[OT] Worst American Cities.
mfw...@nospam.usask.ca
Well, a little counterpoint to the English list going around a while ago.
I wish there were some more esoteric choices on there.
I'll start a Canadian list:
i) Salmon Arm, B.C.
-Had a car breakdown there as a child, dump in
the middle of town, ugly, ignorant place in the
middle of some nice wilderness. There's a reason
Trudeau gave the entire town the finger.
ii) Sudbury, ON
-I'll hate to see this place when the plants start
closing.
©N¥ikuli, Williåm©
--
Majiin - version舶俺
Motterman
"©N¥ikuli, Williåm©" wrote:
>
> In the N'East it's Baltimore.
No, maybe 6 or 7 years ago. The Inner Harbor and Camden Yards and Ravens Stadium
really helped the place out.
There's GOT to be a place in New Jersey that's worse.... there just HAS to be. :-0
©N¥ikuli, Williåm©
Well we're talking relatively decent sized cities aren't we?
I find Baltimore dirty. And ugly. And many of the people rude and crass.
--
Majiin - version²°°³
Motterman
It would be less so if there weren't any scousers living there.
D'oh!
j/k :-)
Ian
Jason Maxwell
news:bpv2dk$cc6$1...@tribune.usask.ca...
> http://www.bullymag.com/11.18.03/cities-111803.asp
>
> Well, a little counterpoint to the English list going around a while ago.
> I wish there were some more esoteric choices on there.
>
grew up in Seattle, I can't think of a better place in the country to live.
Of course I just moved to #2 on the list, we'll see how that goes...
Jason
Mhw61
>>
>> No, maybe 6 or 7 years ago. The Inner Harbor and Camden Yards and
>> Ravens Stadium really helped the place out.
>>
>> There's GOT to be a place in New Jersey that's worse.... there just
>> HAS to be. :-0
>
>Well we're talking relatively decent sized cities aren't we?
>
>I find Baltimore dirty. And ugly. And many of the people rude and crass.
>
>--
They're just pissed because people keep calling them a Northeastern city.
Max
"And you know what they said? Well some of it was true"
--The Clash
William
"Motterman" <imo...@REMOVESPAMcbfbusinesssolutions.com> wrote:
> >
> > Well we're talking relatively decent sized cities aren't we?
> >
> > I find Baltimore dirty. And ugly. And many of the people rude and crass.
>
> It would be less so if there weren't any scousers living there.
>
> D'oh!
>
> j/k :-)
I don't live in that hell-hole anyway!
Baltimore must be what Batmans creators envisaged when they created Gotham.
William
"Mhw61" <mh...@aol.com> wrote :
> >> No, maybe 6 or 7 years ago. The Inner Harbor and Camden Yards and
> >> Ravens Stadium really helped the place out.
> >>
> >> There's GOT to be a place in New Jersey that's worse.... there just
> >> HAS to be. :-0
> >
> >Well we're talking relatively decent sized cities aren't we?
> >
> >I find Baltimore dirty. And ugly. And many of the people rude and crass.
> >
> >--
>
> They're just pissed because people keep calling them a Northeastern city.
I don't consider Maryland "south". IMO, the north-east starts from the
Northern Va countries.
William
"Jason Maxwell" <jaso...@cox.net> wrote :
I've heard of Seattle and San Fran referred to as the "most european" cities
in the US.
What's the demographic like there?
Peter Phung
"Jason Maxwell" <jaso...@cox.net> wrote in message
news:YGJwb.7399$9O5.6052@fed1read06...
East-coast bias :)
People who made the poll have probably never stepped in Seattle.
Although, I do have to agree, Seattle is one ugly ugly city.. but the people
are very nice.
Peter
Frankie Boy
It is gorgeous (especially on a nice day)...when it rains, which is often,
it can feel rather gray...
Ugly cities:
Fresno
Bakersfield
Oxnard (all in CA)
San Bernardino (and pretty much everything east of Covina in southern
California-nasty smog and poor planning)
Frank
"William" <sch...@fall.graduationsoon> wrote in message
news:bq01pf$24v$1...@news.umbc.edu...
Coppernob
<sch...@fall.graduationsoon> wrote:
>I've heard of Seattle and San Fran referred to as the "most european" cities
>in the US.
>
>What's the demographic like there?
>
San Francisco is really quite small: about 1 million in population
(number goes up when you include the "Bay Area")
Demographics are very varied, very diverse ethnically, very tollerant
and liberal from a political point of view, an "outdoor" community
(hiking, watersports, etc), enjoys it's food and caffe's, strong arts
community.
Downside: very expensive real estate
Victoria Barrett
<alexn...@despammed.com> wrote:
>San Francisco is really quite small: about 1 million in population
>(number goes up when you include the "Bay Area")
Indeed, the main area of Frisco is small. It's like Amsterdam that
way.
>Demographics are very varied, very diverse ethnically, very tollerant
Hmmm. Perhaps because of the significant East Asian immigrant
communities for which it is famous, but Oakland has the
African-American population. San Francisco itself, that I remember,
has very little.
>and liberal from a political point of view, an "outdoor" community
>(hiking, watersports, etc), enjoys it's food and caffe's, strong arts
>community.
Yes, it's like Chicago in that way, with its beautiful Grant Park and
Navy Pier.
San Francisco is a must-see city in the US. From the Castro to the
wharves. Brilliant city.
>Downside: very expensive real estate
Awful. Most expensive in the US, I reckon?
Victoria Barrett
<sch...@fall.graduationsoon> wrote:
>in the US.
Never having been to Seattle, I can just say that without doubt, for
me at least, it's Boston (New England in general). Home away from home
in civility, quality of intellectual life and cultural pursuits.
One of my other favourite places are Vermont and Maine. Perhaps a bit
twee in autumn, but still charming.
Victoria Barrett
<sch...@fall.graduationsoon> wrote:
>I don't consider Maryland "south". IMO, the north-east starts from the
>Northern Va countries.
I know several staid Old Guard Bal'more families that would wince at
you calling them Northeners. They are definitely Southerners in their
eyes (Wallis Simpson, the Duches of Windsor, spoke with a decided
Southern accent, e.g.).
Victoria Barrett
<sch...@fall.graduationsoon> wrote:
>I don't live in that hell-hole anyway!
>
>Baltimore must be what Batmans creators envisaged when they created Gotham.
Damn! That's some Gotham City, Edward Scissorhands visual. :)
P.S.: My dad was a Fellow at Johns Hopkins for a while, and I remember
visiting my parents in Baltimore as a child. Those tenement flat
buildings and deserted dirty streets, eek. Peckham on a bad day was
prettier.
But I like Baltimore anyway.
Victoria Barrett
<targe...@cox.net> wrote:
>Seattle's ugly-are you kidding?
>
>It is gorgeous (especially on a nice day)...when it rains, which is often,
>it can feel rather gray...
>
>Ugly cities:
>
>Fresno
>Bakersfield
>Oxnard (all in CA)
>San Bernardino (and pretty much everything east of Covina in southern
>California-nasty smog and poor planning)
I think most Americans would say Cleveland, right? The "mistake by the
lake" etc.
There are several rustoleum-needy cities in PA that would no doubt
qualify.
For me, the worst US city has got to be Buffalo. One horse town, and
the horse is on the chili menu tomorrow.
In SoFla:
Hialeah (they closed the historic race track which means that Hialeah
is just Hicksville with a lot of garment factories)
Margate (lots of titty bars and nothing else)
Florida City/Homestead (yuck, awful, awful, godforsaken towns)
In fact, anything with "City" in the title, is to be avoided at all
costs in Florida.
Coppernob
<vbar...@the-beach.net> wrote:
>Hmmm. Perhaps because of the significant East Asian immigrant
>communities for which it is famous, but Oakland has the
>African-American population. San Francisco itself, that I remember,
>has very little.
True Oakland has a greater population but many live in Hunter's Point
and there are vibrant communities in areas like Hayes Valley, Lower
Haight, Potrero Hill. Asian is not just East asian but, especially
with the dotcom industry a lot of Southern Asians have arrived.
>
>>Downside: very expensive real estate
>Awful. Most expensive in the US, I reckon?
I think so. But that is the price to pay if you are sorrounded by
water on three sides.
Victoria Barrett
<alexn...@despammed.com> wrote:
>True Oakland has a greater population but many live in Hunter's Point
>and there are vibrant communities in areas like Hayes Valley, Lower
>Haight, Potrero Hill. Asian is not just East asian but, especially
>with the dotcom industry a lot of Southern Asians have arrived.
That's true! One of the most successful immigrant communities ever,
bless 'em.
>I think so. But that is the price to pay if you are sorrounded by
>water on three sides.
You can come to SoBe and be surrounded by water on TWO sides. My condo
has that beautiful vista (and may I just say, today is an
exceptionally beautiful day. 85F and sun-shiny) of Biscayne Bay and
Atlantic Ocean just to the east. Life is good. :)
Victoria Barrett
wrote:
>I'll start a Canadian list:
>
>i) Salmon Arm, B.C.
>
>-Had a car breakdown there as a child, dump in
>the middle of town, ugly, ignorant place in the
>middle of some nice wilderness. There's a reason
>Trudeau gave the entire town the finger.
Prettiest city in Canada? Vancouver I heard.
Ugliest...Winnipeg?
>ii) Sudbury, ON
>
>-I'll hate to see this place when the plants start
>closing.
Yikes.
Also Thunder Bay...
Krammerhead
Is Salmon Arm even a city, and who in western Canada didn't that asshole
Trudeau give the finger to?
Krammerhead
Richard Henry
"William" <sch...@fall.graduationsoon> wrote in message
1. "Dixie" (a common nickname for the American southeast) starts south of
the Mason-Dixon line, which Mason and Dixon, surveyors, marked out to
separate Pennsylvania (north) from Maryland (south).
2. At the time of the beginning of the American Civil War, Maryland was a
slave-holding state.
Richard Henry
"Frankie Boy" <targe...@cox.net> wrote in message
news:fBMwb.2664$LV1.2067@okepread05...
> Seattle's ugly-are you kidding?
>
> It is gorgeous (especially on a nice day)...when it rains, which is often,
> it can feel rather gray...
>
> Ugly cities:
>
> Fresno
> Bakersfield
> Oxnard (all in CA)
Oxnard suffers the double whammy of the ugliest name for a city.
Krammerhead
Thats probably why Vancouver is the most expensive place to live in
Canada and why you can buy a 3 bedroom home in Winnipeg for $20000 Cdn.
Krammerhead
Silviu-Alin Bacanu
Victoria Barrett wrote:
>On Tue, 25 Nov 2003 09:48:51 -0800, "Frankie Boy"
><targe...@cox.net> wrote:
>
>
>>Seattle's ugly-are you kidding?
>>
>>It is gorgeous (especially on a nice day)...when it rains, which is often,
>>it can feel rather gray...
>>
>>Ugly cities:
>>
>>Fresno
>>Bakersfield
>>Oxnard (all in CA)
>>San Bernardino (and pretty much everything east of Covina in southern
>>California-nasty smog and poor planning)
>>
All southern California has poor planing and smog. It's awful. The
mountains are great though.
>>
>>
>
>I think most Americans would say Cleveland, right? The "mistake by the
>lake" etc.
>
>There are several rustoleum-needy cities in PA that would no doubt
>qualify.
>
Living in Pittsburgh I can say that no PA city is half as derelict as
Eastern Cleveland. One good thing about the
steel bust is that the air is a lot cleaner than in many other parts of
the country :). The last recession was also
a lot shalower here. It had to be because most manufacturing jobs liable
to be lost were lost 10-30 years ago and
the technology industry was not sizeable. Health industry/universities
are very big in Pittsburgh.
Some parts of Philly scared me stiff 8-9 years ago from Greyhound, but
I heard that all that changed lately.
I saw some days ago in USA today that the rust belt fared much better
than the other regions in % job losses.
I guess the thunderbolt does not strike in the same place twice. We let
the southerners and westerners get the title
this recession :).
>
>For me, the worst US city has got to be Buffalo. One horse town, and
>the horse is on the chili menu tomorrow.
>
>
You are right. Buffalo sucks even in the summer. In the winter is 100%
hell though.
Neil Denton
"Krammerhead" <Kramm...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:zfOwb.497591$9l5.256797@pd7tw2no...
Ugliest city in Canada? Without a doubt it has to be Toronto! Closely
followed by Edmonton.
I'd rather live in Slough...
And house prices are affected by far more factors than the prettyness of the
location (work prospects, salary prospects, weather, ....)
Krammerhead
Well I thought all that was being taken was being taken into
consideration when we were talking about "ugly" and "worse" cities. I
didn't think we were literally talking about the how the city looked.
Krammerhead
Thach
>
> "©N¥ikuli, Williåm©" wrote:
>
>
>
> really helped the place out.
>
> There's GOT to be a place in New Jersey that's worse.... there just HAS to be. :-0
Newark -- even at 70 mph
Thach
> I've heard of Seattle and San Fran referred to as the "most european" cities
> in the US.
>
> What's the demographic like there?
Asians every bloody place (and especially in the casinos). I love
Seattles though, even though Alkive isn't a real beach.
Thach
> Although, I do have to agree, Seattle is one ugly ugly city..
You've just earnt yourself a declaration of war. You need new glasses, man?
Jorge Vergara
> You can come to SoBe and be surrounded by water on TWO sides. My condo
> has that beautiful vista (and may I just say, today is an
> exceptionally beautiful day. 85F and sun-shiny) of Biscayne Bay and
> Atlantic Ocean just to the east. Life is good. :)
ohhh I hate it when you do that. BTW, sunshiny here but 35 degrees cooler,
:((
Mhw61
>>in the US.
>
>Never having been to Seattle, I can just say that without doubt, for
>me at least, it's Boston (New England in general). Home away from home
>in civility, quality of intellectual life and cultural pursuits.
New England reminds me of, well, England. Or, perhaps given the order in which
I encountered them, England reminds me of New England.
Now, we can all argue over whether or not England (and the rest of the U.K. are
"European."
Max
"And you know what they said? Well some of it was true"
--The Clash
Victoria Barrett
>Newark -- even at 70 mph
Elizabeth, Hoboken, Union City...
Victoria Barrett
>New England reminds me of, well, England.
Oops, yes, I thought the question was England. *g*
> Or, perhaps given the order in which
>I encountered them, England reminds me of New England.
The grass is silvery-blue rather than grey-greeny, but yes.
>Now, we can all argue over whether or not England (and the rest of the U.K. are
>"European."
Eek. Pass.
Grativo
>
About San Francisco...I've lived across the bay in Oakland for a while, and I'd
say SF has the rudest, nastiest, most agressive panhandlers in any city in
america, and I've been to quite a few of them in my business travels. One
time, a guy asked a little old lady for a three dollars, and she gave him a
dollar and he started screaming at her "I SAID I NEED THREE DOLLARS!!!"...and
he just would not shut the f@%! up. And he wasn't one of those drunk or
mentally ill homeless, either...he was just an A-hole...
Grativo
Victoria Barrett
<bac...@msx.upmc.edu> wrote:
>Living in Pittsburgh I can say that no PA city is half as derelict as
>Eastern Cleveland. One good thing about the
>steel bust is that the air is a lot cleaner than in many other parts of
>the country :). The last recession was also
>a lot shalower here. It had to be because most manufacturing jobs liable
>to be lost were lost 10-30 years ago and
>the technology industry was not sizeable. Health industry/universities
>are very big in Pittsburgh.
Have I been to Pittsburgh? Hmm, can you imagine forgetting such a
thing, but sometimes I just drove around with friends without paying
attention.
> Some parts of Philly scared me stiff 8-9 years ago from Greyhound, but
>I heard that all that changed lately.
I was scared...Philly has a lot of rough parts. People are bloody
rude.
(I just bought a DVD of "Trading Places" today coincidentally :)
>I saw some days ago in USA today that the rust belt fared much better
>than the other regions in % job losses.
>I guess the thunderbolt does not strike in the same place twice. We let
>the southerners and westerners get the title
>this recession :).
Hey there was a Romanian princess nun (yes, can you imagine) somewhere
in PA, I heard. I got a brochure once from her convent in the post.
>You are right. Buffalo sucks even in the summer. In the winter is 100%
>hell though.
Talking of which, it's hot in the summer -- unbearably so, like
Toronto (the scorchingest place in the world in summer, save Arizona I
imagine).
Victoria Barrett
We don't get a lot of panhandlers here in Miami/Mia. Beach (because
it's not a walking city, but a driving one I guess). They said it was
worse in the '70s, but now they are mostly drunks who have access to
an amazing array of "flophouses" with free eats, and drinks. One is
nicknamed "The Camillus Palace" because it's a multi-million dollar
complex near downtown.
simon
Barrett <vbar...@the-beach.net> writes
>Prettiest city in Canada? Vancouver I heard.
Victoria, Victoria.
--
Simon
William
> 1. "Dixie" (a common nickname for the American southeast) starts south of
> the Mason-Dixon line, which Mason and Dixon, surveyors, marked out to
> separate Pennsylvania (north) from Maryland (south).
>
> 2. At the time of the beginning of the American Civil War, Maryland was a
> slave-holding state.
Geographically and historically, Maryland is in the South sure.
But in the contemporary world, it's Northeast. I-270 Corridor & the Greater
Washington DC area, the Dulles Airport corridor, Fairfax county (both VA),
etc are most definitely more "north" culturally than they are "south".
A New Yorkian or Bostonian would be more at home in the DC area than a
Charlestonian would.
Coppernob
>
>he just would not shut the f@%! up. And he wasn't one of those drunk or
>mentally ill homeless, either...he was just an A-hole...
>
LOL! I remember a panhandler infront of the ACT Theatre regailing us
(we were waiting in line for tickets) about the merits of Pirandello's
Enrico IV vs other choices of the year's program in ignoring other
italian playrights like Dario Fo...
Yes there are a lot of panhandlers in SF because the local government
is generous in their treatment of them. Other cities, from what I
understand, prefer to handle the issures of homelessness by driving it
into the next county....
The New mayor will have his hands full because it is a hot topic.
Kwame
>
> Ugliest city in Canada? Without a doubt it has to be Toronto! Closely
> followed by Edmonton.
exxcuuuuuuuuuuse me!
Where in Toronto did you hate?
And please don't say *everything*, be a bit creative
K
mfw...@nospam.usask.ca
: [..]
That wasn't my comment, but I've had a few smoggy days in Toronto stuck
around dirty Yonge St. and the boring Skydome area where I've been
less-than-impressed. Toronto is not a spectacular city in the sense that
Montreal, Vancouver or even Calgary are in terms of first-time
impressions, although I think it's a nice city overall.
Jason Maxwell
news:IlMwb.497407$9l5.320358@pd7tw2no...
>
> Seattle is one ugly ugly city..
>
rain, but that's the weather, not the city.
Jason
Jason Maxwell
>
> "Jason Maxwell" <jaso...@cox.net> wrote :
> > news:bpv2dk$cc6$1...@tribune.usask.ca...
> > > http://www.bullymag.com/11.18.03/cities-111803.asp
> > >
> > > Well, a little counterpoint to the English list going around a while
> ago.
> > > I wish there were some more esoteric choices on there.
> > >
> > grew up in Seattle, I can't think of a better place in the country to
> live.
> >
> > Of course I just moved to #2 on the list, we'll see how that goes...
>
> I've heard of Seattle and San Fran referred to as the "most european"
cities
> in the US.
>
>
influenced by Asian culture. A large International district just east of
the stadiums, Asian restaurants everywhere, and a number of nice Asian
museums. Besides that it's not that different from any other major urban
center in terms of culture, except everyone is more polite.
Seriously, I've been downtown at 2 in the morning with no cars on the
streets. Still nobody jaywalks.
Jason
Bill
"simon" <david...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:UCyI9QEJP9w$Ew...@clara.net...
2nd that - Victoria is one of the most beautiful cities I've been to
anywhere, let alone in Canada.
Vancouver is a close second, though, but the drug epidemic seeps into most
of the city. Most of the heroin in North America comes in through
Vancouver, and it's cheap and plentiful there. There's an area centered
around Hastings & Main which is one of the worst area's in North America for
HIV and IV drug use. People are shooting up on street corners in broad
daylight. It will be interesting to see what the city tries to do about for
the 2010 Olyimpics - it's only a few blocks away from the uber-trendy
downtown core.
Montreal is a fantastic city - if you want a taste of Euorpe without leaving
North America - look no further than Montreal. And cost of living is dirt
cheap. Although it's apparantly going up in price, 2 years ago you could
get a decent 1 bedroom apartment in a central area for $400 - $500 CAD a
month.
b.
Bordon Is Gone
> In the N'East it's Baltimore.
Philly, definitively
Krammerhead
> "simon" <david...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:UCyI9QEJP9w$Ew...@clara.net...
>
>>In message <35a7sv8531flt341c...@4ax.com>, Victoria
>>Barrett <vbar...@the-beach.net> writes
>>
>>>Prettiest city in Canada? Vancouver I heard.
>>
>>Victoria, Victoria.
>
>
> 2nd that - Victoria is one of the most beautiful cities I've been to
> anywhere, let alone in Canada.
>
> Vancouver is a close second, though, but the drug epidemic seeps into most
> of the city. Most of the heroin in North America comes in through
> Vancouver, and it's cheap and plentiful there. There's an area centered
> around Hastings & Main which is one of the worst area's in North America for
> HIV and IV drug use. People are shooting up on street corners in broad
> daylight. It will be interesting to see what the city tries to do about for
> the 2010 Olyimpics - it's only a few blocks away from the uber-trendy
> downtown core.
The drug epidemic seeps in to most of the city? Hastings and Main is
the worst area in North America for HIV and drug use but it's a small
area, and I highly doubt that any Olympic visitors will be visiting it.
Krammerhead
Matthew Nadler
>
> But in the contemporary world, it's Northeast. I-270 Corridor & the Greater
> Washington DC area, the Dulles Airport corridor, Fairfax county (both VA),
> etc are most definitely more "north" culturally than they are "south".
>
> A New Yorkian or Bostonian would be more at home in the DC area than a
> Charlestonian would.
New Yorkian?
Frankie Boy
Oaks/Westlake...
In general you are right...
"Silviu-Alin Bacanu" <bac...@msx.upmc.edu> wrote in message
news:bq0d5r$o1t$1...@usenet01.srv.cis.pitt.edu...
Frankie Boy
(at least as perceived by the rest of the state and nation)
Voting patterns would fit in in Paris....so I would say you are right.
Seattle much less so. However Portland is a smaller-scale version of San
Francisco in many ways.
Frank
"Coppernob" <alexn...@despammed.com> wrote in message
news:s287sv41u3retm1m5...@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 25 Nov 2003 11:59:27 -0500, "William"
> <sch...@fall.graduationsoon> wrote:
>
>
> >I've heard of Seattle and San Fran referred to as the "most european"
cities
> >in the US.
> >
> >What's the demographic like there?
> >
>
> San Francisco is really quite small: about 1 million in population
> (number goes up when you include the "Bay Area")
>
> Demographics are very varied, very diverse ethnically, very tollerant
> and liberal from a political point of view, an "outdoor" community
> (hiking, watersports, etc), enjoys it's food and caffe's, strong arts
> community.
Victoria Barrett
>Vancouver is a close second, though, but the drug epidemic seeps into most
>of the city. Most of the heroin in North America comes in through
>Vancouver, and it's cheap and plentiful there. There's an area centered
>around Hastings & Main which is one of the worst area's in North America for
>HIV and IV drug use. People are shooting up on street corners in broad
>daylight. It will be interesting to see what the city tries to do about for
>the 2010 Olyimpics - it's only a few blocks away from the uber-trendy
>downtown core.
Shame. That's what I heard Oregon is like, Portland in particular (I
had an RSS chum from there, but he just spoke glowingly about it.
However, I saw a reportage on homeless/runaway kids in Portland, of
which it apparently is the US "capital").
>Montreal is a fantastic city - if you want a taste of Euorpe without leaving
>North America - look no further than Montreal. And cost of living is dirt
>cheap. Although it's apparantly going up in price, 2 years ago you could
>get a decent 1 bedroom apartment in a central area for $400 - $500 CAD a
>month.
Montreal is like Buenos Aires. It's got that faux continental
atmosphere, which is not a slam at all. It's like having the best of
both worlds, in fact.
Frankie Boy
but a bargain compared with San Fran, Marin and the peninsula.
Frank
"Victoria Barrett" <vbar...@the-beach.net> wrote in message
news:ig87svcfr3cd9h9ng...@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 25 Nov 2003 10:38:59 -0800, Coppernob
> <alexn...@despammed.com> wrote:
> >San Francisco is really quite small: about 1 million in population
> >(number goes up when you include the "Bay Area")
>
> Indeed, the main area of Frisco is small. It's like Amsterdam that
> way.
>
> >Demographics are very varied, very diverse ethnically, very tollerant
>
> Hmmm. Perhaps because of the significant East Asian immigrant
> communities for which it is famous, but Oakland has the
> African-American population. San Francisco itself, that I remember,
> has very little.
>
> >and liberal from a political point of view, an "outdoor" community
> >(hiking, watersports, etc), enjoys it's food and caffe's, strong arts
> >community.
>
> Yes, it's like Chicago in that way, with its beautiful Grant Park and
> Navy Pier.
>
> San Francisco is a must-see city in the US. From the Castro to the
> wharves. Brilliant city.
>
> >Downside: very expensive real estate
>
> Awful. Most expensive in the US, I reckon?
Victoria Barrett
<targe...@cox.net> wrote:
>San Francisco and the bay area in general are where the "loony lefties" live
>(at least as perceived by the rest of the state and nation)
>
>Voting patterns would fit in in Paris....so I would say you are right.
Frankie, Frankie. You just don't learn, boyo. ;) Oh well, as long as
there is a massive poxy sniper thread, people can't take shake you
down for spouting off about your views, I guess.
>Seattle much less so. However Portland is a smaller-scale version of San
>Francisco in many ways.
I'd love to visit Seattle. As you can imagine, rainy weather doesn't
faze me at all, but when is the best time to visit this fair city?
Renaud Dreyer
"Frankie Boy" <targe...@cox.net> wrote:
> San Francisco and the bay area in general are where the "loony lefties" live
> (at least as perceived by the rest of the state and nation)
>
> Voting patterns would fit in in Paris....so I would say you are right.
Paris, the city that had Jacques Chirac as mayor for 17 years? You might
want to recheck your "voting patterns". Ciao,
Renaud Dreyer
Huw Morris
> Victoria, Victoria.
Oh come on! Do you have to turn *every* thread into a slam against VB!?
:-)
Huw
Ed-D
news:cPHwb.19271$Rk5....@newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net...
> In the N'East it's Baltimore.
>
no way. Philly is much worse than Baltimore.
>
>
> --
> Majiin - version²°°³
>
>
Ed-D
news:3FC35248...@REMOVESPAMcbfbusinesssolutions.com...
>
>
> "©N¥ikuli, Williåm©" wrote:
> >
> > In the N'East it's Baltimore.
>
Stadium
> really helped the place out.
>
That was actually more like 10-15 years ago. Camden Yards opened in '92, at
which point the harbor was already thriving.
> There's GOT to be a place in New Jersey that's worse.... there just HAS to
> be. :-0
Camden
Ed-D
> Motterman wrote:
> > "©N¥ikuli, Williåm©" wrote:
> >>
> >> In the N'East it's Baltimore.
> >
> > No, maybe 6 or 7 years ago. The Inner Harbor and Camden Yards and
> > Ravens Stadium really helped the place out.
> >
> > HAS to be. :-0
>
>
> I find Baltimore dirty. And ugly. And many of the people rude and crass.
>
Ever been to New York? LOL
Or Philly?
> --
> Majiin - version²°°³
>
>
Ed-D
> On Tue, 25 Nov 2003 21:04:50 GMT, Thach <neop...@yahoo00.com> wrote:
> >Newark -- even at 70 mph
>
> Elizabeth, Hoboken, Union City...
when was the last time you were in Hoboken? It's a totally hip place now. Even
Newark is coming around...it has a long way to go, sure...but it is coming
around
Ed-D
<mfw...@nospam.usask.ca> wrote in message
news:bpv2dk$cc6$1...@tribune.usask.ca...
> http://www.bullymag.com/11.18.03/cities-111803.asp
>
> Well, a little counterpoint to the English list going around a while ago.
> I wish there were some more esoteric choices on there.
>
I don't know if I agree with that list at all. Many of those cities are on TOP
ten lists. There doesn't seem to be any kind of objective criteria. More like
the writer's top ten places he holds grudges against, for whatever reason.
> I'll start a Canadian list:
>
> i) Salmon Arm, B.C.
>
> -Had a car breakdown there as a child, dump in
> the middle of town, ugly, ignorant place in the
> middle of some nice wilderness. There's a reason
> Trudeau gave the entire town the finger.
>
> ii) Sudbury, ON
>
> -I'll hate to see this place when the plants start
> closing.
>
>
Ed-D
> > > http://www.bullymag.com/11.18.03/cities-111803.asp
> > >
> > > Well, a little counterpoint to the English list going around a while
> ago.
> > > I wish there were some more esoteric choices on there.
> > >
> > grew up in Seattle, I can't think of a better place in the country to
> live.
> >
> > Of course I just moved to #2 on the list, we'll see how that goes...
>
> in the US.
>
and that's a good thing?
> What's the demographic like there?
mainly homegeneous whitefolk. Which makes sense, considering they're "most
european"
>
>
Ed-D
> On 25 Nov 2003 21:57:32 GMT, gra...@aol.com (Grativo) wrote:
>
> >
> >he just would not shut the f@%! up. And he wasn't one of those drunk or
> >mentally ill homeless, either...he was just an A-hole...
> >
> LOL! I remember a panhandler infront of the ACT Theatre regailing us
> (we were waiting in line for tickets) about the merits of Pirandello's
> Enrico IV vs other choices of the year's program in ignoring other
> italian playrights like Dario Fo...
>
> Yes there are a lot of panhandlers in SF because the local government
> is generous in their treatment of them.
ah so THAT'S what they meant with the "most european" status
Ed-D
"Jason Maxwell" <jaso...@cox.net> wrote in message
news:hYSwb.7457$9O5.4274@fed1read06...
sounds like Germany LOL
Ed-D
news:zfOwb.497591$9l5.256797@pd7tw2no...
> Victoria Barrett wrote:
>
> > On Tue, 25 Nov 2003 08:04:05 +0000 (UTC), mfw...@nospam.usask.ca
> > wrote:
> >
> >>I'll start a Canadian list:
> >>
> >>i) Salmon Arm, B.C.
> >>
> >>-Had a car breakdown there as a child, dump in
> >>the middle of town, ugly, ignorant place in the
> >>middle of some nice wilderness. There's a reason
> >>Trudeau gave the entire town the finger.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >>ii) Sudbury, ON
> >>
> >>-I'll hate to see this place when the plants start
> >>closing.
> >
> >
> >
> > Also Thunder Bay...
>
> Thats probably why Vancouver is the most expensive place to live in
> Canada and why you can buy a 3 bedroom home in Winnipeg for $20000 Cdn.
>
Montreal, on the other hand, is both cheap AND nice. (and, I might add,
"European"...though I still am not quite sure what that means)
> Krammerhead
>
Bill
> Bill wrote:
> > "simon" <david...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> > news:UCyI9QEJP9w$Ew...@clara.net...
> >
> >>In message <35a7sv8531flt341c...@4ax.com>, Victoria
> >>Barrett <vbar...@the-beach.net> writes
> >>
> >>>Prettiest city in Canada? Vancouver I heard.
> >>
> >>Victoria, Victoria.
> >
> >
> > 2nd that - Victoria is one of the most beautiful cities I've been to
> > anywhere, let alone in Canada.
> >
> > Vancouver is a close second, though, but the drug epidemic seeps into
most
> > of the city. Most of the heroin in North America comes in through
> > Vancouver, and it's cheap and plentiful there. There's an area centered
> > around Hastings & Main which is one of the worst area's in North America
for
> > HIV and IV drug use. People are shooting up on street corners in broad
> > daylight. It will be interesting to see what the city tries to do about
for
> > the 2010 Olyimpics - it's only a few blocks away from the uber-trendy
> > downtown core.
>
> The drug epidemic seeps in to most of the city?
Into Vancouver proper, yes. Not to the same extent, but it's there.
>Hastings and Main is
> the worst area in North America for HIV and drug use but it's a small
> area, and I highly doubt that any Olympic visitors will be visiting it.
I disagree. Robson street will be nuts, people on foot will end up
wandering into that area by mistake - I did while shopping on Robsin the
first time I was there. The powers that be are already talking about how to
deal with the "problem" - they don't want the world to see that and
associate it with Van.
b.
Jason Maxwell
>
> I'd love to visit Seattle. As you can imagine, rainy weather doesn't
> faze me at all, but when is the best time to visit this fair city?
>
people about it and nobody else will want to move there! 8-)
Actually late-August/early-September is a great time to visit. We usually
get really good "Indian Summers."
Jason
simon
<n...@spam.please> writes
>On Tue, 25 Nov 2003 22:12:25 +0000, simon wrote:
>
>> Victoria, Victoria.
>
>Oh come on! Do you have to turn *every* thread into a slam against VB!?
It's a Kinks song! I thought I was being very pithy. :-)
>:-)
>
>Huw
--
Simon
Frankie Boy
from what I understand is by French standards he is a bit right of
center....
Different cultures, different views of the world....
Frank
"Renaud Dreyer" <rdr...@math.berkeley.edu> wrote in message
news:rdreyer-D40648...@netnews.attbi.com...
Frankie Boy
I gather....
Frank
"Ed-D" <rado4...@sneakemail.com> wrote in message
news:jb%wb.5814$nP3....@nwrdny03.gnilink.net...
Big Daddy T
>
> I'd love to visit Seattle. As you can imagine, rainy weather doesn't
> faze me at all, but when is the best time to visit this fair city?
In the Summer when it doesn't rain as much. I had the pleasure of
visiting Seattle for a week in July and it was wonderful. Beautiful
city, very friendly people - I have no idea what it's doing on the
worst 10 list. The author isn't well travelled, I reckon or simply
hasn't spent enough time in many American cities to really judge.
T
Grativo
>is generous in their treatment of them.
Only in SF, would there be a pro-homeless demonstration at city hall, because
they say homeless need cold, hard cash, instead of housing vouchers and
subsidized child care.
Grativo
Renaud Dreyer
"Ed-D" <rado4...@sneakemail.com> wrote:
San Francisco has large populations of Asian and Hispanic origin. Ciao,
Renaud Dreyer
Victoria Barrett
<rdr...@math.berkeley.edu> wrote:
>San Francisco has large populations of Asian and Hispanic origin. Ciao,
The really Old Spanish families (the ones descended from Spaniards who
came 300 years ago, not the ones of Mexican origin, etc.) live in San
Francisco, don't they? I forget if there or Los Angeles mostly.
Seems to me, Jeff Garcia is a perfect fit for Frisco on so many
levels.
Krammerhead
How on earth would one wander into Hastings and Main from Robson street?
It's quite a bit of distance. Anyway, I was in the area you speak
last Friday it's not as if you'll get mugged or killed if you accidently
go down there.
Krammerhead
LocNLoaded
>hasn't spent enough time in many American cities to really judge.
>
I've been to Seattle and was wondering the same thing. It's a great place.
The author really must have something against Ohio. Picking on Toledo? C'mon...
Cleveland isn't that bad no matter how much the author thinks we're in denial.
I've never heard anyone compare Cleveland to NYC or Chicago and I've lived here
all my life. Cinci is crud though. That I agree with. In fact the whole central
and southern part of the state just make me wanna be sick.
Why not Pittsburgh for numero uno? Western Pa. is just one big hill billy
breeding ground and it scares me.
Mike
Youngstown, OH
Ed-D
> I work with a guy who is in Hoboken-the waterfront is quite trendy from what
> I gather....
>
absolutely. But if you haven't been anywhere near there in 10+ years I
can understand how you might have the impression that it's a dump.
i.deardo
argument.... ;) Pittsburgh has it's bad bits, but also has a lot of
cultural/architectural/entertainment spots. And a USAir hub if you get
tired of it....direct flights to Gatwick and Frankfurt among others.... ;)
Ian
"LocNLoaded" <locnl...@aol.comnojunk> wrote in message
news:20031126151201...@mb-m28.aol.com...
Diabolik
> news:moj7svg3dtv2mh8ci...@4ax.com...
> > On Tue, 25 Nov 2003 21:04:50 GMT, Thach <neop...@yahoo00.com> wrote:
> > >Newark -- even at 70 mph
> >
> > Elizabeth, Hoboken, Union City...
>
> when was the last time you were in Hoboken? It's a totally hip place now.
Even
> Newark is coming around...
But it's still a dump, like most of New Jersey.
Ed-D
that's the San Francisco AREA, not the city proper. The city proper has
nothing but white homos.
> Renaud Dreyer
Renaud Dreyer
"Ed-D" <rado4...@sneakemail.com> wrote:
No:
http://www.city-data.com/city/San-Francisco-California.html
Races in San Francisco:
White Non-Hispanic (43.6%)
Chinese (19.6%)
Hispanic (14.1%)
Black (7.8%)
Other race (6.5%)
Filipino (5.2%)
Two or more races (4.3%)
Other Asian (1.5%)
Japanese (1.5%)
Vietnamese (1.4%)
American Indian (1.2%)
Korean (1.0%)
Asian Indian (0.7%)
Ciao,
Renaud Dreyer
>
> > Renaud Dreyer
>
Frankie Boy
Californian.(descended from Pico)
This is a VERY small number (maybe about 10,000 descendants) in and around
the state-mostly in southern California.
Many married into Irish (the Catholic thing) or other English-speaking
families after the US took over; most, but not all, lost their lands;
however some fortunes are still relatively intact (Dominguez, the site of
the Home Depot soccer stadium, was kept in the family and sold off to
develop the current towns of Carson, Compton, etc); also the owners of south
Orange County (O'Neill/Moiso) I believe were Ortega descendants and again
developed Mission Viejo, etc.
Camarillo (Ventura County) still has family descendants living in the area
and the last Dona Camarillo died about 7 years or so well in her 90's...
There is a chapter in a book called "America's Secret Aristocracy" by
Stephen Birmingham that discusses this topic (along with that of many of the
old descendents of the Mayflower, original Dutch settlers of New York,
etc. )
Frank
"Victoria Barrett" <vbar...@the-beach.net> wrote in message
news:asr9sv8c6u4m79gqt...@4ax.com...
Frankie Boy
Spain-my wife's dad in Mexico is pure Spanish and a direct descendant of a
Spanish land grant that were major landowners till about two generations
ago.
"Frankie Boy" <targe...@cox.net> wrote in message
news:xCjxb.6893$LV1.4008@okepread05...
Daniel R. Smith
wrote:
>http://www.bullymag.com/11.18.03/cities-111803.asp
WERE NUMBER FIVE!
WERE NUMBER FIVE!
Seriously though, the description of Cincinnati in that article is
pretty much on the button. Harsh but fair. Go Bengals, though.
Coppernob
wrote:
>
>that's the San Francisco AREA, not the city proper. The city proper has
>nothing but white homos.
>
LOL! Have you ever been to SF?
Do you know who lives in Mission? Richmond? Sunset? Hunter's Pont,
Excelsior? Tenderloin? Potrero Hill? Bernal Hill?
Heck even the demographics of Castro, the gay neigbourhood, is not
even 70% white....
Victoria Barrett
Hernandez) wrote:
Yasuhiro! Welcome back, lad!
>Windsor Ontario is a shithole!
I'll second that motion. *groan*
>Hey all,
>
>Just got back from two months in New Delhi teaching American
>business/technical English for a US company that is aggressively
>involved in replacing $12.50/hour employees in the American workforce
>with $12.50/day Indian anglophones.
That's awesome! How did you like it?
> The people I trained were lovely
>and hardworking, but I still feel really sleazy for knowingly taking
>part in this trend. I think I need a career change. Anyone with
>recommendations for a career that would involve a couple years of
>training/education that would give me some hot marketable skills? Half
>joking here, but ___??
Don't look at me, since I preceeded you by a few years in this
venture. I taught Indonesians English for basically the same reasons.
(Also Japanese businessmen, but that's not really supporting my thesis
of "raping the global village" is it? ;).
>How is everyone? Didja get the whole school thing straightened out,
>VB?
Oh yes...erm...eh? :)
Well I am safely finishing my first semester of my 2nd year, so I
guess when I started, you weren't around.
> Glad to see that you are still posting.
When the end of the world comes, Yasu, it'll be me and the cockroaches
left. Only I still will be posting on RSS not them. :)
> Has the Doctor been
>crowing up about Arsenal recently?
Has he! Well.
>I was going to write about my perceptions of footie-mad, nay, make
>that footie-INSANE India,
You're joking. My word, I never thought that, since traditionally only
certain pockets of India were footie-mad, I thought (mostly in the
South, I heard).
> but since you've started the worst city
>thread I'll make a few remarks. There are some real eyesores in India,
>of course, but this is about the US.
You mean "Mysore in India" surely?
...I'll get me hat and coat. ;)
>c)I personally find Phoenix, Dallas, and Anchorage to be unpleasant.
>Sprawl sprawl sprawl, and little charm or peronality.
Never been to Phoenix, or Anchorage, but I have to Dallas...let's just
say it's dusty and the highway roads suck. Oh yeah, and the grassy
knoll is tiny.
Victoria Barrett
to pile on the anti-Glaswegian critques, what with Sven not exactly
lovin' it in around there. Since I am part Scots, I have a deep and
abiding fondness for that land, but I admit, sometimes it's a bit dire
regarding physique and health.
(Sven's remark about anorexic showers made me kinda laugh, since I
remember far too many overweight Scots whenever I visited)
Here is a report from the BBC about life expectancy in Glasgow,
compared to other cities/nations:
LOWEST MALE LIFE EXPECTANCY
Glasgow - 68.7
Manchester - 69.8
Inverclyde - 70.3
West Dunbartonshire - 70.8
Renfrewshire - 71.7
Dundee - 71.8
North Lanarkshire - 71.8
Blackpool - 72
Liverpool - 72
Western Isles - 72.3
LOWEST FEMALE LIFE EXPECTANCY
Glasgow - 76.2
Manchester - 76.5
East Ayrshire - 76.7
West Dunbartonshire - 77.2
Inverclyde - 77.2
Liverpool - 77.3
North Lanarkshire - 77.5
Wansbeck - 77.6
Merthyr Tydfil - 77.6
Renfrewshire - 77.7
People living in Glasgow have the lowest life expectancy in the UK,
according to statistics.
The average lifespan of men in the city is more than a decade shorter
than in North Dorset, which tops the list for longevity.
The Office for National Statistics survey said that the life
expectancy for women was 7.2 years less than in West Somerset.
Health officials blamed poverty for the city's bad record - but
insisted that steps were being taken to improve the situation.
The figures relate to life expectancy at birth in 1999-2001.
The survey said that men could expect to live for an average of 68.7
years in Glasgow.
The life expectancy for women in the city was estimated at 76.2 years.
Scottish council areas accounted for seven of the 10 areas with the
lowest life expectancy for men, and six out of 10 for women.
West Dunbartonshire and Inverclyde also featured in the worst five
areas for both men and women.
North Dorset was the area with the highest male life expectancy, with
an average age of 79.3.
Christchurch recorded a similar figure, with East Dorset in third
place.
West Somerset was top for women, with an average age of 83.4, followed
by Purbeck and Guildford.
[...I cut off the bit about the NHS, since I don't want this thread
hijacked by political talk. So here instead is a continuing theme on
life expectancy -- whilst Glaswegian males may live the shortest in
the UK, British males still have one of the most long-lived existences
in Europe. Anders should be happy as to who came number 1. :)]
Top five countries
1. Sweden
2. Switzerland
3. Italy
4. Norway
5. UK
"The British male now lives longer than men in most other western
European countries, according to a report.
Figures from the European Men's Health Forum show the average life
expectancy of British men has jumped over the past 20 years.
In 1980, average male life expectancy was just 70 years of age. Today,
it is 76 years.
The increase has seen Britain fly up the European league table for
male life expectancy from 10th in 1980 to 5th now.
Health improvements
The improvement is being linked to a reduction in the number of men
developing heart disease and lung cancer, as more men give up smoking.
However, the report shows that British men still lag behind many in
Europe when it comes to a long life.
Men in Sweden, Switzerland, Italy and Norway generally live longer.
Swedish men enjoy Europe's highest life expectancy rate of 77.5 years.
Men in Ireland have the shortest lives at just 73 years on average.
The report examined the state of men's health in 17 western European
countries.
It found that while men in all of these countries are living longer
they are still lagging far behind women.
Men are still struggling to achieve life expectancy rates expected of
women more than 20 years ago.
The researchers said: "Men's life expectancy will continue to increase
at a faster rate than women."
But they added: "Life expectancy for men in 20 years time will still
be less than that of women currently and is only just reaching the
figures for women in the 1980s." [...]
Courtesy: BBC
Sven Mischkies
> Actually, I had been meaning to post this earlier, but I didn't want
> to pile on the anti-Glaswegian critques, what with Sven not exactly
> lovin' it in around there. Since I am part Scots, I have a deep and
> abiding fondness for that land, but I admit, sometimes it's a bit dire
> regarding physique and health.
Well, the country is surely nice. People are nice, too, of course. If
only they would do their jobs properly! ;)
> (Sven's remark about anorexic showers made me kinda laugh, since I
> remember far too many overweight Scots whenever I visited)
Yeah, I noticed that, too. But that is no surprise when you take a
look at the supermarkets.
> LOWEST MALE LIFE EXPECTANCY
> Glasgow - 68.7
> Manchester - 69.8
> Inverclyde - 70.3
So my place is third best. *g*
> LOWEST FEMALE LIFE EXPECTANCY
> Glasgow - 76.2
> Manchester - 76.5
> East Ayrshire - 76.7
> West Dunbartonshire - 77.2
> Inverclyde - 77.2
And 5th. Remarkable that there are so many Scottish places in the top
10...
> [...I cut off the bit about the NHS, since I don't want this thread
> hijacked by political talk.
*g* But there are so many funny stories about the health system
here...
Ciao,
SM
Alessandro Riolo
in <news:16ffsv0igkj5r20hb...@4ax.com> wrote:
> Men in Sweden, Switzerland, Italy and Norway generally live longer.
Not to tell the women. I don't remember if I already announced that
here, anyway my grandmother Angelina got his 100th candle just the
10th November.
Her sister died at 98, their mother at 94 and their grandmother at 97.
And it is not even the most impressive record I know directly, in the
family of former collegue of me in a closer town most of the women in
the last 3 generations were able to pass 100 (by the way that family
record is impressive also regarding the men, they have to own a really
fine blood and knowing how to care that really good).
--
ale
http://www.sen.it
Victoria Barrett
Mischkies) wrote:
>Well, the country is surely nice. People are nice, too, of course. If
>only they would do their jobs properly! ;)
I don't know why people think the British are efficient. We're
slip-shod and amateurish, Sven...in fact, there's a certain twisted
pride in not looking too successful or brainy. My father is exactly
this way -- he hates German precision as somewhat akin to showing off.
>Yeah, I noticed that, too. But that is no surprise when you take a
>look at the supermarkets.
Oh yes? The fried Mars Bars didn't tip you off? :)
>And 5th. Remarkable that there are so many Scottish places in the top
>10...
People drink a lot more in Britain than on the continent. But in
certain Scottish towns, where there is literally nothing to do (port
towns with RN connexions esp.) it's ALL there is to do. And they smoke
a lot more than others too.
Poor eating habits, poor recreational habits, sometimes even poor
hygiene adds up.
Instead of the younger generation being better off, my cousin (who is
a GP in Glasgow) says they're if anything less healthy than the older
generation...
>*g* But there are so many funny stories about the health system
>here...
Well, you know me, Sven. I hate all roads which lead to politics. *g*
Victoria Barrett
Riolo) wrote:
>Victoria Barrett
>in <news:16ffsv0igkj5r20hb...@4ax.com> wrote:
>> Men in Sweden, Switzerland, Italy and Norway generally live longer.
>
>Not to tell the women. I don't remember if I already announced that
>here, anyway my grandmother Angelina got his 100th candle just the
>10th November.
Awww, no you hadn't! Congratulations nonna Angelina! :)
>Her sister died at 98, their mother at 94 and their grandmother at 97.
>And it is not even the most impressive record I know directly, in the
>family of former collegue of me in a closer town most of the women in
>the last 3 generations were able to pass 100 (by the way that family
>record is impressive also regarding the men, they have to own a really
>fine blood and knowing how to care that really good).
Fantastic. You come from a deliciously long-lived family. If you can
combine that with strong faculties until the end, that's a wonderful
life blessing.
All my 4 grandparents died, the last in 1995...they were not young,
but by no means were they old either. However, my maternal
great-grandmother (Austrian) died the day before WC 1994 started, and
she was 94 exactly, lucid as all get out until her dying breath. I
hope to emulate her one day. :)
sidd
Seattle - yes, very bad. 7 years of my life spent there,
7 wasted years. The funny thing about Seattle is it can
get very comfortable living there in a physical sort of
way. But mentally, the place is terrifying. Portland is
far better.
Los Angeles - dont agree. Beautiful weather, great beaches,
comparatively cheap ( as against San Fran ). I went there
prepared to dislike it, but it was a really nice surprise.
Would like to have lived there but a nasty unavoidable
old aunt does too.
Baltimore - one of the better places on the Atlantic
seaboard. Better than DC, Philly, Richmond, and any
place south of there till Florida. If it only had a
few more tech jobs.
I would like to add to the list ..
1. San Jose. Many people consider it a city, which I
dont, but I will accept their claim. If it is a city,
it sucks. And the places around it are even worse,
especially Palo Alto, Sunnyvale, and everything up
from Fremont and Milpitas. Too bad that it had to
be the silicon valley.
2. San Fran. If Seattle is bad, SF is worse. And more,
much more, expensive. But SF is a truly cosmopolitan
city, which cannot be said of Seattle, which is neither
cosmopolitan nor a city.
3. Las Vegas. Unless smoky odd smelling dark casinos
are your thing, avoid this place. Besides, it is loud,
pretentious, hot and humid. The epitome of crass culture.
Come to think of it, besides NY, Chicago and LA, there
are not many really nice cities in the USA. Dont know
much of the south or center.
PS. I didnt like Buffalo, either.
Alessandro Riolo
Victoria Barrett, from <vbar...@the-beach.net>,
in <news:kgihsvgs5dm69eekk...@4ax.com> wrote:
> my maternal great-grandmother (Austrian) died the day before
> WC 1994 started, and she was 94 exactly, lucid as all get out ..
Did you ever asked her how was living under Franz Joseph?
--
Ale
http://www.sen.it
rara temporum felicitate, ubi sentire
quae velis et quae sentis dicere licet
Jason Maxwell
news:880be3ca.03112...@posting.google.com...
> Dont know much about some of the cities on the list, but ..
>
> Seattle - yes, very bad. 7 years of my life spent there,
> 7 wasted years. The funny thing about Seattle is it can
> get very comfortable living there in a physical sort of
> way. But mentally, the place is terrifying. Portland is
> far better.
>
exactly what it was you didn't like.
Jason
Victoria Barrett
<alessand...@sen.it> wrote:
>Victoria Barrett, from <vbar...@the-beach.net>,
>in <news:kgihsvgs5dm69eekk...@4ax.com> wrote:
>
>> my maternal great-grandmother (Austrian) died the day before
>> WC 1994 started, and she was 94 exactly, lucid as all get out ..
>
>Did you ever asked her how was living under Franz Joseph?
Heh. :)
Yes, I did ask a lot about her early life. About Vienna in it's second
Golden Period; about the fiakers, and the waltzes during Fasching,
magical stuff...you know back then, girls of her background were
educated privately at home with tutors, but she actually went to a
private nun's school in the Tyrol mountains when she turned 13 or so.
And the Kaiser apparently loved to hunt there, sometimes passing by
the foot of their school in his old lederhosen, and raising his hat in
salute to the little girls fluttering their handkerchiefs in greeting
to him.
A sweet vignette of a different time, you must agree Ale. :)
The thing I most remember her saying is that her brother and sister
were born in France and Spain respectively, because back then, there
were no such things as passports. And visas? Pffff. Except for
countries like Russia, which had strict police control of the
whereabouts of their citizens (something people thought was a Soviet
invention, but no), most continental Europeans didn't care about place
of birth to determine your nationality and moved around at will. Those
strictures came into place after WWI...
What did your nonna/o tell YOU about Ethiopia and Italy back then? :)
Victoria Barrett
<jaso...@cox.net> wrote:
>"sidd" <sid...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>>
>> Seattle - yes, very bad. 7 years of my life spent there,
>> 7 wasted years. The funny thing about Seattle is it can
>> get very comfortable living there in a physical sort of
>> way. But mentally, the place is terrifying. Portland is
>> far better.
>>
>Please expand on this because I couldn't disagree more, but I'm not sure
>exactly what it was you didn't like.
You know what though? Seattle seems to be one of those cities that
arouses either love or dislike, no in-between. I wonder why?
Like other cities, for example, Atlanta in the US or Newcastle in the
UK, I could take or leave with equal pleasure, but not Seattle
apparently.
I'm really fascinated by dichotomies like this, so I will definitely
pencil in Seattle as a future Vicky destination.
Victoria "My Christmas skiing holiday in Aspen is off, since we can't
afford it now :(" Barrett
Werner Pichler
"Victoria Barrett" <vbar...@the-beach.net> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:mdaisvongbdga5oeh...@4ax.com...
> On Sat, 29 Nov 2003 23:58:02 +0100, "Alessandro Riolo"
> <alessand...@sen.it> wrote:
> >Victoria Barrett, from <vbar...@the-beach.net>,
> >in <news:kgihsvgs5dm69eekk...@4ax.com> wrote:
> >
> >> my maternal great-grandmother (Austrian) died the day before
> >> WC 1994 started, and she was 94 exactly, lucid as all get out ..
> >
> >Did you ever asked her how was living under Franz Joseph?
>
> Heh. :)
>
All nostalgy aside, that must be the generation that suffered most
in its lifetime. Two world wars, the big economic crisis, a civil war
in Austria, austrofascism that was replaced by nazism, air raids,
destroyed cities...
I really don't envy this generation for what they had to endure.
Ciao,
Werner
Victoria Barrett
<wpic...@sbox.tu-graz.ac.at> wrote:
>"Victoria Barrett" <vbar...@the-beach.net> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
>> <alessand...@sen.it> wrote:
>> >Victoria Barrett, from <vbar...@the-beach.net>,
>> >in <news:kgihsvgs5dm69eekk...@4ax.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >> my maternal great-grandmother (Austrian) died the day before
>> >> WC 1994 started, and she was 94 exactly, lucid as all get out ..
>> >
>> >Did you ever asked her how was living under Franz Joseph?
>>
>> Heh. :)
>>
>> A sweet vignette of a different time, you must agree Ale. :)
>
>
>All nostalgy aside,
In fact by all accounts, Austria was the real sick-man of Europe.
There was a feeling of decay about the time that is palpable in all
accounts I've heard of it.
> that must be the generation that suffered most
>in its lifetime. Two world wars, the big economic crisis, a civil war
>in Austria, austrofascism that was replaced by nazism, air raids,
>destroyed cities...
Hmm. I think her parent's generation suffered more, Werner.
As real Victorians (my Urgrossmutter was nominally a Victorian, she
was really an Edwardian), they "suffered" having to see their world of
privilege turn upside-down, with some idiot Austrian ne'er-do-well
leading their country (and no I don't mean Dollfuss ;).
My great-great-grandmother til her dying day in 1950-something, never
used the telephone and never would condescend to watch television, as
both representative of incredibly vulgar pieces of modern technology
(read, for the masses). What a waste of energy.
>I really don't envy this generation for what they had to endure.
You're right, but I'll tell you something about that school she
attended. She once told me she was forever grateful to them for
teaching her to cook. At the time, she thought it was a total waste of
time, since why would she ever need to learn to do something others
were hired to do for her? Well it sure served her well when people in
Vienna were selling their mattresses for a few bits of rotten potato
after both Wars. She kept her little family alive by doing it herself.
Frankie Boy
smoking habit), my paternal grandmother lived to be 90 (and was healthy as a
horse till 88); and on my mom's side she had an aunt that lived to be 99,
also smoking three packs a day...
My dad's sister is 75 going on 40...her idea of retirement is taking African
safaris and raising megabucks for the New York Philharmonic...I think she
may just have another 20 years in her also...
Frank
"Victoria Barrett" <vbar...@the-beach.net> wrote in message
news:kgihsvgs5dm69eekk...@4ax.com...