Thiem

[Whisper]

After reading all the hype I decided to watch the 13 minute youtube
highlight clip v Djoker. I had an open mind & was optimistic about this
'future No.1', hoping to see something special.

I was pretty disappointed. At best he looks a bit like Andres Gomez &
definitely a claycourter. Some ok bh's, but nothing special. Very poor
at the net.

Kyrgios looks like a god next to this kid.

[me]

Kyrgios is not over-hyped. He's got the goods to win all the slams. Thiem may win 1 if he's lucky, by default......

[ahonkan]

What Whisper wants to say is: Kyrgios is 'Djokovic on steroids'

[John Liang]

Kyrgios has the game and physical ability to win the slams but what is missing with him is above his shoulder, until he can fix that attitude and getting a better head than Monfils he won't win anything big.

[Whisper]

Yes I think we all see by now Kyrgios has the physical game to win
slams, more so than any other young player. He just needs to mature a
bit more & get his priorities sorted. A guy like Thiem looks like an
amateur compared to Kyrgios.

[bob]

On Thu, 31 Mar 2016 19:23:41 +1100, Whisper <beav...@ozemail.com.au>
wrote:

don't know if i was 1st to tout kyrgios as i was out of RST about 6
months but IMO he's the only young kid with the
(a) size/body
(b) all around skills
(c) power
(d) but lacking the mental so far

to make it to the top 3 and maybe win some slams.

bob

[ahonkan]

On Thursday, 31 March 2016 18:27:04 UTC+5:30, bob wrote:

> don't know if i was 1st to tout kyrgios as i was out of RST about 6
> months but IMO he's the only young kid with the
> (a) size/body
> (b) all around skills
> (c) power
> (d) but lacking the mental so far
>
> to make it to the top 3 and maybe win some slams.
>
> bob

I think most of us got to know Kyrgios through his Wimby win over Rafa.
Rafa was playing quite well (unlike in his losses to Darcis & Brown)
& was on a high following his win over Djoker at FO. So everyone knew
he was a special talent (compared to compatriot Tomic who was touted as
a multi-Wimby champ by a certain self-appointed Tier 1 analyst on RST).

He has had some good wins since then. Thiem has been more consistent
than Kyrgios but I think Kyrgios has the raw talent to surpass Thiem.
It will be curious to see which of the two will have a better career.
I would throw in Zverev in the mix too as a likely contender with them.

[Pelle Svanslös]

On 31.3.2016 16:37, ahonkan wrote:
>
> He has had some good wins since then. Thiem has been more consistent
> than Kyrgios but I think Kyrgios has the raw talent to surpass Thiem.

Thiem's problem will always be his BH. He's the second coming of Rafa in
hitting FHs from his BH sideline. Not balanced. But he's very much
unfinished, can still improve on this.

OTOH, you can get far with a serve & a FH. Very few are better than him
in those. Besides the shots, Thiem also *plays* every point, up to the last.

> It will be curious to see which of the two will have a better career.
> I would throw in Zverev in the mix too as a likely contender with them.

Zverev is my #1 pet. Excellent ground game, defends well, takes it
early, ...

The Kyrgios "talent" is a complete mystery to me. "Talent" in tennis is
probably the equivalent of "substance" in Ebertese.

Neither is Kyrgios a physical specimen, nor a technical specimen as I
see it. He certainly isn't a point constructeur. He's a 1 wow shot + 5
UEs kinda guy.

A future Berdych.

--
“Hiss first. Listen later."

[Court_1]

On Thursday, March 31, 2016 at 8:57:04 AM UTC-4, bob wrote:

> don't know if i was 1st to tout kyrgios as i was out of RST about 6
> months

LOL! No you were NOT the first. Millions of people watched Kyrgios beat an in prime Nadal at Wimbledon TWO YEARS AGO and thought the same thing, i.e. that the kid had something special. SMH.

[Court_1]

On Thursday, March 31, 2016 at 9:37:44 AM UTC-4, ahonkan wrote:

> Thiem has been more consistent
> than Kyrgios but I think Kyrgios has the raw talent to surpass Thiem.
> It will be curious to see which of the two will have a better career.
> I would throw in Zverev in the mix too as a likely contender with them.

Yes, Kyrgios has the raw talent and Thiem has the good attitude and work ethic. For me Kyrgios is the more interesting player with more potential IF he has the will to win consistently and that'a a big IF at the moment.

Let's see if he can beat Raonic in Miami. It's hard to pick a winner of that match.

[MBDunc]

Funny, I also thought about Gomez when I saw first Thiem clips a couple of years ago.

But Whisper's Curse has been cast = Thief will rise to top10 (soon), to top3 (next year) wins a slam (2018). :).

Thiem has improved from 2014/2015 clearly. I won't be surprised if he actually enters to FO with "best of the rest" odds. Not sure if he will do any HC damage (yet) but on clay he is already marked man.

One note: Looks like one-h backhand is still not dead. its demise has been predicted for 25 years and while 2h backhand is dominating (or Djoker is) we still have Federer, Wawrinka, Gasquet in top10 and Thiem very close to top10.

.mikko

[*skriptis]

Pelle Svanslös <pe...@svans.com> Wrote in message:

lol

But yeah, I kinda agree. He might win everything, he has mighty
shots in his arsenal, it's just that I don't believe him. Both
his head, body and style.

If we're talking about revolution Kyrgios might do wonders, who
knows. If you think the game will only keep evolving then it's
probably more to Thiem's advantage. He's kinda Federer/Djokovic
combo.






--


----Android NewsGroup Reader----
http://usenet.sinaapp.com/

[grif]

I want to see Kyrgios against Djoker, so come on Nick! Smash Botnic!

[Court_1]

On Thursday, March 31, 2016 at 5:44:50 PM UTC-4, grif wrote:

> I want to see Kyrgios against Djoker, so come on Nick! Smash Botnic!

I agree with you. I also want to see where Kyrgios is relative to Djokovic.

He is without a doubt the most dynamic young gun to watch. The others (Coric, Thiem) put me to sleep.

[ahonkan]

On Friday, 1 April 2016 05:35:15 UTC+5:30, Court_1 wrote:

> He is without a doubt the most dynamic young gun to watch. The others (Coric, Thiem) put me to sleep.

Well, Kyrgios, Coric, Thiem, Zverev should wake you up now. Berdych,
Tsonga, Gasquet, Dimi, Nishi, Monfils, Goffin aka the missing generation
had put you to sleep. :-)

[The Iceberg]

Kyrgios seems to get injured an awful lot - is he really going to be fit enough to win a slam?
As well as his game holes, Thiem also seems to put so much effort into every point, makes me wonder if he'd last to make it to a slam final.

[Whisper]

Nick can obviously reach greater heights than Milos so if he's on he'll
win. Milos is playing very consistent atm & can win if Nick plays dumb,
which he does do quite a bit at this stage.

Just checked & Nick won 64 76. How was the quality? I imagine pretty
good as Milos is playing good stuff.

[Pelle Svanslös]

That's true. You do imagine a lot.

As for the quality, what can you say about a match with two 1-trick
ponies? A 1-trick pony must win.

Of the little I've seen of this affair, I'm not sure either managed a
return in play. Raonic seemed to play his worst of the season. 100 mph
UEs do seem to look more talented than 50mph UEs, I'll give you that.

[me]

Thiem's backhand is a bit of a weakness. He hits the occasional spectacular winner, but it is not a reliable shot under pressure. One handed backhand is clearly on it's last legs now, I doubt Thiem will be the one to keep it alive.

[Pelle Svanslös]

The number of FHs he hits v. the number of BHs he hits, kinda suggest he
agrees.

The 1-hander affects his whole game. What he would most like to do with
the BH, is to spin the bejesus out of the ball with it. Which he does
when he's first backed himself 3m from the baseline ...

... but then, there he is.

[MBDunc]

On Friday, April 1, 2016 at 3:34:10 PM UTC+3, Pelle Svanslös wrote:
> > Thiem's backhand is a bit of a weakness. He hits the occasional
> > spectacular winner, but it is not a reliable shot under pressure.
>
> The number of FHs he hits v. the number of BHs he hits, kinda suggest he
> agrees.
>
> The 1-hander affects his whole game. What he would most like to do with
> the BH, is to spin the bejesus out of the ball with it. Which he does
> when he's first backed himself 3m from the baseline ...
>
> ... but then, there he is.

Thiem's bh is tailored for clay (as also his FH) with his heavy topspin. But he has a great serve which is not granted for clay specialists. And his clay-oriented FH is great enough for hc too. The motion is an effortless whip - bit like Berasatequi/Robrero - which surely brings clay succee.

But yes; his bh is suspect currently as it is not a fast court tool.

.mikko

[Whisper]

Agreed. Problem is Nick is lapping it up & needs to get more serious -
he'd benefit from spending some time with Sampras, the way Pete
benefited from Lendl. You only have a limited time to play your peak
stuff & win slams, so be a shame to waste even 1 opportunity.

On pure talent he can beat Djoker & anybody (already beaten Federer & Rafa).

[bob]

On Sat, 2 Apr 2016 01:13:52 +1100, Whisper <beav...@ozemail.com.au>
wrote:

he's only 20 but if he's starting to mentally mature and develop the
work ethic, drop the temper a notch, i see him as the next slam
favorite after djok dips. i'm thinking age 22-26 he'll be the slam
favorite or co-favorite.

bob

[undecided]

Total crap from both sides. They both improved towards the end of the match but it was UE fest for a long while. Totally unimpressed with Kyrgios FH. Although it's big and it was giving Milos fits, it looks horrible. Really bad form in that stroke. Like I said in another post, the shot works because the Kid is big, strong and young. The mechanics look totally hacky.

[Shakes]

Sometimes form can look unimpressive, but the shot can be better than expected (Edberg, Kafelnikov etc.). How is Kyrgios' FH in terms of consistency and placement ?

[undecided]

I guess they were staying in and had a lot of spin but it's an ugly shot and if he was 6 feet tall they would have had no sting.

[Court_1]

On Friday, April 1, 2016 at 5:29:42 AM UTC-4, Whisper wrote:

> Just checked & Nick won 64 76. How was the quality?

I only saw bits & pieces but I would say Raonic wasn't at his best and Kyrgios served and returned better than Raonic and seemed more together at the big moments. The kid is a great closer for his age and seems to relish the pressure on the big stage.

Kei Nishikori will be a whole different challenge for Kyrgios with Kei's consistency and good ROS. I guess it will depend on what version of Kei shows up? Will it be the tired/injured one?

[bob]

On Fri, 1 Apr 2016 11:16:14 -0700 (PDT), undecided <cos...@gmail.com>
wrote:

i'm on record that kyrgios will win a slam before raonic does.

bob

[Court_1]

On Friday, April 1, 2016 at 2:16:15 PM UTC-4, undecided wrote:

> Totally unimpressed with Kyrgios FH. Although it's big and it was giving Milos fits, it looks horrible. Really bad form in that stroke. Like I said in another post, the shot works because the Kid is big, strong and young. The mechanics look totally hacky.

Who cares how the shot looks? It's a killer/powerful effective shot.

[bob]

i don't recall u ever having that philosophy towards nadal.

bob

[grif]

He's coming for Nole!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pr8fRmhUF5A

Only the Ninja stands in the way of a dream final.

[Court_1]

On Friday, April 1, 2016 at 3:45:40 PM UTC-4, bob wrote:
> On Fri, 1 Apr 2016 12:42:37 -0700 (PDT), Court_1

> < wrote:
>
> >On Friday, April 1, 2016 at 2:16:15 PM UTC-4, undecided wrote:
> >
> >> Totally unimpressed with Kyrgios FH. Although it's big and it was giving Milos fits, it looks horrible. Really bad form in that stroke. Like I said in another post, the shot works because the Kid is big, strong and young. The mechanics look totally hacky.
> >
> >Who cares how the shot looks? It's a killer/powerful effective shot.
>
> i don't recall u ever having that philosophy towards nadal.
>
> bob

???? Of course I do. I like Nadal. You must have me confused with somebody else? Nadal beat Federer in important matches with that forehand fair and square IMO. It may not have been a pretty looking shot but it was effective.

[Court_1]

Let's hope Kyrgios beats Kei. I think Novak will probably take care of Kyrgios, unfortunately. I'm not sure Kyrgios is ready to kill the vampire on the Miami slow hard courts.

[Gracchus]

Yes, I do hope they play and that Kyrgios at least makes a good match of it. If he won Miami by beating Djoke it would be huge in terms of sending notice to the old guard. But I agree with you that he's probably not quite ready to beat the Destroyer (aka the Slimy Serb) on one of his favorite surfaces.

[Whisper]

Exactly. Plenty of greats have had ugly looking form on certain shots,
but it's the result that counts.

[Whisper]

Not yet, though with his explosive game he's always a chance. Nick is
now top 4 fave for the slams this year with the bookies, & should be
able to crack the top 16 seedings.

[Whisper]

Gotta give Djoker credit. He's a real champ & gives very few cheap wins.

[Pelle Svanslös]

Indeed. And the countless 100mph UEs. 3-6, 5-7.

[bob]

On Sat, 2 Apr 2016 19:40:24 +1100, Whisper <beav...@ozemail.com.au>
wrote:

djoker has risen to a very good spot, and with fed's age, rafa's
level, murray's back, kyrgios' youth, he may win 4 more quickly.

bob

[MBDunc]

On Saturday, April 2, 2016 at 5:31:35 PM UTC+3, bob wrote:
> >Gotta give Djoker credit. He's a real champ & gives very few cheap wins.
>
> djoker has risen to a very good spot, and with fed's age, rafa's
> level, murray's back, kyrgios' youth, he may win 4 more quickly.
>
> bob

Thinking back 2011-12 ... Djoker won 4/5 from AO'11 - AO'12....and during that period we had Fed without four extra years and Rafa at his top form.

IMO Djoker is now better - so how to stop him? Well apparently not any lack of motivation but at some point his rubber joints/muscles have to start degrading into more normal.

.mikko

[Pelle Svanslös]

On 2.4.2016 17:51, MBDunc wrote:
> On Saturday, April 2, 2016 at 5:31:35 PM UTC+3, bob wrote:
>>> Gotta give Djoker credit. He's a real champ & gives very few cheap wins.
>>
>> djoker has risen to a very good spot, and with fed's age, rafa's
>> level, murray's back, kyrgios' youth, he may win 4 more quickly.
>>
>> bob
>
> Thinking back 2011-12 ... Djoker won 4/5 from AO'11 - AO'12....and during that period we had Fed without four extra years and Rafa at his top form.
>
> IMO Djoker is now better - so how to stop him?

Evil Djok.