Ravi Shankar's daughter

[soccerfan777]

Indian classical... *dipshit would say it sucks... but then he has no taste and is a born loser.

She is beautiful and yet so talented. The second song is her dad's tune. What do the Indians in the forum think?

This is not all about her... the other musicians are brilliant as well. This is a fusion of North Indian Hindustani classical (sitar) and South Indian Carnatic classical (violin).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2QMH_9EzNDo

137k views... not bad. And a lot of comments by non-Indians.

[bob]

nice

bob

[soccerfan777]

Your comment came within 14 minutes and that performaces was 22 minutes long. Something says to me you didnt listen to that whole thing.

[bob]

On Sun, 28 Oct 2018 18:35:15 -0700 (PDT), soccerfan777
<zepf...@gmail.com> wrote:

>Your comment came within 14 minutes and that performaces was 22 minutes long. Something says to me you didnt listen to that whole thing.

i could tell after 3 mins i liked it. i listened to it all.

bob

[SliceAndDice]

As someone who listens to a lot of Hindustani classical, I think Anushka is a terrible artist. Beautiful and very good at marketing, yes. If you would like to listen to a great sitar maestro, listen to Nikhil Banerjee for instance. Immense depth in his music. A short clip: https://youtu.be/ZDKrFcFIfm8

[The Iceberg]

she should be making protest songs against that hugely offensive giant Patel statue!!

[The Iceberg]

On Monday, 29 October 2018 01:35:17 UTC, soccerfan777 wrote:
> Your comment came within 14 minutes and that performaces was 22 minutes long. Something says to me you didnt listen to that whole thing.

hahhahah sorry this did make me laugh! :D

[soccerfan777]

Oh god not again. I have listened to Nikhil Banerjee. He is a traditionalist. Even Ravi Shankar was too modern for him and his fans. These Nikhil Banerjee fans seem to be a bit cunty.

Honestly I tend to like artists who like to try something different. If you want Anoushka play close to traditional listen to Live At Carnegie hall from 2001. I think that is her best album. Her fusion album Traveller for which she was touring and performing in that video is also good, if not great.

[SliceAndDice]

On Monday, October 29, 2018 at 7:24:24 AM UTC-4, soccerfan777 wrote:
> Oh god not again. I have listened to Nikhil Banerjee. He is a traditionalist.

Duh..it is called classical music for a reason. Implies a certain adherence to tradition.

Even Ravi Shankar was too modern for him and his fans. These Nikhil Banerjee fans seem to be a bit cunty.

OK. You solicit opinions and when an opinion is given, you choose to call them "cunty". Remind you of a certain someone you seem to detest?

> Honestly I tend to like artists who like to try something different.

You are conflating two things here, so I will separate them. One is willingness to experiment outside the realm of classical music in the form of fusion music etc. Not my favorite genre, but I am not opposed to it. The other is artistic ability. Remember, being technically accomplished in playing a sitar does not necessarily make one a great sitar vaadak. Being a great artist has many more dimensions, some of them undefinable. Ravi Shankar is not my favorite but he was undoubtedly a great artist. Bombay Jayashree has experimented with many more forms than Anoushka but I would not ever call her anything but a brilliant artist. Anoushka is a different story. She is a mediocre artist riding on the coattails of her famous father, photogenic looks and great marketing skills. To people who are serious listeners to Hindustani music, it is easy to spot that she is a fraud. Nikhil Banerjee (to me) represents the apogee of sitar vaadan, hence I presented him to you as an example. But there are many, many artists who are superior to Anoushka and do not have the same recognition.

If you want Anoushka play close to traditional listen to Live At Carnegie hall from 2001. I think that is her best album. Her fusion album Traveller for which she was touring and performing in that video is also good, if not great.

I have listened to her play, and thought she sucked.

[soccerfan777]

On Monday, October 29, 2018 at 10:11:36 AM UTC-5, SliceAndDice wrote:
> On Monday, October 29, 2018 at 7:24:24 AM UTC-4, soccerfan777 wrote:
> > Oh god not again. I have listened to Nikhil Banerjee. He is a traditionalist.
> Duh..it is called classical music for a reason. Implies a certain adherence to tradition.

What Anoushka is doing is Indian classical fusion. And it is not something new. Zakir Hussain and L Shankar did with John McLaughlin back in the 70s. Listen to this album... their best.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s6O-Z_x_-Pk&list=PL5nEJrhjTDN7DHbbfovQ75Ml79Bovs4wT

>
> Even Ravi Shankar was too modern for him and his fans. These Nikhil Banerjee fans seem to be a bit cunty.
>
> OK. You solicit opinions and when an opinion is given, you choose to call them "cunty". Remind you of a certain someone you seem to detest?

LOL... I was joking. And I was talking about you.

>
>
>
> > Honestly I tend to like artists who like to try something different.
>
> You are conflating two things here, so I will separate them. One is willingness to experiment outside the realm of classical music in the form of fusion music etc. Not my favorite genre, but I am not opposed to it.

Its not my favorite either... I honestly like Indian classical without fusion better. But I am open minded and if it is done well, I like it.

> The other is artistic ability. Remember, being technically accomplished in playing a sitar does not necessarily make one a great sitar vaadak. Being a great artist has many more dimensions, some of them undefinable. Ravi Shankar is not my favorite but he was undoubtedly a great artist.

> Bombay Jayashree has experimented with many more forms than Anoushka but I would not ever call her anything but a brilliant artist.

I havent heard her. What instrument does she play.

>Anoushka is a different story. She is a mediocre artist riding on the coattails of her famous father, photogenic looks and great marketing skills.

Total BS. She performed with Ravi Shankar many times and he himself taught her for many years. If he thought she was mediocre he might still promote her because she is his daughter but would have never allowed her as a co-sitarist in his own albums and concerts.

> To people who are serious listeners to Hindustani music, it is easy to spot that she is a fraud. Nikhil Banerjee (to me) represents the apogee of sitar vaadan, hence I presented him to you as an example. But there are many, many artists who are superior to Anoushka and do not have the same recognition.

I like Nikhil Banerjee. He lets the raaga develop more than Ravi Shankar and is adheres to the concept closer than Ravi Shankar.

>
> If you want Anoushka play close to traditional listen to Live At Carnegie hall from 2001. I think that is her best album. Her fusion album Traveller for which she was touring and performing in that video is also good, if not great.
>
> I have listened to her play, and thought she sucked.

Have you heard that album? I dont think I will be able to convince you in any way since you seen pretty prejudiced but anyway try to keep an open mind.

[soccerfan777]

On Monday, October 29, 2018 at 10:40:04 AM UTC-5, soccerfan777 wrote:
> On Monday, October 29, 2018 at 10:11:36 AM UTC-5, SliceAndDice wrote:
> > On Monday, October 29, 2018 at 7:24:24 AM UTC-4, soccerfan777 wrote:
> > > Oh god not again. I have listened to Nikhil Banerjee. He is a traditionalist.
> > Duh..it is called classical music for a reason. Implies a certain adherence to tradition.
>
> What Anoushka is doing is Indian classical fusion. And it is not something new. Zakir Hussain and L Shankar did with John McLaughlin back in the 70s. Listen to this album... their best.
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s6O-Z_x_-Pk&list=PL5nEJrhjTDN7DHbbfovQ75Ml79Bovs4wT
>
>
> >
> > Even Ravi Shankar was too modern for him and his fans. These Nikhil Banerjee fans seem to be a bit cunty.
> >
> > OK. You solicit opinions and when an opinion is given, you choose to call them "cunty". Remind you of a certain someone you seem to detest?
>
> LOL... I was joking. And I was talking about you.

I wasn't... But in retrospective I should have... because that was indeed a cunty response.

[soccerfan777]

On Monday, October 29, 2018 at 10:11:36 AM UTC-5, SliceAndDice wrote:

I heard some Bombay Jayashree. Honesly, it is garbage... if you think this is good Indian classical, you must be out of your mind. The arrangements are Michael Bolton-ish with that ridiculous sounding soft rock/new agey bass guitar which is so out of place.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8eBoC5mgt0c

[The Iceberg]

what's wrong with Michael Bolton?!!

[soccerfan777]

lol. The pikey trash is into Michael Bolton, it seems. What else do you like?

[Pelle Svanslös]

Kenny G?

--
https://img.aws.la-croix.com/2014/08/19/1193729/Comment-Herge-alle-pecher-jurons-favoris-capitaine-Haddock-pointe-Bretagne_1_730_425.jpg

[SliceAndDice]

On Monday, October 29, 2018 at 11:40:04 AM UTC-4, soccerfan777 wrote:
> On Monday, October 29, 2018 at 10:11:36 AM UTC-5, SliceAndDice wrote:
> > On Monday, October 29, 2018 at 7:24:24 AM UTC-4, soccerfan777 wrote:
> > > Oh god not again. I have listened to Nikhil Banerjee. He is a traditionalist.
> > Duh..it is called classical music for a reason. Implies a certain adherence to tradition.
>
> What Anoushka is doing is Indian classical fusion. And it is not something new. Zakir Hussain and L Shankar did with John McLaughlin back in the 70s. Listen to this album... their best.
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s6O-Z_x_-Pk&list=PL5nEJrhjTDN7DHbbfovQ75Ml79Bovs4wT
>
>
> >
> > Even Ravi Shankar was too modern for him and his fans. These Nikhil Banerjee fans seem to be a bit cunty.
> >
> > OK. You solicit opinions and when an opinion is given, you choose to call them "cunty". Remind you of a certain someone you seem to detest?
>
> LOL... I was joking. And I was talking about you.
>
> >
> >
> >
> > > Honestly I tend to like artists who like to try something different.
> >
> > You are conflating two things here, so I will separate them. One is willingness to experiment outside the realm of classical music in the form of fusion music etc. Not my favorite genre, but I am not opposed to it.
>
> Its not my favorite either... I honestly like Indian classical without fusion better. But I am open minded and if it is done well, I like it.
>
>
> > The other is artistic ability. Remember, being technically accomplished in playing a sitar does not necessarily make one a great sitar vaadak. Being a great artist has many more dimensions, some of them undefinable. Ravi Shankar is not my favorite but he was undoubtedly a great artist.
>
> > Bombay Jayashree has experimented with many more forms than Anoushka but I would not ever call her anything but a brilliant artist.
>
> I havent heard her. What instrument does she play.

She just happens to be the premier Carnatic musician in the world today. That you haven't even heard of her says a lot.

>
>
> >Anoushka is a different story. She is a mediocre artist riding on the coattails of her famous father, photogenic looks and great marketing skills.
>
> Total BS. She performed with Ravi Shankar many times and he himself taught her for many years. If he thought she was mediocre he might still promote her because she is his daughter but would have never allowed her as a co-sitarist in his own albums and concerts.

Of course he would. If it was your daughter, wouldn't you? And just because someone was taught by a great artist does not necessarily make her great by induction. Having your own artistic stamp is important.

>
>
> > To people who are serious listeners to Hindustani music, it is easy to spot that she is a fraud. Nikhil Banerjee (to me) represents the apogee of sitar vaadan, hence I presented him to you as an example. But there are many, many artists who are superior to Anoushka and do not have the same recognition.
>
> I like Nikhil Banerjee. He lets the raaga develop more than Ravi Shankar and is adheres to the concept closer than Ravi Shankar.
>
> >
> > If you want Anoushka play close to traditional listen to Live At Carnegie hall from 2001. I think that is her best album. Her fusion album Traveller for which she was touring and performing in that video is also good, if not great.
> >
> > I have listened to her play, and thought she sucked.
>
> Have you heard that album? I dont think I will be able to convince you in any way since you seen pretty prejudiced but anyway try to keep an open mind.

I have heard enough of her and I am very open minded. I just feel that she is mediocre and I am entitled to my opinion, I hope?

[soccerfan777]

On Monday, October 29, 2018 at 12:04:45 PM UTC-5, SliceAndDice wrote:
> On Monday, October 29, 2018 at 11:40:04 AM UTC-4, soccerfan777 wrote:
> > On Monday, October 29, 2018 at 10:11:36 AM UTC-5, SliceAndDice wrote:
> > > On Monday, October 29, 2018 at 7:24:24 AM UTC-4, soccerfan777 wrote:
> > > > Oh god not again. I have listened to Nikhil Banerjee. He is a traditionalist.
> > > Duh..it is called classical music for a reason. Implies a certain adherence to tradition.
> >
> > What Anoushka is doing is Indian classical fusion. And it is not something new. Zakir Hussain and L Shankar did with John McLaughlin back in the 70s. Listen to this album... their best.
> >
> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s6O-Z_x_-Pk&list=PL5nEJrhjTDN7DHbbfovQ75Ml79Bovs4wT
> >
> >
> > >
> > > Even Ravi Shankar was too modern for him and his fans. These Nikhil Banerjee fans seem to be a bit cunty.
> > >
> > > OK. You solicit opinions and when an opinion is given, you choose to call them "cunty". Remind you of a certain someone you seem to detest?
> >
> > LOL... I was joking. And I was talking about you.
> >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > > Honestly I tend to like artists who like to try something different.
> > >
> > > You are conflating two things here, so I will separate them. One is willingness to experiment outside the realm of classical music in the form of fusion music etc. Not my favorite genre, but I am not opposed to it.
> >
> > Its not my favorite either... I honestly like Indian classical without fusion better. But I am open minded and if it is done well, I like it.
> >
> >
> > > The other is artistic ability. Remember, being technically accomplished in playing a sitar does not necessarily make one a great sitar vaadak. Being a great artist has many more dimensions, some of them undefinable. Ravi Shankar is not my favorite but he was undoubtedly a great artist.
> >
> > > Bombay Jayashree has experimented with many more forms than Anoushka but I would not ever call her anything but a brilliant artist.
> >
> > I havent heard her. What instrument does she play.
>
> She just happens to be the premier Carnatic musician in the world today. That you haven't even heard of her says a lot.

No it says that I am more into Hindustani music. And I do like Carnatic music like N. Ravikiran, MS Gopalakrishnan, Sundaram Balachander, U. Srinivas etc. I am not much into vocal carnatic. I prefer the instrumentalists.

Anyway, based on that clip, Bombay Jayashree is appalling or at least her fusion music is. May be she is good when she sticks to traditional?

> >
> >
> > >Anoushka is a different story. She is a mediocre artist riding on the coattails of her famous father, photogenic looks and great marketing skills.
> >
> > Total BS. She performed with Ravi Shankar many times and he himself taught her for many years. If he thought she was mediocre he might still promote her because she is his daughter but would have never allowed her as a co-sitarist in his own albums and concerts.
>
> Of course he would. If it was your daughter, wouldn't you? And just because someone was taught by a great artist does not necessarily make her great by induction. Having your own artistic stamp is important.

And she does have an artistic stamp, whether you like it or not.

>
> >
> >
> > > To people who are serious listeners to Hindustani music, it is easy to spot that she is a fraud. Nikhil Banerjee (to me) represents the apogee of sitar vaadan, hence I presented him to you as an example. But there are many, many artists who are superior to Anoushka and do not have the same recognition.
> >
> > I like Nikhil Banerjee. He lets the raaga develop more than Ravi Shankar and is adheres to the concept closer than Ravi Shankar.
> >
> > >
> > > If you want Anoushka play close to traditional listen to Live At Carnegie hall from 2001. I think that is her best album. Her fusion album Traveller for which she was touring and performing in that video is also good, if not great.
> > >
> > > I have listened to her play, and thought she sucked.
> >
> > Have you heard that album? I dont think I will be able to convince you in any way since you seen pretty prejudiced but anyway try to keep an open mind.
>
> I have heard enough of her and I am very open minded. I just feel that she is mediocre and I am entitled to my opinion, I hope?

You are entitled to any opinion, as long as they are informed. Anyone can have an opinion. Even Iceberg has.

[soccerfan777]

I honestly think Kenny G was better than Michael Bolton... I at least like one of his songs (Songbird? Can't tell... they all sound alike). Michael Bolton is OTOH insufferable... I would equate Celine Dion to Michael Bolton.

[SliceAndDice]

Er..I was only referring to Bombay Jayashree as an artist, not the quality of the arrangements in one particular album. And this is not classical music, this is fusion. But regardless of what goes on around her, she shines in any setting, a sign of an exemplary artist. Listen to her render a movie song in Malayalam:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fTrHqpXjhJQ

[SliceAndDice]

I have learned Hindustani music for 10 years, so I think my opinion is pretty well-informed.

[soccerfan777]

SliceAndDice, it is well-established you don't like Anoushka Shankar. What do you think of Vilayat Khan's son.

He is fat, ugly, sweaty most of the times and definitely not a sexy woman. So you might like him better? LOL

Anyway this is a amazing album, IMHO and one of the best from the 00s. It is a fusion of Hindustani, Carnatic and the Malian/Guinean/Gambian Mande music.

It is a collaboration between Shujaat Hussain Khan, Mamadaou Diabate and Lalgudi GR Krishnan (son of the great Lalgudi Jayaraman). So basically sitar, kora and violin with ghatam and tabla.

Whereas Ravi Shankar failed (in your opinion) to educate his daughter, his rival sitarist Vilayat Khan and rival Indian classical musician (Lalgudi Jayaraman) might have succeeded? ;-) Or are they all utter failures? I will let you decide.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pfLHcDlLsT4&index=2&list=PLVzRLgReLHIG69c27_aGPmvIkI9F4KgpA

[soccerfan777]

May be that is why you are biased!

[The Iceberg]

eh? NEARRRRR FARRRRRRRRRRRRR WHEREVER YOU AREEEE AND I KNOW THAT MY HEARRRTTT MUST GO ONNNN! sometimes sing that in the kitchen when thinking up a Sampras post!

[The Iceberg]

yeah! he was good!

[soccerfan777]

Awful... sorry... the arrangement is modern and posh sounding... sounds like a rape of Indian classical music. Sounds like Kenny G and Michael Bolton took over the production duties.

[soccerfan777]

No wonder they are so bad. I was watching the ending of titanic couple of days ago. It is not as bas as they thought... and then the song came on... fuck!... it ruined the whole movie in my opinion. What was James Cameron thinking?

[soccerfan777]

Good!

[soccerfan777]

I bet Whisper like Michael Bolton too... Seems like a Sampras fan trait...

[soccerfan777]

Turns out Kenny G managed to get into India classical as well...predictably awful...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frtFr77Zy30

[SliceAndDice]

Yes, towards great music.

[SliceAndDice]

If looks are what you use to judge musical talent, I can only say that your music analysis is as shallow as your tennis analysis :)

To answer your question, Shujaat is a good sitar vaadak, but not his father. My favorite sitar vaadak currently is Budhaditya Mukherjee.

[SliceAndDice]

And just to show you that I am not the only one who feels that way, here is a sampling of reviews about Anoushka from Amazon.
https://www.amazon.com/Live-At-Carnegie-Hall/product-reviews/B000TETDTQ/ref=cm_cr_dp_d_hist_1?ie=UTF8&filterByStar=one_star&reviewerType=all_reviews#reviews-filter-bar


I also know for a fact that she is poorly regarded in Indian classical music circles.

[SliceAndDice]

And I agree with some of the reviewers there - the Ravi Shankar daughter with musical talent is Norah Jones.

[krisr...@gmail.com]

Cherry picking....

https://www.amazon.com/Live-Carnegie-Hall-Anoushka-Shankar/product-reviews/B00005QD80/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_paging_btm_2?ie=UTF8&reviewerType=all_reviews&pageNumber=2

" am frankly shocked at the number of negative reviews written by people who either admit they don't know much about Hindustani classical music or display their ignorance in the comments they make.

Anoushka has 24 concert scheduled in the next 2 months; in addition, she will be by her father's side at each of the 8 concerts he has set in the same time period. Ample evidence that many thousands of Classical Indian Music fans in the US alone consider her a major talent - as do I.

Anoushka is a professional recording and concert artist - yet several reveiws criticize her "commercialism". Concerts and CDs are commercial enterprises, my friends - duh! Some criticize her for trading on her family name while singing the praises of her father who became well known because of his famous brother, Uday Shankar.

It is improper under any circumstances to refer to classical performances like these as "songs". Those who claim that these pieces are "verbatim" or "identical to" something on another of her CDs or played at a concert they attended simply have no idea what they are listening to and may have mistakenly assumed that this music, like virtually everything in the West, consists of composed pieces written in advance and played as such.

Hindustani classical music is improvised within strict and complex rules that define and control each raga. The term "composition" most often refers to a short chorus or refrain which states the theme and to which one returns after a period of improvization. (In the Carnatic music of South India, the term is used for something much more akin to a Western song. This lends Carnatic music it's repetative and non-creative feel. And please note: Hindustani music is the most complex system of rhythm and melody in the world, substantially more developed than any other in South Asia - it is hardly waiting to blossom.)

The use of two drummers is common in all Indian Classical Music. To suggest that these great tabla players tripped one another up in any way is simply foolish. If you cannot hear the tala, you may become confused. They played brilliantly together!

This music is taught to students who imitate EXACTLY what their gurus sing or play. To preserve a tradition developed over centuries it is very important that a performer master the one style being handed down to her before hot-dogging and "doing her own thang" - something that may be valued among kids who last week learned a few chords on the guitar, but considered very dangerous in highly developed classical music systems of all kinds. Anoushka has a responsibility to preserve the entire classical traditon of her father, his guru the great Ustad Allaudin Khan, and indeed, the entire Maihar tradition. Once we are all fairly certain this has been acomplished, we will welcome more of her own individual expression. Until then it is with great humility and respect for her father that she doesn't try to show him up, act like she knows more than he does, or even suggest that she has something important to add that he missed in the last 60 years. This is not an Okie Stomp. Anoushka displays grace, modesty and deep respect for her culture, traditions and family honor. In addition, she is always dressed very tastefully in the typical outfits of India - to criticize this is to criticize India herself, something for which you should be ashamed!

Michael Robinson is among those musicians who has retuned a piano using just intonation in order to play with the sitar. You can also chose pentatonic ragas that avoid a few sour notes.

Finally, the tuning of sympathetic strings is a highly variable and personal matter. I can think of several situations in which I have tuned both 4ths for various reasons. Why Anoushka may have done so is really not any of your business. If you were Hindustani musicians you would have found it unremarkable and would not have made the mistake of assuming that there is any correct way to tune a sitar's tarafs."

[krisr...@gmail.com]

Not really. Since you showed your taste with that crap Malayali song.

[SliceAndDice]

A song pronounced crap by *you*, who has already displayed crappy taste by salivating over Anoushka.

[krisr...@gmail.com]

So you are in full troll mode now?

[Shakes]

On Sunday, October 28, 2018 at 7:31:34 PM UTC-7, SliceAndDice wrote:
> As someone who listens to a lot of Hindustani classical, I think Anushka is a terrible artist. Beautiful and very good at marketing, yes. If you would like to listen to a great sitar maestro, listen to Nikhil Banerjee for instance. Immense depth in his music. A short clip: https://youtu.be/ZDKrFcFIfm8

I haven't heard much of Anoushka, but what is your opinion on some of the old timers - Kumar Gandharva, Kishori Amonkar (and her mother Mogubai) ?

Also, I am curious about your opinion(s) on Hindi Film Singers.

[Shakes]

Er, you are talking about the arrangements but nothing about Bombay Jayashree's vocals ? She is a great vocal singer, technically speaking.

[soccerfan777]

On Monday, October 29, 2018 at 4:10:04 PM UTC-5, Shakes wrote:
> On Sunday, October 28, 2018 at 7:31:34 PM UTC-7, SliceAndDice wrote:
> > As someone who listens to a lot of Hindustani classical, I think Anushka is a terrible artist. Beautiful and very good at marketing, yes. If you would like to listen to a great sitar maestro, listen to Nikhil Banerjee for instance. Immense depth in his music. A short clip: https://youtu.be/ZDKrFcFIfm8
>
> I haven't heard much of Anoushka,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9AqQLP6SuvU&index=2&list=OLAK5uy_kDAnyrX-Tsu-l_a2sa5R2rZ8a7Au6uuZM

> but what is your opinion on some of the old timers - Kumar Gandharva, Kishori Amonkar (and her mother Mogubai) ?

What do you think of Annapurna Devi - Ravi Shankar's wife and daughter of Allaudin Khan (Ravi Shankar's guru) and also sister of Ali Akbar Khan.

What do you think of Ali Akbar Khan? Annapurna played the bass sitar known as surbahar...

Speaking of Surbahar, this is a great album by Kushal Das.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1cfOHbcnY3g&t=1946s

>
> Also, I am curious about your opinion(s) on Hindi Film Singers.

If he is Indian (which I think he is), this is a rather insulting question...lol

[soccerfan777]

I dont really care much for vocals unless they are amazing. My favorite vocalist of Hindustani music are actually Pakistanis (Nusrat Fateh Ali Khan and Abida Parveen). I somehow never got into Carnatic vocals. May be I should give it another shot.

Honestly the arrangements (for that Bombay Jayashree song) were so annoying that they distracted from the vocals.

[bob]

On Mon, 29 Oct 2018 04:24:22 -0700 (PDT), soccerfan777
<zepf...@gmail.com> wrote:

>Oh god not again. I have listened to Nikhil Banerjee. He is a traditionalist. Even Ravi Shankar was too modern for him and his fans. These Nikhil Banerjee fans seem to be a bit cunty.
>
>Honestly I tend to like artists who like to try something different. If you want Anoushka play close to traditional listen to Live At Carnegie hall from 2001. I think that is her best album. Her fusion album Traveller for which she was touring and performing in that video is also good, if not great.

it was beautiful music, if only you had a nice car with a nice stereo
to listen to it. :-)

bob

[SliceAndDice]

LOL..no. Just going by a pattern I have seen from you in tennis.

[SliceAndDice]

My top tier of Hindustani khayal vocalists:
1. Ustad Amir Khan - meditative, transcendental music. Never a note out of place or a bad aesthetic choice.
2. Bade Ghulam Ali Khan - a genius, playful, earthy, invigorating, underrated khayal singer - wish he did more khayals.
3. Salamat Ali/Nazakat Ali Khan - their earlier output is especially stunning. Their decision to emigrate to Pakistan caused a drop in their popularity, but I think they belong right up here. Can be a little overenthusiastic and jarring in the drut portions though.
4. Kishori Amonkar - a bit of a maverick, but I love her creativity and the unique choices she makes in her raaga presentations
5. Bhimsen Joshi - a force of nature, his legendary taans are awe-inspiring. Love his Megh Malhar.
6. Kesarbai Kerker - Outstanding voice quality and virtuosity.
7. Roshan Ara Begum - So tuneful and soulful

I do not have access to enough recordings of Fayyaz Khan or Abdul Karim Khan, though they are stupendous in whatever little I have heard and would no doubt belong in the top tier. Kumar Gandharva is a great great musician who has made up for his physical deficiencies with a very unique style and has busted conventions with idiosyncratic raaga interpretations and has done a great job incorporating folk music into the classical galaxy, but he has never been in my top tier. In the end, I guess it depends on individual taste and mine has gravitated towards Kirana gayaki. It took me a lot of time to warm up to Kishori as well. I love Mogubai as well (again, not enough access to her full length recordings), but prefer Kesarbai.

Current vocalists I love:
1) Sanhita Nandi (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E1TkcsKXbck) -- my absolute favorite, her style is classic Kirana
2) Ramakant Gaikwad (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jYqnqLOHMNI)
3) Manjiri Asnare Kelkar (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hu-HNaNd_oY)

But I don't listen to too many current musicians.

Vocalists I abhor:
Bandit Jasraj :)

My favorite instrumentalists:
1) Nikhil Banerjee - Sitar
2) Ali Akbar Khan - Sarod
3) Bismillah Khan - Shehnai
4) Pannalal Ghosh - Flute

Regarding Hindi film singers, I do not have much of an opinion on the current lot (And I am 38, not as old as I sound from this post lol). But I do think Shreya Ghoshal and Arijit Singh, Shilpa Rao and Sona Mohapatra are the pick of the ones I have heard, and Amit Trivedi the pick of the musicians (not a Rahman fan here, much prefer Illayaraja).

As far as my favorite Hindi singers go:
1) Lata Mangeshkar - yes, she has been atrocious in the last few decades, but her oeuvre at peak (50s - early 70s) is unmatched in quality, imo.
2) Asha Bhosle - definitely the most versatile of the lot, did not suffer the big quality drop that Lata did. But, imo, did not have the purity of singing that Lata did.
3) Kishore Kumar - untrained musical genius, but I prefer more semi-classical songs in Hindi movies, and Kishore did not have enough of them. But he was very very good at whatever he did sing.
4) Geeta Dutt: Such a frothy, naturally seductive, expressive voice. Can listen to her sing at any time.
5) Rafi: A great singer, especially in the 50s but not a big fan of his output in the Shammi Kapoor era or his overly maudlin numbers.

How about you?

[SliceAndDice]

On Monday, October 29, 2018 at 5:29:59 PM UTC-4, soccerfan777 wrote:
> On Monday, October 29, 2018 at 4:22:17 PM UTC-5, Shakes wrote:
> > On Monday, October 29, 2018 at 10:24:42 AM UTC-7, soccerfan777 wrote:
> > > On Monday, October 29, 2018 at 12:15:15 PM UTC-5, SliceAndDice wrote:
> >
> > > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fTrHqpXjhJQ
> > >
> > > Awful... sorry... the arrangement is modern and posh sounding... sounds like a rape of Indian classical music. Sounds like Kenny G and Michael Bolton took over the production duties.
> >
> > Er, you are talking about the arrangements but nothing about Bombay Jayashree's vocals ? She is a great vocal singer, technically speaking.
>
> I dont really care much for vocals unless they are amazing. My favorite vocalist of Hindustani music are actually Pakistanis (Nusrat Fateh Ali Khan and Abida Parveen). I somehow never got into Carnatic vocals. May be I should give it another shot.

They are not technically Hindustani vocalists, but their music is Hindustani based. Nusrat, who was absolutely amazing, is a qawwal and Abida is into semi-classical music (ghazals, thurmis, qawwalis etc).

[soccerfan777]

And what pattern is that?

[soccerfan777]

Geeta Dutt was great! Too bad she didn't succeed as much as Lata Mangeshkar (who had a pretty weak voice in the early 50s, but improved a lot as she matured). I think Mohammed Rafi had a better voice but Kishore was more expressive. No mention of Mukesh? I like Manna Dey as well (though his voice is somewhat unusual).

What about music directors?

My top 5 are

1) RD Burman
2) SD Burman
3) Laxmikanth-Pyarelal
4) Illayaraja (Tamil)
5) Shankar-Jaikisan

Kalyanji-Anandji were also great and would make my top 10.

[SliceAndDice]

On Monday, October 29, 2018 at 5:25:04 PM UTC-4, soccerfan777 wrote:
> On Monday, October 29, 2018 at 4:10:04 PM UTC-5, Shakes wrote:
> > On Sunday, October 28, 2018 at 7:31:34 PM UTC-7, SliceAndDice wrote:
> > > As someone who listens to a lot of Hindustani classical, I think Anushka is a terrible artist. Beautiful and very good at marketing, yes. If you would like to listen to a great sitar maestro, listen to Nikhil Banerjee for instance. Immense depth in his music. A short clip: https://youtu.be/ZDKrFcFIfm8
> >
> > I haven't heard much of Anoushka,
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9AqQLP6SuvU&index=2&list=OLAK5uy_kDAnyrX-Tsu-l_a2sa5R2rZ8a7Au6uuZM
>
>
> > but what is your opinion on some of the old timers - Kumar Gandharva, Kishori Amonkar (and her mother Mogubai) ?
>
> What do you think of Annapurna Devi - Ravi Shankar's wife and daughter of Allaudin Khan (Ravi Shankar's guru) and also sister of Ali Akbar Khan.

Not enough recordings of her, but by all accounts, she was a greater musical genius than Ravi Shankar but gave up performing in public because of his insecurities. The movie Abhimaan is based on their life story. She died recently. An obit:
https://mumbaimirror.indiatimes.com/others/sunday-read/the-music-of-silence/articleshow/66199979.cms

>
> What do you think of Ali Akbar Khan? Annapurna played the bass sitar known as surbahar...

Ali Akbar Khan at his peak was a brilliant sarod player. One of the greatest instrumentalists ever.

>
> Speaking of Surbahar, this is a great album by Kushal Das.
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1cfOHbcnY3g&t=1946s
>
>
> >
> > Also, I am curious about your opinion(s) on Hindi Film Singers.
>
> If he is Indian (which I think he is), this is a rather insulting question...lol

Why is it insulting? :) I grew up listening to Hindi film music.

[SliceAndDice]

Mine are:
1) Madan Mohan
2) Illayaraja
3) SD Burman/RD Burman
4) Roshan
5) Jaidev (only because his output was much smaller than the rest, but everything he composed was absolutely stunning)
6) Khayyam

My dad is a big fan of Mukesh, and he had a very soulful voice, but he never made it to my favorites list. Manna Dey was known for his semi-classical prowess, but I found Lata way superior than him. Here is a song where Bhimsen Joshi destroyed him (unfair though, since Bhimsen is a bona fide classical musician):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FseICrhx-W0

[soccerfan777]

On Monday, October 29, 2018 at 7:56:52 PM UTC-5, SliceAndDice wrote:
> On Monday, October 29, 2018 at 5:25:04 PM UTC-4, soccerfan777 wrote:
> > On Monday, October 29, 2018 at 4:10:04 PM UTC-5, Shakes wrote:
> > > On Sunday, October 28, 2018 at 7:31:34 PM UTC-7, SliceAndDice wrote:
> > > > As someone who listens to a lot of Hindustani classical, I think Anushka is a terrible artist. Beautiful and very good at marketing, yes. If you would like to listen to a great sitar maestro, listen to Nikhil Banerjee for instance. Immense depth in his music. A short clip: https://youtu.be/ZDKrFcFIfm8
> > >
> > > I haven't heard much of Anoushka,
> >
> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9AqQLP6SuvU&index=2&list=OLAK5uy_kDAnyrX-Tsu-l_a2sa5R2rZ8a7Au6uuZM
> >
> >
> > > but what is your opinion on some of the old timers - Kumar Gandharva, Kishori Amonkar (and her mother Mogubai) ?
> >
> > What do you think of Annapurna Devi - Ravi Shankar's wife and daughter of Allaudin Khan (Ravi Shankar's guru) and also sister of Ali Akbar Khan.
>
> Not enough recordings of her, but by all accounts, she was a greater musical genius than Ravi Shankar but gave up performing in public because of his insecurities. The movie Abhimaan is based on their life story. She died recently. An obit:

Most of these articles are hearsay. They also say Gemini Ganesan ruined Savithri's life. Their daughter disagrees saying Savithri was self-destructive.

> https://mumbaimirror.indiatimes.com/others/sunday-read/the-music-of-silence/articleshow/66199979.cms
>
> >
> > What do you think of Ali Akbar Khan? Annapurna played the bass sitar known as surbahar...
>
> Ali Akbar Khan at his peak was a brilliant sarod player. One of the greatest instrumentalists ever.
> >
> > Speaking of Surbahar, this is a great album by Kushal Das.
> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1cfOHbcnY3g&t=1946s
> >
> >
> > >
> > > Also, I am curious about your opinion(s) on Hindi Film Singers.
> >
> > If he is Indian (which I think he is), this is a rather insulting question...lol
>
> Why is it insulting? :) I grew up listening to Hindi film music.

Its like asking an American what is his opinion on American rock guitarists.

That implies either
a) That the American poster doesn't know much about American rock music and he is testing the posters basic knowledge of American rock music
or
b) That American rock guitarists as a whole are all the same (and can be critiqued with one blanket statement)

He could have asked "who are your favorite singer from hindi movies" instead of saying what is your opinion of hindi film music singers.

[SliceAndDice]

example of Amir Khan's virtuosity. Even in a 4 minute song he sang for a movie, he could create absolute magic:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HYpCJ8yE7z0

[SliceAndDice]

Your crushes on pretty girls preventing you from being objective :)

[Shakes]

On Monday, October 29, 2018 at 5:47:58 PM UTC-7, SliceAndDice wrote:

> My top tier of Hindustani khayal vocalists:
> 1. Ustad Amir Khan - meditative, transcendental music. Never a note out of place or a bad aesthetic choice.
> 2. Bade Ghulam Ali Khan - a genius, playful, earthy, invigorating, underrated khayal singer - wish he did more khayals.
> 3. Salamat Ali/Nazakat Ali Khan - their earlier output is especially stunning. Their decision to emigrate to Pakistan caused a drop in their popularity, but I think they belong right up here. Can be a little overenthusiastic and jarring in the drut portions though.
> 4. Kishori Amonkar - a bit of a maverick, but I love her creativity and the unique choices she makes in her raaga presentations
> 5. Bhimsen Joshi - a force of nature, his legendary taans are awe-inspiring. Love his Megh Malhar.
> 6. Kesarbai Kerker - Outstanding voice quality and virtuosity.
> 7. Roshan Ara Begum - So tuneful and soulful
>

A neat list; though, as with any art form, I might quibble around with the rankings. For my list, to these above, I would also add some lesser known/underrated artiste(s) - Ghulam Taqi Khan (his Raga Nayaki Kanada was a treat), Gangubai, Mallikarjun Mansur.

I also, strangely, used to enjoy Dhrupad and I loved listening to the senior Dagar brothers.

> I do not have access to enough recordings of Fayyaz Khan or Abdul Karim Khan, though they are stupendous in whatever little I have heard and would no doubt belong in the top tier. Kumar Gandharva is a great great musician who has made up for his physical deficiencies with a very unique style and has busted conventions with idiosyncratic raaga interpretations and has done a great job incorporating folk music into the classical galaxy, but he has never been in my top tier. In the end, I guess it depends on individual taste and mine has gravitated towards Kirana gayaki. It took me a lot of time to warm up to Kishori as well. I love Mogubai as well (again, not enough access to her full length recordings), but prefer Kesarbai.
>

Kishori Amonkar is a true artist. I always thought that a truly artistic temperament lends itself to being eccentric and cavalier. See Amonkar in ICM, Kishore Kumar in HFM, or JMac in tennis. One of Kishori's best renditions was "Ganapati vidhan..." in Raga Hamsadhwani. She does some strange things though. :) I remember one of my friends complained that she courted the Komal Gandhar in Raga PatBihag.

> My favorite instrumentalists:
> 1) Nikhil Banerjee - Sitar
> 2) Ali Akbar Khan - Sarod
> 3) Bismillah Khan - Shehnai
> 4) Pannalal Ghosh - Flute
>
> Regarding Hindi film singers, I do not have much of an opinion on the current lot (And I am 38, not as old as I sound from this post lol). But I do think Shreya Ghoshal and Arijit Singh, Shilpa Rao and Sona Mohapatra are the pick of the ones I have heard, and Amit Trivedi the pick of the musicians (not a Rahman fan here, much prefer Illayaraja).

Unfortunately, I cannot listen to most of these folks except for Shreya Ghoshal. I was never a Rahman fan either.

>
> As far as my favorite Hindi singers go:
> 1) Lata Mangeshkar - yes, she has been atrocious in the last few decades, but her oeuvre at peak (50s - early 70s) is unmatched in quality, imo.
> 2) Asha Bhosle - definitely the most versatile of the lot, did not suffer the big quality drop that Lata did. But, imo, did not have the purity of singing that Lata did.
> 3) Kishore Kumar - untrained musical genius, but I prefer more semi-classical songs in Hindi movies, and Kishore did not have enough of them. But he was very very good at whatever he did sing.
> 4) Geeta Dutt: Such a frothy, naturally seductive, expressive voice. Can listen to her sing at any time.
> 5) Rafi: A great singer, especially in the 50s but not a big fan of his output in the Shammi Kapoor era or his overly maudlin numbers.
>
> How about you?

My HFM singer list is pretty much the same as yours. Technically speaking also, the rating is roughly the same, though I would put Rafi/Kishore in one group and above Geeta Dutt. Rafi's lower range was relatively poor - the voice lacked lustre, and he sometimes tended to yell when he went above top Rishabh. But, for most part, I usually put him and Kishore Kumar at the same level, though I prefer Kishore.

[Shakes]

On Monday, October 29, 2018 at 6:03:52 PM UTC-7, SliceAndDice wrote:

> Mine are:
> 1) Madan Mohan
> 2) Illayaraja
> 3) SD Burman/RD Burman
> 4) Roshan
> 5) Jaidev (only because his output was much smaller than the rest, but everything he composed was absolutely stunning)
> 6) Khayyam
>

Mine are, in no particular order, in HFM: Anil Biswas, Khemchand Prakash, Sajjad Hussain, Salil Chowdhury, Roshan, Jaidev. In South Indian Film Music, again in no particular order: S Rajeswara Rao, Adi Narayan Rao, Ghantasala, Illayaraja, KV Mahadevan

> My dad is a big fan of Mukesh, and he had a very soulful voice, but he never made it to my favorites list. Manna Dey was known for his semi-classical prowess, but I found Lata way superior than him. Here is a song where Bhimsen Joshi destroyed him (unfair though, since Bhimsen is a bona fide classical musician):
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FseICrhx-W0

Agree about your assessment of Manna Dey. Lata destroyed him here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WqgNR5VWzTs

[soccerfan777]

Good discussion. Which Hindi and Tamil movies do you guys think have flawless soundtracks?

I will throw in few

Tamil
-----
Kalyana Parisu (1959)
Missiamma (1953)
Mounga Raagam (1986)

Hindi
-----
Junglee (1961)
C.I.D. (1956)
Raam Teri Ganga Maili (1985)

There are ofcourse many more. I think movie soundtracks had a big let down in the 90s and has been in a downward slope ever since!

[SliceAndDice]

On Tuesday, October 30, 2018 at 2:50:44 AM UTC-4, Shakes wrote:
> On Monday, October 29, 2018 at 6:03:52 PM UTC-7, SliceAndDice wrote:
>
> > Mine are:
> > 1) Madan Mohan
> > 2) Illayaraja
> > 3) SD Burman/RD Burman
> > 4) Roshan
> > 5) Jaidev (only because his output was much smaller than the rest, but everything he composed was absolutely stunning)
> > 6) Khayyam
> >
>
>
> Mine are, in no particular order, in HFM: Anil Biswas, Khemchand Prakash, Sajjad Hussain, Salil Chowdhury, Roshan, Jaidev. In South Indian Film Music, again in no particular order: S Rajeswara Rao, Adi Narayan Rao, Ghantasala, Illayaraja, KV Mahadevan
>

Great list. Love Anil Biswas as well, did not include him and Khemchand/Sajjad because I have not listened to as much of their output as the others. But loved whatever I did listen to. Completely missed out on Salilda. He would be in my list too. Curious, why no Madan Mohan? :)

[SliceAndDice]

On Tuesday, October 30, 2018 at 2:45:10 AM UTC-4, Shakes wrote:
> On Monday, October 29, 2018 at 5:47:58 PM UTC-7, SliceAndDice wrote:
>
> > My top tier of Hindustani khayal vocalists:
> > 1. Ustad Amir Khan - meditative, transcendental music. Never a note out of place or a bad aesthetic choice.
> > 2. Bade Ghulam Ali Khan - a genius, playful, earthy, invigorating, underrated khayal singer - wish he did more khayals.
> > 3. Salamat Ali/Nazakat Ali Khan - their earlier output is especially stunning. Their decision to emigrate to Pakistan caused a drop in their popularity, but I think they belong right up here. Can be a little overenthusiastic and jarring in the drut portions though.
> > 4. Kishori Amonkar - a bit of a maverick, but I love her creativity and the unique choices she makes in her raaga presentations
> > 5. Bhimsen Joshi - a force of nature, his legendary taans are awe-inspiring. Love his Megh Malhar.
> > 6. Kesarbai Kerker - Outstanding voice quality and virtuosity.
> > 7. Roshan Ara Begum - So tuneful and soulful
> >
>
> A neat list; though, as with any art form, I might quibble around with the rankings. For my list, to these above, I would also add some lesser known/underrated artiste(s) - Ghulam Taqi Khan (his Raga Nayaki Kanada was a treat), Gangubai, Mallikarjun Mansur.

Yep, rankings are subjective and depend on the temperament of the listener. How would you rank them? Big fan of Gangubai and Mansur as well, they just missed my top tier. Never heard Ghulam Taqi Khan, I will give him a listen. Who are your favorites in the current generation? I would definitely recommend Sanhita Nandi if you have not heard her yet.

[SliceAndDice]

Listen to Anuradha composed by Ravi Shankar. 4 absolutely stunning songs all sung by Lata.

[soccerfan777]

They are all well-made songs. None of them are that memorable and I don't think any of them are considered classic songs. But I see that Ravi Shankar could do film music as well, if he wanted to. What do you think of Shiv-Hari? I think Silsila was a good effort.

This however does seem like a movie I would like to watch.

[SliceAndDice]

On Tuesday, October 30, 2018 at 10:55:02 AM UTC-4, soccerfan777 wrote:
> On Tuesday, October 30, 2018 at 9:30:17 AM UTC-5, SliceAndDice wrote:
> > On Tuesday, October 30, 2018 at 8:18:42 AM UTC-4, soccerfan777 wrote:
> > > Good discussion. Which Hindi and Tamil movies do you guys think have flawless soundtracks?
> > >
> > > I will throw in few
> > >
> > > Tamil
> > > -----
> > > Kalyana Parisu (1959)
> > > Missiamma (1953)
> > > Mounga Raagam (1986)
> > >
> > > Hindi
> > > -----
> > > Junglee (1961)
> > > C.I.D. (1956)
> > > Raam Teri Ganga Maili (1985)
> > >
> > > There are ofcourse many more. I think movie soundtracks had a big let down in the 90s and has been in a downward slope ever since!
> >
> > Listen to Anuradha composed by Ravi Shankar. 4 absolutely stunning songs all sung by Lata.
>
> They are all well-made songs. None of them are that memorable and I don't think any of them are considered classic songs. But I see that Ravi Shankar could do film music as well, if he wanted to.

Well depends on the listener and what you mean by "flawless". These are more complex compositions and would need repeat listenings to really appreciate them. In that sense, they are not "massy".

>What do you think of Shiv-Hari? I think Silsila was a good effort.

Silsila is a nice album and probably their best effort, but I do not think very highly of Shiv-Hari as film music composers. Pleasant and melodious, lots of Pahadi songs, but they do not challenge the listener :) Not a knock on them, it is purely based on my likes and dislikes.

> This however does seem like a movie I would like to watch.

It *is* a good movie. Rekha has never looked better.

[Shakes]

On Tuesday, October 30, 2018 at 7:25:09 AM UTC-7, SliceAndDice wrote:

>
> Great list. Love Anil Biswas as well, did not include him and Khemchand/Sajjad because I have not listened to as much of their output as the others. But loved whatever I did listen to. Completely missed out on Salilda. He would be in my list too. Curious, why no Madan Mohan? :)
>

I like Madan Mohan, but many of his compositions were too maudlin for my taste. But great composer, nevertheless.

I love this composition of his, sung by Talat Mahmood: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NwKZzJyeKZE

Similarly, Naushad doesn't make my list as his compositions are too "heavy".

Listen to this beauty composed by Sajjad Hussain: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lw-q2pDye6o (pardon the audio quality), bolstered by Talat Mahmood's velvet voice. In fact, Madan Mohan was so enamoured by this song that he borrowed it for one of his own movies much later (sung by Rafi, but he was no patch on Talat in this style of singing): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PgpnCC1oCIo

[Shakes]

On Tuesday, October 30, 2018 at 7:29:33 AM UTC-7, SliceAndDice wrote:
> On Tuesday, October 30, 2018 at 2:45:10 AM UTC-4, Shakes wrote:

> Yep, rankings are subjective and depend on the temperament of the listener. How would you rank them? Big fan of Gangubai and Mansur as well, they just missed my top tier. Never heard Ghulam Taqi Khan, I will give him a listen. Who are your favorites in the current generation? I would definitely recommend Sanhita Nandi if you have not heard her yet.

I would probably put Kesarbai at the top, followed by Ustad Amir Khan, Ustad BGAK, Kishori Amonkar, Bhimsen Joshi to round off my top 5.

I will definitely give a listen to Sanhita Nandi.

I also like Shubha Mudgal for her unconventional voice.

[SliceAndDice]

Would love to hear your opinion, once you do.

[SliceAndDice]

On Tuesday, October 30, 2018 at 11:54:34 AM UTC-4, Shakes wrote:
> On Tuesday, October 30, 2018 at 7:25:09 AM UTC-7, SliceAndDice wrote:
>
> >
> > Great list. Love Anil Biswas as well, did not include him and Khemchand/Sajjad because I have not listened to as much of their output as the others. But loved whatever I did listen to. Completely missed out on Salilda. He would be in my list too. Curious, why no Madan Mohan? :)
> >
>
> I like Madan Mohan, but many of his compositions were too maudlin for my taste. But great composer, nevertheless.
>
> I love this composition of his, sung by Talat Mahmood: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NwKZzJyeKZE

This is lovely indeed. To me, his collaboration with Lata is unmatched. Most of their songs are all-time classics. And I do not find them maudlin the way I find Rafi's sad numbers.

>
> Similarly, Naushad doesn't make my list as his compositions are too "heavy".
>
> Listen to this beauty composed by Sajjad Hussain: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lw-q2pDye6o (pardon the audio quality),

Yes, I have heard this before. Beautiful. I remember reading Lata saying no composer challenged her the way Sajjad did.

>bolstered by Talat Mahmood's velvet voice. In fact, Madan Mohan was so >enamoured by this song that he borrowed it for one of his own movies much >later (sung by Rafi, but he was no patch on Talat in this style of singing): >https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PgpnCC1oCIo

Interesting. I did not make this connection before. And I agree with your assessment.

[SliceAndDice]

On Tuesday, October 30, 2018 at 11:54:34 AM UTC-4, Shakes wrote:

This is one of my Sajjad favorites: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6-b8bDb3rbs

[soccerfan777]

On Tuesday, October 30, 2018 at 10:19:05 AM UTC-5, SliceAndDice wrote:
> On Tuesday, October 30, 2018 at 10:55:02 AM UTC-4, soccerfan777 wrote:
> > On Tuesday, October 30, 2018 at 9:30:17 AM UTC-5, SliceAndDice wrote:
> > > On Tuesday, October 30, 2018 at 8:18:42 AM UTC-4, soccerfan777 wrote:
> > > > Good discussion. Which Hindi and Tamil movies do you guys think have flawless soundtracks?
> > > >
> > > > I will throw in few
> > > >
> > > > Tamil
> > > > -----
> > > > Kalyana Parisu (1959)
> > > > Missiamma (1953)
> > > > Mounga Raagam (1986)
> > > >
> > > > Hindi
> > > > -----
> > > > Junglee (1961)
> > > > C.I.D. (1956)
> > > > Raam Teri Ganga Maili (1985)
> > > >
> > > > There are ofcourse many more. I think movie soundtracks had a big let down in the 90s and has been in a downward slope ever since!
> > >
> > > Listen to Anuradha composed by Ravi Shankar. 4 absolutely stunning songs all sung by Lata.
> >
> > They are all well-made songs. None of them are that memorable and I don't think any of them are considered classic songs. But I see that Ravi Shankar could do film music as well, if he wanted to.
>
> Well depends on the listener and what you mean by "flawless". These are more complex compositions and would need repeat listenings to really appreciate them. In that sense, they are not "massy".

Still a pop song... shouldn't a pop song be memorable? Its not a 20 minute epic Yes/Pink Floyd song or a 8 minute Led Zeppelin song we are talking about.

>
> >What do you think of Shiv-Hari? I think Silsila was a good effort.
> Silsila is a nice album and probably their best effort, but I do not think very highly of Shiv-Hari as film music composers. Pleasant and melodious, lots of Pahadi songs, but they do not challenge the listener :) Not a knock on them, it is purely based on my likes and dislikes.
>
> > This however does seem like a movie I would like to watch.
> It *is* a good movie. Rekha has never looked better.

I was talking about the movie Anuradha. I have seen Silsila couple of times already.

[soccerfan777]

On Tuesday, October 30, 2018 at 10:54:34 AM UTC-5, Shakes wrote:
> On Tuesday, October 30, 2018 at 7:25:09 AM UTC-7, SliceAndDice wrote:
>
> >
> > Great list. Love Anil Biswas as well, did not include him and Khemchand/Sajjad because I have not listened to as much of their output as the others. But loved whatever I did listen to. Completely missed out on Salilda. He would be in my list too. Curious, why no Madan Mohan? :)
> >
>
> I like Madan Mohan, but many of his compositions were too maudlin for my taste. But great composer, nevertheless.
>
> I love this composition of his, sung by Talat Mahmood: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NwKZzJyeKZE
>
> Similarly, Naushad doesn't make my list as his compositions are too "heavy".

Is that an euphemism for boring? What do you think of Khayyam? I like some of Naushad's stuff like Mughal E Azam... it has many great songs.

[soccerfan777]

I like Talat Mahmood as well. He sorta disappeared once Rafi, Mukesh and Kishore Kumar took over, right?

[guypers]

Yes, agree totally!

[soccerfan777]

WTF? You are Indian too? Whats with the "pukki" crap!

[guypers]

Jesus, was making a joke, dont know about paki music!

[SliceAndDice]

LOL..this thread should probably be renamed "Revenge of the Indians" (or Pakis if you prefer), a response to all the OT stuff we are subjected to every day on RST. :)

[soccerfan777]

You got caught... you desi, you!

[soccerfan777]

We should keep it going. At least better than the political garbage here.

[Shakes]

On Tuesday, October 30, 2018 at 9:14:55 AM UTC-7, SliceAndDice wrote:

> This is one of my Sajjad favorites: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6-b8bDb3rbs

Yes, absolutely divine. Love how he blended Arabic music into the composition.

How about this one from Sajjad - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wWKI2mcOOzY ? A beautiful Lata-Talat duet.

[Shakes]

On Tuesday, October 30, 2018 at 9:20:04 AM UTC-7, soccerfan777 wrote:
> On Tuesday, October 30, 2018 at 10:54:34 AM UTC-5, Shakes wrote:

> > Similarly, Naushad doesn't make my list as his compositions are too "heavy".
>
> Is that an euphemism for boring?

:), no I wouldn't say it's boring. It's just that he tries to dress his compositions rather heavily in Hindustani Classical. I prefer subtlety in music.

> What do you think of Khayyam?

I like him better than I do Naushad. I love these songs from his ouvre: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oTjs9T5EKoo and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LL4xDOhE8bA

> I like some of Naushad's stuff like Mughal E Azam... it has many great songs.
>

Yeah, I do like his music, inspite of my overall preference to other MDs. I like his compositions from "Ganga Jumna" and "Baiju Bawra". From "Mughal-e-Azam", I really like "Mohabbat Ki Jhooti Kahani Pe Roye" by Lata. A rare song in Darbari Kanada by a female singer. Usually that raga has too much gravitas and is better suited to male voices.

[Shakes]

On Tuesday, October 30, 2018 at 9:27:07 AM UTC-7, soccerfan777 wrote:

> I like Talat Mahmood as well. He sorta disappeared once Rafi, Mukesh and Kishore Kumar took over, right?

Pretty much, but I think it's more to do with the fact that the style of composing music changed. Until the early-1950's, the music was soft and required a vocal rendition that matched it. Composers like Biswas, Khemchand Prakash, Sajjad Hussain etc. composed melodious & "introverted" tunes that required a voice with finesse like Talat's. Once Naushad, Shankar Jaikshen, OPN etc. brought in a new style of music (more orchestration, "louder"), it required a new kind of voice projection. Rafi had the right kind of voice projection for this. Talat didn't. Kishore Kumar also able to mould his voice projection to the changing times.

[Shakes]

On Monday, October 29, 2018 at 5:47:58 PM UTC-7, SliceAndDice wrote:

> 3) Kishore Kumar - untrained musical genius, but I prefer more semi-classical songs in Hindi movies, and Kishore did not have enough of them. But he was very very good at whatever he did sing.

How about these songs by Kishore Kumar sung for Anil Biswas ? He sung in Talat style and did a remarkable job.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UmVMTsUMwwU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pyX3W_Sc8Uk

[soccerfan777]

Good point. There was a major change between film music of the 40s vs the 50s. I haven't heard much 40s (or 30s) film music but it hasn't particularly aged that well. 50s (Hindi film and also Tamil film) seems modern and also a lot more Western influenced and generally more entertaining.

Do you like J.P. Chandrababu (Tamil singer)? I think he was on par with Kishore Kumar if not better. Too bad he self-destructed.

This is my favorite Chandrababu song (Note how western it is... guitar/trumpet short solos in the middle)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mOj7ziVggso

[RaspingDrive]

On Monday, October 29, 2018 at 1:04:45 PM UTC-4, SliceAndDice wrote:
> On Monday, October 29, 2018 at 11:40:04 AM UTC-4, soccerfan777 wrote:
> > On Monday, October 29, 2018 at 10:11:36 AM UTC-5, SliceAndDice wrote:
> > > On Monday, October 29, 2018 at 7:24:24 AM UTC-4, soccerfan777 wrote:
> > > > Oh god not again. I have listened to Nikhil Banerjee. He is a traditionalist.
> > > Duh..it is called classical music for a reason. Implies a certain adherence to tradition.
> >
> > What Anoushka is doing is Indian classical fusion. And it is not something new. Zakir Hussain and L Shankar did with John McLaughlin back in the 70s. Listen to this album... their best.
> >
> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s6O-Z_x_-Pk&list=PL5nEJrhjTDN7DHbbfovQ75Ml79Bovs4wT
> >
> >
> > >
> > > Even Ravi Shankar was too modern for him and his fans. These Nikhil Banerjee fans seem to be a bit cunty.
> > >
> > > OK. You solicit opinions and when an opinion is given, you choose to call them "cunty". Remind you of a certain someone you seem to detest?
> >
> > LOL... I was joking. And I was talking about you.
> >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > > Honestly I tend to like artists who like to try something different.
> > >
> > > You are conflating two things here, so I will separate them. One is willingness to experiment outside the realm of classical music in the form of fusion music etc. Not my favorite genre, but I am not opposed to it.
> >
> > Its not my favorite either... I honestly like Indian classical without fusion better. But I am open minded and if it is done well, I like it.
> >
> >
> > > The other is artistic ability. Remember, being technically accomplished in playing a sitar does not necessarily make one a great sitar vaadak. Being a great artist has many more dimensions, some of them undefinable. Ravi Shankar is not my favorite but he was undoubtedly a great artist.
> >
> > > Bombay Jayashree has experimented with many more forms than Anoushka but I would not ever call her anything but a brilliant artist.
> >
> > I havent heard her. What instrument does she play.
>
> She just happens to be the premier Carnatic musician in the world today. That you haven't even heard of her says a lot.

What? Bombay Jayashree? There are probably a dozen or more better ones :)

[RaspingDrive]

On Monday, October 29, 2018 at 5:22:17 PM UTC-4, Shakes wrote:
> On Monday, October 29, 2018 at 10:24:42 AM UTC-7, soccerfan777 wrote:
> > On Monday, October 29, 2018 at 12:15:15 PM UTC-5, SliceAndDice wrote:
>
> > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fTrHqpXjhJQ
> >
> > Awful... sorry... the arrangement is modern and posh sounding... sounds like a rape of Indian classical music. Sounds like Kenny G and Michael Bolton took over the production duties.
>
> Er, you are talking about the arrangements but nothing about Bombay Jayashree's vocals ? She is a great vocal singer, technically speaking.

Come to Madras Music Academcy and throw a stone it will hit some talent or other in Carnatic music :)

[Shakes]

On Tuesday, October 30, 2018 at 1:38:56 PM UTC-7, RaspingDrive wrote:

> What? Bombay Jayashree? There are probably a dozen or more better ones :)

:) I was wondering why you haven't chimed in yet. Welcome !

[RaspingDrive]

On Monday, October 29, 2018 at 8:55:42 PM UTC-4, soccerfan777 wrote:
> On Monday, October 29, 2018 at 7:47:58 PM UTC-5, SliceAndDice wrote:
> > On Monday, October 29, 2018 at 5:10:04 PM UTC-4, Shakes wrote:
> > > On Sunday, October 28, 2018 at 7:31:34 PM UTC-7, SliceAndDice wrote:
> > > > As someone who listens to a lot of Hindustani classical, I think Anushka is a terrible artist. Beautiful and very good at marketing, yes. If you would like to listen to a great sitar maestro, listen to Nikhil Banerjee for instance. Immense depth in his music. A short clip: https://youtu.be/ZDKrFcFIfm8
> > >
> > > I haven't heard much of Anoushka, but what is your opinion on some of the old timers - Kumar Gandharva, Kishori Amonkar (and her mother Mogubai) ?
> > >
> > > Also, I am curious about your opinion(s) on Hindi Film Singers.
> >
> > My top tier of Hindustani khayal vocalists:
> > 1. Ustad Amir Khan - meditative, transcendental music. Never a note out of place or a bad aesthetic choice.
> > 2. Bade Ghulam Ali Khan - a genius, playful, earthy, invigorating, underrated khayal singer - wish he did more khayals.
> > 3. Salamat Ali/Nazakat Ali Khan - their earlier output is especially stunning. Their decision to emigrate to Pakistan caused a drop in their popularity, but I think they belong right up here. Can be a little overenthusiastic and jarring in the drut portions though.
> > 4. Kishori Amonkar - a bit of a maverick, but I love her creativity and the unique choices she makes in her raaga presentations
> > 5. Bhimsen Joshi - a force of nature, his legendary taans are awe-inspiring. Love his Megh Malhar.
> > 6. Kesarbai Kerker - Outstanding voice quality and virtuosity.
> > 7. Roshan Ara Begum - So tuneful and soulful
> >
> > I do not have access to enough recordings of Fayyaz Khan or Abdul Karim Khan, though they are stupendous in whatever little I have heard and would no doubt belong in the top tier. Kumar Gandharva is a great great musician who has made up for his physical deficiencies with a very unique style and has busted conventions with idiosyncratic raaga interpretations and has done a great job incorporating folk music into the classical galaxy, but he has never been in my top tier. In the end, I guess it depends on individual taste and mine has gravitated towards Kirana gayaki. It took me a lot of time to warm up to Kishori as well. I love Mogubai as well (again, not enough access to her full length recordings), but prefer Kesarbai.
> >
> > Current vocalists I love:
> > 1) Sanhita Nandi (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E1TkcsKXbck) -- my absolute favorite, her style is classic Kirana
> > 2) Ramakant Gaikwad (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jYqnqLOHMNI)
> > 3) Manjiri Asnare Kelkar (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hu-HNaNd_oY)
> >
> > But I don't listen to too many current musicians.
> >
> > Vocalists I abhor:
> > Bandit Jasraj :)
> >
> > My favorite instrumentalists:
> > 1) Nikhil Banerjee - Sitar
> > 2) Ali Akbar Khan - Sarod
> > 3) Bismillah Khan - Shehnai
> > 4) Pannalal Ghosh - Flute
> >
> > Regarding Hindi film singers, I do not have much of an opinion on the current lot (And I am 38, not as old as I sound from this post lol). But I do think Shreya Ghoshal and Arijit Singh, Shilpa Rao and Sona Mohapatra are the pick of the ones I have heard, and Amit Trivedi the pick of the musicians (not a Rahman fan here, much prefer Illayaraja).
> >
> > As far as my favorite Hindi singers go:
> > 1) Lata Mangeshkar - yes, she has been atrocious in the last few decades, but her oeuvre at peak (50s - early 70s) is unmatched in quality, imo.
> > 2) Asha Bhosle - definitely the most versatile of the lot, did not suffer the big quality drop that Lata did. But, imo, did not have the purity of singing that Lata did.

> > 3) Kishore Kumar - untrained musical genius, but I prefer more semi-classical songs in Hindi movies, and Kishore did not have enough of them. But he was very very good at whatever he did sing.

> > 4) Geeta Dutt: Such a frothy, naturally seductive, expressive voice. Can listen to her sing at any time.
> > 5) Rafi: A great singer, especially in the 50s but not a big fan of his output in the Shammi Kapoor era or his overly maudlin numbers.
> >
> > How about you?
>
> Geeta Dutt was great! Too bad she didn't succeed as much as Lata Mangeshkar (who had a pretty weak voice in the early 50s, but improved a lot as she matured). I think Mohammed Rafi had a better voice but Kishore was more expressive. No mention of Mukesh? I like Manna Dey as well (though his voice is somewhat unusual).
>
> What about music directors?
>
> My top 5 are
>
> 1) RD Burman
> 2) SD Burman
> 3) Laxmikanth-Pyarelal
> 4) Illayaraja (Tamil)
> 5) Shankar-Jaikisan
>
> Kalyanji-Anandji were also great and would make my top 10.

Dai Raja, a Mumbai-ite talking about Tamil movies? Dai! As for MDs, MSV is supreme. You probably don't even know who is MSV :) And then there was GR.

[RaspingDrive]

Particularly hectic period with a deadline looming :) So I won't be able participate much :)

[soccerfan777]

MS Vishwanathan... yeah, he and Ramamurthy made some great soundtracks.... Adho andal paravi pola... awesome song

> is supreme. You probably don't even know who is MSV :)

Wrong

>And then there was GR.

Gobalswamy Ramanathan? Vaarai Nee Vaarai... guess movie which song is that from? Nice try. I have heard a lot of music...dai... don't challenge me.

Which of these GR songs do you like most?

Vaarai Ne Vaara
Vanga Machan Vanga
Thedi Vanthane Pullimane
Nadagam Ellam Kanden
Yeachi Pizhaikkum
Vennila Jothiye
Pambara Kannale
Masilva Nilave
Thane Thanthanane
Thandhane Thandana
Jigu Jigu
Inbam Pongum Vennila

[soccerfan777]

What is "more better"... the English language is dying these days... sheesh.

[SliceAndDice]

I don’t listen to a lot of Carnatic, but who exactly? And please don’t say Ranjani Gayathri! :)

[soccerfan777]

On Tuesday, October 30, 2018 at 7:59:16 PM UTC-5, SliceAndDice wrote:
> I don’t listen to a lot of Carnatic, but who exactly? And please don’t say Ranjani Gayathri! :)

Why are you guys so much into vocal music? Why not instrumental music? I hear no discussion about the great veena and violin players in Carnatic classical.

[SliceAndDice]

Vocal music is the soul of Indian music. You cannot do all the things with an instrument that can be achieved with the human voice and produce the same effect.

[RaspingDrive]

Dozen or more, not "more better".

[RaspingDrive]

On Tuesday, October 30, 2018 at 8:59:16 PM UTC-4, SliceAndDice wrote:
> I don’t listen to a lot of Carnatic, but who exactly? And please don’t say Ranjani Gayathri! :)

I was exaggerating. Maybe Jayashri is the top Carnatic vocalist. I had Sudha Raghunathan, T.M. Krishna, Sanjay Subrahmanyam, Nithyasree Mahadevan etc in mind, as also the yesteryear greats Madurai Mani Iyer (my favorite), Balamurali Krishna, GNB, MS Subbulakshmi, MD Ramanathan, Maharajapuram Santhanam, MLV, DK Pattammal and many more.

[RaspingDrive]

Mandhiri kumari.

> Which of these GR songs do you like most?
>
> Vaarai Ne Vaara
> Vanga Machan Vanga
> Thedi Vanthane Pullimane
> Nadagam Ellam Kanden
> Yeachi Pizhaikkum
> Vennila Jothiye
> Pambara Kannale
> Masilva Nilave
> Thane Thanthanane
> Thandhane Thandana
> Jigu Jigu
> Inbam Pongum Vennila

OK, you seem to have good knowledge :) GR is supposed to have been a superlative MD as were MSV and TKR, not to forget KVM. As for GR's songs I don't remember anything in particular off the top of my head but I have heard some in your list.

[SliceAndDice]

I was only referring to current vocalists, and I still think she is the best of the lot. None of them have her soulfulness and her aesthetic sense. Yes, there are many stalwarts from the last, including the triumvirate - MS, DKP and MLV. I like all of them for different reasons. But my favorite (based on admittedly few listenings) has been Brindamma. I haven’t listened to your favorite, will try to catch up on his recordings.

[SliceAndDice]

I have heard this one and it is a gorgeous number indeed.

[SliceAndDice]

Did he compose Kanthan Karunai? I am not a Tamilian, but that is one of my favorite albums. P Susheela at her absolute peak.

[SliceAndDice]

Get out! Is that Kishore for real? He sounds amazingly like Talat. And true, he has done an exceptional job. Learn something new about the man every day.

Here is a Lata song by CR (another favorite I missed out on) where she sounds remarkably like Asha;

https://youtu.be/xqYGk-V9jrE

This song notwithstanding, I think CR brought out the fun side in Lata.

[RaspingDrive]

On Wednesday, October 31, 2018 at 9:37:18 AM UTC-4, SliceAndDice wrote:
> I was only referring to current vocalists, and I still think she is the best of the lot. None of them have her soulfulness and her aesthetic sense. Yes, there are many stalwarts from the last, including the triumvirate - MS, DKP and MLV. I like all of them for different reasons. But my favorite (based on admittedly few listenings) has been Brindamma. I haven’t listened to your favorite, will try to catch up on his recordings.

Madurai Mani Iyer -- Swara Chakravarthy. His B'day just passed (Oct 25). I just adore him. My origins are from Madurai as well. Will listen to Brindamma, since you say she is your favorite :)
DKP's eppadi paadinaro, wow. If you knew Tamil you would enjoy it more :)

[RaspingDrive]

On Wednesday, October 31, 2018 at 9:43:04 AM UTC-4, SliceAndDice wrote:
> Did he compose Kanthan Karunai? I am not a Tamilian, but that is one of my favorite albums. P Susheela at her absolute peak.

Kanthan Karunai is of more recent vintage. Can't have been composed by GR. Off the top of my head, maybe KVM (of Sankarabharanam fame) or Kunnanudi Vaidhyanathan, the violin maestro of Chennai. Need to check on Google. Kunnakudi Vaidhyanathan composed the evergreen Marudhamalai Maa-maniye Murugaiyya, sung superbly by Madurai Somu. An all-time Tamil Nadu favorite.

Hats off to you for knowing so much about Tamil songs being non-Tamilian :)

[SliceAndDice]

Check this one out: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aolej5dISvE

And yes, Eppadi Paadinaro is awesome. Unfortunately, I do not understand it. :(

[SliceAndDice]

On Wednesday, October 31, 2018 at 11:47:13 AM UTC-4, RaspingDrive wrote:
> On Wednesday, October 31, 2018 at 9:43:04 AM UTC-4, SliceAndDice wrote:
> > Did he compose Kanthan Karunai? I am not a Tamilian, but that is one of my favorite albums. P Susheela at her absolute peak.
>
> Kanthan Karunai is of more recent vintage. Can't have been composed by GR. Off the top of my head, maybe KVM (of Sankarabharanam fame) or Kunnanudi Vaidhyanathan, the violin maestro of Chennai. Need to check on Google. Kunnakudi Vaidhyanathan composed the evergreen Marudhamalai Maa-maniye Murugaiyya, sung superbly by Madurai Somu. An all-time Tamil Nadu favorite.

I checked and you are right, it is KVM.

>
> Hats off to you for knowing so much about Tamil songs being non-Tamilian :)

Music has no language. :)