Another useless, gutless modern day 'professional' quits after losing 1st 2 sets 1-6 1-6

[Whisper]

Something that goes by the name of 'Dudi Sela' defrauds tennis fans yet
again.

The modern game is boring enough to watch without all these spineless
wankers withdrawing at the slightest sign of discomfort. The time has
come to change the way prize money is allocated, & needs to move away
from simply winning a match & reaching a certain round model. Obviously
there is little incentive for a guy who thinks he won't or can't win a
match to put in much effort at all if the prize money is exactly the
same for 0-6 0-6 0-6 or a withdrawal, as it is for 67 76 76 67 75.

It's clear most modern day pros treat tennis as a business & not sport.
This is a very bad outcome for tennis fans & needs to be addressed.

The 3rd rd prize money is about 120k, so rather than simply giving the
whole amount to the loser it would be better to incentivize effort.
Let's say you get the full 120k if you lose in 5 sets, 105k if you lose
in 4 & 90k if you win 0 sets. That way you have the carrot of 15k for
simply winning a set, 30k if you win 2. Obviously if you win 2 then you
have a massive carrot to chase into the next rd for even more money.

The money is trivial for the top guys, but these guys put in a good
effort so it's not aimed at them.

Tomic should have got about 25k for losing in straight sets 1st rd
rather than 40k. That should be the prize for a 5 set loss.

Sure there will be genuine 'casualties' with genuine injuries/fatigue
from marathon earlier matches etc, but I'm willing to accept these as
collateral damage. These 'genuine' situations are few & far between imo.
Probably only 1 in 20 are genuine, if that. The rest are just general
fatigue, playing hot opponent etc, so why bust a gut when there is zero
monetary incentive?

This way when we see a guy tanking, withdrawing etc we know it's costing
them money.

The downside is minimal compared to the positives.

---
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[Gracchus]

On Saturday, July 8, 2017 at 6:08:06 AM UTC-7, Whisper wrote:

> Something that goes by the name of 'Dudi Sela' defrauds tennis fans yet
> again.

Dudi doesn't sound like Mossad material.

[calim...@gmx.de]

And you don't sound like Delta Force material, kid.


Max

[Gracchus]

How could I be? I'm probably older than you are.

[Tim]

I don't think you can simplistically use sets won as a measure of
effort. A player ranked 150 can easily lose in 3 sets against a player
ranked 3rd even if having put in plenty of effort.

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[jdeluise]

On Sat, 08 Jul 2017 07:42:10 -0700, Gracchus wrote:

> Dudi doesn't sound like Mossad material.

But definitely toilet material

[TT]

I thought the same about Khachanov.

[RaspingDrive]

You probably are. Max is Sept 21 1973, according to him in a post a while back.

[Manuel aka Xax]

Not that I want to excuse Sela, he was maybe simply tired from his won over Isner.
What I quite don't get, is that he didn't seemed injured, given how fast Dimitrov had dispatched him during set 1 & 2, I don't think he have to suffer long before eating (at best) another breadstick.

This reminded me a bit of Henin vs Mauresmo at AO.
Not the kind of taste the winner should be feeling, had he (she) won the match "unspoiled".

[Whisper]

They still get the base level money for reaching the rd. This way if
they can win a set they get more cash, so at least an incentive to hang
in til the end.

Sure you'll get guys who give 100% & still lose, but that's the way the
cookie crumbles. Overall you'll see less withdrawals & more guys at
least scheming a way to win a set or 2. Remember most of these guys
treat tennis strictly as a business - they don't care much for the fans
who've come out at expense to watch competitive tennis.

[Whisper]

Yes, this is my point. At least this way if they pull out you know it's
costing them, & they know too. These guys are businessmen/tradesmen -
very few will put in extra work for no extra reward. They need to be
incentivized to perform.

[jdeluise]

On Sat, 08 Jul 2017 16:32:53 -0700, Manuel aka Xax wrote:

> Not that I want to excuse Sela, he was maybe simply tired from his won
> over Isner.
> What I quite don't get, is that he didn't seemed injured, given how fast
> Dimitrov had dispatched him during set 1 & 2, I don't think he have to
> suffer long before eating (at best) another breadstick.

More and more pros seem to be treating tennis matches as if they are
playing chess, where "resigning" in an unwinnable position is the norm.

[soccerfan777]

If they are doing this quite often ATP/WTA/ITF should fine them. May be dock their prize money by 50% if you retire mid-match and 25% if you retire pre-match. It should be reasonable considering the money the sponsors and organizers lose when this happens.

[Javier González]

http://www.jpost.com/Breaking-News/Israels-Dudi-Sela-out-of-Wimbledon-after-retiring-injured-499112

Shoulda played through the injury so that Whisper wasn't offended ;)

[The Iceberg]

they can't fine them cos they haven't broken any rules. Whisper's idea is the best heard so far cos it forces to work for a bonus, which most of them clearly need, as they don't bother. Dudi Sela could've spent the last set walking from side to side at least, but he didn't even bother doing that, pretty rubbish considering he was on a main court at Wimbledon!

[The Iceberg]

he'd lost the first 2 sets 61 61, would it really have been sooo difficult to finish the match? it was really unfair for the fans, they would've seen a few more minutes of Dimitrov hitting balls at least.

[The Iceberg]

it all down to Fed upping their prize money.

[Whisper]

Tough to do as you can't prove they aren't genuine. Best to just offer
more $$ for every set they win in a losing match.

[Whisper]

On 10/07/2017 10:24 AM, Javier González wrote:
> On Saturday, July 8, 2017 at 9:08:06 AM UTC-4, Whisper wrote:
>> Something that goes by the name of 'Dudi Sela' defrauds tennis fans yet
>> again.
>>

>> Sure there will be genuine 'casualties' with genuine injuries/fatigue
>> from marathon earlier matches etc, but I'm willing to accept these as
>> collateral damage. These 'genuine' situations are few & far between imo.
>> Probably only 1 in 20 are genuine, if that. The rest are just general
>> fatigue, playing hot opponent etc, so why bust a gut when there is zero
>> monetary incentive?
>>
>> This way when we see a guy tanking, withdrawing etc we know it's costing
>> them money.
>>
>> The downside is minimal compared to the positives.
>>
>> ---
>> This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
>> http://www.avg.com
>
> http://www.jpost.com/Breaking-News/Israels-Dudi-Sela-out-of-Wimbledon-after-retiring-injured-499112
>
> Shoulda played through the injury so that Whisper wasn't offended ;)
>

Anyone with a genuine serious injury should definitely not play on.
Nobody wants to see a player hobbling around grimacing in pain. My
position is these situations are exceedingly rare - probably 95% are
faked/exaggerated. They still get prizemoney even if they withdraw,
just not as much as they would if they won a set or 2. That's fair imo.

[Whisper]

I'm ok with Duda defaulting if he really couldn't play without great
pain, but he gets the base money only, not the extra bonus for winning a
set or 2. That's just the way the cookie crumbles when you get injured.

[arahim]

They do offer them more money to win three sets and move to the next round. If you are going to incentivize sets why not incentivize games and then points.

You can't prove they are genuine yet somehow you have come up with that only 1 in 20 is genuine?

[arahim]

On the other hand do you really want to see another 61 set between Dimitrov and Sela.

[Whisper]

On 10/07/2017 8:10 PM, arahim wrote:
> On Monday, July 10, 2017 at 2:33:30 AM UTC-7, Whisper wrote:
>> On 9/07/2017 11:24 PM, soccerfan777 wrote:
>>> On Sunday, July 9, 2017 at 7:44:27 AM UTC-5, jdeluise wrote:
>>>> On Sat, 08 Jul 2017 16:32:53 -0700, Manuel aka Xax wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Not that I want to excuse Sela, he was maybe simply tired from his won
>>>>> over Isner.
>>>>> What I quite don't get, is that he didn't seemed injured, given how fast
>>>>> Dimitrov had dispatched him during set 1 & 2, I don't think he have to
>>>>> suffer long before eating (at best) another breadstick.
>>>>
>>>> More and more pros seem to be treating tennis matches as if they are
>>>> playing chess, where "resigning" in an unwinnable position is the norm.
>>>
>>> If they are doing this quite often ATP/WTA/ITF should fine them. May be dock their prize money by 50% if you retire mid-match and 25% if you retire pre-match. It should be reasonable considering the money the sponsors and organizers lose when this happens.
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> Tough to do as you can't prove they aren't genuine. Best to just offer
>> more $$ for every set they win in a losing match.
>>
>
> They do offer them more money to win three sets and move to the next round.

Yes, but most of these guys have minimal chances of winning 3 sets so
don't even try. They figure money is the same whether you withdraw or
lose 10-8 in 5th.

If you went to work & got the same pay for working 1 hour & going home
'sick' as you do for 10 hrs, where's the incentive to slog it out all
day? In fact you're pretty stupid if you stay.

> If you are going to incentivize sets why not incentivize games and then points.

I'd be all for games, but too cumbersome to implement. Incentivizing
sets would reduce the default rate by at least 80% imo.

>
> You can't prove they are genuine yet somehow you have come up with that only 1 in 20 is genuine?

Players have admitted it many times, gone out & played exo next day,
Kyrgios went out dancing the same night after withdrawing in 1st rd etc.

I don't blame these guys for doing it as they are businessmen & don't
care at all about the game & fans. All they care about is maximizing $$
for minimum effort. Tomic is honest & basically reflecting how most pros
treat the game. The administrators have to get smarter & offer reward
for effort. They owe it to us tennis fans.

[Whisper]

If both guys can play on, then obviously yes. You think the fans are
happy seeing all these defaults? They want to see tennis, even if it's
60 60 60.



--
"A GOAT who isn't BOAT can never become GOAT if he plays alongside BOAT"

[arahim]

If you really believe so many of the top players are doing this then may be better option is to reduce the field size from 128.

[arahim]

May be in cases of retirement they should ask someone to come down from the spectators and complete the match and get a lesson. They can achieve a 60 60 60 result as well...and would be more memorable than a Sela-Dimitrov set.

[PeteWasLucky]

> they can't fine them cos they haven't broken any rules. Whisper's idea is the best heard so far cos it forces to work for a bonus, which most of them clearly need, as they don't bother. Dudi Sela could've spent the last set walking from side to side at least, but he didn't even bother doing that, pretty rubbish considering he was on a main court at Wimbledon!

And you and whisper will be the only ones watching him playing the match walking side to side.