Cilic will be dangerous in Wimbledon

[PeteWasLucky]

He set high goals for himself this year.
Also he almost took out Federer in last year Wimbledon and we know what happened after.
Definitely I hope he won't be on Federer's side of the draw.

[PeteWasLucky]

I hope he is not in Federer's side of the draw.

[SliceAndDice]

On Sunday, June 25, 2017 at 9:53:25 AM UTC-4, PeteWasLucky wrote:
> I hope he is not in Federer's side of the draw.

Agree. I watched him after you mentioned him, and he is looking very dangerous. Do you know what his seeding would be at Wimbledon?

[*skriptis]

PeteWasLucky <waleed...@gmail.com> Wrote in message:

> I hope he is not in Federer's side of the draw.
>

Cilic is declining. 2014-15-16.

Take a look at his Wimbledon, USO performances.

2014
Wim, QF loss to Djokovic, winner
USO, won himself.

2015
Wim, QF loss to Djokovic, winner
USO, SF loss to Djokovic, winner

2016
Wim, QF loss to Federer, loser
USO, 3rd loss to Sock, loser.



He's even struggling now vs aged Lopez in Queen's final.



--


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[*skriptis]

PeteWasLucky <waleed...@gmail.com> Wrote in message:

> I hope he is not in Federer's side of the draw.
>

[*skriptis]

PeteWasLucky <waleed...@gmail.com> Wrote in message:

> I hope he is not in Federer's side of the draw.
>

[*skriptis]

PeteWasLucky <waleed...@gmail.com> Wrote in message:

> I hope he is not in Federer's side of the draw.
>

[*skriptis]

SliceAndDice <vish...@gmail.com> Wrote in message:

> On Sunday, June 25, 2017 at 9:53:25 AM UTC-4, PeteWasLucky wrote:
>> I hope he is not in Federer's side of the draw.
>
> Agree. I watched him after you mentioned him, and he is looking very dangerous. Do you know what his seeding would be at Wimbledon?
>

I reckon 7th?

He should face seed #2 in QF?

[Court_1]

Meh. I'm not so sure how dangerous Cilic will be for Federer? Cilic's having a hard time putting Lopez away in Queens.

I think Kyrgios if he's actually trying would be more dangerous for Federer and then of course Nadal, if he makes the final.

[John Liang]

I actually don't know how dangerous Nadal will be on grass because he actually won 5 matches in 5 years since 2011. I also don't know how dangerous Cilic will be and that is not because Cilic lacks ability but more about which 1 will turn up in a match. When Cilic is on he can simply blow any player off the court. As talented as Kyrgios is I just don't get the sense he is as dangerous as Cilic.

[Court_1]

I'm talking about IF Nadal makes the final!

There are only a few players I see that can be dangerous to Federer at Wimbledon. Maybe Cilic if he's zoning and Federer is off, maybe Kyrgios if he's playing seriously, Djokovic if he magically finds great form and then Nadal IF he's good enough to make the final.

[Court_1]

Also, maybe Raonic if he's somehow zoning.

[PeteWasLucky]

> Meh. I'm not so sure how dangerous Cilic will be for Federer? Cilic's having a hard time putting Lopez away in Queens.

I think Kyrgios if he's actually trying would be more dangerous for Federer and then of course Nadal, if he makes the final.

I remember he put goals for himself this year to be in top 5 or maybe top 10, I believe top 5.

He is very dangerous when he is determined.

If Federer didn't play him last year in Wimbledon he would have great chance to win the title.

[John Liang]

On Monday, June 26, 2017 at 1:04:00 AM UTC+10, Court_1 wrote:
> On Sunday, June 25, 2017 at 10:56:41 AM UTC-4, John Liang wrote:
> > On Monday, June 26, 2017 at 12:50:25 AM UTC+10, Court_1 wrote:
> > > On Thursday, June 15, 2017 at 8:42:50 AM UTC-4, PeteWasLucky wrote:
> > > > He set high goals for himself this year.
> > > > Also he almost took out Federer in last year Wimbledon and we know what happened after.
> > > > Definitely I hope he won't be on Federer's side of the draw.
> > >
> > > Meh. I'm not so sure how dangerous Cilic will be for Federer? Cilic's having a hard time putting Lopez away in Queens.
> > >
> > > I think Kyrgios if he's actually trying would be more dangerous for Federer and then of course Nadal, if he makes the final.
> >
> > I actually don't know how dangerous Nadal will be on grass because he actually won 5 matches in 5 years since 2011. I also don't know how dangerous Cilic will be and that is not because Cilic lacks ability but more about which 1 will turn up in a match. When Cilic is on he can simply blow any player off the court. As talented as Kyrgios is I just don't get the sense he is as dangerous as Cilic.
>
> I'm talking about IF Nadal makes the final!

How much chance do you give a player that won 5 matches in 5 years ? I think it is more likely he won't even make it past the first week.

>
> There are only a few players I see that can be dangerous to Federer at Wimbledon. Maybe Cilic if he's zoning and Federer is off, maybe Kyrgios if he's playing seriously, Djokovic if he magically finds great form and then Nadal IF he's good enough to make the final.

Kyrgios has not shown anything since his last decent outing at Indian Wells. Cilic is the only one who showed some good grass court form in the last two weeks. Nadal, he was tired from clay court season.

[Carey]

On Sunday, June 25, 2017 at 2:13:43 PM UTC-7, John Liang wrote:
> On Monday, June 26, 2017 at 1:04:00 AM UTC+10, Court_1 wrote:
> > On Sunday, June 25, 2017 at 10:56:41 AM UTC-4, John Liang wrote:
> > > On Monday, June 26, 2017 at 12:50:25 AM UTC+10, Court_1 wrote:
> > > > On Thursday, June 15, 2017 at 8:42:50 AM UTC-4, PeteWasLucky wrote:
> > > > > He set high goals for himself this year.
> > > > > Also he almost took out Federer in last year Wimbledon and we know what happened after.
> > > > > Definitely I hope he won't be on Federer's side of the draw.
> > > >
> > > > Meh. I'm not so sure how dangerous Cilic will be for Federer? Cilic's having a hard time putting Lopez away in Queens.
> > > >
> > > > I think Kyrgios if he's actually trying would be more dangerous for Federer and then of course Nadal, if he makes the final.
> > >
> > > I actually don't know how dangerous Nadal will be on grass because he actually won 5 matches in 5 years since 2011. I also don't know how dangerous Cilic will be and that is not because Cilic lacks ability but more about which 1 will turn up in a match. When Cilic is on he can simply blow any player off the court. As talented as Kyrgios is I just don't get the sense he is as dangerous as Cilic.
> >
> > I'm talking about IF Nadal makes the final!
>
> How much chance do you give a player that won 5 matches in 5 years ? I think it is more likely he won't even make it past the first week.<

Seems likely that it depends on how well N is stocked with spinach™.

Moya says N is coming to play. OTOH, there's the trial to think about.

Mmm.

[PeteWasLucky]

> Seems likely that it depends on how well N is stocked with spinach™.

Too much spinach is not healthy

[Court_1]

On Sunday, June 25, 2017 at 5:13:43 PM UTC-4, John Liang wrote:

> How much chance do you give a player that won 5 matches in 5 years ? I think it is more likely he won't even make it past the first week.

I don't know, I have to see the draw.

> Kyrgios has not shown anything since his last decent outing at Indian Wells. Cilic is the only one who showed some good grass court form in the last two weeks. Nadal, he was tired from clay court season.

I'm not convinced about Cilic. He lost to Karlovic and Lopez in the past couple of weeks. He's definitely a dangerous guy on a grass surface but I think Kyrgios is as well. Hopefully Federer can get through all of these dangerous players.

[The Iceberg]

Cilic is such a danger he lost to 40 year old Lopez!

[Whisper]

Peak Cilic could serve Fed off the court, as he did when he won that USO
63 63 64 without breaking a sweat.

Incidentally I never notice you discussing this thrashing of Fed at USO?
Seems odd when you look at the thousands of posts you made about Safin
& Hewitt beating Sampras at USO. Must be an honest oversight?



---
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
http://www.avg.com

[Whisper]

Realistically Rafa is probably the best bet to beat Fed, but yes he has
to find his grass feet & get through 1st few matches. The ferocious
form he showed in FO final will easily translate to Wimbledon & could
possibly overwhelm Fed.

[Whisper]

Too 1 dimensional. Best he can hope for is lose in t/b's.

[TT]

Yes, Rafa could be really dangerous this Wimbledon IF he gets through
first few rounds. I guess it depends a lot on how his knees react to
grass as he himself put it.

He'll be playing a couple matches at Hurlingham exo this week. Murray
plays there too.

[Whisper]

On 26/06/2017 7:13 AM, John Liang wrote:
> On Monday, June 26, 2017 at 1:04:00 AM UTC+10, Court_1 wrote:
>> On Sunday, June 25, 2017 at 10:56:41 AM UTC-4, John Liang wrote:
>>> On Monday, June 26, 2017 at 12:50:25 AM UTC+10, Court_1 wrote:
>>>> On Thursday, June 15, 2017 at 8:42:50 AM UTC-4, PeteWasLucky wrote:
>>>>> He set high goals for himself this year.
>>>>> Also he almost took out Federer in last year Wimbledon and we know what happened after.
>>>>> Definitely I hope he won't be on Federer's side of the draw.
>>>>
>>>> Meh. I'm not so sure how dangerous Cilic will be for Federer? Cilic's having a hard time putting Lopez away in Queens.
>>>>
>>>> I think Kyrgios if he's actually trying would be more dangerous for Federer and then of course Nadal, if he makes the final.
>>>
>>> I actually don't know how dangerous Nadal will be on grass because he actually won 5 matches in 5 years since 2011. I also don't know how dangerous Cilic will be and that is not because Cilic lacks ability but more about which 1 will turn up in a match. When Cilic is on he can simply blow any player off the court. As talented as Kyrgios is I just don't get the sense he is as dangerous as Cilic.
>>
>> I'm talking about IF Nadal makes the final!
>
> How much chance do you give a player that won 5 matches in 5 years ? I think it is more likely he won't even make it past the first week.

This is 2017 Nadal. He played very well at AO, & 3 times as well at FO.
Both he & Fed will be very confident & in vintage form.

[Court_1]

On Monday, June 26, 2017 at 8:25:15 AM UTC-4, Whisper wrote:

> Realistically Rafa is probably the best bet to beat Fed, but yes he has
> to find his grass feet & get through 1st few matches. The ferocious
> form he showed in FO final will easily translate to Wimbledon & could
> possibly overwhelm Fed.

You know how I've been skeptical about Federer's chances vs Nadal in slams for a long time considering their past history but I feel at this moment that if Nadal does make it to the final and Federer is waiting there that Federer will win this time. I think if Nadal can't pick on Federer's backhand it will be more difficult for Nadal to beat him especially on a grass surface. I have to wait and see the draw but at the moment I'm liking Federer for the title.

[Court_1]

I think Federer is the firm favorite to win the title.

[Pelle Svanslos]

Especially the 3rd round match which is played in a Paris court.
Different footwork. Easy on the knees though.

The ferocious
> form he showed in FO final will easily translate to Wimbledon

Let's see what Dustin Brown thinks of that.

[Carey]

http://www.atpworldtour.com/en/players/fedex-head-2-head/marin-cilic-vs-roger-federer/C977/F324

[alan...@gmail.com]

Err, regarding whispers post about the 2014 fed cilic match, err fed was still coming back from his back injury year of 2013, and was still adjusting to the new racket. If that meeting happens now, the score would be the score would be the same with Fed victorious now.

[kaennorsing]

Op maandag 26 juni 2017 14:53:13 UTC+2 schreef Court_1:

> I think Federer is the firm favorite to win the title.

No doubt he's the favorite now after firing on all cilinders in the Halle final. That was magical. If he can tap into that form when necessary he'll be tough to stop for anyone... He does need to avoid a bad day vs a big hitter early in the tournament.

[PeteWasLucky]

> No doubt he's the favorite now after firing on all cilinders in the Halle final. That was magical. If he can tap into that form when necessary he'll be tough to stop for anyone... He does need to avoid a bad day vs a big hitter early in the tournament.

Yes, bad days ...

[Carey]

35. Bad days can and will happen. I'm not positive winning Halle was for the best, though it was *glorious* tennis.

Go Fed!

[Court_1]

The draw will be important for all the Big Four players.

But yeah, Federer looked fabulous vs Zverev in that Halle final. The poor kid didn't know what hit him. This is the same kid who demolished Djokovic in Rome a few weeks before. *cackles*

[Whisper]

You can make a case for both guys winning a potential final here eg both
playing great, plenty of experience, both confident after winning recent
slams etc. I'd go with Rafa because imo his best game will always beat
Federer. AO final was great tennis from Roger & very good from Rafa, but
it was a long way short of what we saw at FO from Rafa. He was a just a
beast. Yes this is grass, but that's not as big a factor in this era &
between these 2 guys.

Regardless I'm hoping for a cracker quality final if they both get
there. If they both carry on the trajectory they have this yr I'll say
Rafa in 3 or 4.

[Whisper]

It could appear that way on paper, but dig a little deeper & we see Fed
was on fire in AO final yet still down 1-3 in 5th. That Rafa was about
50% of FO final Rafa.

Having said that we'll probably have a Kyrgios/Zverev final.

: )

[jdeluise]

On Mon, 26 Jun 2017 16:55:30 -0700, Court_1 wrote:

> But yeah, Federer looked fabulous vs Zverev in that Halle final. The
> poor kid didn't know what hit him. This is the same kid who demolished
> Djokovic in Rome a few weeks before. *cackles*

He really did look good and confident against Zverev, but that's how he
always looks when he plays freely and confidently and *without thinking
too much*... Against these young up-and-comers it's much easier for him
to play that way though, for whatever reason.

Federer's downfall throughout his career in the big matches against
established, tough players is that he seems to think too much in them.
The doubts creep in after a couple of "wow" shots are returned for
winners and he becomes tentative, second guesses himself (it particularly
manifests itself with poor net approach selections and sometimes rather
desperate looking SABR attempts). Against guys like Djok and Nadal, and
Murray at times if only he could turn that part of his psyche off I think
he'd have a much better record against them would and would already be
going for #10 at Wimbledon. Do you think Shakes could take that? :) Ah
well, we all have weaknesses.

All that being said, I can't really read too much into his win over
Zverev, but I do agree it was impressive and I loved seeing him play as
well as he did.

[Court_1]

On Monday, June 26, 2017 at 9:33:28 PM UTC-4, Whisper wrote:

> You can make a case for both guys winning a potential final here eg both
> playing great, plenty of experience, both confident after winning recent
> slams etc.

Yes.

> I'd go with Rafa because imo his best game will always beat
> Federer.

Not these days with Fed's improved bh, ROS and increased confidence vs Nadal.

> AO final was great tennis from Roger & very good from Rafa, but
> it was a long way short of what we saw at FO from Rafa.

That was at the FO where Nadal is one of a kind.

>Yes this is grass, but that's not as big a factor in this era &
between these 2 guys

Of course it's a factor! One has 7 Wimbledon titles and one has 2!

> Regardless I'm hoping for a cracker quality final if they both get
> there. If they both carry on the trajectory they have this yr I'll say
> Rafa in 3 or 4.

If they both get to the final, no way will it be decided in three sets! What are you smoking? It will be a battle. At the moment I say it's a slight edge to Federer on a grass court as long as he can continue with his great serving, super aggressive bh and aggressive ROS.

[Court_1]

On Monday, June 26, 2017 at 9:36:04 PM UTC-4, Whisper wrote:


> It could appear that way on paper, but dig a little deeper & we see Fed
> was on fire in AO final yet still down 1-3 in 5th. That Rafa was about
> 50% of FO final Rafa.

I don't have to dig a little deeper because Federer won vs Nadal at the AO, IW and Miami.

> Having said that we'll probably have a Kyrgios/Zverev final.

I don't think so.

[Court_1]

On Monday, June 26, 2017 at 9:37:26 PM UTC-4, jdeluise wrote:


> Federer's downfall throughout his career in the big matches against
> established, tough players is that he seems to think too much in them.
> The doubts creep in after a couple of "wow" shots are returned for
> winners and he becomes tentative, second guesses himself (it particularly
> manifests itself with poor net approach selections and sometimes rather
> desperate looking SABR attempts). Against guys like Djok and Nadal, and
> Murray at times if only he could turn that part of his psyche off I think
> he'd have a much better record against them

But Federer didn't do that against Nadal at the AO, IW and Miami! The shrink he's been seeing has been doing a good job! :)

[jdeluise]

On Mon, 26 Jun 2017 18:47:18 -0700, Court_1 wrote:

> But Federer didn't do that against Nadal at the AO, IW and Miami! The
> shrink he's been seeing has been doing a good job! :)

True, but he looked he couldn't believe it himself when he won. I'm not
totally convinced he could turn a corner so easily on a consistent basis
with something that's given him so much trouble throughout his career.
In any case, I still suspect Nadal will lose to some boob in the early
rounds. Watch for some drama about his knees at the upcoming exos :)

[Guypers]

Rafa will lose in the qf to Kyrgios, Sasha or Raonic or even Cilic at W!

[PeteWasLucky]

> True, but he looked he couldn't believe it himself when he won. I'm not
totally convinced he could turn a corner so easily on a consistent basis
with something that's given him so much trouble throughout his career.
In any case, I still suspect Nadal will lose to some boob in the early
rounds. Watch for some drama about his knees at the upcoming exos :)

In the old days a dead tired nadal would be sure he could beat Federer but after the last three losses against Federer I believe nadal will be having doubts while Federer will be looking to repeat what has done again and again in these matches to cement his believes about his new game and strategy. Federer isn't scared any more.

[Whisper]

On 27/06/2017 11:44 AM, Court_1 wrote:
> On Monday, June 26, 2017 at 9:36:04 PM UTC-4, Whisper wrote:
>
>
>> It could appear that way on paper, but dig a little deeper & we see Fed
>> was on fire in AO final yet still down 1-3 in 5th. That Rafa was about
>> 50% of FO final Rafa.
>
> I don't have to dig a little deeper because Federer won vs Nadal at the AO, IW and Miami.
>
>

Ok, I warned you.

[Court_1]

On Monday, June 26, 2017 at 10:19:09 PM UTC-4, Whisper wrote:
> On 27/06/2017 11:44 AM, Court_1 wrote:
> > On Monday, June 26, 2017 at 9:36:04 PM UTC-4, Whisper wrote:
> >
> >
> >> It could appear that way on paper, but dig a little deeper & we see Fed
> >> was on fire in AO final yet still down 1-3 in 5th. That Rafa was about
> >> 50% of FO final Rafa.
> >
> > I don't have to dig a little deeper because Federer won vs Nadal at the AO, IW and Miami.
> >
> >
>
>
>
> Ok, I warned you.
>
> : )

LOL, you were fighting me about Stan's chances vs Federer at the AO and tying to convince me that Stan had the upper hand and would win. You also said Fed had no chance vs Nadal in the AO final and I said Federer had a chance on the faster hc. I like my chances here! :)

In all seriousness, I think if it's a Fedal final it will be a brutal battle and it could go either way. I would give a slight edge to Federer on this surface if he can keep his new mindset vs Nadal and his aggressive bh/ROS combo.

[Whisper]

On 27/06/2017 12:30 PM, Court_1 wrote:
> On Monday, June 26, 2017 at 10:19:09 PM UTC-4, Whisper wrote:
>> On 27/06/2017 11:44 AM, Court_1 wrote:
>>> On Monday, June 26, 2017 at 9:36:04 PM UTC-4, Whisper wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> It could appear that way on paper, but dig a little deeper & we see Fed
>>>> was on fire in AO final yet still down 1-3 in 5th. That Rafa was about
>>>> 50% of FO final Rafa.
>>>
>>> I don't have to dig a little deeper because Federer won vs Nadal at the AO, IW and Miami.
>>>
>>
>> Ok, I warned you.
>>
>> : )
>
>
> LOL, you were fighting me about Stan's chances vs Federer at the AO and tying to convince me that Stan had the upper hand and would win. You also said Fed had no chance vs Nadal in the AO final and I said Federer had a chance on the faster hc. I like my chances here! :)

Ok you got me there. I still think Fed bucked the odds winning last 2
matches at AO, but I was happy to see it. Great tennis.

>
> In all seriousness, I think if it's a Fedal final it will be a brutal battle and it could go either way. I would give a slight edge to Federer on this surface if he can keep his new mindset vs Nadal and his aggressive bh/ROS combo.
>

Before watching 'the beast' at FO I would have agreed. Rafa will also
be out for vengeance.

[Gracchus]

You can't generalize anything Nadal does at the FO to anywhere else. He's near-invincible on the red clay in that arena and all opponents know his history there before stepping on court against him. Let's not forget how many times he played a dominant FO only to crash out early at Wimbledon. Of course, this year might just be different in that regard. I certainly hope not. :)

[John Liang]

On Monday, June 26, 2017 at 10:23:06 PM UTC+10, Whisper wrote:

> On 26/06/2017 12:56 AM, John Liang wrote:
> > On Monday, June 26, 2017 at 12:50:25 AM UTC+10, Court_1 wrote:
> >> On Thursday, June 15, 2017 at 8:42:50 AM UTC-4, PeteWasLucky wrote:
> >>> He set high goals for himself this year.
> >>> Also he almost took out Federer in last year Wimbledon and we know what happened after.
> >>> Definitely I hope he won't be on Federer's side of the draw.
> >>
> >> Meh. I'm not so sure how dangerous Cilic will be for Federer? Cilic's having a hard time putting Lopez away in Queens.
> >>
> >> I think Kyrgios if he's actually trying would be more dangerous for Federer and then of course Nadal, if he makes the final.
> >
> > I actually don't know how dangerous Nadal will be on grass because he actually won 5 matches in 5 years since 2011. I also don't know how dangerous Cilic will be and that is not because Cilic lacks ability but more about which 1 will turn up in a match. When Cilic is on he can simply blow any player off the court. As talented as Kyrgios is I just don't get the sense he is as dangerous as Cilic.
> >
>
>

> Peak Cilic could serve Fed off the court, as he did when he won that USO
> 63 63 64 without breaking a sweat.
>
> Incidentally I never notice you discussing this thrashing of Fed at USO?
> Seems odd when you look at the thousands of posts you made about Safin
> & Hewitt beating Sampras at USO. Must be an honest oversight?

Seemed odd you have a real problem accepting the fact Hewitt beat Sampras quite often on hard court. Sampras was a great champion and Hewitt beating him at slam final does not make him a lesser player. Clearly Hewitt and Safin were more talented than those gap player of the mid 90s like Kafelnikov, Moya type. How often did Cilic beat Fed? probaby 2 out 10 times they played and how often did Hewitt beat Sampras ? About 50% of the time.

[Court_1]

On Tuesday, June 27, 2017 at 12:27:04 AM UTC-4, Gracchus wrote:

> You can't generalize anything Nadal does at the FO to anywhere else. He's near-invincible on the red clay in that arena and all opponents know his history there before stepping on court against him. Let's not forget how many times he played a dominant FO only to crash out early at Wimbledon. Of course, this year might just be different in that regard. I certainly hope not. :)

I would agree with you but the truth is I think Nadal is probably going to do well at Wimbledon this year unless he has some kind of brutal draw with heavy hitter after heavy hitter. He's playing much more aggressively this year.

[Carey]

Yeah, I'm thinking N is rested and ready, if you know what I mean.

[SliceAndDice]

Umm..Nadal has won 2/3rd of his slams at the French and 72% of his titles on clay. I would not use his form there to predict how he will do elsewhere.

[kaennorsing]

Op dinsdag 27 juni 2017 03:36:04 UTC+2 schreef Whisper:

> It could appear that way on paper, but dig a little deeper & we see Fed
> was on fire in AO final yet still down 1-3 in 5th. That Rafa was about
> 50% of FO final Rafa.
>
> Having said that we'll probably have a Kyrgios/Zverev final.
>
> : )

Take Federer out of the picture and Rafa would have probably won AO, Indian Wells and Miami back to back to back for what would have been his best ever run on hard, by far. As it is though, it's still his best ever start to the year, despite the 3 losses to Fed.

You're only dismissing his level because of those losses to the GOAT. Hoever, nobody's stupid enough to fall for it. The clay and FO just reaffirmed his incredible, recordbreaking level this year.

[TT]

Quit trolling...

If Nadal was in recordbreaking form then how come he lost at AO, IW and
Miami to Fed where he had 6-2 edge. Maybe you could argue that it's the
Fed's 'improved' bh but that still doesn't explain leading in the fifth
with a break and then losing easily... that's not Rafa-like at all.

At best you could argue that Fed is in record breaking form and still
didn't have guts to face Rafa on clay. Or maybe he had to dope a little
more as he obviously had done during the break before AO.

[Gracchus]

But of course there's nothing suspicious about Nadal getting kicked around by every shmoe on tour for a couple of years and suddenly returning to top 3 form. Amazing what a nutritious can of spinach can do.

[PeteWasLucky]

> Quit trolling...

So you don't want to say Federer beat top form nadal, and that nadal somehow became top form when the clay season started that coincidentally it's all clay surface :)

So since you are saying Nadal is top form now, will he be top form if he loses on grass or on HC the rest of the year?

[Whisper]

That's exactly what I'm using. His form is extra special this yr.

: )



--
"A GOAT who isn't BOAT can never become GOAT if he plays alongside BOAT"

[Whisper]

Come on, anyone can see Rafa v Stan FO final was much higher standard
from Rafa than AO.

[Whisper]

On 28/06/2017 2:23 AM, PeteWasLucky wrote:
>> Quit trolling...
>
> So you don't want to say Federer beat top form nadal, and that nadal somehow became top form when the clay season started that coincidentally it's all clay surface :)
>

Look at Rafa's path to AO final compared to FO.

There is nothing to debate here. Rafa was 3 times better at FO than AO.
Fed fans better hope & pray Rafa drops back to AO form to give Fed a
chance.

[Court_1]

Ok, but if Nadal somehow loses early at Wimbledon or makes the final and loses there (especially to Federer) don't go claiming his form dropped again.

The truth is his form has been incredible all year. If he's making hc slam finals he's playing some of his best tennis. Also, you said repeatedly after the AO final that Nadal's level was high in that final and that Federer grew some balls and outplayed him for once. Don't go back on that now and look like a weasel.

[Court_1]

On Tuesday, June 27, 2017 at 12:31:01 PM UTC-4, Whisper wrote:
> On 28/06/2017 2:23 AM, PeteWasLucky wrote:
> >> Quit trolling...
> >
> > So you don't want to say Federer beat top form nadal, and that nadal somehow became top form when the clay season started that coincidentally it's all clay surface :)
> >
>
>
>
> Look at Rafa's path to AO final compared to FO.
>
> There is nothing to debate here. Rafa was 3 times better at FO than AO.
> Fed fans better hope & pray Rafa drops back to AO form to give Fed a
> chance.

And you better hope Federer forgets how to serve and hit his new and improved bh and ROS or else Sampras' most important record will be in the toilet! :)

[kaennorsing]

Op dinsdag 27 juni 2017 18:27:33 UTC+2 schreef Whisper:

> Come on, anyone can see Rafa v Stan FO final was much higher standard
> from Rafa than AO.

So Rafa is as good on other surfaces as he is on clay? Oh wow, I didn't know that! But what explains the zero title defenses on other surfaces than clay, where he defends pretty much everything he plays? And shouldn't he posses the all time slam record with about 40 slams in total by now? Instead of a measly 15?

Perhaps playing Fed, the tennis GOAT, at a hardcourt slam is a little more difficult to look as great against as vs Stan on clay? Particularly for Rafa, the clear clay GOAT? Could it be that?

[Carey]

On Tuesday, June 27, 2017 at 9:51:14 AM UTC-7, kaennorsing wrote:

>
> So Rafa is as good on other surfaces as he is on clay? Oh wow, I didn't know that! But what explains the zero title defenses on other surfaces than clay, where he defends pretty much everything he plays? And shouldn't he posses the all time slam record with about 40 slams in total by now? Instead of a measly 15?
>
> Perhaps playing Fed, the tennis GOAT, at a hardcourt slam is a little more difficult to look as great against as vs Stan on clay? Particularly for Rafa, the clear clay GOAT? Could it be that?

:)

[*skriptis]

jdeluise <jdel...@gmail.com> Wrote in message:
> On Mon, 26 Jun 2017 16:55:30 -0700, Court_1 wrote:
>
>> But yeah, Federer looked fabulous vs Zverev in that Halle final. The
>> poor kid didn't know what hit him. This is the same kid who demolished
>> Djokovic in Rome a few weeks before. *cackles*
>
> He really did look good and confident against Zverev, but that's how he
> always looks when he plays freely and confidently and *without thinking
> too much*... Against these young up-and-comers it's much easier for him
> to play that way though, for whatever reason.

>
> Federer's downfall throughout his career in the big matches against
> established, tough players is that he seems to think too much in them.
> The doubts creep in after a couple of "wow" shots are returned for
> winners and he becomes tentative, second guesses himself (it particularly
> manifests itself with poor net approach selections and sometimes rather
> desperate looking SABR attempts). Against guys like Djok and Nadal, and
> Murray at times if only he could turn that part of his psyche off I think

> he'd have a much better record against them would and would already be
> going for #10 at Wimbledon.


If he were like that, not only he'd be going for his 10th
Wimbledon, but I'd be his biggest fan.

But he isn't, and you described him pretty accurately. I can't
warm up for such a player with such psyche and mental fortitude.








Do you think Shakes could take that? :) Ah
> well, we all have weaknesses.
>
> All that being said, I can't really read too much into his win over
> Zverev, but I do agree it was impressive and I loved seeing him play as
> well as he did.
>


--


----Android NewsGroup Reader----
http://usenet.sinaapp.com/

[*skriptis]

kaennorsing <ljub...@hotmail.com> Wrote in message:

> Op dinsdag 27 juni 2017 03:36:04 UTC+2 schreef Whisper:
>
>> It could appear that way on paper, but dig a little deeper & we see Fed
>> was on fire in AO final yet still down 1-3 in 5th. That Rafa was about
>> 50% of FO final Rafa.
>>
>> Having said that we'll probably have a Kyrgios/Zverev final.
>>
>> : )
>
> Take Federer out of the picture and Rafa would have probably won AO, Indian Wells and Miami back to back to back for what would have been his best ever run on hard, by far. As it is though, it's still his best ever start to the year, despite the 3 losses to Fed.

You do realize Nadal won IW, Canada, Cincinnati, US Open in 2013?

How would winning AO, losing to Querrey in Acapulco, and winning
IW, Miami constitute by far the best hardcourt run??

Not to mention that you can't go coulda woulda that far. He lost
to Federer before the final in IW. So hypothetical IW is worth
far less that hypothetical AO and Miami this year.

[Guypers]

Fed at peak is in a higher quantum level than peak Laver, Sampras, Kneedal on grass is like Hydrogen!

[Court_1]

On Tuesday, June 27, 2017 at 12:51:14 PM UTC-4, kaennorsing wrote:

> Perhaps playing Fed, the tennis GOAT, at a hardcourt slam is a little more difficult to look as great against as vs Stan on clay? Particularly for Rafa, the clear clay GOAT? Could it be that?

You know what, it doesn't matter what Federer accomplishes. These clueless souls on RST will find a way to diminish any great Federer feat. If Federer wins Wimbledon and thus establishes his GOATNESS even further, there will be a whole new barrel of reasons why it doesn't count or it's not as impressive according to these numbskulls.

He's the friggin' GOAT you RST morons! If he wins this Wimbledon there will be ZERO doubt left. I really hope Federer wins this Wimbledon so you can all choke on your own bile. Please Fed, don't fuck up. You have one more big job to do!

[Gracchus]

On Tuesday, June 27, 2017 at 9:36:21 AM UTC-7, Court_1 wrote:
> On Tuesday, June 27, 2017 at 12:27:33 PM UTC-4, Whisper wrote:

> > Come on, anyone can see Rafa v Stan FO final was much higher standard
> > from Rafa than AO.

> Ok, but if Nadal somehow loses early at Wimbledon or makes the final and loses there (especially to Federer) don't go claiming his form dropped again.

> The truth is his form has been incredible all year. If he's making hc slam finals he's playing some of his best tennis. Also, you said repeatedly after the AO final that Nadal's level was high in that final and that Federer grew some balls and outplayed him for once. Don't go back on that now and look like a weasel.

I knew that Whisp would eventually do that after the AO. He tried to play the good sport for a few weeks about how glad he was to see Federer step up, and all that bullshit. Then after a couple of months, it's Rafa was up 3-1 and let it slip away, Rafa was playing 50% of his FO level (as if the slow red clay weren't a factor in that??). Can't keep the weasel in its den forever I guess.

[Court_1]

On Tuesday, June 27, 2017 at 1:18:39 PM UTC-4, Gracchus wrote:

> > The truth is his form has been incredible all year. If he's making hc slam finals he's playing some of his best tennis. Also, you said repeatedly after the AO final that Nadal's level was high in that final and that Federer grew some balls and outplayed him for once. Don't go back on that now and look like a weasel.
>
> I knew that Whisp would eventually do that after the AO. He tried to play the good sport for a few weeks about how glad he was to see Federer step up, and all that bullshit. Then after a couple of months, it's Rafa was up 3-1 and let it slip away, Rafa was playing 50% of his FO level (as if the slow red clay weren't a factor in that??). Can't keep the weasel in its den forever I guess.

Ha ha, exactly and he's so predictable. You could see him stewing in his juices and knew this new angle was coming to try and diminish Fed's great AO performance(one he told us over and over was a great and ballsy Fed performance!) Vomit!

[PeteWasLucky]

> So you don't want to say Federer beat top form nadal, and that nadal somehow became top form when the clay season started that coincidentally it's all clay surface :)

So since you are saying Nadal is top form now, will he be top form if he loses on grass or on HC the rest of the year?

I am waiting for an answer from TT and Whisper.
The question again: TT and Whisper say Nadal wasn't in top form when he lost to Federer three times in 2017 but he found his top form when clay started and it's not because nadal is playing on clay (lol).

So will he be top form if he loses on grass or on HC the rest of the year?

[Guypers]

Croatian euro-trash in Europe, Oz or Bklyn, same shitpile?!? LOL

[heyg...@gmail.com]

It'll be the knees...that drumbeat is already starting.

[kaennorsing]

Op dinsdag 27 juni 2017 19:01:04 UTC+2 schreef *skriptis:

> You do realize Nadal won IW, Canada, Cincinnati, US Open in 2013?

All but IW have yet to take place this year. I'm talking about what happened so far this year in comparison to the same periods in earlier years. When did Rafa have a better run than he has so far this year? Or something at least equal to it? 2005? Take out Fed and he's near perfect, close to unbeatable throughout the first 6 months. Including on hard, his toughest surface historically.

[TT]

Do I get credit for saying immediately after same as now?
...Rafa blew it, choked and gifted the match against best form ever
doped to the gills Federer. It was a sad day for tennis and for humanity.

[kaennorsing]

Op dinsdag 27 juni 2017 22:09:38 UTC+2 schreef TT:

You think Rafa made the mistake of giving Fed the secret to his doping regimine to thank him for opening his sportsdoping centre?

:))

[TT]

kaennorsing kirjoitti 27.6.2017 klo 19:51:
> Op dinsdag 27 juni 2017 18:27:33 UTC+2 schreef Whisper:
>
>> Come on, anyone can see Rafa v Stan FO final was much higher standard
>> from Rafa than AO.
>
> So Rafa is as good on other surfaces as he is on clay? Oh wow,

Stop playing stupid...

It's obvious that Rafa RG form was much higher standard RELATIVE to the
surface. It was very close to his best clay form if not the best.
...Rafa's best hard form was probably at USO 2010 and AO wasn't even
close to that.

[TT]

What the hell are you talking about...

Rafa has swept nearly every year the whole clay season PLUS he has
actually won hard court tournaments before it.

For example in 2009 he had won same amount of slams but more masters at
this point. His best year/form ever? Not even close.

As for 2013, Rafa had won more than now despite not even playing AO/Miami...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rafael_Nadal_career_statistics#Singles

[PeteWasLucky]

> I am waiting for an answer from TT and Whisper.
The question again: TT and Whisper say Nadal wasn't in top form when he lost to Federer three times in 2017 but he found his top form when clay started and it's not because nadal is playing on clay (lol).

So will he be top form if he loses on grass or on HC the rest of the year?

We are waiting

[TT]

Don't you know that a player can only be top form if he doesn't lose - I
learned that from Fedfans!

[PeteWasLucky]

> Don't you know that a player can only be top form if he doesn't lose

I see, now discussion is closed

[kaennorsing]

Op dinsdag 27 juni 2017 22:33:07 UTC+2 schreef TT:

> kaennorsing kirjoitti 27.6.2017 klo 20:58:
> > Op dinsdag 27 juni 2017 19:01:04 UTC+2 schreef *skriptis:
> >
> >> You do realize Nadal won IW, Canada, Cincinnati, US Open in 2013?
> >
> > All but IW have yet to take place this year. I'm talking about what happened so far this year in comparison to the same periods in earlier years. When did Rafa have a better run than he has so far this year? Or something at least equal to it? 2005? Take out Fed and he's near perfect, close to unbeatable throughout the first 6 months. Including on hard, his toughest surface historically.
> >
>
> What the hell are you talking about...
>
> Rafa has swept nearly every year the whole clay season PLUS he has
> actually won hard court tournaments before it.
>
> For example in 2009 he had won same amount of slams but more masters at
> this point. His best year/form ever? Not even close.

Not better than 2017, given the slam performances. Win + QF vs win + final. Which is better?

> As for 2013, Rafa had won more than now despite not even playing AO/Miami...

So it can't be better than 2017 given he made the finals of both of these. Being absent is not equal to making a slam final. So that's what I'm talking about. Objectively this is his best first 6 months of his career. Despite the 3 losses to the GOAT. Both in ATP points and the 2 slam results. Some minor hc title he may have won in previous years doesn't stack up to those.

[Gracchus]

Yes, you get credit for being consistently wrong and cockeyed whenever it comes to anything involving Rafa. At least it's more honest than what Whisper does.

[Whisper]

I'm not going back on anything. That was a great AO final - one of my
fave matches. Fed fans go nuts when it's suggested Rafa played even
better at FO - imo much better.

'On paper' Fed's chances are even better v Rafa at Wimbledon, given he
now has confidence of a slam win behind him. The big wildcard is Rafa's
form. Rafa is now super confident too after finally winning a slam
after 3 yrs, & what a way to win. Never looked more ferocious.

If you throw all that in to the mix, imo Rafa is the fave.

Hopefully it's fun/interesting slam to watch this yr.

: )

[Whisper]

I honestly would be happy for Fed to win the 8th. You're confusing me
with fanboys.

[Court_1]

I'm going to agree that his performance at the FO was at an even higher level than his AO level. He looked like 2008 Nadal out there at the FO but will that exceptional level translate to non-clay surfaces and to grass, a surface he hasn't been able to crack in over five years no matter how good he looked at the FO prior to Wimbledon?

I would also argue that although he looked insanely good at the FO, he was also in top form at the AO on a FASTER HC! Obviously, he won't look "as good" on a faster hc as he would on his beloved clay where he has no real competition! Who can touch him on clay when he's at his best or close to it? That's why I was laughing at the suggestion by some people on RST that Stan Wawrinka had ANY chance to beat Nadal in the final.

There's no question his confidence level and abilities on clay are higher than same on a grass surface so will he be able to play as fiercely at Wimbledon and better a guy like Federer (if they meet) who has much more expertise and confidence on a grass court surface and who has recently developed a successful game plan to counter Nadal's topspin-monkey attack and the confidence to execute it against Nadal the last three times they played this year? That's the question and I don't know the answer for sure.

Remember that Federer does lead their h2h at Wimbledon so he has that to draw some small measure of confidence from. He has to be saying to himself, "look, I beat this guy the past three times on faster and slower hc and I'm better than he is on a grass court and that W 2008 was down to the wire so I can do this!"

If you think that Nadal's blistering FO clay performance will negate Fed's confidence and better abilities on non-clay surfaces, I don't think so. Fed knows Nadal is untouchable on clay but Fed believes he's better off clay so he's able to separate that better now. I think what effed him up in the past vs Nadal was that he wasn't able to easily separate the clay beatdowns he received and he let that interfere with his head moving to other surfaces. But time is a funny thing and a great healer. I'm sure Fed's got a better grasp on the bigger picture now, i.e. on clay Nadal is untouchable but off clay Fed is better.

[Court_1]

On Tuesday, June 27, 2017 at 8:30:00 PM UTC-4, Whisper wrote:

> I honestly would be happy for Fed to win the 8th. You're confusing me
> with fanboys.

Your 10,000 anti-Federer posts say otherwise!

[Court_1]

But the point is that everybody knows Nadal is the greatest ever on clay. Off clay he's not the greatest ever and Federer has five more Wimbledon titles than he does and and seven more hc slams. That has to count for something especially when Federer has altered his game plan a little vs Nadal and has defeated him the last three times they played on different hard court speeds.

If you are going to tell me you are as confident about Nadal's ability to win against ATG Federer at Wimbledon and the USO as you are about his ability to do so at the FO, I'm calling bullshit on that.

[ed scheuert]

Federer has beaten Nadal the last *4* times they've played not 3. Just saying. I agree with you though.

[Court_1]

I know but when Federer beat Nadal in Basel in 2015 Federer wasn't displaying his more aggressive bh/ROS. Plus, in 2015 Nadal was at his all time worst.

[ed scheuert]

OK. Fair Enough. I think Fed's performance on grass last week indicates that he's back to fresh new-Fed mode with the aggressive BH/ROS he showed at AO and the spring masters tourneys. I agree with you that Rafa's beast-mode on clay this year isn't necessarily an indicator to his performance on faster surfaces going forward.

It should be an exciting Wimbledon. I've had the fortune of watching Federer, Nadal, and Djokovic live at Wimbledon at Centre Court and Court 1 over the last few years and I'm just as excited about this Wimbledon as the ones I got to attend.

[Whisper]

On 28/06/2017 2:51 AM, kaennorsing wrote:
> Op dinsdag 27 juni 2017 18:27:33 UTC+2 schreef Whisper:
>
>> Come on, anyone can see Rafa v Stan FO final was much higher standard
>> from Rafa than AO.
>

> So Rafa is as good on other surfaces as he is on clay? Oh wow, I didn't know that!


Neither did I. Why did you state it?


>But what explains the zero title defenses on other surfaces than clay, where he defends pretty much everything he plays? And shouldn't he posses the all time slam record >with about 40 slams in total by now? Instead of a measly 15?

He made 5 Wimbledon finals in a row no?

>
> Perhaps playing Fed, the tennis GOAT,

Fed has a legit claim to GOAT, but he was always very beatable by Rafa
no matter the surface. In fact I never considered it a true 'rivalry' -
way too 1-sided.

> at a hardcourt slam is a little more difficult to look as great against as vs Stan on clay? Particularly for Rafa, the clear clay GOAT? Could it be that?
>

That's about 5 to 10% of the equation. There is 90% more to understand
the full picture. If your 5-10% was the full picture then Fed would
have owned Rafa throughout his career, at least off clay.

[Whisper]

On 28/06/2017 3:01 AM, Guypers wrote:

> On Tuesday, June 27, 2017 at 12:23:47 PM UTC-4, PeteWasLucky wrote:
>>> Quit trolling...
>>
>> So you don't want to say Federer beat top form nadal, and that nadal somehow became top form when the clay season started that coincidentally it's all clay surface :)
>>

>> So since you are saying Nadal is top form now, will he be top form if he loses on grass or on HC the rest of the year?
>
> Fed at peak is in a higher quantum level than peak Laver, Sampras, Kneedal on grass is like Hydrogen!
>



Imo he's below all 3 of those guys, in absolute tennis terms.

[Whisper]

On 28/06/2017 3:15 AM, Court_1 wrote:
> On Tuesday, June 27, 2017 at 12:51:14 PM UTC-4, kaennorsing wrote:
>
>> Perhaps playing Fed, the tennis GOAT, at a hardcourt slam is a little more difficult to look as great against as vs Stan on clay? Particularly for Rafa, the clear clay GOAT? Could it be that?
>
>
> You know what, it doesn't matter what Federer accomplishes. These clueless souls on RST will find a way to diminish any great Federer feat. If Federer wins Wimbledon and thus establishes his GOATNESS even further, there will be a whole new barrel of reasons why it doesn't count or it's not as impressive according to these numbskulls.
>
> He's the friggin' GOAT you RST morons! If he wins this Wimbledon there will be ZERO doubt left. I really hope Federer wins this Wimbledon so you can all choke on your own bile. Please Fed, don't fuck up. You have one more big job to do!
>


Imo Rafa will beat Fed in straights if they meet & he plays with the
same intensity as FO final.

That's my honest opinion & not a troll post.

[Whisper]

On 28/06/2017 3:18 AM, Gracchus wrote:

> On Tuesday, June 27, 2017 at 9:36:21 AM UTC-7, Court_1 wrote:
>> On Tuesday, June 27, 2017 at 12:27:33 PM UTC-4, Whisper wrote:
>

>>> Come on, anyone can see Rafa v Stan FO final was much higher standard
>>> from Rafa than AO.
>

>> Ok, but if Nadal somehow loses early at Wimbledon or makes the final and loses there (especially to Federer) don't go claiming his form dropped again.
>
>> The truth is his form has been incredible all year. If he's making hc slam finals he's playing some of his best tennis. Also, you said repeatedly after the AO final that Nadal's level was high in that final and that Federer grew some balls and outplayed him for once. Don't go back on that now and look like a weasel.
>

> I knew that Whisp would eventually do that after the AO. He tried to play the good sport for a few weeks about how glad he was to see Federer step up, and all that bullshit. Then after a couple of months, it's Rafa was up 3-1 and let it slip away, Rafa was playing 50% of his FO level (as if the slow red clay weren't a factor in that??). Can't keep the weasel in its den forever I guess.
>

I made these same claims straight after AO final so no backflipping.

[Whisper]

On 28/06/2017 3:25 AM, Court_1 wrote:
> On Tuesday, June 27, 2017 at 1:18:39 PM UTC-4, Gracchus wrote:
>

>>> The truth is his form has been incredible all year. If he's making hc slam finals he's playing some of his best tennis. Also, you said repeatedly after the AO final that Nadal's level was high in that final and that Federer grew some balls and outplayed him for once. Don't go back on that now and look like a weasel.
>>
>> I knew that Whisp would eventually do that after the AO. He tried to play the good sport for a few weeks about how glad he was to see Federer step up, and all that bullshit. Then after a couple of months, it's Rafa was up 3-1 and let it slip away, Rafa was playing 50% of his FO level (as if the slow red clay weren't a factor in that??). Can't keep the weasel in its den forever I guess.
>

> Ha ha, exactly and he's so predictable. You could see him stewing in his juices and knew this new angle was coming to try and diminish Fed's great AO performance(one he told us over and over was a great and ballsy Fed performance!) Vomit!
>

So you want me to say Rafa wasn't up 3-1 in 5th set v Fed in AO final, &
his overall play wasn't at a much higher level in FO?

These seem like obvious conclusions. Why are they deemed radical &
insulting to Fed in rst?

[Whisper]

On 28/06/2017 3:25 AM, PeteWasLucky wrote:
>> So you don't want to say Federer beat top form nadal, and that nadal somehow became top form when the clay season started that coincidentally it's all clay surface :)
>
> So since you are saying Nadal is top form now, will he be top form if he loses on grass or on HC the rest of the year?
>
>

> I am waiting for an answer from TT and Whisper.
> The question again: TT and Whisper say Nadal wasn't in top form when he lost to Federer three times in 2017 but he found his top form when clay started and it's not because nadal is playing on clay (lol).
>

> So will he be top form if he loses on grass or on HC the rest of the year?




Don't have a crystal ball. Was Fed in top form when he lost to 40 yr
old Haas in 1st rd on grass last week? If not, why would Rafa be if he
suffers similar loss? You can't have different standards/rules for Fed
surely? That is not fair imo.

I treat Fed & Rafa by the same rules. If Fed loses 1st rd Wimbledon I
will not claim Fed was in top grass form. Will you?

I gave you my answer, let's hear yours.

[Whisper]

On 28/06/2017 3:36 AM, Guypers wrote:

> On Tuesday, June 27, 2017 at 1:25:05 PM UTC-4, Court_1 wrote:
>> On Tuesday, June 27, 2017 at 1:18:39 PM UTC-4, Gracchus wrote:
>>
>>>> The truth is his form has been incredible all year. If he's making hc slam finals he's playing some of his best tennis. Also, you said repeatedly after the AO final that Nadal's level was high in that final and that Federer grew some balls and outplayed him for once. Don't go back on that now and look like a weasel.
>>>
>>> I knew that Whisp would eventually do that after the AO. He tried to play the good sport for a few weeks about how glad he was to see Federer step up, and all that bullshit. Then after a couple of months, it's Rafa was up 3-1 and let it slip away, Rafa was playing 50% of his FO level (as if the slow red clay weren't a factor in that??). Can't keep the weasel in its den forever I guess.
>>
>> Ha ha, exactly and he's so predictable. You could see him stewing in his juices and knew this new angle was coming to try and diminish Fed's great AO performance(one he told us over and over was a great and ballsy Fed performance!) Vomit!
>

> Croatian euro-trash in Europe, Oz or Bklyn, same shitpile?!? LOL
>


Please abide by rst rules - play the ball not the man.

Be more careful in future.

[John Liang]

On Wednesday, June 28, 2017 at 7:51:57 PM UTC+10, Whisper wrote:
> On 28/06/2017 3:01 AM, Guypers wrote:
> > On Tuesday, June 27, 2017 at 12:23:47 PM UTC-4, PeteWasLucky wrote:
> >>> Quit trolling...
> >>
> >> So you don't want to say Federer beat top form nadal, and that nadal somehow became top form when the clay season started that coincidentally it's all clay surface :)
> >>
> >> So since you are saying Nadal is top form now, will he be top form if he loses on grass or on HC the rest of the year?
> >
> > Fed at peak is in a higher quantum level than peak Laver, Sampras, Kneedal on grass is like Hydrogen!
> >
>
>
>
> Imo he's below all 3 of those guys, in absolute tennis terms.
>

Actually who cares about this absolute term rubbish, of course it is like BOAT that sank long time ago.

[Whisper]

I beat you to it. My posts then are the same as now. For some reason
they are getting angry now?

[Whisper]

Answer posted. I'm waiting for your response.

You'll probably ignore it.

[John Liang]

On Wednesday, June 28, 2017 at 7:51:57 PM UTC+10, Whisper wrote:

> On 28/06/2017 3:01 AM, Guypers wrote:
> > On Tuesday, June 27, 2017 at 12:23:47 PM UTC-4, PeteWasLucky wrote:
> >>> Quit trolling...
> >>
> >> So you don't want to say Federer beat top form nadal, and that nadal somehow became top form when the clay season started that coincidentally it's all clay surface :)
> >>
> >> So since you are saying Nadal is top form now, will he be top form if he loses on grass or on HC the rest of the year?
> >
> > Fed at peak is in a higher quantum level than peak Laver, Sampras, Kneedal on grass is like Hydrogen!
> >
>
>
>
> Imo he's below all 3 of those guys, in absolute tennis terms.

And that higher in absolute term guy just could not defend a single non clay court title doesn't matter how hard he was picking his ass.

[Whisper]

That's pretty much what I asked in my response. This will hurt PWL's
brain for a bit.

[John Liang]

On Wednesday, June 28, 2017 at 8:02:48 PM UTC+10, Whisper wrote:
> On 28/06/2017 3:25 AM, PeteWasLucky wrote:
> >> So you don't want to say Federer beat top form nadal, and that nadal somehow became top form when the clay season started that coincidentally it's all clay surface :)
> >
> > So since you are saying Nadal is top form now, will he be top form if he loses on grass or on HC the rest of the year?
> >
> >
> > I am waiting for an answer from TT and Whisper.
> > The question again: TT and Whisper say Nadal wasn't in top form when he lost to Federer three times in 2017 but he found his top form when clay started and it's not because nadal is playing on clay (lol).
> >
> > So will he be top form if he loses on grass or on HC the rest of the year?
>
>
>
>
> Don't have a crystal ball.

Even if you do you don't know how to use it.

>
> I treat Fed & Rafa by the same rules.

Sure, the rule always change so are the acronyms. FO used to be worse than AO if it wasn't on clay remember. In Sampras' day FO wasn't the bluest of bluechip slam because Sampras couldn't be assed about or just lost to too many clowns in that slam was enough for you to declare it as the above.