Trump endorses halving of legal immigration

[Pelle Svanslös]

SAN FRANCISCO (CBS SF) — President Donald Trump’s push to cut legal
immigration to the United States in half is being met by opposition from
Silicon Valley leaders, economists, and even some Republicans senators,
who all say legal immigration is key to economic prosperity.

The Trump administration Wednesday endorsed the Reforming American
Immigration for a Strong Economy Act or RAISE Act, a Senate bill
introduced by two Republican senators earlier this year, that aims to
cut all U.S. immigration in half.

Perhaps nowhere else in the U.S. are business and political leaders more
vocally opposing the bill than in California, which has more immigrants
than any other state.

California, a state with 39 million people, has an immigrant population
of over 10 million, according to a report from Public Policy Institute
of California based on the 2015 U.S. Census Data, which is the most
recent data available. Most of those immigrants are documented.

Business leaders, especially those in California’s tech industry, say
the bill will stymie their ability to fill jobs and grow the U.S. economy.

The Information Technology Industry Council, which represents companies
including Amazon, Apple, Adobe, Dell, Facebook, Hewlett-Packard, Google,
Visa, Nokia, and Microsoft railed against the bill.

http://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2017/08/03/silicon-valley-raise-act-immigration-economy/

[Carey]

Excellent. Immigration is used by the few to drive down the wages of the many.

I've know too many engineers, for example, who've lost their jobs to H1b holders, who are then, as bob I think pointed out, more or less captives
of their employers.

[soccerfan777]

Yes. It is a problem more in the Northeast especially New Jersey and New York where h1b holders get paid peanuts like 45k per year.

But I think you are over generalizing.

[The Iceberg]

yep! it would be funny going back to the 80's and saying that future anarchists, lefties and other nutters would hate a guy that went totally against the status quo and spoke directly to the people and they back a woman that is backed by the Saudi govt, banks, globalist elite, big business, the establishment and mass media!

[Carey]

You gotta real point there.

[jdeluise]

On Sat, 05 Aug 2017 14:54:31 -0700, Carey wrote:

>> yep! it would be funny going back to the 80's and saying that future
>> anarchists, lefties and other nutters would hate a guy that went
>> totally against the status quo and spoke directly to the people and
>> they back a woman that is backed by the Saudi govt, banks, globalist
>> elite, big business, the establishment and mass media!
>
>
> You gotta real point there.

Yeah guys... Trump's tweets are enlightening works of art. I'm thinking
Bach/Mozart level stuff. And the honesty! It's so refreshing to hear a
guy just telling the truth every single night to hundreds of millions of
loyal Americans!

[Carey]

strawman much

[jdeluise]

On Sat, 05 Aug 2017 15:04:17 -0700, Carey wrote:

> strawman much

Sure. And yours wasn't?

[The Iceberg]

what would you like Trump to do for you to like him? and no stupid things, come on, tell us what he could do or could do better?

[soccerfan777]

Commit suicide?

[jdeluise]

On Sat, 05 Aug 2017 15:13:38 -0700, The Iceberg wrote:

> what would you like Trump to do for you to like him? and no stupid
> things, come on, tell us what he could do or could do better?

What has he accomplished?

Sorry to say but imo Trump may not be polished/PC, but at his core he's
not really very different from those who came before him and will
undoubtedly follow him.... that is, he's a selfish, shameless political
opportunist.

[The Iceberg]

so would you be this critical if Hillary was president? were you like this with Obama?

[jdeluise]

Yes. When I have I ever praised Hillary or Obama? I was a Sanders
supporter, primarily because I felt he actually stood for something and
believed in his ideas... I'm still not convinced he could have converted
his relatively one-track agenda into concrete policies though.

Clinton and Trump are shameless liars and shape-shifters. Obama was
essentially an extension of GWB besides Obamacare (which, if you'll read
back on rst I was never a big fan of, besides removing insurance pre-
existing conditions)

[TT]

Trump is much worse than those before him...

Luckily he's dumb as hell and his achievements will be mainly focused on
getting impeached and prosecuted.

[TT]

Obama wasn't a criminal, idiot & deplorable human being.

[jdeluise]

On Sun, 06 Aug 2017 02:18:25 +0300, TT wrote:

> Trump is much worse than those before him...
>
> Luckily he's dumb as hell and his achievements will be mainly focused on
> getting impeached and prosecuted.

Well, as long as he can be obstructed for the rest of his single term it
won't be too terrible :) I wouldn't bet on impeachment though (wouldn't
mind seeing it)...

[TT]

I'm close to 100% certain than Muller will find lots of stuff since he
seems to be really serious about it and competent. And I'm full 100%
certain that there's lots of stuff Trump can be caught on.

Another thing is when... these things may last long.

[Carey]

Heh

[Carey]

JD, which part of which post of mine do you see as strawmanning? TIA.

[bob]

On Sat, 5 Aug 2017 14:22:30 -0700 (PDT), Carey <carey...@yahoo.com>
wrote:

bernie nailed immigration in the campaign and his own party dissed
him, of course.

>I've know too many engineers, for example, who've lost their jobs to H1b holders, who are then, as bob I think pointed out, more or less captives
>of their employers.

absolutely. they work at ~1/2 or 1/3 pay for 10+yrs because it's
better than working for 1/10th wage in asia, phillipines, whatnot, and
the company plays them for slaves, and it affects american workers'
wages obviously too.

bob

[TT]

bob kirjoitti 6.8.2017 klo 2:50:
> bernie nailed immigration in the campaign and his own party dissed
> him, of course.

What's his own party?

[bob]

jed, you're having a bad day. i suggest you rest up and regroup next
week.

bob

[bob]

you're a sucker. surprised putin didn't hook you in.

bob

[bob]

mueller has already gone off scope and a grand jury has the ability to
research things that are WAY off the scope and original intent of the
investigation.

and after all this time, still no collusion. waste of time/money.

bob

[bob]

good pt. he was never really a democrat, he was too good for that.

bob

[TT]

bob kirjoitti 6.8.2017 klo 2:57:
> and after all this time, still no collusion.

What the hell are you talking about...

Trump Jr and Flynn had clear cut case of collusion.

"If it's what you say I love it especially later in the summer"

[bob]

On Sun, 6 Aug 2017 03:01:28 +0300, TT <as...@dprk.kp> wrote:

>bob kirjoitti 6.8.2017 klo 2:57:
>> and after all this time, still no collusion.
>
>What the hell are you talking about...
>Trump Jr and Flynn had clear cut case of collusion.

you're crazy.

>"If it's what you say I love it especially later in the summer"

bob

[TT]

bob kirjoitti 6.8.2017 klo 3:05:
> On Sun, 6 Aug 2017 03:01:28 +0300, TT <as...@dprk.kp> wrote:
>
>> bob kirjoitti 6.8.2017 klo 2:57:
>>> and after all this time, still no collusion.
>>
>> What the hell are you talking about...
>> Trump Jr and Flynn had clear cut case of collusion.
>
> you're crazy.
>

You don't follow news much do you...

>> "If it's what you say I love it especially later in the summer"
>

Quote from Trump Jr when he learns that Russians have dirt on Hillary.

[bob]

On Sun, 6 Aug 2017 03:30:47 +0300, TT <as...@dprk.kp> wrote:

>bob kirjoitti 6.8.2017 klo 3:05:
>> On Sun, 6 Aug 2017 03:01:28 +0300, TT <as...@dprk.kp> wrote:
>>
>>> bob kirjoitti 6.8.2017 klo 2:57:
>>>> and after all this time, still no collusion.
>>>
>>> What the hell are you talking about...
>>> Trump Jr and Flynn had clear cut case of collusion.
>>
>> you're crazy.
>>
>
>You don't follow news much do you...

what you're following isn't news.

>>> "If it's what you say I love it especially later in the summer"
>
>Quote from Trump Jr when he learns that Russians have dirt on Hillary.

which means what exactly? that the russians had dirt on hillary? that
hillary allowed herself to be hacked at home? that podesta fell for
phishing? perfect!

what do you think politicians do for a living? they DIG DIRT on their
opponents! are you really of this world?

collusion OTOH would be, "hey vladimir, if you can dig dirt on hillary
and it gets me elcted, i promise i will give you the technology to
our latest missile technology and for good measure a dirt cheap tdeal
on half our texas crude."

when you find THAT email, let me know.

you ever seen obamna, btw, telling medvedev, he can be more flexible
now that his last election is over? it's on youtube. "collusion???"

bob

[TT]

bob kirjoitti 6.8.2017 klo 3:37:
> On Sun, 6 Aug 2017 03:30:47 +0300, TT <as...@dprk.kp> wrote:
>
>> bob kirjoitti 6.8.2017 klo 3:05:
>>> On Sun, 6 Aug 2017 03:01:28 +0300, TT <as...@dprk.kp> wrote:
>>>
>>>> bob kirjoitti 6.8.2017 klo 2:57:
>>>>> and after all this time, still no collusion.
>>>>
>>>> What the hell are you talking about... Trump Jr and Flynn had
>>>> clear cut case of collusion.
>>>
>>> you're crazy.
>>>
>>
>> You don't follow news much do you...
>
> what you're following isn't news.
>
>>>> "If it's what you say I love it especially later in the
>>>> summer"
>>
>> Quote from Trump Jr when he learns that Russians have dirt on
>> Hillary.
>
> which means what exactly? that the russians had dirt on hillary?
> that hillary allowed herself to be hacked at home? that podesta fell
> for phishing? perfect!
>
> what do you think politicians do for a living? they DIG DIRT on
> their opponents! are you really of this world?
>

They don't do it with hostile foreign powers.

> collusion OTOH would be, "hey vladimir, if you can dig dirt on
> hillary and it gets me elcted,

This is perfectly matched on Trump Jr email exchange.
(Plus Trump asking Russia to hack Hillary)

> i promise i will give you the technology to our latest missile
> technology and for good measure a dirt cheap tdeal on half our texas
> crude."
>
> when you find THAT email, let me know.
>

And what do you think Russia expected for exchange?
To get rid of sanctions... (Which Trump btw tried to do immediately
after getting in office - do you even know of this fact?)

AND collaborating with Russia means they now have dirt on you:
"compromat" - which means you can not serve best interests of your
country. Putin could release any day lots of stuff on Trump and it would
be IMMEDIATELY end of Trump's presidency. Putin has Trump now in his
backpocket. (probably had even before the collusion as well because of
money laundering etc)

> you ever seen obamna, btw, telling medvedev, he can be more flexible
> now that his last election is over? it's on youtube. "collusion???"
>

That's just stating a fact, a president has more leeway on 2nd term.
Nothing to do with election meddling. Desperate much?

[bob]

On Sun, 6 Aug 2017 04:00:17 +0300, TT <as...@dprk.kp> wrote:

>bob kirjoitti 6.8.2017 klo 3:37:
>> On Sun, 6 Aug 2017 03:30:47 +0300, TT <as...@dprk.kp> wrote:
>>
>>> bob kirjoitti 6.8.2017 klo 3:05:
>>>> On Sun, 6 Aug 2017 03:01:28 +0300, TT <as...@dprk.kp> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> bob kirjoitti 6.8.2017 klo 2:57:
>>>>>> and after all this time, still no collusion.
>>>>>
>>>>> What the hell are you talking about... Trump Jr and Flynn had
>>>>> clear cut case of collusion.
>>>>
>>>> you're crazy.
>>>>
>>>
>>> You don't follow news much do you...
>>
>> what you're following isn't news.
>>
>>>>> "If it's what you say I love it especially later in the
>>>>> summer"
>>>
>>> Quote from Trump Jr when he learns that Russians have dirt on
>>> Hillary.
>>
>> which means what exactly? that the russians had dirt on hillary?
>> that hillary allowed herself to be hacked at home? that podesta fell
>> for phishing? perfect!
>>
>> what do you think politicians do for a living? they DIG DIRT on
>> their opponents! are you really of this world?
>>
>
>They don't do it with hostile foreign powers.

oh, so they do it with "friendly" foreign powers? lol.
and who's "hostile"?

>> collusion OTOH would be, "hey vladimir, if you can dig dirt on
>> hillary and it gets me elcted,
>
>This is perfectly matched on Trump Jr email exchange.
>(Plus Trump asking Russia to hack Hillary)

but there's NO promise of any return favor. and NO return favor has
been given.

>> i promise i will give you the technology to our latest missile
>> technology and for good measure a dirt cheap tdeal on half our texas
>> crude."
>>
>> when you find THAT email, let me know.
>>
>
>And what do you think Russia expected for exchange?

dunno, what was promised - that you can prove that is?

>To get rid of sanctions... (Which Trump btw tried to do immediately
>after getting in office - do you even know of this fact?)

i absolutely know of it. russian/ukranian battles are their own IMO.
americans are starting to want to butt in less to others problems, and
we all know we butt our noses in far too many places for political
(not humanitarian) reasons. trump did 1 military action of consequence
- bombed assad after chemical weapons on kids. pissed you off didn't
it TT? you'd far rather sanctions on russia for their squabbles in
ukraine. it's cause your hatred of russia is palpable. maybe legit.
but ours shouldn't be.

>AND collaborating with Russia means they now have dirt on you:
>"compromat" - which means you can not serve best interests of your
>country.

if they had true collusion it'd be CNN frontpage news for past 3-6
months. not this laughable stuff they show.

>Putin could release any day lots of stuff on Trump and it would
>be IMMEDIATELY end of Trump's presidency. Putin has Trump now in his
>backpocket. (probably had even before the collusion as well because of
>money laundering etc)

if putin did or did not dig dirt on hillary/podesta, and released it
pre election it was his own doing! i'm sure trump is pleased with it,
but without anything in writing saying trump promised favors pre
election for this info, it is nothing. putin is free to do what he
wants, if hillary was dumb enough to allow her self to be hacked, she
did it to herself really.

don't you understand that the USA and all gov'ts prefer some
candidates over others? trump preferred le pen so what?

>> you ever seen obamna, btw, telling medvedev, he can be more flexible
>> now that his last election is over? it's on youtube. "collusion???"
>>
>That's just stating a fact, a president has more leeway on 2nd term.
>Nothing to do with election meddling. Desperate much?

i'm ashamed a little that the TT of the past decade, a man who
survived (sort of) nadal's bad knees and wrist, is so frazzled over
this.

bob

[TT]

bob kirjoitti 6.8.2017 klo 3:37:
> what do you think politicians do for a living? they DIG DIRT on their
> opponents! are you really of this world?

Bob's defence on Watergate scandal.

Nixon was just being a corrupt politician - nothing wrong with that!!!

[bob]

On Sun, 6 Aug 2017 04:13:53 +0300, TT <as...@dprk.kp> wrote:

>bob kirjoitti 6.8.2017 klo 3:37:
>> what do you think politicians do for a living? they DIG DIRT on their
>> opponents! are you really of this world?
>
>Bob's defence on Watergate scandal.

?

i'm talking about investigating your opponents. you think hillary
didn't investigate bernie and trump? you silly boy.

>Nixon was just being a corrupt politician - nothing wrong with that!!!

nixon never ordered the break ins, he was shocked when he found out.
but yeah, he surely F'd up after that, because of the personality he
had to begin with, and got what he deserved.

and btw, nixon and hillary are like twins in personality.

bob

[Carey]

On Saturday, August 5, 2017 at 6:17:36 PM UTC-7, bob wrote:

>
> and btw, nixon and hillary are like twins in personality.
>
> bob

More than a little truth there, and I watched the Watergate hearings live.

Senator Sam Ervin was great.

[TT]

Doesn't matter, backdoor meetings with someone who stole info on your
opponent is still collaboration. And doing it with foreign power is even
worse.

>>> collusion OTOH would be, "hey vladimir, if you can dig dirt on
>>> hillary and it gets me elcted,
>>
>> This is perfectly matched on Trump Jr email exchange.
>> (Plus Trump asking Russia to hack Hillary)
>
> but there's NO promise of any return favor. and NO return favor has
> been given.
>

I only established at this point the digging dirt part. You seem to agree.

>>> i promise i will give you the technology to our latest missile
>>> technology and for good measure a dirt cheap tdeal on half our texas
>>> crude."
>>>
>>> when you find THAT email, let me know.
>>>
>>
>> And what do you think Russia expected for exchange?
>
> dunno, what was promised - that you can prove that is?
>
>> To get rid of sanctions... (Which Trump btw tried to do immediately
>> after getting in office - do you even know of this fact?)
>
> i absolutely know of it. russian/ukranian battles are their own IMO.

You absolutely know nothing about it. Trump tried to lift sanctions
without getting anything in reply from Russia.

Googling first link about it:

http://nordic.businessinsider.com/trump-wanted-to-lift-russia-sanctions-days-after-taking-office-2017-6?r=US&IR=T

[bob]

On Sat, 5 Aug 2017 18:26:21 -0700 (PDT), Carey <carey...@yahoo.com>
wrote:

i was a bit too young for it live, but i've watched all the
president's men about a dozen times. hope it's a reasonable portrayal!

bob

[TT]

bob kirjoitti 6.8.2017 klo 4:17:
> On Sun, 6 Aug 2017 04:13:53 +0300, TT <as...@dprk.kp> wrote:
>
>> bob kirjoitti 6.8.2017 klo 3:37:
>>> what do you think politicians do for a living? they DIG DIRT on their
>>> opponents! are you really of this world?
>>
>> Bob's defence on Watergate scandal.
>
> ?
>
> i'm talking about investigating your opponents. you think hillary
> didn't investigate bernie and trump? you silly boy.
>

Watergate was digging dirt with criminal means, same as Trump collaboration.

>> Nixon was just being a corrupt politician - nothing wrong with that!!!
>
> nixon never ordered the break ins, he was shocked when he found out.

You actually believe that? Geez.

And Trump didn't know either that Russia hacked anything. They were just
having tee with the Russians, wishing happy New Year by phone and
discussing about abortion. LOL

[TT]

Carey kirjoitti 6.8.2017 klo 4:26:
> On Saturday, August 5, 2017 at 6:17:36 PM UTC-7, bob wrote:
>
>>
>> and btw, nixon and hillary are like twins in personality.
>>
>> bob
>
>
> More than a little truth there,

Perhaps, but much better comparison would be between Nixon and Trump.

[Carey]

No. Nixon was nothing like Trump, and I've been around for both, I'm sorry to say.

[TT]

You should also watch No Way Out (1987).

[bob]

collaboration, exactly!

btw, you should really check the difference between collusion and
collaboration.

>>>> collusion OTOH would be, "hey vladimir, if you can dig dirt on
>>>> hillary and it gets me elcted,
>>>
>>> This is perfectly matched on Trump Jr email exchange.
>>> (Plus Trump asking Russia to hack Hillary)
>>
>> but there's NO promise of any return favor. and NO return favor has
>> been given.
>>
>
>I only established at this point the digging dirt part. You seem to agree.

i absolutely agree that podesta was phished, and hillary and the DNC
likely hacked.

but i see no collusion, and until you can prove - or even make me
believe - it exists, well....

>>>> i promise i will give you the technology to our latest missile
>>>> technology and for good measure a dirt cheap tdeal on half our texas
>>>> crude."
>>>>
>>>> when you find THAT email, let me know.
>>>>
>>>
>>> And what do you think Russia expected for exchange?
>>
>> dunno, what was promised - that you can prove that is?
>>
>>> To get rid of sanctions... (Which Trump btw tried to do immediately
>>> after getting in office - do you even know of this fact?)
>>
>> i absolutely know of it. russian/ukranian battles are their own IMO.
>
>You absolutely know nothing about it. Trump tried to lift sanctions
>without getting anything in reply from Russia.

what exactly would you expect in return? if russia and the ukraine
are having an internal conflict, the USA should stay out of it IMO
unless it directly affects us. and who's to say that ukraine's right?

>Googling first link about it:
>http://nordic.businessinsider.com/trump-wanted-to-lift-russia-sanctions-days-after-taking-office-2017-6?r=US&IR=T

bob

[TT]

Well Trump probably has around 60 points lower IQ than Nixon/Hillary.

But you're probably still wrong when it comes to personality. Nixon
thought he could do anything as does Trump.

[bob]

On Sun, 6 Aug 2017 04:44:29 +0300, TT <as...@dprk.kp> wrote:

>bob kirjoitti 6.8.2017 klo 4:17:
>> On Sun, 6 Aug 2017 04:13:53 +0300, TT <as...@dprk.kp> wrote:
>>
>>> bob kirjoitti 6.8.2017 klo 3:37:
>>>> what do you think politicians do for a living? they DIG DIRT on their
>>>> opponents! are you really of this world?
>>>
>>> Bob's defence on Watergate scandal.
>>
>> ?
>>
>> i'm talking about investigating your opponents. you think hillary
>> didn't investigate bernie and trump? you silly boy.
>>
>
>Watergate was digging dirt with criminal means, same as Trump collaboration.

again - collaboration is not illegal; collusion is. don't mix them up.
i should've let you rattle on a few months using the wrong word but
i'll correct you early on.

collusion, IMO, would necessitate promising - or actually doing - a
favor for russia to the USA's detriment. not doing a mutually
beneficial "favor" btw.

>>> Nixon was just being a corrupt politician - nothing wrong with that!!!
>>
>> nixon never ordered the break ins, he was shocked when he found out.
>
>You actually believe that? Geez.

there are tapes that actually prove it, but it doesn't matter to me,
i'm no nixon defender or fan.

>And Trump didn't know either that Russia hacked anything.

i don't care if he knew. i care if he did anything to promote it or
promised a favor that was in the USA's detriment. that would be a big
problem, and if he did that, he should be ousted. i'm quite sure he
didn't, and i'm even more sure that it won't be proven. of course if
congress hates him that much, anyone can be impeached for any reason.
just like any war against WMD can be started for any reason.

> They were just having tee with the Russians, wishing happy New Year by phone and
>discussing about abortion. LOL

tea.

bob

[TT]

Read the fucking link for once and shut up...

[bob]

i think trump came into power thinking that an adversarial relation
with russia was no longer in the usa's best interests and acted
accordingly. i myself couldn't figure out why we've carried on this
long to begin with. while germany and japan build cars, hospitals,
roads and bullet trains.

bob

[bob]

costner as the mole? seen it twice. nice love story. :-)

bob

[TT]

bob kirjoitti 6.8.2017 klo 4:59:
> On Sun, 6 Aug 2017 04:44:29 +0300, TT <as...@dprk.kp> wrote:
>
>> bob kirjoitti 6.8.2017 klo 4:17:
>>> On Sun, 6 Aug 2017 04:13:53 +0300, TT <as...@dprk.kp> wrote:
>>>
>>>> bob kirjoitti 6.8.2017 klo 3:37:
>>>>> what do you think politicians do for a living? they DIG DIRT on their
>>>>> opponents! are you really of this world?
>>>>
>>>> Bob's defence on Watergate scandal.
>>>
>>> ?
>>>
>>> i'm talking about investigating your opponents. you think hillary
>>> didn't investigate bernie and trump? you silly boy.
>>>
>>
>> Watergate was digging dirt with criminal means, same as Trump collaboration.
>
> again - collaboration is not illegal; collusion is. don't mix them up.
> i should've let you rattle on a few months using the wrong word but
> i'll correct you early on.
>
> collusion, IMO, would necessitate promising - or actually doing - a
> favor for russia to the USA's detriment. not doing a mutually
> beneficial "favor" btw.
>

Just because one doesn't give anything in exchange for stolen property
doesn't make receiving it ok.

>>>> Nixon was just being a corrupt politician - nothing wrong with that!!!
>>>
>>> nixon never ordered the break ins, he was shocked when he found out.
>>
>> You actually believe that? Geez.
>
> there are tapes that actually prove it, but it doesn't matter to me,
> i'm no nixon defender or fan.
>
>> And Trump didn't know either that Russia hacked anything.
>
> i don't care if he knew. i care if he did anything to promote it or
> promised a favor that was in the USA's detriment. that would be a big
> problem, and if he did that, he should be ousted. i'm quite sure he
> didn't, and i'm even more sure that it won't be proven. of course if
> congress hates him that much, anyone can be impeached for any reason.
> just like any war against WMD can be started for any reason.
>

I guess Trump wanted sanctions off out of goodness of his heart then...

Rest of the free world & US congress didn't agree.

>> They were just having tee with the Russians, wishing happy New Year by phone and
>> discussing about abortion. LOL
>
> tea.
>
> bob
>

I know how it's spelled...

[bob]

nixon and hillary have the same paranoid power thirsty personalities.
trump waited til age 70 to run for office. trump may have personality
probs, but far different form nixary.

bob

[bob]

On Sun, 6 Aug 2017 05:13:10 +0300, TT <as...@dprk.kp> wrote:

>bob kirjoitti 6.8.2017 klo 4:59:
>> On Sun, 6 Aug 2017 04:44:29 +0300, TT <as...@dprk.kp> wrote:
>>
>>> bob kirjoitti 6.8.2017 klo 4:17:
>>>> On Sun, 6 Aug 2017 04:13:53 +0300, TT <as...@dprk.kp> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> bob kirjoitti 6.8.2017 klo 3:37:
>>>>>> what do you think politicians do for a living? they DIG DIRT on their
>>>>>> opponents! are you really of this world?
>>>>>
>>>>> Bob's defence on Watergate scandal.
>>>>
>>>> ?
>>>>
>>>> i'm talking about investigating your opponents. you think hillary
>>>> didn't investigate bernie and trump? you silly boy.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Watergate was digging dirt with criminal means, same as Trump collaboration.
>>
>> again - collaboration is not illegal; collusion is. don't mix them up.
>> i should've let you rattle on a few months using the wrong word but
>> i'll correct you early on.
>>
>> collusion, IMO, would necessitate promising - or actually doing - a
>> favor for russia to the USA's detriment. not doing a mutually
>> beneficial "favor" btw.
>>
>
>Just because one doesn't give anything in exchange for stolen property
>doesn't make receiving it ok.

both parties wanted all the information they could get without
breaking the law themselves in getting it. these 2 big parties work
like that.

if they happened to be given a stolen gun taken from the clinton
residence that had hillary's fingerprints on a murder weapon, surely
it's fair game.

this is not a court of law where a person is being tried for a crime,
and must follow due process, this is an election where we'd like to
know what's going on with our PUBLIC officials and it's all public's
perception of who they'd like to vote for, and all information is
relevant.

if TRUMP himself or he ordered an illegal hacking or break in, that'd
be far different. but that's not what happened.

>>>>> Nixon was just being a corrupt politician - nothing wrong with that!!!
>>>>
>>>> nixon never ordered the break ins, he was shocked when he found out.
>>>
>>> You actually believe that? Geez.
>>
>> there are tapes that actually prove it, but it doesn't matter to me,
>> i'm no nixon defender or fan.
>>
>>> And Trump didn't know either that Russia hacked anything.
>>
>> i don't care if he knew. i care if he did anything to promote it or
>> promised a favor that was in the USA's detriment. that would be a big
>> problem, and if he did that, he should be ousted. i'm quite sure he
>> didn't, and i'm even more sure that it won't be proven. of course if
>> congress hates him that much, anyone can be impeached for any reason.
>> just like any war against WMD can be started for any reason.
>>
>
>I guess Trump wanted sanctions off out of goodness of his heart then...

no, i think he wanted a fresh slate with russia and thought maybe
lifting sanctions could start that process.

>Rest of the free world & US congress didn't agree.

US congress, and hillary, agreed on WMD too silly.

>>> They were just having tee with the Russians, wishing happy New Year by phone and
>>> discussing about abortion. LOL
>>
>> tea.
>>
>> bob
>>
>
>I know how it's spelled...

tee time.
drink tea.

bob

[TT]

You think? Russia isn't a big partner for USA as other countries Trump
has been pissing on. He's been ripping every partner of USA while loving
Russia.

You are that naive to buy Trump's 'why can't we be friends with Russia'
and not suspect lifting sanctions was his part of the deal/compromat?

> i myself couldn't figure out why we've carried on this
> long to begin with. while germany and japan build cars, hospitals,
> roads and bullet trains.
>

Well Europe and US congress don't agree.

[TT]

What's the big deal with that film, one mole? Now the president & his
cabinet are all moles...

Best joke of all was Carter Page, Michael Flynn, Paul Manafort & Rex
Tillerson. If that staff wasn't decided by Kremlin...

[TT]

So were they just having tea and talking abortions? Flynn at least didn't.

[Carey]

On Saturday, August 5, 2017 at 7:36:26 PM UTC-7, TT wrote:
> bob kirjoitti 6.8.2017 klo 5:11:

> > On Sun, 6 Aug 2017 04:51:07 +0300, TT wrote:
> >
> >> bob kirjoitti 6.8.2017 klo 4:30:
> >>> On Sat, 5 Aug 2017 18:26:21 -0700 (PDT), Carey

> >>> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> On Saturday, August 5, 2017 at 6:17:36 PM UTC-7, bob wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> and btw, nixon and hillary are like twins in personality.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> bob
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> More than a little truth there, and I watched the Watergate hearings live.
> >>>> Senator Sam Ervin was great.
> >>>
> >>> i was a bit too young for it live, but i've watched all the
> >>> president's men about a dozen times. hope it's a reasonable portrayal!
> >>>
> >>> bob
> >>>
> >>
> >> You should also watch No Way Out (1987).
> >
> > costner as the mole? seen it twice. nice love story. :-)
> >
> > bob
> >
>
> What's the big deal with that film, one mole? Now the president & his
> cabinet are all moles...
>
> Best joke of all was Carter Page, Michael Flynn, Paul Manafort & Rex
> Tillerson. If that staff wasn't decided by Kremlin...

You are right. The other wing of the Party, called Democrats, hide their
criminal associations much better than does Mr. Trump, and are much smoother/
"classier" as well. That the Ruling Class's real issue with Mr. Trump:
he makes the grift apparent, and that's why he's better for the country, now,
than the Clinton Cabal. Embrace the slimy grift!

[TT]

bob kirjoitti 6.8.2017 klo 5:23:
> both parties wanted all the information they could get without
> breaking the law themselves in getting it.

That's rubbish. Russia did the hacks.

[PeteWasLucky]

> what exactly would you expect in return? if russia and the ukraine
are having an internal conflict, the USA should stay out of it IMO
unless it directly affects us. and who's to say that ukraine's right?

I am not really getting into any of these discussions but you are stupidly defending Trump.
Are you saying that the norm will be seeing our political parties competing to become friends with the Russians to get their help being elected and the price will always be nothing?

[TT]

-But they discussed about abortion.
-Everybody does it.
-Why can't we be friends with Russia?
-There's no proof that Trump promised anything back, it's just a
coincidence that Trump tried to lift sanctions.
-Also a coincidence that Trump criticized all US allies but never a bad
word about Russia.
-Russia didn't hack anything, and Trump didn't know if they did.
-Just a coincidence that Trump hired a Kremlin dream team for his
campaign and cabinet.
-What's wrong with selling houses to Russians?
-They were just being friendly with Russia, hence all the meetings, it's
called diplomacy. (No need for such diplomacy with other nations)
-What's wrong with meeting in secret and lying about it?
-Yeah, they might have been KGB but what's wrong with that - why can't
we be friends with KGB???

...And various other excuses. One has to be a total potato head to
defend Trump team on this.

[*skriptis]

The Iceberg <iceber...@gmail.com> Wrote in message:
> On Saturday, 5 August 2017 22:22:32 UTC+1, Carey wrote:
>> On Saturday, August 5, 2017 at 2:09:33 PM UTC-7, Pelle Svanslös wrote:
>> > SAN FRANCISCO (CBS SF) ? President Donald Trump?s push to cut legal
>> > immigration to the United States in half is being met by opposition from
>> > Silicon Valley leaders, economists, and even some Republicans senators,
>> > who all say legal immigration is key to economic prosperity.
>> >
>> > The Trump administration Wednesday endorsed the Reforming American
>> > Immigration for a Strong Economy Act or RAISE Act, a Senate bill
>> > introduced by two Republican senators earlier this year, that aims to
>> > cut all U.S. immigration in half.
>> >
>> > Perhaps nowhere else in the U.S. are business and political leaders more
>> > vocally opposing the bill than in California, which has more immigrants
>> > than any other state.
>> >
>> > California, a state with 39 million people, has an immigrant population
>> > of over 10 million, according to a report from Public Policy Institute
>> > of California based on the 2015 U.S. Census Data, which is the most
>> > recent data available. Most of those immigrants are documented.
>> >
>> > Business leaders, especially those in California?s tech industry, say
>> > the bill will stymie their ability to fill jobs and grow the U.S. economy.
>> >
>> > The Information Technology Industry Council, which represents companies
>> > including Amazon, Apple, Adobe, Dell, Facebook, Hewlett-Packard, Google,
>> > Visa, Nokia, and Microsoft railed against the bill.
>> >
>> > http://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2017/08/03/silicon-valley-raise-act-immigration-economy/
>>
>>
>>
>> Excellent. Immigration is used by the few to drive down the wages of the many.
>>
>> I've know too many engineers, for example, who've lost their jobs to H1b holders, who are then, as bob I think pointed out, more or less captives
>> of their employers.
>
> yep! it would be funny going back to the 80's and saying that future anarchists, lefties and other nutters would hate a guy that went totally against the status quo and spoke directly to the people and they back a woman that is backed by the Saudi govt, banks, globalist elite, big business, the establishment and mass media!
>


Irony if the century really.
--


----Android NewsGroup Reader----
http://usenet.sinaapp.com/

[bob]

i think he was tired of the USA being pissed on by germany and japan.

>You are that naive to buy Trump's 'why can't we be friends with Russia'
>and not suspect lifting sanctions was his part of the deal/compromat?

and you're so hateful toward russia you want them to be the usa's
eternal enemy - so long as the usa pays for the cost of that.

>> i myself couldn't figure out why we've carried on this
>> long to begin with. while germany and japan build cars, hospitals,
>> roads and bullet trains.
>>
>Well Europe and US congress don't agree.

bob

[*skriptis]

PeteWasLucky <waleed...@gmail.com> Wrote in message:

You make it as being "friends with Russians" is something bad.
Why do you think being enemies with Russia should be the norm?

Trump campaigned saying he'd like to improve relations, naturally
saying if possible, and he won. People approved of it, obviously.


Now, I don't think I've ever seen you writing something about why
would that be wrong or harmful for America, to have good
relations with Russia. It's a valid point of view, but you have
to make your case, using some arguments.

Your default position seems to be that relations must be bad, and
that any deviation from it, can not possibly come from American
point of view, let alone having US interests on mind, in fact it
must be some form of Russian subversion.

Isn't that a classic case of prejudice and bigoted way of thinking?

[bob]

On Sun, 6 Aug 2017 01:09:28 -0700 (PDT), PeteWasLucky
<waleed...@gmail.com> wrote:

>> what exactly would you expect in return? if russia and the ukraine
>are having an internal conflict, the USA should stay out of it IMO
>unless it directly affects us. and who's to say that ukraine's right
>

>I am not really getting into any of these discussions but you are stupidly defending Trump.

it's not a defense of trump at all. it's a shifting in the cold war
thought process that i've though about long before trump ever got into
politics. it's dumb.

>Are you saying that the norm will be seeing our political parties competing to become friends with the Russians to get their help being elected and the price will always be nothing?

i'm saying that while germany, rest of major western european
countries, and japan benefit from the "cold war" the USA (and russia)
don't. and there's no reason to continue on another 70yrs like that.

if you disagree, that's fine, we have some military brass that loves
wars.

bob

[bob]

On Sat, 5 Aug 2017 19:41:32 -0700 (PDT), Carey <carey...@yahoo.com>

the devil you know... :-)

bob

[TT]

I don't think Trump gets tired with being pissed on...

[TT]

*skriptis kirjoitti 6.8.2017 klo 15:31:
> PeteWasLucky <waleed...@gmail.com> Wrote in message:
>>> what exactly would you expect in return? if russia and the ukraine
>> are having an internal conflict, the USA should stay out of it IMO
>> unless it directly affects us. and who's to say that ukraine's right?
>>
>> I am not really getting into any of these discussions but you are stupidly defending Trump.
>> Are you saying that the norm will be seeing our political parties competing to become friends with the Russians to get their help being elected and the price will always be nothing?
>
>
> You make it as being "friends with Russians" is something bad.
> Why do you think being enemies with Russia should be the norm?
>

Having secret meetings with KGB and lying about it equals being friendly?

Get the fuck out.

[TT]

bob kirjoitti 6.8.2017 klo 15:32:
> i'm saying that while germany, rest of major western european
> countries, and japan benefit from the "cold war" the USA (and russia)
> don't. and there's no reason to continue on another 70yrs like that.

Get your history and politics straight...

The cold war had ended long ago, the sanctions are not beneficial to
Europe at all.

Russia cyberattacks US elections which benefits Trump and then Trump
says 'Let's be friends with Russia" - no conflict of interest seen anywhere?

[bob]

On Sun, 6 Aug 2017 16:13:12 +0300, TT <as...@dprk.kp> wrote:

>bob kirjoitti 6.8.2017 klo 15:32:
>> i'm saying that while germany, rest of major western european
>> countries, and japan benefit from the "cold war" the USA (and russia)
>> don't. and there's no reason to continue on another 70yrs like that.
>
>Get your history and politics straight...
>
>The cold war had ended long ago, the sanctions are not beneficial to
>Europe at all.

you think the mentality of the cold war ended 26 yrs ago? OMG. no -
you're trying to keep it alive forever! that's the problem!!

>Russia cyberattacks US elections which benefits Trump and then Trump
>says 'Let's be friends with Russia" - no conflict of interest seen anywhere?

unless trump promised, and delivered, and trump actually COLLUDED - no
i don't see a problem if russia preferred to damage of hillary's
campaign.

they can like/dislike any candidate they wish, just like we do.

bob

[TT]

Don't you understand that Russia helped Trump and then Trump tried to
help Russia...

And I'm sure they were just having slumber parties with those Russians.

[bob]

all i care about is what's in the usa's best interest. if helping
russia and/or no longer supporting cold war mentality is mutually
beneficial as general policy, it has nothing to do with "favors." it's
a favor to OURSELF and i'd be for it.

>And I'm sure they were just having slumber parties with those Russians.

you're sure of nothing, you have no proof.

bob

[TT]

At least it was very unkind from Team trump to have slumber parties with
KGB but not inviting Mossad, MI6 and BND. How rude.

[TT]

bob kirjoitti 6.8.2017 klo 16:44:
>> And I'm sure they were just having slumber parties with those Russians.

> you're sure of nothing, you have no proof.

Well except confirmed emails...

[calim...@gmx.de]

On Sunday, August 6, 2017 at 2:31:26 PM UTC+2, *skriptis wrote:
> PeteWasLucky <waleed...@gmail.com> Wrote in message:
> > > what exactly would you expect in return? if russia and the ukraine
> > are having an internal conflict, the USA should stay out of it IMO
> > unless it directly affects us. and who's to say that ukraine's right?
> >
> > I am not really getting into any of these discussions but you are stupidly defending Trump.
> > Are you saying that the norm will be seeing our political parties competing to become friends with the Russians to get their help being elected and the price will always be nothing?
>
>
> You make it as being "friends with Russians" is something bad.

> Why do you think being enemies with Russia should be the norm? ...


Being enemy of autocratic agressive nuclear powers hopefully will always be the norm.


Max