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Nadal: Has he ever been injured when he was decisivley winning a match ?

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Fednatic

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Jan 28, 2014, 1:57:54 AM1/28/14
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statistically 50% of his injuries should come when he is winning and
50% when he is losing.

but since 100% of nadals injuries come when he is losing and losing
badly it follows that he is a faker and a CHEAT !

TT

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Jan 28, 2014, 2:36:47 AM1/28/14
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28.1.2014 8:57, Fednatic kirjoitti:
> statistically 50% of his injuries should come when he is winning and
> 50% when he is losing.

Incorrect. Most of his injuries come pre-match.

For example at USO when he lost to Delpo at semis he had had the
abdominal tear throughout the whole tournament... won 5 matches with it,
lost one. But you just remember the one he lost.

--
"This is not about Federer, this is about how good Nadal is."
- Darren Cahill

Fednatic

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Jan 28, 2014, 2:46:14 AM1/28/14
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On Tue, 28 Jan 2014 09:36:47 +0200, TT <as...@dprk.kp> wrote:

>28.1.2014 8:57, Fednatic kirjoitti:
>> statistically 50% of his injuries should come when he is winning and
>> 50% when he is losing.
>
>Incorrect. Most of his injuries come pre-match.
>
>For example at USO when he lost to Delpo at semis he had had the
>abdominal tear throughout the whole tournament... won 5 matches with it,
>lost one. But you just remember the one he lost.

No I mean when he starts acting up and throwing wobblers DURING a
match because of an injury he got DURING the match.

bob

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Jan 28, 2014, 8:46:25 PM1/28/14
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On Tue, 28 Jan 2014 14:57:54 +0800, Fednatic <fedn...@gmail.com>
wrote:

>
>
>statistically 50% of his injuries should come when he is winning and
>50% when he is losing.

statistically most should come when he's winning since he's winning
far more often than losing. but that makes no difference, like TT
said, most of these are practice and overuse injuries.

>but since 100% of nadals injuries come when he is losing and losing
>badly it follows that he is a faker and a CHEAT !

bob

Patrick Kehoe

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Jan 29, 2014, 12:14:25 AM1/29/14
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Which is precisely the worry Team Nadal now navigate through... Rafa doesn't practice anywhere near as long (in blocks) as he used to nor at the absolute rate (per training session) as he did before 2011... Toni Nadal has spoken about this at considerable length in various interviews... Even Brad Gilbert and Darren Cahill have noted Rafa trying to balance out his workouts to get effective work in and not expose his body to hyper exertions on the practice court

Plus

Rafa's taken a NUMBER of very long breaks, mostly injury related but even those have - at times - been extended for preventative measures... understanding both of these realities for Rafa shows us that even though he's introduced solid training management periodizations and preventative safeguards to his over all preparations he's STILL getting injured at regular intervals, requiring protracted periods away from competition...

So, there's a real issue there in terms of Rafa's long term career viability, IF this cycle either continues (because - let's face it - it's emotionally and psychologically exhausting/taxing and Rafa's very reliant on his mental resolve as a competitor and champion, being his badge of greatness in many way... ala Borg) or gets worse/more acute...

P

bob

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Jan 29, 2014, 11:28:19 AM1/29/14
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isn't it funny that rafa is ranked #1 and had some excellent results
since that knee problem, and has fixed it by, what else, less
practice? i called this out before then and predicted his results to
get better with more rest, less intensity. that said, some people are
a more injury prone by nature and nadal early efforts probably lead to
this.

bob

Court_1

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Jan 29, 2014, 3:34:54 PM1/29/14
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> isn't it funny that rafa is ranked #1 and had some excellent results
>
> since that knee problem, and has fixed it by, what else, less
>
> practice?

So that is how he "fixed" it huh? ;) LOL, what Lala land do you live in?



ca1houn

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Jan 29, 2014, 4:28:00 PM1/29/14
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Well we know that. Plus he's fans like to create bullshit injuries because it a win win. If Nadal win then he overcame injury, are he play through pain. Then they can add more to his accomplishments.

Patrick Kehoe

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Jan 29, 2014, 5:35:50 PM1/29/14
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Well, you did bob and to be fair even Fed-addicts, Nole-ites and sundry others spoke about that very issue... what hasn't happened however for Rafa is injury prevention... his competitive game still taxes his body, beyond it's limits and it shows up in threatening injury or temporary incapacity, which has become a cycle over the last say 6 years... as he gets older the threat of critical injury looms and Rafa AND Toni have talked about their apprehension regarding this... he's 28 in the early spring... so, after a decade of hyper exertions and having attained astounding competitive/performance thresholds, what will the cost be, short term and medium term?

P

drew

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Jan 30, 2014, 1:23:09 AM1/30/14
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On Wednesday, January 29, 2014 12:14:25 AM UTC-5, Patrick Kehoe wrote:

>
>
>
> Which is precisely the worry Team Nadal now navigate through... Rafa doesn't practice anywhere near as long (in blocks) as he used to nor at the absolute rate (per training session) as he did before 2011... Toni Nadal has spoken about this at considerable length in various interviews... Even Brad Gilbert and Darren Cahill have noted Rafa trying to balance out his workouts to get effective work in and not expose his body to hyper exertions on the practice court

That's prudent.
>
>
>
> Plus
>
>
>
> Rafa's taken a NUMBER of very long breaks, mostly injury related but even those have - at times - been extended for preventative measures... understanding both of these realities for Rafa shows us that even though he's introduced solid training management periodizations and preventative safeguards to his over all preparations he's STILL getting injured at regular intervals, requiring protracted periods away from competition...

Yeah, he's gotta keep himself match tough if he's not going to train as hard. It's got to be more strategic and less bullwork.
>
>
>
> So, there's a real issue there in terms of Rafa's long term career viability, IF this cycle either continues (because - let's face it - it's emotionally and psychologically exhausting/taxing and Rafa's very reliant on his mental resolve as a competitor and champion, being his badge of greatness in many way... ala Borg) or gets worse/more acute...

I don't think too many sensible people expected him to make it to 28. It's more mental than physical now IMO. Getting to 17 majors must look pretty formidable now if they are in fact aiming beyond this year. He's gonna need a rebuild this year at some point. Doesn't leave much room to shoot for 17. I can't see it at all.

bob

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Jan 30, 2014, 7:25:31 PM1/30/14
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On Wed, 29 Jan 2014 14:35:50 -0800 (PST), Patrick Kehoe
but rafa has claimed that the knees (the chronic condition) feel much
better since the change in playing time and the back issue isn't the
same, it's a 1 off injury IMO.

short term i expect rafa to have an excellent 2014, but not much after
age 30 if anything. IMO as hard as he's trained and played over the
yrs, he's on borrowed time but he may have gotten the hint in time.

bob

Whisper

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Jan 31, 2014, 8:23:59 AM1/31/14
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>
> short term i expect rafa to have an excellent 2014, but not much after
> age 30 if anything. IMO as hard as he's trained and played over the
> yrs, he's on borrowed time but he may have gotten the hint in time.
>
> bob
>


I think what this AO has reaffirmed for us is to never take any slam for
granted, & take it 1 match at a time. Li almost lost 61 63 in 3rd rd (2
inches from losing, mp just sailed long), all the top women lost, Rafa
looked unbackable odds after crushing an in-form Fed & playing his lap
dog in the final etc.

It's never over til the last point, so my advice to Rafa & all players
is 1 match at a time.


Scott

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Jan 31, 2014, 6:30:25 PM1/31/14
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Good post.

RaspingDrive

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Feb 1, 2014, 8:03:43 AM2/1/14
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He he he. Knew you would respond to that :)

undecided

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Feb 1, 2014, 9:09:09 AM2/1/14
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I am not so sure. Barring any traumatic injury, he should be able to sustain this level until 30. The reason a lot of player's performance drops with age is not just aging. It's also burnout, less commitment to training. We now know that training can mask and delay the apparent deterioration of aging. Sure, he may not be able to stay in the top-3 after 30 but he should remain a slam contender. I am waiting to see who will be the one to beat him. Wawrinka is also 28. Fed is basically done. Djokovic is about the same age. From the youngins I don't see a problem except Dimitrov if he gets a bit better.

bob

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Feb 3, 2014, 5:46:53 PM2/3/14
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On Sat, 01 Feb 2014 00:23:59 +1100, Whisper <beav...@ozemail.net.au>
wrote:
i think rafa is in that mode for the past 2 yrs, and has had some
excellent results. i think rafa will win 1-2 more slams this yr and
how he plays the off season this yr will determine if he ever catches
fed. what i'm debating since last USO is if he needs 17 slams for me
to consider his accomplishments > fed's. this AO really hurt, it
would've given him momentum, 2 of every slam + Oly gold. i'm anxiously
awaiting may thru sep this yr.

bob

Fednatic

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Feb 3, 2014, 9:33:16 PM2/3/14
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His 7543 score will NEVER pass Fed. Remember Bob, that is the
benchmark or do we have to dig out the literal thousands of post by
you and whisper saying so ?

So, your not going back on your word now bob are you ?

Tsk tsk.

drew

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Feb 4, 2014, 11:15:32 AM2/4/14
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On Saturday, February 1, 2014 9:09:09 AM UTC-5, undecided wrote:
> I am not so sure. Barring any traumatic injury, he should be able to sustain this level until 30.

Should? He'd be the first to maintain all-time great level at age 30. Winning a major at 30 and getting back to #1 is not even likely IMO. That's something you can do at great cost as Federer showed. You can push the limits of your mental and physical strength and go for it one more time or you can cruise down to retirement.

The reason a lot of player's performance drops with age is not just aging. It's also burnout, less commitment to training. We now know that training can mask and delay the apparent deterioration of aging.

Or it can bring it on even faster. The problem becomes the inability to train hard enough to keep really sharp without overtraining an older body to the breaking point. Drugs help to allow for a few more years but they can't give you the kind of platinum wiring that you need to have the perfect timing of your prime. Building muscle, rebuilding damaged tissue, pumping up is one thing...regaining that razor sharp edge of the very best at age 30 is improbable.

We'll see what Nadal can do. I'd be amazed as never before if he can show last year's form, even after another extended break. My guess is he'll retire this year when he pushes down on the gas and nothing happens and that'll be somewhere between May and September. And he'd be wise to do this. There's nothing to be proven by damaging the body further. He can't compete at 75%...he's shown that again and again. These guys who get recurring injuries, rebuild and come back generally don't come back for very long before the pattern re-occurs.

If he does the ill-advised and attempts another comeback after an extended leave to rebuild....he's gonna stall when he hits his first big challenge. And that's going to be tears all around for the Nadal worshippers.

Patrick Kehoe

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Feb 4, 2014, 2:38:22 PM2/4/14
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On Tuesday, February 4, 2014 8:15:32 AM UTC-8, drew wrote:
> On Saturday, February 1, 2014 9:09:09 AM UTC-5, undecided wrote:
>
> > I am not so sure. Barring any traumatic injury, he should be able to sustain this level until 30.
>
>
>
> Should? He'd be the first to maintain all-time great level at age 30. Winning a major at 30 and getting back to #1 is not even likely IMO. That's something you can do at great cost as Federer showed. You can push the limits of your mental and physical strength and go for it one more time or you can cruise down to retirement.

The final reserves of focused intention and driving inspiration have to be balanced against calmed performance application and steadiness against the moment to moment irrationality of fear and desperation, which more youthful keenness simply pushes past with abiding singularities of need and hopefulness age tends to lack...

Nole too, seems to be finding it more and more difficult to call upon all the needed ingredients for success at critical times at the majors and he's a year younger than Rafa... He's had a LOT of years of delivering MEGA results when called upon to dig DEEP into that well of inner reserves... A large part of Nole's tennis reputation has been founded on his digging deep to turn close encounters into major wins... We all appreciate that Nole was a high achiever at the professional level VERY EARLY in his career... We should all remember Nole was in the USO final at 20, in 2007! Quite a while ago now...

So, for the big three - the guys who have won the most majors over the last decade, namely: Fed, Rafa, Nole - the tires are wearing fast, despite their respect birth dates... they have all debited a kings ransom worth of mental and physical resources... How each marshals what's left of their respective resources, well, that's going to be a big story of what happens at the majors for the next, say 6 or 7 majors... With the trending pack desperate to rip open the doors to the kingdom...

P

Patrick Kehoe

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Feb 4, 2014, 2:45:48 PM2/4/14
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On Tuesday, February 4, 2014 8:15:32 AM UTC-8, drew wrote:
Put the question of Nadal this way: When will he hit the wall? He's so like a great marathoner... He's been so great for so long, playing that all out power-counter-hitting defensive tennis of his, covering everything imaginable, when will he just hit the WALL out there...

Nole's going to be more of a long fizzle, with brilliant return of form producing some big results and then some cliff dive periods... But Rafa seems more destined to empty the tank competely... for as long as his body can withstand the 'reboot' he accomplished in between those monster defeats he suffers, he's going to put that physiology of his through the wringer!

P

bob

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Feb 5, 2014, 6:36:09 PM2/5/14
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On Tue, 04 Feb 2014 10:33:16 +0800, Fednatic <fedn...@gmail.com>
wrote:
i agree 7543 has been a great achievement benchmark. we now have
olympics that the top guys seem to love, and a dramatic H2H deficit by
our 7543 champ so we've all been thinking a little outside the box the
past 3 yrs.

bob

Fednatic

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Feb 5, 2014, 10:58:57 PM2/5/14
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ah ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha

so fuck the mix

forget 7543

go with the bumrooters ?

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