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If Borg, Lendl, Muster, Vilas, Guga played same era as Nadal...

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TT

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Apr 20, 2012, 5:20:20 AM4/20/12
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They would share a total of 1 RG title (Rafa was injured).

Goddamn they had it easy!

TennisGuy

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Apr 20, 2012, 5:39:02 AM4/20/12
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On Apr 20, 12:20 pm, TT <as...@usenet.org> wrote:
> They would share a total of 1 RG title (Rafa was injured).
>
> Goddamn they had it easy!

Not so fast Titty!

"If Borg, Lendl, Muster, Vilas, Guga played same era as Nadal.."

You did not state which era specifically, for your hypothetical.

If the 'same era' was the 70's, or 80's, then Nadal would be
struggling just to make contact with the ball off of his small framed
racket.

Do you want to stack ALL the cards in Nadal's favour for this
hypothetical?

Is that really being fair?

Be honest with your reply please (if that's possible).


Iceberg

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Apr 20, 2012, 5:49:20 AM4/20/12
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you're talking about a guy who's so adaptive that he learnt, through
sheer hard work, to win on grass, not only at Queens but at Wimbledon
too. Nadal would probably enjoy learning to use and win with a wooden
racket, it would be a new challenge for him, his topspin would be very
similar to Rod Laver's I expect.

TennisGuy

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Apr 20, 2012, 5:59:03 AM4/20/12
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On Apr 20, 12:49 pm, Iceberg <iceberg.ru...@gmail.com> wrote:

>... his topspin would be very similar to Rod Laver's I expect.

And errrr... Laver's topspin bounced above his opponent's heads? :)



MBDunc

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Apr 20, 2012, 6:25:59 AM4/20/12
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On Apr 20, 12:20 pm, TT <as...@usenet.org> wrote:
> They would share a total of 1 RG title (Rafa was injured).
>
> Goddamn they had it easy!

I had Guga clay BOAT. Then came Nadal.,,,

I am Guga fan but I have no problem to admit that ten clay matches
with prime Nadal & Guga would end up 8-2 to Nadal. Muster would lose
0-10. Vilas/Borg cannot be compared directly due to equipment factor.
(as Vilas had no real chance against Borg so most probably Vilas -
Nadal would end up easy 0-10 against Nadal).

.mikko

TT

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Apr 20, 2012, 6:36:37 AM4/20/12
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20.4.2012 13:25, MBDunc kirjoitti:
> On Apr 20, 12:20 pm, TT<as...@usenet.org> wrote:
>> They would share a total of 1 RG title (Rafa was injured).
>>
>> Goddamn they had it easy!
>
> I had Guga clay BOAT. Then came Nadal.,,,
>
> I am Guga fan but I have no problem to admit that ten clay matches
> with prime Nadal& Guga would end up 8-2 to Nadal. Muster would lose
> 0-10. Vilas/Borg cannot be compared directly due to equipment factor.
> (as Vilas had no real chance against Borg so most probably Vilas -
> Nadal would end up easy 0-10 against Nadal).
>
> .mikko

Yup.

Now also Borg admits Rafa as clay BOAT, finally.

Of course Rafa has been some time already clay GOAT. Then again, GOAT
probably needs to be BOAT as well in order to truly be the GOAT.

TT

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Apr 20, 2012, 6:37:54 AM4/20/12
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20.4.2012 13:25, MBDunc kirjoitti:
> Nadal would end up easy 0-10 against Nadal

I think it would be pretty even. :)

TT

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Apr 20, 2012, 6:52:30 AM4/20/12
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Rafa is now officially Clay GBOAT. Greatest+Best.

Court_1

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Apr 20, 2012, 7:16:31 AM4/20/12
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> Rafa is now officially Clay GBOAT. Greatest+Best.-

Not yet, he needs to win one more FO to shut any doubters up.

Whisper

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Apr 20, 2012, 7:43:17 AM4/20/12
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You think Rafa could generate the same spin with Laver's wood racket?


Whisper

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Apr 20, 2012, 7:57:10 AM4/20/12
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Yep. Rafa knows it too. Must irk him that he's still only level
pegging with Borg at FO with 6 titles. He won't feel like he's really
passed Borg until he wins a 7th.


kaennorsing

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Apr 20, 2012, 8:48:29 AM4/20/12
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Guga might actually do a bit better than 2-8 vs Rafa on clay. He's a
bad match up for Rafa; tall guy with a great serve, consistent hitter
with good power and the ability flatten his shots out from up high on
his backhand side, much like Djoker but with a better reach.

kaennorsing

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Apr 20, 2012, 8:49:28 AM4/20/12
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That would make him FO goat, but he's already clay-goat without a
doubt.

Scott

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Apr 20, 2012, 8:51:55 AM4/20/12
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Rafa would be a soccer player in Laver's era.

Superdave

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Apr 20, 2012, 8:54:26 AM4/20/12
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Would he?

OMHO He probably would not make the "cut".

TT

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Apr 20, 2012, 9:27:33 AM4/20/12
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20.4.2012 15:48, kaennorsing kirjoitti:
> On 20 apr, 12:25, MBDunc<micha...@mail.suomi.net> wrote:
>> On Apr 20, 12:20 pm, TT<as...@usenet.org> wrote:
>>
>>> They would share a total of 1 RG title (Rafa was injured).
>>
>>> Goddamn they had it easy!
>>
>> I had Guga clay BOAT. Then came Nadal.,,,
>>
>> I am Guga fan but I have no problem to admit that ten clay matches
>> with prime Nadal& Guga would end up 8-2 to Nadal. Muster would lose
>> 0-10. Vilas/Borg cannot be compared directly due to equipment factor.
>> (as Vilas had no real chance against Borg so most probably Vilas -
>> Nadal would end up easy 0-10 against Nadal).
>>
>> .mikko
>
> Guga might actually do a bit better than 2-8 vs Rafa on clay. He's a
> bad match up for Rafa; tall guy with a great serve, consistent hitter
> with good power and the ability flatten his shots out from up high on
> his backhand side, much like Djoker but with a better reach.

1 handed backhand.

TT

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Apr 20, 2012, 9:31:51 AM4/20/12
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This

Whisper

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Apr 20, 2012, 9:40:04 AM4/20/12
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On 20/04/2012 10:48 PM, kaennorsing wrote:
> On 20 apr, 12:25, MBDunc<micha...@mail.suomi.net> wrote:
>> On Apr 20, 12:20 pm, TT<as...@usenet.org> wrote:
>>
>>> They would share a total of 1 RG title (Rafa was injured).
>>
>>> Goddamn they had it easy!
>>
>> I had Guga clay BOAT. Then came Nadal.,,,
>>
>> I am Guga fan but I have no problem to admit that ten clay matches
>> with prime Nadal& Guga would end up 8-2 to Nadal. Muster would lose
>> 0-10. Vilas/Borg cannot be compared directly due to equipment factor.
>> (as Vilas had no real chance against Borg so most probably Vilas -
>> Nadal would end up easy 0-10 against Nadal).
>>
>> .mikko
>
> Guga might actually do a bit better than 2-8 vs Rafa on clay. He's a
> bad match up for Rafa; tall guy with a great serve, consistent hitter
> with good power and the ability flatten his shots out from up high on
> his backhand side, much like Djoker but with a better reach.


Yeah he would def give Rafa a big test. Rafa is way more consistent,
but it could be Guga gets up & plays his best stuff v Rafa in FO finals
& beats him a couple times. He did have the ability to hit winners at
critical times on clay, & a lot of balls/heart to go for it.

Whisper

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Apr 20, 2012, 9:42:16 AM4/20/12
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He played a lot more than Borg so created more opportunities to win more
titles. That's not easy to do especially on clay, but really Rafa feels
he needs the 7th FO to make it seem real. Borg didn't play as many
events, but seemed to win them all pretty easily when he did.


Whisper

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Apr 20, 2012, 9:44:52 AM4/20/12
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He beat peak Fed very easily in 2004 FO, even though he was a few yrs
past his last FO win.

MBDunc

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Apr 20, 2012, 9:47:52 AM4/20/12
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On 20 huhti, 16:40, Whisper <beaver...@ozemail.com> wrote:

> > Guga might actually do a bit better than 2-8 vs Rafa on clay. He's a
> > bad match up for Rafa; tall guy with a great serve, consistent hitter
> > with good power and the ability flatten his shots out from up high on
> > his backhand side, much like Djoker but with a better reach.
>
> Yeah he would def give Rafa a big test.  Rafa is way more consistent,
> but it could be Guga gets up & plays his best stuff v Rafa in FO finals
> & beats him a couple times.  He did have the ability to hit winners at
> critical times on clay, & a lot of balls/heart to go for it.

Oh...totally opposite compared to your Kuerten talk 2001-> when he was
always boring bumrooter with no real talent nor weapons...(you rooted
Ferrero back those days, you remember?)

.mikko

TT

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Apr 20, 2012, 10:07:59 AM4/20/12
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Bullshit. Borg's winning percentage on clay is nowhere near Nadal's.

TT

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Apr 20, 2012, 10:08:52 AM4/20/12
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1 match. Quit kiddy stuff.

felangey

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Apr 20, 2012, 10:18:32 AM4/20/12
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>but really Rafa feels he needs the 7th FO to make it seem real.

Was this announced at the same inner circle meeting where "BOAT" was
invented?

bob

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Apr 20, 2012, 10:25:00 AM4/20/12
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On Fri, 20 Apr 2012 12:20:20 +0300, TT <as...@usenet.org> wrote:

>They would share a total of 1 RG title (Rafa was injured).
>Goddamn they had it easy!

we need to make cross era comparisons in as fair a way as we can and
we all fail to do that as much as we should. fact is 10 or 20 yrs from
now, some 15yr old kid will watch tapes of nadal/fed and whatever
monster is #1 of that day and say, "sheesh, that fed/nadal hit like
little girls today." let's keep that in mind in looking at lendl,
borg, muster, vilas, guga, bruguera.

you know, vlado is already doing this in 2012, isn't he? and the more
djokovic beats nadal, it almost gives him cred, doesn't it? so let's
give the same acknowledgement and analysis to the older generation
that we'll give to nadal/fed and djok one day.

my take is same as always. leaving borg out of the picture, nadal
would still win the same FOs against this other field that he wins
now, but he's sweat a helluva lot more more en route.

bob

Scott

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Apr 20, 2012, 10:36:43 AM4/20/12
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I remember the ceaseless tirade against "bumrooters" too! Now he
roots for them--so long as they challenge Fed.

bob

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Apr 20, 2012, 10:47:04 AM4/20/12
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On Fri, 20 Apr 2012 07:36:43 -0700 (PDT), Scott <scot...@yahoo.com>
wrote:
i used the word bumrooter to define a specific type of player, of
which there were many in 90s. "a guy who played nearly always
defensive tennis, and excelled solely on clay."

nadal and djokovic fit neither of those.

bob

Iceberg

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Apr 20, 2012, 11:36:27 AM4/20/12
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On Apr 20, 3:47 pm, bob <stein...@comcast.net> wrote:
> On Fri, 20 Apr 2012 07:36:43 -0700 (PDT), Scott <scott...@yahoo.com>
the Fedfans still try to classify Nadal as a 'defensive player', even
after seeing him hit numerous winners.

Pelle Svanslös

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Apr 20, 2012, 1:41:15 PM4/20/12
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Not all 1 handers are created equal.

--
http://memedepot.com/uploads/2000/2098_steamboat.gif

ca1houn

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Apr 20, 2012, 3:03:30 PM4/20/12
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Thank you for stating that, Federer has problem with Nadal spin
doesn't mean every one hander would. In fact, i don't know why people
even consider fed backhand to be that good, it doesn't look nature and
his technique is wrong. The only thing federer does good is making
sure his head is still

AliAsoag

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Apr 20, 2012, 3:08:37 PM4/20/12
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On Apr 20, 8:25 am, bob <stein...@comcast.net> wrote:
> On Fri, 20 Apr 2012 12:20:20 +0300, TT <as...@usenet.org> wrote:
> >They would share a total of 1 RG title (Rafa was injured).
> >Goddamn they had it easy!
>
> we need to make cross era comparisons in as fair a way as we can and
> we all fail to do that as much as we should. fact is 10 or 20 yrs from
> now, some 15yr old kid will watch tapes of nadal/fed and whatever
> monster is #1 of that day and say, "sheesh, that fed/nadal hit like
> little girls today." let's keep that in mind in looking at lendl,
> borg, muster, vilas, guga, bruguera.

For the first time I have read a somewhat reasonable post from
bobbish.

That's exactly what I have been saying ever since. You can't compare
different generations saying Play A would fare (or would have fared)
better than player. Everyone has to play under same conditions as his
opponents of the same era, and as times goes by with technology
development ..., it's just BS to say things like "if Nadal had to play
Laver with wood racquet ...". You can only compare different
generations by what a player is capable to achieve within his own era.

kaennorsing

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Apr 20, 2012, 3:24:22 PM4/20/12
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Fed of course has a wonderful backhand, but just not from up high. His
is best from low positions whereas Guga's backhand is best at higher
positions because of his extreme (western) grip that allowed him to
really flatten the high ball.

TT

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Apr 20, 2012, 4:26:44 PM4/20/12
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In 2005, 2006 you people (fedfans here) were saying Fed has one of the
best backhands of all time.

Scott

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Apr 20, 2012, 4:28:43 PM4/20/12
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On Apr 20, 10:47 am, bob <stein...@comcast.net> wrote:
> On Fri, 20 Apr 2012 07:36:43 -0700 (PDT), Scott <scott...@yahoo.com>
> bob-
>
At last definitive proof that Whisper = Bob. "I used the word
bumrooter..."

Javier González

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Apr 20, 2012, 5:46:32 PM4/20/12
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Nice catch.

Superdave

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Apr 20, 2012, 9:35:51 PM4/20/12
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He does. Houn is just saying it is not technically perfect. that is different than
being non-effective.

Whisper

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Apr 21, 2012, 2:37:49 AM4/21/12
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On 20/04/2012 10:49 PM, kaennorsing wrote:
Can you be a surface goat if someone else has more of that surface slam
than you?

Court_1

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Apr 21, 2012, 4:18:16 AM4/21/12
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> after seeing him hit numerous winners.-

Nadal is a defensive player! Nobody would dispute that even huge Nadal
fans or Nadal himself. He is the epitome of a defensive tennis player
and he does it better than most if not all tennis players (except
Djokovic who has outdefended Nadal in the last 7 finals they have
played.)

Hitting winners has nothing to do with whether a player is a defensive
player or not. Oh brother! (rolls eyes)

Whisper

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Apr 21, 2012, 4:25:37 AM4/21/12
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On 20/04/2012 11:47 PM, MBDunc wrote:
> On 20 huhti, 16:40, Whisper<beaver...@ozemail.com> wrote:
>
>>> Guga might actually do a bit better than 2-8 vs Rafa on clay. He's a
>>> bad match up for Rafa; tall guy with a great serve, consistent hitter
>>> with good power and the ability flatten his shots out from up high on
>>> his backhand side, much like Djoker but with a better reach.
>>
>> Yeah he would def give Rafa a big test. Rafa is way more consistent,
>> but it could be Guga gets up& plays his best stuff v Rafa in FO finals
>> & beats him a couple times. He did have the ability to hit winners at
>> critical times on clay,& a lot of balls/heart to go for it.
>
> Oh...totally opposite compared to your Kuerten talk 2001-> when he was
> always boring bumrooter with no real talent nor weapons...(you rooted
> Ferrero back those days, you remember?)
>
> .mikko



That type of game would excel today on clay. Also Ferrero had a very
short peak period - even shorter than Courier's. Not sure why? Seems
he won enough & was satisfied?


MBDunc

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Apr 21, 2012, 7:20:47 AM4/21/12
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Guga was great and his prime game was beauty to watch. In my book he
is 2nd on clay BOAT list, when he got his game clicking on noone could
touch him...too bad at the time he started to transfer that game flow
to HC (late 2000 inc YEC, summer 2001)...then came hip injury which
gradually headed him to retirement with only few flashes in a bag
(minor titles, IW final 2003, FO 2004 QF).

Ferrero was basically Djokovic-lite. He maybe had equal FH (on clay)
but lesser at all other areas. Too bad he never came back fully after
his (chicken pox?) injury 2004. Also he was one of those very
"confidence driven" players where bad days at the office could not be
grinded out (a bit like Medvedev or Stich).

.mikko

Superdave

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Apr 21, 2012, 8:03:15 AM4/21/12
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Too bad Rafa ever came back. He shuda been a goner like Coria.

bob

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Apr 21, 2012, 7:39:28 AM4/21/12
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nadal is an offensive and defensive player. the bumrooters were
strictly defensive players.

bob
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