Segovia or Toledo?
Vianey
I was wondering if anybody could comment on any of those cities. I am
going to Madrid and I want to have a day trip. I can't decide which
city to visit.
Thanks a lot
Vianey
ntaylor
Try to get both if you can, not on the same day though,
if there has to just one then probably Toledo.
VG
news:35683ae6.02032...@posting.google.com...
I visited both and enjoyed both.
The cathedral and the aqueduct in Segovia were very memorable, and the
streets were much more lively than Toledo, I thought.
The Alcazar in Toledo was a wonderfully done museum, and the cathedral was
my second favorite one in the country (second to Seville). The Monastery is
worth an hour or two.
You only have time to visit one??
-VG
Oopsdaisy2
>From: via...@yahoo.com (Vianey)
>Date: 3/27/2002 3:04 PM
Toledo if you are an art or history buff.
Segovia for scenery or architecture.
Obviously this is a vast generalization.
Barbara Vaughan
Vianey wrote:
>
> Hi,
> I was wondering if anybody could comment on any of those cities. I am
> going to Madrid and I want to have a day trip. I can't decide which
> city to visit.
It would help a lot if we knew what sorts of things you enjoy. I visited
both cities last spring and enjoyed both. I believe the travel time to
Toledo is a bit shorter if that makes a difference, but it is also a
larger city and may take more than a day to really see.
Toledo has more in the way of museums and art. Segovia is more of a city
to walk around enjoying the views and the ambiance. The castle in
Segovia is one of the most beautiful I've ever seen. To really
appreciate it, you should exit the walled center and take a walk below
the cliff to see it looming above you.
Barbara
CB
I also think of El Escorial and Valle de los Caidos.
I've done both tours and personally I would prefer the Toledo-El
Escorial-Valle de los Caidos tour over the Avila-Segovia one.
"Vianey" <via...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:35683ae6.02032...@posting.google.com...
Barbara Vaughan
CB wrote:
>
> When I think of Segovia, I also think of Avila. Also, when visiting Toledo,
> I also think of El Escorial and Valle de los Caidos.
El Escorial is closer to Segovia than it is to Toledo. (I believe That
the Valle de los Caidos is more or less in the same general vicinity.)
Avila is a little closer to Segovia than to Toledo, but it's an easy
trip from either city.
Barbara
David
historical. The cathedral in Segovia is beautiful. But so is the one
in Toledo. Toledo seemed more geared to tourists. I liked Segovia
because it was more laid back. It was easier to navigate. If your
pressed for time, I'd say go to Toledo. If you have more time and can
actually spend a night, go to Segovia.
Mariangela Senes
I have been in Madrid for a long time and i vesited Toled.
It's a turistic little town, but it's nice u can visite it less then one
day.
Don't eat paella there, it's for tourist!!!
Have a nice trip!!
"Vianey" <via...@yahoo.com> ha scritto nel messaggio
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plmen...@asturlinux.org
I haven't visited none of these, but I won't die without visiting Toledo. That's
my advice!!
Pedro Menéndez
I. Wilson Gittleman, M.D.
The palest ink is better than the best memory. --Chinese proverb
There is no end to collecting books.
--Book of Ecclesiastes
To three possessions shalt thou look: Acquire a field, a friend, a
book.
--Samuel haNagid, Vizier to the King of Granada
I. Wilson Gittleman, M.D.
meurgues
> No question: Toledo.
>
Segovia is one of the prettiest town in Spain but I prefered Toledo
too. Both have impressive scenery, a big castle, a cathedral and old
bridges. But in Toledo there are more monuments (churches + synagogues
+ mosk), museums and above all Greco pictures all over the place : my
favourite paintor in the world. Try to do both and El Escorial on the
way.
didier Meurgues
Iain
"meurgues" <meur...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:eed496ff.02040...@posting.google.com...
devil
>
> You can do both in a day with a hire car if you get up early.
Getting up early? That's the problem, isn't it? Why would one inflict
that upon oneself when on holiday?
Oopsdaisy2
>From: "Iain" iainds...@onetel.net.uk
>Date: 4/4/2002 3:19 PM
>
>You can do both in a day with a hire car if you get up early.
>"meurgues"
I suppose it depends on what "do both" means. You can very easily spend the
enitre day at each and still not see all it has to offer. I guess I think it
would be a shame to rush the art and history in Toledo. One of my favorite
parts of Segovia is the walk to the small Iglesia de la Vera Cruz just outside
of the walls.....but that takes a few hours in itself. IMHO, its better to see
one well....than rush to see the surface of both.
meurgues
> >Subject: Re: Segovia or Toledo?
> >From: "Iain" iainds...@onetel.net.uk
> >Date: 4/4/2002 3:19 PM
>
> >
> >You can do both in a day with a hire car if you get up early.
> >"meurgues"
Why do you put my name after this sentence? That's not me who said
that !!!! :+)
I meant of course : visit both cities in two different day trips and
eventually a third one for El Escorial if you have no car but use
railways and/or bus. I didn't understood well the first message.
didier Meurgues.
I. Wilson Gittleman, M.D.
'ex-synagogue'.
Have you seen the disgusting painting in the church that was once a
synagogue ... unless it has been removed since I was there?
Barbara Vaughan
Oopsdaisy2 wrote:
>
> >Subject: Re: Segovia or Toledo?
> >From: "Iain" iainds...@onetel.net.uk
> >Date: 4/4/2002 3:19 PM
>
> >
> >You can do both in a day with a hire car if you get up early.
> >"meurgues"
>
> I suppose it depends on what "do both" means. You can very easily spend the
> enitre day at each and still not see all it has to offer. I guess I think it
> would be a shame to rush the art and history in Toledo. One of my favorite
> parts of Segovia is the walk to the small Iglesia de la Vera Cruz just outside
> of the walls.....but that takes a few hours in itself.
I think that a walk to Vera Cruz and back can be done in little more
than half an hour. We spent three hours walking all around two sides of
the triangle that defines the historic city, in the parks that follow
the courses of the two rivers that meet below the city walls. During
that walk we visited Vera Cruz and another church outside the walls, San
Lorenzo. This church itself is usually closed, but we arrived just
before a service. It's located in a very charming neighborhood of
half-timbered houses. The entire walk was delightful and at the tip of
the triangle, you have great views of the Alcazar. I would allow at
least half a day for this walk and half a day to see the inside of the
Alcazar and the rest of the city. The cathedral is beautiful from the
outside, but the inside is a bit of a disappointment. The museum
attached to the cathedral is worth a visit.
I would allow at least two full days for Toledo, which has more museums
and artworks to see. On the way between the two, Avila, the birthplace
of Santa Teresa of guess where, is a beautiful walled town with several
beautiful religious monuments. A brief stop might also be made at Coca,
which has a very beautiful mujedar castle, but little else.
Barbara
meurgues
> Muergues: Glad you mentioned synagogue(?s). I think you should have said
> 'ex-synagogue'.
>
> Have you seen the disgusting painting in the church that was once a
> synagogue ... unless it has been removed since I was there?
>
No I can't remember a particular picture. On the other hand, I can
remember the "burial of the earl of Orgaz" by El Greco in San Mateo
(?) church. Wonderfull. (entierro del conde de Orgaz (?) : enterrement
du comte d'Orgaz).
I didn't pay attention to which cult was still worshiped in the two
old synagogues I visited in Toledo. In fact I was quasi alone when I
visited them and there was no service then. Perhaps have they not
returned to jewish cult. I don't know exactly. I just looked the
architecture, much influenced by islamic architecture. I like it.
didier Meurgues
GG
news:<29420-3C...@storefull-2374.public.lawson.webtv.net>...
> > Muergues: Glad you mentioned synagogue(?s). I think you should have said
> > 'ex-synagogue'.
> >
> > Have you seen the disgusting painting in the church that was once a
> > synagogue ... unless it has been removed since I was there?
> >
> Hi, Wilson,
>
> No I can't remember a particular picture. On the other hand, I can
> remember the "burial of the earl of Orgaz" by El Greco in San Mateo
> (?) church. Wonderfull. (entierro del conde de Orgaz (?) : enterrement
> du comte d'Orgaz).
This wonderful painting is in the church of Santo Tomé. We were just there
a couple of weeks ago and enjoyed the audio commentary offered free with the
entry ticket. For some reason the fact that the devices are available on
demand when purchasing tickets is not prominently displayed, and we almost
missed the little notice taped to the window of the ticket office. I'm not
usually a great fan of these recorded commentaries, but, unless you are
already familiar with the details of this painting, I believe the audio adds
a great deal to the appreciation of it.
GG
Oopsdaisy2
>Date: 4/5/2002 6:26 AM
I suppose Vera Cruz can be done in a half an hour....just as Toledo and Segovia
can both be done in one day ;-) Odd that after saying that you go on to give
an excellent description of the highlights of the walk to Vera Cruz and the
areas outside of the wall and suggest taking half a day. Vera Cruz is a nice
walking *destination*....but on the way you also walk by (and hopefully go
into) Casa de la Moneda, Monasterio de El Parral, Iglesia de San Marcos,
Convento Carmelitas Descalzos and Santuario Virgen de la Fuencisla....as well
as some nice rural neighborhoods. Sitting and looking up at the Alcazar (maybe
even a picnic) on the way home/to Vera Cruz is also something not to be
missed.
The Vera Cruz church itself is open every day except Mon....and the month of
Nov. The hours vary according to season. However, I think chatting with the
man that runs the place is worth most of the afternoon. This history of the
place is facinating. Its not high on tourist glitz and far from the madding
crowds, but if you dig below the surface its quite interesting.
Barbara Vaughan
Oopsdaisy2 wrote:
>
[I wrote the following, but the attribution got lost ]
> >I think that a walk to Vera Cruz and back can be done in little more
> >than half an hour. We spent three hours walking all around two sides of
> >the triangle that defines the historic city, in the parks that follow
> >the courses of the two rivers that meet below the city walls. ...
>
> I suppose Vera Cruz can be done in a half an hour....just as Toledo and Segovia
> can both be done in one day ;-) Odd that after saying that you go on to give
> an excellent description of the highlights of the walk to Vera Cruz and the
> areas outside of the wall and suggest taking half a day.
I understood you to say that the walk to Vera Cruz took two hours by
itself. I certainly didn't mean to suggest that one should just walk
there and back. In fact, I think the entire circumvention of the walls
is one of the best things you could do in Segovia. In addition to the
things you mention, we also saw the ruins of an old mill, lots of
nesting storks, and many water birds along the rivers.
Barbara
I. Wilson Gittleman, M.D.
'wonderful' . . . or we are not talking about the same one. It was
obscene.
I. Wilson Gittleman, M.D.
low caps and the last in capitals -- confusing]:
I, too am very interested in Islamic architecture, and have seen it in
other places too (Tunisia, Morocco, Syria, Jordan, etc.) .
I also am interested (and feel sad at the present state of affairs) in,
what is often called 'The Golden Age of Spain', when Jews and Muslims
(thank goodness the Catholics hadn't screwed things up yet) collaborated
in philosophy, medicine, and other cultural pursuits . . . producing
Maimonides, Avicennes, etc.
Incidentally the two synagogues in Toledo do not function (no Jews there
anyway), the 'el Transito' is a Sepharadic museum.
Carry on, W.
GG
I. Wilson Gittleman, M.D. <iwg...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:18487-3CA...@storefull-2377.public.lawson.webtv.net...
> GG: Unless your tongue was in your cheek, I wouldn't call this painting
> 'wonderful' . . . or we are not talking about the same one. It was
> obscene.
>
Well, maybe you are thinking of a different work, because I can't imagine
what one might consider 'obscene' in this painting. Could you explain?
GG
I. Wilson Gittleman, M.D.
been removed. And I do not recall its exact content; however, it showed
a grossly distorted 'Jewish-looking' caricature-like person being
tortured for one of the 'traditional' blood-libel attributions. My
non-Jewish friends were truly shocked that this painting was in a
church.
GG
> GG: It was a while ago, which is the reason I said that perhaps it has
> been removed. And I do not recall its exact content; however, it showed
> a grossly distorted 'Jewish-looking' caricature-like person being
> tortured for one of the 'traditional' blood-libel attributions. My
> non-Jewish friends were truly shocked that this painting was in a
> church.
>
(The Burial of Lord Orgaz), is the only painting on display at Santo Tomé, I
think. Done c.1588, it's subject is the burial in 1327 of a Toledan
nobleman, who was laid to rest in the church, according to local tradition,
by Sts. Thomas and Augustine in the presence of many local dignitaries.
The upper half of the painting depicts Heaven populated by many figures from
the Bible. Between Earth and Heaven is a passageway where an angel is
guiding the deceased's soul into the waiting hands of the Virgin Mary and
St. John the Baptist. Many art historians consider this to be one of El
Greco's finest works.
GG
GG
GG <onther...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:dg%r8.6012$Tf4.2...@news2.news.adelphia.net...
>
> I. Wilson Gittleman, M.D. <iwg...@webtv.net> wrote in message
> news:29420-3CB...@storefull-2374.public.lawson.webtv.net...
> > GG: It was a while ago, which is the reason I said that perhaps it has
> > been removed. And I do not recall its exact content; however, it showed
> > a grossly distorted 'Jewish-looking' caricature-like person being
> > tortured for one of the 'traditional' blood-libel attributions. My
> > non-Jewish friends were truly shocked that this painting was in a
> > church.
> >
> Definitely not the same painting. This work, El Entierro del Senor de
Orgaz
> (The Burial of Lord Orgaz), is the only painting on display at Santo Tomé,
I
> think. Done c.1588, it's
Make that "its." (It's a good thing I got to this before the grammar police
arrested me!)
GG
Arcadia
Look for the self portrait of El Greco as one of the noblemen.
(also, in Spanish, it's Conde de Orgaz, not Senor; I don't know its name
in English)
GG
Arcadia <cd...@cleansoft.com> wrote in message
news:3CB0CA3F...@cleansoft.com...
> The painting itself is worth a trip to Toledo.
> Look for the self portrait of El Greco as one of the noblemen.
>
> (also, in Spanish, it's Conde de Orgaz, not Senor; I don't know its name
> in English)
>
I thought I remembered from long ago art history classes that it was Conde
de Orgaz, but used Senor since that was the way it was written on the
pamphlet I picked up at the site a couple of weeks ago. In the pamphlet it
was translated Lord too. I just checked my old Janson's 'History of Art'
and find they also use Count. Now who's going to inform the folks at Santo
Tomé?
GG
I. Wilson Gittleman, M.D.
that the ex-synagogue in Segovia was being discussed.
I am well acquainted with the 'Burial' you discussed, having seen it at
least twice.
:-)))
IWG
meurgues
> Didier [I am not sure what name to use since you start the first name in
> low caps and the last in capitals -- confusing]:
>
> I, too am very interested in Islamic architecture, and have seen it in
> other places too (Tunisia, Morocco, Syria, Jordan, etc.) .
>
> I also am interested (and feel sad at the present state of affairs) in,
> what is often called 'The Golden Age of Spain', when Jews and Muslims
> (thank goodness the Catholics hadn't screwed things up yet) collaborated
> in philosophy, medicine, and other cultural pursuits . . . producing
> Maimonides, Avicennes, etc.
>
> Incidentally the two synagogues in Toledo do not function (no Jews there
> anyway), the 'el Transito' is a Sepharadic museum.
>
> Carry on, W.
>
>
Cordialy.
didier Meurgues