connors/mcenroe

bob

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Jul 31, 2016, 5:11:32 AM7/31/16

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OYYUtb4GUHE&list=PLOduVfmLKuKdyKAepdldfTFDaYOZ4Mhr-&index=7

bob

Scott

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Jul 31, 2016, 12:07:09 PM7/31/16

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Connors deserved a DQ there.

Gracchus

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Jul 31, 2016, 12:19:39 PM7/31/16

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On Sunday, July 31, 2016 at 9:07:09 AM UTC-7, Scott wrote:

> Connors deserved a DQ there.

Connors and McEnroe rarely got disqualified. They knew they could get away with almost anything.

The body language says a lot in this clip. McEnroe didn't want to back down when Connors was in his face, but he was half-turning from Connors at times, looking down, or fiddling with his racquet strings. Connors was facing him openly the whole time. Yet years later, Mac said he always felt he could "take" Connors if it ever came to fisticuffs. Sure doesn't look like it here.

Scott

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Jul 31, 2016, 12:23:21 PM7/31/16

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I saw this live on TV. I agree with your thoughts. But where Mac would yell at officials, he never got into an opponent's face like Connors here.

The Iceberg

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Jul 31, 2016, 12:36:45 PM7/31/16

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On Sunday, 31 July 2016 17:07:09 UTC+1, Scott wrote:
> Connors deserved a DQ there.

what was he so annoyed about?

Scott

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Jul 31, 2016, 12:38:51 PM7/31/16

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My recollection is Mac delayed play by arguing a call at length

bob

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Jul 31, 2016, 1:27:41 PM7/31/16

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that's how the body language looks, i agree. mac did give a shove, but
only when connors was approaching physical contact.

i have a rumor that they actually did get into a locker room fight
once, i need to dig into that.

bob

Scott

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Jul 31, 2016, 4:45:05 PM7/31/16

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A lot of people would assume Connors would win a fight with Mac but not me. Mac was fiery as Hell.

Gracchus

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Jul 31, 2016, 4:57:54 PM7/31/16

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On Sunday, July 31, 2016 at 1:45:05 PM UTC-7, Scott wrote:

> A lot of people would assume Connors would win a fight with Mac but not me. Mac was fiery as Hell.

Mac was fiery as a tennis competitor and in verbal confrontation. It doesn't mean it would translate into winning hand-to-hand combat. There's no clear size advantage between the two, and Connors always seemed a lot more willing. He was the kind to go up against a larger opponent even when he might get knocked on his ass. Not the case with McEnroe IMO.

Scott

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Jul 31, 2016, 5:08:27 PM7/31/16

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I still think a DQ was called for. What Connors did was clearly aggression and outside the rules.

Gracchus

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Jul 31, 2016, 5:11:21 PM7/31/16

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On Sunday, July 31, 2016 at 2:08:27 PM UTC-7, Scott wrote:

> I still think a DQ was called for. What Connors did was clearly aggression and outside the rules.

Sure it was. But those two knew they could make their own rules. How many DQs between them in their careers I wonder.

Carey

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Jul 31, 2016, 5:27:56 PM7/31/16

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Actually Mac was substantially taller than Connors. I'm just a hair under 6'
and was standing next to him at the Pacific Southwest in '81 or 82 watching a doubles match, and he was about the same height as me. Connors was listed
at 5'10", but wasn't that tall. As for those two getting into it though,
I agree that Connors would probably be the tougher customer.

Scall5

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Jul 31, 2016, 5:45:00 PM7/31/16

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"Gracchus" wrote in message
news:57668050-e21b-4eb8...@googlegroups.com...

*************

I can't remember the year (later in Mac's career) but at the US Open after a
doubles match one of Mac's opponents was telling him "Meet me in the locker
room and we will finish this." It was pretty clear that Mac had no desire
to go to the locker room and get his butt kicked. So he called for the
tournament officials.
-----------------------------
Scall5

Gracchus

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Jul 31, 2016, 5:52:19 PM7/31/16

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I remember that. I think it was Scott Davis and whoever his doubles partner was.

Gracchus

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Jul 31, 2016, 5:57:55 PM7/31/16

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Interesting. It's hard to tell their respective sizes on television. I've seen both play live as well, but not against each other. And of course physical size often doesn't tell the whole story when it comes to fights. People who had to fight a lot growing up are naturally better at it, and more skittish if they haven't. Look at someone like baseball's Billy Martin, who got into a lot of fights. He wasn't big at all, but often did ok (sucker-punching the marshmallow salesman doesn't count).

Carey

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Jul 31, 2016, 6:07:19 PM7/31/16

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Probably David Pate. Quite a doubles team they were.

Some more Mac/ Connors memories: I saw them play an exo at the Forum in LA.
We got there early and were able to sneak up close to courtside.
Just watching the warmup was amazing! One of them put a ball in play and
they must have hit that same ball, harder and harder, for minutes, or
so it seemed. Another thing was being surprised by just how much work
*Connors* put on his serve. I wondered before that why it didn't get
attacked more, then I saw. Mac's groundies were just fine, btw.
Don't remember who won the match.

bob

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Jul 31, 2016, 6:26:26 PM7/31/16

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connors also reprimanded mac at FO, pointing fingers in faces. i
believe across net though. and IMO lendl was intimidated by connors.

bob

bob

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Jul 31, 2016, 6:28:47 PM7/31/16

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ahah. growing up in detroit, martin was a big hero for the community!
that's a name i haven't heard in a while.

bob

Shakes

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Jul 31, 2016, 6:30:53 PM7/31/16

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I agree with you. Mac, for the most part, seemed a bully - tough against guys whom he could get his way with, who he knew were soft at heart.

bob

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Jul 31, 2016, 6:31:42 PM7/31/16

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On Sun, 31 Jul 2016 15:07:17 -0700 (PDT), Carey <carey...@yahoo.com>

connors put a lot of work into each shot IMO. he didn't have the
naturally fluid shots, fairly flat groundies, and he really had to put
some body into each shot to get any pace. same for his serve (not the
flatness, but just the work required).

bob

Carey

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Jul 31, 2016, 7:27:27 PM7/31/16

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On Sunday, July 31, 2016 at 3:31:42 PM UTC-7, bob wrote:
> On Sun, 31 Jul 2016 15:07:17 -0700 (PDT), Carey

Yeah, I agree. I didn't make clear that Connors was *slicing the hell*
out of the serve. He had the flattest groundies I've ever seen, too.
And that BH was just sensational. I wish he and Agassi had been contemporaries.. I think Connors would have beaten him. Pure speculation.

Oh, and *Patti Connors* was at that exo I mentioned. Ooh la la, what a hottie. Seeing her might have been the best part.. :)

Gracchus

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Jul 31, 2016, 7:35:33 PM7/31/16

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On Sunday, July 31, 2016 at 4:27:27 PM UTC-7, Carey wrote:

> Oh, and *Patti Connors* was at that exo I mentioned. Ooh la la, what a hottie. Seeing her might have been the best part.. :)

When Connors married a Playboy bunny, I never expected it would end up lasting for 30-some years and counting. Remember when he punched that guy who tried to kiss her at a tournament?

Guypers

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Jul 31, 2016, 7:44:18 PM7/31/16

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LOL, nothing on the side, only Bill does that!

Carey

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Jul 31, 2016, 7:48:48 PM7/31/16

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No, I either never knew that or totally forgot, probably the former.

Go Bad-ass Jimbo!

bob

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Jul 31, 2016, 8:47:04 PM7/31/16

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On Sun, 31 Jul 2016 16:27:26 -0700 (PDT), Carey <carey...@yahoo.com>

i watched jimmy practice one time for a good hour. he was hitting with
a high school age kid at the old lipton tournament, and hitting mostly
BHs. over and over and over. hard, flat, 1" net clearance. i was like
how does it always clear by an inch? but against borg, i recall he
caught a lot of tape while borg had that 2' topspin clearance..

>Oh, and *Patti Connors* was at that exo I mentioned. Ooh la la, what a hottie. Seeing her might have been the best part.. :)

bob

Carey

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Jul 31, 2016, 9:01:49 PM7/31/16

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Here's Mac, doing some talking:

http://content.usatoday.com/communities/gameon/post/2011/08/john-mcenroe-fight-jimmy-connors-ivan-lendl/1

Scall5

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Jul 31, 2016, 10:17:53 PM7/31/16

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"Gracchus" wrote in message
news:1d77ac16-cad3-4be2...@googlegroups.com...

**************

Connors grew up in East St. Louis, a rough place! I would assume he was
pretty good at fighting...
-----------------------------
Scall5

Whisper

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Aug 1, 2016, 4:57:55 AM8/1/16

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On 1/08/2016 9:27 AM, Carey wrote:
> On Sunday, July 31, 2016 at 3:31:42 PM UTC-7, bob wrote:
>> On Sun, 31 Jul 2016 15:07:17 -0700 (PDT), Carey
>>>

>>> Some more Mac/ Connors memories: I saw them play an exo at the Forum in LA.
>>> We got there early and were able to sneak up close to courtside.
>>> Just watching the warmup was amazing! One of them put a ball in play and
>>> they must have hit that same ball, harder and harder, for minutes, or
>>> so it seemed. Another thing was being surprised by just how much work
>>> *Connors* put on his serve. I wondered before that why it didn't get
>>> attacked more, then I saw. Mac's groundies were just fine, btw.
>>> Don't remember who won the match.
>>
>> connors put a lot of work into each shot IMO. he didn't have the
>> naturally fluid shots, fairly flat groundies, and he really had to put
>> some body into each shot to get any pace. same for his serve (not the
>> flatness, but just the work required).
>>
>> bob
>
> Yeah, I agree. I didn't make clear that Connors was *slicing the hell*
> out of the serve.

Yes I never focussed on it but you're right, Jimbo did put a lot of
'work' on a lot of his shots. It's that extra 'rip' that made him
tougher to play against.

> He had the flattest groundies I've ever seen, too.

Yeah, he & Seles.

> And that BH was just sensational. I wish he and Agassi had been contemporaries.. I think Connors would have beaten him. Pure speculation.

I agree. Old or new equipment I'd still give Jimbo the edge. Mentally
he was tougher than Agassi.

Whisper

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Aug 1, 2016, 5:07:58 AM8/1/16

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I kinda like Serena's chances against these guys.

bob

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Aug 1, 2016, 8:43:37 AM8/1/16

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On Mon, 1 Aug 2016 19:07:55 +1000, Whisper <beav...@ozemail.com.au>
wrote:

>
>
>I kinda like Serena's chances against these guys.

:-)

bob

Carey

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Aug 1, 2016, 12:26:50 PM8/1/16

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On Monday, August 1, 2016 at 1:57:55 AM UTC-7, Whisper wrote:

>
> > And that BH was just sensational. I wish he and Agassi had been contemporaries.. I think Connors would have beaten him. Pure speculation.
>
>
> I agree. Old or new equipment I'd still give Jimbo the edge. Mentally
> he was tougher than Agassi.

Connors and early-to-mid career Hewitt were the two toughest, in my book.

I'm sure Gonzales was up there but I never saw him, though I did have an
an older friend (WWII paratrooper, hard as nails) who played him and lost
5 and 5. He said (very nasally pronouncing Gonzales' name) "Pancho was the
toughest sonofabitch I've ever seen."