Celebrity Finally Answers VERY LONG
Richard Rynar
As many of you know I sent a letter to Celebrity on January 14th 1998 and As
of March 13th they still had not replied. At that point I Faxed the letter
to Mr. Sasso. On Saturday March 29th I received an answer in the mail. It is
interesting to note that the letter is dated March 20 and the envelope which
I did not scan has a postage meter date of March 26. (No comment)
I have taken the liberty to repost the original letter with out address and
the answer from Celebrity. The answer and the original letter are 100% as
written and unedited except for the removal of addresses and telephone
numbers.
I will make no comments at all about the reply. Please draw you own
conclusions. Since the original was posted during Anti-Flame Week all Flames
and inane remarks will be totally ignored.
If you wish to respond by email remove nospam from the header.
ORIGINAL TO CELEBRITY:
Mr. Richard Sasso Pres.
Celebrity Cruises Lines
5201 Blue Lagoon Drive
Miami FL 33126
Dear Mr. Sasso:
My wife and I sailed on the MV Mercury December 28, 1997. We would like to
congratulate you and Celebrity for producing such a fine ship. There are a
few things I would like bring to your attention for special praise, and
three for closer examination by yourself and Celebrity.
First, the restaurant manager Jose is truly one of the finest people in the
hospitality business that we have had the pleasure of encountering. He
handled a very unpleasant situation in a most professional manner and saved
us from what could have been a situation that would have totally destroyed
our vacation.
Secondly, our waiter Mladin was the best waiter we have ever had on any of
our eight cruises.
Third, our cabin steward, Sabino is a gem to be treasured for his ability to
anticipate our needs and his superb service.
Fourth, the people at guest relations also deserve special mention for their
graciousness and hard work to satisfy us and the passengers.
However there are three things that I believe warrant very careful scrutiny
by Celebrity.
First, and thankfully on this cruise something that did not effect the
cruise in any way but could have had a very serious consequence. When we had
our life boat drill we felt it was conducted in a most unprofessional manner
and the crew did not give it the serious consideration it deserved. When it
was time for the drill my wife and I each took a life jacket from the
closet. I took an adult jacket and put it on. My wife in her haste
unknowingly grabbed a child’s life jacket and put it on. Since I know that
she is aware of how to put on a life jacket from our previous cruises I did
not bother to check her. As we approached our assembly point (I believe
station B) one of the crew started to laugh at my wife, at that point I
looked at her more closely and realized that she had on a childs jacket.
Interestingly enough the person who laughed at her did not point out her
mistake,
neither did any other crew member point out to her that she had the wrong
jacket. I should make clear to you we were not insulted by the laughter, but
we are disturbed by the fact that no one pointed out her error. We were then
told to go to a station on deck by the life boats and line up.
In comparison to all of our previous cruises the drill was very poorly
conducted. Nobody from the crew checked the passengers to see that we were
lined up properly, the passengers milled about in a haphazardly manner,
people were smoking, and nobody checked to see if the life jackets were put
on properly. Fortunately all of this was of no consequence, but the
procedures are very lax to say the least, and in our opinion should be
tightened up so as to avoid problems in the event of an emergency.
Second, when our travel agent (Cruises Only, Mr. R.J. Fontana) made our
reservations he was assured by Mr. Vinny Sanchez, Director of Inventory
for the Mercury that we would receive late seating. When our documents
arrived they did not have a confirmed late seating, so the TA called
Celebrity and was assured by Mr. Sanchez that we would receive late seating.
Needless to say when we arrived aboard ship we were told that we would not
receive late seating. My traveling companions (Mr. and Mrs. Bommarito) had
arrived earlier and also told the Maitre d’ of the confirmation with Mr.
Sanchez. The Maitre d’ said to me that this was not the first time this
exact situation had occurred. I must say that if not for Jose creating a
special table for the Bommaritos’, my wife and myself, on the third night,
this cruise would have been a total disaster. As it was, we were very
displeased to have the first two days of our vacation made very unpleasant
by being required to eat at a time that was totally out of the ordinary for
our life style and usual eating habits.
Third and most distressing of all was the air travel arranged by Celebrity.
We were booked on flight 40 of Tower Air from New York at 9:30AM to Miami on
12/28/97. The aircraft arrived late to New York and was delayed due to
mechanical failure. Upon arrival in Miami we were further held up because
some ignorant individual from Celebrity held the transport busses because
three or four people out of over 75 did not tag their luggage, so we had to
wait for these people to claim their bags. What possible reason could
someone with intelligence and a position of responsibility have that 75 to
80 people should have to wait because others could not follow the directions
sent to them by Celebrity. However the worst was the return trip home on
January 4. We arrived at Miami airport at 11:30AM for flight 41 scheduled
to leave Miami at 2:40PM. What we found was a tremendous mass of people and
5 Dade County Police officers at the ticket counter. The flight that was
scheduled to leave at 10:30 that morning was canceled and people had no
place to stay or go. After standing on line for one hour and moving about 25
feet I went to the ticket counter and asked what the situation was. I was
told by the agents at Tower Air that we might not get an aircraft that day.
We were not given any information unless we went up to the counter and
demanded answers. I asked a sergeant from the Dade County Police why they
were there and his exact words were “I am here to brake up the fist fights
that will start a little later when this crowd finds out what is really
happening.” I then asked him is this normal for Tower and he said “yes."
It turned out that Tower sold 700 tickets for an aircraft that has 415
seats. It was absolute pandemonium. I was interviewed by two TV stations,
channel 10 and I believe channel 4. I was not kind to Tower Air at all. We
did not arrive at JFK until after 10PM. I find it extremely distressing that
a company of the caliber that Celebrity holds itself to be would book guests
on an airline that has the well-deserved poor reputation and poor record of
performance Tower.
My wife and I feel that we should receive monetary compensation for the
disruption of our schedule and meals for two days and the absolute nightmare
of the Tower Air near riot.
I look forward to your response.
Most Sincerely,
Richard S. Rynar
REPLY FROM CELEBRITY
March 20, 1998
Mr. Richard Rynar
RE: Mercury
December 28, 1997
Dear Mr. Rynar:
Thank you for your letter regarding the above mentioned sailing, which after
review by Mr. Richard Sasso, President, has been directed to the Passenger
Relations Department for reply.
We appreciate the time you have taken to acknowledge the service received.
We are taking the liberty of sending a copy of your letter to our executives
ashore and on the vessel, so they may also take note of your kind remarks
and personally recognize our outstanding staff members Jose, Miadin, and
Sabino.
We are sorry to read your report regarding the overall level of service
provided by our staff during the lifeboat drill. Since guests take cruises
to have a great time, we put forth tremendous effort in all areas of
operation to make sure their expectations are met. Please be assured that
any display of an uncooperative or unprofessional level of service by any
staff member is not the image we want to portray or how we want to be
remembered. Therefore, a copy of this report has been forwarded to the
appropriate management personnel in order that they may be aware of your
observations.
We are aware of your dissatisfaction with the seating assignment you
received in the dining room. Although you had submitted seating preferences
long before the departure date of the cruise, please bear in mind that this
was a request and we are unable to make guarantees.
It has often been our experience that the requests for a particular table
size or a specific seating time, may far exceed the dining room capacity. As
a result, the logistics of the situation often place a demand on us to
initially assign, in an impartial manner, some of our guests to seating
assignments that were not their original request or preference. We would
like you to accept our apologies since it appears that we were unable to
satisfy your wishes.
We sincerely regret to learn of the difficulties encountered with Tower Air.
To accommodate our cruise guests, we purchase blocks of seats from the
airlines on their scheduled flights. We are bound to accept whatever space
is available on these flights at the time of confirmation.
Mr. Richard Rynar
March 20, 1998
Page 2
Although every effort is made to obtain preferred flights for our
passengers, airline restrictions may prevent us from doing so. Please accept
our apologies that your flight arrangements did not meet your expectations.
Tower Air is one of several independent companies, which does business with
Celebrity Cruises, and is fully responsible to insure that any difficulties
experienced by guests while on their airline are handled in the best
possible manner. As a courtesy, a copy of your letter will be sent to Tower
Air's Consumer Relations Department for their review. Regrettably, we are
unable to comply with your request for compensation.
In our efforts to meet the specific travel needs of our guests, we now offer
the opportunity for them to make preferred flight arrangements, at a minimum
service charge. through our Customer program. These requests must be
received in writing from travel agents no later than 45 days prior to the
sailing date. Although we cannot promise that every request will be
fulfilled, we can assure you that all efforts will be made to provide
assistance.
Again, thank you for bringing this matter to our attention. We look forward
to the opportunity of welcoming you back onboard one of our vessels in the
near future.
Sincerely,
Lourdes Carraanza-Alvarez
Passenger Relations
0029936A
ARLENEMILT
Boo Hoo... Richard's not getting compensated. That was what it was all
about in the first place, wasn't it Richard? $$$ and/or freebies!
Arlene
McCormick
Thank you Lee! My thoughts exactly.
Yvonne
--
Just hanging out til our next cruise,
The McCormick's @ dyl...@conknet.com
Lee Lindquist wrote in message <3522796a...@news.MCI2000.com>...
>Don't you hate it when someone quotes 300+ lines of a post, just
>to add something that's not worth reading?
>
>
>
> - Lee
>
> lindquist 'at' ibm 'decimal-point' net
Ken Stutt
Hi,
Looks to me that they sent you a reasonable reply. If it had happened
to me I would be satisfied that I got their attention. I wouldn't have
expected more.
--
Ken Stutt
Cruising Is Fun!: http://www.stutt.com/cif/fun.html (new address)
Now Available: "The Wheelhouse" - my cruising newsletter. To
subscribe please send me an e-mail. No charge. I would like to have
your full name.
Welch
> >
>
> Don't you hate it when someone quotes 300+ lines of a post, just
> to add something that's not worth reading?
>
> - Lee
>
>
I was looking through this thread and thought "man doesn't anyone know
how to use a delete key?" Very funny you actually made me laugh out
loud! Have a great day Lee!
--
Debra Yates Welch
http://www.welchtravel.com
972-623-1261 fax 972-602-6890 1-800-292-3036
mailto:twe...@airmail.net
Anony-mouse
Okay, I've lurked on this board for almost a year, and it took this letter
to finally give me a voice. I'm quite surprised that Celebrity would even
answer this letter. Although late seating was requested, it was simply
that--a request. With that logic, I should get monetary compensation from
the drivers in traffic and my employers everytime I miss lunch.
Travelling requires flexibility. Sure we take cruises to relax and be
pampered...but we cannot have EVERYTHING we desire. When you're talking
about trying to meet the needs of 1500 passengers, there has to be some give
and take. If you can't do this, buy a condo and dine at your normal
schedule.
Just some thoughts, but this has to be the most RIDICULOUS thing I've read
to date.
Appdad
"Richard Rynar" <fro...@nospam.mindspring.com> wrote -
<<As many of you know I sent a letter to Celebrity on January 14th 1998 and As
of March 13th they still had not replied. At that point I Faxed the letter to
Mr. Sasso. On Saturday March 29th I received an answer in the mail. It is
interesting to note that the letter is dated March 20 and the envelope which I
did not scan has a postage meter date of March 26. (No comment)>>
Gosh, fellow - find somone who cares. So what if you didn't get the table you
wanted the first two nights, you still got fed didn't you? We were on the
Century last week. It was the best vacation we ever had. There were a few very,
very minor complaints, but I can't imagine ever be so concerned that I would go
to the lengths you have over this. It seems to be the mind-set these days that
just as soon as things start to go wrong, we start looking around to see who we
can blame and how much we can get out of it. I guess I should have mailed off a
letter to Celebrity asking for compensation because my Swan Thingee was
partially frozen or because I got tired of hearing the bar waiter at the pool
calling out "Here comes Cheap Charlie" over and over.
-----
John Davis app...@aol.com
George in NY
On 1 Apr 1998 12:39:22 GMT, app...@aol.com (Appdad) wrote:
-snipped-
> I guess I should have mailed off a
>letter to Celebrity asking for compensation because my Swan Thingee was
>partially frozen or because I got tired of hearing the bar waiter at the pool
>calling out "Here comes Cheap Charlie" over and over.
John,
Welcome back home if I haven't extended already :) Regarding your
frozen swan thingee. As I lay claim to being the originator of the
term, yes there are pretenders to the throne but aren't there always,
I must offer comment. :) It is my belief that your Swan thingee was
not prepared and frozen then defrosted, such a situation would be
intolerable. I would say what probably occurs is that as they are
prepared they are then refrigerated. Your poor swan probably just
happened to be located in the refrigerator section that was just a tad
too cold which caused it to partially freeze. I believe a complete
investigation should be initiated by proper authorities.
Write to the Commission on proper Swan-Thingee serving immediately. We
will look forward to seeing your letter and responses posted here in
the future.
George in NY
CRUISE NEWS is BACK at
http://pages.prodigy.net/georgehny
Fred Lanyard
geor...@prodigy.net (George in NY) wrote:
> I believe a complete
>investigation should be initiated by proper authorities.
>
>Write to the Commission on proper Swan-Thingee serving immediately. We
>will look forward to seeing your letter and responses posted here in
>the future.
Hi George,
The Executive Board of rec.travel.cruises has made this Topic One of
their April 1 meeting. A full report will be forthcoming.
Regards,
Fred Lanyard
CRUISE VALUE CENTER
(800)231-SHIP Residence:(732)636-0938
CupCaked
geor...@prodigy.net (George in NY) wrote:
>John,
>I believe a complete
>investigation should be initiated by proper authorities.
>Write to the Commission on proper Swan-Thingee serving immediately.
Not to worry, George. The Pan-International Pastry Society (the PIPS)
monitors this newsgroup (amounsgt others), and as soon as word about
John's polar Swan got out, they were all over the problem like a cheap
suit.
A 3,078 page report is forthcoming.
By the Book
Anony-mouse <anony...@teleport.com> wrote in article
<6fsj4k$ku8$1...@news1.teleport.com>...
Welcome aboard!!! (You ain't seen NOTHIN' yet - wait till UZOOM starts
posting again! )
Now that you've de-lurked, hope you stick around and chat with us.
Kate in NY
Stephan in TO
As the Captain guided the mv Perfecto to her next port,
geor...@prodigy.net (George in NY) wrote:
>I believe a complete
>investigation should be initiated by proper authorities.
Just picked this up from the Canadian Press newswire:
OTTAWA (CP) Prime Minister Jean Cretien has today announced that the
Federal Government will launch a Royal Commission to fully investigate
the presence of Frozen Swan Thingees. The Royal Commission will be
headed by retired Ontario Chief Justice Charles Dubin, who also headed
the inquiry which investigated the Ben Johnson drug scandal of the
1988 Seoul Olympics.
"This must be fully investigated, as I understand a number of
Canadians are planning on sailing with Celebrity Cruise Line in
December of 1998, and this government will not tolerate Canadians
abroad being forced to consume frozen food items in the dead of
winter" said Prime Minister Cretien as he announced the creation of
the Royal Commission to loud applause in the House of Commons.
In a rare show of solidarity, all political parties, even the Bloc
Quebecois, unanimously backed the government. "It's wonderful to see
this government moving so quickly to protect not only Canadians, but
all other nationalities as well", said Opposition Leader Preson
Manning.
Justice Dubin fully expects the Royal Commission to begin it's
investigation as soon as a Penthouse Suite could be booked on the
Mercury, and other vessels in the Celebrity fleet. As he was seen
boarding a plane at Ottawa airport, Justice Dubin was quoted as saying
"It's a good thing I have my Captain's Club membership. I assure all
Canadians that I plan to remain aboard until this issue has been fully
resolved to the government's satisfaction".
Officals from Celebrity Cruise Line could not be reached for comment,
however, Peg Caldwell-Ott of New York, while dismissing the claims of
frozen Swan-Thingees, welcomed the Royal Commission by beginning to
make a quilt.
Stephan in TO
remove the "x"s to e-mail me
Aaron Farr
There are places in the world where frozen Swan Thingee's are the par de
excellance, it is simply because we are used to thinking of frozen food as
sub par, that we don't appreciate the finer points of the culinary arts.
Fred Lanyard wrote in message <6ftlgn$p...@bgtnsc03.worldnet.att.net>...
>geor...@prodigy.net (George in NY) wrote:
>
>> I believe a complete
>>investigation should be initiated by proper authorities.
>>
Anony-mouse
I think he should send a letter to Sasso and Celebrity, and be refunded his
entire cruise, and all port charges. Perhaps they could erect a monument in
his honor for his SwanThingee (tm) Suffering. (Just a joke, but strikingly
similar to the requests in the original poster's note.
George in NY wrote in message <3523496d...@news.prodigy.net>...
>On 1 Apr 1998 12:39:22 GMT, app...@aol.com (Appdad) wrote:
>
>-snipped-
>> I guess I should have mailed off a
>>letter to Celebrity asking for compensation because my Swan Thingee was
>>partially frozen or because I got tired of hearing the bar waiter at the
pool
>>calling out "Here comes Cheap Charlie" over and over.
>
>John,
>Welcome back home if I haven't extended already :) Regarding your
>frozen swan thingee. As I lay claim to being the originator of the
>term, yes there are pretenders to the throne but aren't there always,
>I must offer comment. :) It is my belief that your Swan thingee was
>not prepared and frozen then defrosted, such a situation would be
>intolerable. I would say what probably occurs is that as they are
>prepared they are then refrigerated. Your poor swan probably just
>happened to be located in the refrigerator section that was just a tad
>too cold which caused it to partially freeze. I believe a complete
>investigation should be initiated by proper authorities.
>
>Write to the Commission on proper Swan-Thingee serving immediately. We
>will look forward to seeing your letter and responses posted here in
>the future.
>
John
But, at least some folks can put the reply at the top so those of us
with slow readers don't have to scroll down all that old text to see the
new, few, words of wisdom! Please, everybody, put replies either at the
top of the text of interspersed with the original.
John Davis
My point exactly, that's why I replied like I did. Sure I saw a couple of
things that I wasn't 100% satisfied with, but in no way did they come
remotely close to ruining what was an excellent cruise. Much less lead me to
even consider writing letters asking for any monetary compensation (what is a
swan-thingee worth, cash wise anyway?). My prime rib/lobster combination on
Thursday far made up for my partially-frozen swan. It just seems to me not
getting the table you want for 2 nights, is not grounds for anything. Now I
don't know about the air problem. Seems to me that folks know when they book
with a line their air, they are going to be at the mercy of the line for
their flight and I think you could assume that the line will try to get you
on the cheapest flight they can. That is why I either book my own or drive
down. It puts me in control of the situation.
John
=====
John Davis gowol...@pobox.com
Due to spam this article contains a bogus email addres; email replies
should use the address above after removing "go".
In article <6fupm8$7vq$1...@news1.teleport.com>,
Richard Rynar
The points that are being overlooked are:
The director of inventory for the ship flat out lied to my TA.on TWO
occasions. I believe what the TA said because I've used him for previous
cruises and he has always been absolutely superior in his service and
performance.
Celebrity calls itself a five star cruise line. If you want to be considered
first class in your operation all aspects of the experience you provide must
be equal to the task. As an example, if I contract with an architect to
design and construct a house, the architect is the one responsible for every
single part of the work. Celebrity is responsible for choosing Tower Air.
They are fully aware of the reputation of this airline.
Celebrity refused to acknowledge that it's employee lied and it passed off
the responsibility to Tower Air.
I guess this is a symptom of our time; it's not my fault, it's not my job.
Since I have the power to vote with my wallet where I'll spend my money, it
will not be with Celebrity in the future.
Richard
John Davis wrote in message <6g008f$vij$1...@nina.pagesz.net>...
Chuck K
Believe me when I say that "THEY WON'T MISS YOU"!
Chuck
======================
Richard Rynar
I would guess you are not an employer with a payroll to meet, or run a
business. If you were you would realize it is not just the $5000 to $8000 a
year I spend on cruises, but all the people who I come into contact with who
have the discretionary income to spend on cruises. Most business receive 80%
of their income from their current customer base. It costs approximately
five time more to gain a new customer than to keep a current one.
Richard
Chuck K wrote in message <35241D94...@HatesSpam.com>...
Aaron Farr
Yes, reply's at the top....
Aaron
John wrote in message <3522F814...@mindspring.com>...
>But, at least some folks can put the reply at the top so those of us
>with slow readers don't have to scroll down all that old text to see the
>new, few, words of wisdom! Please, everybody, put replies either at the
>top of the text of interspersed with the original.
>
>McCormick wrote:
>>
Richard Rynar
I don't think anyone has an absolutely perfect vacation. However neither I
nor my TA has been blatantly lied to by a cruise line. Please note that the
restaurant manager confirmed that this same situation had occurred in the
past where the Director of Inventory had lied. So we have a situation where
the on board personal admitted that we were lied to, and the "Home Office"
refuses to admit that a lie had occurred. Even if they did not offer any
monetary compensation they should at least admit that their personal lied
and apologize for that. In addition they also act as if Tower Air appears by
magic to be our transportation to Miami. They selected Tower and should be
held accountable for the actions of their subcontractor.
Richard
NancyS1272 wrote in message
<199804030243...@ladder01.news.aol.com>...
>>If you were you would realize it is not just the $5000 to $8000 a
>>year I spend on cruises, but all the people who I come into contact with
who
>>have the discretionary income to spend on cruises.
>
>Normally, I would agree with you, but if you told me not to sail with
>Celebrity, I would naturally ask why. Next, you would tell me your
complaints
>and I would then laugh in your face. Obviously you have either been graced
>with "perfect" vacations all your life, or every other cruise/resort
company
>that you have vacationed with has compensated you for your petty
complaints.
>Tell me, has there ever been a perfect vacation and or cruise line for you?
>Just what did you want or expect from Celebrity?
NancyS1272
Bob Lee
>
>I will make no comments at all about the reply. Please draw you own
>conclusions. Since the original was posted during Anti-Flame Week all Flames
>and inane remarks will be totally ignored.
>
Yet you persist in making comments about their not apologizing to your
anal satisfaction in the reply they sent you. Why don't you just take
your own advice here and just shut up?
Stephan in TO
I want to make a few comments from the point of view of working for a
large retail chain (but my opinions are strictly my own). When a
customer has been wronged, or has the perception of being wronged, it
takes amazingly little to rectify the situation. Sometimes, just
saying "We screwed up, thanks for bringing it to our attention" is
enough. Sometimes you have to offer some form of compensation, and
sometimes you just can't do a damn thing to satisfy the customer. But
the point is, you have to at least try. You'd be amazed that
sometimes a *totally* peeved-off customer can actually end up being
your most loyal patron and greatest source of new customers.
Customers aren't always right, but they are always the customer. And,
as Richard pointed out, it costs a lot less to keep a customer than it
does to attract a new one.
"Richard Rynar" <fro...@nospam.mindspring.com> wrote:
>I don't think anyone has an absolutely perfect vacation.
Thomas Gauldin
The thing that I would feel bad about- even after the "explanation" was the
side-stepping by the line on its responsibility to book REASONABLE air
travel for the air add-ons. Tower Air has been discussed in print before as
having a less than commendable record for on-time departures and equipment.
Let's take it to an extreme- what if the cruise line booked a carrier that
had a known, deplorable, safety record? What if they had booked
accommodations aboard some little 16-seat puddle jumper for an 8-hour flight
that could have been accomplished far faster with a jet? Does a cruise line
always have to go with the low bidder, or is there some responsibility on
their part to assure the customers that the air add-on is safe and has a
reasonable expectation of being comfortable and on-time?
I personally felt that the reported response by the line about not being
responsible (presumably so long as the plane had wings and a crew with
current licenses) for the airline was begging the question.
--
Tom Gauldin, Raleigh NC
-NetMeeting ils.four11.com, Live Birdfeeder Action
ICQ 7022136 fax (919) 676-1404
ftp://ftp.mindspring.com/pub/users/scoundrl/gauldin1.htm
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------
Here's to the land of the Longleaf Pine,
The Summerland, where the sun doth shine,
Where the weak grow strong, and the strong grow great,
Here's to Downhome, the Old North State.
Richard Rynar wrote in message <6g1kgj$pds$1...@camel29.mindspring.com>...
Spencer Bomar
I own a small business. I do what I can to solve a "reasonable customer's"
request, problem, complaint, etc. I firmly believe the customer is not
always right. A customer is not always "still the customer". I invite
customers to seek other businesses to solve their problem(s) when it is not
a reasonable request. I prefer to let another business deal with the
unreasonable customer than waste my time and energy. I treat other
businesses with respect and understanding when I am a "customer".
Obviously, Rynar is one of those "customers" I would show the door. Money
talks- let his talk elsewhere. I have been on cruises with jerks before. I
am sailing on Celebrity/Century in August- Thank God he won't be on board to
complain about the "swangee things". I like "swangee things".
"You can always get more with honey than vinegar"
Stephan in TO wrote in message <3524f202...@news.newsguy.com>...
>I want to make a few comments from the point of view of working for a
>large retail chain (but my opinions are strictly my own). When a
>customer has been wronged, or has the perception of being wronged, it
>takes amazingly little to rectify the situation. Sometimes, just
>saying "We screwed up, thanks for bringing it to our attention" is
>enough. Sometimes you have to offer some form of compensation, and
>sometimes you just can't do a damn thing to satisfy the customer. But
>the point is, you have to at least try. You'd be amazed that
>sometimes a *totally* peeved-off customer can actually end up being
>your most loyal patron and greatest source of new customers.
>
>Customers aren't always right, but they are always the customer. And,
>as Richard pointed out, it costs a lot less to keep a customer than it
>does to attract a new one.
>
>"Richard Rynar" <fro...@nospam.mindspring.com> wrote:
>
Richard Rynar
You are absolutely correct. The admission of the lies told to my TA and
accepting responsibility for the liars actions, plus admitting that they
made a horrendous mistake by using Tower would have assuaged much of my
displeasure. I would have liked to receive the compensation that I feel that
I am entitled to, however the admissions and an apology would probably have
me give Celebrity one more opportunity to make me a regular client.
Richard
Anony-mouse
I hope that I never sit at dining tables with passengers like this.....I'm
amazed the cruise lines are as responsive as they are in the face of petty
demands like this. Keep in mind that the Maitre d' may be passing the buck
to the inventory when in fact he decided who got what dining.....open your
eyes for once.
Bob Lee wrote in message <35246a91...@news.pacbell.net>...
Doug McDonald
Richard Rynar wrote:
>
> I don't think anyone has an absolutely perfect vacation.
Of course they have. I certainly have.
Doug McDonald
Richard Rynar
If my posts concerning this cruise causes you such discomfort and
consternation why have you responded three times to them. Why don't you use
you news group filter to block my posts from reaching you? Is it because you
are a masochist, or just because your not intelligent enough to figure out
how to use one? Have a nice (( :-) weekend.
Richard
Anony-mouse wrote in message <6g3da2$bpu$1...@news1.teleport.com>...
Carol,Sy & Heidi Miller
To Arlene,
Until it happens to you you should not be so judgemental. We had the
same experience. When we got home from the worst cruise we ever took we
went straight to the travel agency and vented our anger. They gave us a
3 category upgrade, 40% off our next cruise and the promise of seating
us on the plane the way we were supposed to be on this trip. It wasn't
much but it was something. When 6 people go on a crise that costs them
$7,000 you would at least like to
1) sit with your children and grandchildren in the same dining room at
the same time
2) sit on the plane with the rest of your family on a FIVE HOUR FLIGHT
3) be with your family on the same flight coming home -- especially when
the youngest was a two-year-old
People spend all that money to be with their friends and family and have
a wonderful vacation. When do the cruise lines and the travel agents
own up to their responsibilities to insure the PAYING CLIENT a good
vacation. I'm sure that if you pulled this on your job you'd be fired.
So don't judge these people so quickly. When it happens to you, you'll
want some kind of compensation too. Its human nature to feel cheated
when you spend thousands of dollars and have a miserable time for
it!!!!!
Carol Miller
Aaron Farr
Ken Stutt
Richard,
You are too much. You post all this stuff, yet when I reply to you my
mail gets returned.
Please let us know which cruise line & cruise you are going to try
next - some of us would probably not want to be on that cruise.
And then you get nasty with people who don't see it your way.
Ken (have heard enough about Richard's problem)
Ken Stutt
Hi,
I have posted the Grand Princess shore excursions at my "Cruising is
Fun" site:
http://www.stutt.com/cif/fun.html (new address)
Or you can go directly there:
http://www.stutt.com/cif/tour_pri_grmed.htm
Ken Stutt
Now Available: "The Wheelhouse" - my cruising newsletter. To
subscribe please send me an e-mail. No charge. I would like to have
your full name.
Anony-mouse
I would not consider a filter, simply because 99% of the discussion and
participants on here are reasonable people. I appreciate the banter amongst
the TAs. I appreciate the cruise reviews from fans. I even appreciate
thoughtful criticism. Seeing potential cruises from the eyes of those with
experience often brightens my day. This kind of thread, however, does not.
What I don't understand is simple self-centeredness and lack or realism
portrayed in the complaints. I doubt there was much sympathy for the
letter sent, but to each his/her own. I wish I could have seen the reaction
of Celebrity when they read this. I will go back to lurking now..but use
some common sense.
Ken Stutt wrote in message <6g3tfk$9...@sjx-ixn7.ix.netcom.com>...
Anony-mouse
NancyS1272
>So we have a situation where
>the on board personal admitted that we were lied to, and the "Home Office"
>refuses to admit that a lie had occurred
>They selected Tower and should be
>held accountable for the actions of their subcontractor.
OK, let me get this straight, they lied to you and didn't get the seating you
wanted for 2 nights and your flight home was a couple of hours late. Exactly
how much monetary compensation do you think you're entitled to? I'd like to
know so that I could ask every major air carrier for compensation. There is not
one that I have been on that has not been overbooked at one time or another
.
>the
>restaurant manager confirmed that this same situation had occurred in the
>past where the Director of Inventory had lied
So now we are playing whisper down the lane. You are so sure the restaurant
manager isn't lieing...why? I hate to say this, but I believe your TA (no
matter how good you believe he/she is) dropped the ball. They should have known
your flights 30 days prior to your trip and noone is ever guaranteed a seating,
but being such a seasoned traveller, you must have known that. What did your
cruise docs say, early or late seating???????
George in NY
> I would have liked to receive the compensation that I feel that
>I am entitled to, however the admissions and an apology would probably have
>me give Celebrity one more opportunity to make me a regular client.
Richard, I submit that it is highly unlikely that you would have been
happy with anything other than " the compensation that I feel that I
am entitled to ". Most people that feel " entitled " will not be
satisfied with an oops, sorry, note.
After dealing with all these issues for how long now, mailing,
newsgroups, etc, have you totally turned your memories of your
vacation into simply an unhappy consumer action? That would be a
shame.
Cruise lines are not in the airline business. They would rather not
have anything to do with the airlines but recognized many years ago
that offering a air/sea package of convenience was necessary for
business. Now if cruise lines are not doing the job to your
satisfaction book your own air. You will be happy, the cruise line
will be happy, it will just be a perfect, happy/happy world.
robert browne
Hi Lee'
I really do not understand why any cruise line, let alone one of
Celebrity's reputation ,would use Tower Air when there are so many other
more reliable carriers from which to choose. Tower has an abominable
reputation. It is famous for lateness, overselling beyond the bounds of
reason, cancellations and little, if any, passenger service.
Bob
Lee Lindquist wrote:
> On Sat, 04 Apr 1998 11:20:27 GMT, geor...@prodigy.net (George in NY)
> wrote:
>
> >Cruise lines are not in the airline business. They would rather not
> >have anything to do with the airlines but recognized many years ago
> >that offering a air/sea package of convenience was necessary for
> >business. Now if cruise lines are not doing the job to your
> >satisfaction book your own air. You will be happy, the cruise
>
> Why are those the only options? The cruise lines could certainly
> offer 'good' air itineraries. Several of the high end cruise line
> book you in first, so it's certainly possible.
>
> The cruise lines use rather circular logic to justify this, just as
> they did in Richard's letter. They claim that the air carriers
> only assign the air 30 days before travel, and they (the
> cruise lines) are forced to take what the air carriers give
> them.
>
> This is, of course, crap. The cruise lines negotiated the
> contracts with the air carriers and are responsible for the
> results -- not the air carrier.
>
> But, what incentive do the cruise lines have to change? If they
> did, they'd lose the air-deviation revenue.
>
> - Lee
>
> lindquist 'at' ibm 'decimal-point' net
Thomas Gauldin
George in NY wrote in message <352815df...@news.prodigy.net>...
>
>Cruise lines are not in the airline business. They would rather not
>have anything to do with the airlines but recognized many years ago
>that offering a air/sea package of convenience was necessary for
>business.
George, I had the deck behind our home redone over the past week. I
contracted with a deck restoration company to have it pressure washed,
bleached, some minor repairs made and then stained. The contractor was
essentially a painting contractor, who subcontracted for the pressure
washing and repairs.
The fellow arrived and pressure washed the deck. He was an independent
contractor who did pressure washing for his own customers AND pressure
washing for the contractor. The carpenter was also an independent
contractor, who had both his own business and did subcontracting for the
painting contractor.
My reason for bringing this up is its analogy to the cruise line industry,
Frankly, I only wrote ONE check- and that was to the painting contractor.
In turn, he paid the carpenter and pressure washing fellow. When we cruise,
we write ONE check- and that is to the cruise line. In turn, they pay the
airline they choose and they pay the transfer companies between the airport
and dock.
Should anything have gone wrong with my deck restoration, I would look to
the painting contractor to redress my grievances. If something goes wrong
on a cruise, (say the transfer company has inadequate equipment or fails to
show up) then I consider it to be a problem with the CRUISE LINE and not the
transfer company or airline.
Sure, things go wrong. The cruise line is the one who makes the choice of
subcontractors, so IT should also bear the responsibility if something goes
wrong downstream.
Tom
Fred Lanyard
noj...@mail.please (Lee Lindquist) wrote:
>This is, of course, crap. The cruise lines negotiated the
>contracts with the air carriers and are responsible for the
>results -- not the air carrier.
Hi Lee,
Never having been present at any airline negotiations nor at contract
talks, I would like to venture a guess as to how these go down. The
cruise lines are looking for low rates so they can offer competitive
prices and still make a few dollars as well as pay commissions. In
return for this (and keep in mind the relative numbers of pax they are
promising the airlines) they might not have the clout we all would
like to think they have.
It is my feeling that this is definitely the weakest link in the whole
cruise package and one that should be addressed because poor air
connections can almost ruin a cruise. But at present, the lines are
at the mercy of the airlines and probably are not happy with the
results they are getting either. The use of non-major airlines by a
five star line is probably stretching the bounds of "exceeding
expectations".
Regards,
Fred Lanyard
CRUISE VALUE CENTER
(800)231-SHIP Residence:(732)636-0938
George Leppla
Hi Bob,
You have hit on the crux of the problem:
There are NOT enough seats available into FLL and MIA on any given Saturday
or Sunday to get the thousands of cruise passengers into the ports in the
short time frame available.
During busy times of the year like February and March, the airlines reduce
the number of seats that they are willing to sell to the cruise lines
because they know that they will be able to sell them at a higher price than
the rate they contracted for.
The supply of air seats just has not keep up with the demand, forcing cruise
companies to:
1) use whatever carriers they can find
2) use some "creative itineraries"
3) raise air add-on prices in the hopes that people will do their own air
Lee wrote:
>> This is, of course, crap. The cruise lines negotiated the
>> contracts with the air carriers and are responsible for the
>> results -- not the air carrier.
Lee, I am not privy to the actual wording of the contracts, but I believe
there is a clause that allows the airline to reduce the number of seats they
allow the cruise lines if their regular retail sales are above a certain
point. In other words, they'll give the cruise lines seats if they haven't
already sold them for more money. This is why the cruise lines do not know
until 30 days before departure how many seats they will actually have. Have
the cruise lines accepted unacceptable conditions in these contracts?
Perhaps. I do know that on many cruises sold within 30 days of departure
many cruise lines will tell you that air is not available due to lack of
availability.
As long as the number of cruise passengers increases at a rate greater than
the available airlift, these problems will be with us.
George Leppla, MCC
http://www.cruisemaster.com
rec.travel.cruises Information Center
http://www.chesco.com/~hbtravel/rtcinfo.htm
robert browne wrote in message <6g5k16$4...@bgtnsc02.worldnet.att.net>...
>Hi Lee'
>I really do not understand why any cruise line, let alone one of
>Celebrity's reputation ,would use Tower Air when there are so many other
>more reliable carriers from which to choose. Tower has an abominable
>reputation. It is famous for lateness, overselling beyond the bounds of
>reason, cancellations and little, if any, passenger service.
>Bob
>
>Lee Lindquist wrote:
>
>> On Sat, 04 Apr 1998 11:20:27 GMT, geor...@prodigy.net (George in NY)
>> wrote:
>>
>> >Cruise lines are not in the airline business. They would rather not
>> >have anything to do with the airlines but recognized many years ago
>> >that offering a air/sea package of convenience was necessary for
>> >business. Now if cruise lines are not doing the job to your
>> >satisfaction book your own air. You will be happy, the cruise
>>
>> Why are those the only options? The cruise lines could certainly
>> offer 'good' air itineraries. Several of the high end cruise line
>> book you in first, so it's certainly possible.
>>
>> The cruise lines use rather circular logic to justify this, just as
>> they did in Richard's letter. They claim that the air carriers
>> only assign the air 30 days before travel, and they (the
>> cruise lines) are forced to take what the air carriers give
>> them.
>>
>> This is, of course, crap. The cruise lines negotiated the
>> contracts with the air carriers and are responsible for the
>> results -- not the air carrier.
>>
Dave and Sue Whitfield
Wow it is sure getting heated in here, but wanted to add my 2 cents..
When a agent books a cruise you should know that there are things that are
BEYOND the Agents control, #1 If you do NOT deviate your air, or get it on
your own, as stated in the brochure. Carnivals Brochure states: That they
may require a stop, or a change of planes, may be a jet or a commuter, may
require a overnight stay,After Airline tickets have been received Guests she
reconfirm their flights. Allot of things are spelled out right in the
Brochure but many tend to not read it, nor pay attention to it, thinking
nothing like that can happen to me.
As for sitting on the plane with your family, Air carriers assign seats to
many passengers and it is like a first come first serve thing, This is NOT
the Agents Fault! I try to keep calling a airline to see if there is a
cancellation to change seats to get a family together but it is not always
possible. There were 13 people on our last vacation, I am agent and I could
not even sit with my daughter! Planes are always overbooked because they
know the percentage of NO Shows, so when I called for seats for us they did
not even show 13 seats available and here I have in my hand 13 Airtickets!
how could that be??? Well cause of overbooking, and yes when we got there we
all did get seats, they were not altogether but we all got there ( and
back!) This is not the Cruiselines fault either, it is just some of the
Bumps in travel, Especially during a busy season, I do not have this happen
very often at all, but it does happen.
Now not sitting together in the dining room ? I NEVER had that happen! I fax
right away to the dining room table seatings, but to me this had to be a
error! Did you go to the Matre Di? Something Tells me you did and nothing
could be resolved. That is definitely ashame! I do know that Carnival for
instance, takes Requests but does not guarantee anything for dinner.
As for the agents insuring you a great vacation, We certainly Want and Hope
and Try to have you experience the best in vacations, but I do not think
that any TA on this NG would say they would EVER guarantee someone a good
vacation, and many things are certainly out of a Travel Agents hand, we try
to rectify things when they come up, but like you we are also only human,
and we make mistakes. But it seems like Travel Agents get the Brunt to every
bad vacation! I am glad I am in good with the Mother Nature cause I
"GUARANTEE" <G> all my clients that they will have weather!!! And that
Airplane that was cancelled, Gee I know it was me that put that chewing gum
on the runway! And that transportation strike, yep that was all the TA's
fault too.... I guess we tend to get tough shoulders! I always state that
I work for the CLIENT not the Wholesaler and it is my job to try and cross
all the T's and Dot all the is, to insure a well planned vacation. Sometimes
the Client though has to take some responsibility, as do TA's, Cruise Lines,
Airlines, etc..... Believe me, I am sure there is not a TA out there that
does want their client to have a lousy time! ( Well maybe I should retract
that!<G>)
Hope that your next vacation for the family was better and that you hugged
your TA!! Just my opinions Gang!
Sue
Carol,Sy & Heidi Miller wrote in message
<6g3o4s$5mv$1...@newsd-131.iap.bryant.webtv.net>...
Richard Rynar
Ken Stutt wrote in message <6g3tfk$9...@sjx-ixn7.ix.netcom.com>...
>Richard,
>
>You are too much. You post all this stuff, yet when I reply to you my
>mail gets returned.
If you want to reply just remove no spam from the header to get my email
address. It's that simple.
>
>Please let us know which cruise line & cruise you are going to try
>next - some of us would probably not want to be on that cruise.
And from some of the responses I received the feeling is mutual. In addition
rest assured that you won't have to deal with me as a client, " I'm to
demanding for you "
robert browne
FYI, He is not a travel agent. Just a very experienced cruise lover.
robert browne
George in NY
>George, I had the deck behind our home redone over the past week. I
>contracted with a deck restoration company to have it pressure washed,
>bleached, some minor repairs made and then stained. The contractor was
>essentially a painting contractor, who subcontracted for the pressure
>washing and repairs.
-snipped-
Thomas, I in part agree with you. I generally book an air/sea package
even when doing my own flight might prove less expensive by a few
dollars. The reason is indeed that I have some expectation that the
line will have some clout and responsibility for the flights they
contracted and will therefore attempt to get me there in time for the
ship sailing. Now I figure that if I am on a plane with 30 other
cruise passengers and we are late the cruise line will one, know that,
two consider holding the ship sailing until I get there. Something
they are not going to do if only poor little George is going to be
late.
Now your cobtractor is probably going to try to hire the best
subcontractor at a best price and he will hopefull do a good job for
you. Now if I am a painter and you need a deck repaired I may agree to
get you a sub contractor to fix the thing because that is what you
want and I want your business. I will try to get the best and hope
that all comes out well, however, I'm a painter. I would be happier
that you had the deck fixed and then called me to paint I would think.
Of course this is not how it usually works simply becuase people want
the easiest methodology especially when dealing with issues they have
no real experience in.
So until you sue and all the appeals and case law are in, maybe the
subcontractor is responsible, maybe the contractor is, maybe both,
maybe neither, maybe the guy that made the paint, etc.
I do know the cruiseline would rather sell me a cruise and have me
show up on the proper day of sailing with my ticket and them having no
care or concern how I got there. The air they do because they have to,
it's what we demand. If an individual can do it better in todays state
of the airline business they proably say God Bless You!
George in NY
On Sat, 04 Apr 1998 15:01:36 GMT, noj...@mail.please (Lee Lindquist)
wrote:
>Why are those the only options? The cruise lines could certainly
>offer 'good' air itineraries. Several of the high end cruise line
>book you in first, so it's certainly possible.
>
>The cruise lines use rather circular logic to justify this, just as
>they did in Richard's letter. They claim that the air carriers
>only assign the air 30 days before travel, and they (the
>cruise lines) are forced to take what the air carriers give
>them.
Sad but true, they are at the airlines mercy for the simple reasoning
that there are more passengers than seats for the cruise transport
times.
>This is, of course, crap. The cruise lines negotiated the
>contracts with the air carriers and are responsible for the
>results -- not the air carrier.
Not really if you read the fine print, but who does right? The cruise
lines negotiated what they hope is a best deal they could get that
provides a reasonable price and a reasonable expectation of getting
you there. Why do they use every mutt airline, simply because they
need the seats.
>But, what incentive do the cruise lines have to change? If they
>did, they'd lose the air-deviation revenue.
I don't know how many lines are doing it now but I know Carnival
offered a much better price for CRUISE only versus Cruise with air.
The attempt was to entice people to do their own air. Cruiseline
started offering air/sea packages simply because that was what made it
easier for clients who simply wanted to purchase one ticket for one
price. Getting you to the ship is simply a cost of doing business, not
a profit center for the cruise line. That's what the booze, bing, and
casino are for ;)
Have you tried to book air for a Saturday cruise lately? Have fun.
George in NY
>Hi Lee'
>I really do not understand why any cruise line, let alone one of
>Celebrity's reputation ,would use Tower Air when there are so many other
>more reliable carriers from which to choose. Tower has an abominable
>reputation. It is famous for lateness, overselling beyond the bounds of
>reason, cancellations and little, if any, passenger service.
>Bob
They simply needed the seats that Tower claimed to be able to provide.
Aaron Farr
On my last cruise, the air was actually cheaper with Carnival than on my
own. I thought $279 including transfers to Miami was a lot until I tried to
call and get a better price. Continental had no return flight scheduled
from Miami, only Ft. Lauderdale 30mins. away, and the price was $303 without
transfers, or I think tax. In this case the Cruise line's price easily beat
separate air. gotta check it both ways.
aaron
George in NY wrote in message <352c8525...@news.prodigy.net>...
Jjo33
I find it very hard to believe that an Employee is going to state that another
Employee lied. Furthermore I have not been on a flight in the last 3 years
that left on time. I Just returned for a cruise on the Jubilee that left port
1:50 late. Never mind the fact that it was the best cruise yet, good food,
great service, and a great table that laughed all week. Now that I think about
it I don't remember the waiter bringing that 3rd appetizer I ordered on
Wednesday. Guess I will have to factor that in my letter to Carnival asking for
compensation.
john