THATS how we deal with Nazis today in Germany!

[calim...@gmx.de]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2017/08/13/an-american-tourist-gave-the-nazi-salute-in-germany-so-a-stranger-beat-him-up-police-say/?utm_term=.5ff90472119b


Throw the bum out! And give the stranger a medal!


Max

[*skriptis]

calim...@gmx.de Wrote in message:

> https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2017/08/13/an-american-tourist-gave-the-nazi-salute-in-germany-so-a-stranger-beat-him-up-police-say/?utm_term=.5ff90472119b
>
>
> Throw the bum out! And give the stranger a medal!

<https://alt-right-news.blogspot.in/2017/08/germany-takes-out-its-
history-phobia-on.html?m=1>



The latest victims of German humorlessness and historical
vindictiveness are two innocent Chinese tourists who were
arrested recently by the German Gestapo for making a couple of
jokey Hitler salutes in front of the Reichstag building as they
took photographs with the cell phones. 

The Chinese men, aged 36 and 49, probably knew a bit about German
history, as comics featuring Hitler are quite popular in the
East, where he is seen as a pretty cool guy, and thought this
would be a good way to signal how familiar they were with German
culture.


Anyway, because Germany continues to experience such extreme
"history phobia," these innocent visitors from the East were
hauled off "Tienanmen Square style" to the cells of the Berlin
Stasi, from where they were released on bail of ?500. 

As they could potentially get 6 months in jail for their innocent
act, I suggest they immediately slip across the border into some
other EU country and fly back to China, where they can enjoy
relative freedom.


--


----Android NewsGroup Reader----
http://usenet.sinaapp.com/

[soccerfan777]

Innocent act?

[joh]

Op zondag 13 augustus 2017 23:24:35 UTC+2 schreef *skriptis:

> calim...@gmx.de Wrote in message:
> > https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2017/08/13/an-american-tourist-gave-the-nazi-salute-in-germany-so-a-stranger-beat-him-up-police-say/?utm_term=.5ff90472119b
> >
> >
> > Throw the bum out! And give the stranger a medal!
>
>
>
> <https://alt-right-news.blogspot.in/2017/08/germany-takes-out-its-
> history-phobia-on.html?m=1>
>
>
>
> The latest victims of German humorlessness and historical
> vindictiveness are two innocent Chinese tourists who were
> arrested recently by the German Gestapo for making a couple of
> jokey Hitler salutes in front of the Reichstag building as they
> took photographs with the cell phones. 
>
> The Chinese men, aged 36 and 49, probably knew a bit about German
> history, as comics featuring Hitler are quite popular in the
> East, where he is seen as a pretty cool guy, and thought this
> would be a good way to signal how familiar they were with German
> culture.
>

Well, how familiar were they with German culture?

[The Iceberg]

On Monday, 14 August 2017 02:13:46 UTC+1, soccerfan777 wrote:
> Innocent act?

you think giving a joke nazi salute deserves beating up - why weren't the guys that did the beating up arrested for GBH? do you reckon anyone who has a different opinion to your own should be beaten up too? should anyone that supports Trump be beaten up??

[The Iceberg]

On Sunday, 13 August 2017 22:03:20 UTC+1, calim...@gmx.de wrote:
> https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2017/08/13/an-american-tourist-gave-the-nazi-salute-in-germany-so-a-stranger-beat-him-up-police-say/?utm_term=.5ff90472119b
>
>
> Throw the bum out! And give the stranger a medal!

should anyone wearing a CCCP shirt or Mao or Ho Chi Minh or Che Guevara outfit be beaten up too?

[*skriptis]

The Iceberg <iceber...@gmail.com> Wrote in message:

> On Monday, 14 August 2017 02:13:46 UTC+1, soccerfan777 wrote:
>> Innocent act?
>
> you think giving a joke nazi salute deserves beating up - why weren't the guys that did the beating up arrested for GBH? do you reckon anyone who has a different opinion to your own should be beaten up too? should anyone that supports Trump be beaten up??
>

They would have locked up and beaten Prince Harry as well who was
fooling around couple of years ago wearing nazi uniform to a
costume party.

Those Germans. Can't trust them to ever behave normally. Gestapo
in fascism, Stasi in communism and now PC thought police in
liberalism.

[calim...@gmx.de]

No, that's free speech.


Max

[bob]

On Sun, 13 Aug 2017 14:03:18 -0700 (PDT), calim...@gmx.de wrote:

>https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2017/08/13/an-american-tourist-gave-the-nazi-salute-in-germany-so-a-stranger-beat-him-up-police-say/?utm_term=.5ff90472119b
>Throw the bum out! And give the stranger a medal!

c'mon, some drunk idiot? lol.

but seriously, germany doesn't seem too free. IMO better to get rid of
nazi and other such scum by ignoring them, making them completely
irrelevant - as they are now- not by force. because who gets to
choose which scum are forcibly removed? slippery slope.

bob

[bob]

who'd have thought china more free than germany? :-)

bob

[stephenJ]

Yes, I'm as anti-Nazi as they come, but I was stunned when I read that
Chinese tourists were arrested for making a Hitler salute in Germany.
Laugh at them, condemn them, do both, but everyone should have the
right to freely express themselves politically, no matter how odious and
dumb their beliefs, as long as it doesn't take the form of violence. The
USA is much freer, and that's the way it should be.







---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

[bob]

that's *one* of the differences between you and i VS max. it's become
very apparent past 12 months. i understand the german mindset, but
it's not the solution IMO.

bob

[joh]

Op zondag 20 augustus 2017 20:04:46 UTC+2 schreef StephenJ:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_incarceration_rate

[TT]

And you think Nazis would allow you the freedom of opinion?

[TT]

Germans overreacted for understandable reasons. Doesn't make the country
less free than USA though.

[Manco]

On Sunday, August 20, 2017 at 11:47:15 AM UTC-7, TT wrote:
>
> And you think Nazis would allow you the freedom of opinion?

So 'bash the fash' is your only option?

[bob]

the nazi philosophy is so unpopular that maybe .05% of the people are
ok with it? that's why it's not worth losing freedom over.

the point is that freedom should choose what's best, with free will,
even if it has elements of communism/socialism, capitalism, or
anywhere in between. the choice is to be made freely. we look back at
the mccarthy era as a stain, you call it a stain, but against a tiny
.05% group of skinheads it's ok? no. what we can do is make laws that
outlaw BEHAVIOR, not PEOPLE.

as it is, nazis and white supremacists have been turned into a
punchline, as nobody takes this tiny group seriously. however, if we
bend principle for them, who do we bend it for next??

bob

[joh]

Op zondag 20 augustus 2017 20:46:39 UTC+2 schreef joh:

...and another succes story from the land of the free:

' Liberal drug policies in the Netherlands may be responsible for a rate of drug-related deaths almost exactly ten times lower than in the US.'

https://www.theguardian.com/inequality/2017/aug/21/where-is-the-worlds-most-dangerous-country-for-young-people

Let's not talk about the chance of getting killed at school.

[Brian W Lawrence]

It's hardly an overreaction for police to arrest someone who has
committed a crime though. Tourists may be treated with some leniency -
the two Chinese were each fined $600 ( I think). The more-recent US
tourist was very drunk, so may get a similar fine, as did a Canadian
a few years ago. It's also illegal in Austria, Switzerland, the Czech
Rep., Slovakia & Sweden.

[calim...@gmx.de]

0.05 %?
I'd say that at least 15 % of Trump voters are Nazis/KKK.
Those people have to feel repression, by the government, by employers, by neighbors, by everybody.


Max

[bob]

the nazi american party has 400 members and has 0 seats in any
national or state gov't, and no governorships. talk about impotent.

i understand your fear, it destroyed your country. but today, 400
members that are universally condemned by everyone else, and have 0
political power? THAT pathetic group is worth our freedom? because
after them, what next? nope. if we have to go down that road it better
be for a real threat, not 400 skinheads. you know in charlottesville,
this "huge" unite the right rally drew iniitally 250 people? and maybe
1000 counter? we once had the "million man march," we have marches
with many many thousands for both good and bad causes.

but since you're german, you can get slack for fear of fascists, that'
fine. unless you're closet nazi which seems likely.

bob

[calim...@gmx.de]

On Tuesday, August 22, 2017 at 7:31:23 PM UTC+2, bob wrote:
> On Mon, 21 Aug 2017 10:42:36 -0700 (PDT), calim...@gmx.de wrote:
>

> >On Sunday, August 20, 2017 at 10:34:20 PM UTC+2, bob wrote:h

Read US intern forums.
Just 400 US Nazis?

Lol ...


Max

[*skriptis]

calim...@gmx.de Wrote in message:

Just?
I think figure is shockingly high.

It's frightening to think there are actually 400 people in USA
who'd want to exterminate Poles and Russians and hand over their
lands to Germany.

[calim...@gmx.de]

There are several million fascists in the USA. Not as much as in your country, but still ...


Max

[*skriptis]

That's different though.

E.g. Spain was under fascism for 4 decades, after their civil war
ended, never attacked anyone, never persecuted own people,
Eisenhower visited them etc. Almost totally normal country.


Also Italy was fascist during ww2, and the Jews fled there for
protection during ww2, etc.

You can't compare ordinary fascism to German fascism.


So if there are some ordinary fascists in USA, that can only be
positive. Speaks of truly diverse society.

[The Iceberg]

it odd max is so against them considering he voted for the nazis.

[The Iceberg]

what I don't get is why aren't you more violent towards communists? 60million+ were murdered by Stalin, Lenin, Mao, Pol Pot etc. yet you seem fine with them marching all over the place. Raja's the same, he loves how they killed all those people too.

[calim...@gmx.de]

I hate commies. Always hated them. Are there any in the USA?


Max

[stephenJ]

On 8/21/2017 11:33 AM, Brian W Lawrence wrote:
> On 20/08/2017 19:54, TT wrote:
>> stephenJ kirjoitti 20.8.2017 klo 21:04:
>>> On 8/20/2017 1:00 PM, bob wrote:
>>>> On Sun, 13 Aug 2017 14:03:18 -0700 (PDT), calim...@gmx.de wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2017/08/13/an-american-tourist-gave-the-nazi-salute-in-germany-so-a-stranger-beat-him-up-police-say/?utm_term=.5ff90472119b
>>>>>
>>>>> Throw the bum out! And give the stranger a medal!
>>>>
>>>> c'mon, some drunk idiot? lol.
>>>>
>>>> but seriously, germany doesn't seem too free. IMO better to get rid of
>>>> nazi and other such scum by ignoring them, making them completely
>>>> irrelevant - as they are now-  not by force.  because who gets to
>>>> choose which scum are forcibly removed? slippery slope.
>>>>
>>>> bob
>>>>
>>>
>>> Yes, I'm as anti-Nazi as they come, but I was stunned when I read
>>> that Chinese tourists were arrested for making a Hitler salute in
>>> Germany. Laugh at them, condemn  them, do both, but everyone should
>>> have the right to freely express themselves politically, no matter
>>> how odious and dumb their beliefs, as long as it doesn't take the
>>> form of violence. The USA is much freer, and that's the way it should
>>> be.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Germans overreacted for understandable reasons. Doesn't make the
>> country less free than USA though.
>
> It's hardly an overreaction for police to arrest someone who has
> committed a crime though.

The police aspect isn't the 'overreaction', it's the whole wrong-headed
concept of the government making this a crime to begin with.

[calim...@gmx.de]

It would be ludicrous to allow the Nazi salute in today's Germany. Who could be so dense to think otherwise? Except Trumpers of course??


Max

[bob]

you're irrational because of what happened to your country, thinking
it's happening again. like a man swept up in a tidal wave fearful of 6
cm waves at the beach. understandable why you're irrational, because
it was destruction. slack granted...

bob

[bob]

you tell me, you're the one on all the "american forums." :-)

bob

[calim...@gmx.de]

Difference is that Hitler didn't have nukes at his disposal!

Max

[calim...@gmx.de]

About 50 % racists and antisemites!


Max

[bob]

so usa is half racists/amtisemites and half commies? oh my.

bob

[bob]

he had enough ovens.

bob

[calim...@gmx.de]

Hitler needed 4 years to kill 6 million jews.
The orange clown could kill hundreds of millions within one hour.


Max

[The Iceberg]

Why? Any nut can do it other countries? How many more years til you get over it? 1000? If you're all so fine and upstanding now, why does it matter? Everywhere these nuts can salute all they want, it just puts people off them.

[calim...@gmx.de]

On Friday, August 25, 2017 at 1:10:27 PM UTC+2, The Iceberg wrote:
> Why? Any nut can do it other countries? How many more years til you get over it? 1000? If you're all so fine and upstanding now, why does it matter? Everywhere these nuts can salute all they want, it just puts people off them.

Don't forget that the Nazi party got only 33.1 % in the last free elections in Germany (1932) before Hitler came to power on January 30th, 1933.

Trump has what, 46.1 %?


Max

[stephenJ]

Why, because Germans are more prone to being duped by Nazis than others
are? Oh that's right - I guess you are, LOL.

[stephenJ]

On 8/25/2017 6:23 AM, calim...@gmx.de wrote:
> On Friday, August 25, 2017 at 1:10:27 PM UTC+2, The Iceberg wrote:
>> Why? Any nut can do it other countries? How many more years til you get over it? 1000? If you're all so fine and upstanding now, why does it matter? Everywhere these nuts can salute all they want, it just puts people off them.
>
> Don't forget that the Nazi party got only 33.1 % in the last free elections in Germany (1932)

"Only" 33.1%?

What happened to this notion of the reconstructed German who couldn't
possibly ever let Nazism happen again? You don't trust yourselves so you
have to restrict freedom of speech?

Very sad. :(

[stephenJ]

Max keeps doing his best to compare Trump to Hitler, an astonishing
thing. Maybe that's part of the national recovery process or is it some
strange kind of denial?

[calim...@gmx.de]

I don't deny that the orange clown is a cryptofascist. You do.


Max

[calim...@gmx.de]

A Trump would not be possible in modern Germany.
Do you think the Nazi salute is verboten in Germany we are afraid Germans could walk that road again? Lol ...


Max

[calim...@gmx.de]

On Friday, August 25, 2017 at 6:08:55 PM UTC+2, StephenJ wrote:
> On 8/25/2017 6:23 AM, calim...@gmx.de wrote:
> > On Friday, August 25, 2017 at 1:10:27 PM UTC+2, The Iceberg wrote:
> >> Why? Any nut can do it other countries? How many more years til you get over it? 1000? If you're all so fine and upstanding now, why does it matter? Everywhere these nuts can salute all they want, it just puts people off them.
> >
> > Don't forget that the Nazi party got only 33.1 % in the last free elections in Germany (1932)
>
> "Only" 33.1%?
>
> What happened to this notion of the reconstructed German who couldn't
> possibly ever let Nazism happen again? You don't trust yourselves so you
> have to restrict freedom of speech?
>
> Very sad. :(
>

The reconstruction was AFTER the Nazi rule.
The last free election I mentioned with the NASDAP gaining 33.1 % was right BEFORE the Nazi rule, dummy.


Max

[stephenJ]

Of course the reconstruction was AFTER Nazi rule, who said otherwise?

So again: What happened to this notion of the reconstructed German who

couldn't possibly ever let Nazism happen again? You don't trust
yourselves so you have to restrict freedom of speech?

Very sad. :(

[stephenJ]

Well, what is it then?

[calim...@gmx.de]

Because the Nazis are responsible for a world war, the Holocaust and millions of dead Germans maybe?


Max

[calim...@gmx.de]

On Friday, August 25, 2017 at 11:16:11 PM UTC+2, StephenJ wrote:
> On 8/25/2017 4:02 PM, calim...@gmx.de wrote:
> > On Friday, August 25, 2017 at 6:08:55 PM UTC+2, StephenJ wrote:
> >> On 8/25/2017 6:23 AM, calim...@gmx.de wrote:
> >>> On Friday, August 25, 2017 at 1:10:27 PM UTC+2, The Iceberg wrote:
> >>>> Why? Any nut can do it other countries? How many more years til you get over it? 1000? If you're all so fine and upstanding now, why does it matter? Everywhere these nuts can salute all they want, it just puts people off them.
> >>>
> >>> Don't forget that the Nazi party got only 33.1 % in the last free elections in Germany (1932)
> >>
> >> "Only" 33.1%?
> >>
> >> What happened to this notion of the reconstructed German who couldn't
> >> possibly ever let Nazism happen again? You don't trust yourselves so you
> >> have to restrict freedom of speech?
> >>
> >> Very sad. :(
> >>
> >
> >
> > The reconstruction was AFTER the Nazi rule.
> > The last free election I mentioned with the NASDAP gaining 33.1 % was right BEFORE the Nazi rule, dummy.
>
> Of course the reconstruction was AFTER Nazi rule, who said otherwise?
>
> So again: What happened to this notion of the reconstructed German who
> couldn't possibly ever let Nazism happen again?

What has "reconstruction" to do with 33.1 % Nazi votes in 1932?


Max

[*skriptis]

calim...@gmx.de Wrote in message:

Funky how nazis
are guilty even for the dead Germans, couple of
millions of them, but no words about tens of millions people in
Poland/Ukraine/Russia.

Usual atoning is reserved for the stuff that is "a must" when
dealing with the Americans/West, namely the holocaust, and
perhaps the war itself.

And that's about it, coming from the Nazis.

[calim...@gmx.de]

What about "responsible for a world war, the Holocaust" didn't reach your screen, Russki troll?
And what about the fact that the Nazis killed hundreds of thousand Germans and were also responsible for the death of several millions more is too complicated to understand?
We don't want fascists like you here anymore and that's why we prohibit your salutes and insignia!


Max

[*skriptis]

It's not my salute, it's yours.

And it's plain obvious you have no remorse for the millions you
killed in the east, you never talk about that, and those numbers
even exceed the holocaust numbers, such is your hatred, instead
you're boring us today with banning hand salutes, arresting
tourists and having magazine covers with Trump the nazi which is
most devious actually, calling out others for something that only
existed in your country.

Despicable.

[stephenJ]

What has 33% Nazi vote in 1932 have to do with anything except how
stupid 33% of Germans were in 1932? You keep stupidly dodging the question:

What happened to this notion of the reconstructed German who couldn't
possibly ever let Nazism happen again? You don't trust yourselves so you
have to restrict freedom of speech?

Very sad. :(

[stephenJ]

What has that got to do with someone flying a nazi flag today?

The confederate flag was a flag of a 'country' that enslaved millions
and caused a civil war that killed 700,000 people, and had a goal of
tearing the USA apart, and yet the USA allows anyone to fly a
confederate flag if they want. Why? Because we cherish freedom of speech
and realize that the best way to counter racist/idiot ideas is with more
speech.

What is Germany afraid of?

[calim...@gmx.de]

It's a fascist salute.
I'm anti-Trump and anti-Putin. You suck their cocks here in RST.
So it's not mine salute, its yours.

>
> And it's plain obvious you have no remorse for the millions you
> killed in the east,

I killed no one in the east,

> you never talk about that, and those numbers
> even exceed the holocaust numbers,

Revealing how you don't count the Holocaust among "killings in the east".

> such is your hatred, instead
> you're boring us today with banning hand salutes, arresting
> tourists and having magazine covers with Trump the nazi which is
> most devious actually, calling out others for something that only
> existed in your country.
>

What about the "fine people" in Charlottesville whom your orange clown praised last week?
What about Putin and his fans?
They are the fascist danger. Not some German Nazis from 75 years ago.


Max

[calim...@gmx.de]

On Saturday, August 26, 2017 at 3:01:51 PM UTC+2, StephenJ wrote:
> On 8/25/2017 5:02 PM, calim...@gmx.de wrote:
> > On Friday, August 25, 2017 at 11:16:11 PM UTC+2, StephenJ wrote:
> >> On 8/25/2017 4:02 PM, calim...@gmx.de wrote:
> >>> On Friday, August 25, 2017 at 6:08:55 PM UTC+2, StephenJ wrote:
> >>>> On 8/25/2017 6:23 AM, calim...@gmx.de wrote:
> >>>>> On Friday, August 25, 2017 at 1:10:27 PM UTC+2, The Iceberg wrote:
> >>>>>> Why? Any nut can do it other countries? How many more years til you get over it? 1000? If you're all so fine and upstanding now, why does it matter? Everywhere these nuts can salute all they want, it just puts people off them.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Don't forget that the Nazi party got only 33.1 % in the last free elections in Germany (1932)
> >>>>
> >>>> "Only" 33.1%?
> >>>>
> >>>> What happened to this notion of the reconstructed German who couldn't
> >>>> possibly ever let Nazism happen again? You don't trust yourselves so you
> >>>> have to restrict freedom of speech?
> >>>>
> >>>> Very sad. :(
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> The reconstruction was AFTER the Nazi rule.
> >>> The last free election I mentioned with the NASDAP gaining 33.1 % was right BEFORE the Nazi rule, dummy.
> >>
> >> Of course the reconstruction was AFTER Nazi rule, who said otherwise?
> >>
> >> So again: What happened to this notion of the reconstructed German who
> >> couldn't possibly ever let Nazism happen again?
> >
> >
> > What has "reconstruction" to do with 33.1 % Nazi votes in 1932?
>
> What has 33% Nazi vote in 1932 have to do with anything except how
> stupid 33% of Germans were in 1932? You keep stupidly dodging the question:
>
> What happened to this notion of the reconstructed German who couldn't
> possibly ever let Nazism happen again?

That notion is well alive.
WE don't have Trumpism here in Germany, you have.

> You don't trust yourselves so you
> have to restrict freedom of speech?
>

Giving the Nazi salute in public has nothing to do with free speech.


Max

[calim...@gmx.de]

No, because quite a lot of Americans still are very proud of the ante-bellum-South and the Confederate "war heroes" like Lee, Jackson, Stuart, Forrest, Pickett, Hood (Longstreet not so much, wondet why).

> What is Germany afraid of?
>
>

Losing the World Cup next year, Trump destroying the Free West, Russia hacking our election.

> ---
> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
> https://www.avast.com/

Max

[*skriptis]

No, it's yours.
So we settled it?

>> And it's plain obvious you have no remorse for the millions you
>> killed in the east,
>
> I killed no one in the east,
>
>> you never talk about that, and those numbers
>> even exceed the holocaust numbers,
>
>
> Revealing how you don't count the Holocaust among "killings in the east".

Why should we? Jews were persecuted over whole of Nazi occupied
Europe. That was just one of your "projects".

However I was talking about the east. Haven't you read mein kampf?

Hitler's main goal as seen in mein kampf was to eradicate Slavs in
the east and colonize those areas with Germans, to make Germany
huuge. Big. Lebensraum.
Living space.

"Normal" colonization is what British did, e.g. came to India and
set a rule, secured their trade routes, sure exploited a bit, but
brought some progress too. Not all is bad. They didn't try to
kill everyone there and repopulate the lands. You tried that in
the European East.

That's a scientific fact. That's your crime number 1, both in
intent and numbers of killings you committed there. And it's not
only Nazism that did it but it's an expression of centuries of
German imperialism. That's the most important thing and is
conveniently overlooked whenever you "denounce" that evil
ideology. Strange you're always forgetting to denounce number 1
goal of your fuhrer. Or isn't?

Whereas historians are still divided over the holocaust of the
Jews, in two groups, intentionalists vs functionalists. Hitler
certainly hated Jews but according to the functionalists, if
there was no war the way it happened, and he got what he wanted
in the east, shipping Jews off to Madagascar, or allowing them to
flee wherever would have satisfied him. Or wouldn't, maybe
intentionalists are right. It doesn't matter, people were killed,
brutally.

But anyway the Poles and Russians were about to be exterminated
either way and their land colonized. No such ambiguity there.
That was what the whole Nazism was about. Enlarging Germany at
the expense of dead Slavs.

You never atone for that, instead you're trying reverse-accuse me
of antisemitism now. You're really disgusting.

You should really come to terms regarding German imperialism and
genocide in the east. Portraying whole Nazism thing as "some
wacko dude seized power and started killing jews for no good
reason, and it can happen everywhere", that's both retarded and
historically inaccurate.

But I know why do you do it.

>
>> such is your hatred, instead
>> you're boring us today with banning hand salutes, arresting
>> tourists and having magazine covers with Trump the nazi which is
>> most devious actually, calling out others for something that only
>> existed in your country.
>>
>
> What about the "fine people" in Charlottesville whom your orange clown praised last week?
> What about Putin and his fans?
> They are the fascist danger. Not some German Nazis from 75 years ago.

"Fine" applies to everyone who came there peacefully to advocate
for preservation of the old monuments that were there for decades
and that are part of US history.

If Lee is honored at west point, and he is, it certainly makes no
sense to act as if his statues are in any way anti-American and
let violent mobs to tear them down.

[stephenJ]

Actually, it has everything to do with it. It expresses a recognizable
political brief to others in a non-violent way, a fundamental human
right. In that formal, content-free sense, it's no different than flying
a social democratic or green party flag. That the nazi salute expresses
a political belief that is in my view rightly regarded as odious by the
vast majority of the public makes it all the more important that it be
protected by the law, as popular positions are by their nature in far
less need of protection.

The great danger in banning the swastika in public is that if the
government can do that, in principle it can ban any political symbol it
wants - yours too.

[calim...@gmx.de]

Lee is honored in West Point??
Why not Rommel and Guderian?


Max

[calim...@gmx.de]

What about calling African-Americans "nigger"?
Just free speech to you???

You right-wingers are batshit crazy ....
Or maybe not. You have an agenda and try to undermine democracies by misusing their values.


Max

[*skriptis]

<http://www.newsweek.com/west-point-should-rename-its-robert-e-lee
-barracks-655260>

> Why not Rommel and Guderian?

Let me guess, they aren't Americans?

[bob]

On Fri, 25 Aug 2017 11:08:55 -0500, stephenJ <sja...@cox.net> wrote:

>On 8/25/2017 6:23 AM, calim...@gmx.de wrote:
>> On Friday, August 25, 2017 at 1:10:27 PM UTC+2, The Iceberg wrote:
>>> Why? Any nut can do it other countries? How many more years til you get over it? 1000? If you're all so fine and upstanding now, why does it matter? Everywhere these nuts can salute all they want, it just puts people off them.
>>
>> Don't forget that the Nazi party got only 33.1 % in the last free elections in Germany (1932)
>
>"Only" 33.1%?
>
>What happened to this notion of the reconstructed German who couldn't
>possibly ever let Nazism happen again?

>You don't trust yourselves so you
>have to restrict freedom of speech?

BINGO.

>Very sad. :(
>

bob

[bob]

you've made it law - because jaros said what i was about to say:
perhaps you don't trust your own instincts doing it again.

so limit freedom. hey, if you can't put the chocolate bar down
willingly, by all means lock it up in a safe and throw away the key?

>> You don't trust yourselves so you
>> have to restrict freedom of speech?
>>
>
>Giving the Nazi salute in public has nothing to do with free speech.

hilarious.

bob

[bob]

it's terrible, awful, ridiculous speech, but i'm not sure it's
illegal? what about calling country boy a redneck? any different?

>You right-wingers are batshit crazy ....Or maybe not. You have an agenda and try to undermine democracies by misusing their values.

bob

[bob]

it was wrong and a mistake to say "fine people on both sides" but it
was spot on to blame both sides for the violence.

bob

[bob]

:-)

bob

[bob]

steve they're afraid of putting a drink in front of a drunk.

bob

[calim...@gmx.de]

No, we don't trust fascists.
That's why we didn't have Trump types in the last 72 years.


Max

[bob]

and now you took down the german version of antifa's website.

that's what i've been saying, who's next?

bob

[stephenJ]

Seems that way. :(

[stephenJ]

What an appalling response. :(

[stephenJ]

Max has a very poor understanding of USA values. In fact, it's only the
Alt-Left, the very far left, that thinks that symbols like the swastika
and confederate flag should be banned from public view, the vast
majority of liberals support the view of free speech i described in the
previous post.

[calim...@gmx.de]

Why ban the swastika and the Nazi salute in the USA?

Max

[stephenJ]

bob explained it to all of us - Germans are afraid of putting a beer in
front of a drunk. Tragically sad for lovers of free speech. :(

[calim...@gmx.de]

You think the display of the swastika and the Hitler salute would risk 33.1 % of Germans to vote for the Nazi party again?
You think the display of the swastika and the Nazi salute is "free speech"??

Lol


Max

[stephenJ]

Then what are you afraid of?

> You think the display of the swastika and the Nazi salute is "free speech"??

Just about everyone in the USA does, because we understand 'free
speech'. Heck, we practically invented the concept. You Germans have a
long way to go. :(

[The Iceberg]

How is Trump a fascist or a danger? Oh no are you terrified he's going to nuke everyone again Lol

[The Iceberg]

How exactly would Trump destroy the free west (Not Germany cos you can't even buy some stupid old book there)?

[The Iceberg]

That's the whole problem with banning stuff like that and that Mein Kampf book, it's totally arbitrary what is banned cos it from whomever is in power at the time, but max and Pelle don't get that, like I said he'll carry on when they destroying the pyramids as symbols of slavery.

[soccerfan777]

Why? That is free speech, isn't it? How about calling a Jew as hook-nose? They did it in Life Of Brian. That was not banned.
http://www.montypython.net/sounds/lob/lobjew.wav

[TT]

Also, there should be more blackfaced actors today. As in Birth of a
Nation (1915) or The Jazz Singer (1927).

And, Chinese should be called a 'yellow man' as in Broken Blossoms (1919).

Free speech AND tradition. That's all for now, towelhead.

[calim...@gmx.de]

On Tuesday, August 29, 2017 at 5:17:23 PM UTC+2, The Iceberg wrote:
> How is Trump a fascist or a danger? Oh no are you terrified he's going to nuke everyone again Lol

What of all those things in which Trump differs from "establishment" politicians is NOT fascist?


Max

[calim...@gmx.de]

Afraid of insulting jews and other Nazi victims and their families.
Why is calling African-Americans "nigger" free speech, you said?

> > You think the display of the swastika and the Nazi salute is "free speech"??
>
> Just about everyone in the USA does, because we understand 'free
> speech'. Heck, we practically invented the concept. You Germans have a
> long way to go. :(
>

No, we don't want to go the Trump way. Have done it and it was no fun.


Max

[stephenJ]

>>On 8/29/2017 1:24 PM, calim...@gmx.de wrote:

>> Just about everyone in the USA does, because we understand 'free
>> speech'. Heck, we practically invented the concept. You Germans have a
>> long way to go. :(
>>
>
> No, we don't want to go the Trump way. Have done it and it was no fun.

So you admit bob was right - you don't want to put a beer in front of a
drunk.

[calim...@gmx.de]

On Tuesday, August 29, 2017 at 9:35:55 PM UTC+2, StephenJ wrote:
> >>On 8/29/2017 1:24 PM, calim...@gmx.de wrote:
>
> >> Just about everyone in the USA does, because we understand 'free
> >> speech'. Heck, we practically invented the concept. You Germans have a
> >> long way to go. :(
> >>
> >
> > No, we don't want to go the Trump way. Have done it and it was no fun.
>
> So you admit bob was right - you don't want to put a beer in front of a
> drunk.

Not wanting to go fascist way again has nothing to do with not allowing swastikas and Hitler salute.
But you seem to make that connection - admitting by that that you favouring Trump and allowing swastikas and Hitler salutes are two sides of the same coin for you.


Max

[stephenJ]

You keep contradicting yourself. You just said the reason Germany
doesn't allow real free speech - which includes allowing idiot racists
to fly symbols such as swastika flags and confederate flags - is because
you don't want to go the fascist way again, so obviously you think they
are connected.

In the USA, we realize that free speech is not only a basic human right,
but also the best way to combat evil ideologies.

[stephenJ]

On 8/20/2017 1:34 PM, bob wrote:

> On Sun, 20 Aug 2017 13:04:46 -0500, stephenJ <sja...@cox.net> wrote:
>
>> On 8/20/2017 1:00 PM, bob wrote:
>>> On Sun, 13 Aug 2017 14:03:18 -0700 (PDT), calim...@gmx.de wrote:
>>>
>>>> https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2017/08/13/an-american-tourist-gave-the-nazi-salute-in-germany-so-a-stranger-beat-him-up-police-say/?utm_term=.5ff90472119b
>>>> Throw the bum out! And give the stranger a medal!
>>>
>>> c'mon, some drunk idiot? lol.
>>>
>>> but seriously, germany doesn't seem too free. IMO better to get rid of
>>> nazi and other such scum by ignoring them, making them completely
>>> irrelevant - as they are now- not by force. because who gets to
>>> choose which scum are forcibly removed? slippery slope.
>>>
>>> bob
>>>
>>
>> Yes, I'm as anti-Nazi as they come, but I was stunned when I read that
>> Chinese tourists were arrested for making a Hitler salute in Germany.
>> Laugh at them, condemn them, do both, but everyone should have the
>> right to freely express themselves politically, no matter how odious and
>> dumb their beliefs, as long as it doesn't take the form of violence. The
>> USA is much freer, and that's the way it should be.
>>
>

> that's *one* of the differences between you and i VS max. it's become
> very apparent past 12 months. i understand the german mindset, but
> it's not the solution IMO.

Here's something interesting i found from the New Yorker. Apparently,
the Weimar Republic had "hate speech" laws and the Nazis were frequently
prosecuted. And yet we know that didn't stop them from rising to power,
so that seems to refute the modern German/Max notion that banning Nazi
speech is the key to stopping them:

"Researching my book, I looked into what actually happened in the Weimar
Republic. I found that, contrary to what most people think, Weimar
Germany did have hate-speech laws, and they were applied quite
frequently. The assertion that Nazi propaganda played a significant role
in mobilizing anti-Jewish sentiment is, of course, irrefutable. But to
claim that the Holocaust could have been prevented if only anti-Semitic
speech and Nazi propaganda had been banned has little basis in reality.
Leading Nazis such as Joseph Goebbels, Theodor Fritsch, and Julius
Streicher were all prosecuted for anti-Semitic speech. Streicher served
two prison sentences. Rather than deterring the Nazis and countering
anti-Semitism, the many court cases served as effective public-relations
machinery, affording Streicher the kind of attention he would never have
found in a climate of a free and open debate. In the years from 1923 to
1933, Der Stürmer [Streicher's newspaper] was either confiscated or
editors taken to court on no fewer than thirty-six occasions."

http://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/copenhagen-speech-violence

[*skriptis]

stephenJ <sja...@cox.net> Wrote in message:

I've already proven here that the oppression/aggressiveness
problem is within German themselves. Their collective psyche
leans towards authoritarianism. No big deal, it's the way it is,
all nations are different, but they shouldn't be taken seriously
when they start lecturing others like Merkel does.


They were most aggressive imperialist major world power in the
19/20 century, most oppressive "democracy" (as you prove now with
weimar), most vicious fascist state of all the fascist states
that ever existed, and most brutal communist dictatorship. Now
they're back at the most oppressive democracy (weimar 2).



They're not the only problem, even though in Europe, they are.
But the major internet companies and monopolies are doing it in
the USA as well with bannings all over the place.
Whether it's the cool, provocative and offensive daily stormer or
recently even that gay, dull and incredibly boring white
nationalist stormfront forum.

The way I understood it, stormfronters yearn for some white utopia
with knights and princesses, some medieval feminism, akin to game
of thrones, whereas daily stormer promotes Conan barbarism and
sharia laws for western women. Theefore daily stormer is more fun
for the average individualized and atomized young male. E.g.
Chandler types from the friends.
It's also a generation gap issue between those.


Meanwhile back to serious stpuff, all those internet companies
that block politically incorrect content under hate speech rules,
have done nothing to block, ban, or expel various pedophile, isis
beheadings, or terrorist sites. All of which is illegal. And
morally disgusting.

The daily stormer content isn't illegal even if it's disgusting.
How can anyone's site be taken down and at the same time those
people aren't persecuted by the law itself or have committed no
crime.

That's ridiculous.

>
> "Researching my book, I looked into what actually happened in the Weimar
> Republic. I found that, contrary to what most people think, Weimar
> Germany did have hate-speech laws, and they were applied quite
> frequently. The assertion that Nazi propaganda played a significant role
> in mobilizing anti-Jewish sentiment is, of course, irrefutable. But to
> claim that the Holocaust could have been prevented if only anti-Semitic
> speech and Nazi propaganda had been banned has little basis in reality.
> Leading Nazis such as Joseph Goebbels, Theodor Fritsch, and Julius
> Streicher were all prosecuted for anti-Semitic speech. Streicher served
> two prison sentences. Rather than deterring the Nazis and countering
> anti-Semitism, the many court cases served as effective public-relations
> machinery, affording Streicher the kind of attention he would never have
> found in a climate of a free and open debate. In the years from 1923 to
> 1933, Der Stürmer [Streicher's newspaper] was either confiscated or
> editors taken to court on no fewer than thirty-six occasions."
>
> http://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/copenhagen-speech-violence

If continued to be persecuted, denied its rights, if the google
employers are continuously fired for expressing their thoughts,
meaning if the societies overall become more repressive, the
daily stormer might become as influential as its spiritual
predecessor Der Stuermer.

Now who wants that?
The daily stormer of course, but they haven't banned themselves,
so the question is, who else wants it?

The answer is obvious, people like max. And we know why.



--


----Android NewsGroup Reader----
http://usenet.sinaapp.com/

[calim...@gmx.de]

On Wednesday, August 30, 2017 at 4:16:06 PM UTC+2, StephenJ wrote:
> On 8/29/2017 2:42 PM, calim...@gmx.de wrote:
> > On Tuesday, August 29, 2017 at 9:35:55 PM UTC+2, StephenJ wrote:
> >>>> On 8/29/2017 1:24 PM, calim...@gmx.de wrote:
> >>
> >>>> Just about everyone in the USA does, because we understand 'free
> >>>> speech'. Heck, we practically invented the concept. You Germans have a
> >>>> long way to go. :(
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>> No, we don't want to go the Trump way. Have done it and it was no fun.
> >>
> >> So you admit bob was right - you don't want to put a beer in front of a
> >> drunk.
> >
> >
> > Not wanting to go fascist way again has nothing to do with not allowing swastikas and Hitler salute.
> > But you seem to make that connection - admitting by that that you favouring Trump and allowing swastikas and Hitler salutes are two sides of the same coin for you.
> >
>
> You keep contradicting yourself. You just said the reason Germany
> doesn't allow real free speech - which includes allowing idiot racists
> to fly symbols such as swastika flags and confederate flags - is because

> you don't want to go the fascist way again.

Links?
Where did I say this?

> so obviously you think they
> are connected.

I don't think that.

>
> In the USA, we realize that free speech is not only a basic human right,
> but also the best way to combat evil ideologies.
>
>

Meaning that referring to "niggers" helps to combat racism?


Max

[stephenJ]

On 8/30/2017 12:32 PM, calim...@gmx.de wrote:
> On Wednesday, August 30, 2017 at 4:16:06 PM UTC+2, StephenJ wrote:
>> On 8/29/2017 2:42 PM, calim...@gmx.de wrote:
>>> On Tuesday, August 29, 2017 at 9:35:55 PM UTC+2, StephenJ wrote:
>>>>>> On 8/29/2017 1:24 PM, calim...@gmx.de wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>> Just about everyone in the USA does, because we understand 'free
>>>>>> speech'. Heck, we practically invented the concept. You Germans have a
>>>>>> long way to go. :(
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> No, we don't want to go the Trump way. Have done it and it was no fun.
>>>>
>>>> So you admit bob was right - you don't want to put a beer in front of a
>>>> drunk.
>>>
>>>
>>> Not wanting to go fascist way again has nothing to do with not allowing swastikas and Hitler salute.
>>> But you seem to make that connection - admitting by that that you favouring Trump and allowing swastikas and Hitler salutes are two sides of the same coin for you.
>>>
>>
>> You keep contradicting yourself. You just said the reason Germany
>> doesn't allow real free speech - which includes allowing idiot racists
>> to fly symbols such as swastika flags and confederate flags - is because
>> you don't want to go the fascist way again.
>
> Links?
> Where did I say this?

It's implied by what you've been saying. In the previous post, we had
this exchange:

>>>>> (ME):Just about everyone in the USA does, because we understand

>>>>'free
>>>>>> speech'. Heck, we practically invented the concept. You Germans
have a
>>>>>> long way to go. :(
>>>>>>
>>>>>

>>>>> (You): No, we don't want to go the Trump way. Have done it and it
>>>>> was no fun.

... which by my understanding of English indicates that you think
banning fascist speech is key to stopping fascists from gaining power in
Germany again. If not, what am i missing?

But here's something interesting. Seems like Germans have tried stifling
fascist speech before, and it didn't work too well:

"Researching my book, I looked into what actually happened in the Weimar
Republic. I found that, contrary to what most people think, Weimar
Germany did have hate-speech laws, and they were applied quite
frequently. The assertion that Nazi propaganda played a significant role
in mobilizing anti-Jewish sentiment is, of course, irrefutable. But to
claim that the Holocaust could have been prevented if only anti-Semitic
speech and Nazi propaganda had been banned has little basis in reality.
Leading Nazis such as Joseph Goebbels, Theodor Fritsch, and Julius
Streicher were all prosecuted for anti-Semitic speech. Streicher served
two prison sentences. Rather than deterring the Nazis and countering
anti-Semitism, the many court cases served as effective public-relations
machinery, affording Streicher the kind of attention he would never have
found in a climate of a free and open debate. In the years from 1923 to
1933, Der Stürmer [Streicher's newspaper] was either confiscated or
editors taken to court on no fewer than thirty-six occasions."

http://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/copenhagen-speech-violence

[bob]

i believe it's legal, although incredibly stupid and in very bad
taste, to insult anyone on racial grounds.

>> > You think the display of the swastika and the Nazi salute is "free speech"??
>>
>> Just about everyone in the USA does, because we understand 'free
>> speech'. Heck, we practically invented the concept. You Germans have a
>> long way to go. :(
>>
>
>No, we don't want to go the Trump way. Have done it and it was no fun.

trump never governed germans.

bob

[bob]

max, by constantly speaking of trump and hitler as 1 you really make
a fool of yourself. you're better than that, aren't you?

bob

[bob]

i'll lay it out best i can.

in the usa, we hope and feel that with free speech and other freedoms
we will by our own *free choice* eliminate or nearly eliminate nazis,
fascists, violent antifa, and the like, and keep them from any real
power and irrelevant.

in germany, they outlaw it because, well, a few drinks in front of
drunks has a very unpredictable outcome.

bob

[bob]

you know i've been saying in RST for at least 3-4 yrs that germany is
back to the 30s but without tanks - so far.

they are trying very very hard for european domination, financially,
and really they'd like to spread that much much further, make no
mistake.

merkel et al is very dangerous.

bob

[stephenJ]

Yes, that's just preposterous, but max keeps at it.

[Gracchus]

Look out, Max, it's a trick question!