"Free Tours" operator is outed in German TV news broadcast
Keith Anderson
So Chris Sandemans New Europe Tours are not actually "free".....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C9jWhGn93hw
News item in English (hope the link works)
http://www.thelocal.de/jobs/20100311-25813.html
further discussion:
http://www.ricksteves.com/blog/index.cfm?fuseaction=entry&entryID=411
Keith Anderson, Geprüfter Stadtführer/Qualified Berlin Guide.
(Verband der Berliner Statdtführer/Berlin Guide e.V.)
Tom P
I guess you could extend this practice to other employment areas, like
having restaurants where the waitresses pay for the privilege of working
and rely on tips?
tim....
"Tom P" <wero...@freent.dd> wrote in message
news:80c2sb...@mid.individual.net...
Do they have those jobs in Germany -I know that they have some where the
waitress gets paid a percentage of the food ordered (served), but that's not
quite the same thing.
tim
>
Runge11
"Martin" <m...@address.invalid> a écrit dans le message de groupe de
discussion : t302q51lnlr72p2i4...@4ax.com...
> and bar jobs.
> --
>
> Martin
>
smoothmyhackles
release in New Europe's corporate site. It does not appear to answer
the ZDF Frontal21 point about taking back tips from the guides when
the tours are advertised as free. It does however make a big deal
about competitors spreading the news of the program around Europe -
well, they would wouldn't they!
Could New Europe's guides come forward and tell us what is going on
here please with the tips issue?
Pleased to see this forum exists.
smoothmyhackles
n Mar 16, 5:48 pm, Keith Anderson <ke...@privacy.net> wrote:
> So Chris Sandemans New EuropeToursare not actually "free".....
FairTrade...@hotmail.com
wrote:
> A reply (of sorts)...
Agreed, it's mostly talk, and doesn't really address the ZDF
allegations at all, above all Sandemans New Europe guides earning
pretty poor money. €19 for four hours work, with no benefits, like we
saw on TV? As has been observed elsewhere, you could make more selling
Strassenfeger / Big Issue. Or even owing Sandemans money for the
doubtful pleasure of working for him!
Tim Fairhurst of the ETOA (European Tour Operators Association) rushes
to Sandeman's rescue. Who is Tim Fairhurst that he can defend wages
and conditions like this? Does he think that is fair on these
apparently badly exploited young people? Does the ETOA think it is OK
to have employment contracts rated as 'crudely illegal' by a professor
of law, or does the ETOA think it is fine for their members to play
fast and lose with national laws?
Mxsmanic
Some things are being left unsaid here.
First, most cities and localities do not require licensing of tour guides; it
is a logistic nightmare and does nothing but further impoverise guides by
forcing them to pay more money to the state (in addition to sales taxes,
income taxes, and other "contributions" that they must make as regular
business people).
Second, a great many "respectable" tour companies use a nearly identical
business model: the tour leader actually pays the tour company for the
"privilege" of leading the tour, and then makes his money from tips and from
commissions on side trips and events that he sells to customers on the tour.
The companies doing this are large, well-established, international tour
companies, and their guides make a great deal of money in many cases, despite
the fact that they are paying the tour company.
I notice that the sources above don't actually provide the math, but 38 people
times fifty cents net is 19 euro, and, depending on the length of the tour,
this is not necessarily a bad wage. The only dishonest part of the "Free
Tours" is that customers are not told that the guide has to pay money no
matter what--at the better companies, customers aren't told this, either, but
since they are _required_ to pay for the tour, the guide is guaranteed a
minimum amount of money per person, and thus easily turns a profit.
Many tour directors and guides also receive kickbacks from businesses to which
they lead their clients. This is illegal, but it happens all the time, anyway.
Overall, the legal details and ethical details are sometimes fuzzy, but it has
worked this way for years.
Mxsmanic
> I guess you could extend this practice to other employment areas, like
> having restaurants where the waitresses pay for the privilege of working
> and rely on tips?
It has already been done.
Mxsmanic
> Agreed, it's mostly talk, and doesn't really address the ZDF
> allegations at all, above all Sandemans New Europe guides earning
> pretty poor money. €19 for four hours work, with no benefits, like we
> saw on TV? As has been observed elsewhere, you could make more selling
> Strassenfeger / Big Issue. Or even owing Sandemans money for the
> doubtful pleasure of working for him!
The problem is that it's very difficult to get a regular job if you don't have
working papers.
> Tim Fairhurst of the ETOA (European Tour Operators Association) rushes
> to Sandeman's rescue. Who is Tim Fairhurst that he can defend wages
> and conditions like this?
Tourism has always paid dirt to field workers. There's nothing new about that.
> Does he think that is fair on these apparently badly exploited young
> people?
If they are operating without work permits, who is exploiting whom? The
practice isn't limited to tourism (which depends on it to some extent, in some
cases). A lot of bars and restaurants hire people without papers, too, and
then pay them less than minimum wage. The irony is that they may make more
illegally at less than minimum wage than they would legally at more than
minimum wage, since the standard deductions (which are often huge) are not
being made.
> Does the ETOA think it is OK
> to have employment contracts rated as 'crudely illegal' by a professor
> of law, or does the ETOA think it is fine for their members to play
> fast and lose with national laws?
Ultimately it's supply and demand. If there are people willing to take these
jobs, then the jobs will continue to exist. And if people are taking jobs that
exploit them in this way, then one can only assume that they aren't able to
get any better jobs. Depriving them of the only jobs they can get doesn't
really help anyone, does it?
Mxsmanic
> "SANDEMANs NEW Europe employs over 50 full-time staff members, who all
> receive a wage, holiday, health insurance, and social insurance. As is
> standard with tour operators and city tour companies across Germany
> and Europe, SANDEMANs NEW Europe maintains a freelance relationship
> with some tour guides." The biggest lie i have ever heard. But we're
> fired every 3 months, so no chance for social security. 12 secretarys
> in one year. Guides for just a season. Bad quality and just money-
> making. He lives on a different planet
Practices like that are par for the course in the tourism industry, in many
markets.
JohnT
Where?
--
JohnT
Per Hodgkinson
FairtradeinTourism is almost certainly a fake group, and was recently
set up on Facebook (as well as recently having registered on multiple
blogs) and currently is highly suspected of being a direct competitor
of SANDEMANs NEW Europe determined to push a smear campaign out to the
public.
1) Notice, that FairtradeinTourism has no website, no contact person,
not a single person in their 'group' willing to say who they are.
Highly suspect.
2) Even though the practices of SANDEMANs NEW Europe are the norm
across Europe, FairtradeinToursim only attacks SANDEMANs and has never
mentioned a single other provider or issue anywhere else. Also
suspicious.
3) FairtadeinTourism has never once contacted SANDEMANs NEW Europe to
open discussion about the situation and/or how to improve things in
tourism, at SANDEMANs, or with the story from 2DF which has been
clearly shown to be a lot of hot air.
A German warrant has been issued already for FairtradeinTourism as a
'warrant against unknown', so any help in identifying who is behind
FairtradeinTourism would be appreciated. He/She has been caught
sending out emails making false claims to Travel Guide books to
attempt to sully SANDEMANs NEW Europe, and signing with a fake name.
I'd suggest anyone take FairtradeinTourism seriously: as the words of
a direct competitor and how emotional and mean-spirited some elements
of the tourism industry can be. Hopefully, it will stop soon, but
really FairtradeinTourism is a symptom, not the problem. Maybe
ProffessionalCompetitionInTourism would be a good next group to open.
FairtradeinTourism, if you're reading this: why don't you tell the
community who you are? It would go a long way to supporting your
arguments.
SANDEMANs NEW Europe
FairTrade...@hotmail.com
wrote:
Hi Sandemans,
Reading this all right. You've had our email address from the start,
so you could have written to us at any time, but if you want to
discuss here then fine.
Who are we? A handful of guides who cannot compete with the free tours
and are being driven out of business by them. So you could call us
'competitors' but we're not some company. We have no assets and no
legal defence, hence our anonymity. None of those who have joined the
group on facebook have anything to do with us. Same as the anonymity
we suspect you have chosen for yourself in your postings on internet
forums til now.
FairTradeInTourism is no more fake than the various alias' we suspect
senior Sandemans people have been posting under since the ZDF story
broke. However, we welcome the fact that you are now coming out into
the open.
This group did not exist until the ZDF allegations made against
Sandemans. Before the programme, we had just thought we were being
crushed by fair competition. After the ZDF programme we mobilised,
since the ZDF program accused Sandemans of exploitation and
illegality. With respect to the 'smear campaign', Fair Trade In
Tourism has been careful to do nothing more than repeat the
allegations made by ZDF TV. You cannot have a smear campaign that
consists of reporting the news. Fair Trade In Tourism denies ever
having made allegations against Sandemans that were not previously
made by ZDF, and sought only to get Sandemans to answer to ZDF's
charges, which until yesterday, they had not - a long period of
silence which is Sandeman's responsibilty, not ours. FTIT's only
public and private postings have been in search of making people aware
of the ZDF allegations and seeking answers and responses to the ZDF
allegations, and never a smear campaign, since Sandemans was making no
response.
However, you suggest that you are now intending to seek legal redress
against ZDF TV's allegations, and challenge their allegations in
court. Fair Trade In Tourism has said since this story broke that only
the courts will decide whether there is any merit to ZDF's
allegations. Very well! Then ZDF can prove its allegations in court,
or see them disproved there. FTIT seeks nothing more than this.
Now that it is apparent that Sandemans officially denies the
allegations made against it, and intends to seek legal redress against
those who made those allegations -ZDF TV- Fair Trade will leave that
process to run its course.
Yes it will 'stop'. Fair Trade in Tourism will now indeed disband for
good, and cease repeating ZDF's allegations on other sites, and let
justice take its course.
May the truth come out and the best side win.
FTIT signing out
Mxsmanic
> A German warrant has been issued already for FairtradeinTourism as a
> 'warrant against unknown' ...
Fortunately, Germany does not rule the world, irrespective of any illusions it
may have to the contrary.
> He/She has been caught
> sending out emails making false claims to Travel Guide books to
> attempt to sully SANDEMANs NEW Europe, and signing with a fake name.
What sorts of false claims?
Are Sandeman's guides required to pay the company whether they receive tips or
not? Are they forbidden to tell customers this?
tim....
"Mxsmanic" <mxsm...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:dk77q512bat0g8dpt...@4ax.com...
The previous article said yes
tim
Mxsmanic
> It is Per Hodgkinson and his associates who have issued a warrant in Germany and
> not the German government.
So people in Germany can issue warrants without the state's participation? The
situation is worse than I thought.
Mxsmanic
> If you read their defence to the accusations made by ZDF on their website, I
> think the answer is yes too.
So what were the false claims?