Hingis on Big Mouth Williams
Geo
round with a 6-1 6-1 rout of France's Sarah Pitkowski,
was asked if she had seen the prediction of the tennis
sisters' outspoken father, Richard Williams, that
Venus and Serena would play each other in the
women's final.
"He always has a big mouth," Hingis said about the
elder Williams. "They always talk a lot. It happened
before. It's going to happen again. So I don't really
worry about that."
--
~~~~~~~~~~
George Struk
Natural Light - Black and White Photography
http://www.accesshub.net/naturalight
Coleman E. Howard
John Oliveira <joli...@home.com> wrote in message
news:3xlz3.5246$Kh.5...@news1.gvcl1.bc.home.com...
> Geo <ge...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:010919992237065981%ge...@hotmail.com...
> > The 18-year-old Swiss, after racing into the third
> > round with a 6-1 6-1 rout of France's Sarah Pitkowski,
> > was asked if she had seen the prediction of the tennis
> > sisters' outspoken father, Richard Williams, that
> > Venus and Serena would play each other in the
> > women's final.
> >
> > "He always has a big mouth," Hingis said about the
> > elder Williams. "They always talk a lot. It happened
> > before. It's going to happen again. So I don't really
> > worry about that."
>
>
> John
----------------------
I am a Williams sisters fan, and I don't appreciate that kind of talk
either. IMO, it puts EXTRA pressure on the Venus & Serena. I say let them
play, and may the BEST player win..Later with all the talk. ACTIONS speak
LOUDER THAN WORDS..
I really think all this is PR hype like in the WWF, as if they need it. When
Hingis plays anyone of the Williams sisters, it will be sell out crowd, and
the TV ratings will hit the ceiling. Women's tennis is on a roll.
Again, MAY the best player win, no MATTER who that is.
Coleman
John Oliveira
Rina J.
William's quotes to the girls' themselves. People seem to have an awfully hard
time realizing that they are separate individuals. It makes me laugh that
people still take anything Mr. Williams says seriously. He has poor Tracy
Austin befuddled, I love it.
Tracy Austin kept going on about how Venus is always saying they're going to
be #1 and #2, and I realized that I can't find a quote from Venus over the past
year and a half declaring this, that they would soon be #1 or #2 and take over
the tour. I'm alway hearing Venus saying that she needs to improve if she
hopes to challenge the top girls, she said it again tonight. But I don't
recall her making any statements regarding her definitely becoming #1. It's
usually a commentor, or Mr Williams, but I never hear it from them.
It also makes me wonder why people can accept that other "tennis fathers"
behavior shouldn't be attributed to their daughters, but a lot of people don't
seem to want to do the same thing for Venus or Serena.
You a big Pete Sampras fan?
http://www.egroups.com/group/samprasfanz
Jaguars rule Football! 2000 World Champs!
"and he thought he heard the echoes of a pennywhistle band, and the laughter
from a distant caravan"
Shun Cheung
> Tracy Austin kept going on about how Venus is always saying they're going to
> be #1 and #2, and I realized that I can't find a quote from Venus over the past
> year and a half declaring this, that they would soon be #1 or #2 and take over
> the tour. I'm alway hearing Venus saying that she needs to improve if she
> hopes to challenge the top girls, she said it again tonight. But I don't
> recall her making any statements regarding her definitely becoming #1. It's
> usually a commentor, or Mr Williams, but I never hear it from them.
I sure recall Venus Williams said on "60 Minutes" (US TV program) that
she would definitely become #1, etc. etc. That was like two years ago.
In January, 1998, Venus predicted that she would become #1 before her
18th birthday, which was on June 17 that same year and a little more
than a year ago.
There are a number of other occasions, and of course from Richard
Williams
as well. People aren't making this stuff up.
-- Shun Cheung New Jersey,USA shun(AT)att.net
1999 GS--AO:Jan18-Jan31 FO:May24-Jun 6 W:Jun21-Jul 4 USO:Aug30-Sep12
Preferred Customer
usually obliterating some very important action on the court (break points,
rare foray by a player into the net...) Can't she just tone down the gossipy
chatter which increasingly clutters the airspace? Sadly, she used to be
informative.
Rina J. <dayd...@aol.comandgetit> wrote in message
news:19990901233843...@ng-cj1.aol.com...
. He has poor Tracy
> Austin befuddled, I love it.
Robert B. Waltz
> I am a Williams sisters fan, and I don't appreciate that kind of talk
> either. IMO, it puts EXTRA pressure on the Venus & Serena. I say let them
> play, and may the BEST player win..Later with all the talk. ACTIONS speak
> LOUDER THAN WORDS..
>
> I really think all this is PR hype like in the WWF, as if they need it. When
> Hingis plays anyone of the Williams sisters, it will be sell out crowd, and
> the TV ratings will hit the ceiling. Women's tennis is on a roll.
>
> Again, MAY the best player win, no MATTER who that is.
I'm *not* a Williams fan, of course, but there was an interesting quote
from Venus a day or two ago: Somebody asked her something about how
she felt about all her father's stupid remarks. Speaking to the press,
she said something like, "Well, you print every word he says, don't
you?"
It almost seems as if the press is using Richard Williams the way it
used to use McEnroe: As a way to get something incendiary to work
with. Davenport and Hingis seem to have learned something recently
about the press. Williams hasn't -- and, as a non-player, doesn't
have to.
The press should take Venus's implicit advice, and stop interviewing
Richard Williams. If Venus and Serena decide to open their big mouths,
that's one thing. If Richard Williams wants to open his even bigger
mouth, why is that of any more actual significance than interviewing,
say, my father? :-)
--
Robert B. Waltz
(e-mail address hidden to avoid spam -- you know which text to remove)
Paul Sengaroun
Geo (ge...@hotmail.com) writes:
> The 18-year-old Swiss, after racing into the third
> round with a 6-1 6-1 rout of France's Sarah Pitkowski,
> was asked if she had seen the prediction of the tennis
> sisters' outspoken father, Richard Williams, that
> Venus and Serena would play each other in the
> women's final.
>
> "He always has a big mouth," Hingis said about the
> elder Williams. "They always talk a lot. It happened
> before. It's going to happen again. So I don't really
> worry about that."
>
I can't believe she said that. The Du Maurier open she was asked about
the insults she made to players and she said that she'll stop doing it.
Well now she said "He always has a big mouth"?? c'mon you just can't say
that in the media. Think before you say something. I'm not a Hingis fan
but I like watching her play because of her style but if she continues
to say stuff like that she really doesn't deserve to be the #1 player
in the world.
MassBoy76
anon...@anonymous.com
Serena Williams is much better than her father and her sister Venus,
tho.
On Wed, 1 Sep 1999 22:59:38 -0700, "Coleman E. Howard"
<ceho...@erols.com> wrote:
>
>John Oliveira <joli...@home.com> wrote in message
>news:3xlz3.5246$Kh.5...@news1.gvcl1.bc.home.com...
>> Geo <ge...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:010919992237065981%ge...@hotmail.com...
>> > The 18-year-old Swiss, after racing into the third
>> > round with a 6-1 6-1 rout of France's Sarah Pitkowski,
>> > was asked if she had seen the prediction of the tennis
>> > sisters' outspoken father, Richard Williams, that
>> > Venus and Serena would play each other in the
>> > women's final.
>> >
>> > "He always has a big mouth," Hingis said about the
>> > elder Williams. "They always talk a lot. It happened
>> > before. It's going to happen again. So I don't really
>> > worry about that."
>>
>> Well, she is right.
>>
>> John
>----------------------
>
>I am a Williams sisters fan, and I don't appreciate that kind of talk
>either. IMO, it puts EXTRA pressure on the Venus & Serena. I say let them
>play, and may the BEST player win..Later with all the talk. ACTIONS speak
>LOUDER THAN WORDS..
>
>I really think all this is PR hype like in the WWF, as if they need it. When
>Hingis plays anyone of the Williams sisters, it will be sell out crowd, and
>the TV ratings will hit the ceiling. Women's tennis is on a roll.
>
>Again, MAY the best player win, no MATTER who that is.
>
>Coleman
>
>
>
Glenn Fernandes
years now. A couple of years back Venus was supposed to end the year being
no.1. She has'nt till now, she has'nt even won a slam being in the final
of a slam only once too.
Glenn
On Wed, 1 Sep 1999, Geo wrote:
> The 18-year-old Swiss, after racing into the third
> round with a 6-1 6-1 rout of France's Sarah Pitkowski,
> was asked if she had seen the prediction of the tennis
> sisters' outspoken father, Richard Williams, that
> Venus and Serena would play each other in the
> women's final.
>
> "He always has a big mouth," Hingis said about the
> elder Williams. "They always talk a lot. It happened
> before. It's going to happen again. So I don't really
> worry about that."
>
Xav
wrote:
>
>Geo (ge...@hotmail.com) writes:
>> The 18-year-old Swiss, after racing into the third
>> round with a 6-1 6-1 rout of France's Sarah Pitkowski,
>> was asked if she had seen the prediction of the tennis
>> sisters' outspoken father, Richard Williams, that
>> Venus and Serena would play each other in the
>> women's final.
>>
>> "He always has a big mouth," Hingis said about the
>> elder Williams. "They always talk a lot. It happened
>> before. It's going to happen again. So I don't really
>> worry about that."
>>
>
>I can't believe she said that. The Du Maurier open she was asked about
>the insults she made to players and she said that she'll stop doing it.
>Well now she said "He always has a big mouth"?? c'mon you just can't say
>that in the media. Think before you say something. I'm not a Hingis fan
>but I like watching her play because of her style but if she continues
>to say stuff like that she really doesn't deserve to be the #1 player
>in the world.
Idiot.
Xav
Paul Sengaroun
Sof (s...@noreplay.com) writes:
> Being #1 is about playing tennis. If she's the better player, she
> deserves to be #1. Or did the WTA change the rules without telling ?
>
Yeah about playing tennis and having a positive attitude. Making comments
like "Mauresmo is a gay" "Novotna is too old and slow" is not a good
image for herself. Yeah she's 18.. sure she's a teenager and thinks it's
cool to say those things but she's going to have to learn.
Example look at a young player such as Dokic who's about 16 years old.
She plays at a mature level. She never slams her racquet on the ground.
rugger
Question- What does Venus have to do to beat Hingis?
R. Williams- Just show up. (0-6, 0-6)
* Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet's Discussion Network *
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Rina J.
>>I sure recall Venus Williams said on "60 Minutes" (US TV program) that
she would definitely become #1, etc. etc. That was like two years ago.>>
You just reinforced my point. I said that for the past year and a half, I
haven't heard Venus say she would definitely become #1. You're giving
examples from before that time period. People act like this is something she
says every week at every tournament she plays, and it's not.
>There are a number of other occasions,
When? Over the past year?
>>and of course from Richard
>Williams
>as well.
Venus is not Richard Williams.
Georgiana Gates
>
> Serena, who is just as mouthy as Venus and the old man, said Hingis said this because of her lack of a formal education. Serena all proud of the fact she's learning a foreign language (I think Hingis can already speak 4 or 5).
Well, by tennis standards the Williamses have a lot of education -
both finished high school, right? How many top women players have any
college at all?
Georgiana Gates
I'm not a Hingis fan, but I don't think this remark was so bad. Richard
Williams said something insulting about her first, after all.
Paul Sengaroun
Sof (s...@noreplay.com) writes:
> Now... since you seem to know a lot about tennis, could you please tell
> me how long those players stayed on the number 1 spot ? Hingis has only
> been there for 105 weeks. Great for someone who doesn't deserve it.
>
> I guess you should call WTA and ask for a rule change.
>
Are we speaking the same language here?? I did not say she does not deserve
to be #1 because of her skills but because of her ATTITUDE!
I agree she deserves to be #1 because she's an awesome player and has lots of
skills out there. If you have great attitude and skills that's perfect.
All I'm saying is that if Hingis does not make any stupid comments in
the media I'll respect her. She's still a teenager and is still maturing.
Monica Seles was a perfect example of a #1 player in the world!
Peace..
endles...@yahoo.com
>but I like watching her play because of her style but if she continues
>to say stuff like that she really doesn't deserve to be the #1 player
>in the world.
Why? What has one to do with the other?
And Hingis always speaks her mind. This one is very mild,
compared to the gems she let loose in the past.
The only way to shut her mouth is to beat her consistently,
tournament after tournament, slam after slam. And so far
no one has been able to do that.
Coleman E. Howard
<anon...@anonymous.com> wrote in message news:37ce8789.350501@news...
> Look, the only BAD MOUTHS here are YOU, RICHARD AND VENUS WILLIAMS.
> Serena Williams is much better than her father and her sister Venus,
> tho.
>
You are a DIPSHIT. pure and simple..
Coleman
HEsco51385
>Date: Thu, 02 September 1999 09:15 AM EDT
>Message-id: <7qltae$b...@freenet-news.carleton.ca>
>
>
>Geo (ge...@hotmail.com) writes:
>> The 18-year-old Swiss, after racing into the third
>> round with a 6-1 6-1 rout of France's Sarah Pitkowski,
>> was asked if she had seen the prediction of the tennis
>> sisters' outspoken father, Richard Williams, that
>> Venus and Serena would play each other in the
>> women's final.
>>
>> "He always has a big mouth," Hingis said about the
>> elder Williams. "They always talk a lot. It happened
>> before. It's going to happen again. So I don't really
>> worry about that."
>>
In the original quote Hingis said:" SHE always has a big mouth"
English is not her primary language.
>
>I can't believe she said that. The Du Maurier open she was asked about
>the insults she made to players and she said that she'll stop doing it.
>Well now she said "He always has a big mouth"??
She said: She always has a big mouth.
> c'mon you just can't say
>that in the media. Think before you say something. I'm not a Hingis fan
>but I like watching her play because of her style but if she continues
>to say stuff like that she really doesn't deserve to be the #1 player
>in the world.
Who should "deserve" be #1 in your opinion? How should the rules be changed?
Hernando
>
Robert B. Waltz
Well -- as a footnote, the Williams Sisters are home schooled. They have
completed high school -- but I don't trust a curriculum with Richard
Williams in charge. :-)
So the last top player to complete a *real* high school education
remains Davenport. There are, of course, players who have gone to
college -- but it appears that the highest-ranked female players to have
gone to college seriously are Raymond (#29) and Kremer (#31). (At
least, I think Raymond went to Stanford. I know Kremer did.)
On the other hand, I think Serena's mastery of a second language *is*
more significant than Hingis's (somewhat incomplete) mastery of four
(Hingis is fully fluent in the Slovak dialect of Czech and the Swiss
dialect of German, has fluent but somewhat imperfect English, and
speaks ungrammatical French). Serena started studying foreign
languages when she was much older; that makes it MUCH harder.
This assumes, of course, that Serena *has* mastered whatever it was
she was studying. :-)
Nemanja Dundjerovic
> On the other hand, I think Serena's mastery of a second language *is*
> more significant than Hingis's (somewhat incomplete) mastery of four
> (Hingis is fully fluent in the Slovak dialect of Czech and the Swiss
> dialect of German, has fluent but somewhat imperfect English, and
> speaks ungrammatical French). Serena started studying foreign
> languages when she was much older; that makes it MUCH harder.
Calling it "the Slovak dialect of Czech" is like calling Swedish the "Swedish
dialect of Norwegian". Slovak is a language in its own right. Closely related
to Czech, but not the same. Certainly not its dialect.
Nemanja
Carien
Carien
dar
> So the last top player to complete a *real* high school education
> remains Davenport. There are, of course, players who have gone to
> college -- but it appears that the highest-ranked female players to have
> gone to college seriously are Raymond (#29) and Kremer (#31). (At
> least, I think Raymond went to Stanford.
Standford?! You better hope Marsha (Gator Woman) Strong ain't reading this ...
dar
I know Kremer did.)
>
> On the other hand, I think Serena's mastery of a second language *is*
> more significant than Hingis's (somewhat incomplete) mastery of four
> (Hingis is fully fluent in the Slovak dialect of Czech and the Swiss
> dialect of German, has fluent but somewhat imperfect English, and
> speaks ungrammatical French). Serena started studying foreign
> languages when she was much older; that makes it MUCH harder.
> This assumes, of course, that Serena *has* mastered whatever it was
> she was studying. :-)
--
Will play tennis for food.
Robert B. Waltz
> Calling it "the Slovak dialect of Czech" is like calling Swedish the "Swedish
> dialect of Norwegian". Slovak is a language in its own right. Closely related
> to Czech, but not the same. Certainly not its dialect.
This was what is known as a "political compromise." :-)
At various times, Slovak has been declared to be the same as Czech,
and Czech has been forced down the Slovaks' throats. In this instance,
it wasn't entirely an Ethnic Superiority thing; the idea was to
give the Slovaks a literature, which until the formation of
Czechoslovakia, they had never had.
Now that the Czech Republic and the Slovak Republic are separate,
of course the two languages are declared distinct. It's happening
in the former Yugoslavia, too. (Serb and Croat are now sometimes
considered distinct, and let's not even start on Macedonian and
Bulgarian....) The point is, what people consider separate languages
is often more a political than a linguistic decision. And *I*
certainly don't have the knowledge to sort out the situation!
I wasn't trying to start a fight. I was trying to successfully
split hairs. Obviously it didn't work.
But it's all the Habsburgs' Fault! :-) (If you don't understand
that joke, well, it's another one you don't want me to start
upon....)
Tennis content: Hm -- wonder if this has to do with why Hingis
and Novotna broke off their doubles partnership? :-)
Jacob A Stepaschko
> > Example look at a young player such as Dokic who's about 16 years old.
> > She plays at a mature level. She never slams her racquet on the ground.
She doesn't?
Are you sure?
I thought I read she acted exactly like that in one of the matches at W,
against Alex?
> Besides... I'm not sure about that, but isn't it a bit reductive to say
> that someone is *a* gay ?
Tihi...
---------------------------------------------------------------
If a lawyer and an IRS agent were both drowning, and you could
only save one of them, would you go to lunch or read a book?
---------------------------------------------------------------
Jacob A Stepaschko
> dialect of Norwegian". Slovak is a language in its own right. Closely related
> to Czech, but not the same. Certainly not its dialect.
Nice of you to bring Norway into this ng....
Especially in that way. Would be much more logical to do it the other way
around...
Nemanja Dundjerovic
"Robert B. Waltz" wrote:
> Nemanja Dundjerovic <dnem...@nortelnetworks.com> wrote:
>
> > Calling it "the Slovak dialect of Czech" is like calling Swedish the "Swedish
> > dialect of Norwegian". Slovak is a language in its own right. Closely related
> > to Czech, but not the same. Certainly not its dialect.
>
> This was what is known as a "political compromise." :-)
>
> At various times, Slovak has been declared to be the same as Czech,
> and Czech has been forced down the Slovaks' throats. In this instance,
> it wasn't entirely an Ethnic Superiority thing; the idea was to
> give the Slovaks a literature, which until the formation of
> Czechoslovakia, they had never had.
>
> Now that the Czech Republic and the Slovak Republic are separate,
> of course the two languages are declared distinct. It's happening
> in the former Yugoslavia, too. (Serb and Croat are now sometimes
> considered distinct, and let's not even start on Macedonian and
> Bulgarian....) The point is, what people consider separate languages
> is often more a political than a linguistic decision. And *I*
> certainly don't have the knowledge to sort out the situation!
>
> I wasn't trying to start a fight. I was trying to successfully
> split hairs. Obviously it didn't work.
I'm familiar with the situation in the former Yugoslavia, but the cases are
slightly different. Serbian and Croatian are truly dialects of each other, if that
makes any sense - they don't differ in grammar and syntax, but they do in
phraseology - just like American and British English. There is a more appreciable
difference between Czech and Slovak - perhaps someone with hands-on experience can
back me up here?
I agree about the political point, though. Especially in the fmr Yugoslavia - now
they even have a Bosnian language going, which is really splitting hairs.
> But it's all the Habsburgs' Fault! :-) (If you don't understand
> that joke, well, it's another one you don't want me to start
> upon....)
Oh, come ON, give me a little credit here...
> Tennis content: Hm -- wonder if this has to do with why Hingis
> and Novotna broke off their doubles partnership? :-)
I always wondered which language they communicated in. Anybody know for sure?
Nemanja
Carien
Sof wrote:
> Carien <vanr...@fapse.unige.ch> wrote:
>
> > Same holds for Swiss-German btw.
>
> Isn't Swiss-German a swiss dialect of German ?
>
> That's what my collegues from Bern and Duedingen tell me anyway :-)
hmmm, interesting, my colleagues from St. Gallen and Zuerich get heavily
offended when I refer to Swiss-German as a dialect. Might it be a
regional thing?
Robert B. Waltz
of clarifications....
Nemanja Dundjerovic <dnem...@nortelnetworks.com> wrote:
[ ... ]
> I'm familiar with the situation in the former Yugoslavia, but the cases are
> slightly different. Serbian and Croatian are truly dialects of each
other, if that
> makes any sense - they don't differ in grammar and syntax, but they do in
> phraseology - just like American and British English.
Don't they also use different alphabets? A nitpick, and I'm not trying to
make a political statement here.... :-)
[ ... ]
> > But it's all the Habsburgs' Fault! :-) (If you don't understand
> > that joke, well, it's another one you don't want me to start
> > upon....)
>
> Oh, come ON, give me a little credit here...
I know YOU know. That was addressed to the rest of the audience. :-)
> > Tennis content: Hm -- wonder if this has to do with why Hingis
> > and Novotna broke off their doubles partnership? :-)
>
> I always wondered which language they communicated in. Anybody know for sure?
I heard once, when they hooked up, that they talked in Czech. But I
suspect the commentator knew even less about the situation than I
do. :-)
With those two, I suspect it might have been something of a mixture....
wen...@cix.compulink.co.uk
"shun"@e-mail.addr.in.sig (Shun Cheung) (Shun Cheung) wrote:
> Rina J. wrote:
>
> > Tracy Austin kept going on about how Venus is always saying they're
> > going to
> > be #1 and #2, and I realized that I can't find a quote from Venus
> > over the past
> > year and a half declaring this, that they would soon be #1 or #2 and
> > take over
> > the tour. I'm alway hearing Venus saying that she needs to improve
> > if she
> > hopes to challenge the top girls, she said it again tonight. But I
> > don't
> > recall her making any statements regarding her definitely becoming
> > #1. It's
> > usually a commentor, or Mr Williams, but I never hear it from them.
>
> I sure recall Venus Williams said on "60 Minutes" (US TV program) that
> she would definitely become #1, etc. etc. That was like two years ago.
> In January, 1998, Venus predicted that she would become #1 before her
> 18th birthday, which was on June 17 that same year and a little more
> than a year ago.
>
> There are a number of other occasions, and of course from Richard
> Williams
> as well. People aren't making this stuff up.
>
No, but equally both the Williams sisters seem to have developed a healthy
respect for the other players and most of the time seem quite well-spoken.
It is possible, isn't it? that they've learned something?
wg
Robert B. Waltz
> No, but equally both the Williams sisters seem to have developed a healthy
> respect for the other players and most of the time seem quite well-spoken.
> It is possible, isn't it? that they've learned something?
This will sound surprising coming from me, but I have to agree with
Wendy on this one. In this year when the press is hounding the women
almost to death, they are all getting better.
Venus still says she believes she has the *ability* to become #1 --
but nobody really questioned that. She has the power and the speed;
she even has a certain amount of variety in her game. If she
doesn't make #1, it's because of her head, not the rest of her game.
Venus used to say she *would be* #1. Now she says she "has what it
takes." It's a very different thing. I still don't like her -- but
if Williams had showed up with this attitude (and no father :-),
I wouldn't have a problem with her on the arrogance count.
All the players are learning, really. Most of the time, anyway.
Take Hingis's comment about how the Williams camp always talks
big and she ignores it. What else can she say? "Oh, they're
so big and mean and I'm going to sit in my corner and hide?"
They do talk big, and she does ignore it, and that's what
ALL players do....
After the horror stories of this spring, it seems to me that
all the players have gotten smarter about this. They can still
be surprised (as I think that comment about education was
surprised out of Serena) -- but the players are much less likely
to mis-speak if given time to think.
Let's just hope it continues....
Matthias Neeracher
All of the Swiss German dialects are in roughly the same position vs. German,
i.e., they evolved from the same ancestral roots, but missed a couple of the
phoneme shifts and have a somewhat different grammar and therefore tend to be a
bit harder to decode than the dialects of German spoken in Germany.
The Swiss also tend to resist the label "German dialect" because Swiss German
enjoys a different speaking status. The use of dialect in Germany varies with
location and social status, and the more educated tend to make an effort to
avoid dialect in conversation with each other. The Swiss, on the other hand,
*never* use "proper" (formal, stage) German in conversation with each other and
reserve its use for formal occasions (speeches, parliamentary debates).
Matthias
--
Matthias Neeracher <ne...@iis.ee.ethz.ch> http://www.iis.ee.ethz.ch/~neeri
"And that's why I am going to turn this world upside down, and make
of it a fire so *bright* that someone real will notice"
-- Vernor Vinge, _Tatja Grimm's World_
Luca & Fede
<1dxj2ao.1wn8jmm12qgyuwN@[192.168.1.3]>...
> Paul Sengaroun <ek...@FreeNet.Carleton.CA> wrote:
>
> > Yeah about playing tennis and having a positive attitude. Making
comments
> > like "Mauresmo is a gay" "Novotna is too old and slow" is not a good
> > image for herself.
> For your information, Mauresmo said herself that she was gay. Does that
> make a bad image of Mauresmo ? There is nothing wrong with being gay.
>
> Besides... I'm not sure about that, but isn't it a bit reductive to say
> that someone is *a* gay ?
If I remember well, Hingis said that Mauresmo was "half a man" or something
like that. This is different from saying she was gay (which Mauresmo
admitted herself)
Fede
--
"Io domando al cielo nient'altro che una casa piena di libri e un giardino
pieno di fiori"-Confucio
Richard Wesseling
big mouth have to do with education? I know lots of people with high
education that are arrogant and have a big mouth. Well just look at Serena
herself, first she accuses Hingis of having a big mouth, partly because of
lacking education and now she's doing the exact same thing....with her
education.
I think it has more to do with how children are raised. Anyways, Hingis has
made a friendly gesture toward the Williams family by giving Richard a nice
T-shirt, so it should all be over now
Richard Wesseling
wen...@cix.compulink.co.uk
> Georgiana Gates <ram...@hal-pc.org> wrote:
>
> > rugger wrote:
> > >
> > > Serena, who is just as mouthy as Venus and the old man, said Hingis
> said this because of her lack of a formal education. Serena all proud
> of
> the fact she's learning a foreign language (I think Hingis can already
> speak 4 or 5).
> >
> > Well, by tennis standards the Williamses have a lot of education -
> > both finished high school, right? How many top women players have any
> > college at all?
>
> Well -- as a footnote, the Williams Sisters are home schooled. They have
> completed high school -- but I don't trust a curriculum with Richard
> Williams in charge. :-)
They are supposed also to have taken some community college courses -- so
their home schooling must have been adequate. If you're right about that.
I'm sure I heard schools and grades mentioned in connection with them.
>
> So the last top player to complete a *real* high school education
> remains Davenport. There are, of course, players who have gone to
> college -- but it appears that the highest-ranked female players to have
> gone to college seriously are Raymond (#29) and Kremer (#31). (At
> least, I think Raymond went to Stanford. I know Kremer did.)
I thought Raymond went to Florida.
There should be a few others who have played on college teams. Chanda
Rubin completed high school the same time Davenport did, and MJF also
completed high school (missed her graduation to play a French sf).
>
> On the other hand, I think Serena's mastery of a second language *is*
> more significant than Hingis's (somewhat incomplete) mastery of four
> (Hingis is fully fluent in the Slovak dialect of Czech and the Swiss
> dialect of German, has fluent but somewhat imperfect English, and
> speaks ungrammatical French). Serena started studying foreign
> languages when she was much older; that makes it MUCH harder.
>
> This assumes, of course, that Serena *has* mastered whatever it was
> she was studying. :-)
>
It makes it harder, but four languages still beat two.
wg
Robert B. Waltz
> > Well -- as a footnote, the Williams Sisters are home schooled. They have
> > completed high school -- but I don't trust a curriculum with Richard
> > Williams in charge. :-)
>
> They are supposed also to have taken some community college courses -- so
> their home schooling must have been adequate.
I realize you've been in Britain for a while, but surely you know that
there is only one qualification needed to take introductory courses
as a community college. That qualification being that you're breathing....
>If you're right about that.
> I'm sure I heard schools and grades mentioned in connection with them.
Home schooling is more complicated than it used to be. The Williams Sisters
take classes such as math at a "real" school -- a private academy, in
fact. I'm sure that's where they got the language classes also.
But they take *some* courses at home. And they pick and choose which
they are. So I *still* don't trust the results.
After all, it caused Serena to confuse "formal education" with
"intelligence." (Hint, Serena: Isaac Newton never went to high
school. :-)
> >
> > So the last top player to complete a *real* high school education
> > remains Davenport. There are, of course, players who have gone to
> > college -- but it appears that the highest-ranked female players to have
> > gone to college seriously are Raymond (#29) and Kremer (#31). (At
> > least, I think Raymond went to Stanford. I know Kremer did.)
>
> I thought Raymond went to Florida.
You're probably right. I knew she went to college. I didn't know
the school, and guessed Stanford.
> There should be a few others who have played on college teams. Chanda
> Rubin completed high school the same time Davenport did, and MJF also
> completed high school (missed her graduation to play a French sf).
Even if MJF played with a college team, she is still ranked below
Kremer at present. :-)
[ ... ]
> It makes it harder, but four languages still beat two.
As a sign of intelligence/learning? I don't think that follows.
I'd still give the palm to Serena here; she learned a language
voluntarily, whereas Hingis had no real choice.
I don't think this is something we can actually settle, since
there are no genuine tests for intelligence. All parties in
the dispute clearly fail the "knowing when to keep their
mouths shut" test. :-)
---
Robert B. Waltz (replying from my emergency backup usenet server...)
waltzmn...@skypoint.nospam.com
You know what to take out
NOSPAM4...@webtv.net
waltzmn...@skypoint.com.nospam (Robert B. Waltz) wrote:
>I'm *not* a Williams fan, of course
Of course, you repeat this disclaimer so often, how could we forget?
>but there was an interesting quote from Venus
>a day or two ago: Somebody asked her
>something about how she felt about all her
>father's stupid remarks. Speaking to the press,
>she said something like, "Well, you print every
>word he says, don't you?"
>It almost seems as if the press is using
>Richard Williams the way it used to use
>McEnroe: As a way to get something
>incendiary to work with.
Yup. And still, people like yourself continue to blame Venus & Serena
for the words of thier blowhard father. Why is that?
>The press should take Venus's implicit advice,
>and stop interviewing Richard Williams.
Like that will ever happen...
>If Venus and Serena decide to open their big
>mouths, that's one thing.
Gee Robert, thier mouths appear to be pretty average in size to me. Do
you have some inside medical-examination info, that you can share? Or
are you just engaging in a little "playground name calling"?
>If Richard Williams wants to open his even
>bigger mouth, why is that of any more actual
>significance than interviewing, say, my father?
>:-)
Oh dear, Venus says a few times at the start of her career that she'll
be #1...so she's pegged for life as a "big mouth". Yeesh. And Robert,
those little "smileys" that you tack on the end of every off-color
remark, are not fooling *anyone*.
--Jeff
--to reply, remove 'NOSPAM4'
NOSPAM4...@webtv.net
remoltN...@aol.com (rugger) spewed forth:
>Serena, who is just as mouthy as Venus and
>the old man,
And you know this how....?
>...said Hingis said this because of her lack of a
>formal education. Serena all proud of the fact
>she's learning a foreign language
Not learning dear, *knows* them.
>(I think Hingis can already speak 4 or 5).
Well, you think wrong. She cannot. I know a few Chinese words, does that
mean I *speak* Chinese?
>Question- What does Venus have to do to
>beat Hingis?
>R. Williams- Just show up. (0-6, 0-6)
Question-What do Venus & Serena have to do to stop being blamed for
everything thier idiot father says?
Good day.
NOSPAM4...@webtv.net
ram...@hal-pc.org (Georgiana Gates) wrote:
>>Paul Sengaroun wrote:
>>Geo (ge...@hotmail.com) writes:
>> The
18-year-old Swiss, after
>>racing into the third round with a 6-1
>>6-1 rout of France's Sarah Pitkowski,
>>was asked if she had seen the prediction of
>>the tennis sisters' outspoken father,
>>Richard Williams, that Venus and
>>Serena would play each other in the
>>women's final.
>> "He
always has a big
>>mouth," Hingis said about the elder
>>Williams. "They always talk a lot. It happened
>> before. It's going to happen again. So
>>I don't really worry about that."
>I'm not a Hingis fan, but I don't think this
>remark was so bad. Richard Williams said
>something insulting about her first, after all.
Yes it was "so bad". It was *Richard* Williams who made the comment, yet
Hingis decided to attack *Venus & Serena*. See the difference here? If
she's so educated and speaks "so many" languages (as someone else
recently claimed) you'd think she'd be able to make the distinction and
aim her insults in the correct direction. But she's an insipid little
snot so she chooses not to. She totally deserves to be lambasted for her
continuous arrogant & puerile behavior.
--Jeff
<who loves Hingis as a tennis player but abhors her as a person, at
least when she's being interviewed anyway>
--to reply, remove 'NOSPAM4'
NOSPAM4...@webtv.net
waltzmn...@skypoint.com.nospam (Robert B. Waltz) wrote:
>>Well, by tennis standards the Williamses
>>have a lot of education - both finished high
>>school, right? How many top women players
>>have any college at all?
>Well -- as a footnote, the Williams Sisters are
>home schooled. They have completed high
>school -- but I don't trust a curriculum with
>Richard Williams in charge. :-)
And why is that Robert? Because thier Jewish? (and we know you don't
approve of that, now don't we? And don't make me go dig through Deja to
find the evidence either)
>So the last top player to complete a *real* high
>school education remains Davenport.
A "real" education depends upon the quality of the instruction. I know a
few athletes who have recieved much better educations than full-time
high-school students. So your observation is unfounded.
NOSPAM4...@webtv.net
s...@noreplay.com (Sof) wrote:
>><ek...@FreeNet.Carleton.CA> wrote:
>>Yeah about playing tennis and having a
>>positive attitude. Making comments like
>>"Mauresmo is a gay" "Novotna is too old and
>>slow" is not a good image for herself.
>>Example look at a young player such as
>>Dokic who's about 16 years old. She plays at
>>a mature level. She never slams her racquet
>>on the ground.
>For your information, Mauresmo said herself
>that she was gay. Does that make a bad
>image of Mauresmo ? There is nothing wrong
>with being gay.
Well, for the information of *both* of you, the Hingis quote was that,
"she plays like a man". That's hardly a fact or a compliment, just
another Hingis snot-flick. If Agassi said Sampras "plays like a girl",
that would be uproarious. Somehow people make excuses for *everything*
precious little Martina says & does.
>Besides... I'm not sure about that, but isn't it a
>bit reductive to say that someone is *a* gay ?
We're talking Hingis here, who has hardly mastered proper English.
NOSPAM4...@webtv.net
dayd...@aol.comandgetit (Rina J.) wrote:
>><<I sure recall Venus Williams said on "60
>>Minutes" (US TV program) that
>>she would definitely become #1, etc. etc.
>>That was like two years ago.>>
>You just reinforced my point. I said that for the
>past year and a half, I haven't heard Venus
>say she would definitely become #1. You're
>giving examples from before that time period.
Exactly Rina! Some of these people keep pouring on the tar & feathers
for comments that seemed to have stopped quite awhile back. Funny how
quick they are to forgive Hingis' consistently poor behavior and yet
continue to dredge up old comments from the Williamses.
What a joke.
>People act like this is something she says
>every week at every tournament she plays,
>and it's not.
Right. But they need to have that stone to cast and that one always
seems handy.
>>There are a number of other occasions,
>When? Over the past year?
Ya guys, c'mon.....supply us with some recent examples....
>>and of course from Richard
>>Williams
>>as well.
>Venus is not Richard Williams.
Bullseye. And Mary Pierce is not her father. And Steffi Graf is not her
father. And Stevenson is not her mother. But Venus & Serena on the other
hand.......
NOSPAM4...@webtv.net
waltzmn...@skypoint.com.nospam (Robert B. Waltz) wrote:
>>wen...@cix.compulink.co.uk wrote:
>>No, but equally both the Williams sisters
>>seem to have developed a healthy respect
>>for the other players and most of the time
>>seem quite well-spoken.
>> It is possible, isn't it? that they've learned
>>something?
>Venus used to say she *would be* #1. Now
>she says she "has what it takes." It's a very
>different thing. I still don't like her -- but if
>Williams had showed up with this attitude (and
>no father :-), I wouldn't have a problem with
>her on the arrogance count.
So then you choose to eternally begrudge her because of the past
comments she made? She seems to have grown up, why can't you?
>All the players are learning, really. Most of the
>time, anyway. Take Hingis's comment about
>how the Williams camp always talks big and
>she ignores it. What else can she say? "Oh,
>they're so big and mean and I'm going to sit in
>my corner and hide?"
Another luidcrous example of the lengths people go to, to excuse Hingis
[sigh]. To answer your question though, perhaps she could have said,
"Oh, thier father always says those things, so it's nothing new". But
nope, she freely chooses to be petty & snide and add all the little
bonus remarks. What excuse do you have for that?
>They do talk big, and she does ignore it, and
>that's what ALL players do....
Newsflash: If she truly *did* ignore them, this thread would be
non-existent. And Hingis talks bigger than them all, with comments like,
"I'm not worried, I'm the number 1 player"...as if she's infallible.
I just do *not* get the rampant double-standards in this newsgroup.
cooldude
snotty little way. She still needs to grow up.
j jordan-parks
venus still have to play the game, not him. it sparks
controversy...which fills up seats and creates a ratings bonanza. mr
williams has been criticized for keeping his daughters from playing on
the tour when they were younger. can you imagine the thought of him
telling his daughters to get their education before going on tour? the
nerve...
J
Alan Hanley
Robert B. Waltz wrote in message ...
>> > But it's all the Habsburgs' Fault! :-) (If you don't understand
>> > that joke, well, it's another one you don't want me to start
>> > upon....)
>>
>> Oh, come ON, give me a little credit here...
>
>I know YOU know. That was addressed to the rest of the audience. :-)
They were in The Holy Blood And The Holy Grail, weren't they? (the
Habsburg's that is, not the rest of the audience).
No, I have nothing to contribute. Phphth.
All the best,
Alan.
SomeoneCA
>think ?
That was after she kissed and made up with Papa Williams. I guess she watched
her mouth this time. BTW, this was WTA's idea, not Hingis's.
Fairly recent interview:
``He always has a big mouth,'' Hingis said about the elder Williams. ``They
always talk a lot. It happened before. It's going to happen again. So I don't
really worry about that.''
________________________
[Oj] |::| [Oj] Turntable Rapist
SomeoneCA
>
Yeah, she was asked what she thought about Mr. Williams' prediction. That was
the worst most moronic answer anyone could have said. I know she was kinda
baited by the media but she should have known better.
steffi...@hotmail.com
IMO, you've been pretty hard on Robert for his preference for Martina
over the Williams sisters. Anyone could just as easily accuse you of
having doubles standards by being more "forgiving" of the Williamses
remarks and such than Martina.
And I'm sure a lot of us do not appreciate being lumped together with
the various trolls and the like here at rst. If you let their messages
anger you like you project in your posts in this thread, you've
certainly given them more reason to post rampantly. You want to pick a
fight with Robert, try sending him the messages instead of bringing the
whole newsgroup into this and then accuse the posters of having doubles
standrads.
Everyone is sure to favour one or the other, and it's entirely their
right to do so. IMO, nothing you can say will convince them to change
their opinion.
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Share what you know. Learn what you don't.
steffi...@hotmail.com
>
> >Well -- as a footnote, the Williams Sisters are
> >home schooled. They have completed high
> >school -- but I don't trust a curriculum with
> >Richard Williams in charge. :-)
>
> And why is that Robert? Because thier Jewish? (and we know you don't
> approve of that, now don't we? And don't make me go dig through Deja
> to find the evidence either)
The Williamses are Jewish? I thought Robert was Jewish! Anyway, it can't
have anything to do with racism because Robert's black as well.
steffi...@hotmail.com
> "she plays like a man". That's hardly a fact or a compliment, just
> another Hingis snot-flick. If Agassi said Sampras "plays like a girl",
> that would be uproarious. Somehow people make excuses for *everything*
> precious little Martina says & does.
I thought the quote was "Sie ist ein halber Mann" (directly translated
into English is "She is a half-man", later translated into "She is half
a man", which sounds less mutant-like) or something like that. The way I
took it when I read the original article was that she was referring to
Mauresmo's tennis, but of course, members of the press would jump at the
opportunity to blow it out of proportion.
NOSPAM4...@webtv.net
sof....@noreplay.com (Sof) wrote:
>><NOSPAM4...@webtv.net> wrote:
>><who loves Hingis as a tennis player but
>>abhors her as a person, at least when she's
>>being interviewed anyway>
>Then why don't you just ignore the interviews
>and watch her play ?
Uhh, well, I guess for the same reason people can't ignore the comments
Venus & Serena make. That tends to happen, being a tennis-fan and
all....
>No one forces you to watch or read
>interviews...
Well duh. I freely choose to.
>or maybe you're a student in a journalist class
>and they *make you* read them.
About as much as you're forced to read my posts in this newsgroup. Learn
a thing or two about Usenet and get back to me.
NOSPAM4...@webtv.net
sof....@noreplay.com (Sof) wrote:
>>Besides... I'm not sure about that, but isn't it a
>>bit reductive to say that someone is *a* gay ?
>We're talking Hingis here, who has hardly
>mastered proper English.
>>Hingis' English is far better than mine. I was
>>asking a question. Can't anybody aswer ?
>>Thanks a lot for your HUUUUGE help
You're SOOO welcome. Now....do you really think Martina was being
reductive, or perhaps her english is just a bit choppy?
NOSPAM4...@webtv.net
sof....@noreplay.com (Sof) wrote:
>>><NOSPAM4...@webtv.net> wrote:
>>>...said Hingis said this because of her lack
>>>of
>>>a formal education. Serena all proud of the
>>>fact she's learning a foreign language
>>Not learning dear, *knows* them.
>*them* ?
Yup. "Them" being "more than one".
>What are the languages that Serena speak ?
>I'm just curious.
I couldn't tell you exactly. But if I'm to trust the media and our
faithful commentators, it has been said repeatedly that she speaks
"different languages fluently", so I will trust that they know
what they're talking about.
Claire Abraham
Richard predicts a William/Williams final. That's a tad arrogant and it
puts down the other players.
The press put Hingis on the spot and force her to comment on it. That's
deliberately provoking a fight.
Hingis replies that Richard has a big mouth and she doesn't worry about
it. That's tactless, but pretty accurate, and she was not the one to
bring up the issue. Note that she did not actually put down either of
the sisters. She unwisely responded to the inappropriate comment by
their father.
At this point I'd say everybody was even.
Serena sneers that Hingis said that because she doesn't have a formal
education. Which has absolutely not one thing to do with anything, and
is really hitting below the belt.
Hingis makes a deliberately public gesture of giving Richard a T-Shirt
to settle the matter. When she has time to plan a response to this
flap, she makes it gracious and even a tad humorous.
Hingis, game set and match, and I don't even like the girl.
NOSPAM4...@webtv.net
clai...@flash.net (Claire Abraham) wrote:
>A thought about the Hingis/Williams scuffle.
>Richard predicts a William/Williams final.
>That's a tad arrogant and it puts down the
>other players.
Ohmigawd, it most certainly does *not* "put down" the other players.
Every player is out there to win, and that means beating every one else.
Big deal if someone says so.
>The press put Hingis on the spot and force her
>to comment on it. That's deliberately provoking
>a fight.
They didn't "force" her to make snide remarks. If she was so "on the
spot" or taken back by thier questions, she could have simply said, "no
comment". I wish people would just stop making ridiculous excuses.
>Hingis replies that Richard has a big mouth
>and she doesn't worry about it. That's tactless,
>but pretty accurate, and she was not the one
>to bring up the issue.
You don't even have the story straight (and you're not the first one to
tell it this way either). Hingis did *not* say that Richard had a big
mouth (like she should have), she said *they* have big mouths. Big diff.
> Note that she did not actually put down either
>of the sisters.
And as I just pointed out, you're wrong.
> She unwisely responded to the inappropriate
>comment by their father.
>At this point I'd say everybody was even.
>Serena sneers that Hingis said that because
>she doesn't have a formal education. Which
>has absolutely not one thing to do with
>anything, and is really hitting below the belt.
Well, no, it's not. You only thought so because you had the facts mixed
up. I hope it makes better sense to you now.
>Hingis makes a deliberately public gesture of
>giving Richard a T-Shirt to settle the matter.
"Hi, I just trashed you & your daughters to the press, here's a t-shirt
for ya.......friends?" Yarite. It was a WTA concocted media event.
Nothing more. And it doesn't excuse the fact that she freely chose to
insult Serena & Venus to begin with.
>When she has time to plan a response to this
>flap, she makes it gracious and even a tad
>humorous.
Writing, "To Richard" and autographing a $15 cotton tee-shirt is
"gracious"? Ok, let me see if that works for me next time I get a
speeding ticket.
>Hingis, game set and match, and I don't even
>like the girl.
Nope, Hingis down 2 sets in the PR department and showing no signs of
improvement.
NOSPAM4...@webtv.net
steffi...@hotmail.com wrote:
>The Williamses are Jewish? I thought Robert
>was Jewish! Anyway, it can't have anything to
>do with racism because Robert's black as well.
Who said anything about racism? And a little FYI, it's quite possible to
be racist towards people of your own color or ethnicity. (Not saying
that Robert is or isn't, just noting in general).
NOSPAM4...@webtv.net
steffi...@hotmail.com wrote:
>>In article
>><1581-37D...@newsd-242.iap.bryan
>>.webtv.net>, NOSPAM4...@webtv.net
>>wrote:
>>I just do *not* get the rampant
>>double-standards in this newsgroup.
>IMO, you've been pretty hard on Robert for his
>preference for Martina over the Williams
>sisters.
I don't think I have. He offered some rather suspect reasons for
disliking that family and he liberally dispenses his bain for them here.
That leaves him wide open to detractors who do not share his opinion.
> Anyone could just as easily accuse you of
>having doubles standards by being more
>"forgiving" of the Williamses remarks and such
>than Martina.
The difference being that, the pompous comments that the sisters are
routinely being taken to task for, were made over a year & a half ago.
Martina spews forth doozies on a weekly basis. Forgiveness does take
time.
>And I'm sure a lot of us do not appreciate
>being lumped together with the various trolls
>and the like here at rst.
Well, who lumped you or anyone else in with the trolls? My observation
that there are rampant double-standards in RST, is so vividly correct.
Whether or not that includes you, I do not know.
> If you let their messages anger you like you
>project in your posts in this thread, you've
>certainly given them more reason to post
>rampantly.
Oh, I love that one. Keep silent & don't disagree with them, and they'll
cut the sisters some slack..is that it? Hogwash. And being that text on
a PC has no tone, how do you surmise that I've been angered? Passionate
debate doesn't always equal anger.
> You want to pick a fight with Robert, try
>sending him the messages instead of bringing
>the whole newsgroup into this and then
>accuse the posters of having doubles
>standrads.
I really don't need the preaching. This is a newsgroup. It works like
this:
-Someone posts an opinion
-Someone either agrees or disagrees with that opinion.
That's how it works. I don't need to mail someone privately to voice an
opinion. Robert certainly doesn't keep his dislike for the Williamses
private, so why should I keep my defense for them private? Think about
it.
And if you took the "double-standard" comment personally, well, that's
really your problem, considering I've never even referenced you or
anyone in particular with that statement.
>Everyone is sure to favour one or the other,
>and it's entirely their right to do so.
Exactly, so why are you telling me to take my opinion to private e-mail?
> IMO, nothing you can say will convince them
>to change their opinion.
Ya know, I just find it so amusing that people throw out these bits of
advice when it's Hingis on the whacking side, but not when it's the
Williamses. Now that's a double-standard.
NOSPAM4...@webtv.net
sof....@noreplay.com (Sof) wrote:
>><NOSPAM4...@webtv.net> wrote:
>>About as much as you're forced to read my
>>posts in this newsgroup. Learn a thing or two
>>about Usenet and get back to me.
>Hey ! I never said that you're a nice player and
>that your post annoy me
>?
>Or did I say it ? When ? Can you quote ?
Uhhhh,......huh?
--Jeff
<confused>
--to reply, remove 'NOSPAM4'
p5...@webtv.net
Pete
Rina J.
dishing out . I'm glad someone else is firing right back at her. Everyone
else is always supposed to take the so-called "high-road" when Hingis mouths
off and we're just supposed to accept her giggles and her "Oh, I was just
kidding" explanation.
I don't dislike Hingis, but I think she's been allowed to get away with too
much for too long now. I say good for Serena.
>
>Group: rec.sport.tennis Date: Sun, Sep 5, 1999, 5:51pm (EDT+4) From:
>--Jeff
>
>
>
>--to reply, remove 'NOSPAM4'
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
You a big Pete Sampras fan?
http://www.egroups.com/group/samprasfanz
Jaguars rule Football! 2000 World Champs!
"and he thought he heard the echoes of a pennywhistle band, and the laughter
from a distant caravan"
Claire Abraham
<<<flaming me to kingdom come for having the temerity to think the
Williams family contributed to the fight with Hingis<<<
>
> >Hingis replies that Richard has a big mouth
> >and she doesn't worry about it. That's tactless,
> >but pretty accurate, and she was not the one
> >to bring up the issue.
>
> You don't even have the story straight (and you're not the first one to
> tell it this way either). Hingis did *not* say that Richard had a big
> mouth (like she should have), she said *they* have big mouths.
No, actually, she said "He always has a big mouth." and went on to say
that they talk a lot. She's right. She's also guilty of the same
behavior.
I still maintain that saying a person said something because she doesn't
have a formal education is nonsensical and at least as snide as the big
mouth comment. So na-na-na and na-na-na back. Yawn. The whole thing
is childish and media induced.
And this is why I'm rooting for Lindsay Davenport!
NOSPAM4...@webtv.net
From: clai...@flash.net (Claire Abraham) wrote:
>NOSPAM4...@webtv.net wrote:
><<<flaming me to kingdom come for having
>the temerity to think the Williams family
>contributed to the fight with Hingis<<<
[sigh] Refuting your claims does not equal "flaming you to kingdom
come".
>>>Hingis replies that Richard has a big mouth
>>>and she doesn't worry about it. That's
>>>tactless, but pretty accurate, and she was
>>>not
>>>the one to bring up the issue.
>>You don't even have the story straight (and
>>you're not the first one to tell it this way
>>either).
>>Hingis did *not* say that Richard had a big
>>mouth (like she should have), she said *they*
>>have big mouths.
>No, actually, she said "He always has a big
>mouth." and went on to say that they talk a lot.
>She's right. She's also guilty of the same
>behavior.
This is what she was quoted saying in the Associated Press (this is
taken directly from USA TODAY.com)
~Truce declared for Hingis, Williams family
NEW YORK (AP) - The war of words between Martina Hingis and the Williams
clan - Venus, Serena and Papa Richard - calmed down after a
kiss-and-make-up meeting staged by the WTA Tour to defuse the feud.~
<snip>
~Williams had irked Hingis by predicting his daughters would meet in the
final, a comment that led to some pretty good jibes volleyed back and
forth the last few days. ''They always have a big mouth,'' Hingis had
said.~
Note the "they" not "he".
This is how the quote has been distributed by most media outlets, so I
trust it to be the accurate version. So, IMO, any retaliation by Serena
was well deserved, and quite frankly, I think it hit Martina a little
too close to home.
Rufus
<NOSPAM4...@webtv.net> wrote:
Yeah, she must be crushed.the polished, mature, formally educated aura
of the Williamses just flares right out you. huh?
>
> --Jeff
>
>
>
> --to reply, remove 'NOSPAM4'
--
Rufus
NOSPAM4...@webtv.net
clai...@flash.net (Claire Abraham) wrote:
>NOSPAM4...@webtv.net wrote:
><<<flaming me to kingdom come for having
>the temerity to think the Williams family
>contributed to the fight with Hingis<<<
>>[sigh] Refuting your claims does not equal
>>"flaming you to kingdom come".
>The entire tone of your post was
>condescending.
Ok then, so you think it was condescending. That's still not "flaming".
>Martina stated that Richard had a big mouth. I
>am not confused.
Well the Associated Press articles say otherwise, so do the USA network
commentators who also mentioned the quote. I guess they're all wrong,
and you're right?
>And you have not explained how Martina's
>lack of a formal education had anything at all
>to do with the situation in any way.
I have no need to explain it. The issue here is Hingis provoking
Serena's response by insulting her in the first place. She flung mud
first, so she deserves whatever she gets back.
>If Serena actually wished to counter what
>Martina said, she might have suggested, at
>you did, that it is no crime to express what you
>consider to be the best possible outcome.
Puh-leeze. Hingis gets to do the trashing and everyone else should grin
and bare it? Serena had watched as Hingis publically maligned her
father, sister, and herself. I think her reaction was a pretty typical
response for any teenager who had been humiliated in front of a
worldwide audience. In fact, it was pretty tame.
>What Serena did, in a nutshell, was call
>Martina stupid.
What I got out of it was: Serena was saying if Hingis had traditional
schooling, her social ettiquette would be better, and therefore wouldn't
be making malicious remarks in the tennis world. I don't think Serena
was implying anything about how high Hingis can count or how well she
can spell. At least that's what I got out of it.
>Quite as rude, and in my opinion more so,
>than the Big Mouth comment.
Oh well, an eye for an eye.
>Here she can at best be accused of hypocrisy,
>since she does the same thing the Williams
>family does.
Wrong. The Williams family does not issue direct insults on players
physiques (Mauresmo) age (Novotna) or mouths (Williams). You can make
excuses till the cows come home, but you will never convince me that
Richard Williams saying "my daughters are the best and will be #1", is
the same thing as continually insulting players by name, in the
international press.
> (Venus, I notice, has gotten much wiser with
>her comments in the past year, and for that
>she should be commended.
But she's usually not commended. Instead, most folks continue to dredge
up comments made years ago when she was obviously less experienced with
handling the press.
>Nobody behaved well. Martina was the first to
>reverse that - although it appears the WTA
>had to intervene.
Martina was not the "big person" here. It was the WTA who concocted the
t-shirt exchange. It was not her idea. If you care to visit the sports
page at USA Today.com, you'll be able to read that for yourself.
>And I'm still rooting for Lindsay Davenport.
Good for you. I'm still rooting for a Hingis-Serena final.
Claire Abraham
>
> Group: rec.sport.tennis Date: Sun, Sep 5, 1999, 9:20pm (EDT+4)
> From: clai...@flash.net (Claire Abraham) wrote:
>
> >NOSPAM4...@webtv.net wrote:
> ><<<flaming me to kingdom come for having
> >the temerity to think the Williams family
> >contributed to the fight with Hingis<<<
>
> [sigh] Refuting your claims does not equal "flaming you to kingdom
> come".
The entire tone of your post was condescending. Martina stated that
Richard had a big mouth. I am not confused.
And you have not explained how Martina's lack of a formal education had
anything at all to do with the situation in any way. If Serena actually
wished to counter what Martina said, she might have suggested, at you
did, that it is no crime to express what you consider to be the best
possible outcome. What Serena did, in a nutshell, was call Martina
stupid. Quite as rude, and in my opinion more so, than the Big Mouth
comment. Here she can at best be accused of hypocrisy, since she does
the same thing the Williams family does. (Venus, I notice, has gotten
much wiser with her comments in the past year, and for that she should
be commended. She is in no way at fault here at all, at least as far as
the public can tell.)
Nobody behaved well. Martina was the first to reverse that - although
it appears the WTA had to intervene.
And I'm still rooting for Lindsay Davenport.
Bonnie Barnes
steffi back y
Gary Hack
These younger players could take a lesson from her. She was mature at
16. Martina Hingis knows exactly what she's saying when she makes
comments about Jana and Mauresmo. I am not a fan of the Williams
sisters however, sometimes things shouldn't be said about their father
Gary Hack
never makes her point. Trying to watch a tennis match without her mouth
going would be greatly appreciated. Doesn't any of the other
commentators get annoyed? Her and Virginia Wade are the worst. Love
Mary Carillo. She knows when to say something constructive and doesn't
speak during a crucial point of the game.
John Oliveira
news:4066-37D...@newsd-293.iap.bryant.webtv.net...
> never mind all this hingis/williams malarkey and just bring
> steffi back y
I'll second that.
j
steffi...@hotmail.com
NOSPAM4...@webtv.net wrote:
>
> The difference being that, the pompous comments that the sisters are
> routinely being taken to task for, were made over a year & a half ago.
> Martina spews forth doozies on a weekly basis. Forgiveness does take
> time.
Well, IMO Richard Williams' statements are projected onto his daughters,
which is why they're generally surrounded with a negative air when it
comes to these matters. As a sidenote, I noticed that the NY crowd were
cheering for MJF and Kim Clijsters, although quite a number of fans
interviewed said they were there to se the Williamses.
> Well, who lumped you or anyone else in with the trolls? My observation
> that there are rampant double-standards in RST, is so vividly correct.
> Whether or not that includes you, I do not know.
Your statement created the effect that you felt that no one acts farily
to the Williamses here in rst. I can't help it if your sentence didn't
sound like what you actually mean.
> > If you let their messages anger you like you
> >project in your posts in this thread, you've
> >certainly given them more reason to post
> >rampantly.
>
> Oh, I love that one. Keep silent & don't disagree with them, and
> they'll cut the sisters some slack..is that it? Hogwash. And being
> that text on a PC has no tone, how do you surmise that I've been
> angered?
Choice of words and sentence structure. Reasonable people at rst know
when they see a troll, and it has come to the stage where mostly trolls
are entertaining other trolls here, so it wouldn't be very constructive
trying to point out the "error of their ways". Waitaminute, hasn't this
gone slightly off-topic? :)
> I really don't need the preaching. This is a newsgroup. It works like
> this:
> -Someone posts an opinion
> -Someone either agrees or disagrees with that opinion.
> That's how it works. I don't need to mail someone privately to voice
> an opinion. Robert certainly doesn't keep his dislike for the
> Williamses private, so why should I keep my defense for them private?
> Think about it.
The thing is, you've posted replies flaming Robert in nearly every post
he's made in this thread, pointed directly at him. You don't have to
share with the rest of us when you pick bones with him. His opinions on
the other hand are his opinions on subject matter. It would have helped
if you'd simply written a couple of e-mails challenging Robert's opinion
instead of flaming him in nearly all his posts in this thread.
> Ya know, I just find it so amusing that people throw out these bits of
> advice when it's Hingis on the whacking side, but not when it's the
> Williamses. Now that's a double-standard.
That's double-standards towards *fans* of the players here at rst.
Because we know that Williams bashers are incurable. :) Actually, it's
probably because there are more people in Hingis' camp here that in the
Williamses camp.
steffi...@hotmail.com
NOSPAM4...@webtv.net wrote:
>
> Who said anything about racism? And a little FYI, it's quite possible
> to be racist towards people of your own color or ethnicity. (Not
> saying that Robert is or isn't, just noting in general).
Was just trying to lighten up this thread. I need dar lessons.
wen...@cix.compulink.co.uk
<waltzmn.nospam-...@isd-du-208-238-140-204.isd.net>,
waltzmn...@skypoint.nospam.com (Robert B. Waltz) wrote:
> wen...@cix.compulink.co.uk wrote:
>
> > > Well -- as a footnote, the Williams Sisters are home schooled. They
> > > have
> > > completed high school -- but I don't trust a curriculum with Richard
> > > Williams in charge. :-)
> >
> > They are supposed also to have taken some community college courses
> > -- so their home schooling must have been adequate.
>
> I realize you've been in Britain for a while, but surely you know that
> there is only one qualification needed to take introductory courses
> as a community college. That qualification being that you're
> breathing....
You know, one thing I learned in watching my friends' kids and their
friends is that it's really not a good idea to be so snobbish about
education. Community colleges vary a great deal according to the area
they're in and on what terms you're admitted; they also do make it
possible for people to continue in education who would not be otherwise.
Getting in might not mean anything but it DOES mean something if they
actually PASSED the courses they took.
>
> >If you're right about that.
> > I'm sure I heard schools and grades mentioned in connection with
> > them.
>
> Home schooling is more complicated than it used to be. The Williams
> Sisters
> take classes such as math at a "real" school -- a private academy, in
> fact. I'm sure that's where they got the language classes also.
>
> But they take *some* courses at home. And they pick and choose which
> they are. So I *still* don't trust the results.
>
> After all, it caused Serena to confuse "formal education" with
> "intelligence." (Hint, Serena: Isaac Newton never went to high
> school. :-)
I'm not sure she was confused. Hingis dropped out of school very young.
>
> > >
> > > So the last top player to complete a *real* high school education
> > > remains Davenport. There are, of course, players who have gone to
> > > college -- but it appears that the highest-ranked female players to
> > > have
> > > gone to college seriously are Raymond (#29) and Kremer (#31). (At
> > > least, I think Raymond went to Stanford. I know Kremer did.)
> >
> > I thought Raymond went to Florida.
>
> You're probably right. I knew she went to college. I didn't know
> the school, and guessed Stanford.
>
> > There should be a few others who have played on college teams.
> > Chanda Rubin completed high school the same time Davenport did, and
> > MJF also completed high school (missed her graduation to play a
> > French sf).
>
> Even if MJF played with a college team, she is still ranked below
> Kremer at present. :-)
Oh, come on. MJF has been in the top 20 most of her career, and is a
two-time GS finalist. Her problem is injuries, which could have happened
even if she'd dropped out of school at 12.
wg
Robert B. Waltz
wen...@cix.compulink.co.uk wrote:
[ ... ]
> You know, one thing I learned in watching my friends' kids and their
> friends is that it's really not a good idea to be so snobbish about
> education.
No argument there, and there wasn't meant to be one.
>Community colleges vary a great deal according to the area
> they're in and on what terms you're admitted; they also do make it
> possible for people to continue in education who would not be otherwise.
> Getting in might not mean anything but it DOES mean something if they
> actually PASSED the courses they took.
Well -- I'll agree that they can and do offer good courses. But I
would say that you cannot draw conclusions based on community
college work. A brilliant person can have gone to community
college, or NOT have gone to even a community college. The point
is, because the admission criteria are so low, some of the courses
have to be at an equally low level. (There are community colleges
that teach *reading*, for pity's sake.) Saying, "I took a
community college course" simply doesn't prove anything.
[ ... ]
> > After all, it caused Serena to confuse "formal education" with
> > "intelligence." (Hint, Serena: Isaac Newton never went to high
> > school. :-)
>
> I'm not sure she was confused. Hingis dropped out of school very young.
True. So what? That doesn't say a thing about EITHER of their intelligences.
That's the point I'm getting at. I don't know who would do better on
an IQ test. (Even if one assumes IQ tests mean something, and I don't
believe they do.) Intelligence is not something created by education.
At best, it is *encouraged* by education. But a person with no
formal schooling can be as smart as the most overstuffed professor
in the world. Serena said that Hingis said something stupid because
Hingis wasn't formally educated. No, if Hingis said something
stupid, it's because Hingis says stupid things, not because
she's uneducated.
I thought about putting a smiley on that statement, but I won't.
I mean it. Education is *not* intelligence, and the two should
not be confused -- and on the evidence, Serena *is* confusing
them.
[ ... ]
> > Even if MJF played with a college team, she is still ranked below
> > Kremer at present. :-)
>
> Oh, come on. MJF has been in the top 20 most of her career, and is a
> two-time GS finalist. Her problem is injuries, which could have happened
> even if she'd dropped out of school at 12.
You're nitpicking my nitpick. :-) I was offering a list -- a correct
list, from what I've heard -- of the highest-ranked players to go
to college. I'm not arguing that MJF isn't a better player than
Kremer or Raymond; I believe she is. But that doesn't show on the
ranking list. :-)
---
Robert B. Waltz (replying from my emergency backup usenet server...)
waltzmn...@skypoint.nospam.com
You know what to take out
dar
> wen...@cix.compulink.co.uk wrote:
> > They are supposed also to have taken some community college courses -- so
> > their home schooling must have been adequate.
> I realize you've been in Britain for a while, but surely you know that
> there is only one qualification needed to take introductory courses
> as a community college. That qualification being that you're breathing....
Well, you've got to *want* to. Most players have never made any effort to
take any college classes (heck, even high school classes), even though I
assume they're all breathing. Surely you can find an ounce of admiration
for a girl (and her parents) who are willing to do *something*
intellectual ... even if their standards don't quite match yours.
> After all, it caused Serena to confuse "formal education" with
> "intelligence." (Hint, Serena: Isaac Newton never went to high
> school. :-)
I think Serena was just trying to respond in kind to Martina's bitchy
comment. Give the poor girl some time; she hasn't had all the practice
Martina has had in that area.
> > > So the last top player to complete a *real* high school education
> > > remains Davenport. There are, of course, players who have gone to
> > > college -- but it appears that the highest-ranked female players to have
> > > gone to college seriously are Raymond (#29) and Kremer (#31). (At
> > > least, I think Raymond went to Stanford. I know Kremer did.)
> >
> > I thought Raymond went to Florida.
>
> You're probably right. I knew she went to college. I didn't know
> the school, and guessed Stanford.
You should get these important details straight, Robert, or we'll get
confused about whether you're unintelligent or just not formally educated
well enough :-)
> > It makes it harder, but four languages still beat two.
>
> As a sign of intelligence/learning? I don't think that follows.
> I'd still give the palm to Serena here; she learned a language
> voluntarily, whereas Hingis had no real choice.
> I don't think this is something we can actually settle, since
> there are no genuine tests for intelligence. All parties in
> the dispute clearly fail the "knowing when to keep their
> mouths shut" test. :-)
That, unfortunately, has nothing to do with intelligence, nor with
education, but with temperament.
dar
Robert B. Waltz
> > I realize you've been in Britain for a while, but surely you know that
> > there is only one qualification needed to take introductory courses
> > as a community college. That qualification being that you're breathing....
>
>
> Well, you've got to *want* to. Most players have never made any effort to
> take any college classes (heck, even high school classes), even though I
> assume they're all breathing. Surely you can find an ounce of admiration
> for a girl (and her parents) who are willing to do *something*
> intellectual ... even if their standards don't quite match yours.
*Fashion design* is intellectual?
I don't expect her to go into the sciences; apart from the creationism
thing, I gather Serena is not fond of math. OK, I can accept that
(even if I can't understand it :-). But I refuse to accept fashion
as formal education!
If you'll notice, I've been applauding Serena's desire to learn
foreign languages. It's something more Americans should do. This
is different.
[ ... ]
> > > > So the last top player to complete a *real* high school education
> > > > remains Davenport. There are, of course, players who have gone to
> > > > college -- but it appears that the highest-ranked female players to have
> > > > gone to college seriously are Raymond (#29) and Kremer (#31). (At
> > > > least, I think Raymond went to Stanford. I know Kremer did.)
> > >
> > > I thought Raymond went to Florida.
> >
> > You're probably right. I knew she went to college. I didn't know
> > the school, and guessed Stanford.
>
> You should get these important details straight, Robert, or we'll get
> confused about whether you're unintelligent or just not formally educated
> well enough :-)
Well, I *did* put a disclaimer on it. :-)
[ ... ]
> > I don't think this is something we can actually settle, since
> > there are no genuine tests for intelligence. All parties in
> > the dispute clearly fail the "knowing when to keep their
> > mouths shut" test. :-)
>
> That, unfortunately, has nothing to do with intelligence, nor with
> education, but with temperament.
As I so amply demonstrate, right? :-)
OK, I'm off this thread. I won't read it any more. If anyone wants to
argue, argue amongst yourselves.
dar
> dgo...@emory.edu (dar) wrote:
> > > I realize you've been in Britain for a while, but surely you know that
> > > there is only one qualification needed to take introductory courses
> > > as a community college. That qualification being that you're breathing....
> > Well, you've got to *want* to. Most players have never made any effort to
> > take any college classes (heck, even high school classes), even though I
> > assume they're all breathing. Surely you can find an ounce of admiration
> > for a girl (and her parents) who are willing to do *something*
> > intellectual ... even if their standards don't quite match yours.
> *Fashion design* is intellectual?
In that it requires the use of the intellect, yes. Don't be such a science
snob. I have studied art (at a university even) and found it
intellectually rigorous and fulfilling. If you don't understand how
fashion design *could* challenge and expand one's intellect, then I
suggest you take a course in it. (I hear Sally Struthers offers one you
can take by mail, if you're afraid of the entrance exams at a community
college. ;-)
> I don't expect her to go into the sciences; apart from the creationism
> thing, I gather Serena is not fond of math. OK, I can accept that
> (even if I can't understand it :-). But I refuse to accept fashion
> as formal education!
Formals are very important to education. What else would a girl wear to
the prom?
> > > I don't think this is something we can actually settle, since
> > > there are no genuine tests for intelligence. All parties in
> > > the dispute clearly fail the "knowing when to keep their
> > > mouths shut" test. :-)
> >
> > That, unfortunately, has nothing to do with intelligence, nor with
> > education, but with temperament.
>
> As I so amply demonstrate, right? :-)
>
> OK, I'm off this thread. I won't read it any more. If anyone wants to
> argue, argue amongst yourselves.
Chickenshit <g> .... there's nothing to argue. I would just suggest that
all the left brainers out there stop criticizing the right brainers for
being right brainers, and vice versa.
dar
--
Will play tennis for food.
cooldude
dar wrote:
> waltzmn...@skypoint.nospam.com (Robert B. Waltz) wrote:
>
> > wen...@cix.compulink.co.uk wrote:
>
> > > They are supposed also to have taken some community college courses -- so
> > > their home schooling must have been adequate.
>
> > I realize you've been in Britain for a while, but surely you know that
> > there is only one qualification needed to take introductory courses
> > as a community college. That qualification being that you're breathing....
>
> Well, you've got to *want* to. Most players have never made any effort to
> take any college classes (heck, even high school classes), even though I
> assume they're all breathing. Surely you can find an ounce of admiration
> for a girl (and her parents) who are willing to do *something*
> intellectual ... even if their standards don't quite match yours.
>
> > After all, it caused Serena to confuse "formal education" with
> > "intelligence." (Hint, Serena: Isaac Newton never went to high
> > school. :-)
>
> I think Serena was just trying to respond in kind to Martina's bitchy
> comment. Give the poor girl some time; she hasn't had all the practice
> Martina has had in that area.
>
> > > > So the last top player to complete a *real* high school education
> > > > remains Davenport. There are, of course, players who have gone to
> > > > college -- but it appears that the highest-ranked female players to have
> > > > gone to college seriously are Raymond (#29) and Kremer (#31). (At
> > > > least, I think Raymond went to Stanford. I know Kremer did.)
> > >
> > > I thought Raymond went to Florida.
> >
> > You're probably right. I knew she went to college. I didn't know
> > the school, and guessed Stanford.
>
> You should get these important details straight, Robert, or we'll get
> confused about whether you're unintelligent or just not formally educated
> well enough :-)
>
>
> > > It makes it harder, but four languages still beat two.
> >
> > As a sign of intelligence/learning? I don't think that follows.
> > I'd still give the palm to Serena here; she learned a language
> > voluntarily, whereas Hingis had no real choice.
>
> > I don't think this is something we can actually settle, since
> > there are no genuine tests for intelligence. All parties in
> > the dispute clearly fail the "knowing when to keep their
> > mouths shut" test. :-)
>
> That, unfortunately, has nothing to do with intelligence, nor with
> education, but with temperament.
>
> dar
Serena has it right when she talks about Martina's problems stemming from her
lack of a formal education. Most european kids get at least a State provided
formal education..heck i believe Kournikova put in many hours in the
classroom...Martina spent few hours in classroom getting a formal education!
Zara
And to add my comments to the fray....
They (both Hingis and father Williams) have big attitudes and big mouths,
IMO. Hingis is #1, and has the ego to go right along with it. Venus and
Serena have both been more humble in their quest for glory than their father
has, and in comparison to Hingis.
Bonnie Barnes wrote in message
<4066-37D...@newsd-293.iap.bryant.webtv.net>...
Zara
Gary Hack wrote in message
<1634-37D...@newsd-283.iap.bryant.webtv.net>...
I wasn't fond of Mary Carillo during yesterday's Agassi match. What was with
all that nonsense about the NBA and Jordan?? She wouldn't shut up about it
either, even after J.M. tried to put the ca-bosh on it. She brought it up a
3rd time, trying to explain herself, about a half hour later. I was thinking
'Give it a rest, Mary!'.
Sridhar
>
> Serena has it right when she talks about Martina's problems stemming from her
> lack of a formal education.
problems, what problems ? she has won 5 grand slams - that's 5 more than
the williams sisters and their big daddy together have. someone needed
to shut the old feller up, and hingis is more qualified for the job
than most anyone else (barring graf who's retired, and seles who
looks to be going downhill). anyway, all this counts for shit
- let's see who wins the real fight.
Matthias Neeracher
> Matthias Neeracher <ne...@iis.ee.ethz.ch> wrote:
>> The Swiss, on the other hand, *never* use "proper" (formal, stage) German in
>> conversation with each other and reserve its use for formal occasions
>> (speeches, parliamentary debates).
> Hi Matthias, I didn't know you were reading this newsgoup :-)
Heh.
> I just wanted to add that *the Swiss* also use French or Italien in
> conversation, and in formal occasions :-)
Yes, but do they say soixante-dix? :-)
My remarks were meant to apply to Swiss-German speakers only, and I apologize
if I didn'tmake that distinction sufficiently clear.
Matthias
--
Matthias Neeracher <ne...@iis.ee.ethz.ch> http://www.iis.ee.ethz.ch/~neeri
"Thou shalt not answer questionnaires // Or quizzes upon world affairs,
Nor with compliance // Take any test. Thou shalt not sit
with statisticians nor commit // A social science."
-- W.H. Auden, _Under which lyre_
Claire Abraham
>
> Don't the Williams Sisters both speak "foot in mouth" as a second language?
>
Actually, I think Venus is losing her fluency in that tongue. She's
grown up a lot in the past year, and has learned the art of making
confident statements that don't sound like idle boasts. I'm very glad
to see it, since I suspect she will be a very important force in tennis
for many years to come.
> Robert B. Waltz wrote in message ...
> >Georgiana Gates <ram...@hal-pc.org> wrote:
> >
> >> rugger wrote:
> >> >
> >> > Serena, who is just as mouthy as Venus and the old man, said Hingis
> >said this because of her lack of a formal education. Serena all proud of
> >the fact she's learning a foreign language (I think Hingis can already
> >speak 4 or 5).
> >>
> >> Well, by tennis standards the Williamses have a lot of education -
> >> both finished high school, right? How many top women players have any
> >> college at all?
> >
> >Well -- as a footnote, the Williams Sisters are home schooled. They have
> >completed high school -- but I don't trust a curriculum with Richard
> >Williams in charge. :-)
> >
> >So the last top player to complete a *real* high school education
> >remains Davenport. There are, of course, players who have gone to
> >college -- but it appears that the highest-ranked female players to have
> >gone to college seriously are Raymond (#29) and Kremer (#31). (At
> >least, I think Raymond went to Stanford. I know Kremer did.)
> >
> >On the other hand, I think Serena's mastery of a second language *is*
> >more significant than Hingis's (somewhat incomplete) mastery of four
> >(Hingis is fully fluent in the Slovak dialect of Czech and the Swiss
> >dialect of German, has fluent but somewhat imperfect English, and
> >speaks ungrammatical French). Serena started studying foreign
> >languages when she was much older; that makes it MUCH harder.
> >
> >This assumes, of course, that Serena *has* mastered whatever it was
> >she was studying. :-)
> >
> >--
> >Robert B. Waltz
> >(e-mail address hidden to avoid spam -- you know which text to remove)
>
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DJ
KC wrote:
> Don't the Williams Sisters both speak "foot in mouth" as a second language?
Then again, the "foot in mouth" language you mention is Hingis' first language. I
find it -almost- amusing that Hingis describes the Williams as "big mouths"
(although I may agree with her at times), but she's just as much a big mouth as they
are.
DJ
Coleman E. Howard
DJ <Dj...@aol.com> wrote in message news:37D8A232...@aol.com...
I agree 100%. And let us not forget that Hingis, and the Williams sisters
are still just
TEENAGERS. Dam, don't we all recall the dumb/stupid/stuff we did when we
were teenagers?
Coleman
KC
>Then again, the "foot in mouth" language you mention is Hingis' first
language. I
>find it -almost- amusing that Hingis describes the Williams as "big mouths"
>(although I may agree with her at times), but she's just as much a big
mouth as they
>are.
Yeah, but Hingis can back up her mouth most of the time. Besides, she's
cute and I like her.
Ukrfan
NOSPAM4...@webtv.net wrote:
>>clai...@flash.net (Claire Abraham) wrote:
>>Martina stated that Richard had a big mouth. I
>>am not confused.
>Well the Associated Press articles say otherwise, so do the USA network
>commentators who also mentioned the quote. I guess they're all wrong,
>and you're right?
Q. Does it motivate you more when you see something in
the headlines? Did you hear that Papa Williams predicted
an all-Williams final?
MARTINA HINGIS: He always has a big mouth. They
always talk a lot. It happened before. It's going to happen
again. So I don't really worry about that.
(quote from Hingis, 01 Sep, after Pitkovski match)
Regards, Yury