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AO Women's Final Prediction ...
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stephenJ
Jan 29, 2016, 11:56:16 PM1/29/16
to
Serena will lay it all out there, she always does in slam finals. But,
it's pretty clear she's running out of gas, and fast. Her second-set
scorelines in recent matches have been far worse than her first, she's
barely limped across the finish line. And in a best of three match, a
set lead can quickly turn to even and down a break in the third.
Kerber is a good player. More importantly, she has far more energy and
zip, and nothing to lose, the pressure is off.
Kerber wins, 3-6 6-4 6-4
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it's pretty clear she's running out of gas, and fast. Her second-set
scorelines in recent matches have been far worse than her first, she's
barely limped across the finish line. And in a best of three match, a
set lead can quickly turn to even and down a break in the third.
Kerber is a good player. More importantly, she has far more energy and
zip, and nothing to lose, the pressure is off.
Kerber wins, 3-6 6-4 6-4
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This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus
OW
Jan 30, 2016, 12:41:55 AM1/30/16
to
On Friday, January 29, 2016 at 10:56:16 PM UTC-6, StephenJ wrote:
> Serena will lay it all out there, she always does in slam finals. But,
> it's pretty clear she's running out of gas, and fast. Her second-set
> scorelines in recent matches have been far worse than her first, she's
> barely limped across the finish line. And in a best of three match, a
> set lead can quickly turn to even and down a break in the third.
>
> Kerber is a good player. More importantly, she has far more energy and
> zip, and nothing to lose, the pressure is off.
>
> Kerber wins, 3-6 6-4 6-4
>
That sounds like wishful thinking to me. Serena 6-0, 6-2
> Serena will lay it all out there, she always does in slam finals. But,
> it's pretty clear she's running out of gas, and fast. Her second-set
> scorelines in recent matches have been far worse than her first, she's
> barely limped across the finish line. And in a best of three match, a
> set lead can quickly turn to even and down a break in the third.
>
> Kerber is a good player. More importantly, she has far more energy and
> zip, and nothing to lose, the pressure is off.
>
> Kerber wins, 3-6 6-4 6-4
>
ahonkan
Jan 30, 2016, 12:41:57 AM1/30/16
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On Saturday, 30 January 2016 10:26:16 UTC+5:30, StephenJ wrote:
> Serena will lay it all out there, she always does in slam finals. But,
> it's pretty clear she's running out of gas, and fast. Her second-set
> scorelines in recent matches have been far worse than her first, she's
> barely limped across the finish line. And in a best of three match, a
> set lead can quickly turn to even and down a break in the third.
You're obviously trolling/ reverse jinxing.
> Serena will lay it all out there, she always does in slam finals. But,
> it's pretty clear she's running out of gas, and fast. Her second-set
> scorelines in recent matches have been far worse than her first, she's
> barely limped across the finish line. And in a best of three match, a
> set lead can quickly turn to even and down a break in the third.
Here are Serena's scorelines:
R1: 6-4 7-5
R2: 6-1 6-2
R3: 6-1 6-1
R4: 6-2 6-1
QF: 6-4 6-1
SF: 6-0 6-4
She has never been taken to 3 sets, which means she's fresh as a daisy.
In 3 of her 6 matches, her 2nd set numbers are as good or better than the
first, so your stmt about her second set scoreline being 'much worse' is
not true at all. In 2 of remaining 3 matches, the 2nd set score is just a
single game worse than the first, which is no big deal. In the SF, she
had bageled Radwanska in the 1st and so the 2nd set was obviously going
to be worse, so no big deal again.
>
> Kerber is a good player. More importantly, she has far more energy and
> zip, and nothing to lose, the pressure is off.
Kerber is a highly inconsistent player in her first final against an
> Kerber is a good player. More importantly, she has far more energy and
> zip, and nothing to lose, the pressure is off.
all-time great player. She has played 125 games (to Serena's 99) and
spent considerably more time on the court compared to Serena. She will
be under tremendous pressure to not get embarrassed.
>
> Kerber wins, 3-6 6-4 6-4
>
Serena wins, 6-0 6-2
> Kerber wins, 3-6 6-4 6-4
>
calim...@gmx.de
Jan 30, 2016, 5:58:46 AM1/30/16
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Max
Javier González
Jan 30, 2016, 5:58:58 AM1/30/16
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And the reverse jinx turns into brilliant tennis analysis.
Surprisingly graceful of Serena in congratulating Kerber just after the last point. Not what you'd expect of her, given her reputation.
Surprisingly graceful of Serena in congratulating Kerber just after the last point. Not what you'd expect of her, given her reputation.
Whisper
Jan 30, 2016, 5:59:29 AM1/30/16
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On 30/01/2016 3:56 PM, stephenJ wrote:
> Serena will lay it all out there, she always does in slam finals. But,
> it's pretty clear she's running out of gas, and fast. Her second-set
> scorelines in recent matches have been far worse than her first, she's
> barely limped across the finish line. And in a best of three match, a
> set lead can quickly turn to even and down a break in the third.
>
> Kerber is a good player. More importantly, she has far more energy and
> zip, and nothing to lose, the pressure is off.
>
> Kerber wins, 3-6 6-4 6-4
>
Kerber won 64 36 64 so you got the set scores correct. Well done.
> Serena will lay it all out there, she always does in slam finals. But,
> it's pretty clear she's running out of gas, and fast. Her second-set
> scorelines in recent matches have been far worse than her first, she's
> barely limped across the finish line. And in a best of three match, a
> set lead can quickly turn to even and down a break in the third.
>
> Kerber is a good player. More importantly, she has far more energy and
> zip, and nothing to lose, the pressure is off.
>
> Kerber wins, 3-6 6-4 6-4
>
The Iceberg
Jan 30, 2016, 6:04:13 AM1/30/16
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Whisper
Jan 30, 2016, 6:08:32 AM1/30/16
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On 30/01/2016 9:58 PM, Javier González wrote:
> And the reverse jinx turns into brilliant tennis analysis.
>
> Surprisingly graceful of Serena in congratulating Kerber just after the last point. Not what you'd expect of her, given her reputation.
>
Yes, that was impressive.
> And the reverse jinx turns into brilliant tennis analysis.
>
> Surprisingly graceful of Serena in congratulating Kerber just after the last point. Not what you'd expect of her, given her reputation.
>
Kerber certainly deserved the win. Not easy beating Serena in an AO
final.
Garvin Yee
Jan 30, 2016, 6:13:55 AM1/30/16
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It was impressive for Kerber just to get a set off Serena, but then
two?!? Astounding!
Serena was obviously not playing her best, but still, she usually
hoists the trophy in the end, not matter how she plays.
But agreed Serena was very gracious in losing. I think she really
likes and respects Kerber, so that helps ease the pain of losing.
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stephenJ
Jan 30, 2016, 6:22:42 AM1/30/16
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out-hustled. She's old, and Keber forced her to hit the extra ball many
times, leading to a ton of unforced errors. That, plus terrible
first-serving, really hurt her.
Combining this result with last year's USO loss that from here on out,
Serena faces a "field" problem: rather than being unable to beat any one
player (like Fed can't beat Joker), her age means she is likely to lose
in the late rounds to whatever random player happens to be having a very
good tournament at that event.
21 is still her most likely career slam total.
Yama
Jan 30, 2016, 6:29:11 AM1/30/16
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30/01/2016, 06:56, stephenJ kirjoitti:
> Serena will lay it all out there, she always does in slam finals. But,
> it's pretty clear she's running out of gas, and fast. Her second-set
> scorelines in recent matches have been far worse than her first, she's
> barely limped across the finish line. And in a best of three match, a
> set lead can quickly turn to even and down a break in the third.
>
> Kerber is a good player. More importantly, she has far more energy and
> zip, and nothing to lose, the pressure is off.
>
> Kerber wins, 3-6 6-4 6-4
Whaddaya know, you were right.
> Serena will lay it all out there, she always does in slam finals. But,
> it's pretty clear she's running out of gas, and fast. Her second-set
> scorelines in recent matches have been far worse than her first, she's
> barely limped across the finish line. And in a best of three match, a
> set lead can quickly turn to even and down a break in the third.
>
> Kerber is a good player. More importantly, she has far more energy and
> zip, and nothing to lose, the pressure is off.
>
> Kerber wins, 3-6 6-4 6-4
Congrats!
Message has been deleted
Whisper
Jan 30, 2016, 6:32:46 AM1/30/16
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On 30/01/2016 10:30 PM, sushru...@gmail.com wrote:
> Not the same sequence, but correct scorelines.
> I think Serena will try to get to 23 and retire, probably end of 2016.
> If Fed also retires at the end of this year, two of the all-time greats
> will be walking into the sunset together and tennis will be the poorer.
>
You think Serena will quit at 23 when the record is 24?
> On Saturday, January 30, 2016 at 4:52:42 PM UTC+5:30, StephenJ wrote:
>
>>>> Kerber wins, 3-6 6-4 6-4
>
>
>>>> Kerber wins, 3-6 6-4 6-4
>
>> My prediction was extremely accurate. As I expected, Serena was just
>> out-hustled. She's old, and Keber forced her to hit the extra ball many
>> times, leading to a ton of unforced errors. That, plus terrible
>> first-serving, really hurt her.
>>
>> Combining this result with last year's USO loss that from here on out,
>> Serena faces a "field" problem: rather than being unable to beat any one
>> player (like Fed can't beat Joker), her age means she is likely to lose
>> in the late rounds to whatever random player happens to be having a very
>> good tournament at that event.
>>
>> 21 is still her most likely career slam total.
>
> Gotta tip my hat to your reverse-jinxing but accurate prediction!
>> out-hustled. She's old, and Keber forced her to hit the extra ball many
>> times, leading to a ton of unforced errors. That, plus terrible
>> first-serving, really hurt her.
>>
>> Combining this result with last year's USO loss that from here on out,
>> Serena faces a "field" problem: rather than being unable to beat any one
>> player (like Fed can't beat Joker), her age means she is likely to lose
>> in the late rounds to whatever random player happens to be having a very
>> good tournament at that event.
>>
>> 21 is still her most likely career slam total.
>
> Not the same sequence, but correct scorelines.
> I think Serena will try to get to 23 and retire, probably end of 2016.
> If Fed also retires at the end of this year, two of the all-time greats
> will be walking into the sunset together and tennis will be the poorer.
>
You think Serena will quit at 23 when the record is 24?
Yama
Jan 30, 2016, 6:43:16 AM1/30/16
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30/01/2016, 13:22, stephenJ kirjoitti:
> My prediction was extremely accurate. As I expected, Serena was just
> out-hustled. She's old, and Keber forced her to hit the extra ball many
> times, leading to a ton of unforced errors. That, plus terrible
> first-serving, really hurt her.
>
> Combining this result with last year's USO loss that from here on out,
> Serena faces a "field" problem: rather than being unable to beat any one
> player (like Fed can't beat Joker), her age means she is likely to lose
> in the late rounds to whatever random player happens to be having a very
> good tournament at that event.
>
> 21 is still her most likely career slam total.
Age might be a factor, yes (she certainly looked gassed in the end of
> My prediction was extremely accurate. As I expected, Serena was just
> out-hustled. She's old, and Keber forced her to hit the extra ball many
> times, leading to a ton of unforced errors. That, plus terrible
> first-serving, really hurt her.
>
> Combining this result with last year's USO loss that from here on out,
> Serena faces a "field" problem: rather than being unable to beat any one
> player (like Fed can't beat Joker), her age means she is likely to lose
> in the late rounds to whatever random player happens to be having a very
> good tournament at that event.
>
> 21 is still her most likely career slam total.
Vinci match). However I think this loss was more mental. As teenager
Serena was prone to choking, she got over it and in her peak was iron
willed. However the old habits are creeping back, she gets too pumped
and tense when there's lots of legacy on the line.
And of course Kerber has beaten Serena before, and was known to be
dangerous so IMO this wasn't such a huge shock compared to Vinci loss.
Serena probably won't win the French, however if healthy she should
still easily win Wimbledon. Matches are shorter and serve helps to stack
the odds to her favour there.
Garvin Yee
Jan 30, 2016, 6:45:51 AM1/30/16
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As recently as 2012 and 2014, she's been knocked out in early
rounds at slams, so it's not like this was a fluke. She's human after
all, and no one wins everything, thank God, or it would be an extremely
boring sport.
If she wins two slams a year for this year and the next, she'll have
the record. Given the way she's been playing, and the overall
weakness of the rest of the field, that would not be impossible for Serena.
DavidW
Jan 30, 2016, 6:51:32 AM1/30/16
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heyg...@gmail.com
Jan 30, 2016, 7:46:40 AM1/30/16
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Well she might actually win the USO this year now...she's never won the AO and the USO in the same year surprisingly.
Scott
Jan 30, 2016, 8:05:05 AM1/30/16
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That was the most amazing prediction I have ever seen here, particularly going against the womens' GOAT. Well done Jaros!!
ahonkan
Jan 30, 2016, 8:36:07 AM1/30/16
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On Saturday, 30 January 2016 16:28:58 UTC+5:30, Javier González wrote:
> And the reverse jinx turns into brilliant tennis analysis.
>
> Surprisingly graceful of Serena in congratulating Kerber just after the last point. Not what you'd expect of her, given her reputation.
Yes, though Jaros was clearly reverse-jinxing, the jinx came back to bite
> And the reverse jinx turns into brilliant tennis analysis.
>
> Surprisingly graceful of Serena in congratulating Kerber just after the last point. Not what you'd expect of her, given her reputation.
him and his prediction came true almost verbatim. Serena won the 2nd set
& not the 1st, but the scorelines were correct.
So in the unlikely event that Jaros actually meant what he wrote, I
tip my hat to him! Well done!
soccerfan777
Jan 30, 2016, 8:43:49 AM1/30/16
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Lol I had told him one day his reverse jinxing will come back and bite him in the ass
Pete Tsipras
Jan 30, 2016, 8:48:28 AM1/30/16
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it's based on.
Serena wouldn't have lost after winning the first set (as in Jaros's)
Lefty factor was big, IMO. Also, in the third, Serena did not go for
broke as in the past.
stephenJ
Jan 30, 2016, 10:20:58 AM1/30/16
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> On 1/30/2016 5:30 AM, sushru...@gmail.com wrote:
> I think Serena will try to get to 23 and retire, probably end of 2016.
There's no way Serena would retire one short of the slam record, unless
> I think Serena will try to get to 23 and retire, probably end of 2016.
she is obviously never going to win another one.
Yama
Jan 30, 2016, 10:50:56 AM1/30/16
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30/01/2016, 15:05, Scott kirjoitti:
> That was the most amazing prediction I have ever seen here,
> particularly going against the womens' GOAT. Well done Jaros!!
>
Well, of course you're bound to get it right once after predicting doom
> That was the most amazing prediction I have ever seen here,
> particularly going against the womens' GOAT. Well done Jaros!!
>
every time. It's like Peter Schiff's "brilliant" prediction in 2006 that
US economy would collapse next year. Sure, he was completely right, but
he had predicted same collapse every year, obviously he was eventually
gonna be right.
calim...@gmx.de
Jan 30, 2016, 11:09:06 AM1/30/16
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Max
stephenJ
Jan 30, 2016, 11:16:00 AM1/30/16
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On 1/30/2016 9:49 AM, Yama wrote:
> 30/01/2016, 15:05, Scott kirjoitti:
>> That was the most amazing prediction I have ever seen here,
>> particularly going against the womens' GOAT. Well done Jaros!!
>>
>
> Well, of course you're bound to get it right once after predicting doom
> every time.
I don't predict doom for Serena all the time, not by a longshot. I did
> 30/01/2016, 15:05, Scott kirjoitti:
>> That was the most amazing prediction I have ever seen here,
>> particularly going against the womens' GOAT. Well done Jaros!!
>>
>
> Well, of course you're bound to get it right once after predicting doom
> every time.
notice an important drop in her form after W last year. She gained
weight and her first serve % declined. Was evident at USO and this AO.
Gracchus
Jan 30, 2016, 11:52:32 AM1/30/16
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On Saturday, January 30, 2016 at 3:13:55 AM UTC-8, Garvin Yee wrote:
> Serena was obviously not playing her best, but still, she usually
> hoists the trophy in the end, not matter how she plays.
> But agreed Serena was very gracious in losing. I think she really
> likes and respects Kerber, so that helps ease the pain of losing.
"The runner-up added: 'Would I give my performance an A? No, but this is all I could produce.'"
> Serena was obviously not playing her best, but still, she usually
> hoists the trophy in the end, not matter how she plays.
> But agreed Serena was very gracious in losing. I think she really
> likes and respects Kerber, so that helps ease the pain of losing.
http://www.bbc.com/sport/tennis/35449003
Gracious perhaps, but not *very* gracious.
calim...@gmx.de
Jan 30, 2016, 12:11:46 PM1/30/16
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Max
Garvin Yee
Jan 30, 2016, 12:21:49 PM1/30/16
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"A" game. And when was the last time you have seen anyone go around the
net to hung the opponent on their side of the court? Very rare,
especially from Serena.
But I felt she was sincerely happy for Kerber...they've played
quite a few matches, and obviously respect and even like each other
a bit.
Watch Serena's press conference. She was very calm and relaxed.
She is maturing as a Champion, and can lose graciously, and can
even be happy for someone else if she likes them. She almost seemed
relieved that some of the expectation for her to win everything was
shattered.
Gracchus
Jan 30, 2016, 12:22:44 PM1/30/16
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Gracchus
Jan 30, 2016, 12:27:25 PM1/30/16
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On Saturday, January 30, 2016 at 9:21:49 AM UTC-8, Garvin Yee wrote:
> On 1/30/2016 9:52 AM, Gracchus wrote:
> > Gracious perhaps, but not *very* gracious.
> I'd say she was very gracious. That was definitely not Serena's
> "A" game. And when was the last time you have seen anyone go around the
> net to hung the opponent on their side of the court? Very rare,
> especially from Serena.
I assume that you mean "hug." Though she may have wanted to hang Kerber.
> On 1/30/2016 9:52 AM, Gracchus wrote:
> > Gracious perhaps, but not *very* gracious.
> I'd say she was very gracious. That was definitely not Serena's
> "A" game. And when was the last time you have seen anyone go around the
> net to hung the opponent on their side of the court? Very rare,
> especially from Serena.
> Watch Serena's press conference. She was very calm and relaxed.
> She is maturing as a Champion, and can lose graciously, and can
> even be happy for someone else if she likes them. She almost seemed
> relieved that some of the expectation for her to win everything was
> shattered.
Court_1
Jan 30, 2016, 1:00:21 PM1/30/16
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On Saturday, January 30, 2016 at 12:22:44 PM UTC-5, Gracchus wrote:
> How about just congratulating your opponent and giving her credit for good play without qualifying it? That's what I'd call very gracious. No falsehoods necessary.
You are really reaching/nitpicking here. She didn't play her A game for most of the match. Her serve was off and she made way too many errors. Federer is the same way in most of his post match press conferences. He said this after his loss to Djokovic for example:
> How about just congratulating your opponent and giving her credit for good play without qualifying it? That's what I'd call very gracious. No falsehoods necessary.
"My rhythm, my timing, all that, was a bit off in the beginning. He took advantage of that and did an unbelievable job for a long, long time tonight."
http://www.ausopen.com/en_AU/news/interviews/2016-01-28/roger_federer_280116.html
How is that really any different than what Serena said? Both said they didn't play their best and both implied that if they had things may have been different.
I don't think there is anything wrong with what either said.
Serena lost and another WTA player actually stepped up and had some balls for once. Be happy. :)
Garvin Yee
Jan 30, 2016, 1:00:25 PM1/30/16
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On 1/30/2016 10:27 AM, Gracchus wrote:
> On Saturday, January 30, 2016 at 9:21:49 AM UTC-8, Garvin Yee wrote:
>> On 1/30/2016 9:52 AM, Gracchus wrote:
>
>>> Gracious perhaps, but not *very* gracious.
>
>> I'd say she was very gracious. That was definitely not Serena's
>> "A" game. And when was the last time you have seen anyone go around the
>> net to hung the opponent on their side of the court? Very rare,
>> especially from Serena.
>
> I assume that you mean "hug." Though she may have wanted to hang Kerber.
>
Obviously I meant "hug". I don't think she wanted to hang Kerber
> On Saturday, January 30, 2016 at 9:21:49 AM UTC-8, Garvin Yee wrote:
>> On 1/30/2016 9:52 AM, Gracchus wrote:
>
>>> Gracious perhaps, but not *very* gracious.
>
>> I'd say she was very gracious. That was definitely not Serena's
>> "A" game. And when was the last time you have seen anyone go around the
>> net to hung the opponent on their side of the court? Very rare,
>> especially from Serena.
>
> I assume that you mean "hug." Though she may have wanted to hang Kerber.
>
at all. Obviously she's not going to give her the trophy, but I think
she was genuinely happy for her.
>> Watch Serena's press conference. She was very calm and relaxed.
>> She is maturing as a Champion, and can lose graciously, and can
>> even be happy for someone else if she likes them. She almost seemed
>> relieved that some of the expectation for her to win everything was
>> shattered.
>
> Well if she's maturing as a champion, odd that she waited nearly 20 years to do it.
>
year, so it clearly depends on who beats her. And it's well known how
much Serena hates to lose. But that's partly what drives her to win so
much.
I think she was very gracious in defeat this time.
Garvin Yee
Jan 30, 2016, 1:01:34 PM1/30/16
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Gracchus
Jan 30, 2016, 1:31:17 PM1/30/16
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On Saturday, January 30, 2016 at 10:00:21 AM UTC-8, Court_1 wrote:
> On Saturday, January 30, 2016 at 12:22:44 PM UTC-5, Gracchus wrote:
> > How about just congratulating your opponent and giving her credit for good play without qualifying it? That's what I'd call very gracious. No falsehoods necessary.
> You are really reaching/nitpicking here. She didn't play her A game for most of the match. Her serve was off and she made way too many errors. Federer is the same way in most of his post match press conferences. He said this after his loss to Djokovic for example:
> "My rhythm, my timing, all that, was a bit off in the beginning. He took advantage of that and did an unbelievable job for a long, long time tonight."
> On Saturday, January 30, 2016 at 12:22:44 PM UTC-5, Gracchus wrote:
> > How about just congratulating your opponent and giving her credit for good play without qualifying it? That's what I'd call very gracious. No falsehoods necessary.
> You are really reaching/nitpicking here. She didn't play her A game for most of the match. Her serve was off and she made way too many errors. Federer is the same way in most of his post match press conferences. He said this after his loss to Djokovic for example:
> "My rhythm, my timing, all that, was a bit off in the beginning. He took advantage of that and did an unbelievable job for a long, long time tonight."
> How is that really any different than what Serena said? Both said they didn't play their best and both implied that if they had things may have been different.
> I don't think there is anything wrong with what either said.
Serena's comments serve to remind the world that even though she was outplayed on this occasion, she's still the better player in absolute terms. But since everyone knows this already, there's no point in saying it except for ego. I'm not quoting this to say that she was bashing Kerber, just to illustrate that IMO she was less than "very gracious."
> I don't think there is anything wrong with what either said.
And yes, Federer does it sometimes too for the same reason. What's your point?
> Serena lost and another WTA player actually stepped up and had some balls for once. Be happy. :)
stephenJ
Jan 30, 2016, 2:33:13 PM1/30/16
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"A" level tennis for her? Should she have lied and said it was?
heyg...@gmail.com
Jan 30, 2016, 2:37:29 PM1/30/16
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Garvin Yee
Jan 30, 2016, 2:43:21 PM1/30/16
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self is what drives and propels a champion to do what he or she does,
which is winning tournaments.
Of course, this often borders on arrogance, or even is blatantly
such, but it's part and parcel of the world of sports....you can't avoid
it.
Serena was graceful in defeat this time....just watch her press
conference....very patient and relaxed.....
Gracchus
Jan 30, 2016, 3:19:18 PM1/30/16
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On Saturday, January 30, 2016 at 11:33:13 AM UTC-8, StephenJ wrote:
> On 1/30/2016 10:52 AM, Gracchus wrote:
> > Gracious perhaps, but not *very* gracious.
> In the crucial third set, she landed 40% of her first serves. Is that
> "A" level tennis for her? Should she have lied and said it was?
She wouldn't need to lie if she never chose to say it at all.
> On 1/30/2016 10:52 AM, Gracchus wrote:
> > Gracious perhaps, but not *very* gracious.
> In the crucial third set, she landed 40% of her first serves. Is that
> "A" level tennis for her? Should she have lied and said it was?
heyg...@gmail.com
Jan 30, 2016, 3:35:15 PM1/30/16
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Gracchus
Jan 30, 2016, 3:36:21 PM1/30/16
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On Saturday, January 30, 2016 at 11:37:29 AM UTC-8, heyg...@gmail.com wrote:
> Well you're lucky in that Serena will never communicate anything other than thinking she's the absolute best at her best, so you'll always have something to complain about. ;-) Most agree with her...but shame on her for thinking it and having the gall to say it. ;-) The horrors!
At least Serena didn't raise the issue of their respective Q-Scores. In that way she showed great restraint.
> Well you're lucky in that Serena will never communicate anything other than thinking she's the absolute best at her best, so you'll always have something to complain about. ;-) Most agree with her...but shame on her for thinking it and having the gall to say it. ;-) The horrors!
Gracchus
Jan 30, 2016, 3:47:29 PM1/30/16
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On Saturday, January 30, 2016 at 11:43:21 AM UTC-8, Garvin Yee wrote:
> Yeah, people cannot accept that supreme confidence and belief in
> self is what drives and propels a champion to do what he or she does,
> which is winning tournaments.
> Of course, this often borders on arrogance, or even is blatantly
> such, but it's part and parcel of the world of sports....you can't avoid
> it.
Who can't accept it? I agree with everything you said above. But graciousness involves tact--regardless of how you motivate yourself or regard yourself internally. Maybe Serena genuinely believed that Henin beat her with "lucky shots," or "only had to show up" or won because Serena was only "at 40 percent," or countless similar remarks over the years. But choosing to say those things is not being gracious in defeat, whether malice is intended or not. Does the distinction register with you?
> Yeah, people cannot accept that supreme confidence and belief in
> self is what drives and propels a champion to do what he or she does,
> which is winning tournaments.
> Of course, this often borders on arrogance, or even is blatantly
> such, but it's part and parcel of the world of sports....you can't avoid
> it.
heyg...@gmail.com
Jan 30, 2016, 3:51:33 PM1/30/16
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heyg...@gmail.com
Jan 30, 2016, 4:15:24 PM1/30/16
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Darkfalz
Jan 30, 2016, 4:30:51 PM1/30/16
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On Sunday, January 31, 2016 at 8:15:24 AM UTC+11, heyg...@gmail.com wrote:
> I once saw a list of statements Graf said about other players and matches compiled from her post match press conferences. It had statements that would make Serena blush. ;-) But the pre-internet faux pas go forgotten. Imagine if some player had tweeted a picture of the hole Graf created in the locker room when she trashed it after losing a match in 1990. That might be what she'd be known for now...
How many linespeople did Graf threaten to kill?
> I once saw a list of statements Graf said about other players and matches compiled from her post match press conferences. It had statements that would make Serena blush. ;-) But the pre-internet faux pas go forgotten. Imagine if some player had tweeted a picture of the hole Graf created in the locker room when she trashed it after losing a match in 1990. That might be what she'd be known for now...
heyg...@gmail.com
Jan 30, 2016, 4:39:46 PM1/30/16
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Gracchus
Jan 30, 2016, 5:02:45 PM1/30/16
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On Saturday, January 30, 2016 at 1:39:46 PM UTC-8, heyg...@gmail.com wrote:
> Serena can't help it if she's the best at everything. ;-)
You and Court 1 should have a contest--winks vs. eye-rolls.
> Serena can't help it if she's the best at everything. ;-)
heyg...@gmail.com
Jan 30, 2016, 5:43:19 PM1/30/16
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Am I winning?
Yama
Jan 30, 2016, 7:32:22 PM1/30/16
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30/01/2016, 21:33, stephenJ kirjoitti:
> On 1/30/2016 10:52 AM, Gracchus wrote:
>> "The runner-up added: 'Would I give my performance an A? No, but this
>> is all I could produce.'"
>>
>> http://www.bbc.com/sport/tennis/35449003
>>
>> Gracious perhaps, but not *very* gracious.
>
> In the crucial third set, she landed 40% of her first serves. Is that
> "A" level tennis for her? Should she have lied and said it was?
Yeah, being ungracious ain't great, but false grace is worse. That
> On 1/30/2016 10:52 AM, Gracchus wrote:
>> "The runner-up added: 'Would I give my performance an A? No, but this
>> is all I could produce.'"
>>
>> http://www.bbc.com/sport/tennis/35449003
>>
>> Gracious perhaps, but not *very* gracious.
>
> In the crucial third set, she landed 40% of her first serves. Is that
> "A" level tennis for her? Should she have lied and said it was?
didn't rate amongst her best matches, it's fair to call it like it is.
Gracchus
Jan 30, 2016, 8:01:38 PM1/30/16
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Ted Schuerzinger
Jan 30, 2016, 8:42:23 PM1/30/16
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On Sat, 30 Jan 2016 12:35:12 -0800 (PST), heyg...@gmail.com wrote:
> Is it demonstrably worse than Serena's 2009 incident. Yes.
Serena wasn't defaulted from the doubles. Jeff Tarango was.
> Is it demonstrably worse than Serena's 2009 incident. Yes.
--
Ted S.
fedya at hughes dot net
Now blogging at http://justacineast.blogspot.com
Ted Schuerzinger
Jan 30, 2016, 8:42:26 PM1/30/16
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On Sat, 30 Jan 2016 12:47:27 -0800 (PST), Gracchus wrote:
> Maybe Serena genuinely believed that Henin beat her with "lucky
> shots," or "only had to show up" or won because Serena was only "at
> 40 percent," or countless similar remarks over the years.
If I beat somebody who said he was only playing at 40%, I'd say that I
> Maybe Serena genuinely believed that Henin beat her with "lucky
> shots," or "only had to show up" or won because Serena was only "at
> 40 percent," or countless similar remarks over the years.
felt awful out on court and was only playing at 30%.
bob
Jan 30, 2016, 8:47:12 PM1/30/16
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On Sat, 30 Jan 2016 05:22:38 -0600, stephenJ <sja...@cox.net> wrote:
>On 1/30/2016 4:57 AM, Whisper wrote:
>> On 30/01/2016 3:56 PM, stephenJ wrote:
>>> Serena will lay it all out there, she always does in slam finals. But,
>>> it's pretty clear she's running out of gas, and fast. Her second-set
>>> scorelines in recent matches have been far worse than her first, she's
>>> barely limped across the finish line. And in a best of three match, a
>>> set lead can quickly turn to even and down a break in the third.
>>>
>>> Kerber is a good player. More importantly, she has far more energy and
>>> zip, and nothing to lose, the pressure is off.
>>>
>>> Kerber wins, 3-6 6-4 6-4
>>>
>>
>> Kerber won 64 36 64 so you got the set scores correct. Well done.
>
>My prediction was extremely accurate. As I expected, Serena was just
>out-hustled. She's old, and Keber forced her to hit the extra ball many
>times, leading to a ton of unforced errors. That, plus terrible
>first-serving, really hurt her.
IMO serena is choking trying so hard to get to 22, then 23, slams.
>Combining this result with last year's USO loss that from here on out,
>Serena faces a "field" problem: rather than being unable to beat any one
>player (like Fed can't beat Joker), her age means she is likely to lose
>in the late rounds to whatever random player happens to be having a very
>good tournament at that event.
>
>21 is still her most likely career slam total.
22 or 23 IMO.
bob
>On 1/30/2016 4:57 AM, Whisper wrote:
>> On 30/01/2016 3:56 PM, stephenJ wrote:
>>> Serena will lay it all out there, she always does in slam finals. But,
>>> it's pretty clear she's running out of gas, and fast. Her second-set
>>> scorelines in recent matches have been far worse than her first, she's
>>> barely limped across the finish line. And in a best of three match, a
>>> set lead can quickly turn to even and down a break in the third.
>>>
>>> Kerber is a good player. More importantly, she has far more energy and
>>> zip, and nothing to lose, the pressure is off.
>>>
>>> Kerber wins, 3-6 6-4 6-4
>>>
>>
>> Kerber won 64 36 64 so you got the set scores correct. Well done.
>
>My prediction was extremely accurate. As I expected, Serena was just
>out-hustled. She's old, and Keber forced her to hit the extra ball many
>times, leading to a ton of unforced errors. That, plus terrible
>first-serving, really hurt her.
IMO serena is choking trying so hard to get to 22, then 23, slams.
>Combining this result with last year's USO loss that from here on out,
>Serena faces a "field" problem: rather than being unable to beat any one
>player (like Fed can't beat Joker), her age means she is likely to lose
>in the late rounds to whatever random player happens to be having a very
>good tournament at that event.
>
>21 is still her most likely career slam total.
22 or 23 IMO.
bob
bob
Jan 30, 2016, 8:48:09 PM1/30/16
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On Sat, 30 Jan 2016 22:32:30 +1100, Whisper <beav...@ozemail.com.au>
wrote:
>On 30/01/2016 10:30 PM, sushru...@gmail.com wrote:
>> Not the same sequence, but correct scorelines.
>> I think Serena will try to get to 23 and retire, probably end of 2016.
>> If Fed also retires at the end of this year, two of the all-time greats
>> will be walking into the sunset together and tennis will be the poorer.
>>
>
>
>You think Serena will quit at 23 when the record is 24?
i don't think she'll want to, but i think she'll struggle far more
than we all thought 5 months ago to reach that 23, and settle with it.
bob
wrote:
>On 30/01/2016 10:30 PM, sushru...@gmail.com wrote:
>> On Saturday, January 30, 2016 at 4:52:42 PM UTC+5:30, StephenJ wrote:
>>
>>>>> Kerber wins, 3-6 6-4 6-4
>>
>>
>>>>> Kerber wins, 3-6 6-4 6-4
>>
>>> My prediction was extremely accurate. As I expected, Serena was just
>>> out-hustled. She's old, and Keber forced her to hit the extra ball many
>>> times, leading to a ton of unforced errors. That, plus terrible
>>> first-serving, really hurt her.
>>>
>>> out-hustled. She's old, and Keber forced her to hit the extra ball many
>>> times, leading to a ton of unforced errors. That, plus terrible
>>> first-serving, really hurt her.
>>>
>>> Combining this result with last year's USO loss that from here on out,
>>> Serena faces a "field" problem: rather than being unable to beat any one
>>> player (like Fed can't beat Joker), her age means she is likely to lose
>>> in the late rounds to whatever random player happens to be having a very
>>> good tournament at that event.
>>>
>>> 21 is still her most likely career slam total.
>>
>> Gotta tip my hat to your reverse-jinxing but accurate prediction!
>>> Serena faces a "field" problem: rather than being unable to beat any one
>>> player (like Fed can't beat Joker), her age means she is likely to lose
>>> in the late rounds to whatever random player happens to be having a very
>>> good tournament at that event.
>>>
>>> 21 is still her most likely career slam total.
>>
>> Not the same sequence, but correct scorelines.
>> I think Serena will try to get to 23 and retire, probably end of 2016.
>> If Fed also retires at the end of this year, two of the all-time greats
>> will be walking into the sunset together and tennis will be the poorer.
>>
>
>
>You think Serena will quit at 23 when the record is 24?
i don't think she'll want to, but i think she'll struggle far more
than we all thought 5 months ago to reach that 23, and settle with it.
bob
bob
Jan 30, 2016, 8:49:55 PM1/30/16
to
into it. but no matter, she took the loss well and IMO she's just
thinking how she can get to 23 in the next 8 months.
bob
bob
Jan 30, 2016, 8:51:09 PM1/30/16
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On Sat, 30 Jan 2016 10:31:15 -0800 (PST), Gracchus
<grac...@gmail.com> wrote:
>On Saturday, January 30, 2016 at 10:00:21 AM UTC-8, Court_1 wrote:
>> On Saturday, January 30, 2016 at 12:22:44 PM UTC-5, Gracchus wrote:
>
>> > How about just congratulating your opponent and giving her credit for good play without qualifying it? That's what I'd call very gracious. No falsehoods necessary.
>
>> You are really reaching/nitpicking here. She didn't play her A game for most of the match. Her serve was off and she made way too many errors. Federer is the same way in most of his post match press conferences. He said this after his loss to Djokovic for example:
>
>> "My rhythm, my timing, all that, was a bit off in the beginning. He took advantage of that and did an unbelievable job for a long, long time tonight."
>
>> How is that really any different than what Serena said? Both said they didn't play their best and both implied that if they had things may have been different.
>
>> I don't think there is anything wrong with what either said.
>
>Serena's comments serve to remind the world that even though she was outplayed on this occasion, she's still the better player in absolute terms. But since everyone knows this already, there's no point in saying it except for ego. I'm not quoting this to say that she was bashing Kerber, just to illustrate that IMO she was less than "very gracious."
>
>And yes, Federer does it sometimes too for the same reason. What's your point?
roger proudly said just before AO, "i can beat anyone on tour." he
<grac...@gmail.com> wrote:
>On Saturday, January 30, 2016 at 10:00:21 AM UTC-8, Court_1 wrote:
>> On Saturday, January 30, 2016 at 12:22:44 PM UTC-5, Gracchus wrote:
>
>> > How about just congratulating your opponent and giving her credit for good play without qualifying it? That's what I'd call very gracious. No falsehoods necessary.
>
>> You are really reaching/nitpicking here. She didn't play her A game for most of the match. Her serve was off and she made way too many errors. Federer is the same way in most of his post match press conferences. He said this after his loss to Djokovic for example:
>
>> "My rhythm, my timing, all that, was a bit off in the beginning. He took advantage of that and did an unbelievable job for a long, long time tonight."
>
>> How is that really any different than what Serena said? Both said they didn't play their best and both implied that if they had things may have been different.
>
>> I don't think there is anything wrong with what either said.
>
>Serena's comments serve to remind the world that even though she was outplayed on this occasion, she's still the better player in absolute terms. But since everyone knows this already, there's no point in saying it except for ego. I'm not quoting this to say that she was bashing Kerber, just to illustrate that IMO she was less than "very gracious."
>
>And yes, Federer does it sometimes too for the same reason. What's your point?
forgot about novak. novak's too tough for the field right now IMO even
though he has the odd bad (simon type) nonmotivated match.
>
>> Serena lost and another WTA player actually stepped up and had some balls for once. Be happy. :)
>
>I am happy about that. I'll be even happier if Djoke crushes Murray like a little Scottish bug. :)
bob
Jan 30, 2016, 9:07:30 PM1/30/16
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On Sat, 30 Jan 2016 08:09:04 -0800 (PST), calim...@gmx.de wrote:
>On Saturday, January 30, 2016 at 4:50:56 PM UTC+1, Yama wrote:
>> 30/01/2016, 15:05, Scott kirjoitti:
>> > That was the most amazing prediction I have ever seen here,
>> > particularly going against the womens' GOAT. Well done Jaros!!
>> >
>>
>> Well, of course you're bound to get it right once after predicting doom
>> every time. It's like Peter Schiff's "brilliant" prediction in 2006 that
>> US economy would collapse next year. Sure, he was completely right, but
>> he had predicted same collapse every year, obviously he was eventually
>> gonna be right.
>
>Er, the US economy didn't collapse in 2007.
took a nice dip in 2008.
bob
>On Saturday, January 30, 2016 at 4:50:56 PM UTC+1, Yama wrote:
>> 30/01/2016, 15:05, Scott kirjoitti:
>> > That was the most amazing prediction I have ever seen here,
>> > particularly going against the womens' GOAT. Well done Jaros!!
>> >
>>
>> Well, of course you're bound to get it right once after predicting doom
>> every time. It's like Peter Schiff's "brilliant" prediction in 2006 that
>> US economy would collapse next year. Sure, he was completely right, but
>> he had predicted same collapse every year, obviously he was eventually
>> gonna be right.
>
>Er, the US economy didn't collapse in 2007.
took a nice dip in 2008.
bob
heyg...@gmail.com
Jan 30, 2016, 10:49:46 PM1/30/16
to
Irrelevant. Jordan physically bumped a ref and nobody cares. Physical contact is always worse than some idle verbal threat. Serena's 2009 USO incident wouldn't make the news in baseball, football or basketball where players and coaches routinely yell and curse at officials. People in those sports see it for what it is--an outburst stemming from passion and competitiveness in the face of questionable calls.
Darkfalz
Jan 31, 2016, 12:07:17 AM1/31/16
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heyg...@gmail.com
Jan 31, 2016, 1:33:42 AM1/31/16
to
I love that Serena agreeing with RST's pre-match assessment (that she would win in straights if she played well) is somehow a bad thing. We're allowed to say it but she herself is not. Silly.
Court_1
Jan 31, 2016, 1:34:15 AM1/31/16
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On Saturday, January 30, 2016 at 1:31:17 PM UTC-5, Gracchus wrote:
> And yes, Federer does it sometimes too for the same reason. What's your point?
I believe I made my point and you know exactly what it was. When it comes to post match press conferences, Serena is no different than Federer and many other champions when it comes to trying to say if she played better the match would have been on her racket. Most of these champions are narcissists.
ahonkan
Jan 31, 2016, 4:05:26 AM1/31/16
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On Saturday, 30 January 2016 22:51:49 UTC+5:30, Garvin Yee wrote:
>
> I'd say she was very gracious. That was definitely not Serena's
> "A" game. And when was the last time you have seen anyone go around the
> net to hung the opponent on their side of the court? Very rare,
> especially from Serena.
>
> But I felt she was sincerely happy for Kerber...they've played
> quite a few matches, and obviously respect and even like each other
> a bit.
>
> Watch Serena's press conference. She was very calm and relaxed.
> She is maturing as a Champion, and can lose graciously, and can
> even be happy for someone else if she likes them. She almost seemed
> relieved that some of the expectation for her to win everything was
> shattered.
I have been one of the biggest critics of Serena's unsporting ways.
But I have been pleasantly surprised by Serena's very visible change
in behaviour last year. She is gracious, humourous and generally
happy with her achievements. If she was less than gracious after
the heartbraking loss to Vinci at USO, it was quite understandable
given the gravity of the occasion.
I would give full marks to her sportsmanship in her loss to Kerber.
>
> I'd say she was very gracious. That was definitely not Serena's
> "A" game. And when was the last time you have seen anyone go around the
> net to hung the opponent on their side of the court? Very rare,
> especially from Serena.
>
> But I felt she was sincerely happy for Kerber...they've played
> quite a few matches, and obviously respect and even like each other
> a bit.
>
> Watch Serena's press conference. She was very calm and relaxed.
> She is maturing as a Champion, and can lose graciously, and can
> even be happy for someone else if she likes them. She almost seemed
> relieved that some of the expectation for her to win everything was
> shattered.
I have been one of the biggest critics of Serena's unsporting ways.
But I have been pleasantly surprised by Serena's very visible change
in behaviour last year. She is gracious, humourous and generally
happy with her achievements. If she was less than gracious after
the heartbraking loss to Vinci at USO, it was quite understandable
given the gravity of the occasion.
I would give full marks to her sportsmanship in her loss to Kerber.
Whisper
Jan 31, 2016, 4:13:05 AM1/31/16
to
making finals etc I'd imagine she'd just keep going playing slams & a
limited schedule. Unless she decides she wants to settle down & have
kids etc
Whisper
Jan 31, 2016, 4:29:00 AM1/31/16
to
too much on her shots, which a lot of pretenders do & shoot themselves
out of the match. She played the ball & kept positive the whole time.
Her team did a great job getting her into great physical shape &
mentally very ready for the match.
Serena did not play poorly, though there were nerves as you'd expect in
most slam finals. Overall Kerber simply played a better match - prob
55/45 in her favor - & was a deserved champion.
A very competitive & interesting match, with both players really wanting
to win, & very good sportsmanship all round - 9.5/10.
Gracchus
Jan 31, 2016, 4:32:19 AM1/31/16
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On Sunday, January 31, 2016 at 1:29:00 AM UTC-8, Whisper wrote:
> A very competitive & interesting match, with both players really wanting
> to win, & very good sportsmanship all round - 9.5/10.
Oh, so now you're giving matches numerical ratings like some of RST's crack movie critics? Don't be an idiot.
> A very competitive & interesting match, with both players really wanting
> to win, & very good sportsmanship all round - 9.5/10.
Whisper
Jan 31, 2016, 4:35:42 AM1/31/16
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also rated last yr's Serena d Shara final highly - 9/10.
Darkfalz
Jan 31, 2016, 4:42:16 AM1/31/16
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On Sunday, January 31, 2016 at 8:05:26 PM UTC+11, ahonkan wrote:
> I have been one of the biggest critics of Serena's unsporting ways.
> But I have been pleasantly surprised by Serena's very visible change
> in behaviour last year. She is gracious, humourous and generally
> happy with her achievements. If she was less than gracious after
> the heartbraking loss to Vinci at USO, it was quite understandable
> given the gravity of the occasion.
>
> I would give full marks to her sportsmanship in her loss to Kerber.
You would call crossing the net rather than waiting patiently and interrupting someone's post slam win emotional moment graceful?
> I have been one of the biggest critics of Serena's unsporting ways.
> But I have been pleasantly surprised by Serena's very visible change
> in behaviour last year. She is gracious, humourous and generally
> happy with her achievements. If she was less than gracious after
> the heartbraking loss to Vinci at USO, it was quite understandable
> given the gravity of the occasion.
>
> I would give full marks to her sportsmanship in her loss to Kerber.
ahonkan
Jan 31, 2016, 8:33:38 AM1/31/16
to
On Sunday, 31 January 2016 15:12:16 UTC+5:30, Darkfalz wrote:
> > I would give full marks to her sportsmanship in her loss to Kerber.
>
> You would call crossing the net rather than waiting patiently and interrupting someone's post slam win emotional moment graceful?
Well, Kerber loved it and mentioned that she liked Serena's gesture. Serena
> > I would give full marks to her sportsmanship in her loss to Kerber.
>
> You would call crossing the net rather than waiting patiently and interrupting someone's post slam win emotional moment graceful?
seemed genuinely happy for her. If one is determined to find fault with
everything Serena does, one will.
Ted Schuerzinger
Jan 31, 2016, 8:42:41 AM1/31/16
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On Sat, 30 Jan 2016 19:49:44 -0800 (PST), heyg...@gmail.com wrote:
> Serena's 2009 USO incident wouldn't make the news in baseball,
> football or basketball where players and coaches routinely yell and
> curse at officials.
And they routinely get thrown out of games, especially in baseball.
> Serena's 2009 USO incident wouldn't make the news in baseball,
> football or basketball where players and coaches routinely yell and
> curse at officials.
> an outburst stemming from passion and competitiveness in the face of
> questionable calls.
Rodjk #613
Jan 31, 2016, 8:58:06 AM1/31/16
to
On Saturday, January 30, 2016 at 2:35:15 PM UTC-6, heyg...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Saturday, January 30, 2016 at 2:43:21 PM UTC-5, Garvin Yee wrote:
> > On 1/30/2016 12:37 PM, heyg...@gmail.com wrote:
> > >
> >
> > Yeah, people cannot accept that supreme confidence and belief in
> > self is what drives and propels a champion to do what he or she does,
> > which is winning tournaments.
> >
> > Of course, this often borders on arrogance, or even is blatantly
> > such, but it's part and parcel of the world of sports....you can't avoid
> > it.
> >
> > Serena was graceful in defeat this time....just watch her press
> > conference....very patient and relaxed.....
> >
> > --
> > https://www.flickr.com/photos/34735015@N03/sets/72157623566520134/
> >
> > http://fineartamerica.com/art/all/garvin+yee/all
> >
> > https://www.facebook.com/garvin.yee.37
>
> Much of the flack about Serena anyway is derived from tennis' upper crust, country club history and focus on etiquette. A discussion threat on "graciousness" is proof of that. ;-) The things Serena is hated on for would be blip in any other sport. For example, here's Michael Jordan getting ejected from a game for yelling and physically bumping a ref at a critical part of the game: https://youtu.be/vNt5jCwA9bs?t=40 Does anyone ever mention this when talking about him? No. Is it demonstrably worse than Serena's 2009 incident. Yes. In every other sport players can claim they're the greatest, show intense emotion, talk smack about opponents, etc, and nobody bats an eye. It's only in the context of the polite, Ms. Manner's nature of tennis that it's an issue. I get that many people like that feature of tennis, but there are many who like Serena's more passionate, driven sports approach.
Did Jordan physically threaten the ref? We really don't know from the clip, but we know that Serena did. Jordan did not grab or do much of anything but argue and seemingly accidentally touch the ref and got a technical foul. He was not ejected for that, he was rejected for having two technical fouls.
What Serena did was worse, there is no question about it.
Rodjk #613
> On Saturday, January 30, 2016 at 2:43:21 PM UTC-5, Garvin Yee wrote:
> > On 1/30/2016 12:37 PM, heyg...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > On Saturday, January 30, 2016 at 1:31:17 PM UTC-5, Gracchus wrote:
> > >> On Saturday, January 30, 2016 at 10:00:21 AM UTC-8, Court_1 wrote:
> > >>> On Saturday, January 30, 2016 at 12:22:44 PM UTC-5, Gracchus wrote:
> > >>
> > >>>> How about just congratulating your opponent and giving her credit for good play without qualifying it? That's what I'd call very gracious. No falsehoods necessary.
> > >>
> > >>> You are really reaching/nitpicking here. She didn't play her A game for most of the match. Her serve was off and she made way too many errors. Federer is the same way in most of his post match press conferences. He said this after his loss to Djokovic for example:
> > >>
> > >>> "My rhythm, my timing, all that, was a bit off in the beginning. He took advantage of that and did an unbelievable job for a long, long time tonight."
> > >>
> > >>> How is that really any different than what Serena said? Both said they didn't play their best and both implied that if they had things may have been different.
> > >>
> > >>> I don't think there is anything wrong with what either said.
> > >>
> > >> Serena's comments serve to remind the world that even though she was outplayed on this occasion, she's still the better player in absolute terms. But since everyone knows this already, there's no point in saying it except for ego. I'm not quoting this to say that she was bashing Kerber, just to illustrate that IMO she was less than "very gracious."
> > >>
> > >> On Saturday, January 30, 2016 at 10:00:21 AM UTC-8, Court_1 wrote:
> > >>> On Saturday, January 30, 2016 at 12:22:44 PM UTC-5, Gracchus wrote:
> > >>
> > >>>> How about just congratulating your opponent and giving her credit for good play without qualifying it? That's what I'd call very gracious. No falsehoods necessary.
> > >>
> > >>> You are really reaching/nitpicking here. She didn't play her A game for most of the match. Her serve was off and she made way too many errors. Federer is the same way in most of his post match press conferences. He said this after his loss to Djokovic for example:
> > >>
> > >>> "My rhythm, my timing, all that, was a bit off in the beginning. He took advantage of that and did an unbelievable job for a long, long time tonight."
> > >>
> > >>> How is that really any different than what Serena said? Both said they didn't play their best and both implied that if they had things may have been different.
> > >>
> > >>> I don't think there is anything wrong with what either said.
> > >>
> > >> Serena's comments serve to remind the world that even though she was outplayed on this occasion, she's still the better player in absolute terms. But since everyone knows this already, there's no point in saying it except for ego. I'm not quoting this to say that she was bashing Kerber, just to illustrate that IMO she was less than "very gracious."
> > >>
> > >> And yes, Federer does it sometimes too for the same reason. What's your point?
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>> Serena lost and another WTA player actually stepped up and had some balls for once. Be happy. :)
> > >>
> > >> I am happy about that. I'll be even happier if Djoke crushes Murray like a little Scottish bug. :)
> > >
> > > Well you're lucky in that Serena will never communicate anything other than thinking she's the absolute best at her best, so you'll always have something to complain about. ;-) Most agree with her...but shame on her for thinking it and having the gall to say it. ;-) The horrors!
> > >>
> > >> I am happy about that. I'll be even happier if Djoke crushes Murray like a little Scottish bug. :)
> > >
> > >
> >
> > Yeah, people cannot accept that supreme confidence and belief in
> > self is what drives and propels a champion to do what he or she does,
> > which is winning tournaments.
> >
> > Of course, this often borders on arrogance, or even is blatantly
> > such, but it's part and parcel of the world of sports....you can't avoid
> > it.
> >
> > Serena was graceful in defeat this time....just watch her press
> > conference....very patient and relaxed.....
> >
> > --
> > https://www.flickr.com/photos/34735015@N03/sets/72157623566520134/
> >
> > http://fineartamerica.com/art/all/garvin+yee/all
> >
> > https://www.facebook.com/garvin.yee.37
>
> Much of the flack about Serena anyway is derived from tennis' upper crust, country club history and focus on etiquette. A discussion threat on "graciousness" is proof of that. ;-) The things Serena is hated on for would be blip in any other sport. For example, here's Michael Jordan getting ejected from a game for yelling and physically bumping a ref at a critical part of the game: https://youtu.be/vNt5jCwA9bs?t=40 Does anyone ever mention this when talking about him? No. Is it demonstrably worse than Serena's 2009 incident. Yes. In every other sport players can claim they're the greatest, show intense emotion, talk smack about opponents, etc, and nobody bats an eye. It's only in the context of the polite, Ms. Manner's nature of tennis that it's an issue. I get that many people like that feature of tennis, but there are many who like Serena's more passionate, driven sports approach.
Did Jordan physically threaten the ref? We really don't know from the clip, but we know that Serena did. Jordan did not grab or do much of anything but argue and seemingly accidentally touch the ref and got a technical foul. He was not ejected for that, he was rejected for having two technical fouls.
What Serena did was worse, there is no question about it.
Rodjk #613
stephenJ
Jan 31, 2016, 9:53:40 AM1/31/16
to
On 1/30/2016 2:19 PM, Gracchus wrote:
You make it sound like SW went on and on about how bad she played and
gave AK no credit at all. Is *that* accurate?
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> On Saturday, January 30, 2016 at 11:33:13 AM UTC-8, StephenJ wrote:
>> On 1/30/2016 10:52 AM, Gracchus wrote:
>
>>> Gracious perhaps, but not *very* gracious.
>
>> In the crucial third set, she landed 40% of her first serves. Is that
>> "A" level tennis for her? Should she have lied and said it was?
>
> She wouldn't need to lie if she never chose to say it at all.
>> On 1/30/2016 10:52 AM, Gracchus wrote:
>
>>> Gracious perhaps, but not *very* gracious.
>
>> In the crucial third set, she landed 40% of her first serves. Is that
>> "A" level tennis for her? Should she have lied and said it was?
>
You make it sound like SW went on and on about how bad she played and
gave AK no credit at all. Is *that* accurate?
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stephenJ
Jan 31, 2016, 10:07:20 AM1/31/16
to
On 1/30/2016 7:47 PM, bob wrote:
> On Sat, 30 Jan 2016 05:22:38 -0600, stephenJ <sja...@cox.net> wrote:
>
>> On 1/30/2016 4:57 AM, Whisper wrote:
>>> On 30/01/2016 3:56 PM, stephenJ wrote:
>>>> Serena will lay it all out there, she always does in slam finals. But,
>>>> it's pretty clear she's running out of gas, and fast. Her second-set
>>>> scorelines in recent matches have been far worse than her first, she's
>>>> barely limped across the finish line. And in a best of three match, a
>>>> set lead can quickly turn to even and down a break in the third.
>>>>
>>>> Kerber is a good player. More importantly, she has far more energy and
>>>> zip, and nothing to lose, the pressure is off.
>>>>
>>>> Kerber wins, 3-6 6-4 6-4
>>>>
>>>
>>> Kerber won 64 36 64 so you got the set scores correct. Well done.
>>
>> My prediction was extremely accurate. As I expected, Serena was just
>> out-hustled. She's old, and Keber forced her to hit the extra ball many
>> times, leading to a ton of unforced errors. That, plus terrible
>> first-serving, really hurt her.
>
> IMO serena is choking trying so hard to get to 22, then 23, slams.
I think that's what happened at the USO, the weight of the CYGS got to
> On Sat, 30 Jan 2016 05:22:38 -0600, stephenJ <sja...@cox.net> wrote:
>
>> On 1/30/2016 4:57 AM, Whisper wrote:
>>> On 30/01/2016 3:56 PM, stephenJ wrote:
>>>> Serena will lay it all out there, she always does in slam finals. But,
>>>> it's pretty clear she's running out of gas, and fast. Her second-set
>>>> scorelines in recent matches have been far worse than her first, she's
>>>> barely limped across the finish line. And in a best of three match, a
>>>> set lead can quickly turn to even and down a break in the third.
>>>>
>>>> Kerber is a good player. More importantly, she has far more energy and
>>>> zip, and nothing to lose, the pressure is off.
>>>>
>>>> Kerber wins, 3-6 6-4 6-4
>>>>
>>>
>>> Kerber won 64 36 64 so you got the set scores correct. Well done.
>>
>> My prediction was extremely accurate. As I expected, Serena was just
>> out-hustled. She's old, and Keber forced her to hit the extra ball many
>> times, leading to a ton of unforced errors. That, plus terrible
>> first-serving, really hurt her.
>
> IMO serena is choking trying so hard to get to 22, then 23, slams.
her and that's why she lost to VInci (?).
But not here. This was "just" an AO final. People forget about age but I
see it in Serena. She's slower, and she slows down considerably as
matches go on. She was just out of gas in the 3rd set.
One reason she's the GOAt is that nobody has ever been this good this
old. But she is very old.
soccerfan777
Jan 31, 2016, 10:10:48 AM1/31/16
to
Steffi Graf retired at 29. I am pretty sure she would reached 25 if she continued until 35 like Serena
heyg...@gmail.com
Jan 31, 2016, 10:17:46 AM1/31/16
to
Yelling at someone from 20 feet away can't be worse than yelling right in someone's face and physically bumping and intimidating them...if Serena had done what Jordan did she would have been banned from tennis.
heyg...@gmail.com
Jan 31, 2016, 10:20:28 AM1/31/16
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She won one slam after age 27, and that was mostly due to Hingis' meltdown.
soccerfan777
Jan 31, 2016, 10:52:28 AM1/31/16
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That was because of injury dummy. She skipped several slams in 1997 and 1998.
heyg...@gmail.com
Jan 31, 2016, 11:08:25 AM1/31/16
to
Speaking of Graf, I looked back at her 99 W loss to see her level of graciousness at the end of her career, since surely she's more gracious than Serena. Low and behold what do I find but a whole thread on how bitchy and ungracious she was in her loss. A sample post is below (from a Graf fan). You'd never guess Graf was a consistent poor sport from the current RST posters.
> I get the impression that Graf is generally friendly to her
> peers only when she is beating them!
Much as I hate to, I have to agree here! Even though I have been a big
Graf fan over the years, I was always a bit disappointed with her
behavior after she lost a match. My most vivid memories are of her
inexcusable behavior after her loss to Gabriela Sabatini in the 1990
Open final (one look at Steffi's face after the loss and you'd think
she was going to the electric chair or something!) and the one to Mary
Pierce in the 1994 French SF. Strangely though, I thought she handled
her losses to Seles in the 1992 French final and to ASV in the 1994
Open final much better. I may have been a Graf fan till the end, but
Monica Seles does appear to be a better sport than Graf ever was (what
the hell, even Navratilova handled her losses better towards the end of
her career). I've never been able to fathom Graf's behavior. I think
it's a very German thing (stubbornness and refusal to accept defeat).
> I get the impression that Graf is generally friendly to her
> peers only when she is beating them!
Much as I hate to, I have to agree here! Even though I have been a big
Graf fan over the years, I was always a bit disappointed with her
behavior after she lost a match. My most vivid memories are of her
inexcusable behavior after her loss to Gabriela Sabatini in the 1990
Open final (one look at Steffi's face after the loss and you'd think
she was going to the electric chair or something!) and the one to Mary
Pierce in the 1994 French SF. Strangely though, I thought she handled
her losses to Seles in the 1992 French final and to ASV in the 1994
Open final much better. I may have been a Graf fan till the end, but
Monica Seles does appear to be a better sport than Graf ever was (what
the hell, even Navratilova handled her losses better towards the end of
her career). I've never been able to fathom Graf's behavior. I think
it's a very German thing (stubbornness and refusal to accept defeat).
stephenJ
Jan 31, 2016, 11:17:58 AM1/31/16
to
On 1/31/2016 9:10 AM, soccerfan777 wrote:
> Steffi Graf retired at 29.
Steffi had won 1 slam the previous 3 years. She won all she was capable
> Steffi Graf retired at 29.
of winning.
Really, 5-6 more once we factor in the Parche stabbing impact.
stephenJ
Jan 31, 2016, 11:18:56 AM1/31/16
to
Great find, LOL. :)
Rodjk #613
Jan 31, 2016, 2:00:41 PM1/31/16
to
Jordan brushed against the ref. But in basketball pretty much any touching of the ref is a technical. But threatening the life of a line judge is pretty bad by any standard.
Rodjk #613
heyg...@gmail.com
Jan 31, 2016, 2:47:53 PM1/31/16
to
I agree it violated the norms of tennis and was inappropriate. My point is that in the context of other sports it would've been forgotten the next day.
Darkfalz
Jan 31, 2016, 3:58:54 PM1/31/16
to
Can you imagine an opponent of Serena crossing the net to cut her victory dance short? It would be awkward at best. It's not done, and it's not gracious. Serena knew exactly what she was doing.
Darkfalz
Jan 31, 2016, 4:06:35 PM1/31/16
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On Monday, February 1, 2016 at 12:42:41 AM UTC+11, Ted Schuerzinger wrote:
> On Sat, 30 Jan 2016 19:49:44 -0800 (PST), heyg...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> > Serena's 2009 USO incident wouldn't make the news in baseball,
> > football or basketball where players and coaches routinely yell and
> > curse at officials.
>
> And they routinely get thrown out of games, especially in baseball.
I don't think bringing her behaviour down to the level of football helps her cause much.
> On Sat, 30 Jan 2016 19:49:44 -0800 (PST), heyg...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> > Serena's 2009 USO incident wouldn't make the news in baseball,
> > football or basketball where players and coaches routinely yell and
> > curse at officials.
>
> And they routinely get thrown out of games, especially in baseball.
> You're not suggesting Serena *didn't* foot-fault, are you?
The "if you don't like Serena, you're a racist" argument is about as accurate as "if you don't think Obama is a good president, you're a racist". Serena is the worst major champion ever in many respects. Worse than Agassi. I'd say worse than Mac but I never really saw Mac play in his prime and what actually set him off, or where he directed it most of the time.
Darkfalz
Jan 31, 2016, 4:20:34 PM1/31/16
to
On Sunday, January 31, 2016 at 7:35:15 AM UTC+11, heyg...@gmail.com wrote:
> Much of the flack about Serena anyway is derived from tennis' upper crust, country club history and focus on etiquette. A discussion threat on "graciousness" is proof of that. ;-)
> The things Serena is hated on for would be blip in any other sport.
You don't think this is one of the appeals of tennis to many people? That's it's more a "gentleman's" sport than many others? I know there are weird people like Whisper who see the crude tomfoolery of a Kygrios and get an erection but for me nothing is worse. There's only one way you should be getting into your opponent's head, and that's with your play - not your on court antics.
> Much of the flack about Serena anyway is derived from tennis' upper crust, country club history and focus on etiquette. A discussion threat on "graciousness" is proof of that. ;-)
> The things Serena is hated on for would be blip in any other sport.
Serena has 22 slams and nothing left to prove at 34. She will probably mellow a bit more at losses (especially when they aren't to chief rivals she's built up hatred for) but you need blinders on to mistake her post match act or presser for grace. She cut her opponent's victory celebration short by coming into her space and making it about her. She couldn't stand the spotlight being off her for 30 seconds. That hideous yellow thing she worse this year? What do you think that was about? She was disrespectful during the ceremony, and there are two modes that Serena does loss presses in: saturnine and sarcastic, which I suppose is at least an honest representation of her feelings, or sort of delirious like in this case, acting like it's all a nudge nudge wink wink joke that she lost. She was asked if it was a high quality competitive match in the presser and said no.
Darkfalz
Jan 31, 2016, 4:26:23 PM1/31/16
to
On Monday, February 1, 2016 at 6:47:53 AM UTC+11, heyg...@gmail.com wrote:
> I agree it violated the norms of tennis and was inappropriate. My point is that in the context of other sports it would've been forgotten the next day.
Most sports don't involve only two players and officials who may be under pressure in the match to make fair calls if they feel intimidated by a one player.
> I agree it violated the norms of tennis and was inappropriate. My point is that in the context of other sports it would've been forgotten the next day.
Physically threatening someone for doing their job, someone half your size no less, violates more than just the "norms of tennis". And it's the same thing Serena does with actions rather than words every time she clenches her fist, screams and glares directly at her smaller opponents.
soccerfan777
Jan 31, 2016, 7:55:23 PM1/31/16
to
All valid points Darkfalz. One hug to Kerber after 18 years of tennis when she repeatedly insulted or bullied her opponents on and off the court doesn't erase the past
Court_1
Jan 31, 2016, 8:08:06 PM1/31/16
to
DavidW
Jan 31, 2016, 8:14:41 PM1/31/16
to
not a Graf fan to say those things, yet simply claiming to be one is supposed to
give the post more credibility. Rubbish. And no detail is given, simply vague
references to her "inexcusable behaviour".
And Graf wasn't a "sourpuss". She's just an introverted person whose warmth
underneath was clearly evident when she was interviewed.
Gracchus
Jan 31, 2016, 8:15:05 PM1/31/16
to
On Sunday, January 31, 2016 at 5:08:06 PM UTC-8, Court_1 wrote:
> +1. Graf was a sourpuss, always a miserable Nazi face. I always preferred Seles over Graf.
And you think that Seles was a gracious loser? Who could ever forget her sour grapes rant after Graf trounced her at Wimbledon '92? "I am still the best tennis player in the world. Steffi will never be number one again." That seems a hell of a lot worse than having an unhappy face after losing.
> +1. Graf was a sourpuss, always a miserable Nazi face. I always preferred Seles over Graf.
Gracchus
Jan 31, 2016, 8:22:13 PM1/31/16
to
On Sunday, January 31, 2016 at 5:14:41 PM UTC-8, DavidW wrote:
> Court_1 wrote:
> > On Sunday, January 31, 2016 at 11:08:25 AM UTC-5, heyg...@gmail.com
> Court_1 wrote:
> > On Sunday, January 31, 2016 at 11:08:25 AM UTC-5, heyg...@gmail.com
> >> her career). I've never been able to fathom Graf's behavior. I think
> >> it's a very German thing (stubbornness and refusal to accept defeat).
> > +1. Graf was a sourpuss, always a miserable Nazi face. I always
> > preferred Seles over Graf.
> Whoa. More attacks on Graf being dredged up from last century. That person is
> not a Graf fan to say those things, yet simply claiming to be one is supposed > to give the post more credibility. Rubbish. And no detail is given, simply > > vague references to her "inexcusable behaviour".
It's a diversionary attack by the heydude because he knows that Serena's behavior is indefensible. Look at this list someone assembled of bitchy WTA quotes--Serena and Hingis comprise most of it. Graf's comments are hardly more than a footnote.
> >> it's a very German thing (stubbornness and refusal to accept defeat).
> > +1. Graf was a sourpuss, always a miserable Nazi face. I always
> > preferred Seles over Graf.
> Whoa. More attacks on Graf being dredged up from last century. That person is
> not a Graf fan to say those things, yet simply claiming to be one is supposed > to give the post more credibility. Rubbish. And no detail is given, simply > > vague references to her "inexcusable behaviour".
> And Graf wasn't a "sourpuss". She's just an introverted person whose warmth
> underneath was clearly evident when she was interviewed.
Court_1
Jan 31, 2016, 8:23:27 PM1/31/16
to
On Sunday, January 31, 2016 at 8:14:41 PM UTC-5, DavidW wrote:
> And Graf wasn't a "sourpuss". She's just an introverted person whose warmth
> underneath was clearly evident when she was interviewed.
As I said earlier, the fanatic sees what he wants to see. I wasn't invested heavily in any of those players at the time and had no agenda. I could never warm to Graf. I found her cold and sour.
> And Graf wasn't a "sourpuss". She's just an introverted person whose warmth
> underneath was clearly evident when she was interviewed.
Gracchus
Jan 31, 2016, 8:23:39 PM1/31/16
to
On Sunday, January 31, 2016 at 5:22:13 PM UTC-8, Gracchus wrote:
> Look at this list someone assembled of bitchy WTA quotes--Serena and Hingis comprise most of it. Graf's comments are hardly more than a footnote.
Here's the link:
> Look at this list someone assembled of bitchy WTA quotes--Serena and Hingis comprise most of it. Graf's comments are hardly more than a footnote.
http://www.tennisforum.com/12-general-messages/591409-classic-bitchy-funny-wta-quotes-alternative-title-why-martina-hingis-legend.html
Court_1
Jan 31, 2016, 8:42:56 PM1/31/16
to
All I know is that I wasn't heavily invested in those days. I couldn't care less at the end of the day about Graf/Seles, etc and I always found it hard to warm up to Graf. Was she a brilliant player? Of course. But her whole personality/persona turned me off and I found her to be miserable.
Court_1
Jan 31, 2016, 8:44:32 PM1/31/16
to
On Sunday, January 31, 2016 at 8:22:13 PM UTC-5, Gracchus wrote:
> > And Graf wasn't a "sourpuss". She's just an introverted person whose warmth
> > underneath was clearly evident when she was interviewed.
>
> Exactly.
But you two are Graf fanatics. You can't take fanatics seriously.
> > And Graf wasn't a "sourpuss". She's just an introverted person whose warmth
> > underneath was clearly evident when she was interviewed.
>
> Exactly.
Gracchus
Jan 31, 2016, 8:52:22 PM1/31/16
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Court_1
Jan 31, 2016, 11:25:24 PM1/31/16
to
I'm rational about Borg too even though he'll always be my favorite player. In the "has Djokovic surpassed Borg" thread I said they are pretty equal at the moment. Borg has the W/FO stats and Djokovic has the better #1 stats. Nadal has surpassed Borg. I'm not a nut when it comes to any of these players despite my personal preferences. On the other hand, would you ever be able to admit if Serena surpasses Graf?
Gracchus
Jan 31, 2016, 11:39:52 PM1/31/16
to
On Sunday, January 31, 2016 at 8:25:24 PM UTC-8, Court_1 wrote:
> I'm rational about Borg too even though he'll always be my favorite player. In the "has Djokovic surpassed Borg" thread I said they are pretty equal at the moment. Borg has the W/FO stats and Djokovic has the better #1 stats. Nadal has surpassed Borg. I'm not a nut when it comes to any of these players despite my personal preferences. On the other hand, would you ever be able to admit if Serena surpasses Graf?
Yes. I detest everything about Serena, including her style of tennis, but she's beaten everyone she's needed to beat for close to 20 years and kept piling up slams. And unlike Nadal, her results are fairly balanced across surfaces. If she tops Graf's slam count, that pretty much does it.
> I'm rational about Borg too even though he'll always be my favorite player. In the "has Djokovic surpassed Borg" thread I said they are pretty equal at the moment. Borg has the W/FO stats and Djokovic has the better #1 stats. Nadal has surpassed Borg. I'm not a nut when it comes to any of these players despite my personal preferences. On the other hand, would you ever be able to admit if Serena surpasses Graf?
calim...@gmx.de
Feb 1, 2016, 2:21:10 AM2/1/16
to
Max
DavidW
Feb 1, 2016, 3:16:36 AM2/1/16
to
On 01-Feb-16 3:39 PM, Gracchus wrote:
>
> Yes. I detest everything about Serena, including her style of tennis,
> but she's beaten everyone she's needed to beat for close to 20 years
> and kept piling up slams. And unlike Nadal, her results are fairly
> balanced across surfaces. If she tops Graf's slam count, that pretty
> much does it.
Ah, that's not the script. Please check your notes.
>
> Yes. I detest everything about Serena, including her style of tennis,
> but she's beaten everyone she's needed to beat for close to 20 years
> and kept piling up slams. And unlike Nadal, her results are fairly
> balanced across surfaces. If she tops Graf's slam count, that pretty
> much does it.
Gracchus
Feb 1, 2016, 3:32:02 AM2/1/16
to
Better?
Whisper
Feb 1, 2016, 4:33:00 AM2/1/16
to
On 1/02/2016 2:20 AM, heyg...@gmail.com wrote:
> She won one slam after age 27, and that was mostly due to Hingis' meltdown.
>
Graf could have easily achieved so much more & all before 30, eg;
she skipped AO in 1995 & 1996, yet won the next 3 slams in both yrs.
Seles was absent so she easily could have had 3 calendar slams. She
also skipped 4 slams in a row from Wimbledon '97 to FO '98.
You're lucky Graf said she was never motivated by breaking records,
whereas Serena is the exact opposite.
> She won one slam after age 27, and that was mostly due to Hingis' meltdown.
>
Graf could have easily achieved so much more & all before 30, eg;
she skipped AO in 1995 & 1996, yet won the next 3 slams in both yrs.
Seles was absent so she easily could have had 3 calendar slams. She
also skipped 4 slams in a row from Wimbledon '97 to FO '98.
You're lucky Graf said she was never motivated by breaking records,
whereas Serena is the exact opposite.
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