Marine grade wood again
Trace
isn't marine grade but the reason that l bring this up is l just got System
Three Resins trial kit in the mail (more about that later) and this is
what they have to say about this subject
It is not necessary to use marine grade plywood in boatbuilding
marine plywood is basically exterior plywood with a lower void content
several years ago the plywood association that sets standards started
degrading marine plywood
by allowing a higher void content
we believe thet higher cost over AB exterior is not justified today
anyone care to comment on they're statment?
The trial kit that l got from them seems like a good deal if you want to
try out there stuff,for ten bucks you get a easy to read description of how
to use there epoxy products and how the chemistry works ect some good
reading
you also get all the stuff to do a small project ,l don't think they are
making much profit on this kit it is that compleat
you get epoxy,all the different fillers like micro balloons ect measuring
cups paint brushes a foam roller,fiberglass cloth, gloves and it is
delivered to your door.
now l just have to try it out one of there days
they have a web page but l am not sure what it is right now sorry
Trace
Tom and Michelle Harvanek
Trace wrote in message <01be1ee9$11838dc0$LocalHost@default>...
Trace
l think the stringers are ok but l will find out when l pull it all appart
but the floor is fairly soft
in places
l am also going to re do most of the interior since the upolstery needs to
be re done then l am
going to make it a little more user friendly from the ldeas l got cheching
out the new boats at the different dealers in town,right now there is not
nearly enought storage space for anything more than a couple of ski's and a
few life jackets
for the seats l thing l could use exterior grade plywood but fiberglass it
unlike the factory that just gave it a quick coat of paint but for the
floor l thing l should use the marine stuff
Trace
Tom and Michelle Harvanek <DIXI...@prodigy.net> wrote in article
<748hgv$ijb4$1...@newssvr04-int.news.prodigy.com>...
Tom and Michelle Harvanek
No, I don't believe Marine plywood is necessary for floors or seats; I
doubt manufacturers use it for that application either. I pulled cheap 5-ply
plywood floors out of my ski supreme and chose to replaced it with the best
7-ply fir I could find and prepped it well. I used Polyester resin for the
project, and have no experience with the epoxy products you described.
Well I have been in your situation, but beware I am not an expert, so I
encourage correction from RSW, but I am still happy with the results of
repairing my ski supreme myself, excuse me with the help of wife and
friend.. so here goes...I'll try to avoid the obvious stuff.
Looks like we are starting off even... I bought my boat cheap with the
intention of splitting the hull/deck to replace the floors correctly...The
previous owner did a partial - one side floor job, other panels were soft
and saggy, he did not glass it in and re-used the old carpet, a basic hack.
The design of the ski supreme necessitated deck removal. I did not see any
stringer rot when I checked it out before buying.
Disassembly is the more disheartening job, because your mind spins when you
see stringer rot you didn't see before, don't let it get to you.
600 or so rivets need to be drilled out of the rub rail and behind it, use
minimal drill size (likely 3/16) so you don't oversize the holes, break the
silicon with a utility knife.
After removing the windshield (its heavy and its removal eased deck
removal) get at least five others together to lift the deck off, it is
surprising how fragile it is... so be careful and coordinate the lift, you
don't kneed one he-man to lift more than the others (I think the women were
more careful)
On the ground, support the bow with something in case some nitwit goes to
sit on it, we found the motor box to be the right height..
Now this I couldn't foresee but...everyone who comes over wants to see how
heavy the deck is. Without asking they go over and lift the stern of the
deck, and don't know basic static's or don't see the motor cover under the
bow, and create a 19' lever and try to break the bow off your deck
with cracking noises that make you cringe. Then they say 'whoops, I wanted
to see how heavy it was.' So make a sign!
What was left of my floors were glassed in and I wanted to preserve them for
templates, so I cut the glass with a pneumatic cut-off wheel,
(s-glasses, gloves and dust mask) with my garden hose spraying lightly on
the wheel as I went, this made a white slurry with almost no dust.
I then found out my port stringer was rotten from behind the pylon to the
bow, but the rest was solid. We opted to cut it out with a wedge undercut
into the good wood, create a perfect fitting section of stringer, lag
together vertically, glass in and then reinforce by through bolting a 5" x
1/4" x 6' length of aluminum for insurance through the motor mounts, pylon
bracket, and new stringer section.
If you do stringer removal, don't cut the stringer out flush with the hull
bottom. I only cut the open the glass surrounding the stringer 1/2 to 2/3
up, removed the glass 'cap' and removed the wood. This gave me lots of area
to overlap glass over existing stringer wraps, and maximize glass-glass
contact. If you cut flush with the hull bottom, the glass in the bottom of
the bilge gets saturated with oils and it likely won't bond well enough.
Degrease with acetone and rough up the surface before glassing. Get lots of
bar clamps to help bond the old stringer glass to the new wood so the glass
doesn't spread. Now the first wraps of new glass are nice and tight against
the stringer and won't air bubble.
If your mufflers are on the outside of the stringers, now is the time to use
all new hose and hardware, I tried to be frugal, reuse hose and elbows had
an annoying leak the first season and was difficult to repair; its dry now
but I could have saved a lot of time.
My original floors had one coat of glass on the top, but it was clear that
it never bonded well. After pricing marine plywood ($80 sheet, its only
necessary for prolonged submerging) I chose 7-ply 3/4 fir at $35
sheet. After cutting and test fitting, I used polyester resin diluted
with acetone so it saturated deep into the wood before setting up, both
sides. then second coated with normal mix. This created good water
repellency for intermittent soakings.`
I carefully set the new floor height to the original level and created the
pieces that had no original left to template. Floors were screwed with SS or
galvanized deck screws to the stingers to keep them fixed during glassing.
My floors needed to be glassed to the sides of the hull, but beware the hull
opens up in the sun with no deck on it, so carefully measure the ID of the
deck, and use string in the rivet holes to pull the hull sides together as
the floors set up. Set the hull to 1/2" larger than ID of the deck. Also do
this once when test fitting the new floors.
Carpet is laid over 1/4" troweled laytex marine carpet adhesive. I found M &
E Marine to have a perfect 6' by 18' piece for $100, nice weave and color
choices.
Get another 5 friends to help you put the deck back on.
I used about 300 16p nails to get all rivet holes to align before starting
riveting. Then removed a nail for every rivet installed. This distributed
the stress pulling the hull/deck back together over lots of area,
eliminating stress cracks ( and your stress) during assembly. Use
Aluminum/Aluminum (rivet/shank) rivets only.
It took us four weeks of disassembly, cleaning, parts procurement and head
scratching, then only two weeks of assembly. We were blessed with good
weather during glassing ( hot and dry), and cost me $500 to fix a boat that
I got for 5200, and now very happy with it, It wasn't a bad project and
would do another if I had to, it was fun.
Let me know how it goes..
Tom <Gyro Gearloose>
DSmith3426
>necessary for prolonged submerging) I chose 7-ply 3/4 fir at $35
Mmm,
Tom I have under gone a simular restoration in my 85 Ski Supreme. My rot was
not as extensive as yours. I chose to use marine ply(I only paid $79.86
including tax). I did this for a few reasons. There are extensive listings in
a boat building NG (news group) that tend to lead toward using marine vs
treated or other ply. I also looked at the time vs money factor. I will prob
have invested 50+ hours on the project, the extra $ for the marine ply in
nothing compared to my time. And I would prefer to tell the next owner I used
the best materials available. BTW I'm now looking for an alternate to marine
carpet. I have always been confused why tournament boats use carpet. Most
non-tour boats in Fl don't use carpet for floors.
Tom and Michelle Harvanek
I was looking forward to hearing other's experiences
I did this project a year before I knew about RSW, could have helped.
Yes I was trying to be somewhat frugal (hence my exhaust mistake), wasn't
yet convinced I could pull it off because I just discovered the stringer rot
the day before, and the biggest lumber yards around had to order the marine
wood, I needed to proceed fast because my friend who was helping me was
going back out on the USCG Spencer soon, and I just had to make the call,
So I got the best 7-ply fir there, short of the furniture grade.
Nothing wrong with you using the best stuff, you stated very valid reasons
for using it. I might have got marine also if it was available quickly and
I guess only time will tell, the way I sealed it and the way we care for the
boat, I suspect I will have to wait a long while. I guess we both agree the
cheap CDX we found in the boats was not the way to do it again..
Perhaps the wood choice is also dependent upon one's location. In the North
East the season is short and only one month of humid weather. I guess If I
was in FL, it would have been a no-brainer to get the best one could.
I wrench my neighbor's '71 Century 340 v-drive, a 18' 340 Chrysler (he's 71
so I help him out) and that still has original, solid floors. (talk about a
nice wake board boat, he's never opened it up)
My boat was obviously severely neglected.
Do you recall the details of the differences in the Marine Plywood?
Speaking of no carpet, anyone know what happened to the limited edition Ski
Nautiques that had a 'resorter' look, Forest green and Mahogany, made for an
anniversary or something, anyone ever get close to one? I only saw the
newsletter, they looked great..
When my floors just had the resin coating, they actually looked pretty nice.
The carpet does deaden noise well, though.
Tom <Gyro Gearloose>
DSmith3426 wrote in message
<19981205215737...@ng-fa2.aol.com>...
>>After pricing marine plywood ($80 sheet, its only
>>necessary for prolonged submerging) I chose 7-ply 3/4 fir at $35
>
Dennis Manvell
its ok to use standard exterior ply wood?
How can I get some of that sys III resin?
H2ojunky
EFW5414
Yeah , me too.
DSmith3426
the materials are nothing compared to the time you will spend replacing floors.
Would'nt you feel better telling the next owner you used the best materials on
the resturation?
Bob Scibienski
glues. But the differences can be significant depending on your needs. The
possibility of future rot should always be taken into account. The fewer the
voids and the greater the number of plys and quality of the glue lines, the less
the chance of rot fungus "hopping" from one ply to the next ( the fungus can't
eat through the glue). The wood species itself can also play a role. Another
issue is epoxy vs. polyester resin. Based on what reading I have done, the
concensus seems to be that polyester does not adhere well to wood and hence
should not be relied upon as an adhesive when attaching wood to anything else.
Also, the Guegeon Bros. have published extensive studies on wood epoxy
composites and epoxy encapsulated wood which support the marine durability of
this combination. If similar studies have been done for polyester and wood I
have not seen them referred to.
Good luck
Bob S.
Trace" <goer...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>l hate to flog a dead horse about marine grade plywood vs plywood that
>isn't marine grade but the reason that l bring this up is l just got System
>Three Resins trial kit in the mail (more about that later) and this is
>what they have to say about this subject
> It is not necessary to use marine grade plywood in boatbuilding
>marine plywood is basically exterior plywood with a lower void content
>several years ago the plywood association that sets standards started
>degrading marine plywood
>by allowing a higher void content
>we believe thet higher cost over AB exterior is not justified today
>anyone care to comment on they're statment?