Caution: Art Auction on Westerdam
HSCRC
Art
Sales/Park West Auctions. I have attended several of these auctions, in recent
years, and am well aware of the issues that have come up for discussion on this
NG. I also am, knowledgeable with respect to the type of art work sold at
these auctions.
On this particular cruise, however, I witnessed a sales technique that while
clearly not illegal brought this auction to an extreme low. It was clearly
aimed at the totally inexperienced art buyer and appeared to be quite
successful. Before I describe the details I want to identify the auctioneer.
His name is Charlie. By description he has a shaved head and a small black
goatee.
Here’s what he did. Several times during the auction, Charlie would have a
framed print placed on the easel backward. He would ask for an opening bid of
a dollar. He would follow this by saying that he would not sell the print for
$1.00 and that if you didn’t like it you didn’t have to take it. He would
then push the bidding up to between $50. and $55., again with the proviso that
you can walk away. At the point where the bidding closed, Charlie offered the
print to everyone who wanted it at the closing price. He had several takers on
each print. Keep in mind that everything that he sold prior to doing this was a
limited edition, pencil signed and numbered print. The people who bid clearly
were excited to get a “bargain,” and a nice souvenir of their cruise.
Park West has a series of promo prints that they use as giveaways. These are
larger prints that they will give to you, free of charge, for attending their
land auctions. In the past they would give you 2 of these prints, at no cost,
for applying and being granted one of their credit cards. Additionally, I’ve
seen them as a raffle prize at the auctions. They are attractive pieces with
the artist’s signature in the plate. They are, as far as I can tell, open
editions and clearly are not worth much, other than something pretty to look
at. It is highly questionable as to whether they are worth the cost of
framing, again, other than being something pretty to look at. They are not
“collectable,” and not going to increase in value. These are the prints
that Charlie was auctioning in the above described manner.
The auction sale of these prints, at these prices, was a new low. Charlie
didn’t
misrepresent the prints, he just didn’t inform the bidders as to what they
are buying. It, of course, is the extreme caveat emptor situation. It’s
also a sleazy way to take advantage of people, who are relaxed, on vacation,
and free with their money. I wonder how the cruise line feels about their
passengers being hustled in this manner (at least the rules are clear in the
casino)! One person that I spoke to asked him if it was a “signed print.”
He advised him that it was signed but just not numbered. This indeed was the
truth, but he could have explained the difference between a signed print and a
signature in the plate.
I am not in the habit of posting stuff like this, however, simply want to give
a heads up to anyone who runs into this man or this technique. I get the sense
that Park West is a legit operation and would be surprised if their management
condones this practice.
Also, in spite of Michelle, it was a great cruise. Victor Reyes
June
sponsoring "art" auctions around town here in area motels and such. They
always struck me as extremely sleezy operations.
June
"HSCRC" <hs...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20011110092044...@mb-dd.aol.com...
Karen Allison
>always struck me as extremely sleezy operations.
Well, they do sell some known artists and some of their artists become known
via the auctions, I guess. I've never seen them refuse to allow someone
(myself included) to reject a purchase if there was any question about what was
bought or a sales tactic. I think they are very cautious about complaints -
the auctions are lucrative and they don't want to lose them.
I have gotten several real bargains over the years at their auctions but I
always have a limit in mind and don't bid past it.
___|___ AT HOME
////////\ _
//////// \ ('< IN LAS VEGAS
| (_) | | (^)
ldb
Kevin and Sue
with us. At an auction at sea we purchased an expensive piece of art,
very well know artist, very good price. We never received the art work,
we got one excuse after the other and finally told them to give us back
our money, which they did. We believe that they found a buyer at a
better price. We will buy at land autions, because we can take the art
work home with us.
If you know your art work, you can get some very good deals at the land
or sea auctions. If you do not know the artist and it is something you
like and can afford that is fine.
sue
Tom & Linda
oil painting on linen canvas (cotton canvas isn't much better than paper
since the fibers rot quickly) you're NOT buying "art". You are buying a
fancy version of a Xerox copy.
Whether the sheet of paper is signed or not... it's simply NOT ART.
Don't call it that. They are PRINTS and nothing more than that. No
different than if I took a digital photo, and had it blown up.
If the money is burning a hole in your pocket... buy an original piece
of art in port done by a "real live local artist". At least you have
something made by the artist's own hand. Not a cheap print that cost 35
cents to make, and sells for $1000.
Wake up!! It's a rip off. Especially the signed Xeroxes that they have
the nerve to charge more for.
If they charge more than 35 cents... it's not a good deal.
--Tom
Karen Allison
>oil painting on linen canvas (cotton canvas isn't much better than paper
>since the fibers rot quickly) you're NOT buying "art". You are buying a
>fancy version of a Xerox copy.
I think that is a very limited view of "art." Lithographs and other
reproductive processes like woodcuts clearly belong in the realm of art.
David Seifert
nothing more than a computer generated inkjet print. The editions may be
limited but without a plate to be broken what is the guarantee that the
edition is limited. I can make lots of copies of image files before
deleting the "master".
David
"Tom & Linda" <TKAN...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:3BED6CCA...@worldnet.att.net...
Tom & Linda
count. But NOT a machine made set of 10,000 prints for $49.95.
--Tom
Charles
<TKAN...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
> Lithographs, where the artist actually applies paint on a screen, DOES
> count. But NOT a machine made set of 10,000 prints for $49.95.
Your right Tom. These auctions are set up to part the general public
which does not have a lot of knowledge about art from their money. That
is why they use the "auction" format. These salse can be compared to
the old time medicine shows that were run by con artists.
--
Charles
June
June
"Tom & Linda" <TKAN...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:3BED6CCA...@worldnet.att.net...
Eddie Allen
prices?
"Charles" <fo...@his.com.remove.invalid> wrote in message
news:111120010832015001%fo...@his.com.remove.invalid...
Tom & Linda
prices a lot. Better to sell 15 prints of the same picture at $300 than
1 print at $500 each day.
Prices only need to get driven up when supply is limited. In this case,
they can get 10,000 copies made very cheaply. Get 9,000 signed and it's
a limited edition.
Rip off.
But hey... it's just like other on board revenue generating enterprises
designed to keep base cruise prices down.
Not much different than a casino... only in the casino, sometimes you
"might" win.
--Tom
Sheree
auctioneer explained in detail what you were bidding on. they were
typically sericells.
we got some sports memorbilia that was priced very well.
--
Sheree
"HSCRC" <hs...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20011110092044...@mb-dd.aol.com...
Dennis P. Harris
<s...@noway.com> wrote:
> Whether the sheet of paper is signed or not... it's simply NOT ART.
> Don't call it that. They are PRINTS and nothing more than that. No
> different than if I took a digital photo, and had it blown up.
>
they are NOT prints. prints are hand made from etched or engraved metal
plates, stones on which images are drawn with special crayons, or silk
screens. what are sold as "prints" are actually photolithographic
REPRODUCTIONS made on mass reproduction presses.
but you're right that these onboard "art" auctions sell overpriced crap
to folks who don't know better. another example of cruise line mass
marketing sleaziness...
HSCRC
is art??
Photography - Is anything done after the first print art.
Music - Is a recording of a Beethoven symphony art. It costs less than $.35 to
manufacture an actual CD. Is anything
other than a live performance art? The CD is a reproduction.
Whether signed/numbered prints are overpriced garbage or not, there is still a
market for it and it has some re-sale value.
In some cases the resale value is quite lofty. It's a matter of what someone
will pay. On the ships they seem to pay a lot.
As long as we are off topic, I thought I'd get my $.02 in. Vic Reyes
Marty
only time that art is a good investment is if you happen to buy from
an artist who later becomes famous or you can afford to buy from one
who already is. Otherwise, you're better off buying whatever you want
to seee hanging on your walls for pleasure, and putting your
investment money in something "safe"...like the stock market (which IS
safe compared to art).
Marty
P.S. Not going to post my resume here, but this is something I know a
bit about.
Bob & Annie
Otherwise, you're better off buying whatever you want to seee hanging on
your walls for pleasure, and putting your investment money in something
"safe"...like the stock market (which IS safe compared to art).
Marty struck at least one nail on the head.
Whatever pleases you should hang on your wall. "Beauty is in the eye of
the beholder".
I don't agree wth Marty's feelings about art not increasing in value.
Years ago I bought a collection of lithographs,signed, from an artist wo
wa hungry. My cost $7.50 each. His family is now seling them for $1500
to $2000 each after his death, and hey are doing well.
What I've seen of art shows while cruising is prints (of very
questionable monetary value) being displayed in ornate and elaborate
frames. While the viewers are
"warmed up" with considerable hype, they are not verifying quality
before purchase.
I'm quite sure that they will never ask those questions before proudly
hanging their purchase to show to their friends at home. Somerset Maughm
once wrote a short story about a shipboard meeting where a blowhard
jewelry merchant had the good sense to keep secret the discovery of a
young wife's fake diamond.
I watch the shipboard proceedings and see the delight of purchase and
figure "to each his own."
Like Marty, I also have some credentials to make these remarks.
Bob McNabb
Elliott Shapiro
commission on the sales, they will not stop the practice. The art
auctioneers are obviously making money, so if you are inclined to
spend your money on pictures, rather than on tangible items, by all
means do so.
Kevin and Sue
it!!
I will not debate the value issue, that is up to the individual to
decide.
sue
BRENTSTELL
My uncle told me how to come out of the market with a small fortune.
Start with a large one. LOL
Marty
do it during the auction. If I see something that I like, I note it
and approach the auctioneer to ask to see other pieces by the same
artist. If I still like what I see, but the opening bid level is too
high, I wait. Near the end of the cruise, I again approach the
auctioneer and make an offer of what I am willig to pay and for which
piece. I can usually get it for less, sometimes by a significant
amount. Sometimes not, in which case, I walk away.
Oh, and I also have bought watches on cruises! Even if overpriced, I
like them as a souvenir. Both the watches and the art are, for me, fun
and enjoyable reminders of great vacations. And, since, to me, any
cruise is, by definition, a great vacation, I'm happy with my
purchases, even if they are not financially "sound investments".
Marty