How many men have won multiple FOs?
Raja, The Great
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_French_Open_Men's_Singles_champions#Multiple_champions
Only 7 of them won it 3 times
Bjorn Borg - 6 times
Rafael Nadal - 5 times
Henri Cochet - 4 times
Ivan Lendl - 3 times
Mats Wilander - 3 times
Rene Lacoste - 3 times
Gustavo Kuerten - 3 times
Only 12 more won it twice.
Sergi Bruguera - 2 times
Jim Courier - 2 times -------------- American(!!!)
Gottfried Von Cramm - 2 times
Jaroslav Drobny - 2 times
Roy Emerson - 2 times
Jan Kodes - 2 times
Rod Laver - 2 times
Ken Rosewall - 2 times
Frank Parker - 2 times -------------- American(!!!)
Tony Trabert - 2 times -------------- American(!!!)
Nicola Pietrangeli - 2 times
Manuel Santana - 2 times
Manco
considered. FO = hardest slam to win.
Raja, The Great
> Winning FO 4x is the ultimate mark of GOAT. Only Borg & Nadal can be
> considered.
>FO = hardest slam to win.
True dat
Superdave
>Winning FO 4x is the ultimate mark of GOAT. Only Borg & Nadal can be
>considered. FO = hardest slam to win.
This is why I have always supported Borg as the GOAT.
He won 6 FO and 5 W by age 24. Nobody else is even close.
Raja, The Great
> On Fri, 11 Feb 2011 17:12:18 -0800 (PST), Manco <musefan2...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >Winning FO 4x is the ultimate mark of GOAT. Only Borg & Nadal can be
> >considered. FO = hardest slam to win.
>
> This is why I have always supported Borg as the GOAT.
>
> He won 6 FO and 5 W by age 24. Nobody else is even close.
Borg is a strong candidate for GOAT. But I wouldn't call him
undisputed. After all he never won AO or USO. And also won YEC only
twice. No man is undisputed. Fed is a strong candidate too but he has
won FO only once.
uly...@mscomm.com
So what? Look at the rest of his resume for Gods sake.
I loved Borg and he was a great champion but his resume is an
absolute JOKE compared to Fed's. I won't bother to list Fed's slams,
his YEC's and everything else. Borg can never be considered GOAT when
he lost in the finals of the USO three times and lost a USO final on
CLAY to CONNORS. 'Nough said.
Soon Borg won't even be clay GOAT anymore, once Rafa wins 7 FO's,
which seems easily plausible.
Raja, The Great
> 'Fed is a strong candidate too but he has won FO only once.'
>
> So what? Look at the rest of his resume for Gods sake.
Thats why he is a strong candidate. But he has won FO only once. Thats
a hole. Don't you get the point. It is not flawless. Now look at
Steffi - every slam 4 times.
>
> I loved Borg and he was a great champion but his resume is an
> absolute JOKE compared to Fed's.
Bullshit.
> I won't bother to list Fed's slams,
> his YEC's and everything else. Borg can never be considered GOAT when
> he lost in the finals of the USO three times and lost a USO final on
> CLAY to CONNORS. 'Nough said.
He lost to Connors on green clay. Also you keep forgetting Borg
retired much younger. How many slams had Fed won by the age of 26?
>
> Soon Borg won't even be clay GOAT anymore, once Rafa wins 7 FO's,
> which seems easily plausible
A real GOAT performance EXCELLENT in all surface. Fed has always been
#2 on clay.
Vari L. Cinicke
Nadal will surpass Borg in total slams and RG titles.
Much as I like Borg, I will have to put Nadal ahead of him once that
happens.
There is no place for coulda-woulda in comparisons or analyses. Just
what players actually did on the tour.
--
Cheers,
vc
Superdave
Back then the AO didn't count really. Borg never played it. The USO is
another matter but it's no worse than Sampras not winning the FO or
Lendl not winning W. Plus he di make a few finals and had he played
another 7 or 8 years I am certain he would have won it more than once
even.
Don't believe that shit about mac driving Borg out of the game. He quit
because of major emotional problems with the woman he loved.
Raja, The Great
Borg was technically a dominant #1 more or less between 1978 and 1980.
Thats about 3 years. How long has been Rafa ruling the ATP tour?
> --
> Cheers,
>
> vc
Vari L. Cinicke
I know you have this dominance bee in your bonnet. It is a great thing
to have the great seasons of very few losses like McEnroe, Federer, Borg
and Lendl managed. But no one is going to take anything away from Nadal
because analysts look at the overall picture with slams getting a clear
edge. Nadal has a 3 slam year and a 2 slam year. If he can add to that
during his peak years ahead, he will definitely end up ahead of Borg in
judgments of careers as a whole. And if he reaches 14 slams, he ends up
ahead of Sampras on the back of his Career Slam.
Sure, there will still be a few partisans who have their special heroes
they will continue to tout no matter what. Changes nothing.
--
Cheers,
vc
Raja, The Great
So you also fell for this slam counting bullshit? How many slams did
Gonzales and Kramer win. Are you saying they are not great players?
Actually Nadal did co-dominate 2005, solely dominated 2008 and 2010.
So he is about equal to Borg in terms of domination. But Borg has this
aura which I don't think Nadal has approached yet. But Nadal has many
years to go and he might overtake Borg as a stronger contender for
GOAT
Quincy
> On Fri, 11 Feb 2011 17:12:18 -0800 (PST), Manco <musefan2...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >Winning FO 4x is the ultimate mark of GOAT. Only Borg & Nadal can be
> >considered. FO = hardest slam to win.
>
> This is why I have always supported Borg as the GOAT.
>
> He won 6 FO and 5 W by age 24. Nobody else is even close.
Becker won 3 W and 1 US by age 21. That is considerably good.
Vari L. Cinicke
Nothing to fall for. Players play for slams these days.
In Borg's time, it was a very different world. Also the case in earlier
times. I have no need for a overarching theory of lining up all ducks on
a line.
People who do have such a need run into problems and usually tie
themselves up in knots. So be it.
I have no problem admitting that the scales for judging greatness are
many and varied.
Will Nadal ever have the aura that Borg did? Doubt it, especially if his
hair keeps heading Agassi direction. But he does have Borg's aura of
being nearly impossible to hit past on a clay court. Borg's 5 Wimbledons
in a row will set him apart from Nadal. So will Nadal's career slam set
him apart from Borg.
I understand that it is a personal judgment I am making if I choose to
think of Nadal's future career as better than Borg's career. I am not
going to get bent out of shape if the universe does not follow me.
--
Cheers,
vc
Raja, The Great
ocean
> On Fri, 11 Feb 2011 17:12:18 -0800 (PST), Manco <musefan2...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >Winning FO 4x is the ultimate mark of GOAT. Only Borg & Nadal can be
> >considered. FO = hardest slam to win.
>
> This is why I have always supported Borg as the GOAT.
>
> He won 6 FO and 5 W by age 24. Nobody else is even close.
Borg NEVER won the USO. Not when it was played on grass, or on har-tru
clay or on HC. Next.
ocean
>Borg lost a USO final on CLAY to CONNORS. 'Nough said.
Ouch.... Imagine if Connors had played the FO from 1974-1981? How many
RG would Borg have won? Rafa had to beat the GOAT to win 4 of his 5
FO. 'Nough said.
ocean
Borg didn't have to compete with the "Fedbot"! Advantage Rafa. He beat
the GOAT at slams played on all surfaces!
MBDunc
Connors started playing FO 1979 (lost to Pecci). Was banned 74 and
skipped it 75-78 (remember also Borg skipped FO77 due to WTT
activities).
Connors would probably won max. 1 FO. After all he never reached FO
final when he played it 79->, also has only one title from red clay
(and that's is co-title as final of Rome 81 was never played due to
weather) and Connors had a couple of strange losses to boot. (1979,
1983). Far from stellarity of Borg.
.mikko
Raja, The Great
> On 12 helmi, 19:11, ocean <oceanau...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > On 12 feb, 13:15, "ulys...@msomm.com" <ulys...@mscomm.com> wrote:
>
> > >Borg lost a USO final on CLAY to CONNORS. 'Nough said.
>
> > Ouch.... Imagine if Connors had played the FO from 1974-1981? How many
> > RG would Borg have won? Rafa had to beat the GOAT to win 4 of his 5
> > FO. 'Nough said.
>
> Connors started playing FO 1979 (lost to Pecci). Was banned 74 and
> skipped it 75-78 (remember also Borg skipped FO77 due to WTT
> activities).
>
> Connors would probably won max. 1 FO. After all he never reached FO
He could have easily won 82-84 when there was no Borg and he was still
good.
> final when he played it 79->, also has only one title from red clay
> (and that's is co-title as final of Rome 81 was never played due to
> weather) and Connors had a couple of strange losses to boot. (1979,
> 1983). Far from stellarity of Borg.
Good point.
>
> .mikko
Raja, The Great
Connors was no threat to Borg on clay. He got his ass handed to 5
straight years at Wimbledon by Borg. You think he stood on chance on
Borg's favorite surface? Borg was humiliating Vilas on clay and he was
the second best clay player in the 70s.
ocean
The point is Borg had no Federer to compete with while Nadal had to
beat the best player of all time to win most of his slams. Nadal had
it tougher. The likes of Mcenroe and Connors are not Federer.
Raja, The Great
Fed is second best, but not a natural clay courter. Nadal has no
problems against Federer on clay really if he is playing his best.
Borg ass-raped natural clay courters from Spain, Argentina, Brazil etc
and he is not even Latin. He is a Western European mauling Easter
Europeans and S. Americans on red clay. I think that is more
admirable. Rafa dominating clay is no shock. He is a Spaniard after
all. Its in their blood.
ocean
Nobody in the days of Borg reached 23 consecutive SF at the slams...
Rafa had to compete with the GOAT. Nothing tougher than that...
ocean
The reason he was so good on both surfaces was because Sweden had
mostly grass court and clay court and he grew up on them. The hard
courts were alien to him.
http://rajarocker.com/tennisgreatest.html
Manco
a 40+ week stretch at #1 is irrelevant. Rafa has the most slams,
MS-1000, total titles, YE #1 finishes, and total weeks at #1 since
2008.
Manco
don't become a retroactive GOAT....
Manco
as soon as he became a pro he was Sampras-couldn't-arsed-on-the-red-
stuff....
Raja, The Great
Thats true. He could adjust to carpet (which is probably closer to
grass than hard courts) but not much on hard courts. He won only 6
hard court tournaments.
Superdave
never know. this could also be rafas last FO and year on tour.
the knees you lnow.