Choker Halep!

[The Iceberg]

Dear oh dear.

[Federer Fanatic]

On Sat, 10 Jun 2017 08:04:51 -0700 (PDT), The Iceberg <iceber...@gmail.com> wrote:
| Dear oh dear.

Bought that bag of icecubes yet?

FF

[Court_1]

On Saturday, June 10, 2017 at 11:04:53 AM UTC-4, The Iceberg wrote:
> Dear oh dear.

Yep, Halep is a choker and she's very vulnerable to power players. Always has been.

[TT]

She didn't really choke...

[Court_1]

Sure she did. She was up 3-0 in the second. There's that missing ingredient with Halep where she can't cross the big finish line. She had the draw from heaven, with no Serena, no Sharapova and she was up a set and 3-0 and couldn't close it out. I doubt she'll ever win a slam.

Credit to Ostapenko though. She seems like a Seles type player with some real talent and grit. I hope she can maintain some consistency.

[Federer Fanatic]

No. She's a defensive player. Without killer shots it's hard to beat big hitters like Jelena Stapenko.

FF

[calim...@gmx.de]

Halep is better than 95 % of all power players.

Max

[Whisper]

On 11/06/2017 1:04 AM, The Iceberg wrote:
> Dear oh dear.
>

It's not her fault. Most modern players are like her, Radwanska &
Stosur. They could lose to just about anybody despite holding elite
world ranking. Halep had golden chances to wrap this up easily but was
scared of winning, seemed to have no idea how to win a match.

The great champions like Graf are truly exceptional.

Let's hope Ostapenko is more a of true pro player than the current field
& plays like the players of old.

Tiriac seems to be correct in saying women are 'stealing' money from the
men's game? Good luck to them making millions from this kind of
performance, but they should realize they are pretty lucky to get away
with it.

: )







---
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
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[Court_1]

Well she isn't better than Ostapenko because she's slamless and Ostapenko isn't.

[Whisper]

Yes, this match sums it up perfectly. She's exactly like Radwanska -
mental basketcase.

I guess they are rewarded with million$ so no real incentive to perform
on the biggest occasions? Radwanska has won 26 mil$ in prizemoney
alone. It's like winning the lottery.

[Whisper]

Yep 100% choke. She had pts to lead 6-4 4-0, led 3-1 in 3rd, pts to
lead 4-1 etc.

Classic textbook case of being 'scared to win'. They should show these
matches to young kids so they know what being 'scared to win' looks like.

[Court_1]

Tell that to Chirs Evert who won 18 slams with her mostly defensive style. It's that Halep is missing that champion's mentality. She was three games away from the title in the second and blew it. There's no other way to spin it.

[Whisper]

Agreed. The game needs a real woman player who is hungry & not scared to
win. There are only 2 - Serena who is pregnant & Sharapova.

I was angry I had to pick Halep v Stosur for the finals tip, but the
game is that bad those 2 chokers were the best picks on paper. Disgraceful.

[Whisper]

Halep is a choker 1st class, like Radwanska.

We shouldn't talk about them until they win a slam or 2.

[Whisper]

Correct. Let's hope she's not another Muguruza & actually has some
ambition.

[Gracchus]

On Saturday, June 10, 2017 at 8:28:48 AM UTC-7, Whisper wrote:

> Agreed. The game needs a real woman player who is hungry & not scared to
> win. There are only 2 - Serena who is pregnant & Sharapova.

Is it really "fear of winning" though? To me it seems more like a chronic "beta" mindset. They believe in themselves enough to be world-class or top 10, but don't believe they're a slam-winning caliber of player.

Players like Graf, Seles, Serena, or Sharapova had that belief even in their early teens, but most never get there. They resign themselves to the mindset that runner-up is good enough, so it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. I could see this with Wozniacki and Jankovic playing Serena for example. It's disgusting to watch their body-language say, "Yes, I know I'm your poodle and that's okay. I'm happy just to bask in the glow of a real champion."

[Federer Fanatic]

In an era when power players were few and the tennis racquets did not permit dynamic play.


FF

[TT]

Sure she's better than Ostapenko.

[Whisper]

On 11/06/2017 1:41 AM, Gracchus wrote:
> On Saturday, June 10, 2017 at 8:28:48 AM UTC-7, Whisper wrote:
>
>> Agreed. The game needs a real woman player who is hungry & not scared to
>> win. There are only 2 - Serena who is pregnant & Sharapova.
>
> Is it really "fear of winning" though? To me it seems more like a chronic "beta" mindset. They believe in themselves enough to be world-class or top 10, but don't believe they're a slam-winning caliber of player.

Yes, I mean 'fear of winning' at the slam semi or final level. They
really need to overcome that fear & see it as a golden opportunity &
privilege.

>
> Players like Graf, Seles, Serena, or Sharapova had that belief even in their early teens, but most never get there.

They all had dominant fathers guiding them though, so maybe there's
something there?

> They resign themselves to the mindset that runner-up is good enough, so it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. I could see this with Wozniacki and Jankovic playing Serena for example. It's >disgusting to watch their body-language say, "Yes, I know I'm your poodle and that's okay. I'm happy just to bask in the glow of a real champion."
>

Exactly, & really it's not good enough for this great sport with so many
fans wanting to see ultimate efforts. We all want to feel satisfied at
the end of a slam that everyone has put in 100% & the best player on the
day won, not the player who choked less than the opponent. The men's AO
is a perfect example of what I expect in slams - everyone trying to play
their best & leaving it all out there.

Like her or hate her, Sharapova is an example to other players on how to
conduct yourself & approach matches. It's not that she's fabulously
talented, but she has the mind of a real champion. She sure as fuck
doesn't need the money so I really respect her.

[Whisper]

Nope.

[TT]

Whisper kirjoitti 10.6.2017 klo 19:00:
> On 11/06/2017 1:55 AM, TT wrote:
>> Court_1 kirjoitti 10.6.2017 klo 18:23:
>>> On Saturday, June 10, 2017 at 11:18:05 AM UTC-4, calim...@gmx.de wrote:
>>>> On Saturday, June 10, 2017 at 5:11:49 PM UTC+2, Court_1 wrote:
>>>>> On Saturday, June 10, 2017 at 11:04:53 AM UTC-4, The Iceberg wrote:
>>>>>> Dear oh dear.
>>>>>
>>>>> Yep, Halep is a choker and she's very vulnerable to power players.
>>>>> Always has been.
>>>>
>>>> Halep is better than 95 % of all power players.
>>>
>>> Well she isn't better than Ostapenko because she's slamless and
>>> Ostapenko isn't.
>>>
>>
>> Sure she's better than Ostapenko.
>>
>
> Nope.
>
>

Yes she is...

[Whisper]

I would never tip Halep, Stosur, Radwanska to win any slam going
forward. I may tip Ostapenko. That puts her ahead already.

[jdeluise]

On Sun, 11 Jun 2017 02:26:13 +1000, Whisper wrote:

> I may tip Ostapenko. That puts her ahead already.

But you tipped Tomic, Roddick... probably puts her behind :(

[Gracchus]

Well Roddick did win a slam.

[heyg...@gmail.com]

Graf, Seles, Serena and Sharapova all won their first slam final at 16/17 playing the best player on tour. That has to give them a "nothing less than winning is good enough" mentality. Of course, Sanchez did it as well, but she just wasn't as good as Graf/Seles, so belief isn't going to matter.

Of course this win doesn't put Ostapenko in that category, but we'll see what she's made of soon enough. My guess is a Mary Pierce level career (who she plays like more than Seles IMO).

[Whisper]

I'm hopeful because she's so young (1st unseeded FO champ in 80 yrs?).
We don't want more 1 hit wonders like Muguruza.

[*skriptis]

Court_1 <olymp...@yahoo.com> Wrote in message:

Chris Evert lol.

Who could have blown her off the court with wooden racquets on
clay? Laughable.

She won big titles while young, in a much. Smaller pool of
players, and as soon as you win early on your confidence grows.
Maybe Halep in the 70s and with slam title from an early age
develops champion's mentality. Maybe not.

But she's certainly at disadvantage in this power play era with
graphite racquets. Evert had it easier.

And likewise, Christ Evert in modern era becomes Radwanska.


Navratilova had some outstanding qualities and weapons, Evert not
so much.










--

[*skriptis]

Whisper <beav...@ozemail.com> Wrote in message:

Soon the tours will be split, and nobody will steal from anyone.
The current situation is unbearable and as soon as you see guys
in charge talking about it you know the changes are about to
arrive.

If they earn it, I don't have a problem with women being paid
triple as men.



--

[jdeluise]

As has Ostapenko.... Whisper's later tips may have been the kiss of death
for poor Roddick :)

[heyg...@gmail.com]

Evert won half her slams in the 80s...

[SliceAndDice]

First title of any kind, and she apparently showed very little nerves, so very commendable. Fun fact: she was born on the same day that the last person to win his first career title at a slam picked up his first one, Guga at the French.

[*skriptis]

heyg...@gmail.com Wrote in message:

> Evert won half her slams in the 80s...
>

And the other half?
--

[The Iceberg]

She doesn't have the killers shots, she just randomly happened to be a set and 3-0 up!

[The Iceberg]

Good thought-provoking post! This is possible as I'd say Wozzi is very much like this.

[bob]

On Sat, 10 Jun 2017 08:11:46 -0700 (PDT), Court_1
<olymp...@yahoo.com> wrote:

>On Saturday, June 10, 2017 at 11:04:53 AM UTC-4, The Iceberg wrote:
>> Dear oh dear.
>
>Yep, Halep is a choker and she's very vulnerable to power players. Always has been.

then why'd ya pick her? :-)

ok ok she did better than konta.

bob

[bob]

On Sat, 10 Jun 2017 10:17:41 -0500, Federer Fanatic
<TheRelen...@nospam.invalid> wrote:

>On Sat, 10 Jun 2017 18:14:05 +0300, TT <as...@dprk.kp> wrote:
>| Court_1 kirjoitti 10.6.2017 klo 18:11:

>|> On Saturday, June 10, 2017 at 11:04:53 AM UTC-4, The Iceberg wrote:
>|>> Dear oh dear.
>|>
>|> Yep, Halep is a choker and she's very vulnerable to power players. Always has been.
>|>
>|

>| She didn't really choke...
>
>No. She's a defensive player. Without killer shots it's hard to beat big hitters like Jelena Stapenko.

totally agree. in the end, halep loses IMO cause she causes no damage
to an opponent, and somewhere in the match the opponents get wind of
it and take control and confidence.

like a boxer who never throws a punch, just dances around making you
miss. eventually you step in closer, unafraid, and take him out.

bob

[bob]

but when a great offenseive player or 2 came along, she was toast. and
she was the best of the best in consistency. and not tally defensive
either. she hit corners, she had good groundies.

we really should decipher between baseliners and bumrooters, not the
same thing to me. defensive retrievers are 1 thing, attacking ground
strokes quite another.

bob

[bob]

On Sat, 10 Jun 2017 08:18:04 -0700 (PDT), calim...@gmx.de wrote:

>On Saturday, June 10, 2017 at 5:11:49 PM UTC+2, Court_1 wrote:
>> On Saturday, June 10, 2017 at 11:04:53 AM UTC-4, The Iceberg wrote:
>> > Dear oh dear.
>>
>> Yep, Halep is a choker and she's very vulnerable to power players. Always has been.
>

>Halep is better than 95 % of all power players.

true, she's an excellent defensive player. but at that level,
eventually nearly aways it's almost good enough but not quite. how
many times do we see a tentative retriever almost win? often.

bob

[Patrick Kehoe]

Ostapenko was quite smart actually from a tactical sense or at least in a POSITIONAL sense. If you can get back Halep first driving ball - which a LOT of players have difficulty with - she sort of backs herself off the front foot. And with a hitting like Ostapenko, she just launches something deep and starts you running right away - which is PRECISELY what Halep does to 95% of the field. It's just that THIS GIRL can actually hit it for a clean winner - many times- off the initial ball, she strikes it with such venom. Well, Halep's entire game just gets blunted right there. It's just that it takes TREMENDOUS hitting off both wings to blunt Halep in that manner. But this kid can do it, even from extreme angles she can rip it through Halep's coverages. Which impressed me!

P

[Whisper]

On 11/06/2017 4:15 AM, The Iceberg wrote:
> She doesn't have the killers shots, she just randomly happened to be a set and 3-0 up!
>

Had points to lead 4-0 too, then led 3-1 in 3rd before losing last 5 games.

No killer instinct by the looks.

[Whisper]

On 11/06/2017 4:44 AM, bob wrote:
> On Sat, 10 Jun 2017 08:11:46 -0700 (PDT), Court_1
> <olymp...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> On Saturday, June 10, 2017 at 11:04:53 AM UTC-4, The Iceberg wrote:
>>> Dear oh dear.
>>
>> Yep, Halep is a choker and she's very vulnerable to power players. Always has been.
>
> then why'd ya pick her? :-)

This was a tough one to pick - a field of chokers. I personally went
with experience so Halep v Stosur, which may have happened had Ostapenko
not entered as she beat them both in 3 setters.

: )

[Court_1]

You can call Halep more consistent but she isn't better or greater than Ostapenko when Ostapenko can waltz into a slam final for her first time and kill it to win the title while Halep remains slamless.

The only question now is whether Ostapenko will be the real deal and can continue to win slams or if she will be the next one-slam wonder Muguruza. If Ostapenko can improve her serve and she can continue being motivated she'll be brutal to have to face. Her tennis really does look a lot like Seles'.

[Court_1]

On Saturday, June 10, 2017 at 1:42:34 PM UTC-4, heyg...@gmail.com wrote:

> Evert won half her slams in the 80s...

Evert could win multiple slams today in this field, are you kidding me? She'd blow through this field. She had a phenomenal champion's mentality with nerves of steel, one of the best of all time and that's why she was a favorite of mine when I was a kid. Because it showed me that you could do anything if you put your mind to it. If she were in Halep's position today, believe me she wouldn't have lost. They showed Evert in the crowd for the Halep-Ostapenko match and she must have been cringing at Halep's lack of balls.

[calim...@gmx.de]

Yes, lack of balls, that's the problem with many women ...


Max

[*skriptis]

calim...@gmx.de Wrote in message:

:)
--

[bob]

i hear there are "women" with balls if you prefer max.

bob

[bob]

On Sun, 11 Jun 2017 11:19:05 +1000, Whisper <beav...@ozemail.com>
wrote:

>On 11/06/2017 4:44 AM, bob wrote:
>> On Sat, 10 Jun 2017 08:11:46 -0700 (PDT), Court_1
>> <olymp...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On Saturday, June 10, 2017 at 11:04:53 AM UTC-4, The Iceberg wrote:
>>>> Dear oh dear.
>>>
>>> Yep, Halep is a choker and she's very vulnerable to power players. Always has been.
>>
>> then why'd ya pick her? :-)
>
>This was a tough one to pick - a field of chokers. I personally went
>with experience so Halep v Stosur, which may have happened had Ostapenko
>not entered as she beat them both in 3 setters.
>
>: )

i was going to also pick halep, only reason i didn't was because i've
picked her a few times before and she lost early. on paper, she had
the best chance coming in.

bob