Worthless Knowledge About Sweden
Mango
anders thelemyr <anderst@_NO_SPAM_NO_UCE_algonet.se> wrote in message
news:s7e8lt0h1aho2c0lt...@4ax.com...
> Sweden hasn't lost in a WCQ or ECQ game since Sep 6 1997. Since, we have
> played 17 games and won 14 and drawn 3. The goal diff is 25-2. Yes. We
have
> shut out the opponent 15 times out of 17 possible since Sep 6 1997.
>
> Now, we only have to do it in a Final Tournament, too...
>
Australia hasn't lost a WCQ since November 17 1993. Since then we've had 12
wins and 2 draws. Now we only have to make to a Final Tournament :-(
Cheers
Mango
(Admittedly our opposition has been somewhat weaker than Sweden's)
>
> --
> http://www.skrivihop.nu/
> http://skrivihop.nu/aktioner/lyckade/010421nwt.jpg
Jfosanjuan
>played 17 games and won 14 and drawn 3. The goal diff is 25-2. Yes. We have
>shut out the opponent 15 times out of 17 possible since Sep 6 1997.
Just like Mexico... Sorry
I couldn't resist!
Jose
S.T. Pickrell
>
> Sweden hasn't lost in a WCQ or ECQ game since Sep 6 1997. Since, we
> have played 17 games and won 14 and drawn 3. The goal diff is 25-2.
> Yes. We have shut out the opponent 15 times out of 17 possible since
> Sep 6 1997.
>
but can they beat poland?
shawn
Doug Karpa-Wilson
anders thelemyr wrote:
Too bad you don't get to play Estonia and Luxembourg in the finals...
Doug
--
Thomas wrote:
Didn't you say a few months ago that the USA will win [the World Cup] before
England does again?
Can we please win one match outside of the USA before we make these comments?
Sheridan Elliot
news:s7e8lt0h1aho2c0lt...@4ax.com...
>we have played 17 games and won 14 and drawn 3. The goal diff is 25-2.
>Yes. We have shut out the opponent 15 times out of 17 possible since Sep 6
>1997.
>
> Now, we only have to do it in a Final Tournament, too...
By far my favourite piece of Worthless Knowledege About Sweden
is that those who drew up the Peace (Treaty) of Westphalia, negotiated
in 1648 to end the Thirty Years War, neglected to include a clause
ending the state of war between Sweden and San Marino. In fact,
the two countries were formally at war until 1996, when their respective
governments came to their senses and brought the bloody conflict to
an end :-). I wonder if this could have jeopardised Sweden's neutrality
if people had discovered it sooner?
Doug Karpa-Wilson
Sheridan Elliot wrote:
Oh, that *is* priceless!
Paul C
Elliot) wrote:
In the same way, the town of Berwick-on-Tweed in NE England was at war
with Russia until recently.
In the course of history Berwick has changed hands 13 times between
England and Scotland. It was traditional, prior to the union of
England and Scotland, for English war declarations etc to mention
Berwick separately. When Britain went to war with Russia in the
Crimean War (1854) Queen Victoria's War Declaration used this, by
then, anachronistic format and mentioned Berwick separately -
"Britain, Ireland, Her Majesty's good town of Berwick-on-Tweed and the
Dominions".
However, the peace treaty omitted Berwick.
In 1966 a peace treaty was signed between Berwick and Russia. After
the treaty had been signed Berwick's mayor told the Russia diplomat
"Please tell the Russian people that they can now sleep peacefully in
their beds."
--
Paul
www.footballpyramid.co.uk
S.T. Pickrell
>
> "S.T. Pickrell" <spic...@zzapp.org> said:
> >but can they beat poland?
>
> Piece Of Cake
>
> ECQ
> 1999-03-31 Poland - Sweden 0-1
> 1999-09-10 Sweden - Poland 2-0
ah yes.
the rss dream world cup group: australia, usa, poland, sweden
updates always welcome ;)
S.T. Pickrell
> By far my favourite piece of Worthless Knowledege About Sweden
> is that those who drew up the Peace (Treaty) of Westphalia, negotiated
> in 1648 to end the Thirty Years War, neglected to include a clause
> ending the state of war between Sweden and San Marino. In fact,
> the two countries were formally at war until 1996, when their
> respective governments came to their senses and brought the bloody
> conflict to an end :-). I wonder if this could have jeopardised
> Sweden's neutrality if people had discovered it sooner?
abraham lincoln was made an honorary citizen of san marino in 1860.
shawn
Thomas
The war ended? Who won?
Brandon Thornburg
"Thomas" <thom...@mailnospam.com> wrote in message
news:9j244n$9bv$1...@slb4.atl.mindspring.net...
> The war ended? Who won?
Sweden 0-0 San Marino a[a LOT of]et
Sweden wins 5-4 on penalties when it is realized that no one has ANY idea
where San Marino actually is except the Sammarinese and, probably, the
entire readership of this newsgroup.
Sheridan Elliot
news:9j26a6$9i$1...@fremont.ohsu.edu...
> Sweden 0-0 San Marino a[a LOT of]et
>
> Sweden wins 5-4 on penalties when it is realized that no one has ANY idea
> where San Marino actually is except the Sammarinese and, probably, the
> entire readership of this newsgroup.
I will not stand idly by and watch San Marino being rubbished. I'm
sorry, but I just won't do it. San Marino is one of the most civilised
countries on the planet. It is, as you may know, the oldest republic
in the world. On the football front, San Marino's national team holds
the record for the fastest goal in World Cup history (I shall exercise
enormous restraint and refrain from mentioning the opposition on that
occasion.) Napoleon was so impressed by the peaceable nature of
the Sammarinese that he offered them extra territory in Italy - they
characteristically and nobly declined. And have you ever seen
San Marino's flag? It's the *perfect* combination of sky-blue and
white, not in a wishy-washy, Coventry City kind of way, but in a
manner that positively screams, or rather whispers sotto voce, the
word "tranquillity." With or without the heraldic device (I prefer it
with), it's the most beautiful flag in the world, with the possible
exception of the Dominican Republic's white-cross and
red-and-blue-quarters effort. Their national anthem, too, is one of
my favourites - rousing without being pompous or jingoistic.
All this and an active eurocommunist party, too! What more could
you want in a country?
PS: My interest in this remarkable little state was initially sparked by
seeing them compete in the 1994 World Cup qualifiers - just goes to
show how *full* European participation in the World Cup is a cultural
and moral, as well as a sporting, necessity.
Sven Mischkies
> That's why Sweden continued to send troups to SM for such a long time...
Really? Funny that they didn't find me until now...
Ciao,
SM, hiding away
--
Ash Nazg durbatulūk,
Ash Nazg gimbatul,
Ash Nazg thrakatulūk
agh burzum-ishi krimpatul.
EPK
news:5adc606a.01071...@posting.google.com...
I notice, though, that you don't claim to know where the place is... ;-)
Brandon Thornburg
"Sheridan Elliot" <sherida...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:5adc606a.01071...@posting.google.com...
> news:9j26a6$9i$1...@fremont.ohsu.edu...
>no one has ANY idea
> > where San Marino actually is [except] probably, the
> > entire readership of this newsgroup.
>
> I will not stand idly by and watch San Marino being rubbished. I'm
> sorry, but I just won't do it.
There's one...
>San Marino is one of the most civilised
> countries on the planet. It is, as you may know, the oldest republic
> in the world.
Wonderful!
>On the football front, San Marino's national team holds
> the record for the fastest goal in World Cup history (I shall exercise
> enormous restraint and refrain from mentioning the opposition on that
> occasion.) Napoleon was so impressed by the peaceable nature of
> the Sammarinese that he offered them extra territory in Italy - they
> characteristically and nobly declined.
Marvelous!
>And have you ever seen
> San Marino's flag? It's the *perfect* combination of sky-blue and
> white, not in a wishy-washy, Coventry City kind of way, but in a
> manner that positively screams, or rather whispers sotto voce, the
> word "tranquillity." With or without the heraldic device (I prefer it
> with), it's the most beautiful flag in the world, with the possible
> exception of the Dominican Republic's white-cross and
> red-and-blue-quarters effort. Their national anthem, too, is one of
> my favourites - rousing without being pompous or jingoistic.
> All this and an active eurocommunist party, too! What more could
> you want in a country?
Nothing whatsoever!
> PS: My interest in this remarkable little state was initially sparked by
> seeing them compete in the 1994 World Cup qualifiers - just goes to
> show how *full* European participation in the World Cup is a cultural
> and moral, as well as a sporting, necessity.
See, I'm not slagging the Sammarinese, but I stand by my statement that it
would be very difficult for Sweden (or anyone) to find it, hence the Thirty
Years War taking something like 360 years. In fact, if you asked 100 people
from more than 500 miles away from San Marino, I'm betting 95 of them
couldn't tell you where it was. In fact, if you asked 100 people from
outside of Europe, I bet at least 60 of them would say it was in Central or
South America. In fact, if you asked 100 people from North America, I bet
100 of them would say it was the capital city of their state or province,
but that's North America for you.
Sheridan Elliot
news:9j45bj$1e3$1...@mozo.cc.purdue.edu...
<In response to my eulogy on The Most Serene Republic of San Marino>
> I notice, though, that you don't claim to know where the place is... ;-)
Sure I do. It's on top of a mountain somewhere in northern Italy. :-)
My dear fellow, in this part of the world we do not concern
ourselves with mere trifles such as the physical location of
a country. San Marino is what it is *in spite* of its geographical
deficiencies. That, in microcosm, is why Europe is special. That
a continent with a population of less than 720 million people should
have produced around 70% of the world's cultural, political and
scientific progress is truly remarkable (although possibly attributable
to the weather keeping our ancestors indoors for long periods. )
I suppose a similar argument could be made for the USA as
compared to China and India. However, it will have to wait for a
more willing advocate than I. :-)
Sheridan Elliot
<On San Marino>
> In fact, if you asked 100 people from North America, I bet
> 100 of them would say it was the capital city of their state or province,
> but that's North America for you.
*I* bet at least 50 of them would say "he used to play for the Miami
Dolphins."
Isn't there a San Marino in California, btw?
Thomas
>news:9j45bj$1e3$1...@mozo.cc.purdue.edu...
>
><In response to my eulogy on The Most Serene Republic of San Marino>
>
>> I notice, though, that you don't claim to know where the place is... ;-)
>
>Sure I do. It's on top of a mountain somewhere in northern Italy. :-)
>My dear fellow, in this part of the world we do not concern
>ourselves with mere trifles such as the physical location of
>a country. San Marino is what it is *in spite* of its geographical
>deficiencies. That, in microcosm, is why Europe is special. That
>a continent with a population of less than 720 million people should
>have produced around 70% of the world's cultural, political and
>scientific progress is truly remarkable
What is quite remarkable is how you could make that claim, especially as
regards to "cultural." For example, it has produced no major religions. Even
the USA has accomplished that much in such a brief period of time.
Thomas
Yep, I lived there for a few years as a kid.
Doug Karpa-Wilson
Sheridan Elliot wrote:
> "EPK" <kv...@purdue.edu> wrote in message
> news:9j45bj$1e3$1...@mozo.cc.purdue.edu...
>
> <In response to my eulogy on The Most Serene Republic of San Marino>
>
> > I notice, though, that you don't claim to know where the place is... ;-)
>
> That, in microcosm, is why Europe is special. That
> a continent with a population of less than 720 million people should
> have produced around 70% of the world's cultural, political and
> scientific progress is truly remarkable.
Well, scientific at least, although much of that is debateable as well, since
much of the basis of European science is Arab in origin, but in the spirit of
bonhomie we won't quibble. As far as culture is concerned, well, that's much
more dubious. Europe though prettymuch has a lock on European culture, I'll
grant you that.
Brandon Thornburg
"Sheridan Elliot" <sherida...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:5adc606a.01071...@posting.google.com...
> a continent with a population of less than 720 million people should
> have produced around 70% of the world's cultural, political and
> scientific progress is truly remarkable
No one, I think, can accuse me of being anything but complimentary to
Europe. In many ways I'd rather be in Europe than in North America. But I
can't believe how narrow-minded this statement is. Scientific progress has
been primarily European _until_the_1800s_, granted-but only if you're
discussing traditional science and not things like acupuncture etc. Since
the 1800s? Overtaken by the US Political? Eh. I can give you 70% on that.
But cultural? 70%? That's narrow if not racist, my friend.
Thomas
>
>
>Sheridan Elliot wrote:
>
>> "EPK" <kv...@purdue.edu> wrote in message
>> news:9j45bj$1e3$1...@mozo.cc.purdue.edu...
>>
>> <In response to my eulogy on The Most Serene Republic of San Marino>
>>
>> > I notice, though, that you don't claim to know where the place is... ;-)
>>
>> That, in microcosm, is why Europe is special. That
>> a continent with a population of less than 720 million people should
>> have produced around 70% of the world's cultural, political and
>> scientific progress is truly remarkable.
>
>Well, scientific at least, although much of that is debateable as well, since
>much of the basis of European science is Arab in origin, but in the spirit of
Based on Greek science.
Brandon Thornburg
> Based on Greek science.
>
> >bonhomie we won't quibble. As far as culture is concerned, well, that's
much
> >more dubious. Europe though prettymuch has a lock on European culture,
I'll
> >grant you that.
> >
> >Doug
> >
You misspelled "we won't quibble".
David Tiemroth
wrote:
>In article <5adc606a.01071...@posting.google.com>, sherida...@hotmail.com (Sheridan Elliot) wrote:
>>"EPK" <kv...@purdue.edu> wrote in message
>>news:9j45bj$1e3$1...@mozo.cc.purdue.edu...
>>
>><In response to my eulogy on The Most Serene Republic of San Marino>
>>
>>> I notice, though, that you don't claim to know where the place is... ;-)
>>
>>Sure I do. It's on top of a mountain somewhere in northern Italy. :-)
>>My dear fellow, in this part of the world we do not concern
>>ourselves with mere trifles such as the physical location of
>>a country. San Marino is what it is *in spite* of its geographical
>>deficiencies. That, in microcosm, is why Europe is special. That
>>a continent with a population of less than 720 million people should
>>have produced around 70% of the world's cultural, political and
>>scientific progress is truly remarkable
>
>What is quite remarkable is how you could make that claim, especially as
>regards to "cultural." For example, it has produced no major religions. Even
>the USA has accomplished that much in such a brief period of time.
Major? What, scientology?
David.
Is this a new definition of "major"?
------------------------------------------------------------------
Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as
you please. -- Mark Twain
------------------------------------------------------------------
Brandon Thornburg
"David Tiemroth" <le...@vip.cybercity.dk> wrote in message
news:3b55da72...@news.cybercity.dk...
> Major? What, scientology?
Mormonism and Ba'hai (I could stand corrected on the Ba'hai point of
origination).
Sven Mischkies
If Mormonism is a religion of its own, than Protestantism, Russian and
Greek Orthodoy are, too?
Ciao,
SM
EPK
news:5adc606a.01071...@posting.google.com...
> news:9j477f$h3k$1...@fremont.ohsu.edu...
>
> <On San Marino>
>
> > In fact, if you asked 100 people from North America, I bet
> > 100 of them would say it was the capital city of their state or
province,
> > but that's North America for you.
>
> *I* bet at least 50 of them would say "he used to play for the Miami
> Dolphins."
>
Ouch and double-ouch. (It only really hurts because it's true.)
Brandon Thornburg
"Sven Mischkies" <sven_mi...@magicvillage.de> wrote in message
news:1ewrdwd.1godbr7qs84lrN%sven_mi...@magicvillage.de...
> Brandon Thornburg <centre...@NOSPAMyahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > "David Tiemroth" <le...@vip.cybercity.dk> wrote in message
> > news:3b55da72...@news.cybercity.dk...
> > > Major? What, scientology?
> >
> > Mormonism and Ba'hai (I could stand corrected on the Ba'hai point of
> > origination).
>
>
> If Mormonism is a religion of its own, than Protestantism, Russian and
> Greek Orthodoy are, too?
a) probably. Again, I'm not the one that claimed Europe had developed no
religions of their own.
but
b) Mormonism is NOT just another denomination of Christianity. They worship
Christ, yes, but there the similarities begin to end.
David Tiemroth
So this *is* a new definition of the word "major", then?
David.
Ba'hai?
Thomas
>Brandon Thornburg <centre...@NOSPAMyahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> "David Tiemroth" <le...@vip.cybercity.dk> wrote in message
>> news:3b55da72...@news.cybercity.dk...
>> > Major? What, scientology?
>>
>> Mormonism and Ba'hai (I could stand corrected on the Ba'hai point of
>> origination).
>
>
>If Mormonism is a religion of its own, than Protestantism, Russian and
>Greek Orthodoy are, too?
>
Mormon has its own scriptures (The Book of Mormon) as well as the traditional
Bible. Like all religious discussions, this could get heated so we should be
careful here. But it is fair to say that Mormonism is a very distinct
religion. BTW, over 1/2 of Mormons are not Americans.
Brandon Thornburg
> On Wed, 18 Jul 2001 11:45:03 -0700, "Brandon Thornburg"
> <centre...@NOSPAMyahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >
> >"David Tiemroth" <le...@vip.cybercity.dk> wrote in message
> >news:3b55da72...@news.cybercity.dk...
> >> Major? What, scientology?
> >
> >Mormonism and Ba'hai (I could stand corrected on the Ba'hai point of
> >origination).
>
> So this *is* a new definition of the word "major", then?
>
Bahai: 7,666,000 + 144,000 'under the provisions of the covenant' whatever
that means. Some say way more, including 2 million in Africa and 3 million
in Asia.
Mormon: around 8 million, 4 million in the US and 4 million outside.
Stats from adherents.com
I have no vested interest in this debate even. I just think you should >Get
your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as
> you please. -- Mark Twain
Especially when talking about religion.
ne...@veko.mediaspamlessone.net
>>
>>"David Tiemroth" <le...@vip.cybercity.dk> wrote in message
>>news:3b55da72...@news.cybercity.dk...
>>> Major? What, scientology?
>>
>>Mormonism and Ba'hai (I could stand corrected on the Ba'hai point of
>>origination).
> So this *is* a new definition of the word "major", then?
Not to mention that I thought the Mormons left Europe to found there own
Polygamists wonderland (not that I am not totally wrong about that).
And another fine minor cum major religion we've dreamed up is Christian
Science. It's a pity we can't count David Koresh's church anymore.
> David.
> Ba'hai?
Bwahahaha'hai.
Actually I knew a coupla really nice folks who were ... Ba'hai-ists?
Sheridan Elliot
why do I never see his contributions - have I killfiled him by mistake?)
reacted in a most-unwarrantably hostile manner to my post about
San Marino, Europe and the attractions of those two places.
"Brandon Thornburg" <centre...@NOSPAMyahoo.com> wrote in message
news:9j4hb8$ju8$1...@fremont.ohsu.edu...
> No one, I think, can accuse me of being anything but complimentary to
> Europe. In many ways I'd rather be in Europe than in North America. But I
> can't believe how narrow-minded this statement is. Scientific progress has
> been primarily European _until_the_1800s_, granted-but only if you're
> discussing traditional science and not things like acupuncture etc. Since
> the 1800s? Overtaken by the US Political? Eh. I can give you 70% on that.
> But cultural? 70%? That's narrow if not racist, my friend.
Allow me to clarify.
Cultural:
By cultural, I mean artistic and sporting. I was
not referring to folk culture, which is basically the same all over
the world. Most major art-forms and sports have their
roots and/or refinement and best exponents in Europe.
Scientific:
Brandon Thornburg wrote:
> Scientific progress has
> been primarily European _until_the_1800s_, granted-but only if you're
> discussing traditional science and not things like acupuncture etc
Well, I'm not going to argue about science with either you or Doug,
so you can have this one!
Politics:
Political philosophies with roots in Europe:
Liberalism, Communism, Capitalism, Socialism, Democratic Socialism,
Christian Socialism, Fascism, etc etc (including parliamentary democracy
itself, for that matter) - basically the governing philosophies of every
country in the world, past or present.
Religion:
Thomas wrote
>For example, it has produced no major religions. Even
>the USA has accomplished that much in such a brief period of time.
Israel is a member of UEFA, you know, so we claim every major
monotheistic religion :-) But seriously, "it has produced no major
religions?" - what about Catholicism and Protestantism? Since
we were discussing San Marino, I'll mention another microstate
entirely surrounded by Italy - the Vatican City.
Humour:
For example, the ability to read a harmless piece of jocular semi-trolling
designed to fill a dull Wednesday afternoon without spewing vitriol left,
right and centre. I'm tired of being Mr. Nice Guy and having it
thrown in my face :-) I probably should have anticipated that people
would not take that post in the spirit in which it was intended, but
an attack on San Marino is an attack on me. OTOH, slag off Ireland
all you want and I'll say nothing, except maybe to join in heaping
abuse on this nasty little country (well, it's not that bad - just bad
for Western Europe :-))
Thomas
>On Wed, 18 Jul 2001 11:45:03 -0700, "Brandon Thornburg"
><centre...@NOSPAMyahoo.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>"David Tiemroth" <le...@vip.cybercity.dk> wrote in message
>>news:3b55da72...@news.cybercity.dk...
>>> Major? What, scientology?
>>
>>Mormonism and Ba'hai (I could stand corrected on the Ba'hai point of
>>origination).
>
>So this *is* a new definition of the word "major", then?
>
Mormonism is well on its way to becoming a major religion. Already there are
nearly 10 million adherents, with a substantial number outside America.
ne...@veko.mediaspamlessone.net
> Mormon: around 8 million, 4 million in the US and 4 million outside.
> Stats from adherents.com
> I have no vested interest in this debate even. I just think you should >Get
> your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as
>> you please. -- Mark Twain
> Especially when talking about religion.
Considering that that site lists Christianity at 2-billion, Islam
1.3-billion, Hinduism at 900-million, and Buddhism 360-million, I'd call
8-million minor, or at least decidedly not major.
(Unless you consider Juche, Spiritism, Yoruba, and Sikhism to be major
religions.)
Brandon Thornburg
<ne...@veko.mediaSPAMLESSone.net> wrote in message
news:CCl57.11620$OY6.1...@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net...
Well it depends on your definition of major, let's not get into that here.
But 8 million people is nothing to sneeze at, and especially not something
to say "Bahai?" at.
Tom Jobes
>
> Thomas, Doug Karpa-Wilson et al (incidentally, who is this "al" and
> why do I never see his contributions - have I killfiled him by mistake?)
> reacted in a most-unwarrantably hostile manner to my post about
> San Marino, Europe and the attractions of those two places.
>
> "Brandon Thornburg" <centre...@NOSPAMyahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:9j4hb8$ju8$1...@fremont.ohsu.edu...
>
> > No one, I think, can accuse me of being anything but complimentary to
> > Europe. In many ways I'd rather be in Europe than in North America. But I
> > can't believe how narrow-minded this statement is. Scientific progress has
> > been primarily European _until_the_1800s_, granted-but only if you're
> > discussing traditional science and not things like acupuncture etc. Since
> > the 1800s? Overtaken by the US Political? Eh. I can give you 70% on that.
> > But cultural? 70%? That's narrow if not racist, my friend.
Not racist necessarily, just clueless, as he demonstrates
below.
> Allow me to clarify.
>
> Cultural:
> By cultural, I mean artistic and sporting. I was
> not referring to folk culture, which is basically the same all over
> the world. Most major art-forms and sports have their
> roots and/or refinement and best exponents in Europe.
"and/or refinement and best exponents"? What a convenient
way to make your opinion of the best into a principle.
Where to begin? Ever read the Bhagavad Gita? Ever seen
a Japanese painting? If these are "folk culture" to you,
then so are Rembrandt and Shakespeare, and there is no
"refined" culture.
> Scientific:
> Brandon Thornburg wrote:
> > Scientific progress has
> > been primarily European _until_the_1800s_, granted-but only if you're
> > discussing traditional science and not things like acupuncture etc
>
> Well, I'm not going to argue about science with either you or Doug,
> so you can have this one!
Whew!
> Politics:
> Political philosophies with roots in Europe:
> Liberalism, Communism, Capitalism, Socialism, Democratic Socialism,
> Christian Socialism, Fascism, etc etc (including parliamentary democracy
> itself, for that matter) - basically the governing philosophies of every
> country in the world, past or present.
No nations existed before circa 1800? None of these
philosophies did. (If you're picky, Liberalism can
be traced back a bit earlier...)
> Religion:
> Thomas wrote
> >For example, it has produced no major religions. Even
> >the USA has accomplished that much in such a brief period of time.
>
> Israel is a member of UEFA, you know, so we claim every major
> monotheistic religion :-)
:-) So many people here in the US seem to be unaware
that Israel is in Asia, as if "the Middle East" was a
continent. Glad that you *know* you're joking here!
> But seriously, "it has produced no major
> religions?" - what about Catholicism and Protestantism? Since
> we were discussing San Marino, I'll mention another microstate
> entirely surrounded by Italy - the Vatican City.
I wasn't aware that Catholicism and Protestantism were
separate religions. I think that many adherents of
both will be shocked to be informed that they're not
Christians.
Sorry to jump on you there, Sheridan, especially being
a newbie on this newgroup and all, but I just couldn't
let such a narrow vision of culture get by. Try reading
something besides Rudyard Kipling.
Tom
Brandon Thornburg
"anders thelemyr" <anderst@_NO_SPAM_NO_UCE_algonet.se> wrote in message
news:a2pbltotsbvg4o11p...@4ax.com...
? Eh. I can give you 70% on that.
> >But cultural? 70%? That's narrow if not racist, my friend.
>
> words)? Answer: To any place/object older than from 1776.
>
> (It is of course understandable. It's not your fault that USA isn't
older.)
Fine, but I wasn't talking about the US when questioning Europe's claim to
70% of cultural advancement; I was mainly thinking of Africa, Asia, and the
Middle East.
Thomas
>Thomas, Doug Karpa-Wilson et al (incidentally, who is this "al" and
>why do I never see his contributions - have I killfiled him by mistake?)
>reacted in a most-unwarrantably hostile manner to my post about
>San Marino, Europe and the attractions of those two places.
>
I wouldn't say "hostile."
>
>Cultural:
>By cultural, I mean artistic and sporting. I was
>not referring to folk culture, which is basically the same all over
>the world. Most major art-forms and sports have their
>roots and/or refinement and best exponents in Europe.
>
I'll let Asians argue this one.
>Scientific:
>Brandon Thornburg wrote:
>> Scientific progress has
>> been primarily European _until_the_1800s_, granted-but only if you're
>> discussing traditional science and not things like acupuncture etc
>
>Well, I'm not going to argue about science with either you or Doug,
>so you can have this one!
>
>Politics:
>Political philosophies with roots in Europe:
>Liberalism, Communism, Capitalism, Socialism, Democratic Socialism,
>Christian Socialism, Fascism, etc etc (including parliamentary democracy
>itself, for that matter) - basically the governing philosophies of every
>country in the world, past or present.
>
>Religion:
>Thomas wrote
>>For example, it has produced no major religions. Even
>>the USA has accomplished that much in such a brief period of time.
>
>Israel is a member of UEFA, you know, so we claim every major
>monotheistic religion :-) But seriously, "it has produced no major
>religions?" - what about Catholicism and Protestantism? Since
>we were discussing San Marino, I'll mention another microstate
>entirely surrounded by Italy - the Vatican City.
>
You're not going to tell me St. Peter was a Roman, are you?
The worlds major religions (those that have the most followers: Christianity,
Islam, Hinduism, and Buddhism) were invented by Indians, Jews, and Arabs.
Thomas
>"Brandon Thornburg" <centre...@NOSPAMyahoo.com> said:
>
>>No one, I think, can accuse me of being anything but complimentary to
>>Europe. In many ways I'd rather be in Europe than in North America. But I
>>can't believe how narrow-minded this statement is. Scientific progress has
>>been primarily European _until_the_1800s_, granted-but only if you're
>>discussing traditional science and not things like acupuncture etc. Since
>>the 1800s? Overtaken by the US Political? Eh. I can give you 70% on that.
>>But cultural? 70%? That's narrow if not racist, my friend.
>
>words)? Answer: To any place/object older than from 1776.
>
Thomas
>Brandon Thornburg <centre...@nospamyahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>> Mormon: around 8 million, 4 million in the US and 4 million outside.
>
>> Stats from adherents.com
>
>> I have no vested interest in this debate even. I just think you should >Get
>> your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as
>>> you please. -- Mark Twain
>
>> Especially when talking about religion.
>
>Considering that that site lists Christianity at 2-billion, Islam
>1.3-billion, Hinduism at 900-million, and Buddhism 360-million, I'd call
>8-million minor, or at least decidedly not major.
>
a better term.
Brandon Thornburg
"Tom Jobes" <jo...@aquaterra.com> wrote in message
news:3B55EAB2...@aquaterra.com...
>especially being
> a newbie on this newgroup and all,
Well, you've already learned the most important lesson of all: agree with me
:)
Just kidding, actually I'm a newbie here myself. I think it's great,
actually, beats working better than any other timewaster I've found :)
Philip Lennox Beineke
>that
>a continent with a population of less than 720 million people should
>have produced around 70% of the world's cultural, political and
>scientific progress is truly remarkable
Evokes the image of a schoolyard bully who wins the science
fair by running around destroying all the other entries.
P
--
Phil Beineke bei...@stanford.edu
What question is its own answer?
David Tiemroth
<centre...@NOSPAMyahoo.com> wrote:
>"David Tiemroth" <le...@vip.cybercity.dk> wrote in message
>news:3b55df82...@news.cybercity.dk...
>> On Wed, 18 Jul 2001 11:45:03 -0700, "Brandon Thornburg"
>> <centre...@NOSPAMyahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>> >
>> >"David Tiemroth" <le...@vip.cybercity.dk> wrote in message
>> >news:3b55da72...@news.cybercity.dk...
>> >> Major? What, scientology?
>> >
>> >Mormonism and Ba'hai (I could stand corrected on the Ba'hai point of
>> >origination).
>>
>> So this *is* a new definition of the word "major", then?
>>
>
>Bahai: 7,666,000 + 144,000 'under the provisions of the covenant' whatever
>that means. Some say way more, including 2 million in Africa and 3 million
>in Asia.
>
>Mormon: around 8 million, 4 million in the US and 4 million outside.
>
>Stats from adherents.com
>
>I have no vested interest in this debate even. I just think you should >Get
>your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as
>> you please. -- Mark Twain
>
>Especially when talking about religion.
So it is a new definition of the word "major".
David.
In this case, meaning "not major".
------------------------------------------------------------------
Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as
you please. -- Mark Twain
------------------------------------------------------------------
Brandon Thornburg
"anders thelemyr" <anderst@_NO_SPAM_NO_UCE_algonet.se> wrote in message
> thom...@mailnospam.com (Thomas) said:
>
> >Mormonism is well on its way to becoming a major religion. Already there
are
> >nearly 10 million adherents, with a substantial number outside America.
>
Not any more. They did away with polygamy as a practice when it looked like
it would block Utah's statehood.
Sheridan Elliot
news:3B55EAB2...@aquaterra.com...
> > Sheridan Elliot wrote:
> > Thomas, Doug Karpa-Wilson et al (incidentally, who is this "al" and
> > why do I never see his contributions - have I killfiled him by mistake?)
> > reacted in a most-unwarrantably hostile manner to my post about
> > San Marino, Europe and the attractions of those two places.
This, for those who evidently have trouble recognising them,
was a joke.
> Where to begin? Ever read the Bhagavad Gita? Ever seen
> a Japanese painting? If these are "folk culture" to you,
> then so are Rembrandt and Shakespeare, and there is no
> "refined" culture.
I see where you're coming from, but the word "major"
may have different connotations for you than for me. I mean
it the sense of "broadly practised or known throughout the entire
world." As for Japanese paintings, there are two rather lovely ones
gazing down from the wall as I write. One features a harbour-scene,
the other an eagle swooping over a mountain. But if you want
to draw up a list of world-famous paitings, what do you think the
Euro-American to Japanese ratio will be? Not that that's necessarily
right - just the way things are. Personally, I consider all forms of visual
art to be equally unsatisfactory means of artisitic communications, but
that's a story for another day.
> > Politics:
> > Political philosophies with roots in Europe:
> > Liberalism, Communism, Capitalism, Socialism, Democratic Socialism,
> > Christian Socialism, Fascism, etc etc (including parliamentary democracy
> > itself, for that matter) - basically the governing philosophies of every
> > country in the world, past or present.
>
> No nations existed before circa 1800? None of these
> philosophies did. (If you're picky, Liberalism can
> be traced back a bit earlier...)
I would draw your attention to the word "roots." And the relevance
of the dates at which these philosophies emerged has thus far eluded
me.
> > Israel is a member of UEFA, you know, so we claim every major
> > monotheistic religion :-)
>
> :-) So many people here in the US seem to be unaware
> that Israel is in Asia, as if "the Middle East" was a
> continent. Glad that you *know* you're joking here!
I'm so glad you know I know I'm joking. There may be hope...
>
> I wasn't aware that Catholicism and Protestantism were
> separate religions. I think that many adherents of
> both will be shocked to be informed that they're not
> Christians.
I come from Ireland. Try going up to Belfast and asking
someone their religion. Not the most tactful course to
pursue (or the safest), but it would probably prove
instructive in your case. If *anyone* describes themselves
as "Christian" and not "Protestant" or "Catholic" I will
buy myself a hat and publicly eat it. There's an old
Northern Irish joke about a newcomer in a neighbourhood
being asked if he's a Protestant or a Catholic - he replies
that he's a Jew. "Yes", his inquisitor responds, "but are you
a Protestant Jew or a Catholic Jew?" And if you want to
play the Umbrella Religion Game, I presume you are
aware that Christianity and Islam are both basically
outgrowths of Judaism.
<What happened to the explanation of (and half-apology for)
humorous intent of previous post that's supposed to be
here? Most curious.>
> Sorry to jump on you there, Sheridan, especially being
> a newbie on this newgroup and all, but I just couldn't
> let such a narrow vision of culture get by. Try reading
> something besides Rudyard Kipling.
Rudyard Kipling was a man with nasty, jingoistic and
narrow-mined opinions - but he did occasionally
demonstrate a sense of humour. And I'm Irish, actually,
so good old RK isn't exactly at the top of my reading
list.
David Tiemroth
wrote:
Once it gets around 5 times as big, it might very well almost be close
to being a major religion.
David.
Brandon Thornburg
"anders thelemyr" <anderst@_NO_SPAM_NO_UCE_algonet.se> wrote in message
> "Brandon Thornburg" <centre...@NOSPAMyahoo.com> said:
>
> >Not any more. They did away with polygamy as a practice when it looked
like
> >it would block Utah's statehood.
>
> the door every now and then... :)
>
> You say in practice meaning they don't do it at all or just that they
don't
> do it in open?
I read somewhere (you know, the fine publication published by the "They" in
"They say...") that there are something like 2000 hard-line polygamist
Mormons left, and hidden. The rest of the church basically did a reversal
and actually will excommunicate for it now.
Philip Lennox Beineke
>I come from Ireland. Try going up to Belfast and asking
>someone their religion.
Since we're light years off topic anyway, here's
another tangential question: would it be necessary for
one person from Belfast to inquire about another's religion?
Presumably, if you know a person's neighborhood or school,
you know his/her religion. That's probably true for some
surnames as well (not many Protestant O'Kelly's, I'd reckon).
But are there other tell-tale signs? Do Protestants and
Catholics dress or talk differently?
Sven Mischkies
> Returning to the subject: Do you know the name of "Sweden's" 4th largest
> city?
What? There are more than 3 cities in Sweden? Hmm... Stockholm,
Göteborg, Malmö - Norrköping? :)
Ciao,
SM
--
Ash Nazg durbatulûk,
Ash Nazg gimbatul,
Ash Nazg thrakatulûk
agh burzum-ishi krimpatul.
Sven Mischkies
> >What? There are more than 3 cities in Sweden? Hmm... Stockholm,
> >Göteborg, Malmö - Norrköping? :)
>
> Nope...
Uppsala... *g* But was i right with the first 3?
Brandon Thornburg
"anders thelemyr" <anderst@_NO_SPAM_NO_UCE_algonet.se> wrote in message
> sven_mi...@magicvillage.de (Sven Mischkies) said:
>
> >anders thelemyr <anderst@_NO_SPAM_NO_UCE_algonet.se> wrote:
>
> >> Returning to the subject: Do you know the name of "Sweden's" 4th
largest
> >> city?
>
> >What? There are more than 3 cities in Sweden? Hmm... Stockholm,
> >Göteborg, Malmö - Norrköping? :)
>
Uppsala, unless this is a trick question. (I only wonder that because of the
quotes around Sweden).
Sven Mischkies
> >Uppsala... *g*
>
> Nope... *bigger g*
*g* If someone wants to say 'Oops' in German, but with more creativity,
he says 'Uppsala'. :))
Ciao,
SM
--
Ash Nazg durbatulūk,
Ash Nazg gimbatul,
Ash Nazg thrakatulūk
agh burzum-ishi krimpatul.
Sheridan Elliot
> Sheridan Elliot <sherida...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Since we're light years off topic anyway, here's
> another tangential question: would it be necessary for
> one person from Belfast to inquire about another's religion?
No, although I actually recommended that course
of action to a chap who was (presumably) American
> Presumably, if you know a person's neighbourhood or school,
> you know his/her religion. That's probably true for some
> surnames as well (not many Protestant O'Kelly's, I'd reckon).
> But are there other tell-tale signs? Do Protestants and
> Catholics dress or talk differently?
There are very, very many means by which people in Northern
Ireland determine one another's religion/ethnicity. I'm not sure
about dressing differently (although, generally, an orange
sash and bowler hat is a dead giveaway :-)), but names and
areas of residence are often a very reliable method
"O's" normally signify that the bearer of that name is a Catholic,
English or Scottish surnames will usually belong
to a member of the Protestant/Unionist community.
There are, of course, exceptions - Gerry Adams, for instance,
does not possess a conspicuously Catholic surname. If I were
to use this pseudonym (Sheridan Elliot) in Northern Ireland,
it would be assumed that I was a Protestant. That I am, in fact,
a Catholic from the Republic of Ireland would be given away
by my real name and, of course, my accent - a Dublin accent such
as mine and most regional accents of the Republic are easily
distinguishable from Northern ones. In case you're wondering,
I was christened Toirrdhealbhach O Ceallaigh, although I use
an Anglicised "translation" for obvious reasons.
Renaud Dreyer
Is this one man and 1999 women? Ciao,
Renaud Dreyer
Renaud Dreyer
> "Brandon Thornburg" <centre...@NOSPAMyahoo.com> said:
>
> >Uppsala, unless this is a trick question. (I only wonder that because of the
> >quotes around Sweden).
>
> Not Uppsala - but you _are_ on to something... :)
Minneapolis?... Ciao,
Renaud Dreyer
S.T. Pickrell
> Where do US Americans head when they need to see real culture (their
> own words)? Answer: To any place/object older than from 1776.
>
> (It is of course understandable. It's not your fault that USA isn't
> older.)
damnit, i can't even throw a world war ii flame back at you.
damnit all
shawn
Sheridan Elliot
> "Brandon Thornburg" <centre...@NOSPAMyahoo.com> said:
>
> >Uppsala, unless this is a trick question. (I only wonder that because of the
> >quotes around Sweden).
>
> Not Uppsala - but you _are_ on to something... :)
Hmm. Is it something to do with an ethnically Swedish population?
Aside from that, all I can come up with is:
Copenhagen - Very near Malmo, apparently.
Helsinki - founded by a Swedish king, according to my encyclopaedia.
Tallinn, Munich, Warsaw - all occupied by Sweden at various times.
Thomas
>thom...@mailnospam.com (Thomas) said:
>
>>Mormonism is well on its way to becoming a major religion. Already there are
>>nearly 10 million adherents, with a substantial number outside America.
>
>
>
converts. Polygamy was the only practical solution.
BTW, through conversions and large families Mormonism is growing at a
remarkable pace. Mormons also live longer than any group of people on the
planet. Life expectancy is well over 80 for men.
S.T. Pickrell
>
> sven_mi...@magicvillage.de (Sven Mischkies) said:
>
> >anders thelemyr <anderst@_NO_SPAM_NO_UCE_algonet.se> wrote:
>
> >> Returning to the subject: Do you know the name of "Sweden's" 4th largest
> >> city?
>
> >What? There are more than 3 cities in Sweden? Hmm... Stockholm,
> >Göteborg, Malmö - Norrköping? :)
>
uppasala?
shawn
S.T. Pickrell
> distinguishable from Northern ones. In case you're wondering,
> I was christened Toirrdhealbhach O Ceallaigh, although I use
> an Anglicised "translation" for obvious reasons.
something o'kelly. :P
shawn
S.T. Pickrell
>
> "S.T. Pickrell" <spic...@zzapp.org> said:
>
> >damnit, i can't even throw a world war ii flame back at you.
> >damnit all
>
> whipping of Germany?
france surrenders
shawn
Thomas
>someone their religion. Not the most tactful course to
>pursue (or the safest), but it would probably prove
>instructive in your case. If *anyone* describes themselves
>as "Christian" and not "Protestant" or "Catholic" I will
>buy myself a hat and publicly eat it.
That really doesn't affect the debate. Europe contributed very little to
fundamental religious thought.
By the way, should it make you happy, ha ha ha. Ok?
Thomas
>On Wed, 18 Jul 2001 19:34:12 GMT, thom...@mailnospam.com (Thomas)
>wrote:
>
>>In article <3b55df82...@news.cybercity.dk>, le...@vip.cybercity.dk (David
> Tiemroth) wrote:
>>>On Wed, 18 Jul 2001 11:45:03 -0700, "Brandon Thornburg"
>>><centre...@NOSPAMyahoo.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>"David Tiemroth" <le...@vip.cybercity.dk> wrote in message
>>>>news:3b55da72...@news.cybercity.dk...
>>>>> Major? What, scientology?
>>>>
>>>>Mormonism and Ba'hai (I could stand corrected on the Ba'hai point of
>>>>origination).
>>>
>>>So this *is* a new definition of the word "major", then?
>>>
>>
>>Mormonism is well on its way to becoming a major religion. Already there are
>>nearly 10 million adherents, with a substantial number outside America.
>
>Once it gets around 5 times as big, it might very well almost be close
>to being a major religion.
I've already said that "major" wasn't the right word. BTW, it will get to 50
million. And, yes, it is nearly self-evident :)
Sven Mischkies
> Toirrdhealbhach O Ceallaigh,
[x] Voicemails in Newsgroups now! :)
Thomas
>
>
No alcohol, tobacco or coffee. But, yes, they seem to be very happy people.
Nate505
<spic...@zzapp.org> wrote:
>anders thelemyr wrote:
>>
>> "S.T. Pickrell" <spic...@zzapp.org> said:
>
>> >but can they beat poland?
>>
>> Piece Of Cake
>>
>> ECQ
>> 1999-03-31 Poland - Sweden 0-1
>> 1999-09-10 Sweden - Poland 2-0
>
>ah yes.
>
>the rss dream world cup group: australia, usa, poland, sweden
>updates always welcome ;)
My god, the amount of replies would crash my machine...it looks like
at least 3 of those four teams will qualify, although Sweden has a
crucial game in Turkey in September. Maybe Australia will pull off a
win against the 5th place SA team, but I doubt it...
Nate505
>> PS: My interest in this remarkable little state was initially sparked by
>> seeing them compete in the 1994 World Cup qualifiers - just goes to
>> show how *full* European participation in the World Cup is a cultural
>> and moral, as well as a sporting, necessity.
>
>I notice, though, that you don't claim to know where the place is... ;-)
I always considered myself fairly knowledgeable in geography, but I
did have to look it up on a map to figure out where SM was, or
is...never heard of it before I saw the name in a WCQ group. Why
doesn't Vatican City have a team?
Nate505
Elliot) wrote:
>"Brandon Thornburg" <centre...@NOSPAMyahoo.com> wrote in message
>news:9j477f$h3k$1...@fremont.ohsu.edu...
>
><On San Marino>
>
>> In fact, if you asked 100 people from North America, I bet
>> 100 of them would say it was the capital city of their state or province,
>> but that's North America for you.
>
>*I* bet at least 50 of them would say "he used to play for the Miami
>Dolphins."
>
>Isn't there a San Marino in California, btw?
Yup, it's part of the congolmorate that is the Los Angeles area.
Interestingly enough, the country has about 2x as many people as the
city does in CA.....it's a rather small city by California standards.
David Tiemroth
Elliot) wrote:
>"anders thelemyr" <anderst@_NO_SPAM_NO_UCE_algonet.se> wrote in message news:f93clto908jhh713e...@4ax.com...
>> "Brandon Thornburg" <centre...@NOSPAMyahoo.com> said:
>>
>> >Uppsala, unless this is a trick question. (I only wonder that because of the
>> >quotes around Sweden).
>>
>> Not Uppsala - but you _are_ on to something... :)
>
>Hmm. Is it something to do with an ethnically Swedish population?
>Aside from that, all I can come up with is:
>
>Copenhagen - Very near Malmo, apparently.
This better not be the answer you're looking for, Anders...
David.
"Denmark? Isn't that the capital of Sweden?" "It might be. You stay
here while I go find out... and find a shotgun."
Sven Mischkies
> No alcohol, tobacco or coffee. But, yes, they seem to be very happy people.
So is there a better argument for not taking drugs? *g*
Mango
Nate505 <nate5...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:b2cclt0saq74lb3ud...@4ax.com...
They only have one permanent resident?
Cheers
Mango
>
David Tiemroth
wrote:
Wow. I'm a mormon and I don't even know it.
David.
Argh, I even have a beard!
Sven Mischkies
> Why
> doesn't Vatican City have a team?
They have one (or do they have a league? Damn, i read about this some
years ago...), maybe they become part of FIFA in the future.
ne...@veko.mediaspamlessone.net
> On Wed, 18 Jul 2001 23:41:49 GMT, thom...@mailnospam.com (Thomas)
> wrote:
>>No alcohol, tobacco or coffee.
> Wow. I'm a mormon and I don't even know it.
> David.
> Argh, I even have a beard!
Any other Mormon characteristics you going to admit to?
C'mon, starts with "P" ...
Doug Karpa-Wilson
Sheridan Elliot wrote:
> Thomas, Doug Karpa-Wilson et al (incidentally, who is this "al" and
> why do I never see his contributions - have I killfiled him by mistake?)
> reacted in a most-unwarrantably hostile manner to my post about
> San Marino, Europe and the attractions of those two places.
Squeeze me? I didn't react to your post about San Marino at all! You need to
get your attributions straight, kiddo!
I did take exception to this 70% of cultural and social achievements coming out
of Europe business. I think that's quite indefensible. You decide to denigrate
the cultural production of most of the world, and you bet the hostile reaction
will be absolutely warranted. I'm disappointed you can't see that. I thought
more highly of you.
>
>
> Allow me to clarify.
>
> Cultural:
> By cultural, I mean artistic and sporting. I was
> not referring to folk culture, which is basically the same all over
> the world. Most major art-forms and sports have their
> roots and/or refinement and best exponents in Europe.
You need to get out more and take a look at non Western Art! Frankly, viewed
against the backdrop of the artistic production of the entire world, European
art is fairly limited. Much of what has happened in the twentieth century has
been in the Americas, in case that's what you are thinking.
What about music? Western music is also quite limited in scope comparitively
(as is that from everywhere else mostly) It is just one piece of a very large
pie. Folk art is also not the same everywhere. Certainly folk music isn't!
>
> Scientific:
> Brandon Thornburg wrote:
> > Scientific progress has
> > been primarily European _until_the_1800s_, granted-but only if you're
> > discussing traditional science and not things like acupuncture etc
>
> Well, I'm not going to argue about science with either you or Doug,
> so you can have this one!
I think we all agree that its the scientific realm is where Europe is the
strongest, actually.
>
> Politics:
> Political philosophies with roots in Europe:
> Liberalism, Communism, Capitalism, Socialism, Democratic Socialism,
> Christian Socialism, Fascism, etc etc (including parliamentary democracy
> itself, for that matter) - basically the governing philosophies of every
> country in the world, past or present
Actually, parlimentary and democratic systems have cropped up all over the
world in different places at different times. Also, theocracies and monarchies
of various flavors appear all over. I suppose you've forgotten all about
confucius. Europeans anhiliated many of the various forms of government
thoughout the world, so the don't remain perhaps, but that's not really a claim
I'd be trumpeting around, myself.
I probably should have anticipated that people
> would not take that post in the spirit in which it was intended, but
> an attack on San Marino is an attack on me.
I don't think anyone attacked San Marino. Sounds like a nice place, although I
was wondering about the world's oldest republic moniker. When does that date
to? I suspect there are so American Nations that might have them beat, but who
knows.
Doug
--
Thomas wrote:
Didn't you say a few months ago that the USA will win [the World Cup] before
England does again?
Can we please win one match outside of the USA before we make these comments?
Doug Karpa-Wilson
:
> (Thomas)
> wrote:
>
> >What is quite remarkable is how you could make that claim, especially as
> >regards to "cultural." For example, it has produced no major religions. Even
> >the USA has accomplished that much in such a brief period of time.
>
> Major? What, scientology?
>
> David.
LOL! That was my thought, but I didn't want to ask. I'm not sure I want to know what strange things have been
cooked up in dark corners of this often very frightening land...
Doug Karpa-Wilson
Brandon Thornburg wrote:
> "David Tiemroth" <le...@vip.cybercity.dk> wrote in message
> news:3b55da72...@news.cybercity.dk...
> > Major? What, scientology?
>
> Mormonism and Ba'hai (I could stand corrected on the Ba'hai point of
> origination).
Baha'iism is more or less originally from Iran, although the Bahaullah
ended up in Haifa where the religous center is today.
Doug Karpa-Wilson
David Tiemroth wrote:
> This better not be the answer you're looking for, Anders...
>
> David.
> "Denmark? Isn't that the capital of Sweden?" "It might be. You stay
> here while I go find out... and find a shotgun."
LOL! I was just watching "The Kingdom" the other day. I wish I'd had the presence of mind to try to learn the Swedish phrase
for "Danish scum" that Helmer keeps repeating...
Doug Karpa-Wilson
Brandon Thornburg wrote:
> "anders thelemyr" <anderst@_NO_SPAM_NO_UCE_algonet.se> wrote in message
> news:p7vblt8gvf26u4qbl...@4ax.com...
> > thom...@mailnospam.com (Thomas) said:
> >
> > >Mormonism is well on its way to becoming a major religion. Already there
> are
> > >nearly 10 million adherents, with a substantial number outside America.
> >
> > Well, they do offer harems for the men.
>
> Not any more. They did away with polygamy as a practice when it looked like
> it would block Utah's statehood.
Kind of like the prophet deciding caffiene was really o.k. once the Mormom
Church bought a major stake in Coca Cola.
Doug Karpa-Wilson
Thomas wrote:
How about Nietzsche?
Thomas
>Nate505 <nate5...@mindspring.com> wrote:
>
>> Why
>> doesn't Vatican City have a team?
>
>
>They have one (or do they have a league? Damn, i read about this some
>years ago...), maybe they become part of FIFA in the future.
>
would be pretty tough as well.
>
>Ciao,
> SM
Sven Mischkies
> With 870 members, I can't imagine how you could get a league going. One team
> would be pretty tough as well.
It's enough to play a summer tournament or something like that. If only
the 'Spiegel'-archive would be online... :(
Doan Nguyen
Renaud Dreyer wrote:
>
> "Brandon Thornburg" <centre...@NOSPAMyahoo.com> writes:
>
> > "anders thelemyr" <anderst@_NO_SPAM_NO_UCE_algonet.se> wrote in message
> > news:to0clt4rif7s5jkq5...@4ax.com...
> > > "Brandon Thornburg" <centre...@NOSPAMyahoo.com> said:
> > >
> > > >Not any more. They did away with polygamy as a practice when it looked
> > like
> > > >it would block Utah's statehood.
> > >
> > > Really? Should perhaps listen more to those funny Men In Black knocking on
> > > the door every now and then... :)
> > >
> > > You say in practice meaning they don't do it at all or just that they
> > don't
> > > do it in open?
> >
> > I read somewhere (you know, the fine publication published by the "They" in
> > "They say...") that there are something like 2000 hard-line polygamist
> > Mormons left, and hidden. The rest of the church basically did a reversal
> > and actually will excommunicate for it now.
>
> Is this one man and 1999 women? Ciao,
No wonder he's got no time to post on RSS
Doan
Sheridan Elliot
news:3B561AC4...@zzapp.org...
Very good, Pickrell - go to the top of the class.
Actually my ancestors dispensed with the "O'", so I'm just
a plain Kelly like most people who use the Anglicised form
of the surname.
Sheridan Elliot
news:3B564EBE...@BLOCK.indiana.edu...
>
>
> Sheridan Elliot wrote:
>
> > Thomas, Doug Karpa-Wilson et al (incidentally, who is this "al" and
> > why do I never see his contributions - have I killfiled him by mistake?)
> > reacted in a most-unwarrantably hostile manner to my post about
> > San Marino, Europe and the attractions of those two places.
>
> Squeeze me? I didn't react to your post about San Marino at all! You
> need to get your attributions straight, kiddo!
Not that it matters, but I think you'll find that you did. And you've been
warned about this misquotation business already this week :-). Look up
at the original quote above your response. Apparently you got as far
as "San Marino" and then suffered some kind of blackout. In case
this recurs, I will give you a hand in reading what follows. The words
", Europe and the attraction of these two places."
> I did take exception to this 70% of cultural and social achievements
> coming out of Europe business. I think that's quite indefensible. You
> decide to denigrate the cultural production of most of the world,
I did no such thing. And as for the figure of 70%, it was a completely
arbitrary prop on which to er...prop a few jocular remarks. What really
gets me is the haze of hostility that seems to cloud the objectivity of
many Americans on this ng (and you are not, as it happens, by any
means to worst offender in this regard - nor are most of the others
who've participated in this particular discussion) whenever the word
"Europe" is mentioned, even in such an obviously light-hearted
context as the one(s) which sparked this debate.
> > and you bet the hostile reaction
> > will be absolutely warranted. I'm disappointed you can't see that. I
> >thought more highly of you.
I must say I'm very disappointed that a lot of highly intelligent and
good-natured contributors to this newsgroup failed to take into account the
humorous intentions of my original post before dashing to their keyboards.
There was some truth (a good deal of it open to dispute, admittedly) in what
I originally wrote, but I was trying to be humorous in response to
some equally humorous joshing about my beloved San Marino :-), the
light-hearted tenor of which I acknowledged in my response.
How come no-one reacted strongly to the section in brackets below?
>That a continent with a population of less than 720 million people should
>have produced around 70% of the world's cultural, political and
>scientific progress is truly remarkable (although possibly attributable
>to the weather keeping our ancestors indoors for long periods. )
Anyone with a strong enough fondness for nit-picking could point
out that only some parts of northern and eastern Europe routinely
suffer from poor weather. But no-one did, because they recognised
it as a jocular remark not intended to be taken seriously.
> > Cultural:
> > By cultural, I mean artistic and sporting. I was
> > not referring to folk culture, which is basically the same all over
> > the world. Most major art-forms and sports have their
> > roots and/or refinement and best exponents in Europe.
>
> You need to get out more and take a look at non Western Art! Frankly,
> viewed against the backdrop of the artistic production of the entire
world,
> European art is fairly limited. Much of what has happened in the
> twentieth centur has been in the Americas, in case that's what you are
> thinking.
That word "roots" again. Hence my inclusion of American art as art
of European origin. And I really, really, *really* don't want to start
slinging transatlantic mud and have, as I think my record shows, always
tried to (and encouraged others to) avoid that pointless exercise. But
I feel compelled to point out that the best-known American art was not
only influenced by European art, but that many of its most prominent
exponents were, in fact, Europeans (or at least born in Europe) such as
de Kooning and Rothko.
> What about music? Western music is also quite limited in scope
> comparatively (as is that from everywhere else mostly) It is just one
> piece of a very large pie. Folk art is also not the same everywhere.
> Certainly folk music isn't!
On a superficial examination, no. But the themes of folk art are certainly
identical the world over. And kindly do not mention the phrase "folk
music" in my presence - if you grew up in Ireland, you'd have been
diddly-eyed to the eyeballs and had your fill of it by the age of ten.
> > Scientific:
>
> I think we all agree that its the scientific realm is where Europe is the
> strongest, actually.
Again, I'm not really qualified to dispute that, but I would have thought
that most (modern) technological and scientific progress was made in
the USA.
> > Politics:
> > Political philosophies with roots in Europe:
> > Liberalism, Communism, Capitalism, Socialism, Democratic Socialism,
> > Christian Socialism, Fascism, etc etc (including parliamentary democracy
> > itself, for that matter) - basically the governing philosophies of every
> > country in the world, past or present
> Actually, parliamentary and democratic systems have cropped up all over
the
> world in different places at different times. Also, theocracies and
> monarchies of various flavors appear all over. I suppose you've forgotten
> all about Confucius. Europeans anhiliated many of the various forms of
> government thoughout the world, so they don't remain perhaps, but that's
> not really a claim I'd be trumpeting around, myself.
Firstly, I wasn't seriously "trumpeting" that fact, debatable though it is.
But is China governed according to the teachings of Confucius, or
according to a hybrid of two European "inventions" - Communism (or rather,
a perversion thereof) and capitalism? And while most of the above
philosophies have been exhaustively discussed and written about, how
sophisticated is the philosophy of "do as we say or we'll kill you" that
dominated "political" thought in most of the world (including Europe, and
relatively recently too) over the centuries?
> I don't think anyone attacked San Marino. Sounds like a nice place,
> although I was wondering about the world's oldest republic moniker.
> Then does that date to? I suspect there are so American Nations that
> might have them beat, but who knows.
301 AD, apparently, although its independence was only recognised by the
Pope in 1291.
PS: I know you, for one, would almost certainly be above such pettiness,
but it would be so, so sad if the angry American response to that
original post was motivated by the reference to San Marino's
"active eurocommunist party." I prefer to think that this was not the case.
Sheridan Elliot
>
> I read somewhere (you know, the fine publication published by the "They"
in
> "They say...")
:-) Best gag I've seen here in a while. Now, if I can only find a way
of twisting its meaning into an insult against Europe...
Thomas
>sven_mi...@magicvillage.de (Sven Mischkies) said:
>
>>Thomas <thom...@mailnospam.com> wrote:
>>
>>> No alcohol, tobacco or coffee. But, yes, they seem to be very happy people.
>>
>>
>>So is there a better argument for not taking drugs? *g*
>
>Tobacco is probably _the_ best killer though of both the active and the
>passive smokers.
>
>
A drink is fine. 5-10% of the population in the USA, and much higher in many
other countries, take a lot (5-20) more than one drink daily. Alcohol is a
major killer.
Thomas
crying. I felt like I lived in a fascist country.
>Doan
Shawn Pickrell
> The reason was fairly straight forward: there were a lot more female
> converts. Polygamy was the only practical solution.
i thought it all began when jos. smith had a hankering for his wife's
comely maid.
> BTW, through conversions and large families Mormonism is growing at a
> remarkable pace. Mormons also live longer than any group of people on
> the planet. Life expectancy is well over 80 for men.
healthy diet. they truly believe and practise the body is a temple bit.
shawn
Shawn Pickrell
> >No alcohol, tobacco or coffee.
>
> Wow. I'm a mormon and I don't even know it.
>
> David.
> Argh, I even have a beard!
tell that to your girlfriends ;-) see how far you can go ...
shawn
Shawn Pickrell
>
> Nate505 <nate5...@mindspring.com> wrote:
>
> > Why
> > doesn't Vatican City have a team?
>
> They have one (or do they have a league? Damn, i read about this some
> years ago...), maybe they become part of FIFA in the future.
they have a five-man squad that was doing surprising well.
shawn
Shawn Pickrell
> Kind of like the prophet deciding caffiene was really o.k. once the
> Mormom Church bought a major stake in Coca Cola.
eh? when did that happen.
shawn
Shawn Pickrell
> With 870 members, I can't imagine how you could get a league going. One
> team would be pretty tough as well.
depends. they can be a part of serie d or whatever those leagues are
below serie d.
shawn
Shawn Pickrell
> A Mormon was recently convicted for polygamy. All his wives and
> children were crying. I felt like I lived in a fascist country.
perhaps you should see one of the oprah shows where they show the
women who escaped polygamy.
apparently it is the regular practice to marry girls off at 14.
shawn
Sven Mischkies
> apparently it is the regular practice to marry girls off at 14.
Ah, when they're young and crispy... ;)))
Thomas
I would think serie z.
Doug Karpa-Wilson
Shawn Pickrell wrote:
Late eighties, early nineties. In addition to being a proselyzing
organization, they are also a wealthy business empire.
Thomas
>Thomas wrote:
>
>> A Mormon was recently convicted for polygamy. All his wives and
>> children were crying. I felt like I lived in a fascist country.
>
>perhaps you should see one of the oprah shows where they show the
>women who escaped polygamy.
>
I'm sure she would love to discredit it.
>apparently it is the regular practice to marry girls off at 14.
>
Ok, but where we're talking about consenting adults it seems like Nazi Germany
to throw someone in jail for 20 years.
>shawn
Doug Karpa-Wilson
anders thelemyr wrote:
> "Brandon Thornburg" <centre...@NOSPAMyahoo.com> said:
>
> >No one, I think, can accuse me of being anything but complimentary to
> >Europe. In many ways I'd rather be in Europe than in North America. But I
> >can't believe how narrow-minded this statement is. Scientific progress has
> >been primarily European _until_the_1800s_, granted-but only if you're
> >discussing traditional science and not things like acupuncture etc. Since
> >the 1800s? Overtaken by the US Political? Eh. I can give you 70% on that.
> >But cultural? 70%? That's narrow if not racist, my friend.
>
> Where do US Americans head when they need to see real culture (their own
> words)? Answer: To any place/object older than from 1776.
Wrong again, bucko! The amount of cultural/artisitic production post 1776 is
massive and very popular here. I'm sure you've never heard of, say, folks
like Copeland, Whitman, O'keefe, Adams, and so on. It may be popular in
Europe to think that the US doesn't have a very rich artistic tradition all
it's own, but that view is incorrect. There may be more interest in medieval
European music in the US than in Europe (or not), but then there's more
interest in the US in art from all kinds of times and places than in their
native countries. In fact, you'll have an easier time finding 17th and 18th
century structures in New England than in the original. I know I've looked in
both places.
You should also notice that the history here does go back further than 1776.
For example, my first European ancestors got to what is now the US in the
1530's.