Steffi and major tournaments 1987-96 (The Slump explained)

[Calimero]

Steffi in major tournaments (slams, YEC, Olympics) 1987-96:

1) 1987 - April 1990 (begin blackmail scandal):
Steffi wins 12, loses 3 finals, missed 2 finals.
12 - 3 - 2
winning percentage vs. top10: 89 %

2) May 1990 - April 1993 (Seles stabbing):
Steffi wins 2, loses 5 finals, misses 8 finals.
2 - 5 - 8 (without Seles 1 - 2 - 8)
winning percentage vs. top10: 56 % (without Seles 60 %)

3) May 1993 - 1996:
Steffi wins 12, loses 2 finals, misses 3 finals.
12 - 2 - 3
winning percentage vs. top10: 94 %


The 90/93 period was really bad by Steffi's usual standards (she still won the two most important tournaments, Wimbledon 91 & 92).
And Seles had nothing to do with it!

Patriotic US fans' heads will explode!!



Max

[StephenJ]

On 5/30/2018 2:59 PM, Calimero wrote:
> Steffi in major tournaments (slams, YEC, Olympics) 1987-96:

Slams Max.

As bob posted, 2/12 before stabbing, 4/4 after.

Seles Slump.

The facts just ring your bell every time eh?


--
for the total eradication of the imperialists, the Chinese
people are willing to endure the first U.S. nuclear
strike. All it is is a big pile of people dying.

- Mao Tse-Tung, 1958

[Calimero]

On Wednesday, May 30, 2018 at 10:15:00 PM UTC+2, StephenJ wrote:
> On 5/30/2018 2:59 PM, Calimero wrote:
> > Steffi in major tournaments (slams, YEC, Olympics) 1987-96:
>
> Slams Max.

Major tournaments, Jaros, major tournaments.

Steffi won the Olympics in 1988.
BUT lost in the 1992 Olympic final (Capriati) - during The Slump.

Steffi won the YEC in 1987, 1989, 1993, 1995, 1996, lost in 1988 (Shriver).
BUT lost in the YEC in 1990 (Sabatini), 1991 (Novotna), 1992 (McNeil) - during The Slump (not even one win!).

So in YEC/Olympics Steffi was 0-4 during The Slump.
BUT 6-1 before and after that.
And NO Seles anywhere involved.

You must really HATE this, right?
Good, very good ...


Max

[guypers]

Steffi a good #2!

[heyg...@gmail.com]

Now Djokovic has weighed in:

“I love Serena. All the superlatives and beautiful words...she deserves it.

She’s the greatest female athlete of all time.”

Novak Djokovic on Serena Williams and her return.

[Calimero]

On Wednesday, May 30, 2018 at 10:15:00 PM UTC+2, StephenJ wrote:

> On 5/30/2018 2:59 PM, Calimero wrote:
> > Steffi in major tournaments (slams, YEC, Olympics) 1987-96:
>

> Slams ...
>
> ... , 2/12 before stabbing, 4/4 after.


2/11. Losses to Garrison, Sabatini, Novotna, Sanchez (2), Navratilova (plus 3 to Seles).

But 19/25 pre-blackmail (from 1987 on) and post-stabbing (until 1996). Losses to Navratilova (2), Sanchez (2), Pierce, McNeil.

So 2 slam wins but 6 losses to non-Seles players during Slump time.
But 19 slam wins and just only 6 losses to non-Seles players pre- and post-Slump.

2-6 and 19-6. And Seles nothing to do with it.

I know, I'm so mean. Exposing you as a dimwit for everybody to see ...


Max

[soccerfan777]

Why do you keep doing this? Jaros is never gonna be convinced because he hates Steffi. He has been even before Serena picked up a racket.

[soccerfan777]

How is this news? Do you think any sane player will not call Serena a GOAT and risk being called a racist?

[Calimero]

His name is Joker for a reason.
Is too young to have watched Steffi play. Has ceibs. And was asked by US media. What do you expect? Imagine him telling the truth and saying "But Steffi was better, more beautiful, less fat, and nicer" ...


Max

[Calimero]

I don't want to convince Jaros, Bob, Gully, Coppy, HeyGuys, PWL. They hate Steffi the same way they hated Lendl and Henin.

Lendl, Graf, Henin were the ultimate threats to US supremacy.
Lendl against McEnroe, Connors.
Steffi against Evert, Navi.
Henin against the Willies.
See the pattern?

So US media shot at them at every opportunity. And gullible US fans followed them until today.


Max

[bob]

On Wed, 30 May 2018 14:16:10 -0700 (PDT), Calimero
<calim...@gmx.de> wrote:

>On Wednesday, May 30, 2018 at 10:53:50 PM UTC+2, soccerfan777 wrote:
>> On Wednesday, May 30, 2018 at 3:25:58 PM UTC-5, Calimero wrote:
>> > On Wednesday, May 30, 2018 at 10:15:00 PM UTC+2, StephenJ wrote:
>> > > On 5/30/2018 2:59 PM, Calimero wrote:
>> > > > Steffi in major tournaments (slams, YEC, Olympics) 1987-96:
>> > >
>> > > Slams Max.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Major tournaments, Jaros, major tournaments.
>> >
>> > Steffi won the Olympics in 1988.
>> > BUT lost in the 1992 Olympic final (Capriati) - during The Slump.
>> >
>> > Steffi won the YEC in 1987, 1989, 1993, 1995, 1996, lost in 1988 (Shriver).
>> > BUT lost in the YEC in 1990 (Sabatini), 1991 (Novotna), 1992 (McNeil) - during The Slump (not even one win!).
>> >
>> > So in YEC/Olympics Steffi was 0-4 during The Slump.
>> > BUT 6-1 before and after that.
>> > And NO Seles anywhere involved.
>> >
>> > You must really HATE this, right?
>> > Good, very good ...
>> >
>> >
>> > Max
>>
>> Why do you keep doing this? Jaros is never gonna be convinced because he hates Steffi. He has been even before Serena picked up a racket.
>
>
>I don't want to convince Jaros, Bob, Gully, Coppy, HeyGuys, PWL. They hate Steffi the same way they hated Lendl and Henin.

steffi was my favorite. lendl not my absolute favorite, but one of my
top. henin, neutral.

>Lendl, Graf, Henin were the ultimate threats to US supremacy.
>Lendl against McEnroe, Connors.
>Steffi against Evert, Navi.
>Henin against the Willies.
>See the pattern?
>So US media shot at them at every opportunity. And gullible US fans followed them until today.

bob

[heyg...@gmail.com]

If the threat to US players premise were true more people would dislike Fed...

[heyg...@gmail.com]

These players being effusive about Serena is just good debunking of the nonsense that she’s unliked, etc., and that players revere Graf.

[Calimero]

On Thursday, May 31, 2018 at 9:17:42 AM UTC+2, heyg...@gmail.com wrote:
> If the threat to US players premise were true more people would dislike Fed...

You are playing dumb, right?

Which current US player is Fed threatening? No one.
Which former US player is he threatening? Samoras? No more, that ship has sailed. Before that many US media indeed tried to play down Feddy‘s achievements („weak era“, „H2H against Nadal“).
If in 10 or 15 years a new American great emerges, maybe closing in on Fed‘s slam record they will crawl back from under their rock an attack his legacy.

Lendl, on the other hand, was a clear and present danger for the supremacy of McEnroe and Connors. Maybe the two biggest assholes tennis ever saw - but US citizens. So the Commie had to be attacked, again and again.

Same with Justine Henin. Threatened the Williams supremacy. So attack her. Who blew up the so-called „hand incident“ and her retirement in the Mauresmo AO final beyond any proportion? US media and no one else.

Steffi suffered the same fate. Seles stabbing, „little Sauerkraut“, „not giving back“, „poor handshakes“, „no competition“ - you name it. And all that came almost exclusively from one direction - the US of A.



Max

[Calimero]

On Thursday, May 31, 2018 at 9:20:47 AM UTC+2, heyg...@gmail.com wrote:
> These players being effusive about Serena is just good debunking of the nonsense that she’s unliked, etc., and that players revere Graf.

What to you expect foreign players to say about Serena to US media?

Remember Nastase recently, when he criticized Serena and praised Steffi?
Well, google it ...


Max

[Pelle Svanslös]

On 31/05/2018 13.39, Calimero wrote:
> On Thursday, May 31, 2018 at 9:17:42 AM UTC+2, heyg...@gmail.com wrote:
>> If the threat to US players premise were true more people would dislike Fed...
>
>
> You are playing dumb, right?
>
> Which current US player is Fed threatening? No one.
> Which former US player is he threatening? Samoras? No more, that ship has sailed. Before that many US media indeed tried to play down Feddy‘s achievements („weak era“, „H2H against Nadal“).
> If in 10 or 15 years a new American great emerges, maybe closing in on Fed‘s slam record they will crawl back from under their rock an attack his legacy.
>
> Lendl, on the other hand, was a clear and present danger for the supremacy of McEnroe and Connors. Maybe the two biggest assholes tennis ever saw - but US citizens. So the Commie had to be attacked, again and again.
>
> Same with Justine Henin. Threatened the Williams supremacy. So attack her. Who blew up the so-called „hand incident“ and her retirement in the Mauresmo AO final beyond any proportion? US media and no one else.
>
> Steffi suffered the same fate. Seles stabbing, „little Sauerkraut“,

Sauerkraut? Yummy!

--
"We're trying to help you, Sir"
-- Paramedic in "Little Fockers"

[StephenJ]

On 5/30/2018 3:25 PM, Calimero wrote:
> On Wednesday, May 30, 2018 at 10:15:00 PM UTC+2, StephenJ wrote:
>> On 5/30/2018 2:59 PM, Calimero wrote:
>>> Steffi in major tournaments (slams, YEC, Olympics) 1987-96:
>>
>> Slams Max.
>
>
>
> Major tournaments,

Slams Eberl. You can lendl-raja all you like about YEC and whatever, but
slams define a legacy.

1-3 vs Seles, 1-1 vs everyone else. 2/12 before stabbing, 4/4 after.

Eberl checkmate.

FRAUD

[StephenJ]

On 5/31/2018 5:39 AM, Calimero wrote:
> On Thursday, May 31, 2018 at 9:17:42 AM UTC+2, heyg...@gmail.com wrote:
>> If the threat to US players premise were true more people would dislike Fed...
>
>
> You are playing dumb, right?
>
> Which current US player is Fed threatening? No one.

From 2007 onwards, Fed clearly threatened Sampras, and yet USA media
was effusive in their praise of Fed, many USA media called Fed "GOAT"
even when he had fewer slams than Sampras.

Fed - Sampras clearly exposes your biased claims about USA media. USA
media has fawned over Fed since day one.

[soccerfan777]

Very good point. When Federer got close to 14 many american media outlets were bringing up the h2h issue. And it was brought up a lot for almost an year in rst. There is obvious inertia to accepting foreigners as GOAT material. I bet if Borg had stayed on and win four more French Opens and may be couple of AOs... they would have brought up something else... not as good as McEnroe at Wimbledon... never won USO etc... The US media will always work day and night to find faults in some "foreigner GOAT's" legacy.

[soccerfan777]

On Thursday, May 31, 2018 at 5:39:07 AM UTC-5, Calimero wrote:

> On Thursday, May 31, 2018 at 9:17:42 AM UTC+2, heyg...@gmail.com wrote:
> > If the threat to US players premise were true more people would dislike Fed...
>
>
> You are playing dumb, right?
>
> Which current US player is Fed threatening? No one.
> Which former US player is he threatening? Samoras? No more, that ship has sailed. Before that many US media indeed tried to play down Feddy‘s achievements („weak era“, „H2H against Nadal“).
> If in 10 or 15 years a new American great emerges, maybe closing in on Fed‘s slam record they will crawl back from under their rock an attack his legacy.
>
> Lendl, on the other hand, was a clear and present danger for the supremacy of McEnroe and Connors. Maybe the two biggest assholes tennis ever saw - but US citizens. So the Commie had to be attacked, again and again.

If McEnroe was a Czech he would be vilified. But somehow his tantrums were entertaining.

[Calimero]

On Thursday, May 31, 2018 at 4:00:03 PM UTC+2, StephenJ wrote:
> On 5/30/2018 3:25 PM, Calimero wrote:
> > On Wednesday, May 30, 2018 at 10:15:00 PM UTC+2, StephenJ wrote:
> >> On 5/30/2018 2:59 PM, Calimero wrote:
> >>> Steffi in major tournaments (slams, YEC, Olympics) 1987-96:
> >>
> >> Slams Max.
> >
> >
> >
> > Major tournaments,
>

> Slams Eberl. ...

Major tournaments, Jaros.
Failing in major tournaments define a slump.

Even if we take only slams my point is proven:
Steffi played 11 slams between blackmail scandal and The Stabbing. Won one against non-Seles player (Sabby Wim 91) and lost 6 against non-Seles players.
Before and after that she played 25 slams in the 87-96 period. Won 19 against non-Seles players and lost just 4 against them.

1-6 vs. 19-4.
No Seles involved.
Jaros embarrassed and humiliated, again.


Max


—.
„ ... but it is true I disliked Graf.“
(Steve Jaros, rec.sport.tennis, 2004)

[soccerfan777]

Haha

[Calimero]

This is truly the most devastating stats yet.
I have to thank Jaros and his bob sidekick. They make me delve into the Graf stats trove again and again. And the deeper one digs the more the German beauty shines. :-)


Max

[StephenJ]

On 5/31/2018 9:25 AM, Calimero wrote:
> On Thursday, May 31, 2018 at 4:00:03 PM UTC+2, StephenJ wrote:
>> On 5/30/2018 3:25 PM, Calimero wrote:
>>> On Wednesday, May 30, 2018 at 10:15:00 PM UTC+2, StephenJ wrote:
>>>> On 5/30/2018 2:59 PM, Calimero wrote:
>>>>> Steffi in major tournaments (slams, YEC, Olympics) 1987-96:
>>>>
>>>> Slams Max.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Major tournaments,
>>
>> Slams Eberl. ...
>
> Major tournaments

Slams Eberl. You lose as always.

Checkmate.

[soccerfan777]

I must admit the same thing happened to be around 2002 or so when I initially joined the group when I saw Whisper and Jaros post blatant negative lies about Lendl being some transition champion. I dug more into his stats and was even more impressed.

[Calimero]

On Thursday, May 31, 2018 at 6:08:43 PM UTC+2, StephenJ wrote:
> On 5/31/2018 9:25 AM, Calimero wrote:
> > On Thursday, May 31, 2018 at 4:00:03 PM UTC+2, StephenJ wrote:
> >> On 5/30/2018 3:25 PM, Calimero wrote:
> >>> On Wednesday, May 30, 2018 at 10:15:00 PM UTC+2, StephenJ wrote:
> >>>> On 5/30/2018 2:59 PM, Calimero wrote:
> >>>>> Steffi in major tournaments (slams, YEC, Olympics) 1987-96:
> >>>>
> >>>> Slams Max.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Major tournaments,
> >>
> >> Slams Eberl. ...
> >
> > Major tournaments
>

> Slams Eberl. You lose as always. ...


Steffi played 11 slams between start of blackmail scandal and The Stabbing. Won one and lost 6 against non-Seles players.
Before and after that she played 25 slams in the 87-96 period. Won 19 and lost 4 against non-Seles players.

1-6 vs. 19-4. Against non-Seles players.


Yeah, I "lose always" ...

LOL!


Max


--
".... but it is true I disliked Graf." (Steve Jaros, rec.sport.tennis, 2004)

[StephenJ]

On 5/31/2018 11:38 AM, Calimero wrote:
> On Thursday, May 31, 2018 at 6:08:43 PM UTC+2, StephenJ wrote:
>> On 5/31/2018 9:25 AM, Calimero wrote:
>>> On Thursday, May 31, 2018 at 4:00:03 PM UTC+2, StephenJ wrote:
>>>> On 5/30/2018 3:25 PM, Calimero wrote:
>>>>> On Wednesday, May 30, 2018 at 10:15:00 PM UTC+2, StephenJ wrote:
>>>>>> On 5/30/2018 2:59 PM, Calimero wrote:
>>>>>>> Steffi in major tournaments (slams, YEC, Olympics) 1987-96:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Slams Max.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Major tournaments,
>>>>
>>>> Slams Eberl. ...
>>>
>>> Major tournaments
>>
>> Slams Eberl. You lose as always. ...
>
>
> Steffi played 11 slams

2/11 during Seles Slump, 4/4 after stabbing.

FRAUD Eberl loses yet again.

Sad!

[Calimero]

On Thursday, May 31, 2018 at 10:02:52 PM UTC+2, StephenJ wrote:
> On 5/31/2018 11:38 AM, Calimero wrote:
> > On Thursday, May 31, 2018 at 6:08:43 PM UTC+2, StephenJ wrote:
> >> On 5/31/2018 9:25 AM, Calimero wrote:
> >>> On Thursday, May 31, 2018 at 4:00:03 PM UTC+2, StephenJ wrote:
> >>>> On 5/30/2018 3:25 PM, Calimero wrote:
> >>>>> On Wednesday, May 30, 2018 at 10:15:00 PM UTC+2, StephenJ wrote:
> >>>>>> On 5/30/2018 2:59 PM, Calimero wrote:
> >>>>>>> Steffi in major tournaments (slams, YEC, Olympics) 1987-96:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Slams Max.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Major tournaments,
> >>>>
> >>>> Slams Eberl. ...
> >>>
> >>> Major tournaments
> >>
> >> Slams Eberl. You lose as always. ...
> >
> >
> > Steffi played 11 slams
>
> 2/11 during Seles Slump, 4/4 after stabbing.
>
> FRAUD Eberl loses yet again.
>
> Sad!
>

Steffi played 11 slams between the start of blackmail scandal and The Stabbing. Won one and lost 6 against non-Seles players.

Before and after that she played 25 slams in the 87-96 period. Won 19 and lost 4 against non-Seles players.
1-6 vs. 19-4. Against non-Seles players.

Lol ...

[StephenJ]

On 5/31/2018 3:37 PM, Calimero wrote:
> On Thursday, May 31, 2018 at 10:02:52 PM UTC+2, StephenJ wrote:
>> On 5/31/2018 11:38 AM, Calimero wrote:
>>> On Thursday, May 31, 2018 at 6:08:43 PM UTC+2, StephenJ wrote:
>>>> On 5/31/2018 9:25 AM, Calimero wrote:
>>>>> On Thursday, May 31, 2018 at 4:00:03 PM UTC+2, StephenJ wrote:
>>>>>> On 5/30/2018 3:25 PM, Calimero wrote:
>>>>>>> On Wednesday, May 30, 2018 at 10:15:00 PM UTC+2, StephenJ wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 5/30/2018 2:59 PM, Calimero wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Steffi in major tournaments (slams, YEC, Olympics) 1987-96:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Slams Max.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Major tournaments,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Slams Eberl. ...
>>>>>
>>>>> Major tournaments
>>>>
>>>> Slams Eberl. You lose as always. ...
>>>
>>>
>>> Steffi played 11 slams
>>
>> 2/11 during Seles Slump, 4/4 after stabbing.
>>
>> FRAUD Eberl loses yet again.
>>
>> Sad!
>>
>
>
> Steffi played 11 slams between the start of

2/11 during Seles Slump, 4/4 after stabbing.

FRAUD Eberl loses yet again.

Sad!

[DavidW]

On 1/06/2018 2:08 AM, StephenJ wrote:
> On 5/31/2018 9:25 AM, Calimero wrote:
>> On Thursday, May 31, 2018 at 4:00:03 PM UTC+2, StephenJ wrote:
>>> On 5/30/2018 3:25 PM, Calimero wrote:
>>>> On Wednesday, May 30, 2018 at 10:15:00 PM UTC+2, StephenJ wrote:
>>>>> On 5/30/2018 2:59 PM, Calimero wrote:
>>>>>> Steffi in major tournaments (slams, YEC, Olympics) 1987-96:
>>>>>
>>>>> Slams Max.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Major tournaments,
>>>
>>> Slams Eberl. ...
>>
>> Major tournaments
>
> Slams Eberl. You lose as always.
>
> Checkmate.

No. Slams are what matter for a player's legacy, but the other
tournaments are just as valid for examining a player's form, which is
what Max is doing here.

[*skriptis]

DavidW <n...@email.provided> Wrote in message:

So what do you conclude from Djokovic-Federer h2h outside of big
(slams and YEC) finals in 2015?

Dubai, Indian wells, Cincinnati, YEC RR.

3-1 Federer.

Wim, USO, YEC final, and the following AO SF, 4-0 Djokovic.
Federer even went on to win next two AOs.



--


----Android NewsGroup Reader----
http://usenet.sinaapp.com/

[DavidW]

Maybe Djok is only half-arsed in non-slam tournaments (which we know was
not the case with Graf, or Federer).

[*skriptis]

So why Seles can't be like that?

Mind you, when discussing Seles, I have a young Rafa 05-07, type
of player in mind.

[StephenJ]

Even if you are correct about all events indicating form, and I'm by no
means sure of that, no, that's not what Max is doing. He's not looking
at all events, he's cherry-picking something he calls 'major
tournaments' to support his dumbo argument.

[Calimero]

Steffi played 11 SLAMS between the start of the blackmail scandal (05/90) and The Stabbing (04/93). Won 1 and lost 6 against non-Seles players.

Before and after that she played 25 SLAMS in the 87-96 period. Won 17 and lost 6 against non-Seles players.

1-6 (slump) vs. 17-6 in SLAMS. Against non-Seles players.


Max



--
".... but it is true I disliked Graf." (Steve Jaros, rec.sport.tennis, 2004)

[heyg...@gmail.com]

Your stats also neatly fit with Elo field strength ratings, which were highest during Graf’s drought and lowest during her peaks. Elo also shows Graf’s level was steady from 91-96...the slump was in results but not really in level. Post-93 there was no peak Seles, Gabby was burning out, and Navratilova was done. All that was left was ASV. No wonder Graf’s results snapped back without her Elo level rising.

[Calimero]

On Friday, June 1, 2018 at 6:41:31 PM UTC+2, heyg...@gmail.com wrote:
> Your stats also neatly fit with Elo field strength ratings, which were highest during Graf’s drought and lowest during her peaks. Elo also shows Graf’s level was steady from 91-96...the slump was in results but not really in level. Post-93 there was no peak Seles, Gabby was burning out, and Navratilova was done. All that was left was ASV. No wonder Graf’s results snapped back without her Elo level rising.

Proof how dumb ELO is, at least in tennis.
„Not really in level“, what is that supposed to mean?
Just watch Steffi matches against Sabatini, Navratilova, Novotna during slump and pre-/post-slump.

Yeah, the field slumping pre-90, suddenly peaking in 91/92 and then slumping big-time again. How dumb do you have to be to believe that?


Let me guess - you .....

[heyg...@gmail.com]

Anybody who watched tennis then saw it happen. ASV and Seles hit the tour. Sabatini changed her game in 1990. Nav was still a threat on fast surfaces. Three of the four declined due to age, burnout and stabbing 93ish. I’ll take an objective Elo rating over cherry picked stats any day.

[StephenJ]

On 6/1/2018 11:41 AM, heyg...@gmail.com wrote:
> Your stats also neatly fit with Elo field strength ratings, which were highest during Graf’s drought and lowest during her peaks. Elo also shows Graf’s level was steady from 91-96...the slump was in results but not really in level. Post-93 there was no peak Seles, Gabby was burning out, and Navratilova was done. All that was left was ASV. No wonder Graf’s results snapped back without her Elo level rising.
>

Yes, it's pretty clear that Graf suffered a "Seles Slump". Seles was the
dominant Cat so you take the dominant player out of the picture and the
Mouse was able to Play ...

[StephenJ]

2/11 in slams during Seles Slump; 4/4 after stabbing ended the Seles Slump.

FRAUD

[Calimero]

On Friday, June 1, 2018 at 8:41:51 PM UTC+2, heyg...@gmail.com wrote:
> Anybody who watched tennis then saw it happen. ASV and Seles hit the tour.

> Sabatini changed her game in 1990. Nav was still a threat on fast surfaces. ...


1) ASV had winning percentage of 78.5 in 1989, 73.2 in 1990, 80.3 in 1991, 79.5 in 1992. Tremendous progress ...
2) Sabby had winning percentage of 82.9 in 1989, 78.8 in 1990, 84.9 in 1991, 84.4 in 1992. If we exclude her Graf matches 1991 & 1992 were worse (!) than 1989.
3) Navi had winning percentages of 91.3 in 1989, 88.1 in 1990, 85.5 in 1991, 82.6 in 1992. Steady decline.

No "field improving" or "field peaking" in 1990/92. Steffi just went down, especially in slams and YECs:
One loss to non-Seles players in slams/YECs every 2.4 months in slump time 90/91.
One loss to non-Seles players in slams/YEC every 10.5 months in 87/90 before start blackmailing scandal and 93/96 after stabbing.

> I’ll take an objective Elo rating over cherry picked stats any day.

This "ELO rating" is some tennis fan's personal judgement, you dickhead. Like Raja's or Shitpiss's point systems.

[Calimero]

On Friday, June 1, 2018 at 9:59:24 PM UTC+2, StephenJ wrote:
> On 6/1/2018 11:41 AM, heyg...@gmail.com wrote:
> > Your stats also neatly fit with Elo field strength ratings, which were highest during Graf’s drought and lowest during her peaks. Elo also shows Graf’s level was steady from 91-96...the slump was in results but not really in level. Post-93 there was no peak Seles, Gabby was burning out, and Navratilova was done. All that was left was ASV. No wonder Graf’s results snapped back without her Elo level rising.
> >
>

> Yes, it's pretty clear that Graf suffered a "Seles Slump". ...


Between May 90 and April 93 Steffi won 1 slam and lost in 6 slams against non-Seles players.
Between 87 and April 90 & May 93 and 96 Steffi won 17 slams and lost in 6 slams against non-Seles players.

1-6 vs. 17-6.
Against non-Seles players.

A "non-Seles Slump".

Stats and facts are brutal, I know ... lol ...

[Calimero]

The "non-Seles Slump".

Between May 90 and April 93 Steffi won 1 slam and lost in 6 slams against non-Seles players.
Between 87 and April 90 & May 93 and 96 Steffi won 17 slams and lost in 6 slams against non-Seles players.

1-6 vs. 17-6. Against non-Seles players.

[heyg...@gmail.com]

Elo ratings for players track their performance levels pretty accurately. Graf did have a dip in level after 1990 as you claim, but it was just very minor compared to a real slump, as confirmed by her not falling below #2 in the rankings. To use an index approach, if 100 is Graf’s peak, her slump was to 96 (based on Elo ratings). As a comparison, Serena’s slump in the mid 2000s was to about an 87. So yes Graf had a slight dip in level post 90, but it was small and was accompanied by the arrival of new challengers. Both factors were at play (a player’s level and field strength), as they always are for everyone.

[StephenJ]

On 6/1/2018 4:57 PM, Calimero wrote:
> On Friday, June 1, 2018 at 9:59:24 PM UTC+2, StephenJ wrote:
>> On 6/1/2018 11:41 AM, heyg...@gmail.com wrote:
>>> Your stats also neatly fit with Elo field strength ratings, which were highest during Graf’s drought and lowest during her peaks. Elo also shows Graf’s level was steady from 91-96...the slump was in results but not really in level. Post-93 there was no peak Seles, Gabby was burning out, and Navratilova was done. All that was left was ASV. No wonder Graf’s results snapped back without her Elo level rising.
>>>
>>
>> Yes, it's pretty clear that Graf suffered a "Seles Slump". ...
>
>
> Between May 90 and April 93 Steffi won 1 slam and lost in 6 slams against non-Seles players.
> Between 87 and April 90 & May 93 and 96 Steffi won 17 slams and lost in 6 slams against non-Seles players.
>
> 1-6 vs. 17-6.
> Against non-Seles players.

Yes, that's the impact of the Seles Slump. Seles cracked Graf's "queen
bee" aura which hurt Graf's confidence, and raised the confidence of
other top players, thus resulting in more losses by Graf to non-Seles
players at slams. Other top players were no longer cowed by Graf, they
smelled some blood in the water.

Thus, we see that Graf won 2/11 slams during Seles slump, 4/4 as soon as
the Seles Effect was eliminated thanks to Parche.

This has all been explained to you so why are you still so dense about it?

[StephenJ]

FRAUD

[Calimero]

On Saturday, June 2, 2018 at 8:55:42 AM UTC+2, heyg...@gmail.com wrote:
> Elo ratings for players track their performance levels pretty accurately. Graf did have a dip in level after 1990 as you claim, but it was just very minor compared to a real slump, as confirmed by her not falling below #2 in the rankings. To use an index approach, if 100 is Graf’s peak, her slump was to 96 (based on Elo ratings). As a comparison, Serena’s slump in the mid 2000s was to about an 87. So yes Graf had a slight dip in level post 90, but it was small and was accompanied by the arrival of new challengers. Both factors were at play (a player’s level and field strength), as they always are for everyone.

Steffi played 11 slams between the start of the blackmail scandal (05/90) and The Stabbing (04/93). Won one of them against a non-Seles player (Sabatini, Wim 91) and lost in 6 against non-Seles players.

Before and after that period she played 25 more slams in the 87-96 decade. Won 17 of them against non-Seles players and lost in 6 against those players.

1-6 (slump) vs. 17-6 in slams against non-Seles players.

A „slight dip“, right ... lol ...

[Calimero]

On Saturday, June 2, 2018 at 1:01:52 PM UTC+2, StephenJ wrote:
> On 6/1/2018 4:57 PM, Calimero wrote:
> > On Friday, June 1, 2018 at 9:59:24 PM UTC+2, StephenJ wrote:
> >> On 6/1/2018 11:41 AM, heyg...@gmail.com wrote:
> >>> Your stats also neatly fit with Elo field strength ratings, which were highest during Graf’s drought and lowest during her peaks. Elo also shows Graf’s level was steady from 91-96...the slump was in results but not really in level. Post-93 there was no peak Seles, Gabby was burning out, and Navratilova was done. All that was left was ASV. No wonder Graf’s results snapped back without her Elo level rising.
> >>>
> >>
> >> Yes, it's pretty clear that Graf suffered a "Seles Slump". ...
> >
> >
> > Between May 90 and April 93 Steffi won 1 slam and lost in 6 slams against non-Seles players.
> > Between 87 and April 90 & May 93 and 96 Steffi won 17 slams and lost in 6 slams against non-Seles players.
> >
> > 1-6 vs. 17-6.
> > Against non-Seles players.
>
> Yes, that's the impact of the Seles Slump. Seles cracked Graf's "queen
> bee" aura which hurt Graf's confidence, and raised the confidence of
> other top players, thus resulting in more losses by Graf to non-Seles

> players at slams. ....

Wasn‘t it Garrison (Wim 90) and Sabatini (USO & YEC 90) and Novotna (AO 91) who cracked that aura?

Why didn‘t Navi (Wim 87 & USO 87) crack the aura? Or Sabby (Key Biscayne 88 & Amelia Island 88)?? Steffi was quite successful fight after that as you may remember. Both were top players at that point, Seles just a #6 player in spring 90.

It was a classical non-Seles slump. However, Seles profited tremendously from it.

[*skriptis]

Calimero <calim...@gmx.de> Wrote in message:

> On Friday, June 1, 2018 at 8:41:51 PM UTC+2, heyg...@gmail.com wrote:
>> Anybody who watched tennis then saw it happen. ASV and Seles hit the tour.
>> Sabatini changed her game in 1990. Nav was still a threat on fast surfaces. ...
>
>
> 1) ASV had winning percentage of 78.5 in 1989, 73.2 in 1990, 80.3 in 1991, 79.5 in 1992. Tremendous progress ...
> 2) Sabby had winning percentage of 82.9 in 1989, 78.8 in 1990, 84.9 in 1991, 84.4 in 1992. If we exclude her Graf matches 1991 & 1992 were worse (!) than 1989.
> 3) Navi had winning percentages of 91.3 in 1989, 88.1 in 1990, 85.5 in 1991, 82.6 in 1992. Steady decline.

You're a joke. I invite everyone to re-read what you wrote about
these percentages and have a big laugh.

[Calimero]

Which one did you Slavic pea brain not get - #1, #2 or #3?

[*skriptis]

Calimero <calim...@gmx.de> Wrote in message:

Idiot, both elo and mpoat are
far less of a personal judgement
than using stats to prove anything.

Winning percentage stats are clearly inferior to both elo and
mpoat, but when you go like this:

Sabby had winning percentage of 82.9 in 1989, 78.8 in 1990, 84.9

in 1991, 84.4 in 1992. ***If we exclude her Graf matches**** 1991

& 1992 were worse (!) than 1989.

...You then become an utter joke. A laughing stock.

:D



Cherrypicking stats is what makes you an epic retard, but using
winning percentage stats in the first place makes you genuinely
stupid, as you can play e.g. 3 rounds at a slam and then
withdraw. Do it like that ten years and you have both 30-0
record, and 100% win rate at that slam.

I spit on anyone using winning percentage stats.



Elo is far better to determine someone's overall level, my only
wish is that there's a rating using slams only as that's where
all the players give their full effort.

Mpoat is different. And both these ratings aren't goat ratings.
You don't say car speedometer is broken for not showing
temperature. Both elo and mpoat measure different stuff.


Mpoat is kinda like career atp ranking in slams, it measures
presence, not greatness.

7543 otoh can't measure presence and prominence. It even says
Murray and Raja are equally prominent at AO (0 pts).


That's why we need mpoat.



Basically what we as analysts need are the following tools:

7543
Elo
Mpoat

[guypers]

7543 is a pos x 100000000000!

[Calimero]

On Saturday, June 2, 2018 at 5:15:34 PM UTC+2, *skriptis wrote:
> Calimero <calim...@gmx.de> Wrote in message:
> > On Friday, June 1, 2018 at 8:41:51 PM UTC+2, heyg...@gmail.com wrote:
> >> Anybody who watched tennis then saw it happen. ASV and Seles hit the tour.
> >> Sabatini changed her game in 1990. Nav was still a threat on fast surfaces. ...
> >
> >
> > 1) ASV had winning percentage of 78.5 in 1989, 73.2 in 1990, 80.3 in 1991, 79.5 in 1992. Tremendous progress ...
> > 2) Sabby had winning percentage of 82.9 in 1989, 78.8 in 1990, 84.9 in 1991, 84.4 in 1992. If we exclude her Graf matches 1991 & 1992 were worse (!) than 1989.
> > 3) Navi had winning percentages of 91.3 in 1989, 88.1 in 1990, 85.5 in 1991, 82.6 in 1992. Steady decline.
> >
> > No "field improving" or "field peaking" in 1990/92. Steffi just went down, especially in slams and YECs:
> > One loss to non-Seles players in slams/YECs every 2.4 months in slump time 90/91.
> > One loss to non-Seles players in slams/YEC every 10.5 months in 87/90 before start blackmailing scandal and 93/96 after stabbing.
> >
> >
> >> I’ll take an objective Elo rating over cherry picked stats any day.
> >
> >
> > This "ELO rating" is some tennis fan's personal judgement, you dickhead. Like Raja's or Shitpiss's point systems.
>
>
>
> Idiot, both elo and mpoat are
> far less of a personal judgement
> than using stats to prove anything.
>
> Winning percentage stats are clearly inferior to both elo and
> mpoat, but when you go like this:
>
> Sabby had winning percentage of 82.9 in 1989, 78.8 in 1990, 84.9
> in 1991, 84.4 in 1992. ***If we exclude her Graf matches**** 1991
> & 1992 were worse (!) than 1989.
>
> ...You then become an utter joke. A laughing stock.
>

You are the laughing stock, Shitpiss.

Excluding Steffi matches reveals that Sabatini had WORSE results against players NOT named Steffi during 1991/92 compared to 1988-90.
So Sabby had better winning percentages in 1991/92 for one reason - she beat a slumping Steffi regularily while she usually lost to a peaking Steffi.

Got it, dickhead?

[guypers]

Dumb german, steffi #2!!!

[Calimero]

Steffi is more intelligent than your Willy sisters or Navratilova, Seles, Davenport.
And she has won the GOLDEN SLAM while your faves haven't (didn't have the talent or the guts!).

[StephenJ]

What year did Steffi graduate from high school?

[StephenJ]

On 6/2/2018 8:41 AM, Calimero wrote:
> On Saturday, June 2, 2018 at 1:01:52 PM UTC+2, StephenJ wrote:
>> On 6/1/2018 4:57 PM, Calimero wrote:
>>> On Friday, June 1, 2018 at 9:59:24 PM UTC+2, StephenJ wrote:
>>>> On 6/1/2018 11:41 AM, heyg...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>>> Your stats also neatly fit with Elo field strength ratings, which were highest during Graf’s drought and lowest during her peaks. Elo also shows Graf’s level was steady from 91-96...the slump was in results but not really in level. Post-93 there was no peak Seles, Gabby was burning out, and Navratilova was done. All that was left was ASV. No wonder Graf’s results snapped back without her Elo level rising.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Yes, it's pretty clear that Graf suffered a "Seles Slump". ...
>>>
>>>
>>> Between May 90 and April 93 Steffi won 1 slam and lost in 6 slams against non-Seles players.
>>> Between 87 and April 90 & May 93 and 96 Steffi won 17 slams and lost in 6 slams against non-Seles players.
>>>
>>> 1-6 vs. 17-6.
>>> Against non-Seles players.
>>
>> Yes, that's the impact of the Seles Slump. Seles cracked Graf's "queen
>> bee" aura which hurt Graf's confidence, and raised the confidence of
>> other top players, thus resulting in more losses by Graf to non-Seles
>> players at slams. ....
>
> Wasn‘t it Garrison (Wim 90)

Garrison was one of the first to smell the blood in the water after
Seles had cracked Steffi's aura.

How many times must this be explained to you?

FRAUD

[Calimero]

There are no high schools in Germany, dummy ...

And in the USA even people like you graduate from such a high school. You think that means you are intelligent?
I mean, seriously ... ?

[Calimero]

On Saturday, June 2, 2018 at 9:53:09 PM UTC+2, StephenJ wrote:
> On 6/2/2018 8:41 AM, Calimero wrote:
> > On Saturday, June 2, 2018 at 1:01:52 PM UTC+2, StephenJ wrote:
> >> On 6/1/2018 4:57 PM, Calimero wrote:
> >>> On Friday, June 1, 2018 at 9:59:24 PM UTC+2, StephenJ wrote:
> >>>> On 6/1/2018 11:41 AM, heyg...@gmail.com wrote:
> >>>>> Your stats also neatly fit with Elo field strength ratings, which were highest during Graf’s drought and lowest during her peaks. Elo also shows Graf’s level was steady from 91-96...the slump was in results but not really in level. Post-93 there was no peak Seles, Gabby was burning out, and Navratilova was done. All that was left was ASV. No wonder Graf’s results snapped back without her Elo level rising.
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Yes, it's pretty clear that Graf suffered a "Seles Slump". ...
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Between May 90 and April 93 Steffi won 1 slam and lost in 6 slams against non-Seles players.
> >>> Between 87 and April 90 & May 93 and 96 Steffi won 17 slams and lost in 6 slams against non-Seles players.
> >>>
> >>> 1-6 vs. 17-6.
> >>> Against non-Seles players.
> >>
> >> Yes, that's the impact of the Seles Slump. Seles cracked Graf's "queen
> >> bee" aura which hurt Graf's confidence, and raised the confidence of
> >> other top players, thus resulting in more losses by Graf to non-Seles
> >> players at slams. ....
> >
> > Wasn‘t it Garrison (Wim 90)
>
> Garrison was one of the first to smell the blood in the water after
> Seles had cracked Steffi's aura.

Why didn't
1) Navi's two wins in summer 87 (Wim & USO) or
2) Sabby's two wins in March/April 88 (Key Biscayne & Amelia Island)
crack Steffi's aura and raise - for instance - Zvereva's confidence in the FO 88 final?

And what about Pierce's two wins against Steffi in 94 (FO & YEC) crack Steffi's aura and prevent her from winning the next 6 slams she played ... ?


Jaros, you are getting old - you simply are no opponent anymore. Even an average US lawyer would smoke you with ease ...

[StephenJ]

What year did Graf stop attending school, dunkoff?

[StephenJ]

On 6/2/2018 5:28 PM, Calimero wrote:
> On Saturday, June 2, 2018 at 9:53:09 PM UTC+2, StephenJ wrote:
>> On 6/2/2018 8:41 AM, Calimero wrote:
>>> On Saturday, June 2, 2018 at 1:01:52 PM UTC+2, StephenJ wrote:
>>>> On 6/1/2018 4:57 PM, Calimero wrote:
>>>>> On Friday, June 1, 2018 at 9:59:24 PM UTC+2, StephenJ wrote:
>>>>>> On 6/1/2018 11:41 AM, heyg...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>>>>> Your stats also neatly fit with Elo field strength ratings, which were highest during Graf’s drought and lowest during her peaks. Elo also shows Graf’s level was steady from 91-96...the slump was in results but not really in level. Post-93 there was no peak Seles, Gabby was burning out, and Navratilova was done. All that was left was ASV. No wonder Graf’s results snapped back without her Elo level rising.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Yes, it's pretty clear that Graf suffered a "Seles Slump". ...
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Between May 90 and April 93 Steffi won 1 slam and lost in 6 slams against non-Seles players.
>>>>> Between 87 and April 90 & May 93 and 96 Steffi won 17 slams and lost in 6 slams against non-Seles players.
>>>>>
>>>>> 1-6 vs. 17-6.
>>>>> Against non-Seles players.
>>>>
>>>> Yes, that's the impact of the Seles Slump. Seles cracked Graf's "queen
>>>> bee" aura which hurt Graf's confidence, and raised the confidence of
>>>> other top players, thus resulting in more losses by Graf to non-Seles
>>>> players at slams. ....
>>>
>>> Wasn‘t it Garrison (Wim 90)
>>
>> Garrison was one of the first to smell the blood in the water after
>> Seles had cracked Steffi's aura.
>
>
> Why didn't

... your parents bequeath you a brain? Navi's two wins over Graf during
summer 87 was when Navi was the Queen and Graf was trying to overtake
her. Totally different psychology.

2/11 slams during Seles Slump, 4/4 after Seles Effect ended. Good Lord
are you really this dense?

[StephenJ]

On 5/30/2018 3:55 PM, Calimero wrote:
> On Wednesday, May 30, 2018 at 10:37:49 PM UTC+2, heyg...@gmail.com wrote:
>> Now Djokovic has weighed in:
>>
>> “I love Serena. All the superlatives and beautiful words...she deserves it.
>>
>> She’s the greatest female athlete of all time.”
>>
>> Novak Djokovic on Serena Williams and her return.
>
>
> His name is Joker for a reason.
> Is too young to have watched Steffi play.

Always excuses and denigration when anyone says anything truthful, but
not in accordance with your desperate clinging to Steffi's lost GOAT-hood.

Too bad Max, too bad. :)

[Calimero]

Graf was WTA #1 and the #1 seed at the 87 USO, you dimwit ...


> Totally different psychology.


And was Steffi also to overtake Sabby in March/April 88?
Zvereva somehow didn't smell blood at the FO that year against Steffi, did she?


>
> 2/11 slams during Seles Slump, 4/4 after Seles Effect ended. ....


1-6 in slam final wins vs. slam match losses against non-Seles players in slump.
But 17-6 during Steffi's prime time.
You are really obsessed with your precious Serbian (oops, US American) grunter ...

[bob]

On Thu, 31 May 2018 00:17:40 -0700 (PDT), heyg...@gmail.com wrote:

>If the threat to US players premise were true more people would dislike Fed...

i said that a month ago. fed must be the most popular player to ever
step foot in the usa.

bob

[bob]

On Thu, 31 May 2018 07:25:40 -0700 (PDT), Calimero
<calim...@gmx.de> wrote:

>On Thursday, May 31, 2018 at 4:00:03 PM UTC+2, StephenJ wrote:
>> On 5/30/2018 3:25 PM, Calimero wrote:
>> > On Wednesday, May 30, 2018 at 10:15:00 PM UTC+2, StephenJ wrote:
>> >> On 5/30/2018 2:59 PM, Calimero wrote:
>> >>> Steffi in major tournaments (slams, YEC, Olympics) 1987-96:
>> >>
>> >> Slams Max.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Major tournaments,
>>
>> Slams Eberl. ...
>

>Major tournaments, Jaros.
>Failing in major tournaments define a slump.
>
>Even if we take only slams my point is proven:
>Steffi played 11 slams between blackmail scandal and The Stabbing. Won one against non-Seles player (Sabby Wim 91) and lost 6 against non-Seles players.
>Before and after that she played 25 slams in the 87-96 period. Won 19 against non-Seles players and lost just 4 against them.
>
>1-6 vs. 19-4.
>No Seles involved.
>Jaros embarrassed and humiliated, again.

if you want to blame the blackmail scandal, what was it about the
blackmail scandal allowed her to turn it around the day seles got
stabbed?

bob

[StephenJ]

LMAO! Everyone who remembers 87 knows that MN was still on top. As long
as she was winning W and USO she was the Queen.

Graf was definitely still in 'challenger' mode at 87 USO, so totally
different than Seles/Graf 90.

Your ignorance of tennis history is appalling, but not unexpected.

Next time, prove you have a life and stop posting at midnight Bavaria
time, LOL.

[StephenJ]

Yes, and he was uber-popular even 10 years ago, when he was approaching
Sampras's slam record.

Max is just totally ignorant about USA tennis fans.

[Calimero]

Steffi was #1 and hadn't lost even one match before her Wimbledon loss to Navi that year.
What about her aura of invincibility?

And what about her two losses against Sabby in April/May 88? Why didn't she crack? What is your excuse there?

[StephenJ]

You're either just a dunkoff or weren't around then: Until Graf beat her
at 88 W, MN was the Queen of tennis. Until then, Graf was still striving
to be the top girl, so the psychology was totally different.

Keep grubbing through the record books for "what about when Novotna beat
Graf at 88 YEC??" or whatever, but you're never going to find anything
close to the one-two punch of Seles beating Graf at 90 GO/FO that
knocked Graf's aura away.

Seles Slump .. FRAUD Eberl.

[Calimero]

So Seles never was the queen?
Ouch, now you‘ll get flak from your fellow Selesians, son ... lol ...

Your hate clouds your brain. Very disturbing. Do you own a AR 15 and live near Las Vegas?

[Whisper]

Of course. Can't beat Wim/USO combo.



---
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
https://www.avg.com

[StephenJ]

Your lack of tennis knowledge in this particular thread has been
breathtaking, appalling. :(



--
there is no doubt that the black-white
power struggle in south africa is but a
microcosm of the global confrontation
between the third world and the rich white
nations of the world.

- Steve Biko

[Calimero]

I just present the facts and don't blabber about "aura cracked" and "final losses hurt most" and B.S. like that ...


The "non-Seles Slump":

Between May 90 and April 93 Steffi won 1 slam and lost in 6 slams against non-Seles players.
Between 87 and April 90 & May 93 and 96 Steffi won 17 slams and lost in 6 slams against non-Seles players.

1-6 vs. 17-6. Against non-Seles players.

I love it!!

[StephenJ]

... and as I've explained to you, the facts show a "Seles Slump" that
was ended by Parche. You are just too biased and/or dumb to realize that.

[Calimero]

> ... and as I've explained to you, the facts show a "Seles Slump" ...

Between May 90 and April 93 Steffi won 1 slam and lost in 6 slams against non-Seles players.
Between 87 and April 90 & May 93 and 96 Steffi won 17 slams and lost in 6 slams against non-Seles players.

1-6 vs. 17-6. Against non-Seles players.

LOL!!


Max

[StephenJ]

2/11 slams before Parche, 4/4 after stabbing.

Max loses

FRAUD

[Calimero]

Because the non-Seles slump ended in 93.

Between May 90 and April 93 Steffi won 1 slam and lost in 6 slams against non-Seles players.
Between 87 and April 90 & May 93 and 96 Steffi won 17 slams and lost in 6 slams against non-Seles players.

1-6 vs. 17-6. Against non-Seles players.

And then this doofus back-pedals and comes up with "aura cracked" ...


Max

[Whisper]

But not unexpected?

: )

[StephenJ]

LMAO .... pathetic ... "Steffi was no fragile flower" ....

2/11 ... 4/4 ... FRAUD