Muguruza, Venus beaten ...

[stephenJ]

:( :( :(

---
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[PeteWasLucky]

Venus played horrible.

[stephenJ]

> On 6/4/2017 11:12 AM, PeteWasLucky wrote:
> Venus played horrible.
>

She really did. Match was totally there for the taking. Awful.

[calim...@gmx.de]

On Sunday, June 4, 2017 at 6:06:39 PM UTC+2, StephenJ wrote:
> :( :( :(


Superclown era.


Max

[bob]

On Sun, 4 Jun 2017 09:12:27 -0700 (PDT), PeteWasLucky
<waleed...@gmail.com> wrote:

>Venus played horrible.

horribly.

bob

[PeteWasLucky]

Correct, really bad.
It was like they were both inviting each other to take the match.

[soccerfan777]

Bwhahahahaha....great. are there any slam winners left now?

[bob]

On Sun, 4 Jun 2017 10:48:24 -0700 (PDT), PeteWasLucky
<waleed...@gmail.com> wrote:

>Correct, really bad.

badly. :-)

don't mind me. :-)

>It was like they were both inviting each other to take the match.

bob

[PeteWasLucky]

> badly. :-)

I meant she was in a bad form.

[stephenJ]

Forget it max, we said Bye Bye to Steffi months ago, LOL!

[bob]

can't take a joke...

bob

[PeteWasLucky]

> can't take a joke...

Why? Did my reply upset him and he hired you to speak for him? :)

[Whisper]

I can't recall a slam draw where there were no slam winners still alive
by q/f?


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[calim...@gmx.de]

On Monday, June 5, 2017 at 1:17:22 AM UTC+2, StephenJ wrote:
> On 6/4/2017 12:28 PM, calim...@gmx.de wrote:
> > On Sunday, June 4, 2017 at 6:06:39 PM UTC+2, StephenJ wrote:
> >> :( :( :(
> >
> >
> > Superclown era.
> >
>
> Forget it max, we said Bye Bye to Steffi months ago, LOL!
>
>

You said bye, bye to Steffi already when she took away Navratilova's #1 spot in 1988.


Max

[stephenJ]

On 6/5/2017 6:11 AM, calim...@gmx.de wrote:
> On Monday, June 5, 2017 at 1:17:22 AM UTC+2, StephenJ wrote:
>> On 6/4/2017 12:28 PM, calim...@gmx.de wrote:
>>> On Sunday, June 4, 2017 at 6:06:39 PM UTC+2, StephenJ wrote:
>>>> :( :( :(
>>>
>>>
>>> Superclown era.
>>>
>>
>> Forget it max, we said Bye Bye to Steffi months ago, LOL!
>>
>>
>

> You said bye, bye to Steffi already ...

Bye Bye Steffi !!! :)

[bob]

if you still don't get it no pt discussing it further.

bob

[bob]

On Mon, 5 Jun 2017 08:05:46 -0500, stephenJ <sja...@cox.net> wrote:

>On 6/5/2017 6:11 AM, calim...@gmx.de wrote:
>> On Monday, June 5, 2017 at 1:17:22 AM UTC+2, StephenJ wrote:
>>> On 6/4/2017 12:28 PM, calim...@gmx.de wrote:
>>>> On Sunday, June 4, 2017 at 6:06:39 PM UTC+2, StephenJ wrote:
>>>>> :( :( :(
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Superclown era.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Forget it max, we said Bye Bye to Steffi months ago, LOL!
>>>
>>>
>>
>> You said bye, bye to Steffi already ...
>
>Bye Bye Steffi !!! :)

she had a good run. :-)

bob

[stephenJ]

Yes, and really, since all records are made to be broken, you can argue
the best open era run, as she was the open era GOAT* for more than 20
years, from 1996-2017. Serena has only had that title for 4 months now.

In contrast, Court had it for 14 years, Evert about 5 years, MN about 9
years.



*if we ignore Seles stabbing, of course, and we can't honestly do that.
But if.

[calim...@gmx.de]

On Wednesday, June 7, 2017 at 4:11:38 PM UTC+2, StephenJ wrote:
> On 6/6/2017 7:44 PM, bob wrote:
> > On Mon, 5 Jun 2017 08:05:46 -0500, stephenJ <sja...@cox.net> wrote:
> >
> >> On 6/5/2017 6:11 AM, calim...@gmx.de wrote:
> >>> On Monday, June 5, 2017 at 1:17:22 AM UTC+2, StephenJ wrote:
> >>>> On 6/4/2017 12:28 PM, calim...@gmx.de wrote:
> >>>>> On Sunday, June 4, 2017 at 6:06:39 PM UTC+2, StephenJ wrote:
> >>>>>> :( :( :(
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Superclown era.
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Forget it max, we said Bye Bye to Steffi months ago, LOL!
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>> You said bye, bye to Steffi already ...
> >>
> >> Bye Bye Steffi !!! :)
> >
> > she had a good run. :-)
>
> Yes, and really, since all records are made to be broken, you can argue
> the best open era run, as she was the open era GOAT* for more than 20
> years, from 1996-2017. Serena has only had that title for 4 months now.
>

She hasn't. Even if we ignore that Serena won more than 60 % of her slams after Enna's retirement in 2008 (that is the "Wozniacki/Azarenka/Kerber Era"). Which we honestly can't.

So outside of Africa and Trumpland (USA except the coastal regions) Steffi is still the GOAT, ahead of Court and Navratilova.


Max

[stephenJ]

On 6/7/2017 1:11 PM, calim...@gmx.de wrote:
> On Wednesday, June 7, 2017 at 4:11:38 PM UTC+2, StephenJ wrote:
>> On 6/6/2017 7:44 PM, bob wrote:
>>> On Mon, 5 Jun 2017 08:05:46 -0500, stephenJ <sja...@cox.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 6/5/2017 6:11 AM, calim...@gmx.de wrote:
>>>>> On Monday, June 5, 2017 at 1:17:22 AM UTC+2, StephenJ wrote:
>>>>>> On 6/4/2017 12:28 PM, calim...@gmx.de wrote:
>>>>>>> On Sunday, June 4, 2017 at 6:06:39 PM UTC+2, StephenJ wrote:
>>>>>>>> :( :( :(
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Superclown era.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Forget it max, we said Bye Bye to Steffi months ago, LOL!
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> You said bye, bye to Steffi already ...
>>>>
>>>> Bye Bye Steffi !!! :)
>>>
>>> she had a good run. :-)
>>
>> Yes, and really, since all records are made to be broken, you can argue
>> the best open era run, as she was the open era GOAT* for more than 20
>> years, from 1996-2017. Serena has only had that title for 4 months now.
>>
>
> She hasn't.

Bye Bye Steffi !!!! HAhahahaha !!! :)

[DavidW]

On 8/06/2017 6:09 AM, stephenJ wrote:
> Bye Bye Steffi !!!! HAhahahaha !!! :)

Nope. Steffi is the GOAT.

[stephenJ]

On 6/7/2017 4:18 PM, DavidW wrote:
> On 8/06/2017 6:09 AM, stephenJ wrote:
>> Bye Bye Steffi !!!! HAhahahaha !!! :)
>
> Nope.

Bye Bye Steffi and her Dumb Seffi Graf Fans !!!! BWahwahahahaha!

[soccerfan777]

Bye bye Serena!

[bob]

On Wed, 7 Jun 2017 14:56:39 -0700 (PDT), soccerfan777
<zepf...@gmail.com> wrote:

>Bye bye Serena!

??

bob

[soccerfan777]

bye bye until she comes back

[nani3...@hotmail.com]

On Monday, June 5, 2017 at 2:13:14 AM UTC-7, Whisper wrote:
> I can't recall a slam draw where there were no slam winners still alive
> by q/f?
>

Wimbledon 2003.

[DavidW]

On 8/06/2017 7:25 AM, stephenJ wrote:
> On 6/7/2017 4:18 PM, DavidW wrote:
>> On 8/06/2017 6:09 AM, stephenJ wrote:
>>> Bye Bye Steffi !!!! HAhahahaha !!! :)
>>
>> Nope.
>
> Bye Bye Steffi and her Dumb Seffi Graf Fans !!!! BWahwahahahaha!

Serena doesn't even have a CYGS, let alone a golden one. Steffi is still
the one.

[Court_1]

As somebody who dislikes Graf and Williams equally, no Graf is not the GOAT any longer. Williams is.

[Court_1]

She'll be back and probably win another slam or two. Who is going to beat her? Halep?

[stephenJ]

On 6/7/2017 7:46 PM, DavidW wrote:
> On 8/06/2017 7:25 AM, stephenJ wrote:
>> On 6/7/2017 4:18 PM, DavidW wrote:
>>> On 8/06/2017 6:09 AM, stephenJ wrote:
>>>> Bye Bye Steffi !!!! HAhahahaha !!! :)
>>>
>>> Nope.
>>
>> Bye Bye Steffi and her Dumb Seffi Graf Fans !!!! BWahwahahahaha!
>
> Serena doesn't even have a CYGS

Bye Bye Steffi !!!! LMAO at these dumb-arse GraFans!!!

[stephenJ]

Don't argue with these dumb Grafans, they are just bitter that Steffi
was blown past. Pointless.

[calim...@gmx.de]

Why this?
And why can someone dislike such a nice person like Graf?


Max

[calim...@gmx.de]

On Thursday, June 8, 2017 at 6:21:18 AM UTC+2, StephenJ wrote:
> On 6/7/2017 10:36 PM, Court_1 wrote:
> > On Wednesday, June 7, 2017 at 5:18:25 PM UTC-4, DavidW wrote:
> >> On 8/06/2017 6:09 AM, stephenJ wrote:
> >>> Bye Bye Steffi !!!! HAhahahaha !!! :)
> >>
> >> Nope. Steffi is the GOAT.
> >
> > As somebody who dislikes Graf and Williams equally, no Graf is not the GOAT any longer. Williams is.
> >
>
> Don't argue with these dumb Grafans, they are just bitter that Steffi
> was blown past. Pointless.
>

Not bitter but slightly amused.
In which regard has Williams blown past Graf? Number of slams?
Well, that department wasn't important at all so long as it was about MN/CE vs. Court and Graf in the GOAT race. And now suddenly .... ?

Let me guess - MN, CE and SW are Americans?


Max

[stephenJ]

On 6/8/2017 1:28 AM, calim...@gmx.de wrote:
> On Thursday, June 8, 2017 at 6:21:18 AM UTC+2, StephenJ wrote:
>> On 6/7/2017 10:36 PM, Court_1 wrote:
>>> On Wednesday, June 7, 2017 at 5:18:25 PM UTC-4, DavidW wrote:
>>>> On 8/06/2017 6:09 AM, stephenJ wrote:
>>>>> Bye Bye Steffi !!!! HAhahahaha !!! :)
>>>>
>>>> Nope. Steffi is the GOAT.
>>>
>>> As somebody who dislikes Graf and Williams equally, no Graf is not the GOAT any longer. Williams is.
>>>
>>
>> Don't argue with these dumb Grafans, they are just bitter that Steffi
>> was blown past. Pointless.
>>
>
> Not bitter but slightly amused.

It's wonderful: In the end, after 15 years of bickering about it, Graf
was beaten, surpassed in the GOAT/Legacy standings. In the end, the
stabber didn't get away with it, the GraFans lost, Steffi lost. She'll
forever be Open Era #2!

Over and done with! That's the way it finished up.

Bye Bye Steffi !!!!! Gone Baby Gone!!! LMAO!

[calim...@gmx.de]

On Thursday, June 8, 2017 at 12:21:53 PM UTC+2, StephenJ wrote:
> On 6/8/2017 1:28 AM, calim...@gmx.de wrote:
> > On Thursday, June 8, 2017 at 6:21:18 AM UTC+2, StephenJ wrote:
> >> On 6/7/2017 10:36 PM, Court_1 wrote:
> >>> On Wednesday, June 7, 2017 at 5:18:25 PM UTC-4, DavidW wrote:
> >>>> On 8/06/2017 6:09 AM, stephenJ wrote:
> >>>>> Bye Bye Steffi !!!! HAhahahaha !!! :)
> >>>>
> >>>> Nope. Steffi is the GOAT.
> >>>
> >>> As somebody who dislikes Graf and Williams equally, no Graf is not the GOAT any longer. Williams is.
> >>>
> >>
> >> Don't argue with these dumb Grafans, they are just bitter that Steffi
> >> was blown past. Pointless.
> >>
> >
> > Not bitter but slightly amused.
>
> It's wonderful: In the end, after 15 years of bickering about it, Graf

> was beaten, surpassed in the GOAT/Legacy standings. ...

By whom?
Williams ... ?
With no Golden Grand Slam?
With tons of slam final wins against Safarovas, Muguruzas, Haleps, Wozniackis, Kerbers ...?
While fighting against Jankovices, Ivanisevics, Safinas, Azarenkas, Kvitovas for #1 ...... ?

Lolol


Max

[StephenJ]

On 6/8/2017 1:50 PM, calim...@gmx.de wrote:
> On Thursday, June 8, 2017 at 12:21:53 PM UTC+2, StephenJ wrote:
>> On 6/8/2017 1:28 AM, calim...@gmx.de wrote:
>>> On Thursday, June 8, 2017 at 6:21:18 AM UTC+2, StephenJ wrote:
>>>> On 6/7/2017 10:36 PM, Court_1 wrote:
>>>>> On Wednesday, June 7, 2017 at 5:18:25 PM UTC-4, DavidW wrote:
>>>>>> On 8/06/2017 6:09 AM, stephenJ wrote:
>>>>>>> Bye Bye Steffi !!!! HAhahahaha !!! :)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Nope. Steffi is the GOAT.
>>>>>
>>>>> As somebody who dislikes Graf and Williams equally, no Graf is not the GOAT any longer. Williams is.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Don't argue with these dumb Grafans, they are just bitter that Steffi
>>>> was blown past. Pointless.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Not bitter but slightly amused.
>>
>> It's wonderful: In the end, after 15 years of bickering about it, Graf
>> was beaten, surpassed in the GOAT/Legacy standings. ...
>
> By whom?

Sorry Max, you LOST! LMAO !!!

BYE BYE STEFFI !!!!! :)

[StephenJ]

Must mean men's side, because not the women that year.

[bob]

On Wed, 7 Jun 2017 23:28:05 -0700 (PDT), calim...@gmx.de wrote:

>On Thursday, June 8, 2017 at 6:21:18 AM UTC+2, StephenJ wrote:
>> On 6/7/2017 10:36 PM, Court_1 wrote:
>> > On Wednesday, June 7, 2017 at 5:18:25 PM UTC-4, DavidW wrote:
>> >> On 8/06/2017 6:09 AM, stephenJ wrote:
>> >>> Bye Bye Steffi !!!! HAhahahaha !!! :)
>> >>
>> >> Nope. Steffi is the GOAT.
>> >
>> > As somebody who dislikes Graf and Williams equally, no Graf is not the GOAT any longer. Williams is.
>> >
>>
>> Don't argue with these dumb Grafans, they are just bitter that Steffi
>> was blown past. Pointless.
>>
>
>Not bitter but slightly amused.
>In which regard has Williams blown past Graf? Number of slams?
>Well, that department wasn't important

it sure was important to you when federer got to 15.

bob

[bob]

she got to 23. as a grafan, i thought steffi's record would hold
especially as serena was aging w/out the slam count. but she put up
the #s past 5 yrs, can't take it away. serena gets my nod for GOAT
begrudgingly.

but all in all, saw history made twice now, and serena's seemed to
have mellowed just slightly as she aged, so i won't complain.

bob

[StephenJ]

What's funny is that Max is very wrong about the import of slam numbers.
Ever since she surpassed Evert and MN at 18 slams, I've always said that
*if* you ignored the Seles stabbing and went just on court
accomplishments, Graf was clearly the Open Era GOAT. That was based on
slams won, and that was clearly the consensus among everyone, really**.
So to act like somehow the goalposts have been changed against Steffi is
absurd.

** There were some, including Graf herself, that said MN was #1, but
that was arrived at by adding in MN's doubles accomplishments. Even
those people acknowledged Graf as the #1 singles player, as she had won
the most singles slams. Heck, if we throw in stuff like Gold Medals and
doubles, Serena wipes out Graf by an even larger margin.

[heyg...@gmail.com]

The most impressive Serena stat for me is that she's played 51 slam or olympic final matches across all disciplines and only lost 8 times. That's unreal to me. Graf, for comparison, is 24-13. 84% vs 64% with slam/olympic titles on the line. Navratilova is 59-26 (69%).

[calim...@gmx.de]

On Friday, June 9, 2017 at 12:58:15 PM UTC+2, StephenJ wrote:
> On 6/8/2017 7:44 PM, bob wrote:
> > On Wed, 7 Jun 2017 23:28:05 -0700 (PDT), calim...@gmx.de wrote:
> >
> >> On Thursday, June 8, 2017 at 6:21:18 AM UTC+2, StephenJ wrote:
> >>> On 6/7/2017 10:36 PM, Court_1 wrote:
> >>>> On Wednesday, June 7, 2017 at 5:18:25 PM UTC-4, DavidW wrote:
> >>>>> On 8/06/2017 6:09 AM, stephenJ wrote:
> >>>>>> Bye Bye Steffi !!!! HAhahahaha !!! :)
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Nope. Steffi is the GOAT.
> >>>>
> >>>> As somebody who dislikes Graf and Williams equally, no Graf is not the GOAT any longer. Williams is.
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>> Don't argue with these dumb Grafans, they are just bitter that Steffi
> >>> was blown past. Pointless.
> >>>
> >>
> >> Not bitter but slightly amused.
> >> In which regard has Williams blown past Graf? Number of slams?
> >> Well, that department wasn't important
> >
> > it sure was important to you when federer got to 15.
>
>
> What's funny is that Max is very wrong about the import of slam numbers.
> Ever since she surpassed Evert and MN at 18 slams, I've always said that
> *if* you ignored the Seles stabbing and went just on court
> accomplishments, Graf was clearly the Open Era GOAT. That was based on
> slams won, and that was clearly the consensus among everyone, really**.
> So to act like somehow the goalposts have been changed against Steffi is
> absurd.
>
> ** There were some, including Graf herself, that said MN was #1, but

> that was arrived at by adding in MN's doubles accomplishments. ....

No. What people like you don't understand is that it is not only about numbers, especially not only about slams won.
It is about the play, the style, Golden Grand Slams, the competition, number of memorable matches, character, role model qualification, grace, social engagement, the opposition, numbers of all-time greats playing at the same time, fan base, off-court behaviour, intelligence, comparable success in a shorter time, sexiness, dignity and a lot more.

Max

[calim...@gmx.de]

When Graf was off-form she still made at least the finals. Serena however then bombs out in earlier rounds.

To take those stats to bolster Serena's claim???

Let me guess - ....


Max

[heyg...@gmail.com]

The last 10 years of their careers Serena and Graf both won about 40% of the slams they played (that's the whole of the 90s for Graf).

[StephenJ]

I agree. It is super-impressive how dominant Serena has been in the
semis and finals. When the silver (or gold) ware is on the table, she's
extremely difficult to stop.

[StephenJ]

Remember how soft Graf's draws were. Tons of matches vs little girls who
hit 50 mph serves. Anyone could make finals in the 90s so not all that
meaningful?

I any event ... BYE BYE STEFFI !!!!!! :)

[StephenJ]

wank wank wank says the loser with FEWER SLAMS ... LMAO !!!! BYE BYE
STEFFI !!!!!

:)

[calim...@gmx.de]

Super-impressive which girls Serena beat in the finals of her last 11 slam wins!

Sharapova, Azarenka, 37-year-old sister were the greatest of them.
Plus Zvonareva, Radwanska, Wozniacki, Muguruza, Kerber, Safarovas.

Truly top-tier opposition.

Lolololololol ......


Max

[calim...@gmx.de]

Kimiko Date wasn't good enough to make slam finals in the 90s.
But good enough to beat 5 slam winners of the Serena era. At age 40plus ....

I mean, even a Trumper should realise what this says about Serena's opposition.


Max

[StephenJ]

LMAO!!! Graf beat Mary Jo Fernandez type little girls in 90s!

BYE BYE STEFFI !!!!!! LMAO!!!

[StephenJ]

That's right, 11, to make 23 total!

BYE BYE STEFFI !!!!!! LMAO !!!!! :)

[calim...@gmx.de]

Steffi beat Hingis, Seles (3), Sabatini (2). Navratilova (4), Sanchez (5), Evert in 16 of her 22 slams.
Serena beat mostly Kerber, Safarova, Jankovic, Muguruza, Sharapova, Zvonareva, Azarenka,, Radwanska, Wozniacki. Types which will be forgotten in 10 years from now.
Writing this down even I myself am surprised by the glaring difference in quality there.

Is it Serena's fault that she had no opposition for the major part of her career? Of course not. It would have been interesting to watch her play against a wily young and fresh Kimiko Date for instance!

Max

[StephenJ]

ROFLMAO! Seles was #1 until GraFan Stabber did her in!

BYE BYE STEFFI !!!!!!! LMAO !!!!