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Pliskova wins Porsche open

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soccerfan777

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Apr 29, 2018, 12:31:32 PM4/29/18
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And a nice red Boxter GTS.

She made Coco cry...lol. I didn't know the truck driver could cry

Calimero

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Apr 29, 2018, 12:35:04 PM4/29/18
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On Sunday, April 29, 2018 at 6:31:32 PM UTC+2, soccerfan777 wrote:
> And a nice red Boxter GTS.
>
> She made Coco cry...lol. I didn't know the truck driver could cry


"Boxter"?
Butchering German names is typical for Americans.

Let me guess - you are an American citizen now?


Max

soccerfan777

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Apr 29, 2018, 12:37:17 PM4/29/18
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Just a typo...Boxster. relax.

Calimero

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Apr 29, 2018, 12:58:44 PM4/29/18
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On Sunday, April 29, 2018 at 6:37:17 PM UTC+2, soccerfan777 wrote:
> Just a typo...Boxster. relax.

I just want to wind up the US nationalists here ...


Max

soccerfan777

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Apr 29, 2018, 1:03:39 PM4/29/18
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Are you a globalist Max?

Calimero

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Apr 29, 2018, 1:20:12 PM4/29/18
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On Sunday, April 29, 2018 at 7:03:39 PM UTC+2, soccerfan777 wrote:
> Are you a globalist Max?


Yes, because the globalism of the last 50 years has improved the lives of humans beyond any imagination. You should know this. Ask your parents how life was in India 40 years ago. Compare this to life in India today.


Max

*skriptis

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Apr 29, 2018, 2:36:26 PM4/29/18
to
Calimero <calim...@gmx.de> Wrote in message:
> On Sunday, April 29, 2018 at 7:03:39 PM UTC+2, soccerfan777 wrote:
>> Are you a globalist Max?
>
>
> Yes, because the globalism of the last 50 years has improved the lives of humans beyond any imagination. You should know this. Ask your parents how life was in India 40 years ago. Compare this to life in India today.


India was far more globalised when they were part of Britain.


--


----Android NewsGroup Reader----
http://usenet.sinaapp.com/

Calimero

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Apr 29, 2018, 3:30:23 PM4/29/18
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On Sunday, April 29, 2018 at 8:36:26 PM UTC+2, *skriptis wrote:
> Calimero <calim...@gmx.de> Wrote in message:
> > On Sunday, April 29, 2018 at 7:03:39 PM UTC+2, soccerfan777 wrote:
> >> Are you a globalist Max?
> >
> >
> > Yes, because the globalism of the last 50 years has improved the lives of humans beyond any imagination. You should know this. Ask your parents how life was in India 40 years ago. Compare this to life in India today.
>
>
> India was far more globalised when they were part of Britain.


You don't understand was globalism is.
Like almost all Russkies.


Max

bob

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Apr 29, 2018, 3:57:57 PM4/29/18
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On Sun, 29 Apr 2018 09:37:15 -0700 (PDT), soccerfan777
<zepf...@gmail.com> wrote:

>Just a typo...Boxster. relax.

why waste bandwidth on a piece of junk like the boxster anyway? i mean
really.

bob

Calimero

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Apr 29, 2018, 4:05:29 PM4/29/18
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It is a great car. A friend of mine drives one. She is a banker and has enough money.
Not a car for people like you, Bobbie ...


Max

soccerfan777

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Apr 29, 2018, 4:53:50 PM4/29/18
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Blue collar losers like boobsie can not even dream of that car.

soccerfan777

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Apr 29, 2018, 4:55:53 PM4/29/18
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I agree with you Max. Globalism is progression and nationalism is regressive.

*dipshit is a regressive Nazi nationalist.

bob

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Apr 29, 2018, 4:59:59 PM4/29/18
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? the boxster is fairly cheap in USA, i could've saved some nice $ if
it'd bought one instead. but it's a junkster, not a boxster, everybody
here knows that. 911 perhaps.

bob

Calimero

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Apr 29, 2018, 5:03:53 PM4/29/18
to
Yeah sure, Bobby boy, you are such a high roller ...
Our US affiliate should hire you. The best and the brightest from Texas.

Lol

MAGA!!


Max

soccerfan777

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Apr 29, 2018, 5:04:53 PM4/29/18
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Come on don't insult Texas. Bob is most likely from Alabummer

soccerfan777

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Apr 29, 2018, 5:09:10 PM4/29/18
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This is not the basic boxster, you dunkoff. The Porsche Pliskova drove off is probably 150k minimum

*skriptis

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Apr 29, 2018, 5:28:34 PM4/29/18
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soccerfan777 <zepf...@gmail.com> Wrote in message:
> I agree with you Max. Globalism is progression and nationalism is regressive.
>
> *dipshit is a regressive Nazi nationalist.
>


Tell that to Gandhi you weirdo.

bob

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Apr 29, 2018, 5:41:23 PM4/29/18
to
On Sun, 29 Apr 2018 14:03:52 -0700 (PDT), Calimero
<calim...@gmx.de> wrote:

>On Sunday, April 29, 2018 at 10:59:59 PM UTC+2, bob wrote:
>> On Sun, 29 Apr 2018 13:05:28 -0700 (PDT), Calimero
>> <calim...@gmx.de> wrote:
>>
>> >On Sunday, April 29, 2018 at 9:57:57 PM UTC+2, bob wrote:
>> >> On Sun, 29 Apr 2018 09:37:15 -0700 (PDT), soccerfan777
>> >> <zepf...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> >Just a typo...Boxster. relax.
>> >>
>> >> why waste bandwidth on a piece of junk like the boxster anyway? i mean
>> >> really.
>> >>
>> >> bob
>> >
>> >
>> >It is a great car. A friend of mine drives one. She is a banker and has enough money.
>> >Not a car for people like you, Bobbie ...
>>
>> ? the boxster is fairly cheap in USA, i could've saved some nice $ if
>> it'd bought one instead. but it's a junkster, not a boxster, everybody
>> here knows that. 911 perhaps.
>>
>> bob
>
>
>Yeah sure, Bobby boy, you are such a high roller ...

who said high roller? but surely i wouldn't buy a junkster like the
boxster. i'm surprised your own cheatin lyin emmission frauding german
car companies like VW/Audi/Porsche still fool you that a boxster
should even be on the road.

no, i'm a greenie, i drive electric. just ask pelle he'll tell you
what an environmentalist i am.

>Our US affiliate should hire you. The best and the brightest from Texas.

i'm not a legal assistant, maybe try raja.

>Lol
>MAGA!!

bob

bob

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Apr 29, 2018, 5:42:54 PM4/29/18
to
On Sun, 29 Apr 2018 14:09:09 -0700 (PDT), soccerfan777
<zepf...@gmail.com> wrote:

>This is not the basic boxster, you dunkoff. The Porsche Pliskova drove off is probably 150k minimum

VW = Porsche = Audi = emission frauding junksters.

i owned 4 audis in my life, not 1 didn't leak oil < 1 yr. junks. never
again to german junk! and the boxster? you must know 0 about cars.

bob

bob

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Apr 29, 2018, 6:14:10 PM4/29/18
to
did they provide her a tow truck also?

bob

joh

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Apr 29, 2018, 7:34:08 PM4/29/18
to
Op zondag 29 april 2018 23:42:54 UTC+2 schreef bob:
You don't seem too sharp yourself.


> bob

jdeluise

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Apr 29, 2018, 7:58:57 PM4/29/18
to
On Sun, 29 Apr 2018 17:41:21 -0400, bob wrote:

> no, i'm a greenie, i drive electric. just ask pelle he'll tell you what
> an environmentalist i am.

I'll admit you're a "Pruitt environmentalist".

bob

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Apr 29, 2018, 9:23:25 PM4/29/18
to
On Sun, 29 Apr 2018 16:34:07 -0700 (PDT), joh <josh...@gmail.com>
wrote:
nor you. at least if that's the best you can do.

bob

bob

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Apr 29, 2018, 9:24:18 PM4/29/18
to
i said many times i'd have never chosen pruitt. would you like me to
tell you again personally?

bob

soccerfan777

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Apr 29, 2018, 11:08:45 PM4/29/18
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Gandhi was not a nationalist you motherfucker.He actually supported the partition of India, you fucking sheep swagger. You are the worst pits of the world to bring Gandhi in here

Guypers

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Apr 30, 2018, 12:28:21 AM4/30/18
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On Sunday, April 29, 2018 at 11:08:45 PM UTC-4, soccerfan777 wrote:
> Gandhi was not a nationalist you motherfucker.He actually supported the partition of India, you fucking sheep swagger. You are the worst pits of the world to bring Gandhi in here

Gandhi opposed the partition of India according to the movie!

Shakes

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Apr 30, 2018, 1:30:34 AM4/30/18
to
On Sunday, April 29, 2018 at 9:28:21 PM UTC-7, Guypers wrote:

> Gandhi opposed the partition of India according to the movie!

That's true. Gandhi originally opposed the partition of India. Nehru, Jinnah wanted it. Gandhi even went on a hunger strike. That's based on what I read.

joh

unread,
Apr 30, 2018, 1:45:52 AM4/30/18
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Op maandag 30 april 2018 03:23:25 UTC+2 schreef bob:
Let's just say I'd have gotten the message after the 3rd Audi.

*skriptis

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Apr 30, 2018, 8:10:06 AM4/30/18
to
Shakes <kvcs...@gmail.com> Wrote in message:
> On Sunday, April 29, 2018 at 9:28:21 PM UTC-7, Guypers wrote:
>
>> Gandhi opposed the partition of India according to the movie!
>
> That's true. Gandhi originally opposed the partition of India. Nehru, Jinnah wanted it. Gandhi even went on a hunger strike. That's based on what I read.



The point is Gandhi was a nationalist, wanting independent India,
so he was definitely a patriot, it doesn't matter if he strived
for religiously unified greater Indian subcontinent pushing for
some kind of syncreticism or him becoming more pragmatic with
time realizing distinctively Hindu-majority country would be more
sustainable and have a greater social cohesion.

In both cases it's nationalism. Of different kinds, but it was
India first always.

So to say Gandhi was a globalist, or, not a nationalist, you have
to have raja-level IQ.

soccerfan777

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Apr 30, 2018, 11:06:27 AM4/30/18
to
On Monday, April 30, 2018 at 7:10:06 AM UTC-5, *skriptis wrote:
> Shakes <kvcs...@gmail.com> Wrote in message:
> > On Sunday, April 29, 2018 at 9:28:21 PM UTC-7, Guypers wrote:
> >
> >> Gandhi opposed the partition of India according to the movie!
> >
> > That's true. Gandhi originally opposed the partition of India. Nehru, Jinnah wanted it. Gandhi even went on a hunger strike. That's based on what I read.
>
>
>
> The point is Gandhi was a nationalist,

And the point is you are wrong. Gandhi spent 21 years in South Africa and was fluent in English. He thought non-violence was the best way of achieving freedom. He was a great visionary.

He respected all religions and was tolerant to all cultures. He considered Hindus, Muslims and Christians his brothers. He didn't even hate the English. He just wanted them to free India.

He loved the minorities. He wanted to eliminate castism. He has a hardcore liberal.

Trump OTOH is intolerant of other cultures and religion. He hates Muslims and minorities. And is not a liberal by any means.


> wanting independent India,
> so he was definitely a patriot,

A patriot need not be a nationalist and vice versa.

>it doesn't matter if he strived
> for religiously unified greater Indian subcontinent

No he did not. You doofus. He wanted Hindus and Muslims to live together. But the Muslims of the Northeast did not want to and formed their own country. In fact India has close to 200 million Muslims now.

Not all Muslims are the same. Some are fanatics and some are extremely tolerant of other religions. The Muslims in India are more or less extremely liberal and consider India to be their home country. Most of the top actors of Bollywood and other India film industries are Muslim. We had a well respected Muslim President. Try that in America, it will never happen.


>pushing for
> some kind of syncreticism or him becoming more pragmatic with
> time realizing distinctively Hindu-majority country would be more
> sustainable and have a greater social cohesion.
>
> In both cases it's nationalism. Of different kinds, but it was
> India first always.
>
> So to say Gandhi was a globalist, or, not a nationalist, you have
> to have raja-level IQ.
>
You are just not an fucking idiot, but also a dangerous asshole. You should be banned.

soccerfan777

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Apr 30, 2018, 11:11:34 AM4/30/18
to
Yes he did oppose it initially. But when he saw the riots at the West Pakistan border, he went with it. He didnt want people dying whether Hindus or Muslims.

Nehru did not want partition either initially. And even Jinnah was forced into asking for a separate country by the Muslim league. Jinnah was a liberal and very Western and did not like the mullahs radicalizing Pakistan. Unfortunately he died soon after the partition and Pakistan slowly went to shit.


https://herald.dawn.com/news/1153717


Qasmi. Coming back to The Sole Spokesman, people say different things about Jinnah- that he was secular even when the Pakistan Movement had strong Islamic overtones . There are others who say Jinnah himself was Islamic and he wanted to establish an Islamic state...

Jalal. It was a political movement. Whatever an Islamic state means is another debate. I mean, what kind of Islamic state are you referring to? Are you referring to one run by the mullahs? Well, that was clearly not what Jinnah had in mind. When Nawab Bahadur Yar Jung tried to force him to commit to an Islamic state in 1943, he resisted and said the Constitution of Pakistan would be what the representatives of the people wanted, what the people of Pakistan wanted.

soccerfan777

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Apr 30, 2018, 11:13:03 AM4/30/18
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He probably bought 20 year old used Audis. Anyway I own a Merc and used to own a BMW. Both are fantastic. Boobs can go to hell.

*skriptis

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Apr 30, 2018, 12:49:59 PM4/30/18
to
soccerfan777 <zepf...@gmail.com> Wrote in message:
> On Monday, April 30, 2018 at 7:10:06 AM UTC-5, *skriptis wrote:
>> Shakes <kvcs...@gmail.com> Wrote in message:
>> > On Sunday, April 29, 2018 at 9:28:21 PM UTC-7, Guypers wrote:
>> >
>> >> Gandhi opposed the partition of India according to the movie!
>> >
>> > That's true. Gandhi originally opposed the partition of India. Nehru, Jinnah wanted it. Gandhi even went on a hunger strike. That's based on what I read.
>>
>>
>>
>> The point is Gandhi was a nationalist,
>
> And the point is you are wrong. Gandhi spent 21 years in South Africa and was fluent in English. He thought non-violence was the best way of achieving freedom. He was a great visionary.


What does fluency have to do with anything? Yeah and in his time
in south Africa?

https://thewire.in/history/gandhi-and-africans

Yet you have no shame criticizing Trump, who never said such stuff?
Are you a troll?



> He respected all religions and was tolerant to all cultures. He considered Hindus, Muslims and Christians his brothers. He didn't even hate the English. He just wanted them to free India.


He was a nationalist and a patriot but both kinda wise, realising
British were too powerful, and also somewhat of a chicken so he
didn't led the armed insurgency like Mao Tse-Tung, Castro, or
Tito. He wasn't alpha, but ok.

And it's stupid to consider Hindus, Christians and Muslims as
brothers. If we're all the same, and you like everyone the same,
do you really even love the ones that are close to you? How do
you love your own, if you love everyone the same?

If you like all the colors the same, then what's your favorite color?

That's a very important philosophical question.




> He loved the minorities. He wanted to eliminate castism. He has a hardcore liberal.

So is Trump.


> Trump OTOH is intolerant of other cultures and religion. He hates Muslims and minorities. And is not a liberal by any means.

Trump married two Slavic non-American women and also gave his
daughter to a Jew and signed a maga hat to Kanye West. How is
that intolerant to minorities?

I think his personal life demonstrates more openness than yours,
living in USA but ordering a wife from back home.



As for the ridiculous travel ban, it's not a Muslim thing. It's
identity politics Hillary/Obama brainwashing that confuses you.


It's math, just as with police profiling. If certain demographics
are statistically more likely to commit crimes, it's your duty to
address the issue, not to pretend that all of them pose the same
risk, and that e.g. Japanese guy is as likely to blow himself up
as is a Muslim guy.

Aren't you some kind of engineer and understand stats? Probably
not considering you have Lendl on top.




>> wanting independent India,
>> so he was definitely a patriot,
>
> A patriot need not be a nationalist and vice versa.


That's essentially the same thing. The root of the words are the
same and similar. It's just gay virtue signaling, using term
patriotism over nationalism. One just "sounds more
PC".




>>it doesn't matter if he strived
>> for religiously unified greater Indian subcontinent
>
> No he did not. You doofus. He wanted Hindus and Muslims to live together. But the Muslims of the Northeast did not want to and formed their own country. In fact India has close to 200 million Muslims now.

Good for you.


> Not all Muslims are the same. Some are fanatics and some are extremely tolerant of other religions. The Muslims in India are more or less extremely liberal and consider India to be their home country. Most of the top actors of Bollywood and other India film industries are Muslim. We had a well respected Muslim President. Try that in America, it will never happen.


Why would America have a Muslim president? Care to explain that?

When will India have a Russian orthodox president? And why should
it have one in the first place?

soccerfan777

unread,
Apr 30, 2018, 12:59:45 PM4/30/18
to
On Monday, April 30, 2018 at 11:49:59 AM UTC-5, *skriptis wrote:
> soccerfan777 <zepf...@gmail.com> Wrote in message:
> > On Monday, April 30, 2018 at 7:10:06 AM UTC-5, *skriptis wrote:
> >> Shakes <kvcs...@gmail.com> Wrote in message:
> >> > On Sunday, April 29, 2018 at 9:28:21 PM UTC-7, Guypers wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> Gandhi opposed the partition of India according to the movie!
> >> >
> >> > That's true. Gandhi originally opposed the partition of India. Nehru, Jinnah wanted it. Gandhi even went on a hunger strike. That's based on what I read.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> The point is Gandhi was a nationalist,
> >
> > And the point is you are wrong. Gandhi spent 21 years in South Africa and was fluent in English. He thought non-violence was the best way of achieving freedom. He was a great visionary.
>
>
> What does fluency have to do with anything? Yeah and in his time
> in south Africa?
>
> https://thewire.in/history/gandhi-and-africans
>
> Yet you have no shame criticizing Trump, who never said such stuff?
> Are you a troll?
>
>
>
> > He respected all religions and was tolerant to all cultures. He considered Hindus, Muslims and Christians his brothers. He didn't even hate the English. He just wanted them to free India.
>
>
> He was a nationalist and a patriot but both kinda wise, realising
> British were too powerful, and also somewhat of a chicken so he

Gandhi a chicken? Fuck off.

> didn't led the armed insurgency like Mao Tse-Tung, Castro, or
> Tito. He wasn't alpha, but ok.
>
> And it's stupid to consider Hindus, Christians and Muslims as
> brothers. If we're all the same, and you like everyone the same,
> do you really even love the ones that are close to you? How do
> you love your own, if you love everyone the same?

I have very close Christian and Muslims friends. And I dont see anything wrong with them.
Why not? There are a lot of Muslim Americans who are citizens. Also Hindu Americans who are also citizens.

>
> When will India have a Russian orthodox president?

Why not if he is a naturalized India. Sonia Gandhi was elected Indian Prime Minister and she is Italian who is naturalized as an Indian citizen.

*skriptis

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Apr 30, 2018, 6:49:05 PM4/30/18
to
So you agree?

Fine then.

The Iceberg

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May 1, 2018, 5:59:40 PM5/1/18
to
On Monday, 30 April 2018 16:06:27 UTC+1, soccerfan777 wrote:
> On Monday, April 30, 2018 at 7:10:06 AM UTC-5, *skriptis wrote:
> > Shakes <kvcs...@gmail.com> Wrote in message:
> > > On Sunday, April 29, 2018 at 9:28:21 PM UTC-7, Guypers wrote:
> > >
> > >> Gandhi opposed the partition of India according to the movie!
> > >
> > > That's true. Gandhi originally opposed the partition of India. Nehru, Jinnah wanted it. Gandhi even went on a hunger strike. That's based on what I read.
> >
> >
> >
> > The point is Gandhi was a nationalist,
>
> And the point is you are wrong. Gandhi spent 21 years in South Africa and was fluent in English. He thought non-violence was the best way of achieving freedom. He was a great visionary.
>
> He respected all religions and was tolerant to all cultures. He considered Hindus, Muslims and Christians his brothers. He didn't even hate the English. He just wanted them to free India.
>
> He loved the minorities. He wanted to eliminate castism. He has a hardcore liberal.
>
> Trump OTOH is intolerant of other cultures and religion. He hates Muslims and minorities. And is not a liberal by any means.

why on earth do you reckon Trump is intolerant of culturals and Muslims?? oh let me guess you're dumb enough to say "his travel ban", which excluded Indonesia, Pakistan, Saudi etc. the world's biggest Islamic populations, you'd be moronic to draw that conclusion.

> > wanting independent India,
> > so he was definitely a patriot,
>
> A patriot need not be a nationalist and vice versa.
>
> >it doesn't matter if he strived
> > for religiously unified greater Indian subcontinent
>
> No he did not. You doofus. He wanted Hindus and Muslims to live together. But the Muslims of the Northeast did not want to and formed their own country. In fact India has close to 200 million Muslims now.
>
> Not all Muslims are the same. Some are fanatics and some are extremely tolerant of other religions. The Muslims in India are more or less extremely liberal and consider India to be their home country. Most of the top actors of Bollywood and other India film industries are Muslim. We had a well respected Muslim President. Try that in America, it will never happen.

so why do most Indian Hindus hate them then? cos they definitely do.

> >pushing for
> > some kind of syncreticism or him becoming more pragmatic with
> > time realizing distinctively Hindu-majority country would be more
> > sustainable and have a greater social cohesion.
> >
> > In both cases it's nationalism. Of different kinds, but it was
> > India first always.
> >
> > So to say Gandhi was a globalist, or, not a nationalist, you have
> > to have raja-level IQ.
> >
> You are just not an fucking idiot, but also a dangerous asshole. You should be banned.

how on earth is he "dangerous"? you sound like some overly dramatic millennial who can't take that somebody disagrees with his idiotic views.

bob

unread,
May 5, 2018, 8:40:05 PM5/5/18
to
On Sun, 29 Apr 2018 22:45:50 -0700 (PDT), joh <josh...@gmail.com>
wrote:

>Op maandag 30 april 2018 03:23:25 UTC+2 schreef bob:
>> On Sun, 29 Apr 2018 16:34:07 -0700 (PDT), joh <josh...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> >Op zondag 29 april 2018 23:42:54 UTC+2 schreef bob:
>> >> On Sun, 29 Apr 2018 14:09:09 -0700 (PDT), soccerfan777
>> >> <zepf...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> >This is not the basic boxster, you dunkoff. The Porsche Pliskova drove off is probably 150k minimum
>> >>
>> >> VW = Porsche = Audi = emission frauding junksters.
>> >>
>> >> i owned 4 audis in my life, not 1 didn't leak oil < 1 yr. junks. never
>> >> again to german junk! and the boxster? you must know 0 about cars.
>> >>
>> >You don't seem too sharp yourself.
>>
>> nor you. at least if that's the best you can do.
>>
>Let's just say I'd have gotten the message after the 3rd Audi.

it was my ex wife's cars, she loved audis she and bought what she
wanted. she drives the 5th one oday as a matter of fact. :-)
i drive electric.

bob

bob

unread,
May 5, 2018, 8:40:49 PM5/5/18
to
On Mon, 30 Apr 2018 08:13:01 -0700 (PDT), soccerfan777
<zepf...@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Monday, April 30, 2018 at 12:45:52 AM UTC-5, joh wrote:
>> Op maandag 30 april 2018 03:23:25 UTC+2 schreef bob:
>> > On Sun, 29 Apr 2018 16:34:07 -0700 (PDT), joh <josh...@gmail.com>
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> > >Op zondag 29 april 2018 23:42:54 UTC+2 schreef bob:
>> > >> On Sun, 29 Apr 2018 14:09:09 -0700 (PDT), soccerfan777
>> > >> <zepf...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > >>
>> > >> >This is not the basic boxster, you dunkoff. The Porsche Pliskova drove off is probably 150k minimum
>> > >>
>> > >> VW = Porsche = Audi = emission frauding junksters.
>> > >>
>> > >> i owned 4 audis in my life, not 1 didn't leak oil < 1 yr. junks. never
>> > >> again to german junk! and the boxster? you must know 0 about cars.
>> > >>
>> > >You don't seem too sharp yourself.
>> >
>> > nor you. at least if that's the best you can do.
>> >
>> Let's just say I'd have gotten the message after the 3rd Audi.
>
>He probably bought 20 year old used Audis. Anyway I own a Merc and used to own a BMW. Both are fantastic. Boobs can go to hell.

they were all brand new.

mercedes and BMW are junk IMO. VWs/audis/porches too. not what they
used to be.

bob
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