Have to hand it to the cocky little git...
felangey
RzR
> ...that was one hell of a hold under the pressure!
very dumb how he played that break point in he next game
had an opportunity or two, and didnt go for his shot
whats he thinking that he will outlast nadal?
felangey
>
> had an opportunity or two, and didnt go for his shot
>
> whats he thinking that he will outlast nadal?<
He's an interesting case. You're right about him backing off balls for sure.
There were some great putaway opportunities. He can whack a ball....just
seems reluctant to pull the trigger.
Damn I wish this was Lopez. Not. :)
felangey
sharp tonight....would spook most 18 year olds.
Lets see if he can remember to play his own game in set 2.
Pedro Dias
I think he thinks he'll get under Nadal's skin. He may not be wrong:
his nerves are showing, and Nadal's spin is clearly taking some
adjusting to, but I believe I see some potential.
felangey
He has that alright.
Pedro Dias
> >but I believe I see some potential.
>
> He has that alright.
I started watching last game of the first set (thank god for
heartburn), I it struck me that Nadal, in spite of the scoreline,
seemed to be disgruntled. In fact, I can't recall when I've seen him
so far from wholly gruntled. I can't tell whether it's Tomic's doing,
or whether Nadal's feeling crappy, but Tomic has a quick break to lead
the second 3-0.
felangey
Pedro Dias
Hard to fully credit Tomic: Nadal is serving like a spavined nag with
terminal colic. But Tomic is doing some good stuff out there. Whether
he's capable of discomforting Nadal when he's feeling healthy is to be
seen, but he's giving him fits tonight. Double break up in the second.
I know the Australian broadcasters are happy just to be here, but they
need to notice something is up with Nadal besides Tomic's genius play.
felangey
terminal colic. <
First set Nadal brought out the big serve.
kaennorsing
Why do you assume Rafa's unhealthy? Maybe he's just feeling the
pressure of the potential 4th consecutive slam? Pressure can do funny
things, you know.
Pedro Dias
Because I'm looking at him? Because I've seen him under pressure
before? Because he's been ill recently?
Besides, my point is just that Nadal is part of what's happening out
there, not just Tomic. Whether he's choking or ill isn't really the
point - though I definitely think he's not well.
Genius Tomic is letting him off the hook, though. Nadal's serving a
bit better, too.
felangey
You mean he's feeling a bit better now? ;)
Pedro Dias
this day and age: taking the pace off the ball, forcing the other guy
to generate the pace, drawing errors, and ultimately getting your
opponent to self-destruct. Top players just have too many put-away
options when faced with an off-speed ball. Nadal's just not executing
consistently right now. If Tomic can sneak out a set, drag out the
match, he may have a shot tonight. But I don't see it as a tactic
generally.
Pedro Dias
> >Nadal's serving a bit better, too,
>
> You mean he's feeling a bit better now? ;)
No, funny guy: just that he's bearing down, trying to gut out the set.
Still looks like poop on a stick.
Whisper
er, why not?
Simon had a lot of success with the tactic the other day v Federer -
coulda easily won the match. Seems everytime he hit a softish shot Fed
hit an error.
1st rule of tennis is to not let your opponent get in a rhythm, be it
Federer or a backyard hack.
I know you clowns are impressed with tempo of modern hitting, but it's
the dumbest tennis.
Pedro Dias
It's not the tempo, it's the additional control and the options it
brings. It's not impossible to do it, but (like serve and volley) the
odds are just shifted sharply against it. Fact is, even Murray, who is
(at this point) much better at it than Tomic is, can make a go of it
at the very top, and has had to focus on aggression to succeed. Best
you can get that way is a reputation as a spoiler, and the occasional
scalp. But if you can't get the top players on an off day, it's become
a very tough grind.
Thanks for the rules recap, though: I was actually under the
impression that was Rule 6, so it's good to get it straightened out.
Rule 1. Thanks.
Back to bed. Tomic needed this set to give himself room.
Whisper
Maybe, but Tomic can still win this match. Rafa looking tired & the kid
can go all night. He's creating chances to win most games.
GOYLE
spavined nag with
terminal colic. . . . . . Too funny. . . . . . .
GOYLE
Yes, I noticed that too. At the time when the cameras pan over him and
he is walking back to serve he has this look like a cow chewing their
cud.
Viper
Tennis is a sausage factory, comprised of either screeching Russian
amazons with ugly strokes or grunting Europeans, who'd be busy with the
beach volleyball circuit if it were not for the polymer technology
enshrined in the pizza trays that pass as tennis raquets.
I can't believe that people would criticise a kid like Tomic, who
presents more variety and actually comes on to the court with a plan in
hand. But then again, this group has some of the most prized fuckwits in
usenet
Viper
Pedro Dias
Hi, I'm a fuckwit, pleased to meet you.
As far as I could tell, Tomic's plan was "I'll be kooky, love my
expressionless ass!" Not only that, he didn't do "kooky" especially
well, what with throwing in errors and silly choices at key moments.
And then there's the fact that, as far as the whole notion of taking
the air out of the ball goes, it didn't work for Murray - who is a
whole lot better at it - so why do we suddenly feel like it's a good
idea?
Good tactic. Miserable strategy.
Joe Ramirez
> And then there's the fact that, as far as the whole notion of taking
> the air out of the ball goes, it didn't work for Murray - who is a
> whole lot better at it - so why do we suddenly feel like it's a good
> idea?
>
> Good tactic. Miserable strategy.
Yes, it's not a winning strategy against Nadal. He's not really
susceptible to being multispun to death, as Fed and especially Murray
have learned. Murray had to become Aggressive Andy to succeed against
Rafa. Similarly, although Tomic has great control of his varied shots,
the variety alone didn't really do much damage. I think the success
that Tomic did enjoy against Nadal (though whether you define a
straight-set loss, but with more games earned than many expected, as
"success" is up to you) came largely from two things: (1) Tomic is
able to crank the ball very hard when he wants to, and it was the flat
hitting that hurt Rafa, not the soft stuff; and (2) Tomic is a big guy
with good reach who isn't especially troubled by Nadal's high-bouncing
shots, forcing Rafa to work the points more, rather than simply
cleaning up feeble responses to his heavy artillery.
Pedro Dias
So you felt Nadal put in a credible performance? I watched Tomic's
"good" set, from the last game of the first through the first game of
the third, and I thought Nadal was far, far from well. He was able to
lift his performance for short stretches, but overall he was stiff and
sluggish, and seemed ill. To me, the fact that his first serve
percentage has dropped from the usual mid-seventies to somewhere in
the fifties is an obvious indication that something is not well.
Joe Ramirez
> On Jan 22, 5:57 pm, Joe Ramirez <josephmrami...@netzero.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Jan 22, 4:42 pm, Pedro Dias <pedrod...@snip.net> wrote:
>
> > > And then there's the fact that, as far as the whole notion of taking
> > > the air out of the ball goes, it didn't work for Murray - who is a
> > > whole lot better at it - so why do we suddenly feel like it's a good
> > > idea?
>
> > > Good tactic. Miserable strategy.
>
> > Yes, it's not a winning strategy against Nadal. He's not really
> > susceptible to being multispun to death, as Fed and especially Murray
> > have learned. Murray had to become Aggressive Andy to succeed against
> > Rafa. Similarly, although Tomic has great control of his varied shots,
> > the variety alone didn't really do much damage. I think the success
> > that Tomic did enjoy against Nadal (though whether you define a
> > straight-set loss, but with more games earned than many expected, as
> > "success" is up to you) came largely from two things: (1) Tomic is
> > able to crank the ball very hard when he wants to, and it was the flat
> > hitting that hurt Rafa, not the soft stuff; and (2) Tomic is a big guy
> > with good reach who isn't especially troubled by Nadal's high-bouncing
> > shots, forcing Rafa to work the points more, rather than simply
> > cleaning up feeble responses to his heavy artillery.
>
> So you felt Nadal put in a credible performance?
It was about average. Not dominating, but then as noted, Tomic is a
tall fellow with some power -- tough for Nadal to dominate him. Rafa's
attack wasn't in top form, but he played some superb defense at times.
And coming back from 0-4 to win a set 7-5 was vintage Nadal (sure, he
had some help from Tomic, but help from the other guy is almost always
need in such circumstances; the key is not giving up).
Whisper
er, Rafa actually said 'Tomic is the kind of player who makes you play bad'.
Get it?
GOYLE
>
> - Show quoted text -
I got it but Nadal didn't play that bad. He wasn't 100% in form from
last year coming out of wimbledon and USO but I think Nadal is very
humble saying it though.
Viper
Thanks for treating that humourously, but was referring to the one or
two dismissive posters who felt it necessary to criticise the kid out of
hand
> As far as I could tell, Tomic's plan was "I'll be kooky, love my
> expressionless ass!" Not only that, he didn't do "kooky" especially
> well, what with throwing in errors and silly choices at key moments.
Yeah granted, but that's inevitably a symptom of being an 18 year old,
where instinct often operates at the expense of common tennis sense. The
low percentage stuff is invariably associated with a lack of experience,
unless your name is Monfils.
> And then there's the fact that, as far as the whole notion of taking
> the air out of the ball goes, it didn't work for Murray - who is a
> whole lot better at it - so why do we suddenly feel like it's a good
> idea?
>
> Good tactic. Miserable strategy.
>
I think his variation included not just spin, flight and raquet speed,
but he played a lot of balls down the centre. The only dissapointment
was his lack of a Dibbs/Solomon style 'moonball' :)
Tennis is not unlike cricket, where slower balls force the batsman to
create his own pace.
I'm not suggesting Tomic is going to be a world beater, but in my mind
he displayed the potential to be very good.
Viper
Pedro Dias
He has the tools. What bothered me was the sense that he was choosing
shots not because of a strategy, not because they were effective, but
because they were "kewl", in a sort of rebel-with-a-racquet, look-at-
me-I'm-different performance. I don't like people who place attitude
above substance, and he struck me as doing it in spades.
As you say, he's eighteen, and that sort of thing is endemic in that
population. But if he doesn't snap out of it, he gets nowhere. I still
believe a healthy Nadal would have embarrassed him. And eighteen is
not as young for a tennis player as it would be for a civilian.