YTB defends business model
John Sisker
After coming under fire from Royal Caribbean Cruises for being what the
cruise line calls a "card mill," YTB International's founders say they are
striving to correct misconceptions about the company. "We are working to
grow up and mature," said Kim Sorensen, president and cofounder of YTB. "But
I submit it is a very small percentage of people who have given YTB a bad
name here. We have people who are way too aggressive and promote things that
YTB has not promoted for years. You won't hear anything in our training or
see anything in our recruiting materials about discounts."
Happy sailing,
John Sisker, SHIP-TO-SHORE CRUISE AGENCY®
(714) 536-3850 or toll free at (800) 724-6644 & (Agency No. 714.536.3850)
www.shiptoshorecruise.com
Chrissy Cruiser
Translation: Cruise lines can dump you for any reason they want.
George Leppla
"John Sisker" <jsi...@sprynet.com> wrote
> YTB defends business model, recruitment of new agents
>
> After coming under fire from Royal Caribbean Cruises for being what the
> cruise line calls a "card mill," YTB International's founders say they are
> striving to correct misconceptions about the company. "We are working to
> grow up and mature," said Kim Sorensen, president and cofounder of YTB.
> "But I submit it is a very small percentage of people who have given YTB a
> bad name here. We have people who are way too aggressive and promote
> things that YTB has not promoted for years. You won't hear anything in our
> training or see anything in our recruiting materials about discounts."
YTB is an MLM. People join YTB and make money by getting other people to
join.
http://www.ytb.com/downloads/YTB_comp_plan.pdf You don't ever have to sell
any travel at all to make money... you just have to build your "downlines"
and sell memberships.
This leads to carp like this:
http://www.hiddenmlmsecrets.com/ytb/
http://www.retainreps.com/ytbtravel.php
And that is why they got the boot from Royal Caribbean.
--
George Leppla http://www.CruiseMaster.com
January 20, 2008 - GGC2008 - http://cruisemaster.com/adventure.htm
October 26, 2008 Sleazy 5 http://www.cruisemaster.com/sleazy5.htm
JoyceR
> This leads to carp like this:
I just knew there was something 'fishy' going on. ;-)
Joyce
Kurt Ullman
JoyceR <j.ra...@nospam.earthlink.net> wrote:
I am pretty shore that George wrote that just for the halibut.
Kurt (You set 'em up, I'll eel 'em in) Ullman
Neal Eckhardt
wrote:
That's enough out of you shrimp. Leave the sharks to their jobs, and
stop acting like a jelly fish. You fell for it hook, line, and sinker.
Neal
Diana Ball
I got spammed with an email from a group that purports to be lobbying more
big travel sellers to follow suit (see email below). Did anyone else get
this? I don't understand what is motivating this campaign--if I'm a legit
TA, why do I need to waste my precious time joining a grassroots
organization to cheerlead the big travel sellers for making a decision I
like? I am also trying to figure out where they harvested my address
from....
Clues?
Diana Ball
Austin, TX
from
Travel Agents Stand Together <saynomlm...@gmail.com>
to saynomlm...@gmail.com
date Oct 25, 2007 8:37 AM
subject It is time to UNITE as Travel Professionals
As most of you probably heard, RCI has terminated their contract with
YTB and two other MLM (Card Mill) agencies. Since RCI has terminated,
Perillo Tours, and Celtic Tours have followed suit. We have been battling
these types of business models for a while now and on October 5th
established an online petition (
http://www.petitiononline.com/NOMLM/petition.html) to present to our
associations and suppliers encouraging them to do exactly what Royal
Caribbean, Celebrity, and Azamara have done this week.
We have met with ASTA and Carnival and spoken and emailed with many
others in the industry attempting to get their backing. So far it has been
successful. OSSN, ARTA, ASTA, Carlson Wagonlit, American Express, among
others have all endorsed the idea.
The main issues we see with the MLM model are as follows:
a.. Suppliers allowing them discounts, free travel, FAMS, and other
perks merely for referring themselves and their family to a website
b.. Suppliers paying top commissions from day one, when we have to
work years for a few points
c.. The MLM companies idea of help to the consumer is to refer them
to the Travel Agent Only toll free number of the supplier
d.. The solicitation of our clients with slick unethical and
misleading marketing materials
e.. The solicitation of travel agents themselves to join their
"downline"
f.. Consumers believing that they are booking with a "friend" and
ultimately it is being handled by an untrained person in a res center
g.. The promotion of their business with the focus on "free travel"
and "traveling like an insider"
Think about what you sell in a year and how valuable you are to the
suppliers. YTB has stated that in July 2007 they paid nearly $1M in
commissions. That seems impressive on the surface. But they had 106,102
"agents". Of that number, only 17,644 sold ANY travel to earn an average
commission of $57.05 for the month! (
http://www.ytb.com/downloads/RTA_Earnings.htm)
We are encouraging any travel agent, supplier, or anyone sympathetic
to our industry to sign the online petition so we can send a clear message
to our suppliers and our associations. This is a grass roots effort and a
viral one. Please pass it along to anyone you know if you agree.
Currently we have over 2000 signatures in a little more than two
weeks. This went live on the 5th. These 2000 signatures (as best I can tell)
represent over 1.25 BILLION in annual travel sales. We encourage you to join
us and add your name to the list. You do not need to identify your agency if
you do not want, but I do encourage everyone to include any designations you
may hold--CTC, CTA, DS, ACC, MCC, ECC. And feel free to insert any comments
you feel appropriate. Your email is NOT disclosed but the software will
verify it.
One complete, we will forward this on to the suppliers who are
supporting these businesses and with a little luck, they will see that it is
cheapening the industry and in their best interest to follow the lead of RCI
and terminate these relationships.
We appreciate your time, and I hope that you can help us out. This is
a serious issue in our industry and it is about time that agents--the
legitimate ones, take a stand!
The petition is located here
http://www.petitiononline.com/NOMLM/petition.html
If you are interested in discussing this in more detail, there are
some active threads on the private Travel Agent Only forums at
www.tripso.com/forum . You will need to register there and then send me an
email and I can get your permissions changed to allow access to the private
travel agent only section--they are not visible otherwise.
Please consider supporting this petition. We need to speak as one
voice to the industry. RCI took the first step. Let's let our message be
heard as well. Please forward this to any of your industry contacts.
Thanks and all the best-
John Frenaye
jo...@jvegroup.net
Travels With Fred
Single Parent Travel
MSNBC.com
Joe
Email John or respond to the email and ask to be removed, I am sure
they will oblige.
The petition is asking more suppliers to join in and support this and
establish a solid standard for what defines a "travel agent" and who
should and shouldn't get travel agent discounts.
As it stands right now, your neighbor can spend $449 today and $49 a
month and get discounted or free trips as a "travel agent" - same as
you.
-Joe
On Oct 26, 9:35 pm, "Diana Ball" <di...@removespamball.net> wrote:
> In the wake of RCI's decision to yank the privileges of "card mill" outfits,
> I got spammed with an email from a group that purports to be lobbying more
> big travel sellers to follow suit (see email below). Did anyone else get
> this? I don't understand what is motivating this campaign--if I'm a legit
> TA, why do I need to waste my precious time joining a grassroots
> organization to cheerlead the big travel sellers for making a decision I
> like? I am also trying to figure out where they harvested my address
> from....
>
> Clues?
>
> Diana Ball
> Austin, TX
>
> from
>
> Travel Agents Stand Together <saynomlmpetit...@gmail.com>
>
> to saynomlmpetit...@gmail.com
> date Oct 25, 2007 8:37 AM
> subject It is time to UNITE as Travel Professionals
>
> As most of you probably heard, RCI has terminated their contract with
> YTB and two other MLM (Card Mill) agencies. Since RCI has terminated,
> Perillo Tours, and Celtic Tours have followed suit. We have been battling
> these types of business models for a while now and on October 5th
> established an online petition (http://www.petitiononline.com/NOMLM/petition.html) to present to our
> commission of $57.05 for the month! (http://www.ytb.com/downloads/RTA_Earnings.htm)
>
> We are encouraging any travel agent, supplier, or anyone sympathetic
> to our industry to sign the online petition so we can send a clear message
> to our suppliers and our associations. This is a grass roots effort and a
> viral one. Please pass it along to anyone you know if you agree.
>
> Currently we have over 2000 signatures in a little more than two
> weeks. This went live on the 5th. These 2000 signatures (as best I can tell)
> represent over 1.25 BILLION in annual travel sales. We encourage you to join
> us and add your name to the list. You do not need to identify your agency if
> you do not want, but I do encourage everyone to include any designations you
> may hold--CTC, CTA, DS, ACC, MCC, ECC. And feel free to insert any comments
> you feel appropriate. Your email is NOT disclosed but the software will
> verify it.
>
> One complete, we will forward this on to the suppliers who are
> supporting these businesses and with a little luck, they will see that it is
> cheapening the industry and in their best interest to follow the lead of RCI
> and terminate these relationships.
>
> We appreciate your time, and I hope that you can help us out. This is
> a serious issue in our industry and it is about time that agents--the
> legitimate ones, take a stand!
>
> The petition is located here
> http://www.petitiononline.com/NOMLM/petition.html
>
> If you are interested in discussing this in more detail, there are
> some active threads on the private Travel Agent Only forums atwww.tripso.com/forum. You will need to register there and then send me an
> email and I can get your permissions changed to allow access to the private
> travel agent only section--they are not visible otherwise.
>
> Please consider supporting this petition. We need to speak as one
> voice to the industry. RCI took the first step. Let's let our message be
> heard as well. Please forward this to any of your industry contacts.
>
> Thanks and all the best-
>
> John Frenaye
D Ball
> Diana,
>
> Email John or respond to the email and ask to be removed, I am sure
> they will oblige.
>
> The petition is asking more suppliers to join in and support this and
> establish a solid standard for what defines a "travel agent" and who
> should and shouldn't get travel agent discounts.
>
> As it stands right now, your neighbor can spend $449 today and $49 a
> month and get discounted or free trips as a "travel agent" - same as
> you.
>
> -Joe
Hi, Joe,
Thanks for responding. I didn't make my question clear. I understand
the financial motivation. And it takes no time to sign a petition. So
unless you are the petition organizer, I guess the effort isn't that
big of a deal. But getting down to the real issue, is this moving the
ball very far down the court if the touchdown is to eliminate MLMs?
Everyone joins hands to rally agains MLMs, big travel suppliers stop
doing business with them, their business dries up, and they go away.
But isn't that a temporary situation if there is no legal restraint or
industry regulation that bars this type of business model? I don't
pretend to understand the industry, I just wonder whether the current
flurry of activity is the final solution.
Diana
George Leppla
"Diana Ball" <di...@removespamball.net> wrote
> In the wake of RCI's decision to yank the privileges of "card mill"
> outfits, I got spammed with an email from a group that purports to be
> lobbying more big travel sellers to follow suit (see email below). Did
> anyone else get this? I don't understand what is motivating this
> campaign--if I'm a legit TA, why do I need to waste my precious time
> joining a grassroots organization to cheerlead the big travel sellers for
> making a decision I like? I am also trying to figure out where they
> harvested my address from....
John Frenaye is a travel agent, columnist and the man who started this
petition. Ironically, he is also a member of the communications board of
ASTA (American Society of Travel Agents).
Now what makes this funny is that Joystar is a member of ASTA (according to
their website). So here we have ASTA applauding the fact that the suppliers
have stopped doing business with one of their own members. I am not
defending Joystar, but if they were so bad, why did ASTA accept them as a
member in the first place? FWIW, as I said the other day, I don't think
Joystar was the worst offender in the card mill business, but without
sales-per-agent figures, it is hard to tell. Of course, only Joystar or
Royal Caribbean can supply those figures and neither one is talking.
This is one screwed up business.
D Ball
> John Frenaye is a travel agent, columnist and the man who started this
> petition. Ironically, he is also a member of the communications board of
> ASTA (American Society of Travel Agents).
>
> Now what makes this funny is that Joystar is a member of ASTA (according to
> their website). So here we have ASTA applauding the fact that the suppliers
> have stopped doing business with one of their own members. I am not
> defending Joystar, but if they were so bad, why did ASTA accept them as a
> member in the first place? FWIW, as I said the other day, I don't think
> Joystar was the worst offender in the card mill business, but without
> sales-per-agent figures, it is hard to tell. Of course, only Joystar or
> Royal Caribbean can supply those figures and neither one is talking.
George, thanks for the further information. Now I hear something that
goes to my query. It seems ASTA needs to change or enforce membership
rules. -Diana