Ronaldo and Messi are out

[*skriptis]

Wow
--


----Android NewsGroup Reader----
http://usenet.sinaapp.com/

[soccerfan777]

Roflmao

[Yama]

*skriptis kirjoitti 30.6.2018 klo 22:56:
>
> Wow
>

Rather expected.

[soccerfan777]

Both are complete prima donnas and I am glad both are gonna. Now the World Cup will be better off

[StephenJ]

On 6/30/2018 2:56 PM, *skriptis wrote:
>
> Wow
>

Can't say it was unexpected. I figured France and Uruguay would win,
better teams.

France vs Uruguay is going to be a good one. Both look capable of
winning the title.


--
there is no doubt that the black-white
power struggle in south africa is but a
microcosm of the global confrontation
between the third world and the rich white
nations of the world.

- Steve Biko

[Calimero]

Uruguay wasn‘t the better team. And they don‘t have any chance to win the title.
Would you PLEASE stop commenting on a sport you don‘t have any clue about.


Max

[soccerfan777]

Haha. Uruguay is not world Cup winning material. But this is one weird World Cup

[StephenJ]

On 6/30/2018 3:40 PM, Calimero wrote:
> On Saturday, June 30, 2018 at 10:18:12 PM UTC+2, StephenJ wrote:
>> On 6/30/2018 2:56 PM, *skriptis wrote:
>>>
>>> Wow
>>>
>>
>> Can't say it was unexpected. I figured France and Uruguay would win,
>> better teams.
>>
>> France vs Uruguay is going to be a good one. Both look capable of
>> winning the title.
>>
>>
>> --
>> there is no doubt that the black-white
>> power struggle in south africa is but a
>> microcosm of the global confrontation
>> between the third world and the rich white
>> nations of the world.
>>
>> - Steve Biko
>
>
> Uruguay wasn‘t the better team. And they don‘t have any chance to win the title.

We'll see. You thought doitchland was going to win the WC so don't have
much credibility here.

[Calimero]

Typical Jaroslogic.
If I predict Federer winning Wimbledon and he crashes out in the first three rounds and you suggest Jack Sock looks capable of winning and I call you an idiot then I have a lot of credibility.


Max

[MBDunc]

Uruguay - Portugal was the first match I saw fully.

Uruguay played tactically superb match with 2 fine goals. Portugal looked more active (well they had an uphill scoreboard more than 80% of whole playtime) but inefficient as Uruguay's defense/lower midfield kept Portugal at the bay easily.

Uruguay has now played (including this Portugal match) seven national team matches this year with 7-0-0 and goals 12-1.

.mikko

[The Doctor]

In article <7940080d-8f56-4480...@googlegroups.com>,

Love the BBC R5 coverage!
--
Member - Liberal International This is doctor@@nl2k.ab.ca Ici doctor@@nl2k.ab.ca
Yahweh, Queen & country!Never Satan President Republic!Beware AntiChrist rising!
https://www.empire.kred/ROOTNK?t=94a1f39b Look at Psalms 14 and 53 on Atheism
By the work one knows the workmen. -Jean De La Fontaine

[kaennorsing]

Op zaterdag 30 juni 2018 21:56:49 UTC+2 schreef *skriptis:

The question is: How can Messi be considered the GOAT when he fails to win a single World Cup... or even reach a final?

[StephenJ]

Because it's a team game? How many WC's would Pele have won had he been
on the USA national team during the 1960s?

[StephenJ]

No, because there might be a reason why Fed is a dumb choice for a
specific Wimbledon and Sock a good choice (well no, Sock would never be
a good choice for anything).

But comparing Sock to Uruguay shows how little credibility Eberlogic
has. That's just a dunkoff comparison.

[StephenJ]

Yes, but Eberl thinks they are the soccer equivalent of Jack Sock, LMAO!

[Yama]

Calimero kirjoitti 30.6.2018 klo 23:40:
> Uruguay wasn‘t the better team. And they don‘t have any chance to win the title.
> Would you PLEASE stop commenting on a sport you don‘t have any clue about.

Portugal has been god-awful, progressing only due to super weak
opposition, and were finally exposed.

[StephenJ]

Them and Argentina. Argentina limped in to the knockout stage. I was
expecting a 2-3 goal France win.

[Yama]

soccerfan777 kirjoitti 30.6.2018 klo 23:13:
> Both are complete prima donnas and I am glad both are gonna. Now the World Cup will be better off

Cough, well, Suarez did advance...

Though, I would rather see Uruguay in medal games.

[Yama]

StephenJ kirjoitti 1.7.2018 klo 2:12:
> Them and Argentina. Argentina limped in to the knockout stage. I was
> expecting a 2-3 goal France win.

Well, Argentina (and Germany) were already exposed in group stage. but
yeah, it's a testament to the skill of Argentina offense that they
managed to score 3 goals vs France. If their defense didn't suck so bad,
they might have been a factor here.

[kaennorsing]

Op zondag 1 juli 2018 01:01:36 UTC+2 schreef StephenJ:

If Messi or Ronaldo played for USA they would have an excuse. Sort of.

Cruyff made 2 World Cup finals with the Netherlands (a tiny country) and put the it on the map, while creating a football system that's often used today. Zidane and Pelle won 2 World Cups, scoring crucial goals for their country. Those are GOAT-level players.

[Whisper]

Made final in 2014 & lost narrowly 1-0.



---
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
https://www.avg.com

[StephenJ]

Pele won 3 world cups, everyone recognizes him as GOAT or possible GOAT.
Zidane won one WC and head-butted his way out of another. He's one of
the handful of best players of the past 25 years, but not quite at CR
and Messi level. Nobody of this generation is.

[John Liang]

Outside Pele the next best is possibly Maradona. Ronaldo and Messi are great players but I don't think they are at Maradona's level.

[StephenJ]

>On 7/1/2018 6:27 AM, John Liang wrote:

> Outside Pele the next best is possibly Maradona. Ronaldo and Messi are great players but I >don't think they are at Maradona's level.
>

To me, Pele is like Laver, I never saw him play except as an old shell
of himself in the old NASL of the 1970s, and that's like seeing Laver in
1976 too, doesn't count (funny that Laver and Pele were basically
contemporaries). So I will take the word of those who did about his
greatness.

When Maradona was at his peak during the 1980s, I was aware of him but
hated soccer so almost never saw him. I did happen to watch the famous
match vs England in 1986 and his second goal in that game is still one
the greatest athletic moments I have ever seen. My jaw dropped then, it
was the only moment in the first 35 or so years of my life that I liked
soccer, so I defer to those who say he's the best.

Past 10 years, it has to be CR and Messi. I like CR better but the
experts seem to like Messi, though that has narrowed in the past 2-3
years, no?

[*skriptis]

StephenJ <sjo...@cox.com> Wrote in message:

> On 7/1/2018 3:11 AM, kaennorsing wrote:
>> Op zondag 1 juli 2018 01:01:36 UTC+2 schreef StephenJ:
>>> On 6/30/2018 5:39 PM, kaennorsing wrote:
>>>> Op zaterdag 30 juni 2018 21:56:49 UTC+2 schreef *skriptis:
>>>>> Wow
>>>>> --
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ----Android NewsGroup Reader----
>>>>> http://usenet.sinaapp.com/
>>>>
>>>> The question is: How can Messi be considered the GOAT when he fails to win a single World Cup... or even reach a final?
>>>>
>>>
>>> Because it's a team game? How many WC's would Pele have won had he been
>>> on the USA national team during the 1960s?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> there is no doubt that the black-white
>>> power struggle in south africa is but a
>>> microcosm of the global confrontation
>>> between the third world and the rich white
>>> nations of the world.
>>>
>>> - Steve Biko
>>
>> If Messi or Ronaldo played for USA they would have an excuse. Sort of.
>>
>> Cruyff made 2 World Cup finals with the Netherlands (a tiny country) and put the it on the map, while creating a football system that's often used today. Zidane and Pelle won 2 World Cups, scoring crucial goals for their country. Those are GOAT-level players.
>>
>
> Pele won 3 world cups, everyone recognizes him as GOAT or possible GOAT.
> Zidane won one WC and head-butted his way out of another. He's one of
> the handful of best players of the past 25 years, but not quite at CR
> and Messi level. Nobody of this generation is.

Zidane is clearly goat.
By that I mean achievement goat.

National achievements:
World champion.
Euro champion.

Club achievements:
European champion and bunch of national leagues.

Coach achievements
3-time Club European champion.


Pele, real Ronaldo and Maradona have never won UEFA champions
league. They've won World cup though.

And Messi and Christiano have won bunch of European Cups but have
never won World Cup Although CR7 won Euro with Portugal.



So it's probably Zidane but you could argue for Christiano.


And there's a some German Beckerbauer that has all these Zidane
like achievements but that's way back and irrelevant.

[Whisper]

On 1/07/2018 9:37 PM, StephenJ wrote:
> >On 7/1/2018 6:27 AM, John Liang wrote:
>
>> Outside Pele the next best is possibly Maradona.  Ronaldo and Messi
>> are great players but I >don't think they are at Maradona's level.
>>
>
> To me, Pele is like Laver, I never saw him play except as an old shell
> of himself in the old NASL of the 1970s, and that's like seeing Laver in
> 1976 too, doesn't count (funny that Laver and Pele were basically
> contemporaries). So I will take the word of those who did about his
> greatness.
>
> When Maradona was at his peak during the 1980s, I was aware of him but
> hated soccer so almost never saw him. I did happen to watch the famous
> match vs England in 1986 and his second goal in that game is still one
> the greatest athletic moments I have ever seen. My jaw dropped then, it
> was the only moment in the first 35 or so years of my life that I liked
> soccer, so I defer to those who say he's the best.

That could well be the most iconic/famous goal of all time? Like you say
even people with no interest in soccer would have been mesmerized by
that goal. Maradona maybe comparable to McEnroe in terms of freakish
ability?

>
> Past 10 years, it has to be CR and Messi. I like CR better but the
> experts seem to like Messi, though that has narrowed in the past 2-3
> years, no?
>
>

Messi is like Federer & Cr like Nadal?

[*skriptis]

Whisper <beav...@ozemail.com> Wrote in message:

Sampras is Zidane.

[StephenJ]

Zidane's coach achievements the three years he led RM are off the
charts, but you can't lump that in with player achievements.

And defining player achievements in terms of team achievements is dicey,
as teams win European and World and Champion's League titles, not players.

I mean, I'd take CR's club achievements way over Zidane's. He has what,
5 CL titles?

[joh]

Cruyff didn't play in '78. But he's had a huge influence on Dutch football. Messi & Ronaldo won't have an influence like Cruyff, if only because Argentina & Portugal are not where the Netherlands were before Cruyff happened.

[The Iceberg]

Zidane is well up there with CR and Messi. When it came to it, Zidane stepped it up, same as peak (older)Ronaldo and Pele, still haven't seen Messi or CR do that, especially Messi at World Cup, to be honest.

[The Iceberg]

On Sunday, 1 July 2018 12:47:43 UTC+1, Whisper wrote:
> On 1/07/2018 9:37 PM, StephenJ wrote:
> > >On 7/1/2018 6:27 AM, John Liang wrote:
> >
> >> Outside Pele the next best is possibly Maradona.  Ronaldo and Messi
> >> are great players but I >don't think they are at Maradona's level.
> >>
> >
> > To me, Pele is like Laver, I never saw him play except as an old shell
> > of himself in the old NASL of the 1970s, and that's like seeing Laver in
> > 1976 too, doesn't count (funny that Laver and Pele were basically
> > contemporaries). So I will take the word of those who did about his
> > greatness.
> >
> > When Maradona was at his peak during the 1980s, I was aware of him but
> > hated soccer so almost never saw him. I did happen to watch the famous
> > match vs England in 1986 and his second goal in that game is still one
> > the greatest athletic moments I have ever seen. My jaw dropped then, it
> > was the only moment in the first 35 or so years of my life that I liked
> > soccer, so I defer to those who say he's the best.
>
>
> That could well be the most iconic/famous goal of all time? Like you say
> even people with no interest in soccer would have been mesmerized by
> that goal. Maradona maybe comparable to McEnroe in terms of freakish
> ability?

much as I despise the cheating git Maradona, have to say he a terrific Tier 1 footballer + manager.

> Messi is like Federer & Cr like Nadal?

Hmmm have to think about that, not a bad idea, who would be Djoker?

[The Iceberg]

Been told by most who saw him play that the At-Peak GOAT was George Best.

[*skriptis]

The Iceberg <iceber...@gmail.com> Wrote in message:

Another Balkan guy, Ibrahimovic?

[kaennorsing]

Op zondag 1 juli 2018 13:46:07 UTC+2 schreef *skriptis:

Zidane is achievement GOAT and overall GOAT and BOAT all in one. Nobody ever had the level of control in all aspects of the game. Nobody ever made it look as easy or beautiful. Period.

[kaennorsing]

Op zondag 1 juli 2018 13:54:00 UTC+2 schreef *skriptis:

Zidane was more diverse, elegant and controlled than Pete. More well balanced = more like Federer. Pete was more hit and miss. Federer/Zidane are control and hit.

[guypers]

+1
beat Brazil singlehanded in semis of 04, but lost to Italy in final!!

[Whisper]

Yes I heard that too.

[undecided]

Beckenbauer? One of the best. He was contemporaries with Pele. I have to say I was priviliged to meet both guys on the same day in the 1980s when they were running a soccer camp at the College I was attending at the time. I got both of their autographs. As a 19 year old I was in soccer heaven that day.

[Calimero]

> ...

> So it's probably Zidane but you could argue for Christiano.
>
>
> And there's a some German Beckerbauer that has all these Zidane
> like achievements but that's way back and irrelevant.

Beckenbauer won the WC in 1974 as a player and again in 1990 as coach.
He also won the Euro in 1972. And he is a 3-time Club European champion (1974, 1975, 1976).
Sadly he is a Bayern pig.


Max

[Manuel aka Xax]

Le samedi 30 juin 2018 22:13:41 UTC+2, soccerfan777 a écrit :
> Both are complete prima donnas and I am glad both are gonna. Now the World Cup will be better off

+1 :-)

[Manuel aka Xax]

+2

[soccerfan777]

You just hate Bayern because Gladbach and Bayern were big rivals in the 1970s in Bundesliga and Bayern usually came on top.

Gladbach has been irrelevant since the 70s though.

[Manuel aka Xax]

Le dimanche 1 juillet 2018 01:08:30 UTC+2, Yama a écrit :
> Calimero kirjoitti 30.6.2018 klo 23:40:
> > Uruguay wasn‘t the better team. And they don‘t have any chance to win the title.
> > Would you PLEASE stop commenting on a sport you don‘t have any clue about.
>
> Portugal has been god-awful, progressing only due to super weak
> opposition, and were finally exposed.

+1

[Manuel aka Xax]

Nope.
Their offensive skill is near zero once Messi isn't willing / able to

[Manuel aka Xax]

Le dimanche 1 juillet 2018 00:39:17 UTC+2, kaennorsing a écrit :
> Op zaterdag 30 juni 2018 21:56:49 UTC+2 schreef *skriptis:
> > Wow
> > --
> >
> >
> > ----Android NewsGroup Reader----
> > http://usenet.sinaapp.com/
>
> The question is: How can Messi be considered the GOAT when he fails to win a single World Cup... or even reach a final?

Because of media/adds overkill coverage.

Both cry babies from Argentina / Portugal have benefited to the max from the internet explosion.

Despite finding both great players, none is in my mind anywhere near goat league (Pele, Zidane, Maradona, Cruyff, Platini and few other I can't think of right now).

[*skriptis]

undecided <cos...@gmail.com> Wrote in message:

Did you take photos together?


http://t.co/u1Hiq9akTj

[John Liang]

C Ronaldo and Messi are definitely a few rung below the few names you already mentioned.

[kaennorsing]

Op zondag 1 juli 2018 10:23:16 UTC+2 schreef Whisper:

> On 1/07/2018 8:39 AM, kaennorsing wrote:
> > Op zaterdag 30 juni 2018 21:56:49 UTC+2 schreef *skriptis:
> >> Wow
> >> --
> >>
> >>
> >> ----Android NewsGroup Reader----
> >> http://usenet.sinaapp.com/
> >
> > The question is: How can Messi be considered the GOAT when he fails to win a single World Cup... or even reach a final?
> >
>

> Made final in 2014 & lost narrowly 1-0.

Alright. So the GOAT that almost won a World Cup once, with the 2nd most successful football nation in World Cup history.

I guess he can redeem himself in 4 years, at 35. Maybe the team can carry him to the trophy?

[kaennorsing]

Op zondag 1 juli 2018 13:09:14 UTC+2 schreef StephenJ:

> On 7/1/2018 3:11 AM, kaennorsing wrote:
> > Op zondag 1 juli 2018 01:01:36 UTC+2 schreef StephenJ:

> >> On 6/30/2018 5:39 PM, kaennorsing wrote:
> >>> Op zaterdag 30 juni 2018 21:56:49 UTC+2 schreef *skriptis:
> >>>> Wow
> >>>> --
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> ----Android NewsGroup Reader----
> >>>> http://usenet.sinaapp.com/
> >>>
> >>> The question is: How can Messi be considered the GOAT when he fails to win a single World Cup... or even reach a final?
> >>>
> >>

> >> Because it's a team game? How many WC's would Pele have won had he been
> >> on the USA national team during the 1960s?
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> there is no doubt that the black-white
> >> power struggle in south africa is but a
> >> microcosm of the global confrontation
> >> between the third world and the rich white
> >> nations of the world.
> >>
> >> - Steve Biko
> >
> > If Messi or Ronaldo played for USA they would have an excuse. Sort of.
> >
> > Cruyff made 2 World Cup finals with the Netherlands (a tiny country) and put the it on the map, while creating a football system that's often used today. Zidane and Pelle won 2 World Cups, scoring crucial goals for their country. Those are GOAT-level players.
> >
>
> Pele won 3 world cups, everyone recognizes him as GOAT or possible GOAT.
> Zidane won one WC and head-butted his way out of another. He's one of
> the handful of best players of the past 25 years, but not quite at CR
> and Messi level. Nobody of this generation is.

Lol, Zidane not at CR/Messi level. You've got to be kidding, right?

These kids never even scored a single goal in any knock-out match of ANY World Cup. How can they even be compared to the Zidane? The GOAT who scored 3 goals in finals matches alone (would have likely scored or assisted in one more if he didn't get the red card)... And all that as a midfielder.

[*skriptis]

kaennorsing <ljub...@hotmail.com> Wrote in message:

How is Argentina second most successful?

5 Brazil
4 Uruguay, Italy, Germany
3
2 Argentina
1 England, France, Spain


You confused 2 titles with second most successful? ;)

[undecided]

Unfortunately no. I was in my dorm when a friend from the soccer varsity team barges in and says 'guys, Pele and Beckenbauer are both on the field'. Literally, I grabbed the 1st piece of paper near me and ran as hard as I could to get there so I would not miss them.

[kaennorsing]

Op dinsdag 3 juli 2018 15:20:37 UTC+2 schreef *skriptis:

I guess I remembered the top 5 in reverse ;)

[Patrick Kehoe]

On Saturday, June 30, 2018 at 1:18:12 PM UTC-7, StephenJ wrote:
> On 6/30/2018 2:56 PM, *skriptis wrote:
> >
> > Wow
> >
>
> Can't say it was unexpected. I figured France and Uruguay would win,
> better teams.
>
> France vs Uruguay is going to be a good one. Both look capable of
> winning the title.

>
>
> --
> there is no doubt that the black-white
> power struggle in south africa is but a
> microcosm of the global confrontation
> between the third world and the rich white
> nations of the world.
>
> - Steve Biko

France 2-0...

P

[Whisper]

Not easy for an individual player to determine a team's success. We
shouldn't be so hard on soccer players. Tennis players are a different
matter. Their destiny rests solely with them.

[Whisper]

On 4/07/2018 3:51 AM, undecided wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>
> Unfortunately no. I was in my dorm when a friend from the soccer varsity team barges in and says 'guys, Pele and Beckenbauer are both on the field'. Literally, I grabbed the >1st piece of paper near me and ran as hard as I could to get there so I would not miss them.
>

Well Done. I managed to get Newk, Rosewall & Roche signatures in person.

[kaennorsing]

Op woensdag 4 juli 2018 13:21:37 UTC+2 schreef Whisper:

Don't individuals make up a team? What else determines a team's succes if not those individuals that create it?

Besides, despite having good teams (Portugal and Argentina), both with a rich football culture and history, neither Messi or CR managed to score a single goal in the knockout stages of any World Cup they played in their career... Should they blame their teammates for this? Would GOATs do that?

And don't you think the real GOAT would have managed to inspire their team to excel and elevate themselves in order to reach the highest heights? Isn't that what becoming the GOAT in a teamsport is all about?

[*skriptis]

kaennorsing <ljub...@hotmail.com> Wrote in message:

> Op woensdag 4 juli 2018 13:21:37 UTC+2 schreef Whisper:
>> On 3/07/2018 10:48 PM, kaennorsing wrote:
>> > Op zondag 1 juli 2018 10:23:16 UTC+2 schreef Whisper:
>> >> On 1/07/2018 8:39 AM, kaennorsing wrote:
>> >>> Op zaterdag 30 juni 2018 21:56:49 UTC+2 schreef *skriptis:
>> >>>> Wow
>> >>>> --
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> ----Android NewsGroup Reader----
>> >>>> http://usenet.sinaapp.com/
>> >>>
>> >>> The question is: How can Messi be considered the GOAT when he fails to win a single World Cup... or even reach a final?
>> >>>
>> >>
>> >> Made final in 2014 & lost narrowly 1-0.
>> >
>> > Alright. So the GOAT that almost won a World Cup once, with the 2nd most successful football nation in World Cup history.
>> >
>> > I guess he can redeem himself in 4 years, at 35. Maybe the team can carry him to the trophy?
>> >
>>
>> Not easy for an individual player to determine a team's success. We
>> shouldn't be so hard on soccer players. Tennis players are a different
>> matter. Their destiny rests solely with them.
>
> Don't individuals make up a team? What else determines a team's succes if not those individuals that create it?
>
> Besides, despite having good teams (Portugal and Argentina), both with a rich football culture and history, neither Messi or CR managed to score a single goal in the knockout stages of any World Cup they played in their career... Should they blame their teammates for this? Would GOATs do that?

To be honest, it's not that simple.

Argentina and especially Portugal haven't been in too many
knockout stage matches during the era of Messi and Ronaldo.


That's not an excuse, quite on the contrary, they should have been
in more knockout stage matches.

But the fact is, they weren't. So it's hard for anyone, including
Messi and Ronaldo, to score if you're not there.


And Messi or Ronaldo can't be the only culprits for their teams
not advancing and reaching those knockout matches. It's a team
sport after all.


So it's a bit more complicated.

Take a look at WC 2010.

Portugal lost to one of the best teams in the history of the game,
tika taka Spain in 1/8 final. Can you blame them for not
advancing further that year?

> And don't you think the real GOAT would have managed to inspire their team to excel and elevate themselves in order to reach the highest heights? Isn't that what becoming the GOAT in a teamsport is all about?

Ronaldo did that in Euro 2016 kinda and he really does have a
smaller team, their Euro triumph is kinda as big as winning the
WC.

But good point, for sure.
Zidane is still #1 achievement goat for modern game.

[joh]

No, it's not. Denmark, Greece and the Netherlands won the Euro.
You're on a nice streak of posting something really stupid each day.

[The Iceberg]

That’s pretty awesome! :D

[*skriptis]

joh <josh...@gmail.com> Wrote in message:

Are you sure?
Have you checked the elo ratings?

[joh]

Yes.

> Have you checked the elo ratings?
>

What? Why would I?

[Whisper]

You make some valid points, but then I can say Federer is not that great
as he only won 1 Davis Cup while Rafa won 4.