UK Brexit negotiator wants European Union 'wholly torn down'

[Pelle Svanslös]

The newest member of Theresa May’s Brexit negotiating team has been
filmed calling for the destruction of the European Union, The
Independent can reveal.

In a speech to a right-wing think tank, minister Steve Baker said the EU
should be “wholly torn down”, before branding it an “obstacle” to world
peace and “incompatible” with a free society.

Tory MPs warned Mr Baker’s appointment could now risk the UK’s ability
to secure good Brexit terms, while Labour said it was “extraordinary”
and raised a major question about the Prime Minister’s judgement.

The comments are likely to prove embarrassing for Ms May as she heads
into meetings with European leaders this week, including Angela Merkel
and Emmanuel Macron.

In the video Mr Baker tells a cheering audience: “I think Ukip and the
Better Off Out campaign lack ambition. I think the European Union needs
to be wholly torn down.”

Filmed at an event by The Libertarian Alliance in 2010, he goes on to
argue that the EU has “succeeded in raising economic nationalism to a
continental scale”.

The Wycombe MP, who played a lead role in the Leave campaign, adds: “It
was meant to defeat economic nationalism, it is therefore a failure in
its own terms.

“If we wish to devolve power to the lowest possible level, make it
accountable and move on into a free society, then it’s clearly incompatible.

“What I want is free trade and peace among all the nations of Europe as
well as the world and in my view the European Union is an obstacle to that.”

The cabinet and wider Tory party is split over the EU, with many MPs
pushing a weakened Prime Minister for a more jobs-focussed approach to
withdrawal, while Brexiteers are said to have threatened resignations if
she changes tack.

Backbench Tories have also said they are working with other parties to
try and soften the hardline approach to Brexit Ms May took into the
election.

After seeing the video, one Conservative MP told The Independent: “It
just reveals what the extreme Brexiteers have been about all along.

“It’s not enough to take the UK out of the EU. They want the entire
thing to fall apart.

“How is it possible to negotiate a ‘deep and special relationship’ with
the EU, when you have ministers who want the institutions they are
negotiating with to disintegrate?”

Another MP said: “This is only going to further embitter relations. It
doesn’t help our chances of getting a deal.”

Shadow Brexit Secretary Keir Starmer, who has called for a more
co-operative approach to Brexit, said: “there should be no place” for Mr
Baker’s views at the Department for Exiting the European Union.

He added: “It is extraordinary that Theresa May has put such an extreme
Brexiteer at the heart of the Government.

“This poses real questions about her judgement and the Government’s
desire to build the collaborative, cooperative future partnership we
need with the EU.”

Liberal Democrat Brexit spokesperson Tom Brake attacked Ms May for
appointing a Brexit minister “dedicated to destroying the EU”.

The issue will hang over the Prime Minister as she meets German
Chancellor Ms Merkel and French President Mr Macron at the G20 in
Hamburg on Friday, whom she has both assured the UK wants a “deep and
special relationship” with the EU.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-european-union-eu-steve-baker-theresa-may-wholly-torn-down-libertarian-alliance-a7820721.html

:)

[calim...@gmx.de]

The EU should do the same with the UK which the USA did with the CSA when they seceeded.


Max

[The Iceberg]

Totally agree with him, at last somebody with a sensible good idea of Brexit. The EUSSR is like having the USA system, BUT the President is selected, not elected, what a joke.

[The Iceberg]

LOL bring it on, it would be hilarious cos we'd end up owning you lot.

[kaennorsing]

Op dinsdag 4 juli 2017 09:01:38 UTC+2 schreef The Iceberg:

Not just the president. NObody is elected in the EUSSR. In essence far worse than the US system (which is a fascist war-machine) on many levels.

[Pelle Svanslös]

Nonsense.

--
“Donald Trump is the weak man’s vision of a strong man.”
-- Charles Cooke

[The Iceberg]

no, the truth.

[Brian W Lawrence]

<http://www.europarl.europa.eu/aboutparliament/en/20150201PVL00021/Previous-elections>

It/they don't have much power, but they ARE elected.



---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
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[Gerrit Rijtoopje]

On Tue, 4 Jul 2017 06:29:09 -0700 (PDT), The Iceberg
<iceber...@gmail.com> wrote:

>> >
>> > Not just the president. NObody is elected in the EUSSR.
>>
>> Nonsense.
>
>no, the truth.

Actually, it's howling nonsense. Never heard of MEP's?

[The Iceberg]

On Tuesday, 4 July 2017 17:06:20 UTC+1, Brian W Lawrence wrote:
> On 04/07/2017 14:29, The Iceberg wrote:
> > On Tuesday, 4 July 2017 13:23:25 UTC+1, Pelle Svanslös wrote:
>
> >>> Not just the president. NObody is elected in the EUSSR.
> >>
> >> Nonsense.
> >
> > no, the truth.
>
>
> <http://www.europarl.europa.eu/aboutparliament/en/20150201PVL00021/Previous-elections>
>
> It/they don't have much power, but they ARE elected.

that moron presidente Juncker isn't.

[The Iceberg]

no it's the truth, eg. can you even name your one?

[calim...@gmx.de]

Of course he is elected. Your Queen isn't though. And what is with the House of Lords, dummy?
That a BRIT is complaining about lack of a democratic legitimation in the EU is truly hilarious!!!


Max

[calim...@gmx.de]

Lol, even in two world wars you had to run to your American cousins whining and crying for help. And even the Russkis had to help!

And Germany was virtually alone. I think we should invade the UK and punish the Brexiteer elites. One of Merkel Assistant Deputies can be Interim Governor in England for example.


Max

[Guypers]

You started it? Italy, Japan?

[calim...@gmx.de]

No, I didn't start it.

Max

[Gerrit Rijtoopje]

On Tue, 4 Jul 2017 10:03:11 -0700 (PDT), The Iceberg

<iceber...@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Tuesday, 4 July 2017 17:26:40 UTC+1, Gerrit Rijtoopje wrote:
>> On Tue, 4 Jul 2017 06:29:09 -0700 (PDT), The Iceberg
>> <iceber...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> >> >
>> >> > Not just the president. NObody is elected in the EUSSR.
>> >>
>> >> Nonsense.
>> >
>> >no, the truth.
>>
>> Actually, it's howling nonsense. Never heard of MEP's?
>
>no it's the truth, eg. can you even name your one?

Yes, and you have just contradicted yourself.

[The Iceberg]

you Germans started it and lost to us Brits, twice.

[The Iceberg]

On Tuesday, 4 July 2017 18:20:49 UTC+1, calim...@gmx.de wrote:
> On Tuesday, July 4, 2017 at 7:02:39 PM UTC+2, The Iceberg wrote:
> > On Tuesday, 4 July 2017 17:06:20 UTC+1, Brian W Lawrence wrote:
> > > On 04/07/2017 14:29, The Iceberg wrote:
> > > > On Tuesday, 4 July 2017 13:23:25 UTC+1, Pelle Svanslös wrote:
> > >
> > > >>> Not just the president. NObody is elected in the EUSSR.
> > > >>
> > > >> Nonsense.
> > > >
> > > > no, the truth.
> > >
> > >
> > > <http://www.europarl.europa.eu/aboutparliament/en/20150201PVL00021/Previous-elections>
> > >
> > > It/they don't have much power, but they ARE elected.
> >
> > that moron presidente Juncker isn't.
>
>
> Of course he is elected. Your Queen isn't though. And what is with the House of Lords, dummy?

who by??? LOL, what joke. Mind you, you would be defending a centralised unelected body run by Germany that reigns over the whole of Europe, just like what your pal Hitler wanted.

> That a BRIT is complaining about lack of a democratic legitimation in the EU is truly hilarious!!!

you wouldn't get it, thicko, cos our system works and has done for centuries, it wasn't just invented by a bunch of utter liars in the 60's lying to the people about it being a trade organisation. You have your EUSSR and we'll keep out of it, just like Churchill said, the guy that whooped you to bits in WW2.

[The Iceberg]

oh stop lying, you have no idea.

[calim...@gmx.de]

We lost WW1 to France, the UK and the US.
And WW2 to Russia and the US. France and the UK played only a minor role. The big boys let France and the UK to take part a little bit.

Max

[Guypers]

You and Japan still lost the war, bit of a joke,since they have a very strong economies!

[calim...@gmx.de]

On Wednesday, July 5, 2017 at 4:04:59 PM UTC+2, The Iceberg wrote:
> On Tuesday, 4 July 2017 18:20:49 UTC+1, calim...@gmx.de wrote:
> > On Tuesday, July 4, 2017 at 7:02:39 PM UTC+2, The Iceberg wrote:
> > > On Tuesday, 4 July 2017 17:06:20 UTC+1, Brian W Lawrence wrote:
> > > > On 04/07/2017 14:29, The Iceberg wrote:
> > > > > On Tuesday, 4 July 2017 13:23:25 UTC+1, Pelle Svanslös wrote:
> > > >
> > > > >>> Not just the president. NObody is elected in the EUSSR.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Nonsense.
> > > > >
> > > > > no, the truth.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > <http://www.europarl.europa.eu/aboutparliament/en/20150201PVL00021/Previous-elections>
> > > >
> > > > It/they don't have much power, but they ARE elected.
> > >
> > > that moron presidente Juncker isn't.
> >
> >
> > Of course he is elected. Your Queen isn't though. And what is with the House of Lords, dummy?
>
> who by???

Nominated by the European Council, elected by the European Parliament.
The EC consists of the prime ministers of all EU members. Prime ministers are elected by national parliaments. National parlaments are elected by the peoples.

> LOL, what joke. Mind you, you would be defending a centralised unelected body run by Germany that reigns over the whole of Europe, just like what your pal Hitler wanted.

In what way "run by" Germany?

> > That a BRIT is complaining about lack of a democratic legitimation in the EU is truly hilarious!!!
>

> you wouldn't get it, thicko, cos our system works and has done for centuries.

Without democratic legitimation.

> it wasn't just invented by a bunch of utter liars in the 60's lying to the people about it being a trade organisation. You have your EUSSR and we'll keep out of it, just like Churchill said, the guy that whooped you to bits in WW2.

Which influence will be left for the UK after Brexit?
You will lose your permanent UN Security Council within the next 10 years.
It will be US, EU, China, Russia, India, Brazil who call the shots in the future. Maybe also Indonesia, Pakistan, Nigeria in 20 years from now. The UK will be in the same league as Argentina, Mexico, Kongo, Australia, Canada, Thailand, Egypt ...


Max

[Brian W Lawrence]

Fake news, alternative facts, lol.

The US didn't get involved until after Pearl Harbor in December 1941 and
had limited 'boots on the ground' only in North Africa and later Italy
before D-Day in June 1944. That was nearly 5 years after the war began.

The USN did get involved and the US Army Air Force (USAAF) too, but only
in partnership with the RN & RAF which had been 'holding the fort' more
or less alone since Dunkirk (May/June 1940). For example the US Army Air
Force took on the more dangerous role of daytime bombing, while the RAF
Bomber Command carried out bombing raids at night. They were
complimentary roles.

[calim...@gmx.de]

Er, where exactly were Brit boots on European ground before D-Day?

> That was nearly 5 years after the war began.
>
> The USN did get involved and the US Army Air Force (USAAF) too, but only
> in partnership with the RN & RAF which had been 'holding the fort' more
> or less alone since Dunkirk (May/June 1940). For example the US Army Air
> Force took on the more dangerous role of daytime bombing, while the RAF
> Bomber Command carried out bombing raids at night.

The UK was the junior partner.
Today most Germans don't even know that British boots played any role in 1944/45 on the continent. The RAF's role is well-known of course. But else?

Max

[Brian W Lawrence]

Italy (Sep '43).

>> That was nearly 5 years after the war began.
>>
>> The USN did get involved and the US Army Air Force (USAAF) too, but only
>> in partnership with the RN & RAF which had been 'holding the fort' more
>> or less alone since Dunkirk (May/June 1940). For example the US Army Air
>> Force took on the more dangerous role of daytime bombing, while the RAF
>> Bomber Command carried out bombing raids at night.
>
>
> The UK was the junior partner.
> Today most Germans don't even know that British boots played any role in 1944/45
> on the continent. The RAF's role is well-known of course. But else?

On D-Day, there were 5 code-named Normandy beaches, 2 were used by US
forces (Omaha & Utah), & 2 by UK (Gold & Sword). The 5th (Juno) was used
by Canadian troops. The offical estimate is that 57,500 American troops
landed on the beaches, 75,215 British & Canadians, plus 15,500 Americans
and 7,900 Brits parachuted inland. Having established beachheads the
various units were reinforced by additional troops. By the end of June
(3 weeks later) about 875,000 troops had disembarked.

The overall commander for the invasion was General Eisenhower, but all
other members of the SHAEF (except for US General Omar Bradley) were
British (5 in total, 2 Army, 2 RAF & 1 RN). That structure and the
underlying units remained much the same through to the German surrender
in 1945.

I doubt that many Brits are aware of much of the history either, unless
family members were involved. I think that WW2 is/was covered in school
history lessons, but that was after my schooldays, and few school-age
kids are interested in history. Stock answer on TV quiz shows to any
history question, 'that was before my time'. Also true of any other
topic too.

Feel free to wind up Iceberg though :-)

[Gerrit Rijtoopje]

On Wed, 5 Jul 2017 07:05:22 -0700 (PDT), The Iceberg

<iceber...@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Tuesday, 4 July 2017 21:45:51 UTC+1, Gerrit Rijtoopje wrote:
>> On Tue, 4 Jul 2017 10:03:11 -0700 (PDT), The Iceberg
>> <iceber...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> >On Tuesday, 4 July 2017 17:26:40 UTC+1, Gerrit Rijtoopje wrote:
>> >> On Tue, 4 Jul 2017 06:29:09 -0700 (PDT), The Iceberg
>> >> <iceber...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > Not just the president. NObody is elected in the EUSSR.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Nonsense.
>> >> >
>> >> >no, the truth.
>> >>
>> >> Actually, it's howling nonsense. Never heard of MEP's?
>> >
>> >no it's the truth, eg. can you even name your one?
>>
>> Yes, and you have just contradicted yourself.
>
>oh stop lying, you have no idea.

About what?

[bmo...@nyx.net]

He was proved wrong about whether EU reps are elected, so he quickly "shifted the goalposts" to a different question. Typical.