Zverev & Shap - Making Tennis Great Again.

[Manco]

they will help save us from the sheer monotony of Federer/Nadal dominance.

They will win so much they will have us begging them to stop winning so much.

[The Iceberg]

On Saturday, 12 August 2017 05:36:48 UTC+1, Manco wrote:
> they will help save us from the sheer monotony of Federer/Nadal dominance.
>
> They will win so much they will have us begging them to stop winning so much.

LOL

[*skriptis]

Manco <musef...@gmail.com> Wrote in message:

> they will help save us from the sheer monotony of Federer/Nadal dominance.
>
> They will win so much they will have us begging them to stop winning so much.

Can't wait to see.
--


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[TennisGuy]

On 8/12/2017 12:36 AM, Manco wrote:
> they will help save us from the sheer monotony of Federer/Nadal dominance.
>
> They will win so much they will have us begging them to stop winning so much.
>

Cough cough.....


Well I just watched their debut match as rivals.

It remains to be seen just how their futures will play out.

But from what I saw in this match, this is my report.

First off, what a pleasure to see two players play as quietly as these
two. No intimidating, fake grunts etc.

Both players need to clean up unforced errors, especially Shap.
Double faults, to lose games? Come on!

Their styles are set.
Both play aggressively, Shap going for broke much more often than Zverev.

I like Zverev more than Shap.
Why?
He plays more percentage tennis. He thinks more on court.
Does not play impulsively like Shap.
His shots are more consistent than Shap's.

Both excellent movers/retrievers for such tall men.

Fun to watch, but not BIG four quality (not yet anyway).

[Carey]

Thanks for writing this. Shap will probably always go for more than the
very solid Zverev, but remember the kid is *eighteen*. If he can tighten
up the UEs I think he can go far. I like his deal.

[Court_1]

On Saturday, August 12, 2017 at 10:16:43 PM UTC-4, TennisGuy wrote:

> Both players need to clean up unforced errors, especially Shap.
> Double faults, to lose games? Come on!

You do realize he's only 18? He just managed to do what only a select group of players like Borg, Chang, etc were able to do as young teens, i.e.make it far at an ATP Masters 1000 level or greater tournament and he beat two grand slam winners (Del Potro and Nadal) to get there.

> Their styles are set.
> Both play aggressively, Shap going for broke much more often than Zverev.
>
> I like Zverev more than Shap.
> Why?
> He plays more percentage tennis. He thinks more on court.
> Does not play impulsively like Shap.
> His shots are more consistent than Shap's.

I think you have it backwards. I think Shap is more creative and thinks more on court whereas Zverev is more robotic.

> Both excellent movers/retrievers for such tall men.
>
> Fun to watch, but not BIG four quality (not yet anyway).

We'll see what they are capable of in the next little while. Certainly they are
more interesting to watch than Murrovic (especially Shap's tennis.)

[Tuan]

Once Zverev ceases to be a novelty he'll be exceedingly boring I'm afraid. Look at how many times he comes to the net in a match.

[Court_1]

On Sunday, August 13, 2017 at 10:26:16 AM UTC-4, Tuan wrote:


> Once Zverev ceases to be a novelty he'll be exceedingly boring I'm afraid. Look at how many times he comes to the net in a match.

I find Zverev's tennis kind of boring and robotic now but at least he goes for it and doesn't want to grind away and he seems to have big goals for himself. Shapovalov also is hugely motivated to win slams. He said this a few years ago:

"My dream has always been to become a top tennis player and winning Grand Slams. So, going to college is not my priority. I still think it is important to have a backup plan which is why I am working hard to finish high school. However, I will do everything I can to try to achieve my dream so I am not really thinking about going to college."

https://www.merchantoftennis.com/blogs/canadian-tennis/41215553-q-a-with-denis-shapovalov

That's what you need from these young players, i.e. they have to eat, drink and think tennis 24/7 and have to think BIG. Most of them are simply content to earn a few million and be at the top of the game but the ones who become GREAT become obsessed with the idea of winning slams and are comfortable with the attention and having the spotlight on them. Both Zverev and Shapovalov seem to be that way. We'll see how it works out for them.

[Carey]

Shap sounds like a nice kid with a solid team behind him. It was nice to see
that photo of him with Fed! A prediction: Shap starts serving *very* big, soon.

[Court_1]

On Sunday, August 13, 2017 at 11:19:01 AM UTC-4, Carey wrote:

> Shap sounds like a nice kid with a solid team behind him. It was nice to see
> that photo of him with Fed! A prediction: Shap starts serving *very* big, soon.

+1. I'm all in on team Shap.

[SliceAndDice]

Gilbert said yesterday that he thinks Shap has the best lefty serve for his size that he has seen since Johnny Mac.

[SliceAndDice]

The encouraging thing for Shap is that even though he played his worst match of his week, he still almost took it to three.

Shap looks and behaves like a typical 18 year old, is streaky, impatient and while he has good instincts at the net, has questionable technique. In other words, if he puts together a good team to work on all this and is sufficiently driven, sky's the limit for this lad. Sascha on the other hand, like Nadal, arrived on tour a much more polished product. In Saschas case, I suspect that traveling with his brother and parents on tour has given him maturity and perspective, and he therefore comes across as older and wiser than his 20 years.

[Carey]

On Sunday, August 13, 2017 at 9:39:01 AM UTC-7, SliceAndDice wrote:
> Gilbert said yesterday that he thinks Shap has the best lefty serve for his size that he has seen since Johnny Mac.

Interesting from BG, I had not heard that. Kid's still growing, I imagine.

Shap wants to move forward on the court. Encouraging.

[TennisGuy]

On 8/13/2017 10:08 AM, Court_1 wrote:
> On Saturday, August 12, 2017 at 10:16:43 PM UTC-4, TennisGuy wrote:
>

>> I like Zverev more than Shap. Why? He plays more percentage tennis.
>> He thinks more on court. Does not play impulsively like Shap. His
>> shots are more consistent than Shap's.
>
> I think you have it backwards. I think Shap is more creative and
> thinks more on court whereas Zverev is more robotic.

You see black, I see white.

Did you think Mecir was robot-like too?

I prefer watching players who are calm and collected and let their
rackets do the talking, like Mecir, Edberg, Lendl, Sampras, Federer etc.

Shap is just a little too excitable for my tastes.

You like Shap because he's:

- Canadian
- Handsome (to you)
- Has game
- Is emotional (not like a robot)
- Was able to beat aging slammers like Del Po and Nadal.

[Court_1]

On Sunday, August 13, 2017 at 2:04:18 PM UTC-4, TennisGuy wrote:


> Did you think Mecir was robot-like too?

I have no thoughts on Mecir. I didn't watch him enough to care one way or another.

> I prefer watching players who are calm and collected and let their
> rackets do the talking, like Mecir, Edberg, Lendl, Sampras, Federer etc.

Shapovalov is calm on court? What are you watching? He's more calm than Zverev is(Zverev is fist pumping like a fiend after every point) and he definitely lets his racket do the talking. He has tons of flair.

I like players who have a pleasing tennis style and have charisma, players who not only have the tennis aesthetics but aren't bland lumps personality-wise and who can speak an intelligible sentence off court and who can be potential leaders of the sport and be good ambassadors.

> Shap is just a little too excitable for my tastes.

How so? What has he done (other than that incident with the ump) that makes him appear excitable on court?

> You like Shap because he's:
>
> - Canadian
> - Handsome (to you)
> - Has game
> - Is emotional (not like a robot)
> - Was able to beat aging slammers like Del Po and Nadal.

I like Shap because I like his tennis style(he has flair and elegance), his demeanor on court, his will to do BiG things and his ease(seemingly) in the limelight.

[Carey]

The kid is, again, eighteen. If he was not excited at his age and present position I would be worried for him. I like his bit of exuberance and hope
he does not go corporate like the rest (Kyrgios and, occasionally, Murray excepted).

[Court_1]

On Sunday, August 13, 2017 at 3:09:41 PM UTC-4, Carey wrote:
> The kid is, again, eighteen. If he was not excited at his age and present position I would be worried for him. I like his bit of exuberance and hope
> he does not go corporate like the rest (Kyrgios and, occasionally, Murray excepted).

He'll definitely go corporate and he should go corporate. The goal for him should be to make as much money as possible in a career that has a short shelf life. The CDN tennis commentators were saying he's being flooded with endorsement offers. His life will change. You just hope he can stay somewhat grounded and continue to think BIG.

[Carey]

On Sunday, August 13, 2017 at 12:18:26 PM UTC-7, Court_1 wrote:

>
> He'll definitely go corporate and he should go corporate. The goal for him should be to make as much money as possible in a career that has a short shelf life. The CDN tennis commentators were saying he's being flooded with endorsement offers. His life will change. You just hope he can stay somewhat grounded and continue to think BIG.

That is certainly one approach!

[TennisGuy]

On 8/13/2017 2:53 PM, Court_1 wrote:
> On Sunday, August 13, 2017 at 2:04:18 PM UTC-4, TennisGuy wrote:
>
>
>> Did you think Mecir was robot-like too?
>
> I have no thoughts on Mecir. I didn't watch him enough to care one
> way or another.
>
>> I prefer watching players who are calm and collected and let their
>> rackets do the talking, like Mecir, Edberg, Lendl, Sampras,
>> Federer etc.
>
> Shapovalov is calm on court? What are you watching? He's more calm
> than Zverev is

I think you should go back and read what I said.
I didn't say Shap is calm. He is more excitable than Zverev
and shows his emotions more readily than Zverev.

> I like players who have a pleasing tennis style and have charisma,
> players who not only have the tennis aesthetics but aren't bland
> lumps personality-wise and who can speak an intelligible sentence off
> court and who can be potential leaders of the sport and be good
> ambassadors.

Judging by how the two (Shap and Zverev) conducted themselves in their
last two on-court interviews/speeches there's no question in my mind
that Zverev is the one with more between his ears.

He produced an excellent speech and presence at the Rogers trophy ceremony.

>
>> Shap is just a little too excitable for my tastes.
>
> How so? What has he done (other than that incident with the ump) that
> makes him appear excitable on court?

Too much machismo display after points won.
Just smile and move on to the next point.

> I like Shap because I like his tennis style(he has flair and
> elegance), his demeanor on court, his will to do BiG things and his
> ease(seemingly) in the limelight.

Shap is OK, but I prefer Zverev's on court demeanor.

[Tuan]

Shapo will always be a pleasure to watch as long as they don't try to make him into Sascha no.2.

[TennisGuy]

On 8/12/2017 12:36 AM, Manco wrote:

> they will help save us from the sheer monotony of Federer/Nadal dominance.
>
> They will win so much they will have us begging them to stop winning so much.
>

Something that hasn't been mentioned here yet...

Even if we ignore Fed's injury in the finals, Shap gave
Zverev a much harder time in Montreal.

The 'final' was really the semi-final.

Not surprising, but something to think about going forward.

[Carey]

Yeah, we might be seeing a changing of the guard, what with Shapovalov's
big win over Nadal and Zverev's demolition of Federer, who was making no
dent in Zverev's game even before RF's apparent injury.

[Carey]

Sascha's play is sometimes reminding me of Safin, with his ability to push even
the top guys around on the court. Can he do it in a Major?

[Court_1]

Federer wasn't making a dent in his game vs Zverev because Federer wasn't himself even before the injury. He simply wasn't dialed in in Montreal for whatever reasons. I don't think Zverev will beat a fit/motivated Fed in best of five at the USO if they should meet.

[Court_1]

On Monday, August 14, 2017 at 2:06:20 PM UTC-4, Carey wrote:
> Sascha's play is sometimes reminding me of Safin, with his ability to push even
> the top guys around on the court. Can he do it in a Major?

Yes, Zverev reminds me a bit of Safin too but less creative than Safin and more of a ball-basher than Safin. He's more focused than Safin was so that's a plus for Zverev.

Eventually Zverev will win a major no doubt but I don't think he's ready to win this USO. Let's see the draw first.

[Carey]

That was part of it, I agree. Fed looked distracted all week. Next meeting should be interesting.