
Padraig Breathnach
>Padraig Breathnach <padr...@MUNGEDiol.ie> wrote in
>news:1kp4s1p1f8fsa2bqb...@4ax.com:
>
>> My take on it is that the Brazilians colonised Portugal. Given that
>> Europeans at the time didn't like foreigners (look at what happened
>> the Moors) the Brazilian settlers invented the story that they had
>> been in Portugal all along, and passed themselves off as Europeans.
>>
>
>So, I guess that would make you an American, then? They do after all speak
>a dialect of American where you are from, no?
Yeah, right.
Andreas H. Zappel
>>>tariff scales. We have booked the Hotel Diplomático, which is fairly
>>>central. Now all I need is for somebody here to give me a persuasive
>>>reason to cancel that reservation!
>>
>>And old - and at a noisy street - and not very clean -and...
>>Only one good thing is there - it is really old style.
>>I did visit the Diplomatico in July - not as customer but as a buyer,
>>so I saw a bit more than only the rooms.
>>
>Is it the hotel or the street that is not very clean? Do you mean that
>I should be concerned about hygiene? That would decide things for us.
I mean the hotel - because the hotel is not resposible for the street.
>I had gathered that the hotel is not what you might call "fresh", but
>that would not bother me a lot. It goes with old style, which we often
>like.
The hotel is not only not fresh - but is looking the same like 10 or
more years ago. Inside it is looking old - to old not to often
repaired.
>>If you really look for a very central hotel try the Mundial.
>>If you prefer a view over the river towards the Ponte Vasco da Gamma
>>(bridge) take the VIP Arts Hotel or the Tivoli Tejo (but only in the
>>upper floors - 11 or higher). I myself would prefer the Arts - even
>>with the construction area in the front.
>>
>We would like fairly central. Views are not very important, as we
>would expect to be out and about during the day.
Even in the evening the view from the VIP Art's is great.
>We hoped to get something reasonable for about €70 or €75 a night. The
>Diplomático is well below that at €59; the Mundial is above it at €86.
>Is it worth the difference?
IMHO yes, but I don't know the Mundial personally.
Greetings from Cologne
Andreas
Jordi
Andreas H. Zappel wrote:
>
> >We hoped to get something reasonable for about €70 or €75 a night. The
> >Diplomático is well below that at €59; the Mundial is above it at €86.
> >Is it worth the difference?
>
> IMHO yes, but I don't know the Mundial personally.
>
For the Diplomático price tag, you can get a room at the Ibis near Av.
Liberdade or (less central) at the Holiday Inn.
J.
DDT Filled Mormons
DDT Filled Mormons
wrote:
>On Mon, 09 Jan 2006 17:57:14 +0100, in rec.travel.europe, Andreas H. Zappel
><az-del...@ch-is.net> arranged some electrons, so they looked like this :
>
> ... Padraig Breathnach <padr...@MUNGEDiol.ie> wrote:
> ...
> ... >tariff scales. We have booked the Hotel Diplomático, which is fairly
> ... >central. Now all I need is for somebody here to give me a persuasive
> ... >reason to cancel that reservation!
> ...
> ... And old - and at a noisy street - and not very clean -and...
> ... Only one good thing is there - it is really old style.
> ... I did visit the Diplomatico in July - not as customer but as a buyer,
> ... so I saw a bit more than only the rooms.
> ...
> ... If you really look for a very central hotel try the Mundial.
> ... If you prefer a view over the river towards the Ponte Vasco da Gamma
> ... (bridge) take the VIP Arts Hotel or the Tivoli Tejo (but only in the
> ... upper floors - 11 or higher). I myself would prefer the Arts - even
> ... with the construction area in the front.
>
>Avoid the Amazonas, too. Worst hotel I have ever stayed in.
That's an awfully big call! What made it so horrid?
eatinBelgium
Padraig Breathnach wrote:
> "eat in Belgium" <michael...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >Sintra is a worthwhile trip, get there by train, can also stay there in
> >a posh place.
> >
> In the programme. Thanks.
>
Padraig Breathnach
Okay, I have looked at the Accor Hotels site. It's not very helpful at
indicating the location of the hotels to somebody who does not already
have a reasonably good knowledge of the city. It took me a while to
work out that Av. Liberdade is a good location.
Is it a standard Ibis -- adequate room, good bed, television, decent
bathroom, all fairly boring but very clean? If it is, then we might go
for it.
We would have settled for faded grandeur in the Diplomático (we are
faded grandeur types) but we don't like questionable hygiene. That
reservation has been cancelled -- another advantage of using
venere.com, as there is no penalty.
Thanks for the idea.
Padraig Breathnach
>In Lisbon, one has to eat those great "pastéizinhos de nata", too.
What are they? Give me at least a clue: do I order them for breakfast,
or as a main course at dinner, or what? [I suspect they are cakes.]
Padraig Breathnach
>
>Padraig Breathnach wrote:
>
>> We have four days, one of which is allocated to Sintra. The ratio of
>> indoor to outdoor tourism will be influenced by weather. Our liking
>> for fine art increases with rain and cold winds. In milder weather,
>> the flaneur style suits better.
>>
>
>If you are going to Sintra with a rental car, you could extend the
>visit to Óbidos. It is extremely touristy but that shouldn't be a
>problem in February. It's about 80 km. north of Lisbon (Sintra is about
>30).
>
and inexpensive rail service to Sintra.
...
>Be sure to sample at least two or three Angolan, Cape Verdian,
>Brazilian, etc. restaurants, they are generally quite good, as well as
>omnipresent bacalhau (cod)
>
Hey! We have only four days. I think we will give priority to
Portuguese cooking.
Is bachalau salted? Cod is among the fish we like less, and we don't
like salted food. Do the Portuguese share the Spanish liking for hake?
That would please us.
Padraig Breathnach
Purely coincidence. True Americans are the only people for whom a
double positive is a negative (yeah, right). I'm really Canadian, a
Newfie. Have you heard the 'r' sound there? And the 't' and 'd'
sounds?
Padraig Breathnach
>On Mon, 09 Jan 2006 20:02:07 +0000, in rec.travel.europe, Padraig Breathnach
><padr...@MUNGEDiol.ie> arranged some electrons, so they looked like this :
>
> ... Magda <ma...@chriscross.hello> wrote:
> ...
> ... >In Lisbon, one has to eat those great "pastéizinhos de nata", too.
> ...
> ... What are they? Give me at least a clue: do I order them for breakfast,
> ... or as a main course at dinner, or what? [I suspect they are cakes.]
>
>Nope. You queue up on the pavement with all the other addicts - after dinner.
>
>No cakes, either. They are a cream filled, fried pastry, covered in confectionary's sugar,
>eaten warm. Slurp!
Cholesterol bombs, by the sound of it. Herself and I might share the
risk.
Andreas H. Zappel
>>In Lisbon, one has to eat those great "pastéizinhos de nata", too.
>
>What are they? Give me at least a clue: do I order them for breakfast,
>or as a main course at dinner, or what? [I suspect they are cakes.]
A sweet - and not a meal.
The best ones are available in Belem (Pasteis de Belem).
Atschuess
Andreas
Andreas H. Zappel
>We are not planning to rent a car. I understand that there is a good
>and inexpensive rail service to Sintra.
There is.
>Is bachalau salted? Cod is among the fish we like less, and we don't
>like salted food.
Which one of the 1001 ways to prepare it?
The base produkt is extremly salted and hard (and not to eat). It goes
into water for 24 hours to get all the salt away.
Greetings from Cologne
Andreas
B Vaughan
<az-del...@ch-is.net> wrote:
>>Is bachalau salted? Cod is among the fish we like less, and we don't
>>like salted food.
>
>Which one of the 1001 ways to prepare it?
>The base produkt is extremly salted and hard (and not to eat). It goes
>into water for 24 hours to get all the salt away.
If it's anything like Italian baccala, you'd have to soak it for years
to get all the salt away.
--
Barbara Vaughan
My email address is my first initial followed by my surname at libero dot it
I answer travel questions only in the newsgroup
Jordi
Padraig Breathnach wrote:
> "Jordi" <jord...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >
> >Andreas H. Zappel wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> >We hoped to get something reasonable for about €70 or €75 a night. The
> >> >Diplomático is well below that at €59; the Mundial is above it at €86.
> >> >Is it worth the difference?
> >>
> >> IMHO yes, but I don't know the Mundial personally.
> >>
> >
> >For the Diplomático price tag, you can get a room at the Ibis near Av.
> >Liberdade or (less central) at the Holiday Inn.
> >
> Okay, I have looked at the Accor Hotels site. It's not very helpful at
> indicating the location of the hotels to somebody who does not already
> have a reasonably good knowledge of the city. It took me a while to
> work out that Av. Liberdade is a good location.
>
> Is it a standard Ibis -- adequate room, good bed, television, decent
> bathroom, all fairly boring but very clean? If it is, then we might go
> for it.
>
Just seen it from the outside, as I usually go to Lisbon on business so
I always stay in the NH that is somehow more expensive. Anyway, every
Ibis I've stayed has always been the same, and the Portuguese ones are
fairly new (about 5 years old, IIRC).
Be sure to check if your quotation includes breakfast, as most accor
group hotels do not and this has brought some surprises in the past.
J.
Jordi
B Vaughan wrote:
> On Tue, 10 Jan 2006 08:01:47 +0100, Andreas H. Zappel
> <az-del...@ch-is.net> wrote:
>
> >>Is bachalau salted? Cod is among the fish we like less, and we don't
> >>like salted food.
> >
> >Which one of the 1001 ways to prepare it?
> >The base produkt is extremly salted and hard (and not to eat). It goes
> >into water for 24 hours to get all the salt away.
>
> If it's anything like Italian baccala, you'd have to soak it for years
> to get all the salt away.
> --
It's exactly the same, but Portuguese restaurants also include a fair
amount of recipes for fresh cod.
Anyway, and back to salted cod, my fav is 'esqueixado', when well done
it's no more salty than any other standard seafood.
For faster food, you may try a sande de leitao (suckling pig sandwich),
it's really a northern recipe, but should be found in Lisbon, too.
For real fast food, there is a chain of which I can't remember the name
which serves soups, fruit juices, salads and pasta of incredibly
consistent quality and good value. There is one in the commercial
gallery below the NH at Av. da Liberdade, but I'm sure there will be
more out there (I've seen them in provincial towns, so I gather there
will be more). You will also see that Pans & company has opened a few
outlets here and there.
J.
Des Small
> On 10 Jan 2006 03:26:09 -0800, in rec.travel.europe, "Jordi" <jord...@gmail.com>
> arranged some electrons, so they looked like this :
>
>
> > It's exactly the same, but Portuguese restaurants also include a fair
> > amount of recipes for fresh cod.
>
> I ate fresh cod - *once*. It has an unforgettable taste of nothing.
Fresh cod is the deliciousest of fishies! It is meltingly delicately
yummacious, especially when battered and deep fried and served with
delicous chips.
Salt cod is yummy too, of course.
Des
Jordi
Magda wrote:
> On 10 Jan 2006 03:26:09 -0800, in rec.travel.europe, "Jordi" <jord...@gmail.com>
> arranged some electrons, so they looked like this :
>
>
> ... amount of recipes for fresh cod.
>
> I ate fresh cod - *once*. It has an unforgettable taste of nothing.
It's not a fish to be eaten on its own, fresh cod is here used to make
dumplings for rice as well as being an important part of the sauce
(suquet, arros a banda, caldereta marinera, etc.).
Else, you need to cook with a strong sauce (ajoarriero, salsa verde,
etc.)
J.
Padraig Breathnach
>
>Padraig Breathnach wrote:
>> Is it a standard Ibis -- adequate room, good bed, television, decent
>> bathroom, all fairly boring but very clean? If it is, then we might go
>> for it.
>
>Just seen it from the outside, as I usually go to Lisbon on business so
>I always stay in the NH that is somehow more expensive.
>
I can't get anybody to underwrite the cost of a trip to Lisbon for me,
so I am going the cheapskate route.
>Anyway, every
>Ibis I've stayed has always been the same, and the Portuguese ones are
>fairly new (about 5 years old, IIRC).
>
That sounds okay.
>Be sure to check if your quotation includes breakfast, as most accor
>group hotels do not and this has brought some surprises in the past.
>
It doesn't include breakfast, but that's what one should expect with
Ibis. It's a good idea to remind people of such things: those unused
to that style of hotel are sometimes caught by surprise.
It's now booked. I suppose that somebody will now come along with a
persuasive reason why we shouldn't go there, and it will be back again
to the drawing-board.
I am, as ever, grateful to all those tendering advice.
And we are not going to eat cod, fresh or salted.
Jordi
>
> And we are not going to eat cod, fresh or salted.
>
Then you're missing 40% of Portuguese cuisine :)
J.
Padraig Breathnach
>
>Padraig Breathnach wrote:
>>
>> And we are not going to eat cod, fresh or salted.
>>
>
>Then you're missing 40% of Portuguese cuisine :)
>
I think that 60% will suffice for four days!
pfriedmanNoSpam
news:a5m6s1h8nttn6sqsk...@4ax.com...
I have a friend who KNOWS these are better than sex. Last time we were in
Lisbon (November), he made it to Pasteis de Belem 7 days in a row.
They are quite good -- particularly when eaten warm right out of the oven.
Paul
Padraig Breathnach
>"Andreas H. Zappel" <az-del...@ch-is.net> wrote in message
>news:a5m6s1h8nttn6sqsk...@4ax.com...
>> Padraig Breathnach <padr...@MUNGEDiol.ie> wrote:
>>
>>>>In Lisbon, one has to eat those great "pastéizinhos de nata", too.
>>>
>>>What are they? Give me at least a clue: do I order them for breakfast,
>>>or as a main course at dinner, or what? [I suspect they are cakes.]
>>
>> A sweet - and not a meal.
>> The best ones are available in Belem (Pasteis de Belem).
>>
>I have a friend who KNOWS these are better than sex.
I hope that friend is not your sexual partner.
Jack Campin - bogus address
>> we don't like salted food.
> Which one of the 1001 ways to prepare it?
> The base produkt is extremly salted and hard (and not to eat).
> It goes into water for 24 hours to get all the salt away.
Get Edite Vieira's book on Portuguese cooking, it gives you
a good idea what to expect.
You can also get ex-Portuguese-colonial food from all over
the world, it's a great mixture of options.
============== j-c ====== @ ====== purr . demon . co . uk ==============
Jack Campin: 11 Third St, Newtongrange EH22 4PU, Scotland | tel 0131 660 4760
<http://www.purr.demon.co.uk/jack/> for CD-ROMs and free | fax 0870 0554 975
stuff: Scottish music, food intolerance, & Mac logic fonts | mob 07800 739 557
Andreas H. Zappel
>>>>In Lisbon, one has to eat those great "pastéizinhos de nata", too.
>>>What are they? Give me at least a clue: do I order them for breakfast,
>>>or as a main course at dinner, or what? [I suspect they are cakes.]
>> A sweet - and not a meal.
>> The best ones are available in Belem (Pasteis de Belem).
>
>I have a friend who KNOWS these are better than sex. Last time we were in
>Lisbon (November), he made it to Pasteis de Belem 7 days in a row.
I was in December in Lisbon - and didn't eat one.
Belem was partly "closed" because of the start of the Ralley Lisbon -
Dakar.
Greetings from Cologne
Andreas
Andreas H. Zappel
>>> Is bachalau salted? Cod is among the fish we like less, and
>>> we don't like salted food.
>> Which one of the 1001 ways to prepare it?
>> The base produkt is extremly salted and hard (and not to eat).
>> It goes into water for 24 hours to get all the salt away.
>
>Get Edite Vieira's book on Portuguese cooking, it gives you
>a good idea what to expect.
Nao preciso. <g>
Thank you, but I'm married with a portuguese wife. <g>
Greetings from Cologne
Andreas
Andreas H. Zappel
>>Be sure to check if your quotation includes breakfast, as most accor
>>group hotels do not and this has brought some surprises in the past.
>>
>It doesn't include breakfast, but that's what one should expect with
>Ibis.
Than don't have your breakfast in the hotel, but take it in one of the
coffes on the street (p.e. in the Suica at the Rossio).
Greetings from Cologne
Andreas
David Horne, _the_ chancellor of the duchy of besses o' th' barn and prestwich tesco 24h offy
> >> Is bachalau salted? Cod is among the fish we like less, and
> >> we don't like salted food.
> > Which one of the 1001 ways to prepare it?
> > The base produkt is extremly salted and hard (and not to eat).
> > It goes into water for 24 hours to get all the salt away.
>
> Get Edite Vieira's book on Portuguese cooking, it gives you
> a good idea what to expect.
>
> You can also get ex-Portuguese-colonial food from all over
> the world, it's a great mixture of options.
I had a home-cooked portuguese-style paella in Boston over the holidays-
the family member in question originally being from there. It was quite
unlike one I'd ever tasted in Spain. Lobster (in the shell but
separated), huge clams, mussels, unshelled shrimp, chicken and chorizo.
It was on top of the rice, but not cooked in it. Other herbs and spices
too. It was so delicious, I'd have to be careful where to ever order
another one in a restaurant. (I've not been to Valencia yet though, and
what I've read of a Valencian paella sounds good.)
The whole thread has reminded me that I haven't visited Portugal yet,
and this is something I ought to put right.
--
David Horne- http://www.davidhorne.net
usenet (at) davidhorne (dot) co (dot) uk
http://homepage.mac.com/davidhornecomposer http://soundjunction.org
DDT Filled Mormons
<p.paulfrie...@comcast.net> wrote:
>"Andreas H. Zappel" <az-del...@ch-is.net> wrote in message
>news:a5m6s1h8nttn6sqsk...@4ax.com...
>> Padraig Breathnach <padr...@MUNGEDiol.ie> wrote:
>>
>>>>In Lisbon, one has to eat those great "pastéizinhos de nata", too.
>>>
>>>What are they? Give me at least a clue: do I order them for breakfast,
>>>or as a main course at dinner, or what? [I suspect they are cakes.]
>>
>> A sweet - and not a meal.
>> The best ones are available in Belem (Pasteis de Belem).
>>
>> Atschuess
>>
>> Andreas
>
>I have a friend who KNOWS these are better than sex.
How crap can sex be?
--
---
DFM - http://www.deepfriedmars.com
---
--
pmlt
<padr...@MUNGEDiol.ie> wrote:
>Magda <ma...@chriscross.hello> wrote:
>
>>In Lisbon, one has to eat those great "pastéizinhos de nata", too.
>
>What are they? Give me at least a clue: do I order them for breakfast,
>or as a main course at dinner, or what? [I suspect they are cakes.]
When you're in front of the Mosteiro dos Jeronimos, in Belem (facing
the monastery), walk left for about 50m, and you'll find the unique
"Pasteis de Belem" shop. If you want a "pastel de nata", you'll find
in any pastry shop.
pmlt
Where's my head... do not turn left (you'll just find the
Planetarium!), turn right instead.
Andreas H. Zappel
Jordi
David Horne, _the_ chancellor of the duchy of besses o' th' barn and
prestwich tesco 24h offy wrote:
>
> I had a home-cooked portuguese-style paella in Boston over the holidays-
> the family member in question originally being from there. It was quite
> unlike one I'd ever tasted in Spain. Lobster (in the shell but
> separated), huge clams, mussels, unshelled shrimp, chicken and chorizo.
> It was on top of the rice, but not cooked in it. Other herbs and spices
> too. It was so delicious, I'd have to be careful where to ever order
> another one in a restaurant. (I've not been to Valencia yet though, and
> what I've read of a Valencian paella sounds good.)
>
Both are totally different things, I'm not specially fond of seafood
per se, so give me a Valencian one anytime.
Just in case you wonder, paella is just the name of the pan in which
both dishes are done.
J.