OT: 9/11 TRUTH
Paul
Joe Ramirez
"The intense and controversial debate is set between the proponents of
the 'natural collapse' theory and the 'controlled demolition' theory."
Exact same BS that is employed to promote a phony "debate" between
"evolution theory" and "intelligent design theory." To be followed at
10 p.m. by the intense and controversial debate between the proponents
of the "Earth's rotation" theory and the "Apollo's chariot" theory.
TT
Good post.
drew
I'd just like somebody to take another jet and test whack it into a
similarly designed building (empty of people this time) to prove to me
that these buildings collapsed. Before there was any talk of how
these building managed to drop into their own footprint, the
likelihood
of a steel structure collapsing in this manner and so on....I thought
it looked pretty strange when these buildings dropped into a heap of
rubble without bending and twisting for hours and hours like you might
expect.
I'm no engineer and no conspiracy theorist but there's something fishy
about the way those buildings dropped....especially the one that
wasn't on
fire. ;-)
TennisGuy
> I'm no engineer and no conspiracy theorist but there's something fishy
> about the way those buildings dropped....especially the one that
> wasn't on
> fire. ;-)
Which deathbed confession do you think will we hear first?
1. A JFK assassin conspirator's
2. OJ's
3. A 911 conspirator's
felangey
about the way those buildings dropped....especially the one that
wasn't on
fire. ;-)<
1500 architectural and engineering professionals agree with you. And me! :)
Iceberg
I suppose the planes crashing into the twin towers were all just some
illusion by David Copperfield paid for by Dubya.
Whisper
I'm 100% certain it's all legit & there is no conspiracy.
It would actually be logistically impossible to pull something like this
off, & I really would bet anything that it's all true. If it were fake
it would have been obvious within hours of the event.
While I don't necessarily consider conspiracy theorists of low
intelligence (they have ve$ted interests pushing this to gullible folk),
I do consider all believers quite dumb. This isn't meant to insult
anyone as there are more than 3 billion people in the bottom 50%
intelligence quantile, so it's quite common.
felangey
>in the bottom 50% intelligence quantile, so it's quite common<
I would say you were at least in the top 80 percentile of that 3bill. :)
drew
>
> It would actually be logistically impossible to pull something like this
> off, & I really would bet anything that it's all true. If it were fake
> it would have been obvious within hours of the event.
Not sure what you mean by 'fake'. Clearly the buildings dropped and
the people died.
The devil is in the detail.
>
> While I don't necessarily consider conspiracy theorists of low
> intelligence (they have ve$ted interests pushing this to gullible folk),
> I do consider all believers quite dumb.
Now you are confusing conspiracy theorists with those who just observe
and see inconsistencies
in the official explanations.
I have lived too long to believe everything that I read so I attempt
to analyze events from
as many angles as I can. It is difficult to remain impartial but it
is important to identify lies
and half-truths when you read them.....regardless of whether your gut
instinct tells you to
believe this source and NOT the other.
This isn't meant to insult
> anyone as there are more than 3 billion people in the bottom 50%
> intelligence quantile, so it's quite common
Of course it is meant to insult dumb people. You consider yourself
superior in intelligence to
most others. You also like to invoke the power of the majority.
Calling others fuckwits is typical.
Citing without evidence that 99.9% of the people believe so and so is
also typical of a Whisper
argument.
The Whispers of the world are easily led. If somebody in a position
of authority feeds you a load
of bullshit wrapped in sweet sounding prose, you'll look right and
left. If the people wearing the jewellery
and the good suits are smiling and nodding their heads, that's good
enough for you.
Joe Ramirez
> On Mar 9, 5:17 am, Whisper <beaver...@ozemail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > It would actually be logistically impossible to pull something like this
> > off, & I really would bet anything that it's all true. If it were fake
> > it would have been obvious within hours of the event.
>
> Not sure what you mean by 'fake'. Clearly the buildings dropped and
> the people died.
>
> The devil is in the detail.
>
>
>
> > While I don't necessarily consider conspiracy theorists of low
> > intelligence (they have ve$ted interests pushing this to gullible folk),
> > I do consider all believers quite dumb.
>
> Now you are confusing conspiracy theorists with those who just observe
> and see inconsistencies
> in the official explanations.
>
> I have lived too long to believe everything that I read so I attempt
> to analyze events from
> as many angles as I can. It is difficult to remain impartial but it
> is important to identify lies
> and half-truths when you read them.....regardless of whether your gut
> instinct tells you to
> believe this source and NOT the other.
The problem is that merely attempting to poke holes in "official"
accounts is nowhere near enough to establish the truth, or even the
plausibility, of any alternative account. Few complex events, or even
simple ones, can be reconstructed and explained with perfect
completeness and clarity. Actual *affirmative evidence* is always
sadly lacking for whatever "unofficial" theory is being pushed. If
you asked your kid what he did at the party last night, you might get
a mumbled response that didn't quite seem to cover all the bases. But
you could analyze his answer until the cows came home, and it still
wouldn't prove that he had actually been abducted by aliens rather
than attending the party.
Iceberg
The 911 conspiracies are also flimsy alien conspiracies as there's
credible/film evidence of what happened, experts agree the steel
girders melted causing the collapse etc. plus the terrorists had tried
blowing up the towers back in 1992. was Bush's look really fake when
he was told about it? The Princess Diana killing and JFK are different
as there are clear holes and missing evidence in the investigations,
likewise the Dr.Kelly murder here in the UK, he was the guy who
exposed that the Iraq invasion was based on 'sexed-up' lies. I'd say
they are worthy of conspiracy theories as they're likely state
sponsored assassinations.
drew
> On Mar 9, 9:37 am, drew <d...@technologist.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Mar 9, 5:17 am, Whisper <beaver...@ozemail.com> wrote:
>
> > > It would actually be logistically impossible to pull something like this
> > > off, & I really would bet anything that it's all true. If it were fake
> > > it would have been obvious within hours of the event.
>
> > Not sure what you mean by 'fake'. Clearly the buildings dropped and
> > the people died.
>
> > The devil is in the detail.
>
> > > While I don't necessarily consider conspiracy theorists of low
> > > intelligence (they have ve$ted interests pushing this to gullible folk),
> > > I do consider all believers quite dumb.
>
> > Now you are confusing conspiracy theorists with those who just observe
> > and see inconsistencies
> > in the official explanations.
>
> > I have lived too long to believe everything that I read so I attempt
> > to analyze events from
> > as many angles as I can. It is difficult to remain impartial but it
> > is important to identify lies
> > and half-truths when you read them.....regardless of whether your gut
> > instinct tells you to
> > believe this source and NOT the other.
>
Few complex events, or even
> simple ones, can be reconstructed and explained with perfect
> completeness and clarity. Actual *affirmative evidence* is always
> sadly lacking for whatever "unofficial" theory is being pushed.
Parsimonious thinking tells us to accept the simplest answer.
The mistake conspiracy theorists make is that they are never satisfied
with
casting doubt upon some details of the official story. They re-
create the
whole story and their alternative scenario is even more
unlikely than official reports. This works only to discredit any
legitimate questions
that those skeptical of the official reports may have and puts anybody
who doesn't
accept the official story in the same camp as the 'conspiracy nuts'.
If
> you asked your kid what he did at the party last night, you might get
> a mumbled response that didn't quite seem to cover all the bases. But
> you could analyze his answer until the cows came home, and it still
> wouldn't prove that he had actually been abducted by aliens rather
> than attending the party.
I'm still chasing monsters out of bedrooms and trying to convince my
son
that the one who lives in his closet (there is no denying this one...I
can only
vouch for his character) is really a good guy who needs a place to
stay
until the weather gets better...and he wouldn't hurt anybody.
felangey
And let us not forget the principal of the 'big lie'.
Anyhoo, re. twin towers demolition job, in lieu of any concrete evidence of
chargers or explosive devices, I am calling an inside job by Fred Dibnah.
>I'm still chasing monsters out of bedrooms and trying to convince my
son
that the one who lives in his closet (there is no denying this one...I
can only
vouch for his character) is really a good guy who needs a place to
stay
until the weather gets better...and he wouldn't hurt anybody.<
Lol....cute.
Iceberg
> > 'conspiracy nuts'<
>
> And let us not forget the principal of the 'big lie'.
>
> Anyhoo, re. twin towers demolition job, in lieu of any concrete evidence of
> chargers or explosive devices, I am calling an inside job by Fred Dibnah.
oh wondered what happened to him, must be on the beach in the Kaymens,
after Dubya's payoff for the job :)
Superdave
they killed him. no shit. tey killed him in 2004!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Fred_Dibnah_Grave_in_2009.jpg
B F
Except, they were all on fire. Building 7 wasn't struck by a plane.
This doesn't change the fact that 1500 architectural and engineering
professionals agree that those buildings did not fall from fire
alone.
Sleepers will say, it was a combination of the plane destruction with
the intense heat. But, that doesn't explain building 7.
Joe Ramirez
>
> Sleepers will say, it was a combination of the plane destruction with
> the intense heat.
You mean "sleepers" like "B F" who pop up out of nowhere to
participate in a nutty conspiracy thread?
B F
> credible/film evidence of what happened, experts agree the steel
> girders melted causing the collapse etc. plus the terrorists had tried
> blowing up the towers back in 1992. was Bush's look really fake when
> he was told about it?
No experts believe the steel girders melted. It takes 2500-degrees
plus (f) to melt steel. Even NIST claims it may have got as hot as
1700-degrees and they are the ones who came up with the official
theory on the collapse. They believe that the heat weakened the
structural steel causing the steel trusses to bend inward, pulling the
walls with them. This caused the floors to start collapsing on one
another in a pancake effect. This is the official account called the
pancake theory.
> The Princess Diana killing and JFK are different
> as there are clear holes and missing evidence in the investigations,
> likewise the Dr.Kelly murder here in the UK, he was the guy who
> exposed that the Iraq invasion was based on 'sexed-up' lies. I'd say
> they are worthy of conspiracy theories as they're likely state
> sponsored assassinations.
If you think that 9/11 has 100% of the evidence and n holes left open,
you are sadly mistaken. I'm not saying it was an Inside Job or
anything like that, but you can not tell me that the budget the 9/11
Commission was given was sufficient enough to carry out a full-fledged
investigation. They gave them $3-million to start with and over the
course of the "investigation" gave them another $12-million. You know
how much the Whitewater Scandal budget was? $52-million was given to
investigate possible shady real estate deals that President Clinton
did. So, how in the world do we have no holes and 100% of the
evidence with $12-million given for the most significant crime ever
recorded in world history?
In the end, all I would ask for is that it be thoroughly
investigated. Regardless of Inside Job non-sense, or Conspiracy
Theory non-sense, or whatever. It just needs to have a real
investigation so the families of the victims can have their questions
answered, keeping in mind that they are victims without justice at
this point. Anything more than this that comes out of it would be
gravy at this point.
B F
> > the intense heat.
>
> You mean "sleepers" like "B F" who pop up out of nowhere to
> participate in a nutty conspiracy thread?
No, I mean people like Joe who pop up out of no where to refute said
conspiracy thread.
You know Joe, for all of your irrefutable arguments, other than a few
somewhat witty analogies that are manipulated to your own cause, you
have not even laid down one fact of evidence in any of your threads.
So, what is your point of being on this thread, other than to make
your OPINION known about this conspiracy thoery?
Joe Ramirez
> > > Sleepers will say, it was a combination of the plane destruction with
> > > the intense heat.
>
> > You mean "sleepers" like "B F" who pop up out of nowhere to
> > participate in a nutty conspiracy thread?
>
> No, I mean people like Joe who pop up out of no where to refute said
> conspiracy thread.
Er, I've been posting in RST since 1997. I use my real name when
posting. And you, "B F"? Who is your favorite tennis player?
B F
I always cheer for the home town favorite since it is such a globally
massive sport. I've been cheering for Andy Roddick since Pete Sampras
retired. He is actually from the midwest U.S., not the Northeast U.S.
like myself, but the Northeast puts out a lot of hockey players,
Tennis...no so much. So, I stick with an American guy.
I would never use my real name in a forum like this. Too many nuts
with vindictive personalities. You just never know what people are
willing to do over, say, a debate about a 9/11 conspiracy. I see
heated debates on the Red Sox forum where I participate and people
shout death threats about it. I'm not saying you are that type of
person, but there are those people out there. I am sure you yourself
can admit to that. So, that is my reasoning.
I will fully admit that I would never have been on this a tennis forum
if it were not for this thread. It popped up in my google alerts.
This conspiracy theory is getting big in CA and is going to be on the
next ballot as a referendum, so I've been trying to follow it.
But, with this said, my conversation is pertinent to the topic. I
have read the 9/11 commission report (painfully). I have read a lot
of the NIST report (painfully, but skipping some of the insignificant
stuff). So, I'd like to think that I can intelligently comment on
this thread, which I have done. It was you who called me out and
challenged me.
With this said, I will leave your Tennis forum and let you debate a
topic you know very little about while allowing you to comfortably
stick to your tennis. Good day Joe.
BF
Joe Ramirez
> I will fully admit that I would never have been on this a tennis forum
> if it were not for this thread. It popped up in my google alerts.
Thank you.
TT
Building 7 was collapsed because of fire and debris.
I would be interested to know your theory who did it then, how and why?
There's no point speculating without coherent motives for the action.
TT
Thanks a lot Joe, we finally get a 9/11 expert here and you drive him
away only because he's smart enough not to have wasted 15 years in this
hellhole we call rst...
Superdave
I believe what happened happened and in no conspiracy theories beyond
who did it. And, it wasn't Al Queda. I suspect it was those same guys who
assassinated that guy in Dubai a year ago. You know who just made it look
as if their enemy did it aka the USS Liberty attack.
Joe Ramirez
> 11.3.2011 23:41, Joe Ramirez kirjoitti:
>
> > On Mar 11, 4:35 pm, B F<pornogroo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >> I will fully admit that I would never have been on this a tennis forum
> >> if it were not for this thread. It popped up in my google alerts.
> > Thank you.
>
> Thanks a lot Joe, we finally get a 9/11 expert here
Cheer up -- the Easter Bunny will soon arrive to replace him.
> and you drive him
> away only because he's smart enough not to have wasted 15 years in this
> hellhole we call rst...
I didn't say he couldn't post here. I simply pointed out the rich
irony of an anonymous, unknown person's receiving an "alert" and going
to a forum he'd never been to before in order to complain about
"sleepers."
TT
> On Mar 12, 7:19 am, TT<d...@do.it> wrote:
>> 11.3.2011 23:41, Joe Ramirez kirjoitti:
>>
>>> On Mar 11, 4:35 pm, B F<pornogroo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> I will fully admit that I would never have been on this a tennis forum
>>>> if it were not for this thread. It popped up in my google alerts.
>>> Thank you.
>> Thanks a lot Joe, we finally get a 9/11 expert here
> Cheer up -- the Easter Bunny will soon arrive to replace him.
>
Thanks man. I feel much better now.
Scott
were the laws of physics suspended on 9/11/01?
Calimero
Not a single specialist in structural engineering disputes that the
collapse was caused by the fire which was caused by the planes
crashing into the buildings.
You will always have the usual nutters who claim the Holocaust didn't
happen, several shooters killed JFK, or the moon landings didn't
happen.
So what?
Max
Calimero
> On Mar 8, 9:24 pm, "felangey" <o...@cloudnine.com> wrote:
>
> > >I'm no engineer and no conspiracy theorist but there's something fishy
>
> > about the way those buildings dropped....especially the one that
> > wasn't on
> > fire. ;-)<
>
> > 1500 architectural and engineering professionals agree with you. And me! :)
>
> Except, they were all on fire. Building 7 wasn't struck by a plane.
>
> This doesn't change the fact that 1500 architectural and engineering
> professionals agree that those buildings did not fall from fire
> alone.
There are about 80 000 architectural and engineering professionals in
the US alone, a country which is known for whackos. Some of them
repair old cars in garages. Some are planing family homes.
"Architectural and engineering professionals", my ass ...
Max
number_six
>
> Unbelievable stuff.
> snip <
Yes, unbelievable. Literally.