Two awesome new unicycle T-shirts
Darren
Unicycists !
Here are two new unicycle T-shirts ready to order.
Both shirts were originally hand drawn by a local comic book artist. I
have been looking for a long time for someone who could put on paper
ideas that have been in my head. It finally happened. This guy is
awesome.
These are the first of many more to come !
The next ones will be coming in the spring.
Both shirts are pre-shrunk Gildan Heavyweight Ultra Cotton.
The first is a girl on a trials unicycle.
Very foxy !
This shirt colour is light grey.
The second is world famous unicyclist, Jack Hughes
You don't know Jack !
Many words describe Jack...
Zanny, daredevil, crazy, awesome, trials rider, Rock band member, knife
spinner, mountain unicyclist, freak show, man of many talents, fun guy,
ladies man, wears a toque, one cool guy !
Best know for...
When I say Ham, you say Sandwich !
Ham... Sandwich... Chinese... Take out
BAM !!! Oh shit!
That was Jack working the croud waiting for the races to start at the
2003 National Unicycle Convention and Championships.
This shirt is light green.
Shirts are available in Adult S-M-L-XL
Price is 20.00 CDN or 15.00 US each
5.00 CDN or US per order (not shirt) shipped anywhere in North America
They will be available at the TOque games or can be ordered by sending a
cheque/check or money order to:
Darren Bedford
71 Jasper Avenue
Toronto ON
M6N 2N2
They look better than the pictures.
Get them both and start your collection today !!!
Here's the link, look under T-shirts:
http://community.webshots.com/user/uni_penguin/
Let me know what you think of them. Thanks !
Cheers,
Darren
For more info, send a e-mail to:
dar...@bedfordunicycles.ca or call
416-729-9696
--
Darren - Bedford Unicycles
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View this thread: http://www.unicyclist.com/thread/30820
bugman
I would have to say I don't really know Jack. i would say he is more of
an aquatence.
The other shirt.... now that is what I would call uni porn. I have a
feeling that shirt may not make it through the first load of laundry my
wife does!
--
bugman - Equilibrium Challenged
"A hard core muni or trials unicycle is no longer a $2500 custom job,
now it's a $500 stock item. That is incredible. You should be thanking
unicycle.com cause they have done more for the sport than any retailer
or distributor ever has." john_childs
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xtremeskier_
DUDE! that shirt with the chic on it is tight! ima have to get that one.
Awesome shirts dude! Good Jeorb:D
--
xtremeskier_ - Logan Altier
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Rayden
Hawtness. If I wore shirts with half naked ladies on them I would buy
one.
--
Rayden
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Ethel_The_Tree
bugman wrote:
> *The other shirt....I have a feeling that shirt may not make it
> through the first load of laundry my wife does! *
Why, does your wife have something against barefoot wheel-walking? ;)
I don't see anything wrong with stylizing a uni-gal, although equal time
would be nice to see too Darren. Maybe your next one can be a
uni-boy-toy with abs modeled on the KH 6-pack.
All I can say is this old tree wishes she had limbs like that chica...
--
Ethel_The_Tree - Shoulder of Fortune
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Ethel_The_Tree's Profile: http://www.unicyclist.com/profile/5419
GILD
Ethel_The_Tree wrote:
> *Why, does your wife have something against barefoot wheel-walking? ;)
>
> All I can say is this old tree wishes she had limbs like that chica *
bet she can't cook...[image:
http://www.addis-welt.de/smilie/smilie/essen/cookout.gif]
--
GILD - Waffle-tosser (ocfopgm)
'They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
safety
deserve neither liberty nor safety.
-- Benjamin Franklin, HistoricalReview of Pennsylvania, 1759
' (http://www.soaw.org/new/newswire_detail.php?id=413)'[image:
http://www.addis-welt.de/smilie/smilie/sp/84255.gif]'
(http://tinyurl.com/ywxgb)'what's this?'
(http://www.outwar.com/page.php?x=2055415)
Namaste!
Dave
------------------------------------------------------------------------
GILD's Profile: http://www.unicyclist.com/profile/657
U-Turn
GILD wrote:
> *
>
> bet she can't cook...[image:
Seems to me she really cooks. :cool:
--
U-Turn - There has got to be a better way...
Weep in the dojo... laugh on the battlefield.
'29er Tire Study' (http://u-turn.unicyclist.com/29erTireStudy/)
'Strongest Coker Wheel in the World'
(http://www.unicyclist.com/gallery/albup39)
'New York Unicycle Club' (http://www.newyorkunicycle.com)
-- Dave Stockton
------------------------------------------------------------------------
U-Turn's Profile: http://www.unicyclist.com/profile/691
xtremeskier_
Check is in the mail! Cant wait to get my shirt:D Thanks for the kick
ass designs Darren! I look forward to see what else you come up with.
-Logan
muniracer
so tell me about jack...
--
muniracer - Hell On Wheel
The Hell on Wheel Unicycle Gang owns you!!
www.hellonwheel.cjb.net
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muniracer's Profile: http://www.unicyclist.com/profile/4339
paco
muniracer wrote:
> *a) the shirt does not intentionally perpetuate sexism. the girl is
> not "real"*
What do you mean by this one? The girl is not real, but neither are the
girls you see in Playboy, Vogue, or in any American movie (with the
exception of a very small percentage, like My Big Fat Greek Wedding.)
That still perpetuates sexism. It invites the male gaze, and
objectifies the woman. She is not human, she is a unicycle ornament.
It doesn't matter if it's a photograph or a drawing; either way, the
message is the same. Of course she isn't real. No one lets women be
real, and I would hate to see this mentality enter into the Unicycling
consciousness.
I don't know how you could call yourself a hardcore pro-feminist and
approve of such trash.
I'm sorry if I offended anyone but I don't apologize; I have seen too
much damage done in this world because of the propagation of this
objectification mentality.
(I know I am going to get backlash for my views. All I can say is,
bring it on...)
--
paco - Co-Founder of the PacoGild Movement
I'm having trouble thinking cognitively.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
paco's Profile: http://www.unicyclist.com/profile/3715
john_childs
muniracer wrote:
> *so tell me about jack... *
He did the Seattle to Portland bike ride on a Coker.
'Jack Hughes riding the STP' (http://tinyurl.com/h9or)
Looks like Jack finally got his shirt (see the above linked thread).
--
john_childs - Guinness Mojo
john_childs (at) hotmail (dot) com
Gallery: '' (http://www.unicyclist.com/gallery/john_childs)
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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GILD
paco wrote:
> *(I know I am going to get backlash for my views. All I can say is,
> bring it on...) *
the one kewl thing about this forum is that u very seldom have someone
explode on your arse
different opinins are aired, discussed, vehemently opposed, but allways
respected
there may be a wave of dissenting opinions, but i doubt if there'll be
much of a 'lash'
the 'the-girl-isn't-real-so-it-isn't-as-bad-as-u-think' argument doesn't
fly
if i draw a racist cartoon, is that allright?
--
GILD - Waffle-tosser (ocfopgm)
'They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.-- Benjamin Franklin,
HistoricalReview of Pennsylvania, 1759
' (http://www.soaw.org/new/newswire_detail.php?id=413)'[image:
http://www.addis-welt.de/smilie/smilie/sp/84255.gif]'
(http://tinyurl.com/ywxgb)'what's this?'
(http://www.outwar.com/page.php?x=2055415)
Namaste!
Dave
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daino149
Personally, I think people should be allowed to wear what they want with
in a limit. This shirt falls well within that limit. In fact, I quite
like the shirt, but not enough to buy one.
I just find it interesting that this forum is largely male dominated,
and we are having this discussion. I would like to hear some of the
opinions of the ladies of RSU.
Daniel
--
daino149 - How's it going, Texas?
there ain't enough body armor in the country for me to try that. -- Ken
on the mtbr forum in reference to MUni
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xtremeskier_
paco wrote:
> *
>
> What do you mean by this one? The girl is not real, but neither are
> the girls you see in Playboy, Vogue, or in any American movie (with
> the exception of a very small percentage, like My Big Fat Greek
> [...] Of course she isn't real. No one lets women be real, and I
> would hate to see this mentality enter into the Unicycling
> consciousness.
Mmmkay, im a lil confused here. So you are saying that "real" women are
fat and ugly? "No one lets women be real" what are you talking about
dude? So if a women is healthy and takes good care of herself and stays
in good shape and looks good, then she is "fake"? Please explain
yourself in greater detail because from what it sounds like, you are the
sexist one...
--
xtremeskier_ - Logan Altier
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xtremeskier_'s Profile: http://www.unicyclist.com/profile/4291
GILD
Ethel_The_Tree wrote:
> *No one else will see the uni first....The universal slogan for the
> advertising industry isn't "Unis sell". *
true
if u do, however, notice the uni first, u know u're in the right sport
':)' (http://tinyurl.com/2s69l)
i just figured what really bugs me about the 'girl-on-trails(!)-uni'
pic
she's not wearing any protection
:p
--
GILD - Waffle-tosser (ocfopgm)
'They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.-- Benjamin Franklin,
HistoricalReview of Pennsylvania, 1759
' (http://www.soaw.org/new/newswire_detail.php?id=413)'[image:
http://www.addis-welt.de/smilie/smilie/sp/84255.gif]'
(http://tinyurl.com/ywxgb)'what's this?'
(http://www.outwar.com/page.php?x=2055415)
Namaste!
Dave
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GILD's Profile: http://www.unicyclist.com/profile/657
fontiminal
You serious about wearing those out in public? Both of them are
dreadful. One is sexist the other is stupid.
Don’t unicyclist get enough stick without the need to look more like
weirdo’s than they do already?
Those shirts assist in the weirdo affect. Another thing - If you saw the
uni before the girl, you need help.
Willing to take the flak it’s only an opinion.
JJ
--
fontiminal - Level 2 rider
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Jayne ZA
GILD wrote:
> *i just figured what really bugs me about the 'girl-on-trails(!)-uni'
> pic
>
> she's not wearing any protection
Dave, she's hardly wearing ANYTHING! How many times did you have to
force yourself to look at the picture before you noticed the lack of
helmet, knee, elbow and wrist protection?
Might I suggest that, if you are thinking of buying the T-shirt in
question, you try to barefoot wheel walk using just your perfectly
manicured toes while wearing a thong?
daino149 wrote:
> *I just find it interesting that this forum is largely male dominated,
> and we are having this discussion. I would like to hear some of the
> opinions of the ladies of RSU. *
Daniel , you asked for a female viewpoint, and here it is.
I have no problem whatsoever with attractive young women showing off
their bodies. If you've got it, why shouldn't you be allowed to flaunt
it.
I do, however, have a problem with the media forcing their idea of the
"ideal girl" down our throats. It goes from the gross ageism seen on TV
and in movies to the rampant use of the female body (usually airbrushed
to remove all imperfections) to sell just about anything. This reduces
women to objects instead of individuals whose value is related to their
appearance rather than to who they are inside. Far too many women
suffer from depression, eating disorders, low self esteem, because they
don't measure up to what society tells them is the "norm".
The proliferation of such stylised images just adds to the impact. It
makes them more acceptable, it makes them more accessible, and it makes
it easier for impressionable young people to be influenced into
believing that such stereotypes are what we should all aspire to.
Jayne
--
Jayne ZA - Learning to ride on a Coker
Being a statistician means never having to say you're certain
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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U-Turn
Personally I think it's just good fun. If Darren put out a similar
T-shirt with some "buff" guy on it with lots of muscles, then the
females could buy that one. By now in my life, for sure, it wouldn't
offend me any more than KH riding his uni with no shirt or shoes. Any
women to be attracted to me have to have more on their mind than just
appearance, so I'm kind of indifferent to these things.
--
U-Turn - Member of Generation XO
Weep in the dojo... laugh on the battlefield.
'29er Tire Study' (http://u-turn.unicyclist.com/29erTireStudy/)
'Strongest Coker Wheel in the World'
(http://www.unicyclist.com/gallery/albup39)
'New York Unicycle Club' (http://www.newyorkunicycle.com)
-- Dave Stockton
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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GILD
Jayne ZA wrote:
> *the lack of helmet, knee, elbow and wrist protection? *
i was thinking more in terms of a diaph...dont worry about it
;)
--
GILD - Waffle-tosser (ocfopgm)
'They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.-- Benjamin Franklin,
HistoricalReview of Pennsylvania, 1759
' (http://www.soaw.org/new/newswire_detail.php?id=413)'[image:
http://www.addis-welt.de/smilie/smilie/sp/84255.gif]'
(http://tinyurl.com/ywxgb)'what's this?'
(http://www.outwar.com/page.php?x=2055415)
Namaste!
Dave
------------------------------------------------------------------------
GILD's Profile: http://www.unicyclist.com/profile/657
Jayne ZA
U-Turn wrote:
> *If Darren put out a similar T-shirt with some "buff" guy on it with
> lots of muscles, then the females could buy that one. *
UM - you HAVE looked at the photos section, haven't you? An image like
that would be as unrelated to the reality of male unicyclists as "Foxy
girl" is to women in general.
Jayne
--
Jayne ZA - Learning to ride on a Coker
Being a statistician means never having to say you're certain
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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zod
It's a shirt people...... :D
--
zod - Icey Hot Stunta(z)
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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U-Turn
Jayne ZA wrote:
> *
>
> UM - you HAVE looked at the photos section, haven't you? An image
> like that would be as unrelated to the reality of male unicyclists as
> "Foxy girl" is to women in general.
>
I guess that's my point. :cool: There's nothing to get riled up about
-- it's just fun.
--
U-Turn - Member of Generation XO
Weep in the dojo... laugh on the battlefield.
'29er Tire Study' (http://u-turn.unicyclist.com/29erTireStudy/)
'Strongest Coker Wheel in the World'
(http://www.unicyclist.com/gallery/albup39)
'New York Unicycle Club' (http://www.newyorkunicycle.com)
-- Dave Stockton
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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GILD
U-Turn wrote:
> *it's just fun. *
just redraw the picture and put the
'Twin Towers' (http://tinyurl.com/2mytc) on the front of her T-shirt and
then sit back and watch this discussion take off
:rolleyes:
GILD going into hiding...
--
GILD - Waffle-tosser (ocfopgm)
'They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.-- Benjamin Franklin,
HistoricalReview of Pennsylvania, 1759
' (http://www.soaw.org/new/newswire_detail.php?id=413)'[image:
http://www.addis-welt.de/smilie/smilie/sp/84255.gif]'
(http://tinyurl.com/ywxgb)'what's this?'
(http://www.outwar.com/page.php?x=2055415)
Namaste!
Dave
------------------------------------------------------------------------
GILD's Profile: http://www.unicyclist.com/profile/657
Sofa
I saw the shirts at Darren's place, I like the girl one as well, but not
enough to wear it. I would like the rider in front of me to be wearing
one though :)
I really appreciate the style of artwork used, I'm just not (like the
previous poster) a sexy lady on a shirt type of guy. I also don't have
mud flaps with mirror ladies on them...I think Spyder does though.
This design would make for an ideal poster in your unicycle garage
though, without a doubt!
The stylistic drawing of the MUni by itself would make for a great
design, showing passers-by the non circus unicycle.
Oh, and thanks for the sig, Paco :)
--
Sofa - You Tu Tu Tuni?
'I'm sorry if I offended anyone but I don't apologize' - paco
'Unicycle Product Reviews'
(http://www.brianmackenzie.com/LUC/unicycleReviews.aspx) *82* reviews on
*54* products
'London Unicycling Club Website ' (http://www.brianmackenzie.com/LUC/)
version 3.02
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dazedNcontused
When I read the post I thought, cool - I can buy a Muni shirt for my
daughter (you see where this is going). I'll pass; I'd rather have her
wear a picture of a girl riding a unicycle than posed on one.
There's no problem with the girl being pretty - it's that there's
nothing else to her. She's a pin-up. I think the mudflaps are a pretty
good analogue.
Show me a T-shirt with the same girl - even wearing the same T-shirt -
but -riding- the uni and wearing shorts, helmet, pads, mud and a big
smile, and you've got something!
Tim
--
dazedNcontused - go play in the snow!
She was so impressed she didn't even roll her eyes. - Harper
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GILD
paco wrote:
> *(BTW, this is the backlash I was talking about.) *
no it isn't
:p
--
GILD - Waffle-tosser (ocfopgm)
'They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.-- Benjamin Franklin,
HistoricalReview of Pennsylvania, 1759
' (http://www.soaw.org/new/newswire_detail.php?id=413)'[image:
http://www.addis-welt.de/smilie/smilie/sp/84255.gif]'
(http://tinyurl.com/ywxgb)'what's this?'
(http://www.outwar.com/page.php?x=2055415)
Namaste!
Dave
------------------------------------------------------------------------
GILD's Profile: http://www.unicyclist.com/profile/657
paco
Jayne ZA wrote:
> *I do, however, have a problem with the media forcing their idea of
> the "ideal girl" down our throats. It goes from the gross ageism seen
> on TV and in movies to the rampant use of the female body (usually
> airbrushed to remove all imperfections) to sell just about anything.
> This reduces women to objects instead of individuals whose value is
> related to their appearance rather than to who they are inside. Far
> too many women suffer from depression, eating disorders, low self
> esteem, because they don't measure up to what society tells them is
> the "norm".
>
> The proliferation of such stylised images just adds to the impact. It
> makes them more acceptable, it makes them more accessible, and it
> makes it easier for impressionable young people to be influenced into
Thank you Jayne. As usual, someone else is able to express what I mean,
since I generally fail.
> So you are saying that "real" women are fat and ugly?
Thank you, Xtremeskier. You illustrated my point perfectly. If you are
specifically refering to the protaganist in My Big Fat Greek Wedding,
for your information she is not fat nor ugly. She is actually very
normal. The problem is that we never see women like that in the media.
They don't sell. Men are allowed to be plain looking, women are not.
Of course, there are exceptions, but this is a general rule.
What role models to women have to look up to? To be desireable, you
need to be malnourished, have a non-functional body (did you know that
some of the "fittest" athlete women stop having their periods because
their bodies are in a state of shock?), and wear impractical clothing.
If guys wanted a male role model to emulate as far as looks go, that
would be the equivalent of desiring a body like Ghandi's.
Oh, and Sofa, you're welcome. ;)
(BTW, this is the backlash I was talking about. It's not hateful, but I
knew most people would disagree with me."
--
paco - Co-Founder of the PacoGild Movement
I'm having trouble thinking cognitively.
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dforbes
Is it too obvious to suggest that if someone doesn't care for the
uni-girl T-shirt, they not buy one?
dazedNcontused wrote:
>
> Show me a T-shirt with the same girl - even wearing the same T-shirt -
> but -riding- the uni and wearing shorts, helmet, pads, mud and a big
> smile, and you've got something!
>
> Tim
Tim's got a good idea! How about it, Darren? Any chance your artist
friend could make this modification?
BTW, I bought one of the infamous shirts, but then I'm so old nobody's
going to take it seriously - there's "ageism" for ya!
Doug
--
dforbes - Unicycling Newfie
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hell-on-wheel
Touché!
--
hell-on-wheel - My karma ran over your dogma
On the other hand, you have different fingers. - Steven Wright
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muniracer
paco wrote:
> *
>
> What do you mean by this one? The girl is not real, but neither are
> the girls you see in Playboy, Vogue, or in any American movie (with
> the exception of a very small percentage, like My Big Fat Greek
> ornament. It doesn't matter if it's a photograph or a drawing; either
> women be real, and I would hate to see this mentality enter into the
> Unicycling consciousness.
> approve of such trash.
> I'm sorry if I offended anyone but I don't apologize; I have seen too
> much damage done in this world because of the propagation of this
> objectification mentality.
> bring it on...) *
I mean she is a cartoon, not a person. When I first saw the shirt I was
somewhat horrified. The reason I approve of it is because it seems to
satarize the use of a model in sports ads. no nonunicyclist would see
it and not think it was funny. its like a hotrod magazine with a
scantily-clad blonde sitting on the hood except this is a girl on a
unicycle. while other ads seriously try to sell the car, skateboard,
etc with the girl's body, this is not trying to do any such thing. no
one will see it and say, "damn, if i rode a unicycle like that id be
sure to get a girl like that." a hotrod analogy would yield the
opposite result.
in literature you will often see feminism in the form of sexist satire.
in flaubert's madam bovary, the protagonist attempts to sell her body in
order to pay back loans. at first glance this is perpetuating sexism,
but if it is correctly analyzed, one will see that flaubert is actually
in a favor of feminism and is showing that at the time, the only way for
a woman to have power over a man is by sex. in "hedda gabbler" by
ibsen, the protagonist kills herself to prevent punishment and
embarrassment for a past mistake. the fact that her only option to
protect her own honor is through suicide shows us that women lack the
power of men and something must be done. the examples are endless. in
camus' "the stranger," the protagonist kills an arab out of ignorance or
racism. camus is showing how racism was ingrained in the minds of
people in that society. he is not supporting racism, even though his
character readily believes in it. he expexts people to realize this is
wrong and realize it is a huge problem.
i am probably thinking way too much into this but the t-shirt is a
similar example. it says, "sports too often use sexism to sell and see,
it looks silly when applied to unicycling."
go to www.blackpeopleloveus.com
this website is not perpetuating racism, it is doing the opposite. it
does this through reverse psychology. a common mistake made by
feminists and other similar groups is to get upset at every picture or
portrayal of a woman in a negative manner. the problem is that many of
these pictures/portrayals are satirical. the t-shirt does not promote
sexism, it shows how silly sexism really is.
paco- dont think that i didnt carefully think about this before i ame up
with my decision. i first ran the picture by people in my dorm to see
their responses. these are ordinary, dumb americans. the picture got
the following responses, "haha, a unicycle!" "that's hilarious, a
hotrod babe on a unicycle!" and other such similar responses where the
emphasis was always on the uni, but not always on the girl. i would
feel perefectly comfortable wearing this shirt to my gender studies
class. people would understand that this shirt must be looked at
through a certain lens and that it amiguously promotes our cause.
dang, this was long.
--
muniracer - Hell On Wheel
The Hell on Wheel Unicycle Gang owns you!!
www.hellonwheel.cjb.net
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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slugbath
That all said, I like the comic-style artwork. Who is the artist,
Darren?
--
slugbath - Toodling...
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Erin
dazedNcontused wrote:
> * Show me a T-shirt with the same girl - even wearing the same T-shirt
> - but -riding- the uni and wearing shorts, helmet, pads, mud and a big
> smile, and you've got something!
>
I'm all over that idea......when is it coming out?! Darren....put me
on the list for one! I want a Tee with a real woman riding a MUni.
Erin
--
Erin - Onewheeler
"You broke your leg doing WHAT!?"
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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slugbath
Hey, now you all know why fewer women unicycle: the wedgies are HELL!
(buh-dump-CHING!)
I see muniracer's (well-defined) point, but I just don't buy that the
majority of people will see the design ironically. Most folks will see
a hot chick on a unicycle.
I think shorts would have made a world of difference to my perception of
the shirt. I'm no prude and I am happy to have both sexes parade naked
all over if people so desire, but I'm just kind of disappointed that a
girl has got to be in her underoos to make a funky shirt.
A lot of other alt-sports go for this borderline T&A approach to
artisically rendering females (e.g., shortboard, bmx), instead of
displaying girls as serious atheletes. Maybe it makes trials look
legit, quasi-distinguishing it from the "wholesome" circus arts history,
but is buying into a bad scheme a good thing? I'm not hugely impressed,
but then...I'm not the target audience, am I?
An interesting moment in the style-branding of unicycling...
Enjoy your shirts.
andrea
--
slugbath - Toodling...
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paco
muniracer wrote:
> *i would feel perefectly comfortable wearing this shirt to my gender
> studies class.*
I double dog dare you!
:D
--
paco - Co-Founder of the PacoGild Movement
I'm having trouble thinking cognitively.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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paco
But what are you advertising?
--
paco - Co-Founder of the PacoGild Movement
I'm having trouble thinking cognitively.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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U-Turn
The only bad advertising is no advertising.
--
U-Turn - Member of Generation XO
Weep in the dojo... laugh on the battlefield.
'29er Tire Study' (http://u-turn.unicyclist.com/29erTireStudy/)
'Strongest Coker Wheel in the World'
(http://www.unicyclist.com/gallery/albup39)
'New York Unicycle Club' (http://www.newyorkunicycle.com)
-- Dave Stockton
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Mc
> -originally posted by muniracer-
> in literature you will often see feminism in the form of sexist
> satire. in flaubert's madam bovary, the protagonist attempts to sell
> her body in order to pay back loans. at first glance this is
> perpetuating sexism, but if it is correctly analyzed, one will see
> that flaubert is actually in a favor of feminism and is showing that
> at the time, the only way for a woman to have power over a man is by
> sex. in "hedda gabbler" by ibsen, the protagonist kills herself to
> prevent punishment and embarrassment for a past mistake. the fact
> that her only option to protect her own honor is through suicide shows
> us that women lack the power of men and something must be done. the
> examples are endless.
*Au contraire mon frère*
First of all, the “feminism” you are talking about is humanist feminism.
This is the kind of feminism where the prevailing idea is that the way
to be a worthwhile human being is to be male or have male-like power.
Humanist feminism (old school feminism, 19th century) defines women’s
oppression as the inhibition and distortion of women’s potential by a
society that allows the self-development of men. So, on the other hand,
gynocentric feminism (the most current form) defines women’s oppression
as the devaluation and repression of women’s experience by a masculinist
culture that exalts violence and individualism.
Both of the works that you are using as examples are written by men—and
they represent the attitudes of men about the oppression and liberation
(by the use of sexual power—not truly feminine at all) of women, rather
than the actual valuing of women. They are classic examples of humanist
feminism. As part of your interpretation you say: “the only way for a
woman to have power over a man is by sex” and then you tell us that
these works “show us that women lack the power of men.” You illustrate
the humanistic approach very well.
In response to humanist feminism, Margaret Fuller (a 19th century
writer) wrote: “If women were allowed to be who women really are, they
would never want to be men.” Here are the seeds of current feminism
(gynocentric feminism). This feminism is not making women into men or
giving women men’s power in order to make their lives worthwhile—it is
truly valuing the female experience as much as the male experience; it
is letting women have their own empowerment and acknowledging that their
lives are worthwhile, letting their lives be worthwhile.
The t-shirt is definitely the devaluing of women. A definition of
pornography is anything that separates the soul from the body. The
picture of the woman on the unicycle is only a body—just a sex object.
There is nothing good about this portrayal of women. It is debasing,
devaluing, and offensive because it represents the fact that people feel
“fine” and “comfortable” objectifying women.
We ought to value women as equals, value their experience. And it seems
that the fact that this conversation is going on shows that there are
definitely some of us who value women for who they are rather than the
bodies they have of those of us who do not.
--
Mc - level ten crasher
---Mc
Inauthenticity is our modern form of plague: it kills life.
---Patch Adams
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johnfoss
john_childs wrote:
> *Looks like Jack finally got his shirt (see the above linked thread).
> *
To my knowledge, this is the third "Jack" shirt. I have a "Team Jack"
shirt from UNICON 11. I think they had a different one either before or
after that one. But these new ones are far cooler. I'll be getting
one.
The other shirt I probably won't get. Though I am a uni T-shirt
collector, there are now too many out there for me to try to get every
one, so I concentrate on event shirts and the ones I am likely to wear.
I would not be likely to wear that one.
However I am not offended if somebody else chooses to wear it. This is
my interpretation of the US First Ammendment, and the tolerance that is
required of anyone who believes in it. The shirt's taste can be
questioned, and is more a reflection of the person who wears it than it
is of unicycling, the artist, Bedford Cycles, or anyone else. I choose
to limit the messages I put on my clothing, car, or elsewhere.
For example, even a cool shirt design that uses a beer label will
probably not interest me. Not because I think beer is evil, but because
I am not a beer drinker and beer is not something I think of as "cool."
--
johnfoss - Home of the Garage Page
John Foss, the Uni-Cyclone
"jfoss" at "unicycling.com"
www.unicycling.com
"Don't let gravity get you down."
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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john_childs
johnfoss wrote:
> *To my knowledge, this is the third "Jack" shirt. I have a "Team Jack"
> shirt from UNICON 11. I think they had a different one either before
> or after that one. But these new ones are far cooler. I'll be getting
But this one says "You don't know Jack" :)
I, however, find Jack's shirt to devalue the adolescent male. It makes
a mockery of Jack and turns him into nothing but an object of ridicule.
It rips the soul right from his body and puts it inside of a spring
loaded children's toy. It's completely demeaning and portrays the
adolescent male as nothing but an object to laugh at. I find that
degrading and I will not be buying the shirt because I just couldn't
wear it in public.
--
john_childs - Guinness Mojo
john_childs (at) hotmail (dot) com
Gallery: '' (http://www.unicyclist.com/gallery/john_childs)
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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muniracer
Mc wrote:
> *
> *Au contraire mon frère*
>
> First of all, the “feminism Eyou are talking about is humanist
> feminism. This is the kind of feminism where the prevailing idea is
> that the way to be a worthwhile human being is to be male or have
> male-like power. Humanist feminism (old school feminism, 19th
> century) defines women’s oppression as the inhibition and distortion
> of women’s potential by a society that allows the self-development of
> men. So, on the other hand, gynocentric feminism (the most current
> form) defines women’s oppression as the devaluation and repression of
> women’s experience by a masculinist culture that exalts violence and
> individualism.
>
> Both of the works that you are using as examples are written by
> men—and they represent the attitudes of men about the oppression and
> liberation (by the use of sexual power—not truly feminine at all) of
> women, rather than the actual valuing of women. They are classic
> examples of humanist feminism. As part of your interpretation you
> then you tell us that these works “show us that women lack the power
>
> In response to humanist feminism, Margaret Fuller (a 19th century
> writer) wrote: “If women were allowed to be who women really are, they
> (gynocentric feminism). This feminism is not making women into men or
> giving women men’s power in order to make their lives worthwhile—it is
> truly valuing the female experience as much as the male experience; it
> is letting women have their own empowerment and acknowledging that
> their lives are worthwhile, letting their lives be worthwhile.
>
> The t-shirt is definitely the devaluing of women. A definition of
> pornography is anything that separates the soul from the body. The
> picture of the woman on the unicycle is only a body—just a sex object.
> There is nothing good about this portrayal of women. It is debasing,
> devaluing, and offensive because it represents the fact that people
>
> We ought to value women as equals, value their experience. And it
> seems that the fact that this conversation is going on shows that
> there are definitely some of us who value women for who they are
yes the works i mentioned are consistent with 19th century feminism
because they were written either in the 19th centry or first decade of
the 20th century (except camus, but that wasnt feminism). Personally, I
believe in liberal feminism, i think is the term, where both sexes
should be equal, legally and culturally, as opposed to having seperate
but equal strengths and weaknesses, but i do believe that legislation
that provides special benefits for women is acceptable until perfect
equality can be achieved. i understand that it looked like i was saying
that women should be treated like men but i view it differently. Men
are treated as humans while women as something lower. i want both sexes
to be treated as humans.
i understand that not everyone will see the satire
my first response was that despite the message i have implied of the
t-shirt, ssuch an image should not be shown. but then i decided that
the issue must be confronted. if you only cover up the pictures, it
wont change peoples' minds. but if you look at it and discuss it a
posotive reuslt can be achieved!
i think a picture of a girl riding would be much better. i am just
arguing that there is a place for satire, especially where one might not
expect. i think this can yield the best results.
edit. i may not know jack, but i do know that this thread has been
jacked.
--
muniracer - Hell On Wheel
The Hell on Wheel Unicycle Gang owns you!!
www.hellonwheel.cjb.net
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Mike Rocks
Darren,
You got some cool shirts there boy. However I do think the girl on the
TUni is looking like she is more like on a MUni. As well I think if she
had a bit more on to wear, would be good as well. That or else short
shorts rather than Underoos as Andrea put it.
I do find that both the t-shirts lack something that I always like to
see in a t-shirt. That is, to have the logo on the front of the shirt
were I can see it. I do enjoy to see the logo that I'm wearing on the
t-shirt of the day. I would say that would be an idea for the next run
of t-shirts. Put the graphic logo on the front of the shirt.
--
Mike Rocks - Vancouver rider
Java Jacket
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Checkernuts
Someone has to appreciate the nastalgics of the Bomber Nose Art style
that goes into the girl on the unicycle.
--
Checkernuts - Me Fail English? That's Unpossible
No one said it was gonna be easy and I'm not afraid to try, with the
odds stacked up against me I will have to fight, One Life One Wheel got
to do it right. H20
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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bugman
I thought it was one of those optical illusion pictures. If you stare
at it long enough, you can see the unicycle.:D
Though as I said before, I won't be buying it, I see no reason why
others shouldn't. If you don't like it, don't buy it.
The one thing that I do like about the shirt is it's complete and utter
seperation of unicycling from clowns. This image makes a complete
mental break from the thought of a unicycle being ridden by a clown. I
am fairly certain that noone will confuse the cartoon women with a
clown, of course if they don't look long enough they miss the
unicycle.;)
--
bugman - Professional Assasin
forget_your_life wrote:
> *dude i like your video's and think that your most likely a cool guy
> in person but why do you have to be such a jack-ass online? *
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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xtremeskier_
bugman wrote:
> *The one thing that I do like about the shirt is it's complete and
> utter seperation of unicycling from clowns. This image makes a
> complete mental break from the thought of a unicycle being ridden by a
Thats exactly why im getting it. Thanks bugman, couldnt have said it
better.
--
xtremeskier_ - Logan Altier
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zod
Checkernuts wrote:
> *Someone has to appreciate the nastalgics of the Bomber Nose Art style
> that goes into the girl on the unicycle. *
Oh yea, I think it rocks!!!!
and if I might quote myself...
zod wrote:
> *It's a shirt people...... :D *
:p
--
zod - Icey Hot Stunta(z)
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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mgrant
I think both shirts are cool though I'd never wear either of them.
Am I the only one who thinks the girl has the arms of an orangutan?
I mean, come on, how the heck can her fingers be wrapped around the back
of the seat while her shoulders are kinda shrugged?
That alone makes me have to look away.
-mg
--
mgrant - Ever hoping for the best!
The sun is the same in a relative way but you're older, shorter of
breath, and one day closer to death.
michael_j_grant (at) yahoo (dot) com
Gallery: http://www.unicyclist.com/gallery/Michael_Grant/
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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unilaur
Being a girl myself i think these shirts are cool. I DO NOT think the
chick on e is sexist all. I think it is lame when girls complain about
stuff like this being "sexist " but when they wear shirts and stuff with
coments about boys or with a picture of a guy with no shirt and his
underware it would be fine. Gals you need to get your mind straight!!
All the power to ya Darren!
Peace Laur
--
unilaur - Lauren "Wall" Lee
It's not right if it has more than one wheel...Uni is the only right way
to ride!
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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xtremeskier_
unilaur wrote:
> *Being a girl myself i think these shirts are cool. I DO NOT think the
> chick one is sexist at all. [...] All the power to ya Darren!
>
> Peace Laur *
Did you catch that one PACO? Maybe you are just a total right wing
conservative republican, but as you can see women don't have a problem
with this shirt. I think you need to get over your hangups with the
female anatomy. Thank you Unilaur.
--
xtremeskier_ - Logan Altier
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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muniracer
xtremeskier_ wrote:
> *
>
> Did you catch that one PACO? Maybe you are just a total right wing
> conservative republican, but as you can see women don't have a problem
> with this shirt. I think you need to get over your hangups with the
hmmmmm. strange that you equate republicans with feminism, since those
stupid republicans dont care about anything except money...
--
muniracer - Hell On Wheel
The Hell on Wheel Unicycle Gang owns you!!
www.hellonwheel.cjb.net
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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GILD
xtremeskier_ wrote:
> *but as you can see women don't have a problem with this shirt. *
no, actually, as u can see, LAUREN doesn't have a problem with the shirtslugbath wrote:
> *I'm no prude and I am happy to have both sexes parade naked all over
> if people so desire, but I'm just kind of disappointed that a girl has
> got to be in her underoos to make a funky shirt.
> andrea *
Jayne ZA wrote:
> *I do, however, have a problem with the media forcing their idea of
Erin wrote:
> *I'm all over that idea......when is it coming out?! Darren....put
> me on the list for one! I want a Tee with a real woman riding a
i'm not trying to speak for the ladies here, may i suggest u go read
their posts again and make up your own mind?
i make it a tie at this point
--
GILD - Waffle-tosser (ocfopgm)
'They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.-- Benjamin Franklin,
HistoricalReview of Pennsylvania, 1759
' (http://www.soaw.org/new/newswire_detail.php?id=413)'[image:
http://www.addis-welt.de/smilie/smilie/sp/84255.gif]'
(http://tinyurl.com/ywxgb)'what's this?'
(http://www.outwar.com/page.php?x=2055415)
Namaste!
Dave
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Mc
GILD wrote:
> *no, actually, as u can see, LAUREN doesn't have a problem with the
> shirti'm not trying to speak for the ladies here, may i suggest u go
> read their posts again and make up your own mind?
Thanks. I couldn’t have said it better.
To add to the variety of female response, one girl’s response after
seeing the t-shirt design was that she was very disappointed. She said
that she used to think unicyclists were cool, but now she says we
sexualize our sport just like everyone else.
--
Mc - level ten crasher
---Mc
Inauthenticity is our modern form of plague: it kills life.
---Patch Adams
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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U-Turn
Mc wrote:
> *
>
> Thanks. I couldn’t have said it better.
>
> To add to the variety of female response, one girl’s response after
> seeing the t-shirt design was that she was very disappointed. She
> said that she used to think unicyclists were cool, but now she says we
Hmmm. This is a prime example of the way unicycling is starting to
mainstream. She doesn't realize that the typical Unicyclist is a bit
oddly intelligent and often whimsically tongue-in-cheek. The typical
Monster Truck Driver, I would guess, is not.
--
U-Turn - Member of Generation XO
Weep in the dojo... laugh on the battlefield.
'29er Tire Study' (http://u-turn.unicyclist.com/29erTireStudy/)
'Strongest Coker Wheel in the World'
(http://www.unicyclist.com/gallery/albup39)
'New York Unicycle Club' (http://www.newyorkunicycle.com)
-- Dave Stockton
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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bugman
Mc wrote:
> *
>
> Thanks. I couldn’t have said it better.
>
> To add to the variety of female response, one girl’s response after
> seeing the t-shirt design was that she was very disappointed. She
> said that she used to think unicyclists were cool, but now she says we
> sexualize our sport just like everyone else. *
I would say she was a bigot and prejudiced based on that comment. You
can get into trouble when you generalize.
--
bugman - Professional Assasin
forget_your_life wrote:
> *dude i like your video's and think that your most likely a cool guy
> in person but why do you have to be such a jack-ass online? *
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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paco
bugman wrote:
> *The one thing that I do like about the shirt is it's complete and
> utter seperation of unicycling from clowns. This image makes a
> complete mental break from the thought of a unicycle being ridden by a
> with a clown, of course if they don't look long enough they miss the
And what would happen if Bedford Unicycles came out with a t-shirt with
a clown riding a unicycle? How many of you would be offended then? How
many would say, "it's just a t-shirt?" How many would recognise it at
satire?
Yes, some of you would. But others would try to tell me that it
devalues the unicycling experience, that it limits us to a stereotype
and propogates an image that we don't want to be recognised by. But,
the only bad advertising is no advertising, eh, U-Turn?
When is the female experience going to have a "complete and utter
seperation [sic]" from the image of sex-object? That is not part of the
female experience, that is an artificially imposed method for women to
feel some sort of power in their lives, when it actually is the exact
opposite. How many of you would feel good about unicycling if the only
time you got any recognition was when you dressed up like a clown?
--
paco - Co-Founder of the PacoGild Movement
I'm having trouble thinking cognitively.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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johnfoss
Mc wrote:
> *She said that she used to think unicyclists were cool, but now she
> says we sexualize our sport just like everyone else. *
I have dozens of unicycling T-shirts. Some are cool, some are ugly, some
are amateur, some are professional. But none of them, not a single one,
reperesents all of unicycling or all unicyclists.
You cannot tell unicyclists what to put on their T-shirts. You can,
however, tell them you do or don't like a certain design. This does not
mean necessarily that they shouldn't be made. Mostly it means *you
shouldn't buy it.* You can also feel more strongly and say it presents a
bad image for our sport. But it does not officially represent our sport,
and it does not officially represent all of us (you included, of
course). It is just a T-shirt.
Some people like images of "chicks." They have them with images of cars
and other motor vehicles, beer, sports equipment, and about anything you
can name. Now add unicycles. Our sport is growing up. Our T-shirts are
no longer all innocent!
Hey John Childs. I know you "know" Jack, but I think you don't "really
know" Jack. That's pretty much what he looks like and I'm pretty sure
his head really can do that. :D
--
johnfoss - Home of the Garage Page
John Foss, the Uni-Cyclone
"jfoss" at "unicycling.com"
www.unicycling.com
"Don't let gravity get you down."
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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paco
xtremeskier_ wrote:
> *Did you catch that one PACO? Maybe you are just a total right wing
> conservative republican, but as you can see women don't have a problem
> with this shirt. I think you need to get over your hangups with the
> female anatomy. Thank you Unilaur. *
-Originally posted by Bugman-
> I would say [he] was a bigot and prejudiced based on that comment. You
> can get into trouble when you generalize.
For your information, xtremeskier, I am an Independent, but lean towards
Democrat on most issues, including this one.
--
paco - Co-Founder of the PacoGild Movement
I'm having trouble thinking cognitively.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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tomblackwood
paco wrote:
> *For your information, xtremeskier, I am an Independent, but lean
> towards Democrat on most issues, including this one. *
And how exactly do Democrats lean on the "hot cartoon chicks on unicycle
tee shirts" issue? I don't remember that one coming out in the
debates...
--
tomblackwood - Registered Nurtz
Tailgate at your own risk.....
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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JamesH
As with all forms of art, obviously everyone interprets it
differently.
At first I was worried the inspiration for the shirt might have come
from the infamous Harper photo.
Mc wrote:
> *
> To add to the variety of female response, one girl’s response after
> seeing the t-shirt design was that she was very disappointed. She
> said that she used to think unicyclists were cool, but now she says we
> sexualize our sport just like everyone else. *
I see it differently than she does, as in the shirt is poking fun at
'the other sports'. The way hot-rod magazines have pictures of women in
bikini's lying on motor-cycles or car hoods. The whole concept of
'sexualizing' unicycles almost seems like an oxymoron.
--
JamesH - Back into the swing of things
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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zod
They're probably for it.......at least Bill Clinton would have been :D
--
zod - Icey Hot Stunta(z)
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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muniracer
Mc wrote:
> *
>
> doesn't sound like satire to me. sounds like marketing women. *
as you may know, roe (of row v. wade) has recently come public stating
that she regrets the effects of her case (essentially legalizing
abortion). somehow, she thinks what she has done is bad. but obviously
it is good. the original intent is irrevelant. as you read through the
posts, you will see that James H expressed the same idea I did pages
earlier, so while some wont see the satire, some will, and that is what
counts. while darren may not have intended to make a social statement
with this shirt, he has.
--
muniracer - Hell On Wheel
The Hell on Wheel Unicycle Gang owns you!!
www.hellonwheel.cjb.net
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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slugbath
unilaur wrote:
> *Being a girl myself i think these shirts are cool. I DO NOT think the
> about stuff like this being "sexist " but when they wear shirts and
> stuff with coments about boys or with a picture of a guy with no shirt
> and his underware it would be fine. Gals you need to get your mind
1. First and foremost, if you like the shirts, buy them, wear them,
support a quality small business that cares about unicycling and takes
care of its clients -- it is your statement, your torso and your dollar.
I am enjoying this discussion of commercial unicycle culture.
2. If the shirt design had been a gentleman in his tighty-whities, I
would have been equally unimpressed, no matter how his physique had been
rendered.
3. Though I have no argument with anyone who chooses to don such
apparel, my wardrobe does not personally include shirts with men or
women in any form of dress (that said, I must admit to owning a shirt
with a bare-chested, assumedly male Smokey the Bear...he IS wearing
pants, I assure you).
4. My mind hasn't been straight since high school.
Awesome that you think the shirt is cool, unilaur, good on you! But
please do not insist that I like it too.
thanks,
andrea
--
slugbath - Toodling...
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paco
So to all those who think that this is harmless satire, what if I
designed a t-shirt which had a picture of a member of the Klu Klux Klan
riding on a unicycle, and at the bottom, it read, "Unicyclists are the
superior race!" Would this offend anyone? This shirt would obviously
be satire, and yet certain pockets of the community would be offended,
and justifiably. Although protected by the First Amendment of the
Constitution, I would not have tolerance for a shirt like that, and I
would state my objections just as loudly.
I'm not trying to say that putting a girl on a t-shirt is the same as
putting the KKK on there. What I'm saying is that a message is not
automatically exempt from criticism because it's satire. Nor is it
"just a t-shirt."
The argument of "if you don't like it, just don't buy it" is working on
the assumption that my disliking it is purely a matter of aesthetics.
This is not me judging the t-shirt on its aesthetics. I am judging it
on its moral implications. I would be a hypocrite if I remained silent
on something that I find so blatantly wrong. Listen carefully-- *I'm
not simply saying that I don't like it; I am saying that it is wrong to
portray women like that.* To me, it would be better to put a clown on a
unicycle (which incidentally, I do see as a matter of aesthetics) than
to put a half-naked woman on a unicycle (which is a moral judgement).
I'm not attacking anyone in particular; I don't dislike any of you that
have different opinions than me. But I am attacking the entire
phallocentric culture in which we live that allows such blatant sexism.
The fact that most have told me to "lighten up" just shows how deeply
conditioned we have become to accept this moral issue as a matter of
taste.
I'm not being contrary for the sake of being contrary. I have generally
stayed out of the heated debates on this website, and like to stay
amiable towards everyone. If I didn't feel so strongly about this
issue, I wouldn't run the risk of alienation and lowering of estimation
in many people's eyes. But if one person takes a deep look inside
themselves and recognises their own phallocentric perspectives (and
ironically, this includes the girls), then all this is worth it.
--
paco - Co-Founder of the PacoGild Movement
I'm having trouble thinking cognitively.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
paco's Profile: http://www.unicyclist.com/profile/3715
U-Turn
I respect what you're saying, Paco, it's just that I think it's a
misplaced use of energy. Remember that these are caricatures. They
have certain characteristics highly exaggerated. For Jack it's his
crazyness. Does Jack have more to him than just being a little wild?
yes. Is a real uni woman more than just body parts? Of course. These
pictures are not a threat to Jack or to a real unicycling woman. Just
like an equivalent male pic is not a threat to me, any more than KH's
bare-torso video clip.
Let's say that the KH video is a threat to me. In what way would that
be? How could that be a threat? Well, in that it might cause some
woman to pass me over that ordinarily would have considered me, because
she sees that he has abdominal muscles that are exposed and that mine
are hidden. :rolleyes:
If I am being rational, I see that that is ridiculous, because any woman
whose judgement is based on that criteria alone is not going to be good
for me in any way that I consider important.
I could just as easily rant on how Jack has a full head of hair and that
we shouldn't protray people with full heads of hair on t-shirts because
it's a threat to me.
If you say that it is wrong, then you essentially have to say that all
caricatures are wrong, and in fact all exaggeration. In fact, anything
that isn't a strict adherence to factual reality. But reality is
subjective as well, as are "facts".
--
U-Turn - Member of Generation XO
Weep in the dojo... laugh on the battlefield.
'29er Tire Study' (http://u-turn.unicyclist.com/29erTireStudy/)
'Strongest Coker Wheel in the World'
(http://www.unicyclist.com/gallery/albup39)
'New York Unicycle Club' (http://www.newyorkunicycle.com)
-- Dave Stockton
------------------------------------------------------------------------
U-Turn's Profile: http://www.unicyclist.com/profile/691
Jayne ZA
slugbath wrote:
> *Awesome that you think the shirt is cool, unilaur, good on you! But
> please do not insist that I like it too.*
Andrea, thanks for saying that so precisely and so diplomatically.
Everybody is entitled to their OWN opinion. While I personally feel
that freedom of speech does not extend to shouting "Fire" in a crowded
cinema, it does not mean that I can only express an opinion if it is the
same as yours.
Jayne
--
Jayne ZA - Learning to ride on a Coker
Being a statistician means never having to say you're certain
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jayne ZA's Profile: http://www.unicyclist.com/profile/4878
Darren
Hello !
I was at the TOque unicycle trails competition since posting the info on
the new
Bedford Unicycles T-shirts.
Wow, here are a few stats on this posting...
Views on webshots - over 1700
Views on unicyclist.com - over 2000
Replys on unicyclist.com - almost 80
Thanks for letting me know your opinion of the shirts. I appreciate all
of them.
No one seams to have any issues with Jack's shirt.
Cool !
If... You don't know Jack ! I hope you get the opportunity to meet him
one day. Super cool guy.
I just dropped him off at the airport as he makes his way home after the
competition.
There are a few people who have woman issues with the cartoon girl on
the unicycle.
For those of you who do, sorry. It wasn't intended to offend anyone.
Here is the scoop:
I asked the artist to draw me a cartoon picture of Jack using a photo I
supplied. I told him I wanted to have his head on a spring popping out
of a box
like a "Jack in the box".
I didn't tell him how to draw the picture. After all, he is the artist.
My instructions were followed and I was very happy with the outcome.
Better than I expected. I was really happy with his work. Finally I
found a guy who could draw what I was picturing in my head. I had been
looking for someone like him for a few years.
I sent a copy to Jack to get his OK to use it on T-shirts. He was fine
with the deal we worked out.
So is everyone else by the sales of them in the first few days !
The girl on the trials unicycle was the second idea I gave the artist.
AT NO TIME DID I SAY, MAKE SURE SHE IS IN A THONG!
I just asked for a girl on a unicycle.
I was going to get a picture of a real girl on a unicycle like I had for
the sponsor page on Universe 2 but Kristin Donahoo lives a little to far
away !
I have a list of other unicyclists I would like to have as well but none
live close enough either.
Anyway, back to the cartoon girl.
The first thing I said was to the artist after he showed me the drawing
was, Is she ever cute !
I didn't give him any picture to use for the girl. That is his work
totally.
He used my own trials unicycle to draw the unicycle. I would have liked
for him to have spent a little more time on the tire tread and a few
other little details but again, he is the artist and I didn't feel I
should have him alter his work. I will be a little more informative with
the next ones before he starts.
I think the breasts were somewhat proportional, not mega oversized like
in most comic books.
I never really thought about the bathing suit bottom at all.
I guess he could have drawn her with a bathing suit top as well.
I wonder if that would that have been worse with even less clothing...
The next two shirts are not going to have any girls in a bathing suit or
T-shirt. Sorry guys !
I will have more info on the next shirts soon.
NOTE:
SHE WILL NOT BE DRAWN WITH A BATHING SUIT BOTTOM AGAIN.
By the way, I sold lots of the girl shirts to non-unicyclists at the
unicycle competition on the week-end and one or more to most guys at the
competition ! EVEN GIRLS GOT THEM !
Carl Hoyer was told not to wear his girl shirt by his girlfriend Sara,
an awesome freestyle unicyclist. Carl's mom had no problem with it.
Ryan Atkin's got one for his girlfriend.
She will wear it and dosen't have a problem with it. His girlfriend is
super cute too.
Kris Holm doesn't think his wife will let him wear
his. I hope she doesn't find out he already wore it !
I was not going to even make a shirt of the girl on the unicycle until I
had so many requests to do so.
I already have a few orders here that must have been mailed as soon as
the post went up.
They will be sent tomorrow.
If you have been wanting to post a reply to this thread and haven't yet,
please do. I would like to hear from you all. Thanks.
One more thing... I think she needs a name.
I hate to keep calling her... that girl.
Carl Hoyer thinks it should be Lola.
Jeff Groves thinks it should be Lolita.
I kinda think she looks like a Dana or Denise.
Check this out...
When Jack was checking in at the airport today,
the Air Canada lady at the booth look very much like... that girl. So
much that Jack asked her what her name was. She paused and asked why he
wanted to know. Jack said that she looked like someone we knew. She
said what's her name ?
Jeff Groves and I started laughing as Jack had a blank look on his face.
He said to her, look here as he handed her a picture of... that girl.
She even though it looked like her. She said it must be the hair. She
did agree there was a likeness. We talked to her a little more and she
ended up keeping the card.
Oh ya, her name was... Ula
Pronounced... YOU LA
We didn't get the spelling.
Jeff, Jack and I couldn't believe it rhymed with unicycle ! We had
another good laugh.
We, all 4 of us including Ula, had big smiles.
Another cool non-unicycle experience with Jack !
Nick, one of the Bedford Factory riders, actually said that girl's name
should be Ula days before we ran into Ula at the airport !!!
Both Nick and Ula are Greek. I never met a Ula before. It must be a
semi-common Greek name.
What do you suggest I name... that girl ?
Darren
--
Darren - Bedford Unicycles
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Darren's Profile: http://www.unicyclist.com/profile/3989
GILD
zod wrote:
> *Darren, there's a lot of uptight people in this world and you can't
> please all the people all the time.*
zod, to try n brush off Paco et al's well reasoned arguments against the
perpetuation of sexual stereotypes and the promotion of sexism as '...a
lot of uptight people...' leaves a very bad taste in the mouth.
a variety of points have been made on either side of this issue.
to get personal and describe people as 'uptight' just because they hold
different opinions to your own is really not neccesary.
u can do better than that
now i need to go eat a lump of coal again...
;)
--
GILD - Waffle-tosser (ocfopgm)
'They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.-- Benjamin Franklin,
HistoricalReview of Pennsylvania, 1759
' (http://www.soaw.org/new/newswire_detail.php?id=413)'[image:
http://www.addis-welt.de/smilie/smilie/sp/84255.gif]'
(http://tinyurl.com/ywxgb)'what's this?'
(http://www.outwar.com/page.php?x=2055415)
Namaste!
Dave
------------------------------------------------------------------------
GILD's Profile: http://www.unicyclist.com/profile/657
GILD
zod wrote:
> *I wasn't referring to Paco or anybody else. Just saying Darren isn't
> going to please everybody............it's impossible. *
and i believe i did quote that comment in total in my previous post.
i also believe u to be absolutely correct in that statement.
u did however go futher than simply stating that basic truth.
care to enlighten me on who u were referring to when u mentioned the
'...uptight people...'?
--
GILD - Waffle-tosser (ocfopgm)
'They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.-- Benjamin Franklin,
HistoricalReview of Pennsylvania, 1759
' (http://www.soaw.org/new/newswire_detail.php?id=413)'[image:
http://www.addis-welt.de/smilie/smilie/sp/84255.gif]'
(http://tinyurl.com/ywxgb)'what's this?'
(http://www.outwar.com/page.php?x=2055415)
Namaste!
Dave
------------------------------------------------------------------------
GILD's Profile: http://www.unicyclist.com/profile/657
zod
I was generalizing GILD.......don't get so uptight about it :D :p ;)
--
zod - Icey Hot Stunta(z)
------------------------------------------------------------------------
zod's Profile: http://www.unicyclist.com/profile/3631
Darren
Rayden
I won't be getting rid of that girl !
I will be asking the artist to draw some sort of
pants on her for her next appearance.
Zod
Thanks for the support. You will like the next shirt design for sure.
Do you know Jack ? Most people who have hung out with him at a unicycle
convention during non-unicycling times, when he is at his zannyist,
would want a Jack shirt.
Maybe that should have said, Do you really know Jack !
Even Kris Holm and other unicyclists didn't know some of the other
talents Jack has as he demonstrated them at the party Friday night
hosted by the Groves.
Like you and John Foss said, not everyone would like or want a shirt
with a girl on it.
Personally, my two favorite things are girls and things with wheels.
I will send a T-shirt to the one who comes up with
that girls name.
Keep the names coming in !
Thanks,
Darren
--
Darren - Bedford Unicycles
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Darren's Profile: http://www.unicyclist.com/profile/3989
johnfoss
Darren wrote:
> *No one seams to have any issues with Jack's shirt.
> Cool !*
I don't know if John Childs was kidding or not. I'm still pretty sure
Jack's head can do what it shows on the shirt, so I don't think it's an
innaccurate portrayal. :)
> *AT NO TIME DID I SAY, MAKE SURE SHE IS IN A THONG!
> I just asked for a girl on a unicycle.*
The artist created the art, but as the "client," you are the art
director. I work with art directors every day, so it's a familiar role
to me. In other words, by accepting the art and using it in your
product, you chose to "represent" your artist's imagery. This doesn't
mean you did a bad thing. But it does mean you are the sole person
responsible for what appears on a Bedford shirt or product. Clearly the
product is popular with many, but not everybody.
> *I would have liked for him to have spent a little more time on the
> tire tread and a few other little details but again, he is the artist
> and I didn't feel I should have him alter his work.*
I agree with you that you generally will get the best work if you let
the artist do it "his way." But the changes I would have made are kind
of opposite yours. I thought the unicycle was perhaps a little too
detailed, like it was trying to draw attention away from the girl
(futile in this case). The girl, on the other hand, has some cartoonish
proportions (like huge legs), and seems to be magically perched on top
of the unicycle. She is clearly not riding it (more about that below).
In general, both shirts are very professional looking, and probalby more
appealing to a general audience in the "quality of artwork" department
than most unicycle shirts, including my own. Kudos on finding a good
artist and getting these shirts out for people to buy if they like
them.
> *I guess he could have drawn her with a bathing suit top as well. I
> wonder if that would that have been worse with even less clothing...*
It depends on the message you're trying to send. Bill Jenack took plenty
of pictures of girls riding unicycles in bathing suits, but they were
just riding around the local pool near his house, not doing Trials or
any serious riding.
[Bill Jenack was the founder of the Unicycling Society of America, and I
consider him the "Father of Organized Unicycling." He was not a dirty
old man! He was a fixture in his neighborhood in Westbury, NY, and
taught thousands of people to ride unicycles over the yers, many at the
local pool down the street from his house, where he also taught diving.
Darren knows who he was]
The girl on this shirt is clearly not dressed for riding, and is clearly
not riding. If you don't agree with me, try walking the wheel using just
your toes, while holding the back of the seat with both of your hands.
I'm not saying you can't do it, but you won't look as good as her when
you do. She is posing, not riding.
I thought part of the satire in the image, whether intended or not, was
that she's posing on top of a unicycle with no visible means of support.
More like bomber nose art than a realistic image.
And yes, I would be more inclined to wear a shirt like that if the girl
were wearing pants, which she does not appear to be.
There are two ways to go with that, for possible future images. One is
to dress her in cycling clothes, where she can still look attractive
(sexy), but also be a unicyclist, which she is not in this first image.
Another possible approach is to take her "model" aspect even further,
having her possibly standing next to, or holding the unicycle, possibly
like an advertisement, or like at an auto show. These are just ideas,
and are not intended in the form of telling you what you should do.
> *Oh ya, her name was... Ula
> Pronounced... YOU LA
> We didn't get the spelling. *
I like Ula, except the spelling. People who don't know any better
(probalby most Americans at least) are likely to pronnounce it "Ooola."
It sounds German. I know a German girl named Uta, pronnounced "Oootah."
I would spell her name different so people know to pronnounce the long
U. You could even try something funky, like Yuula. It's up to you. Don't
call her Dana, because Dana Schneider is too well known. I can't think
of any famous unicycle Denises, but I like Yoola better.
You certainly stirred up a lot of interest with that shirt! Like I said
before, it's another sign that unicycling is growing up. By this I mean
we're becoming divirsified, with enough people out there to create a
market for a shirt that does not appeal to everyone.
Paco, I hear your arguments and I understand your side of the issue.
Right or wrong, it is a basic fact of advertising and marketing that sex
sells. I guess you could even call it a scientific fact, because it's so
easy to prove. This fact, good or bad, will not change without massive
changes in our culture. As free thinking citizens, we can make our
choices and voice our opinions, as we all have here. I don't think
people respect you less for having a pro-woman attitude, conservative or
not.
--
johnfoss - Home of the Garage Page
John Foss, the Uni-Cyclone
"jfoss" at "unicycling.com"
www.unicycling.com
"Don't let gravity get you down."
------------------------------------------------------------------------
johnfoss's Profile: http://www.unicyclist.com/profile/832
JJuggle
Here's my two cents on the matter as concerns the girl t-shirt.
This style of advertising and promotion is, as we all know, quite
prevalent.
The important consideration here is how we feel it reflects on
unicycling.
Those who like it can speak with their dollars.
Those who disapprove would do well to communicate with Darren directly
and particularly for customers and potential customers, indicate how it
might or might not affect their buying decisions.
Raphael Lasar
Matawan, NJ
--
JJuggle - Last of the Dogmato-Revisionists
'6th Annual LBI Unithon - Sat, June 5, 2004'
(http://jjuggle.unicyclist.com/lbiunithon)
------------------------------------------------------------------------
JJuggle's Profile: http://www.unicyclist.com/profile/24
U-Turn
The implication behind such a strong "pro-woman" stance is that the
women can't defend themselves. The truth is, and it's obvious to me if
not everybody else, is that that cartoon girl with her toes on the tire
wouldn't stand a chance against any of the fine women of all ages that
I've met in the unicycling world. They really don't need defending.
They are so much deeper, and more beautiful, and real, than this cartoon
that to me there's not really anything to discuss.
However, that line of thinking leads me to this: why not have a line of
t-shirts: real men and women of unicycling. The jack t-shirt fits that
idea pretty well; the Lola one doesn't really.
--
U-Turn - Member of Generation XO
Weep in the dojo... laugh on the battlefield.
'29er Tire Study' (http://u-turn.unicyclist.com/29erTireStudy/)
'Strongest Coker Wheel in the World'
(http://www.unicyclist.com/gallery/albup39)
'New York Unicycle Club' (http://www.newyorkunicycle.com)
-- Dave Stockton
------------------------------------------------------------------------
U-Turn's Profile: http://www.unicyclist.com/profile/691
Mc
paco wrote:
> *The argument of "if you don't like it, just don't buy it" is working
> on the assumption that my disliking it is purely a matter of
> aesthetics. This is not me judging the t-shirt on its aesthetics. I
> am judging it on its moral implications. I would be a hypocrite if I
> remained silent on something that I find so blatantly wrong. Listen
> that it is wrong to portray women like that.- To me, it would be
> better to put a clown on a unicycle (which incidentally, I do see as a
> matter of aesthetics) than to put a half-naked woman on a unicycle
> (which is a moral judgement).
> I'm not attacking anyone in particular; I don't dislike any of you
> that have different opinions than me. But I am attacking the entire
> phallocentric culture in which we live that allows such blatant
> sexism. The fact that most have told me to "lighten up" just shows
> how deeply conditioned we have become to accept this moral issue as a
> matter of taste.
> I'm not being contrary for the sake of being contrary. I have
> generally stayed out of the heated debates on this website, and like
> to stay amiable towards everyone. If I didn't feel so strongly about
> this issue, I wouldn't run the risk of alienation and lowering of
> estimation in many people's eyes. But if one person takes a deep look
> inside themselves and recognises their own phallocentric perspectives
> (and ironically, this includes the girls), then all this is worth it.
just for the record, paco, i don't find you "uptight." nor do i find
your energy misdirected (where else should your energy be directed but
into the things you really believe in?). i agree with you that women
should be given more respect than society is in the way of giving them.
even if sex sells, that doesn't mean that we have to accept it and say
"sure, whatever." we still ought to be true to our personal morality.
bravo for your honesty.
also, if a girly t-shirt like the one that started this debate means
that unicycling is "growing up"---maybe i'd rather we didn't become
"adult."
--
Mc - level ten crasher
---Mc
Inauthenticity is our modern form of plague: it kills life.
---Patch Adams
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mc's Profile: http://www.unicyclist.com/profile/4296
JJuggle
Mc wrote:
> *even if sex sells, that doesn't mean that we have to accept it and
> say "sure, whatever." we still ought to be true to our personal
One of my favorite exchanges from a movie, in this case, 'Contact'
(http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0118884/):
*David Drumlin:* I know you must think this is all very unfair. Maybe
that's an understatement. What you don't know is I agree. I wish the
world was a place where fair was the bottom line, where the kind of
idealism you showed at the hearing was rewarded, not taken advantage of.
Unfortunately, we don't live in that world.
*Ellie Arroway:* Funny, I've always believed that the world is what we
make of it.
Sorry, OT. Carry on.
Raphael Lasar
Matawan, NJ
--
JJuggle - Last of the Dogmato-Revisionists
'6th Annual LBI Unithon - Sat, June 5, 2004'
(http://jjuggle.unicyclist.com/lbiunithon)
------------------------------------------------------------------------
JJuggle's Profile: http://www.unicyclist.com/profile/24
GILD
U-Turn wrote:
> *However, that line of thinking leads me to this: why not have a line
> of t-shirts: real men and women of unicycling. The jack t-shirt fits
please tell me u're not seriously suggesting a cartoon version of the
famous harper-on-the-picnic-table pic?!?:eek: (now if someone had done a
cartoon-style interpretation of that pic and put greg's face on a
reclining, buxom body in blue leotard, THAT would've been satire i could
buy into)toddw9 wrote:
> *Orysia *
no ofense to your friend but that sounds like a skin condition:p
--
GILD - Waffle-tosser (ocfopgm)
'They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.-- Benjamin Franklin,
HistoricalReview of Pennsylvania, 1759
' (http://www.soaw.org/new/newswire_detail.php?id=413)'[image:
http://www.addis-welt.de/smilie/smilie/sp/84255.gif]'
(http://tinyurl.com/ywxgb)'what's this?'
(http://www.outwar.com/page.php?x=2055415)
Namaste!
Dave
------------------------------------------------------------------------
GILD's Profile: http://www.unicyclist.com/profile/657
Darren
Time to reorder the shirts as I am out of some sizes and have people
waiting.
They will be ready next week.
Anyone wanting XXL ?
I have shipped them from Vancouver to Newfoundland and lots to the US.
I had a guy making sure she wasn't going to have pants for the second
printing.
(Don't worry, that will be the second appearance!
which won't be for at least 3 more designs.)
I had a guy say he wouldn't wear them and than I received a order for 4
of them !
I know some of these people getting them are married because I see their
spouses names on the cheques/checks !
Still looking for a few more names before sending out the shirt. Yoola
looks like it's it so far.
Darren
--
Darren - Bedford Unicycles
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Darren's Profile: http://www.unicyclist.com/profile/3989
Scott Kurland, RMT
> ... gynocentric feminism (the most current
> form) defines women's oppression as the devaluation and repression of
> women's experience by a masculine culture that exalts violence and
> individualism.
Violence and individualism should be exalted. There is nothing wrong with
exalting violence and individualism.
Exalt other stuff too, if you want.
> A definition of
> pornography is anything that separates the soul from the body.
Urk.
How about a definition for atheists?
> picture of the woman on the unicycle is only a body-just a sex object.
> There is nothing good about this portrayal of women. It is debasing,
> devaluing, and offensive because it represents the fact that people
> feel "fine" and "comfortable" objectifying women.
People objectify people every day, just to get through life with minimal
friction. I couldn't care less about the hopes and dreams of the Jiffy Lube
guys who're changing my oil, you know?
> We ought to value women as equals, value their experience.
Everyone is unequal.
> And it
> seems that the fact that this conversation is going on shows that
> there are definitely some of us who value women for who they are
> rather than the bodies they have of those of us who do not.
False dilemma.
Scott Kurland, RMT
> When is the female experience going to have a "complete and utter
> seperation [sic]" from the image of sex-object?
Never.
> That is not part of
> the female experience, that is an artificially imposed method for
> women to feel some sort of power in their lives, when it actually is
> the exact opposite.
What do you mean, artificially?
bugman
Scott Kurland, RMT wrote:
Scott were you been? Glad your back, I can always use a good dose of
Scott.
wentz wrote:
> @Mc: Don't worry about Scott. He's already proven that he derives joy
> from the suffering of others. Luckily, if everyone ingores him for a
> while, he usually goes away for a year or so.
> [/B]
Thanks for bringing that thread back up. I needed to smile.
:D
--
bugman - Professional Assasin
forget_your_life wrote:
> *dude i like your video's and think that your most likely a cool guy
> in person but why do you have to be such a jack-ass online? *
------------------------------------------------------------------------
bugman's Profile: http://www.unicyclist.com/profile/3812
Darren
Another story about naming that girl...
I was picking up some Chinese food tonight when I came across a girl who
worked at the last T-shirt shop I delt with. She was waiting with
another
girl for their food as well.
She asked me how the competition went. I told her very well. She said
she drove by my shop the other day and was wondering how many people
could ride a unicycle. I told her there are thousands of people who ride
all over the world. I also told her most people get into mountain
unicycling these days. She was quite surprised to hear mountain and
unicycling in the same sentance.
I started looking for a Toronto Unicyclists card to show her. The front
of the club card has a picture of Carl Hoyer on his Muni. I didn't have
one with me so I showed her a picture of the new
Bedford Unicycles card with that girl on it.
I asked her what she thought the name of that girl should be... right
away her friend said
Betty ! Betty Bedford !
I was again very shocked at the name they said as it is also one I heard
before and is one on the list already. Very freaky for sure.
I don't hear Betty very often or even know a Betty.
Another note:
I meet with the artist again next week for the 3rd design. It takes a
while for him to draw it but I will have shirts made as soon as I get
the disc from him. Hopefully in a couple weeks I will release the 3rd in
the series.
Stay tuned !
Darren
--
Darren - Bedford Unicycles
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Darren's Profile: http://www.unicyclist.com/profile/3989
hopeful
Okay, so the first thing I noticed, was her hair. I thought to myself
"wow. that betty has great hair!" (it really was, that's not the
satire.) The second thing was her awesome Bedford Unicycles T-shirt
that that betty is sporting, since we all know that Darren Bedford is
the man, I was wondering how I could get my paws on one of those for my
girlfriend. The third thing I noticed was the awesome Bedford
Unicycle.
Only then did i notice that she was wearing some newfangled type of
trials short that I've just got to find, due to its
non-movement-restricting qualities. Who makes those, anyway?
now that my satire is over, onto buisness...
I view the shirt design as a satire on the whole "sex sells" point, much
like Muniracer on page '3'
(http://www.unicyclist.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=30820&perpage=15&pagenumber=3)
as much as we would like to think, even scantily clad women on unicycles
are NOT going to influence the general public to spend hours of their
time to learn how to do something that, as much as we would like for it
not to be, is still considered "circusy" and "dorky"
You must also consider the fact that this post was intended to be an
advertisment for Darren's new shirts, and while he may be a bit miffed
over us shooting down his design, must concede the point that 8 pages
worth of posts over 1 week probably means that a fair number of people
have seen the design, and the people that were going to buy it anyway
are still going to buy it.
Mind you, that I, myself, am a feminist (yes, I'm male...no, I'm not
gay), but I am not a sexist. To me, sexism is like saying 'oh...well,
you're a girl, but that's all right, you can play with us anyway, even
though you're obviously inferior.'
Feminism is about respecting the strength of the Woman as an independent
being. Feminism is about being who you are and doing what you want to
do. It's very much like punk rock, it's saying "something is wrong with
the system and here's what I'm gong to do about it." Feminism is NOT
saying... oh, well, that T-shirt has a unicycle AND a beautiful Woman on
it, so it is obviously sexist.
Feminism is respecting women not because they're Women, but because
they're human, because anything a man can do, a Woman can do better.
Feminism is a branch of humanism that focuses on breaking the barriers
that we, as a society (in the US, at least, I can't speak for other
nations) have formed.
Strength is beauty. Confidence is beauty. Trust is the most beautiful
thing out there, because Love is based on Trust. If a Woman (cartoon,
real, or otherwise) has Physical beauty AND Mental beauty, more power to
her. We can't judge the woman on the T-shirt (Betty, I think her name
is) on Mental beauty because she is a two-dimensional rendering of the
Idea of woman based on the artist's experience with actual Women.
So all we can do is say yes, Betty has these characteristics, because
the Idea of Woman held by the artist was undoubtedly formed by some of
the influential Women in his life...perhaps a sister or sisters, maybe a
mother or at some point a mother figure, a female teacher, a friend who
cared, a girlfriend or girlfriends.
My point is this: Can we not appreciate a well-designed t-shirt with a
Unicycle AND a two dimensional rendering of a Beautiful Woman simply
because we are insecure over our ability or inability to cope with what
the MEDIA tries to force down our throats.
Matt
--
hopeful - revelling in the glory of 700c
a sawzall...!? why not just use an axe. -- Jagur
Long live the Lotus -- Mojoe
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hopeful's Profile: http://www.unicyclist.com/profile/4470
forget_your_life
john_childs wrote:
> *
> According to an 'online slang dictionary'
> (http://haute.hypermart.net/c1/slang.htm#B) Betty is slang for an
> attractive female.
>
> According to a 'mountain bike slang dictionary'
> (http://www.isu.edu/~nickbenj/bike/mtbdic.htm) Betty is slang for any
> female rider. *
yeah,and all that comes from the Flintstones...you know Barney Rubbles
wife?
how about Beddy Bedford?or is that to close to yet another stigma? if it
isnt,im sure the A.C.L.U will be glad to get involved in this endless
debate,only to be seddled out of court for a for a non-disclosed sum.
--
forget_your_life - a.k.a. jagur
[image:
http://www.unicyclist.com/gallery/albums/albup23/sigsize_003.gif]
[image:
http://www.unicyclist.com/gallery/albums/albup23/bunnyjumping.gif]
dream one dream many....
*'R.I.P' (http://tinyurl.com/vr86)*
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forget_your_life's Profile: http://www.unicyclist.com/profile/4558
GILD
hopeful wrote:
> *My point is this: Can we not appreciate a well-designed t-shirt with
> a Unicycle AND a two dimensional rendering of a Beautiful Woman simply
> because we are insecure over our ability or inability to cope with
shouldn't the point be about our ability/inability to stand up for what
we believe to be right/wrong ::despite:: what's being forced down our
throats by the media?
Bubbles, the girl on the uni's name should be Bubbles
--
GILD - Waffle-tosser (ocfopgm)
'They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.-- Benjamin Franklin,
HistoricalReview of Pennsylvania, 1759
' (http://www.soaw.org/new/newswire_detail.php?id=413)'[image:
http://www.addis-welt.de/smilie/smilie/sp/84255.gif]'
(http://tinyurl.com/ywxgb)'what's this?'
(http://www.outwar.com/page.php?x=2055415)
Namaste!
Dave
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GILD's Profile: http://www.unicyclist.com/profile/657
Scott Kurland, RMT
> Scott Kurland, RMT wrote:
>> *paco wrote:
>>
>>> When is the female experience going to have a "complete and utter
>>> seperation [sic]" from the image of sex-object?
>>
>> Never.
>>
>>> That is not part of
>>> the female experience, that is an artificially imposed method for
>>> women to feel some sort of power in their lives, when it actually
>> is
>>> the exact opposite.
>>
>> What do you mean, artificially?
>> *
>
>
>
> Scott were you been? Glad your back, I can always use a good dose of
> Scott.
Brazilian jujitsu ate my free time. Now that I'm doing tournaments, though, I
gotta do more cardio, so back to Grendel.
> wentz wrote:
>> @Mc: Don't worry about Scott. He's already proven that he derives joy
>> from the suffering of others.
That's a reason not to worry? ;-)
wentz
Scott Kurland, RMT wrote:
> *That's a reason not to worry? ;-)
> *
Only time will tell. My opinion of you has been formed by a couple of
past threads that didn't really create a positive first impression. I am
still fairly naieve about the world, and I refuse to believe that anyone
who unicycles could hold the views you expressed in those threads.
Therefore, I have to assume you enjoy being reactionary, and there's no
point worrying about someone who's only trying to get a rise out of
you.
hopeful wrote:*Feminism is respecting women not
> because they're Women, but because they're human, because anything a
> man can do, a Woman can do better.*
First, while it's wrong to assume that men are better than women, it's
equally wrong to assume women are better than men. Statements like the
one quoted above tend to make people lose respect for any sort of gender
equality movement.
Second, if you're going to use feminist cliches that hurt the cause, you
really should be using the word 'Womyn'.
Third, anyone who was truly concerned about gender equality would be far
more concerned about the segregation of public restrooms than about some
silly little t-shirt. Unless "seperate but equal" works after all...
Sorry 'bout all that, but I'm in a funky mood lately, and low-quality
feminism annoys me.
Rob
--
wentz - Not Injured (yet...)
"I hate broccoli, and yet, in a certain sense, I am broccoli." - The
Tick
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wentz's Profile: http://www.unicyclist.com/profile/4563
johnfoss
hopeful wrote:
> *Feminism is respecting women not because they're Women, but because
> Feminism is a branch of humanism that focuses on breaking the barriers
> that we, as a society (in the US, at least, I can't speak for other
Strike the "better," and call me a feminist too. Or don't strike it, as
you choose. But I believe in the "equal potential" part.
I change my vote to Betty. If Darren's counting these. I like the
mountain biking designation, and the way it works with Bedford.
I also like Wentz's idea of Anita. It's subliminal advertising: "Anita
Bedford." Gotta have one. Or one more.
--
johnfoss - Home of the Garage Page
John Foss, the Uni-Cyclone
"jfoss" at "unicycling.com"
www.unicycling.com
"Don't let gravity get you down."
------------------------------------------------------------------------
johnfoss's Profile: http://www.unicyclist.com/profile/832
Jayne ZA
After all this talk about feminism, I thought I should post my favourite
definition of feminim.
> I myself have never been able to find out precisely what feminism is:
> I only know that people call me a feminist whenever I express
> sentiments that differentiate me from a doormat. ~Rebecca West, 1913
Please note the date. The scary thing is that this is just as true
today, 90 years later.
> - originally posted by Sofa -
> (no points to the guesser of these origins)
May I assume that Mrs Sofa had a look at the shirt and made these
suggestions?
Jayne
--
Jayne ZA - Learning to ride on a Coker
Being a statistician means never having to say you're certain
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Jayne ZA's Profile: http://www.unicyclist.com/profile/4878
Klaas Bil
>Betty ! Betty Bedford !
Reminiscent of Betty Boop in more than one way.
Klaas Bil - Newsgroup Addict
--
"Heck, even my toes were aching from trying to grip the soles of my shoes! - Tommy Thompson"
paco
Okay, I've kept my mouth shut for a while. It's time to open it again.
There are some personal views and insigths about these arguments I'd
like to share.
hopeful wrote:
> I view the shirt design as a satire on the whole "sex sells"
> point...
>
> ...So all we can do is say yes, Betty has these characteristics,
> because the Idea of Woman held by the artist was undoubtedly formed by
> some of the influential Women in his life...perhaps a sister or
> sisters, maybe a mother or at some point a mother figure, a female
> teacher, a friend who cared, a girlfriend or girlfriends.
Your argument got fuzzy here. Are you saying that it was satire or that
Darren was trying to depict someone with genuine beauty? These two
things are mutually exclusive, unless you're saying that those mirrored
girls on mud flaps have inner beauty as well.
>
> You must also consider the fact that this post was intended to be an
> advertisment for Darren's new shirts...
And in that, he succeeded. I hope he didn't get too miffed about us
criticizing them. If you're going to open a can of worms (even
unintentionally), you have to pay the consequences. It's part of being
an adult. And if more people go buy those shirts because of these
arguments, they obviously weren't the ones I was trying to reach. My
target audience is those who didn't have a concrete position on this
issue. Hopefully someone will decide that it's wrong after all. I used
to be anti-feminist because no one had explained it to me very well. I
thought feminism meant man-bashing. But because of my studies, I have
seen what true feminism is, and I now stand up for what I believe in (if
you didn't already catch that part). ;)
> Feminism is respecting women not because they're Women, but because
> they're human, because anything a man can do, a Woman can do better.
> Feminism is a branch of humanism that focuses on breaking the barriers
> that we, as a society (in the US, at least, I can't speak for other
> nations) have formed.
Actually, humanism and feminism were the same thing. If you read MC's
original post, you'll see that Humanism refers to late 19th century
Feminism. Feminism IS about respecting women because they are women.
The male experience is different from the female experience. Men are
biologically different from women. Women can bear children. They have
different external organs than men. They have different internal organs
as well. They go through a menstrual cycle each month which prepares
their bodies to have children, and in the process, causes bloating,
water retention, cramps, mood swings, etc. Not all of these things
happen to each woman, but you catch my drift.
Men don't go through these things. Does this make men better? No.
Does it make men and women different? Yes. The female experience is
biologically different from the male experience, and no man is ever
going to experience what it's like to be female. The big problem with
humanism (and why it isn't used by "true" feminists today) is that it
says that we should stop treating women like inferior animals and start
treating them as human. It sounds good initially. The problem is that
the default human they talk about is male. Men and women are different,
and should allowed to be different. Neither experience is inferior to
the other, but each is different. Criticize me if you will, but this is
the academic definition of humanism and feminism.
> Strength is beauty. Confidence is beauty. Trust is the most
> beautiful thing out there, because Love is based on Trust. If a Woman
> (cartoon, real, or otherwise) has Physical beauty AND Mental beauty,
> more power to her. We can't judge the woman on the T-shirt (Betty, I
> think her name is) on Mental beauty because she is a two-dimensional
> rendering of the Idea of woman based on the artist's experience with
> actual Women.
>
> So all we can do is say yes, Betty has these characteristics, because
> the Idea of Woman held by the artist was undoubtedly formed by some of
> the influential Women in his life...perhaps a sister or sisters, maybe
> a mother or at some point a mother figure, a female teacher, a friend
> who cared, a girlfriend or girlfriends.
If the artist's homage to women in his life boil down to this one image,
I feel sorry for him. I think his idea was, "Let's draw a hot girl on a
unicycle." I don't think he cared about inner beauty.
--
paco - Co-Founder of the PacoGild Movement
I'm having trouble thinking cognitively.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
paco's Profile: http://www.unicyclist.com/profile/3715
Darren
Paco
I believe men and women are equal. Nither is better than the other.
I stand up for things I believe in as well...
Not selling giraffe unicycles without welding the sprockets... Not
selling unicycles with lollypop bearing holders... Not selling
United/Norco style unicycle seats... Etc...
I think I am the only unicycle shop doing so.
Thousands of them get sold... just check out e-bay.
I can't stop the factories from making them...
or stop the shops from selling them...
I just do my part by not offering them.
Brian
Were you still been on the Hook-up's site when you picked those names...
?!
At this time, I would say that girls name will be
Betty.
Not because I really like that name or because I think she looks like a
Betty.
I picked it because of John Childs post with these two comments: any
female rider and an attractive female. She's both !
I will be sending a shirt to chirokid and John Childs for helping pick
the name.
Please send me your address's and shirt size so I can send them out on
Monday. Thanks to all for the posts.
As a additional offer to anyone who has posted to this thread so far...
I will pay the shipping if you order a shirt. Either Betty or Jack !
darren at bedfordunicycles . ca
Darren
--
Darren - Bedford Unicycles
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Darren's Profile: http://www.unicyclist.com/profile/3989
dubmuni2004
Oh yeah, I am definently guna buy this one. finally I can get a uni
t-shirt that is cool enough to wear to school
--
dubmuni2004
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dubmuni2004's Profile: http://www.unicyclist.com/profile/5837
unipsychogirl
Dylan Wallinger wrote:
"Hey Darren,
Those shirts rock! I'll be buying one of those for sure. I can't wait to
see what you come out with next.
-Dylan"
Yeah Dylan, IF you actually bought the "Uni-Porn chick" T-shirt, how do
you think Lauren would like that? hmm? I dunno whether you guys are
still dating or not, but as a female "chick" I was a bit apalled when I
saw that graphic...and even more after I clicked on the "View Full Size"
button!! I know a lot of girl/women unicyclists who would not like that
T-shirt and probably not even want it to be sold...
As the producer of the first-ever EXtreme Unicycling movie starring an
all-female cast, I feel the responsibility to take a stand and say
something. (although, I do have to admit that it might be FUNNY to poke
fun at the shirt by having a scene in the movie where one of us girls
rides by a strip club with that shirt on.)
But I, for one, would not wear that shirt out in public, or at all,
especially while I was unicycling. In my opinion, it stereotypes and
associates female, may I say, "sluts", with unicycling, and, I think
that that is much worse than the all-too-common association with clowns
and unicycles. If we ever want to get unicycling into the X-Games or the
Olympics but go around representing unicycling as a sport in this
fashion, then just wait 'till unicycling DOES get into the X-Games, and
the very few girls out there that ride street, Trials, mountain, or
flatland have just abandoned unicycling alltogether. However, I have to
admit that this T-shirt and other remarks made about girls and
unicycling (such as the guy who wrote something along the lines of,
"Girls in chain-mail bikini's jousting on unicycles...now THAT's
something I'd like to see") only inspire me more to continue filming my
movie, just to prove that we can and will be strong when others question
what we're doing.
I have met Darren Bedford and even partipated in his well-known tattoo
contest, I was among the first to do so, but even I stopped when people
started putting the tattoo's on their various inappropriate body parts.
He is, from what I've seen of him, a very nice guy who is very into his
sport, but I think that he may have gotten a little too much into it
with this T-shirt, or, what I like to call it, sluT-shirt. Some people
like to poke fun at things, and I understand that, but I know that from
now on I will always think of that T-shirt graphic, even for just a
millisecond, whenever I look at my unicycle, because my unicycle looks
quite similar to the one in the graphjc (I have a KH 20"), and, when I
met Darren, my hair was almost that same color. I would like to know if
Darren modeled that shirt graphic after any particular female
unicyclist. I am one of very few extreme female unicyclists out there
with regard to Trials or street. And there are even a few dozen MORE
female MUnicyclists and flatlanders in the world that would probably
find it offensive. Not to mention all the other female unicyclists out
there, male unicyclists, and even their audiences.
***GUYS: HOW WOULD YOU LIKE THERE TO BE A T-SHIRT OUT THERE WITH A
DETAILED GRAPHIC OF YOU IN A THONG/UNDERWEAR!?!?***
All of my friends, family, and unicycling friends whom I have showed
this T-shirt were appalled and disgusted with what they saw. :(
Well, I've got to go work on arranging songs for my all-girls extreme
unicycling movie, and I hope you guys out there enjoy watching hot
chicks doing extreme unicycle tricks, cuz we ARE!! (lol)
--
unipsychogirl - Trials chicka
~Sara C. (unicyc...@hotmail.com) (A.I.M. S.N: unipsychogirl)
)--O
"Real women don't need TWO wheels!" ~Sara C. to female BMX posers
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unipsychogirl's Profile: http://www.unicyclist.com/profile/4356
bugman
unipsychogirl wrote:
> *
> ***GUYS: HOW WOULD YOU LIKE THERE TO BE A T-SHIRT OUT THERE WITH A
> DETAILED GRAPHIC OF YOU IN A THONG/UNDERWEAR!?!?***
>
That would be great! Can I be the model! I guess you never saw that
sexy shot of Harper that was even turned into tattoo. If you need one
let me know, I think I still have some from NAUCC 2003. I don't know,
but maybe if I wore a thong while unicycling I might be a little more
uptight.
PS Look forward to your DVD.
--
bugman - Survivor 2004 Wolfman Duathalon
"It is the soldier, not the reporter who has given us the freedom of the
press. It is the soldier, not the poet, who has given us the freedom of
speech. It is the soldier, not the campus organizer, who gives us the
freedom to demonstrate. It is the soldier who salutes the flag, who
serves beneath the flag, and whose coffin is draped by the flag, who
allows the protester to burn the flag."
~Father Dennis Edward O'Brien, Sergeant, USMC
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bugman's Profile: http://www.unicyclist.com/profile/3812
Darren
Sara
Thanks for the post. Sorry the shirt offended you.
The shirt was drawn by a comic book artist. That girl on the shirt is
totally his drawing, not a real person at all. The colour of the hair is
to match the unicycle and shirt. The Bedford logo colour has always been
orange and black.
The unicycle is a Bedford Hard Core Trials unicycle. That is a real
unicycle that was given to him to use as a reference.
He drew and added the girl totally on his own.
The next time Betty appears, she will have more than a bikini bottom on.
It will be much more tasteful.
Not all females feel the same way you do. I have sold lots to females
who do wear them.
I never intended to offend anyone. Unfortunately some people have
been.
I just received the 3rd shirt in the series
today !!! It is a Hard Core Mountain Unicycle
shirt that will first be available at the Ottawa Unicycle Invasion this
week-end.
I will post pictures next week. Being into the extreme sport side of
unicycling, I'm sure you will like this one.
If I remember correctly, you are the girl who raised those little furry
hampster-like critters.
I was and still am very impressed with girls who ride trails and Muni.
I'm sure I must have mentioned that to you.
I would like to order your video. Please let me know when it is ready.
If you are looking for someone to sell them for you, I would like to add
it to the list I sell now in my shop.
Can't wait to check it out.
Darren
--
Darren - Bedford Unicycles
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Darren's Profile: http://www.unicyclist.com/profile/3989
unipsychogirl
Okay like so I feel like really stupid right now about that first
comment I made to Dylan...I totally should not have assumed what words
would come out of Lauren's mouth, that was wrong, and I'm totally
talking like like a Valley Girl. sorry
You see, I only read the first whole page of this post before I wrote
that first comment, and then, turns out, Lauren responded. More power to
ya!!
However, I STILL think that girls (females) need to take a stand and
make their mark in the extreme unicycling world. I mean, I think that I
have made unicycling be seen as a girl's sport to most of the people who
have seen me perform over the past 9 or 10 years that I have unicycled.
All of my friends support me in what I do, most of them are
skateboarders and we get made fun of when we go out to skate parks or
whatever, but now due to some of your comments I know think that they
might say this cuz we actually do suck at our chosen sports! And, at
least for me, I feel that I DO suck, compared to others (all males) in
this sport. I mean, sure, I can grind and do 5-foot-drops, but so what?
a lot of people can...I don't know of any OTHER GIRLS who can grind but
I know that there are a lot of girls out there that are better than me
in some aspects of unicycling. My movie is not out of human feminism,
but more out of liberal feminism...
Hey, Lauren (UniLaur): Would you be interested in being in the movie?
I've already got about 10 girls in it, but not many that are into
MUni...I've tried a time or two to contact you through sending you a
private message or whatever they call it on unicyclist.com, but I
haven't gotten any response. I'd really like you to be in the movie. Are
you sponsored yet???
I still think that the "uni-chic" T-shirt is kinda sick, but its a free
country, and, ya know, people should be able to expand unicycling as a
sport in any kind of tangent they want to. Just to let you guys know, I
will probably order the T-shirt from Darren soon (that is, if my mom
lets me!! hehe) but only to wear to funny, more laid-back events, like
fairs...however, I do birthday parties for little kids where I perform
on my uni, juggle, make balloon animals, and play my violin...and I
won't be wearing the shirt to a birthday party anytime soon!! (I'd be
fun, tho!)
So, I guess I stand a semi-reformed one-wheeled woman ooh that was
dumb........
--
unipsychogirl - Trials chicka
~Sara C. (unicyc...@hotmail.com) (A.I.M. S.N: unipsychogirl)
)--O
"Real women don't need TWO wheels!" ~Sara C. to female BMX posers
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unipsychogirl's Profile: http://www.unicyclist.com/profile/4356
unipsychogirl
Darren:
Thank-you very much for that last post!
Yes, Sara C. (that's me guys) is also know as the " 'possum girl "
Yeah, sure, that would be great if you could sell my movie. The post of
discussion on it is:
I have already contacted unicycle.com about the movie and possible
sponsorship but have not gotten a reply yet. Would you want to sponsor
it?
Thanx!
--
unipsychogirl - Trials chicka
~Sara C. (unicyc...@hotmail.com) (A.I.M. S.N: unipsychogirl)
)--O
"Real women don't need TWO wheels!" ~Sara C. to female BMX posers
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unipsychogirl's Profile: http://www.unicyclist.com/profile/4356
sabin_a.
Sara,
Your all girl trials/muni/freestyle movie will be a total hit! can't
wait for it to come out....... Are you thinking of setting up a little
trialer to give everyone a little taste?
-Sabin
--
sabin_a. - close to expert
"Is it possible to microwave a burrito so hot that god himself could not
eat it?"
'SIXSIXONE' (www.sixsixone.com)
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sabin_a.'s Profile: http://www.unicyclist.com/profile/4457
muniracer
sabin_a. wrote:
> *Sara,
>
> Your all girl trials/muni/freestyle movie will be a total hit! can't
> wait for it to come out....... Are you thinking of setting up a little
> trialer to give everyone a little taste?
>
i agree, news of new videos get me very excited. i wanna see something
soon.
:)
--
muniracer - Hell On Wheel
The Hell on Wheel Unicycle Gang owns you!!
http://www.unicyclist.com/gallery/albuq25
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muniracer's Profile: http://www.unicyclist.com/profile/4339
Klaas Bil
...a quite serious long monologue about why that shirt was
inappropriate (months after everyone else had finished discussing it).
Or at least it seemed quite serious until she concluded:
>Well, I've got to go work on arranging songs for my all-girls extreme
>unicycling movie, and I hope you guys out there enjoy watching hot
>chicks doing extreme unicycle tricks, cuz we ARE!! (lol)
So, which part was tongue in cheek? The lamentation or the conclusion?
Klaas Bil - Newsgroup Addict
--
be sure to remove the saddle and simply sit on the seat post. this is far more comfortable - tennisgh22 on the comfort of Savage unis
zod
Blah....
The shirt rocks........and that's coming from an old conservative grouch
:D
--
zod - Icey Hot Stunta(z)
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