Re: Excursions on Carnival Liberty's 1st Med Cruises!
Ray Goldenberg
<r...@lighthousetravel.com> wrote:
>I sure wished I lived in S. Florida and could take
>advantage of this offer. <vvbg>
Hi Everyone,
The above should not have been in my post. Sorry about that.
Best regards,
Ray
LIGHTHOUSE TRAVEL
800-719-9917 or 805-566-3905
http://www.lighthousetravel.com
Ray Goldenberg
I received this press release from Carnival and thought it would be of
interest. I sure wished I lived in S. Florida and could take
advantage of this offer. <vvbg> If you have missed any of my news'
postings, they are available on my web site.
Best regards,
Ray
LIGHTHOUSE TRAVEL
800-719-9917 or 805-566-3905
http://www.lighthousetravel.com
More Than 80 Shore Excursions Available in Conjunction with Carnival
Liberty's First-Ever Med Cruises
MIAMI 04/11/2005
From gondola rides and guided museum tours to kayaking excursions and
day-long trips to ancient cities and landmarks, Carnival Cruise Lines
is offering more than 80 different shore excursions in conjunction
with its first-ever Mediterranean cruises aboard the new Carnival
Liberty. All Carnival Liberty’s shore excursions can be pre-booked at
carnival.com and guests are encouraged to book their preferred tours
in advance.
The 2,974-passenger SuperLiner will operate eight 12-day voyages
roundtrip from Rome (Civitavecchia) July 20 – Oct. 12, 2005. The
Carnival Liberty will visit some of Europe’s most historic and
charming cities, including Naples, Italy; Dubrovnik, Croatia; Venice,
Italy (two-day call); Messina, Sicily; Barcelona, Spain; Cannes,
France; and Livorno, Italy.
“Each of these cities offers historic sites and museums, beautiful
architecture, and unforgettable dining and shopping opportunities. We
are pleased to offer such a wide range of shore excursions for our
guests to explore and experience all this magnificent region has to
offer,” said Bob Dickinson, Carnival’s president and CEO.
Highlights of Carnival’s European shore excursions include:
Murano, St. George’s Island & Gondola Tour (Venice) – Guests will
visit the famous glass production company, Murano, where they will
have the opportunity to observe master glassmakers as they create
stunning glass pieces. This excursion will also include a visit to San
Giorgio Island, home of the magnificent domed Church of San Giorgio
Maggiore, followed by a relaxing 30-minute gondola ride through some
of Venice’s picturesque canals.
Leaning Tower of Pisa with Tower Entrance (Livorno) – This excursion
will visit one of Italy’s most famous and historic landmarks, the
Leaning Tower of Pisa, where guests can take the 294 steps to reach
the top of the tower and admire the beautiful surrounding region. The
excursion also includes stops at the cathedral square, “Piazza dei
Miracoli,” and the Baptistery, which houses a variety of art
treasures.
Monaco and Monte Carlo (Cannes) – This nine-hour tour will include a
visit to Monaco, the second smallest city-state in the world, as well
as a guided walking tour through Old Town to the Palace Square, and a
stop at the Royal Palace to see the changing of the guards. Following
a half-hour motorcoach ride, guests will visit Monte Carlo, famed for
its legendary casino, shopping, restaurants and luxury hotels. Note:
guests must be 21 to enter the casino.
Sea Kayaking (Dubrovnik) – Following a panoramic drive to the majestic
Janska Bay, guests will embark on a sea adventure to experience the
tranquil beauty of the Adriatic Sea. A seafood lunch with wine is
included, as well as leisurely time for swimming and relaxation.
Mount Etna (Messina) – On this excursion, guests will take a
motorcoach tour through the beautiful landscape and view the stunning
flora and fauna surrounding Mount Etna, the world famous volcano in
Sicily. As the ride climbs higher, guests will also see layers of
hardened lava, as well as craters exuded by the volcano.
Art, Picasso & Gaudi (Barcelona) – Lovers of art history will
particularly enjoy this excursion, which explores Barcelona’s historic
and artistic past. The tour will include stops at two landmarks
designed by Spanish architect Antonio Gaudi – the famed church,
Sagrada Familia; and Park Güell, a beautiful public garden featuring
more of Gaudi’s works. Guests will also visit the Picasso Museum,
which houses many oils, drawings and masterpieces by the renowned
artist.
Pompeii, Sorrento and Capri (Naples) – This 10-hour excursion will
explore three historic and beautiful towns in southern Italy. The tour
begins with a morning visit to Pompeii, where guests will have the
chance to discover the ruins and structures of this centuries-old
city, such as the enormous Forum and great temples, as well as homes
and shops that were once buried by ash and pumice stone raining down
from Mount Vesuvius in A.D. 79. Guests will then travel along a scenic
and picturesque coastal road to Sorrento, where they will enjoy a
lunch of local cuisine and wine. From Sorrento, guests will enjoy a
relaxing boat ride to the beautiful island of Capri.
Numerous golfing opportunities featuring some of most beautiful and
challenging courses in Italy, France and Spain are available, as well.
Additional information and advanced reservations on Carnival Liberty’s
European shore excursions are available on Carnival’s Web site,
www.carnival.com. Guests are also welcome to visit the Carnival
Liberty’s shore excursion desk once on board to book shore excursions.
Following the Mediterranean cruise program, the Carnival Liberty will
operate a 16-day transatlantic voyage departing Rome (Civitavecchia)
Oct. 24, and arriving at Fort Lauderdale, Fla., Nov. 9, 2005, calling
at Barcelona, Palma de Mallorca and Malaga, Spain; Funchal (Madeira),
Portugal; and St. Maarten, Netherlands Antilles.
Carnival Liberty will then launch the cruise industry’s only
year-round six- and eight-day Bahamas/Caribbean schedule from Fort
Lauderdale beginning Nov. 12, 2005.
For additional information and reservations, contact any travel agent.
Benjamin Smith
> Hi Everyone,
>
> I received this press release from Carnival and thought it would be of
> interest. I sure wished I lived in S. Florida and could take
> advantage of this offer. <vvbg> If you have missed any of my news'
> postings, they are available on my web site.
>
> Best regards,
> Ray
> LIGHTHOUSE TRAVEL
> 800-719-9917 or 805-566-3905
> http://www.lighthousetravel.com
>
>
> More Than 80 Shore Excursions Available in Conjunction with Carnival
> Liberty's First-Ever Med Cruises
>
American insensitivity to European sensibilities allow us to sail a ship
called "Liberty" in Europe. We really don't get it.
Ben S. (wish we'd drop the political naming conventions already)
Ray Goldenberg
wrote:
>American insensitivity to European sensibilities allow us to sail a ship
>called "Liberty" in Europe. We really don't get it.
>
>Ben S. (wish we'd drop the political naming conventions already)
Hi Ben,
I looked up the definition of the word "liberty" and here is what it
said "personal freedom from servitude or confinement or oppression".
I don't know about you but I would think that is a pretty good
aspiration to be spread around the world including Europe and see
nothing wrong with a ship with this name sailing in Europe. It
certainly beats the alternatives, IMO.
Charles
Benjamin Smith <be...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
> American insensitivity to European sensibilities allow us to sail a ship
> called "Liberty" in Europe. We really don't get it.
>
> Ben S. (wish we'd drop the political naming conventions already)
I don't care for Carnival naming a ship Liberty, but I don't get why
this is American insensitivity to Eurpean sensibilities.
--
Charles
Tom K
"Ray Goldenberg" <r...@lighthousetravel.com> wrote in message
news:nfol519n6q4pd10aa...@4ax.com...
> On Mon, 11 Apr 2005 19:46:46 GMT, Benjamin Smith <be...@ix.netcom.com>
> wrote:
>
>>American insensitivity to European sensibilities allow us to sail a ship
>>called "Liberty" in Europe. We really don't get it.
>>
>>Ben S. (wish we'd drop the political naming conventions already)
>
> Hi Ben,
>
> I looked up the definition of the word "liberty" and here is what it
> said "personal freedom from servitude or confinement or oppression".
> I don't know about you but I would think that is a pretty good
> aspiration to be spread around the world including Europe and see
> nothing wrong with a ship with this name sailing in Europe. It
> certainly beats the alternatives, IMO.
>
But the ship isn't named Liberty. It's named Carnival Liberty. Like in the
past tradition of the Destiny and Spirit class ships, I view Carnival
Destiny about the destiny of the corporation, Carnival Victory about
corporate victories, Carnival Pride about corporate pride, and Carnival
Triumph about corporate triumphs. Maybe I'm alone in this, but that's how I
interpret the naming convention.
If you want Liberty, then name it Liberty. That's what they did with
Fantasy, Paradise, etc.
--Tom
Jean O'Boyle
"Tom K" <tkan...@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:04G6e.1556$WB....@fe12.lga...
> But the ship isn't named Liberty. It's named Carnival Liberty. Like in
> the past tradition of the Destiny and Spirit class ships, I view Carnival
> Destiny about the destiny of the corporation, Carnival Victory about
> corporate victories, Carnival Pride about corporate pride, and Carnival
> Triumph about corporate triumphs. Maybe I'm alone in this, but that's how
> I interpret the naming convention.
>
> If you want Liberty, then name it Liberty. That's what they did with
> Fantasy, Paradise, etc.
Me thinks you are reading too much into the names, Tom...Fortunately no
other cruise line has a ship named Fantasy, Paradise, Inspiration,
Celebration or Sensation, etc..
Who knows, with all the new ships being built, we may have another Victory,
Triumph or Liberty.....Some of the cruise lines have ships with the same
name or close to the same name, that it can get confusing..especially to new
cruisers..By putting Carnival or Radisson, etc. in front the of the ship's
name should make it less confusing..
--Jean
Benjamin Smith
I got an earful of why from my mother-in-law who lives in Belgium, my
sister-in-law and her husband who lives in Belgium, and feedback from
several folks who live in Europe on this. They are frankly tired of
hearing us talk about liberty and freedom, especially from our
president, and think we ram it down people's throats like we are the
only free country in the world, which we are not. We're now devaluing it
somewhat with our use of these terms to name commercial products. If we
would just welcome in the oppressed and huddled masses and stop telling
the world how much we do and how we stand for it more than anyone else,
they'd prefer it to the U.S, in much of European opinion and mine,
overuse of U.S. identification with liberty and freedom.
Ben S.
Benjamin Smith
> On Mon, 11 Apr 2005 19:46:46 GMT, Benjamin Smith <be...@ix.netcom.com>
> wrote:
>
>
>>American insensitivity to European sensibilities allow us to sail a ship
>>called "Liberty" in Europe. We really don't get it.
>>
>>Ben S. (wish we'd drop the political naming conventions already)
>
>
> Hi Ben,
>
> I looked up the definition of the word "liberty" and here is what it
> said "personal freedom from servitude or confinement or oppression".
And cruise ships are leisure vacations, not something so lofty and noble.
> I don't know about you but I would think that is a pretty good
> aspiration to be spread around the world including Europe and see
> nothing wrong with a ship with this name sailing in Europe. It
> certainly beats the alternatives, IMO.
>
We can support and encourage it when it is homegrown, but I think we've
gone far too far in stating over and over, rather ad nauseum, how much
we stand for freedom. We say it so much it starts to lose its impact and
meaning. Naming commercial products using Freedom and Liberty further
devalues their strength as concepts. 9/11 happened over 3 years ago. It
is beyond the time that we have to make everything about liberty and
freedom, including the names of ships, buildings, and even food.
Ben S.
Benjamin Smith
> "Tom K" <tkan...@optonline.net> wrote in message
> news:04G6e.1556$WB....@fe12.lga...
>
>>But the ship isn't named Liberty. It's named Carnival Liberty. Like in
>>the past tradition of the Destiny and Spirit class ships, I view Carnival
>>Destiny about the destiny of the corporation, Carnival Victory about
>>corporate victories, Carnival Pride about corporate pride, and Carnival
>>Triumph about corporate triumphs. Maybe I'm alone in this, but that's how
>>I interpret the naming convention.
>>
>>If you want Liberty, then name it Liberty. That's what they did with
>>Fantasy, Paradise, etc.
>
>
> Me thinks you are reading too much into the names, Tom...Fortunately no
> other cruise line has a ship named Fantasy, Paradise, Inspiration,
> Celebration or Sensation, etc..
My problem isn't just Carnival. RCI is naming a new ship Freedom of the
Seas. NCL is calling a ship Pride of America. It's a trend that annoys
people who live in other countries about us. Agree or disagree, it is
something that bugs many non-U.S. citizens.
> Who knows, with all the new ships being built, we may have another Victory,
> Triumph or Liberty.....Some of the cruise lines have ships with the same
> name or close to the same name, that it can get confusing..especially to new
> cruisers..By putting Carnival or Radisson, etc. in front the of the ship's
> name should make it less confusing..
>
Victory, Conquest, are pretty macho names and not my favorite for ships.
But these names do not have the same connection with present U.S.
politics and U.S. nationalism as Freedom or Liberty.
Ben S.
> --Jean
>
>
Benjamin Smith
If Carnival wants to name it Liberty, then sail it in America. To sail
it in Europe blasting the name all over the ship is rather tacky, IMO,
and knowing what I know of a good amount of European opinion, will
strike them as overbearing.
Ben
E.k.R.
"Benjamin Smith" <be...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:a5H6e.7478$44....@newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net...
> We can support and encourage it when it is homegrown, but I think we've
> gone far too far in stating over and over, rather ad nauseum, how much we
> stand for freedom. We say it so much it starts to lose its impact and
> meaning. Naming commercial products using Freedom and Liberty further
> devalues their strength as concepts. 9/11 happened over 3 years ago. It is
> beyond the time that we have to make everything about liberty and freedom,
> including the names of ships, buildings, and even food.
>
> Ben S.
Ben, I agree 100%. As an American I am as patriotic as the next guy,
although I don't agree with patriotism being exploited for commercial
purposes such as with CARNIVAL FREEDOM, CARNIVAL LIBERTY, FREEDOM OF THE
SEAS, and so on. I don't have a problem with PRIDE OF AMERICA since this
ship is actually registered in the US with an American crew. More than any
other ship, PRIDE OF AMERICA deserves the name (even if the ship was built
in Germany). As for Carnival and Royal Caribbean ... well there is very
little American about them except they happen to have their headquarters in
the US.
As an American I'm also tired of having patriotism shoved down my throat.
I'm patriotic on my own terms, not because "Dubya" says "it's the right
thing to do".
Ernie
Jean O'Boyle
> Jean O'Boyle wrote:
>
>> Who knows, with all the new ships being built, we may have another
>> Victory, Triumph or Liberty.....Some of the cruise lines have ships with
>> the same name or close to the same name, that it can get
>> confusing..especially to new cruisers..By putting Carnival or Radisson,
>> etc. in front the of the ship's name should make it less confusing..
>>
>
> Victory, Conquest, are pretty macho names and not my favorite for ships.
> But these names do not have the same connection with present U.S. politics
> and U.S. nationalism as Freedom or Liberty.
Ben, what about the countries in Europe naming their ships? ..Remember the
Norway was formerly was named, France?
Holland America is on all its ships.. We, Americans do/did not protest any
European names and enjoyed sailing on them regardless of the names. How
about Queen Elizabeth 2 and Queen Mary 2? What a *hulla la ba loo* there
would be if we sent a cruise ship out with one of our president's names into
their waters or a cruise ship named The United States? Just think of their
reaction!
Too much is being made of it. I think Europe is being far too sensitive as
to what we name our ships...the ships mostly sail in the North American,
Pacific and Caribbean waters as it is.....whose inhabitants could care less
what they are named as long as they help their economy. Europe has gotten to
the point that they are not happy with anything we do...They connect or try
to connect anything and everything we do to politics. It's time for them to
get over it.
Why wasn't any complaining done when President Reagan was in the White
House about patriotism? He was the one who was very big on Americans being
proud of their country, patriotism boomed in his administration....now all
the sudden people think it is *in* to degrade the US.. All we hear is people
running down the US and I'm tired of it...Shame on us! No matter where you
live or what nationality or race you are, you should be proud of it...Every
country has its faults..none is perfect...I come from European heritage,
first generation in fact....my parents were immigrants and they fiercely
loved this country...I do too. It's time to count our blessings, not our
faults.
--Jean
Benjamin Smith
I find John Paul 2's words astute. "The unforgiveable sins this earth
must confront and overcome are Nationalism... The idea of every nation
should be forgot..." I'm not responsible for my nationality, I'm a
member of the human race, and I share the globe with others. Different
social areas and what governs them can work towards cross pollination of
concepts.
I sense a lack of moderation from within particular segments and between
different segments of the human family.
Ben S.
> --Jean
>
>
Jean O'Boyle
> I find John Paul 2's words astute. "The unforgiveable sins this earth
> must confront and overcome are Nationalism... The idea of every nation
> should be forgot..." I'm not responsible for my nationality, I'm a member
> of the human race, and I share the globe with others. Different social
> areas and what governs them can work towards cross pollination of
> concepts.
>
> I sense a lack of moderation from within particular segments and between
> different segments of the human family.
Ben, I very much agree with the Pope's words...But he also has said, if you
do not love yourself, you cannot love others. An angry, critical heart that
dislikes itself, finds fault with others, cannot like and interact well with
others...there is no room for love as it is too consumed by hate.
If you like what you are, who you are, what you do, you become pleased with
yourself and making it easy to believe that all people who share this earth
are one family, no matter their religion, ethnicity, life style or color. No
one should be ashamed of who they are and where they come from..What I am
trying to say, is if we don't like ourselves as a people and what we stand
for, we cannot like others, understand them nor live peacefully with them.
We have to strive every day to do what is right..That goes back to our
original discussion...we need to stop constantly making critical,demeaning
and many times irrational statements about our government. One rule at our
house has been, *If you can't do it better yourself, don't criticize!*
Heaven knows our country has many flaws, but we also need to like who we are
because of the good we have done, and it is much, even though we need to do
much more.
--Jean
Jean O'Boyle
"Benjamin Smith" <be...@Ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:1113309996.7...@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
> I don't support irrational opinions about anything. I support
> enlightenment and continual understanding and improvement through
> analysis that may include constructive criticism. The point of
> plurality and freedom is to not restrict the means to knowledge and
> expression. Constructive criticism can be a means to improvement,
> irrational criticism is usually venting. Sometimes, you have to look
> from without to get a clearer picture of yourself, even if those who
> criticize you have their own flaws and issues.
Exactly, Ben...fairly balanced constructive criticism is good...criticism
that is so biased and unfair because we are motivated too strongly by our
political views, simply because we hate a person or persons, ends up
entirely subjective instead of objective and is destructive. There are ways
of criticizing besides name calling, making derogative statements about that
person's/persons' appearance, their family,etc..How often do you read such
trashing about other governments in the world? Some people who even dare to
complain about their country or government, end up in prison or never to be
seen again..We, as Americans, have much for which to be thankful and
proud..We tend to dwell too much on the bad and the sad...just look at our
news media.. it makes it sound as if there is absolutely no good happening
in the world or our country..they concentrate on the worst because
sensationalism means money.. If measures are taken to protect us from
terrorism, people complain...if measures are not taken , people complain..
If one can think of a better way, try and help implement it, don't just sit
there in one's easy chair with your remote and criticize..
> Self love is healthy, narcissim isn't. Patriotism is healthy,
> nationalism can become dangerous, as can jingoism. Commercialiizing
> and making slogans of noble concepts, such as Liberty and Freedom, I
> feel, is unhealthy, devaluing the concepts. It becomes overbearing to
> others when it is so frequently stated almost as an exclusive as if one
> nation had a monopoly on the concepts, originated the concepts, or have
> patented the concepts.
Again, I agree, but Liberty and Freedom stand for everyone who enjoys them,
not just us in the US...they are only devaluated if used by any nation that
is oppressed, and there are many.
Peace!
--Jean
> Ben
Benjamin Smith
I don't support irrational opinions about anything. I support
enlightenment and continual understanding and improvement through
analysis that may include constructive criticism. The point of
plurality and freedom is to not restrict the means to knowledge and
expression. Constructive criticism can be a means to improvement,
irrational criticism is usually venting. Sometimes, you have to look
from without to get a clearer picture of yourself, even if those who
criticize you have their own flaws and issues.
Self love is healthy, narcissim isn't. Patriotism is healthy,
nationalism can become dangerous, as can jingoism. Commercialiizing
and making slogans of noble concepts, such as Liberty and Freedom, I
feel, is unhealthy, devaluing the concepts. It becomes overbearing to
others when it is so frequently stated almost as an exclusive as if one
nation had a monopoly on the concepts, originated the concepts, or have
patented the concepts.
Ben
> --Jean
E.k.R.
"Jean O'Boyle" <j.ob...@removefudged.sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:WmJ6e.583$JJ2...@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com...
That goes back to our
> original discussion...we need to stop constantly making critical,demeaning
I disagree. The "American way" *is* to criticize our government. The fact
that we do have the right to question and criticize our government is one of
the reasons which makes America great to begin with. Certainly there was
never a government more worthy of criticism than our current administration.
;)
Ernie
Benjamin Smith
> "Benjamin Smith" <be...@Ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
> news:1113309996.7...@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
> > I don't support irrational opinions about anything. I support
> > enlightenment and continual understanding and improvement through
> > analysis that may include constructive criticism. The point of
> > plurality and freedom is to not restrict the means to knowledge and
> > expression. Constructive criticism can be a means to improvement,
> > irrational criticism is usually venting. Sometimes, you have to
look
> > from without to get a clearer picture of yourself, even if those
who
> > criticize you have their own flaws and issues.
>
> Exactly, Ben...fairly balanced constructive criticism is good
My sister-in-law was born in New York City and lived there most of her
life. She went to Belgium to study and stayed there. She's a dual
citizen of both the US and Belgium. My mother-in-law lives in both
Belgium and New York City, she spent much of her life and raised her
daughters in New York City and surrounding towns. She resides in the
US half of the year. They offered across-the-board criticism of the
USA, Belgium, Germany, Italy, Britain, France, and other places they've
stayed in for an amount of time. I have a friend originally from Baku,
Azerbaijan, that lived in Soviet Armenia, Soviet Russia, Italy, the US,
Holland, and currently lives in Germany. I find his criticisms and
observations balanced, and not biased toward any particular country.
The thing of it is when you have lived in so many places you gain more
perspective, these are added to your own biases and tastes, and you
discuss similarities and differences in cultures, including negative
traits such as insular behavoir, ugly false pride about your identity
and culture, intolerance, etc. No country, government, etc. is above
analysis and criticism, as long as the criticism is informed and not
targeted towards one country or people. I feel there are trends in
today's America that need addressing. If I lived in other countries,
I'd be critical of them as well.
...criticism
> that is so biased and unfair because we are motivated too strongly by
our
> political views, simply because we hate a person or persons, ends up
> entirely subjective instead of objective and is destructive. There
are ways
> of criticizing besides name calling, making derogative statements
about that
> person's/persons' appearance, their family,etc..How often do you read
such
> trashing about other governments in the world?
The US government attacks and trashes governments and sometimes people
from around the world on a regular basis, as does some of our media. We
don't have a monopoly on that in the least, but we do it.
Some people who even dare to
> complain about their country or government, end up in prison or never
to be
> seen again..We, as Americans, have much for which to be thankful and
> proud..We tend to dwell too much on the bad and the sad...just look
at our
> news media.. it makes it sound as if there is absolutely no good
happening
> in the world or our country..they concentrate on the worst because
> sensationalism means money..
In often boils down to money in America. I think we dwell on banality
much too often.
> Again, I agree, but Liberty and Freedom stand for everyone who enjoys
them,
> not just us in the US..
We must allow differences in applications of Liberty and Freedom, and
discuss things philisophically considering particular history, culture,
and cultural psychology.
they are only devaluated if used by any nation that
> is oppressed, and there are many.
>
Trite commercialism of the terms and overuse leads to devaluation of
the terms, IMO.
> Peace!
>
Absolutely.
Ben
> --Jean
>
> > Ben
Jean O'Boyle
> My sister-in-law was born in New York City and lived there most of her
> life. She went to Belgium to study and stayed there. She's a dual
> citizen of both the US and Belgium. My mother-in-law lives in both
> Belgium and New York City, she spent much of her life and raised her
> daughters in New York City and surrounding towns. She resides in the
> US half of the year. They offered across-the-board criticism of the
> USA, Belgium, Germany, Italy, Britain, France, and other places they've
> stayed in for an amount of time. I have a friend originally from Baku,
> Azerbaijan, that lived in Soviet Armenia, Soviet Russia, Italy, the US,
> Holland, and currently lives in Germany. I find his criticisms and
> observations balanced, and not biased toward any particular country.
> The thing of it is when you have lived in so many places you gain more
> perspective, these are added to your own biases and tastes, and you
> discuss similarities and differences in cultures, including negative
> traits such as insular behavoir, ugly false pride about your identity
> and culture, intolerance, etc. No country, government, etc. is above
> analysis and criticism, as long as the criticism is informed and not
> targeted towards one country or people. I feel there are trends in
> today's America that need addressing. If I lived in other countries,
> I'd be critical of them as well.
With their broad spectrum of experience, I consider their criticisms
objective and valid...It's the people who rant on and on without any purpose
except to sow discontent and the very subjective news media that do the most
harm.. The media does not report the news..it interprets their version of
the news...you would think that they would give us credit for having a
brain, to be able to discern for ourselves and make our own opinions.
Instead, they stir people up in a frenzy with their
biased and slanted views. I don't even read the newspaper anymore and we buy
it only on Sunday...The nightly news on TV has enough distress in it..I
dislike the steady diet of nothing being right in this world..I'd like some
good things mentioned as well. I know there are bad things going on out
there, but let's not forget that there are good things happening as well.
>> Some people who even dare to
>> complain about their country or government, end up in prison or never
> to be
>> seen again..We, as Americans, have much for which to be thankful and
>> proud..We tend to dwell too much on the bad and the sad...just look
> at our
>> news media.. it makes it sound as if there is absolutely no good
> happening
>> in the world or our country..they concentrate on the worst because
>> sensationalism means money..
>
> In often boils down to money in America. I think we dwell on banality
> much too often.
Probably so, but we can control that. San Antonio has only one paper and
many of my friends refuse to even buy it because it is so subjective.
>> Again, I agree, but Liberty and Freedom stand for everyone who enjoys
> them,
>> not just us in the US..
>
> We must allow differences in applications of Liberty and Freedom, and
> discuss things philisophically considering particular history, culture,
> and cultural psychology.
>
> they are only devaluated if used by any nation that
>> is oppressed, and there are many.
>>
>
> Trite commercialism of the terms and overuse leads to devaluation of
> the terms, IMO.
True, but I would not take offense if any other country put a ship out there
named for those same or other noble concepts..I would applaud them for it.
This has been a very interesting discourse, Ben, thanks!
--Jean.
> Ben
>
>> --Jean
>>
>> > Ben
>
Charles
Benjamin Smith <be...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
"Liberty, fraternity, equality......" Liberty seems as much in the
European tradition as in the US tradition.
I still don't get how "Liberty" will strike European opinion as
overbearing. What negative emotion do you believe it evokes? The only
thing I see tacky about it is that I don't associate Carnival with
liberty.
--
Charles
Charles
<eroll...@fotki.com> wrote:
> Ben, I agree 100%. As an American I am as patriotic as the next guy,
> although I don't agree with patriotism being exploited for commercial
> purposes such as with CARNIVAL FREEDOM, CARNIVAL LIBERTY, FREEDOM OF THE
> SEAS, and so on.
Much ado over nothing.
When I take a cruise on Freedom of the Seas it is not going to evoke
any political emotions. To most it will probably evoke a week of
Freedom from the rat race.
--
Charles
Charles
<j.ob...@removefudged.sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> Too much is being made of it. I think Europe is being far too sensitive as
> to what we name our ships...
I doubt they give a diddle about those ship names.
--
Charles
Jean O'Boyle
"Charles" <fo...@his.com.remove.invalid> wrote in message
news:120420051726180776%fo...@his.com.remove.invalid...
> When I take a cruise on Freedom of the Seas it is not going to evoke
> any political emotions. To most it will probably evoke a week of
> Freedom from the rat race.
Way to go, Charles!
--Jean ;-)
Benjamin Smith
> In article <rjH6e.4296$go4....@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net>,
> Benjamin Smith <be...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>
>
>>If Carnival wants to name it Liberty, then sail it in America. To sail
>>it in Europe blasting the name all over the ship is rather tacky, IMO,
>>and knowing what I know of a good amount of European opinion, will
>>strike them as overbearing.
>
>
> "Liberty, fraternity, equality......" Liberty seems as much in the
> European tradition as in the US tradition.
>
> I still don't get how "Liberty" will strike European opinion as
> overbearing. What negative emotion do you believe it evokes?
Just more and more of the same thing. Listen to a Bush speech or
address, how many times does he mention freedom or liberty? It's way
overused and now it is appearing on commercial products and a lot of it
is in our advertising as well. I think it is associated with jingoism
with the U.S., that's what is negative about it. That's what has been
expressed to me as objectionable by people from Europe.
The only
> thing I see tacky about it is that I don't associate Carnival with
> liberty.
>
There's the Statue of Liberty (not a statue of liberty) and several
monuments to Freedom in the U.S.A. that have a profound meaning to them.
I think "liberty" should be used sparingly and carefully. The more you
use a term, the less impact it has. I don't like the new tower going up
in the area of the World Trade Center being called Freedom tower. It's
just going to be a commercial building, not a symbol of anything.
There's just too much we'll show the terrorists this and that where they
could care less. We are showing the world how much this one horrible act
still affects are psyche, and I'm sorry, we are overreacting by a large
margin to it.
Ben S.
Benjamin Smith
> In article <rvH6e.57856$vK6....@bignews3.bellsouth.net>, E.k.R.
> <eroll...@fotki.com> wrote:
>
>
>>Ben, I agree 100%. As an American I am as patriotic as the next guy,
>>although I don't agree with patriotism being exploited for commercial
>>purposes such as with CARNIVAL FREEDOM, CARNIVAL LIBERTY, FREEDOM OF THE
>>SEAS, and so on.
>
>
> Much ado over nothing.
>
For you, maybe. But if you check out comments on the BBC from around the
world or other foreign publications you'll find plenty critical comments
about how various centers in the U.S., including commercial, exploit
freedom to justify much of what it does.
> When I take a cruise on Freedom of the Seas it is not going to evoke
> any political emotions. To most it will probably evoke a week of
> Freedom from the rat race.
>
There is a strong theme and message sent out to the world with this
*pattern* of naming our commercial products. It isn't about who is
sailing them and how they feel as it is more about exploiting
patriotism. Ships have had names of places and people used, but not
often political concepts. These are political, patriotic names.
Ben S.
Dick Goldhaber
You have made it virtually impossible for anyone to killfile you,
particularly if they do it by your e-mail address.
Since I DON'T want to ever miss any of your contributions, I created a
message rule which shows your posts in red. Since I first created the rule
you have changed your return address 14 times.
Why?
--
DG in Cherry Hill, NJ
videomav...@comcast.net
"Karen Segboer" <karens@.spudds.cupcaked.com> wrote in message
news:42636d71...@news.optonline.com...
> "Jean O'Boyle" <j.ob...@removefudged.sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> BTW, have you ever heard of the SS United States, one of the greatest
> ocean liners ever, which was built here in this country? We had
> several ships named after presidents, too.
>
> Do your homework before you post next time.
>
> Karen, yes, yes, yes ... you have me killfiled but I bet one of your
> buddies sends this to you.