Rafa taking aim at Federer

[Patrick Kehoe]

Rafa has been "all business" since he arrived in Canada. Friends of mine who are covering the Rogers Cup in Montreal tell me he's been stone faced and focused all week so far, at practice, walking the grounds and with most of the media. The sense some are taking away from his keen business approach centers around the perception that Rafa sees the Rogers Cup as a likely showdown venue against Federer. Having spoken with a member of the Nadal camp, one of my former writers tells me Rafa has been preping to try and put an end to Federer's run of wins against him ASAP, meaning in Montreal, should they make the final. Also, Rafa feels that his draw stacks up as one of the most challenging he's faced at a Masters level event this season.

P

[AZ]

On Thursday, August 10, 2017 at 10:41:08 PM UTC+6, Patrick Kehoe wrote:
> Rafa has been "all business" since he arrived in Canada. Friends of mine who are covering the Rogers Cup in Montreal tell me he's been stone faced and focused all week so far, at practice, walking the grounds and with most of the media. The sense some are taking away from his keen business approach centers around the perception that Rafa sees the Rogers Cup as a likely showdown venue against Federer. Having spoken with a member of the Nadal camp, one of my former writers tells me Rafa has been preping to try and put an end to Federer's run of wins against him ASAP, meaning in Montreal, should they make the final. Also, Rafa feels that his draw stacks up as one of the most challenging he's faced at a Masters level event this season.
>
> P

I was about to start a thread too. Fed-Rafa match 4 in 2017 coming up. Rafa can't win unless he has a plan B. So far, Fed has become very efficient in beating him. No more confidence problem. Confident Fed = better Fed, clear thinking Fed, aggressive Fed. Too hot for Rafa. 5th straight win coming up for Fed. And the h2h wrong will slowly but surely righted.

[kaennorsing]

Op donderdag 10 augustus 2017 18:41:08 UTC+2 schreef Patrick Kehoe:

> Rafa has been "all business" since he arrived in Canada. Friends of mine who are covering the Rogers Cup in Montreal tell me he's been stone faced and focused all week so far, at practice, walking the grounds and with most of the media. The sense some are taking away from his keen business approach centers around the perception that Rafa sees the Rogers Cup as a likely showdown venue against Federer. Having spoken with a member of the Nadal camp, one of my former writers tells me Rafa has been preping to try and put an end to Federer's run of wins against him ASAP, meaning in Montreal, should they make the final. Also, Rafa feels that his draw stacks up as one of the most challenging he's faced at a Masters level event this season.
>
> P

Both guys do look to be on a collision course with their year so far and the way they looked in their opening matches. How long can this revival of a tennis classic fairytale last? I wouldn't mind if Rafa gets one back if Federer goes on and wins the US open. Now imagine if Fed beats Rafa in the final... Rafa will be #1 on Monday but everyone will see Federer as the real #1, having won every masters and slam match this year so far.

[AZ]

On Thursday, August 10, 2017 at 11:26:23 PM UTC+6, kaennorsing wrote:
> Op donderdag 10 augustus 2017 18:41:08 UTC+2 schreef Patrick Kehoe:
> > Rafa has been "all business" since he arrived in Canada. Friends of mine who are covering the Rogers Cup in Montreal tell me he's been stone faced and focused all week so far, at practice, walking the grounds and with most of the media. The sense some are taking away from his keen business approach centers around the perception that Rafa sees the Rogers Cup as a likely showdown venue against Federer. Having spoken with a member of the Nadal camp, one of my former writers tells me Rafa has been preping to try and put an end to Federer's run of wins against him ASAP, meaning in Montreal, should they make the final. Also, Rafa feels that his draw stacks up as one of the most challenging he's faced at a Masters level event this season.
> >
> > P
>
> Both guys do look to be on a collision course with their year so far and the way they looked in their opening matches. How long can this revival of a tennis classic fairytale last? I wouldn't mind if Rafa gets one back if Federer goes on and wins the US open.

I would mind. I'd like Fed to beat Rafa 10 more times if possible. That will make it 24-23.

[Whisper]

Of course Fed is the real No.1 today. Rafa can only have a legit claim
if he wins USO.



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[Carey]

Federer's thirty-six.

[*skriptis]

kaennorsing <ljub...@hotmail.com> Wrote in message:

That's not how the points work.

E.g. you're talking about locker room number 1, and Federer is
already that.

Whether Nadal replaces Murray as computer number 1 (most
consistent player in the past 52 weeks) is another matter.




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[Court_1]

As much as I root for Federer when he plays Nadal and some long awaited revenge has been nice to watch, I don't want to see any lopsided rivalries between all time great players. Federer appears to have Nadal's number off clay but I doubt Federer will beat Nadal the next 10 times in a row(if Nadal can make it to Federer in the first place) because I think Nadal's too good to let that happen. Remember the AO 2017 final was down to the wire.

Watching close finals between the two is more preferable to watching beatdowns either way for me. I want to see the battle between them and the element of surprise to be in play. It's much more satisfying that way IMO.

[stephenJ]

On 8/10/2017 11:40 AM, Patrick Kehoe wrote:
> Rafa has been "all business" since he arrived in Canada. Friends of mine who are covering the Rogers Cup in Montreal tell me he's been stone faced and focused all week so far, at practice, walking the grounds and with most of the media. The sense some are taking away from his keen business approach centers around the perception that Rafa sees the Rogers Cup as a likely showdown venue against Federer. Having spoken with a member of the Nadal camp, one of my former writers tells me Rafa has been preping to try and put an end to Federer's run of wins against him ASAP, meaning in Montreal, should they make the final. Also, Rafa feels that his draw stacks up as one of the most challenging he's faced at a Masters level event this season.
>
> P
>

This rings true. Rafa fumed over blown Wimbledon opportunity. He's in
full-blown GOAT mode and Fed is his target. He knows that while beating
Fed at a Super 9 lime Montreal won't advance formally advance him
towards that goal, it would be a big psychological boost for himself and
a blow to Fed, increasing Rafa's chances of winning an all-important USO
rematch.

Nadal has only one goal: To finish his career regarded as undisputed
GOAT. Beating Fed at slams is the only path forward on that.




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[PeteWasLucky]

Federer is tanking to save himself for the USO.

[Court_1]

On Thursday, August 10, 2017 at 4:28:24 PM UTC-4, PeteWasLucky wrote:
> Federer is tanking to save himself for the USO.

Yeah, he tanked so hard that he won the match! *rolls eyes*

He wasn't tanking. He played a poor match. It happens more often when you're 36! Why would he tank in Montreal? He didn't play the entire clay season so he's well rested. He's trying to find his groove on hard courts and trying to work his way into the tournament.

[PeteWasLucky]

> Why would he tank in Montreal?

It's useless for him, slow courts, balls are flying, doesn't add value to his preperation to the US Open.

Hope he loses.

[Carey]

On Thursday, August 10, 2017 at 3:17:59 PM UTC-7, PeteWasLucky wrote:

> It's useless for him, slow courts, balls are flying, doesn't add value to his preperation to the US Open.
>
> Hope he loses.

Based on what I saw of the Ferrer match, you might be right about all that.

[AZ]

On Friday, August 11, 2017 at 12:48:19 AM UTC+6, Court_1 wrote:
> As much as I root for Federer when he plays Nadal and some long awaited revenge has been nice to watch, I don't want to see any lopsided rivalries between all time great players. Federer appears to have Nadal's number off clay but I doubt Federer will beat Nadal the next 10 times in a row(if Nadal can make it to Federer in the first place) because I think Nadal's too good to let that happen. Remember the AO 2017 final was down to the wire.
>
> Watching close finals between the two is more preferable to watching beatdowns either way for me. I want to see the battle between them and the element of surprise to be in play. It's much more satisfying that way IMO.

Disagree. I am a Fed fan and I want him to beat Nadal over and over again. Prefererably not close matches. I had no problem Fed wiping the floor with Hewitt and Roddick. Same with Nadal. I am not a "close battle" fan just for the sake of it. If some of the matches are close, or all of them, or none of them, I don't care. All I care is that Fed beats him 10 in a row from here on. That's the ideal scenario for me. H2h in favor of Fed, overall.

[bob]

On Thu, 10 Aug 2017 09:40:58 -0700 (PDT), Patrick Kehoe
<pke...@telus.net> wrote:

>Rafa has been "all business" since he arrived in Canada. Friends of mine who are covering the Rogers Cup in Montreal tell me he's been stone faced and focused all week so far, at practice, walking the grounds and with most of the media. The sense some are taking away from his keen business approach centers around the perception that Rafa sees the Rogers Cup as a likely showdown venue against Federer. Having spoken with a member of the Nadal camp, one of my former writers tells me Rafa has been preping to try and put an end to Federer's run of wins against him ASAP, meaning in Montreal, should they make the final. Also, Rafa feels that his draw stacks up as one of the most challenging he's faced at a Masters level event this season.

rafa needs to focus on making the final first.

bob

[bob]

On Thu, 10 Aug 2017 10:42:53 -0700 (PDT), Carey <carey...@yahoo.com>
wrote:

>Federer's thirty-six.

40 is the new 30. i heard. :-)

bob

[PeteWasLucky]

> 40 is the new 30. i heard. :-)

And 30 is the new 20

[bob]

On Thu, 10 Aug 2017 16:28:17 -0700 (PDT), AZ <arnab....@gmail.com>
wrote:

you better be hopeful that rafa doesn't turn it around and win the
next 5. very well could happen.

bob

[Carey]

On Thursday, August 10, 2017 at 5:03:50 PM UTC-7, bob wrote:

> you better be hopeful that rafa doesn't turn it around and win the
> next 5. very well could happen.
>
> bob

Yep. Father Time won't be denied.

[Court_1]

Well don't worry because Nadal can't reach Federer, lol! Shapovalov is a STAR!

[Carey]

On Thursday, August 10, 2017 at 8:09:11 PM UTC-7, Court_1 wrote:

> Well don't worry because Nadal can't reach Federer, lol! Shapovalov is a STAR!

Yep, he is now.

[Giovanna]

Too bad he's already leaving :)

[SliceAndDice]

Its gotta be Federer vs Zverev for the title now. Can Shappy continue to surprise though?

[arahim]

On Thursday, August 10, 2017 at 4:44:04 PM UTC-7, PeteWasLucky wrote:
> > 40 is the new 30. i heard. :-)
>
> And 30 is the new 20

So a 20 year old just lost to an 8 year old?

[changj...@gmail.com]

It is a good news for Fed that Nadal was out. Again facing Nadal before the open, either win or lose, is a disadvantage IMO: a lose is certainly bad because it gives Nadal the needed confidence; a win doesn't add much (may actually lower the guard) and the younger opponent can still turn it around in the best of 5 match that demands a lasting concentration of the form. Now the chance to face Rafa be fore the open is cut half.
Question: if Fed wins Montreal, what does he need in Cinci to claim No.1 entering the open (for your scheduling advantage of the old man)? This question would probably depend on what Nadal get in Cinci (you have to assume Rafa would try the hardest in Cinci). I still think it is not wise for Fed to try too hard in Montreal and Cinci for No.1 benefit in Open unless he can get it with relative ease.

[changj...@gmail.com]

It is true. Unfortunately it'd be more likely to happen first in Slam matches because of the form of best of 5. The only way to bail him out is that players of next generations come to dominate. So far the only candidate is Zverev but it is highly doubtful that the new Kafelnikov will stop Nadal, Djok in foreseeable future.
It's why he should do whatever in this open, win or lose, when he still has a saying on the fate.

[Whisper]

On 11/08/2017 4:48 AM, Court_1 wrote:
> As much as I root for Federer when he plays Nadal and some long awaited revenge has been nice to watch, I don't want to see any lopsided rivalries between all time great players. Federer appears to have Nadal's number off clay but I doubt Federer will beat Nadal the next 10 times in a row(if Nadal can make it to Federer in the first place) because I think Nadal's too good to let that happen. Remember the AO 2017 final was down to the wire.
>

That's the difference between a normal Federer fan like yourself & rst
Fedfuckers. You acknowledge the obvious fact Rafa had a lead in the
final set & the match went down to the wire, while Fedfuckers say the
result was never in doubt & Fed smashed him.



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[ed scheuert]

While you Samprasfuckers (turned neo-Nadalfuckers) pretend that Wimbledon 2008 was a blowout in Rafa's favor. If you weren't the most hypocritical poster in this group, people might actually take you seriously.

[changj...@gmail.com]

That's not true. If you review the whole match, Fed did have an upper hand in general. Remember Sampras-Rafter Wimbledon final where many thought that Pete was lucky because Rafter almost got 2 sets, but when you looked at both sets before the tiebreak, Sampras did have an upper hand….
There could be one thing that worked against Rafa in that match: if you looked his way of lying on the ground at the end of his semi with Dimitrov, he acted like he won the slam. I guess that he miscalculated his chance based on his past results with Fed at AO and the fact that Fed just came back from 6 month break. Now it could be Fed's turn when people calling him goat birthday, practice with goat etc.. (a debatable word that should be restricted in this group, not used when a player is still playing). It is hard not to be gloating.

[AZ]

I cannot recall a single rst Fedfan that said AO 2017 was never in doubt for Fed. Your penchant for making up lies is pathological.

[AZ]

Good post.

[AZ]

On Thursday, August 10, 2017 at 10:41:08 PM UTC+6, Patrick Kehoe wrote:
> Rafa has been "all business" since he arrived in Canada. Friends of mine who are covering the Rogers Cup in Montreal tell me he's been stone faced and focused all week so far, at practice, walking the grounds and with most of the media. The sense some are taking away from his keen business approach centers around the perception that Rafa sees the Rogers Cup as a likely showdown venue against Federer. Having spoken with a member of the Nadal camp, one of my former writers tells me Rafa has been preping to try and put an end to Federer's run of wins against him ASAP, meaning in Montreal, should they make the final. Also, Rafa feels that his draw stacks up as one of the most challenging he's faced at a Masters level event this season.
>
> P

Lol poor Rafa just lost to a newcomer.

[Whisper]

It's also fitting they play at USO at least once. We've seen Nadal v
Djoker & Fed v Djoker at all 4 slams. Very strange we haven't yet seen
Fed v Nadal. It would be fitting to have a blockbuster 5 set final,
which may ultimately determine slam count king.

Right now Fed is fave. I'd go for 'beast mode' Rafa to win, but it's
not easy getting Rafa to that level.







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[*skriptis]

ed scheuert <bescheu...@gmail.com> Wrote in message:

Wimbledon 2008 was a close, true, but the thing is at the time,
every match they played was always close, and yet Nadal was
winning them.

I


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[Whisper]

Fed doesn't have sufficient variety in his game to combat the slight
differences between hardcourts. I'm glad we all are in agreeance on
something re Fed.

[Whisper]

On 11/08/2017 9:44 AM, PeteWasLucky wrote:
>> 40 is the new 30. i heard. :-)
>
> And 30 is the new 20
>
>

20 is the new 10? Explains why many of the young are so juvenile /stupid.

[John Liang]

That pretty much underline your bottom tier tennis analytical skill. If Federer has not sufficient variety in his game to combat the slight difference between hard courts then you will have to explain how did this guy win 7 time at Cincinnati, 5 times at Indian Wells, 3 times at Miami and twice at Canadian and once in Shanghai, then there is 5 AO and USO titles. So who in your opinion had better variety to combat the slight difference between hard courts ? Sampras won 3 times at Cincinatti, 2 times at Indian Wells and 3 times at Miami. Agassi won 13 MS hard court events and 6 grand slam on HC. Djoker is the only active player who won more master series title on HC but has 2 fewer HC slams.

[Whisper]

On 11/08/2017 8:10 PM, John Liang wrote:
> On Friday, August 11, 2017 at 7:04:11 PM UTC+10, Whisper wrote:
>> On 11/08/2017 9:03 AM, Carey wrote:
>>> On Thursday, August 10, 2017 at 3:17:59 PM UTC-7, PeteWasLucky wrote:
>>>
>>>> It's useless for him, slow courts, balls are flying, doesn't add value to his preperation to the US Open.
>>>>
>>>> Hope he loses.
>>>
>>>
>>> Based on what I saw of the Ferrer match, you might be right about all that.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Fed doesn't have sufficient variety in his game to combat the slight
>> differences between hardcourts. I'm glad we all are in agreeance on
>> something re Fed.
>>
>>
>>
>
>

> That pretty much underline your bottom tier tennis analytical skill. If Federer has not sufficient variety

er, Carey & PWL floated the idea. Tell them where they're going wrong.

[John Liang]

They said the surface is slow, PWL thinks because the surface is slow it is not the ideal warm up for USO as the surface speed in USO is faster, but neither of them said they agree with what you posted above.

[PeteWasLucky]

> er, Carey & PWL floated the idea. Tell them where they're going wrong.

lol, I didn't say this. I said it's useless for Federer's preparation for the US Open specially at 36 because it's slow and the balls are flying plus he will play Cinci which is a better prep for US open.

[stephenJ]

Agree, though he has done it before - Nadal was beastly at 2010 US Open,
one of his best events ever. Hopefully, he can do that again.





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[stephenJ]

On 8/11/2017 6:02 AM, PeteWasLucky wrote:
>> er, Carey & PWL floated the idea. Tell them where they're going wrong.
>
> lol, I didn't say this. I said it's useless for Federer's preparation for the US Open specially at 36 because it's slow and the balls are flying plus he will play Cinci which is a better prep for US open.
>

It's not useless. It's a hard court, and it's been a few months since
Fed played on one. Montreal is a good way for Fed to ease in to the US
Open series. He'll have zero problem adjusting to faster HCs.



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[Carey]

spinach

[Manuel aka Xax]

Le jeudi 10 août 2017 19:41:17 UTC+2, Whisper a écrit :

> On 11/08/2017 3:26 AM, kaennorsing wrote:
> > Op donderdag 10 augustus 2017 18:41:08 UTC+2 schreef Patrick Kehoe:

> >> Rafa has been "all business" since he arrived in Canada. Friends of mine who are covering the Rogers Cup in Montreal tell me he's been stone faced and focused all week so far, at practice, walking the grounds and with most of the media. The sense some are taking away from his keen business approach centers around the perception that Rafa sees the Rogers Cup as a likely showdown venue against Federer. Having spoken with a member of the Nadal camp, one of my former writers tells me Rafa has been preping to try and put an end to Federer's run of wins against him ASAP, meaning in Montreal, should they make the final. Also, Rafa feels that his draw stacks up as one of the most challenging he's faced at a Masters level event this season.
> >>
> >> P
> >

> > Both guys do look to be on a collision course with their year so far and the way they looked in their opening matches. How long can this revival of a tennis classic fairytale last? I wouldn't mind if Rafa gets one back if Federer goes on and wins the US open. Now imagine if Fed beats Rafa in the final... Rafa will be #1 on Monday but everyone will see Federer as the real #1, having won every masters and slam match this year so far.
> >
>
>

> Of course Fed is the real No.1 today. Rafa can only have a legit claim
> if he wins USO.

+1

Why are so many people (even here in France) so frenzy about the race position ?
Legacy wise, Federer has done twice as much as Nadal so far...

Since both are past 30 years old, I won't consider either M1000 records : Nole, Rafa & Fed have taken this M1000 chase to never imagined levels quite some years ago.
I wasn't expecting Agassi record to get *that* smashed, *that* quickly, to be honest.

[John Liang]

The interesting point is do you think he can return to the beast mode ? What chance do you give him to return to that mode ?

[PeteWasLucky]

> It's not useless. It's a hard court, and it's been a few months since
Fed played on one. Montreal is a good way for Fed to ease in to the US
Open series. He'll have zero problem adjusting to faster HCs.

It's useless, slow and will drain him and may get him injured.

He doesn't need too many HC matches, Cinci is enough, he won Wimb, Halle, AO, Miami, IND Wells.

He played only fast courts matches, his game is ready.

[Whisper]

Pretty decent. FO this yr may have been his best ever form so he has a
good shot.

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[Court_1]

On Friday, August 11, 2017 at 1:51:42 AM UTC-4, Whisper wrote:

Yes, the AO went down to the wire but Federer beat Nadal EASILY at IW and Miami. When Nadai is OFF clay, he's more vulnerable to many players and yet you had him beating Federer in straights if they met at Wimbledon! That was NOT going to happen and it won't happen if they meet at the USO. Clay Nadal and off clay Nadal are two different beasts.

[Court_1]

What are you talking about? IW and Miami are not fast hard courts.

You're overreacting as usual.

[Court_1]

On Friday, August 11, 2017 at 11:25:10 AM UTC-4, Whisper wrote:

> Pretty decent. FO this yr may have been his best ever form so he has a
> good shot.

What does his FO form have to do with his off clay form? That's where you're getting confused. Nadal needs these type of wins at the off clay tune-ups for his confidence. There is no good way to spin his loss vs Shapovalov yesterday. He said in his press conference it was his worst loss of the year!

[Whisper]

If he could produce arguably his best ever clay form this yr, then why
not his best ever off-clay form too? That's my logic.

[stephenJ]

IMO, pretty good. Looked pretty beastly at the FO. I think he's highly
motivated.

[stephenJ]

Yes. Fed's decision making has been perfect so far this year. If he
thinks playing Montreal is the right prep for the USO, I trust him.

[Court_1]

On Friday, August 11, 2017 at 11:39:21 AM UTC-4, Whisper wrote:
> On 12/08/2017 1:32 AM, Court_1 wrote:
> > On Friday, August 11, 2017 at 11:25:10 AM UTC-4, Whisper wrote:
> >
> >> Pretty decent. FO this yr may have been his best ever form so he has a
> >> good shot.
> >
> > What does his FO form have to do with his off clay form? That's where you're getting confused. Nadal needs these type of wins at the off clay tune-ups for his confidence. There is no good way to spin his loss vs Shapovalov yesterday. He said in his press conference it was his worst loss of the year!
> >
>
> If he could produce arguably his best ever clay form this yr, then why
> not his best ever off-clay form too? That's my logic.

Because he's a different animal on clay and off. He's vulnerable to a lot of players off clay and can get picked off early. He needed that win vs Shap and needed another win vs Federer off clay. With that said, he was getting a taste of his own medicine in that an 18 year old hot shot beat him which is exactly what HE did as a young 17 year old vs Federer back in the day! That's life.

[John Liang]

On Saturday, August 12, 2017 at 1:39:21 AM UTC+10, Whisper wrote:
> On 12/08/2017 1:32 AM, Court_1 wrote:
> > On Friday, August 11, 2017 at 11:25:10 AM UTC-4, Whisper wrote:
> >
> >> Pretty decent. FO this yr may have been his best ever form so he has a
> >> good shot.
> >
> > What does his FO form have to do with his off clay form? That's where you're getting confused. Nadal needs these type of wins at the off clay tune-ups for his confidence. There is no good way to spin his loss vs Shapovalov yesterday. He said in his press conference it was his worst loss of the year!
> >
>
> If he could produce arguably his best ever clay form this yr, then why
> not his best ever off-clay form too? That's my logic.

Was his performance at FO this year his best ever? I don't think so he cake walked the draw with pretty soft opposition. If he could produce his best ever on clay then why he couldn't produce his best form on grass ? Hang on you said he was going to thrash Federer in straight yet he lost to Muller. Nadal carried his best ever FO form into Wimbledon but got blow away, unless fast hard court play like clay I doubt he will perform up to your expectation.

[Court_1]

On Friday, August 11, 2017 at 11:43:41 AM UTC-4, StephenJ wrote:
> On 8/11/2017 10:28 AM, Court_1 wrote:
> > On Friday, August 11, 2017 at 10:03:35 AM UTC-4, PeteWasLucky wrote:
> >>> It's not useless. It's a hard court, and it's been a few months since
> >> Fed played on one. Montreal is a good way for Fed to ease in to the US
> >> Open series. He'll have zero problem adjusting to faster HCs.
> >>
> >> It's useless, slow and will drain him and may get him injured.
> >>
> >> He doesn't need too many HC matches, Cinci is enough, he won Wimb, Halle, AO, Miami, IND Wells.
> >>
> >> He played only fast courts matches, his game is ready.
> >
> > What are you talking about? IW and Miami are not fast hard courts.
> >
> > You're overreacting as usual.
> >
>
> Yes. Fed's decision making has been perfect so far this year. If he
> thinks playing Montreal is the right prep for the USO, I trust him.

Especially now with Nadal losing early and screwing up his chances for #1.

[PeteWasLucky]

> Pretty decent. FO this yr may have been his best ever form so he has a
good shot.

Yes that form that allowed him to beat Federer in the final is str8 sets.

[PeteWasLucky]

> Especially now with Nadal losing early and screwing up his chances for #1.

Federer didn't need points in Canada. Indoor HC season is all his with YEC.

[Whisper]

AO is hardcourt & he was very close to beating Fed in the final there.
Rafa has done better at USO than AO. That's how Rafa is approaching
USO. He may lose 1st rd or go on to win. We'll have to watch & see how
he plays.

[Court_1]

On Friday, August 11, 2017 at 12:16:19 PM UTC-4, PeteWasLucky wrote:
> > Especially now with Nadal losing early and screwing up his chances for #1.
>
> Federer didn't need points in Canada. Indoor HC season is all his with YEC.

You never know though how he'll look in the indoor hc season or if he'll be injured or out of sorts. You have to strike while the iron is hot and that's what he's doing. Smart move with Nadal going down early.

[PeteWasLucky]

> You never know though how he'll look in the indoor hc season or if he'll be injured or out of sorts. You have to strike while the iron is hot and that's what he's doing. Smart move with Nadal going down early.

Six US open chance won't come again.

[Court_1]

On Friday, August 11, 2017 at 12:34:00 PM UTC-4, PeteWasLucky wrote:
> > You never know though how he'll look in the indoor hc season or if he'll be injured or out of sorts. You have to strike while the iron is hot and that's what he's doing. Smart move with Nadal going down early.
>
> Six US open chance won't come again.

He KNOWS that. Chillax!

[bob]

On Thu, 10 Aug 2017 20:09:10 -0700 (PDT), Court_1
<olymp...@yahoo.com> wrote:

>On Thursday, August 10, 2017 at 7:28:19 PM UTC-4, AZ wrote:

>> On Friday, August 11, 2017 at 12:48:19 AM UTC+6, Court_1 wrote:
>> > As much as I root for Federer when he plays Nadal and some long awaited revenge has been nice to watch, I don't want to see any lopsided rivalries between all time great players. Federer appears to have Nadal's number off clay but I doubt Federer will beat Nadal the next 10 times in a row(if Nadal can make it to Federer in the first place) because I think Nadal's too good to let that happen. Remember the AO 2017 final was down to the wire.
>> >

>> > Watching close finals between the two is more preferable to watching beatdowns either way for me. I want to see the battle between them and the element of surprise to be in play. It's much more satisfying that way IMO.
>>
>> Disagree. I am a Fed fan and I want him to beat Nadal over and over again. Prefererably not close matches. I had no problem Fed wiping the floor with Hewitt and Roddick. Same with Nadal. I am not a "close battle" fan just for the sake of it. If some of the matches are close, or all of them, or none of them, I don't care. All I care is that Fed beats him 10 in a row from here on. That's the ideal scenario for me. H2h in favor of Fed, overall.
>
>Well don't worry because Nadal can't reach Federer, lol! Shapovalov is a STAR!

you love these canadian players so much i'd almost say you're a devout
nationalist.

bob

[kaennorsing]

Op vrijdag 11 augustus 2017 10:57:27 UTC+2 schreef Whisper:

The USO surface should be one of the most favorable for Fed to play Rafa. He's been unlucky he never got the chance to play him there. Remember, until 2013 Rafa never beat Fed in the post-Wimbledon part of the season. And only once before that.

> Right now Fed is fave. I'd go for 'beast mode' Rafa to win, but it's
> not easy getting Rafa to that level.

If their great 2017 level continues it does not matter what mode Rafa sets on. Fed has his number. This is not clay.

[kaennorsing]

Op vrijdag 11 augustus 2017 15:21:21 UTC+2 schreef Manuel aka Xax:

The Masters got watered down too much since 2007 to hold the same value as before. Smaller draws (fewer matches to win for the top seeds), more seeds (less chance of meeting top guys early) and no more 5 set finals (less draining events). That's why it became so much easier to stack up these titles for the top guys. Comparing Sampras/Agassi's (and even Fed's numbers) to Djoker and Rafa's is apples to oranges.

[TT]

BS

[stephenJ]

Actually, he's right about all that.

---

[stephenJ]

Yes, anyone who discounts Nadal's USO chances doesn't know his history.
It's just dumb.




---

[Court_1]

On Sunday, August 20, 2017 at 2:07:20 PM UTC-4, StephenJ wrote:

> Yes, anyone who discounts Nadal's USO chances doesn't know his history.
> It's just dumb.

I'm not completely discounting Nadal's chances at the USO. I just don't feel confident that he will win it the way I did in 2013. As I said, his draw will be of critical importance.

[Court_1]

On Sunday, August 20, 2017 at 2:07:20 PM UTC-4, StephenJ wrote:

> Yes, anyone who discounts Nadal's USO chances doesn't know his history.
> It's just dumb.

Also, speaking about his RECENT history at the USO--he lost in the last two years to Pouille in the R16 and Fognini in the R32. Is that the kind of history you're talking about? *rolls eyes*

[Manco]

LOL, so much for taking care of business in Canada/Cincy.

[TT]

Let's note here that it was YOU who was talking up Rafa's chances recently.

[TT]

No he is not. If anything the participation is more universal now.

Also, it's actually harder for best players to win a 2 set match than 5
set match.

[Court_1]

Yes, but then I saw him play in Montreal and Cinci and I don't like his chances at the USO after watching those events. I take it one week at a time and things can change fast.

[Court_1]

On Sunday, August 20, 2017 at 3:11:24 PM UTC-4, TT wrote:

> No he is not. If anything the participation is more universal now.
>
> Also, it's actually harder for best players to win a 2 set match than 5
> set match.

LOL.

[TT]

What's so funny about it?
OF COURSE the better player is less likely to be upset on a 5-setter...

[John Liang]

The same crowd also thought he was going to beat Federer in straight sets at Wimbledon only if he carry his FO form into Wimbledon. Talking about history did you take into Nadal's history in the last four years at Wimbledon to assess his chance at Wimbledon. Nadal won USO in 2010 when he also won at FO and then Wimbledon and in 2013 he cleaned up the event at Canadian Master and also won Cincci before USO, so he was the form player on those two occassions. I don't think he had any form leading into this year's USO, if history is your guide then he won 5 matches in 2 USO, an average of two matches in the last three times he played in Canada and Cincci.

[ahonkan]

Some of you will never learn.
Remember Wimbledon? The usual suspects were parroting the usual crap
"he will lose early or go all the way and win" (which is true for every
single player!) following his superb clay season.
They were clinging to his ancient history (5 straight finals 2006-2011)
ignoring his 4 consecutive early exits thereafter. We know what happened.

Rafa at AO: Played: 12, W: 1, F: 3, S: 1, Q: 4 Last 5: F-R1-Q-F-F (DNP 13)
Rafa at USO:Played: 12, W: 2, F: 1, S: 2, Q: 1 Last 5: R4-R3-W-F-W (DNP 12,14)
It's hard to say he's better at USO when he has reached the second week just
6 times in 12 tries (and not the last 2 times he played) while he has
made it to the 2nd week at AO 9 times in 12 tries (incl this year).

[ahonkan]

And the prize for the most original / absurd observation in Tennis goes to:

On Sunday, 20 August 2017 15:11:24 UTC-4, TT wrote:

> Also, it's actually harder for best players to win a 2 set match than 5
> set match.

So I suppose Gilles Muller, Lucas Pouille, Fernando Verdasco, Fabio Fognini,
Lukas Rosol etc are better players than Nadal for they beat him in 5-setters!
Till 2010, Rafa was an impressive 10-2 in 5-setters in the slams. Since 2011,
he's an unimpressive 5-7 in 5-setters. So TT's observation is plain absurd,
unless he believes all those worthies (Rafa has also lost 5-setters to Fed
& Djoker in addition to the 5 above) are superior to Rafa!

[Carey]

Ahh, logic-bombs... nothing like 'em. :)

[TT]

That's not what I meant, I wrote it poorly. What I meant was:

It's more difficult for best players to win in best of 3 than best of 5.
(because longer format favours the better player)

[*skriptis]

TT <as...@dprk.kp> Wrote in message:

Yes, but not only in a way you're suggesting, e.g. more time spent
on court, more points required to win, less of a fluke factor
etc.

Better players are also favoured in,best of 5 because those
matches are rare, e.g. only in slams/dc.

Being rare events, the top guys that go deep in slams are more
accustomed to it, physically and mentally. Most of the tour is
adapted to best of 3.

So top guys, playing best of 5, have sort of advantage over the
others similar to the advantage Federer has playing at centre
court. Familiarity, routine.


--


----Android NewsGroup Reader----
http://usenet.sinaapp.com/

[TT]

That's probably true too.

[SliceAndDice]

This is a great point. I believe this is also one of the reasons that is slowing the younger guys from having slam breakthroughs, simply because they have very little experience with 5-setters outside of the slams. I was against the ATP changing the Masters finals from best of 5, still am.

[arahim]

On Friday, August 11, 2017 at 1:57:27 AM UTC-7, Whisper wrote:
> On 11/08/2017 5:03 AM, stephenJ wrote:
> > On 8/10/2017 11:40 AM, Patrick Kehoe wrote:

> >> Rafa has been "all business" since he arrived in Canada. Friends of
> >> mine who are covering the Rogers Cup in Montreal tell me he's been
> >> stone faced and focused all week so far, at practice, walking the
> >> grounds and with most of the media. The sense some are taking away
> >> from his keen business approach centers around the perception that
> >> Rafa sees the Rogers Cup as a likely showdown venue against Federer.
> >> Having spoken with a member of the Nadal camp, one of my former
> >> writers tells me Rafa has been preping to try and put an end to
> >> Federer's run of wins against him ASAP, meaning in Montreal, should
> >> they make the final. Also, Rafa feels that his draw stacks up as one
> >> of the most challenging he's faced at a Masters level event this season.
> >>
> >> P
> >>
> >
> >

> > This rings true. Rafa fumed over blown Wimbledon opportunity. He's in
> > full-blown GOAT mode and Fed is his target. He knows that while beating
> > Fed at a Super 9 lime Montreal won't advance formally advance him
> > towards that goal, it would be a big psychological boost for himself and
> > a blow to Fed, increasing Rafa's chances of winning an all-important USO
> > rematch.
> >
> > Nadal has only one goal: To finish his career regarded as undisputed
> > GOAT. Beating Fed at slams is the only path forward on that.
> >
> >
>
>
>
> It's also fitting they play at USO at least once. We've seen Nadal v
> Djoker & Fed v Djoker at all 4 slams. Very strange we haven't yet seen
> Fed v Nadal. It would be fitting to have a blockbuster 5 set final,
> which may ultimately determine slam count king.
>

With the rankings what they are currently the matchup could be a potential semifinal. With Nadal ranked one and Federer at three they can be in the same half of the draw.

> Right now Fed is fave. I'd go for 'beast mode' Rafa to win, but it's
> not easy getting Rafa to that level.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

> ---
> This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
> http://www.avg.com

[arahim]

On Friday, August 11, 2017 at 9:03:44 AM UTC-7, Court_1 wrote:
> On Friday, August 11, 2017 at 11:43:41 AM UTC-4, StephenJ wrote:
> > On 8/11/2017 10:28 AM, Court_1 wrote:
> > > On Friday, August 11, 2017 at 10:03:35 AM UTC-4, PeteWasLucky wrote:
> > >>> It's not useless. It's a hard court, and it's been a few months since
> > >> Fed played on one. Montreal is a good way for Fed to ease in to the US
> > >> Open series. He'll have zero problem adjusting to faster HCs.
> > >>
> > >> It's useless, slow and will drain him and may get him injured.
> > >>
> > >> He doesn't need too many HC matches, Cinci is enough, he won Wimb, Halle, AO, Miami, IND Wells.
> > >>
> > >> He played only fast courts matches, his game is ready.
> > >
> > > What are you talking about? IW and Miami are not fast hard courts.
> > >
> > > You're overreacting as usual.
> > >
> >
> > Yes. Fed's decision making has been perfect so far this year. If he
> > thinks playing Montreal is the right prep for the USO, I trust him.
>
> Especially now with Nadal losing early and screwing up his chances for #1.

Nadal has reached number one.

[kaennorsing]

Op zondag 20 augustus 2017 21:11:24 UTC+2 schreef TT:

Really? Show me evidence of this, or I call it BS... Where were Federer, Djoker and Murray last couple of weeks?

> Also, it's actually harder for best players to win a 2 set match than 5
> set match.

That's beside the point, dummy. The best players generally get to the finals where they only play b03 sets these days. That makes them fresher for next week's events. So the fact is the masters are much easier to win for the top guys than yesteryears. That's also why the results are the way they are.

[TT]

Check out schedules of past players...

>> Also, it's actually harder for best players to win a 2 set match than 5
>> set match.
>
> That's beside the point, dummy.

No it is not, dummy.

It's not like Sampras & Agassi met in every masters final.

The best players generally get to the finals where they only play b03
sets these days. That makes them fresher for next week's events. So the
fact is the masters are much easier to win for the top guys than
yesteryears. That's also why the results are the way they are.
>

Sampras got to 19 masters finals in his career. 1,7 per year.
9/19 were BO5.
3 matches went to 5th set.

One of those three five set matches was Sampras d. Korda at Indian
Wells. Sampras was 1-2 sets down and managed to win 3-2 because of the
BO5 format. Went on to win next tournament as well, which was 1994 Miami
where he beat Agassi 2-1. Makes a good argument that Sampras actually
benefited from the format.

[kaennorsing]

Op dinsdag 22 augustus 2017 21:10:45 UTC+2 schreef TT:

Nice cherrypicking results and extrapolation out of your ass. Doesn't change the fact it's easier to win these thing than 10+ years ago, given the watering down (fewer top players, sets and matches in the schedule) for top players. No amount of cherrypicking can change that.

[*skriptis]

kaennorsing <ljub...@hotmail.com> Wrote in message:

But past guys haven't played these events with such interest nor
the tour was structured like that to make it "a must thing" for
them.

It was obvious that e.g. if you're having Federer and Nadal
playing 5 setter in Rome final that you won't see both of them in
Hamburg/Madrid which started tomorrow.

Something had to be done and they opted for best of 3 finals.

[MBDunc]

keskiviikko 23. elokuuta 2017 13.27.08 UTC+3 *skriptis kirjoitti:
> But past guys haven't played these events with such interest nor
> the tour was structured like that to make it "a must thing" for
> them.

Yep, there was a fundamental difference with best-14 (pre-2000) and mandatory events schemes (2000->). Also those mandatory events (GS, Master series) got not only money but significant ranking points boosts.

> It was obvious that e.g. if you're having Federer and Nadal
> playing 5 setter in Rome final that you won't see both of them in
> Hamburg/Madrid which started tomorrow.
>
> Something had to be done and they opted for best of 3 finals.

That is totally fine.

I am still not sure about their ongoing four-games/set trials. Could be eventually good as my strong internal resistances are essentially all about nostalgic (non-sense).

https://www.atpworldtour.com/en/news/rule-changes-innovation-for-next-gen-atp-finals-2017

But if I have to bet....I think that in 10 years non-slam/non-dc tournaments are being run with this format.

.mikko

[stephenJ]

Before this year's AO, Fed's "recent" history was zero slam wins in 4
1/2 years. No AO titles in 7 years.

[ahonkan]

On Wednesday, 23 August 2017 10:06:11 UTC-4, StephenJ wrote:

> Before this year's AO, Fed's "recent" history was zero slam wins in 4
> 1/2 years. No AO titles in 7 years.
>

True. But don't forget that he had won it *5* times before and made SF
*5* of the last 6 years from 2011-2016. He had just 1 loss in R3 in 6 years.
So he was always knocking on the doors and losing only to Rafa/ Djoker/ Murray.
BIG difference! I guess you remember the kind of players Rafa has been losing
at slams off clay during that period.

[RaspingDrive]

Also the popular misconception that Rafa goes on to win *often* when he reaches the second week. On non-clay surfaces he won 5 finals in 25 appearances in the 4th round or beyond.

[Court_1]

On Wednesday, August 23, 2017 at 10:06:11 AM UTC-4, StephenJ wrote:
> On 8/20/2017 1:23 PM, Court_1 wrote:

>
> Before this year's AO, Fed's "recent" history was zero slam wins in 4
> 1/2 years. No AO titles in 7 years.

True but generally speaking, Federer wasn't crashing out to every Tom, Dick and Harry in earlier rounds. He was mostly making it to the business end of slams, i.e. SF. The past two years Nadal lost in the 3rd and 4th rounds at the USO to journeymen.

But, you are correct that Nadal is playing better this year and it's a new year. A lot will depend on his draw. If he has a favorable draw and if he plays lights out and aggressively for two weeks, he may be able to go far.