World Soccers' 50 Greatest Derbies
Sheridan Elliot
49: Tenrife vs. Las Palmas
48: Mohun Bagan vs. East Bengal
47: Sarajevo vs. Zeljeznicar
46: ASEC Abidjan vs. Africa Sports
45: Anderlecht vs. Club Brugge
44: FC Copenhagen vs. Brondby
43: Alianza Lima vs. Universitario
42: Arsenal vs. Tottenham
41: Beitar Jerusalem vs. Hapoel Tel Aviv
40: Hajduk Split vs. Dinamo Zagreb
39: Barcelona vs. Emelec
38: Rapid Wien vs. Austria Wien
37: Basle vs. Zurich
36: Raja Casablanca vs. Wydad Casablanca
35: America vs. Deportivo Cali
34: Genoa vs. Sampdoria
33: CSKA Sofia vs. Levski Sofia
32: AIK Stockhold vs. Djurgardens
31: Ferencvaros vs. Ujpest
30: Cerro Porteno vs. Olimpia
29: Rosario Central vs. Newell's Old Boys
28: Liverpool vs. Manchester United
27: Corinthians vs. Santos
26: Slavia Prague vs. Sparta Prague
25: Kaizer Chiefs vs. Orlando Pirates
24: Steaua Bucharest vs. Dinamo Bucharest
23: Spartak Moscow vs. CSKA Moscow
22: Pirouzi vs. Esteghlal
21: Nacional vs. Penarol
20: America vs. Guadalajara
19: Racing Club vs. Independiente
18: Corinthians vs. Sao Paulo
17: Benfica vs. Porto
16: Athletic Bilbao vs. Real Sociedad
15: Milan vs. Internazionale
14: Olympiakos vs. Panathinaikos
13: Flamengo vs. Vasco da Gama
12: Juventus vs. Fiorentina
11: Marseille vs. Paris Saint-Germain
10: Partizan Belgrade vs. Red Star Belgrade
9: Betis vs. Sevilla
8: Al Ahly vs. Zamalek
7: Schalke vs. Borussia Dortmund
6: Lazio vs. Roma
5: Ajax vs. Feyenoord
4: Galatasaray vs. Fenerbahce
3: Celtic vs. Rangers
2: Boca Juniors vs. River Plate
1: Real Madrid vs. Barcelona
Some odd selections. Juve vs. Fiorentina ahead of Milan-Inter and in such a
high position, for one. Seems to be a very strong emphasis on bitterness and
violence or the potential for violence rather than the occasion or history
associated with the derby.
SMT
wrote:
Boca-River, Betis-Sevilla and Lazio-Roma are particularly vibrant
occasions. I've been present at all three. RM-Barcelona is a classic
game but does not reach such levels of enthusiasm, in my opinion. I've
also been to Fla-Flu (Flamengo-Fluminense), huge game, which I don't
see listed.
Best,
smt
Sheridan Elliot
"SMT" <symbi...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:fce44800-01c1-4fe0...@59g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
> I've
> also been to Fla-Flu (Flamengo-Fluminense), huge game, which I don't
> see listed.
Tim Vickery's rationale for excluding it in favour of Flamengo-Vasco: "The
Rio de Janeiro derby best known abroad is Flamengo against Fluminense. This,
though, tends to overstate the importance of the latter, a club of the elite
who have had many gifted writers boosting their profile."
PS: Apologies for misplaced apostrophe in thread title, slip of the finger.
Paul C
<sherida...@gmail.com> wrote:
>3: Celtic vs. Rangers
>2: Boca Juniors vs. River Plate
>1: Real Madrid vs. Barcelona
RM-Barca not a true derby by any stretch of the imagination.
William A. T. Clark
"Sheridan Elliot" <sherida...@gmail.com> wrote:
This is complete BS. No Liverpool-Everton? It isn't worth the page it is
printed on.
Paul C
>
>RM-Barca not a true derby by any stretch of the imagination.
And I hadn't even noticed this gem:
Juventus vs. Fiorentina
!!!!!
Google Beta User
> 50: Gremio vs. Internacional
Anyone can tell more about this one?
> 41: Beitar Jerusalem vs. Hapoel Tel Aviv
Maccabi?
> 12: Juventus vs. Fiorentina
Huh? I was unaware of this rivalry/derby. Especially this high.
> 11: Marseille vs. Paris Saint-Germain
I have many francophone friends. They are ALL without exception
Marseille fans, and almost never talk about PSG or Lyon.
> 10: Partizan Belgrade vs. Red Star Belgrade
> 9: Betis vs. Sevilla
> 8: Al Ahly vs. Zamalek
> 7: Schalke vs. Borussia Dortmund
> 6: Lazio vs. Roma
I understand this is a cauldron.
> 5: Ajax vs. Feyenoord
Where do PSV fit in?
> 4: Galatasaray vs. Fenerbahce
Where do Beskitas fit in?
MH
How is he defining "derby". I know the word is used differently in
different places, but to me it implies the teams come from the same city
or at least (eg. Dortmund -Schalke, Köln -Gladbach) from the same
region, with a strong element of local rivalry.
America -Chivas is "el clasico" and the biggest rivalry in Mexico, but I
am not sure I would call it a derby, whereas Atlas -Chivas or Pumas -
America would be a derby.
I would say the same for Barca- Real - not really a derby in the sense I
understand it.
And putting Marseille -PSG is pretty meaningless, ditto for Basel -FCZ
(why not Grasshoppers - FCZ ?)
>
>
SMT
For example, Real Sociedad-Athletic. The Basque Country is small, it
only has two big cities, so that's the Basque derby. Same in the
Canaries (mentioned on the list). In Galicia, another small country,
it's Deportivo-Celta. Corunha and Vigo only have one big team each. In
Barcelona, it's Barcelona-Espanyol, which seems to have lost
excitement over the years.
Best,
smt
Sheridan Elliot
"Red Moon" <red...@redmoon.redmoon> wrote in message
news:j82q74t2mtp88kol0...@4ax.com...
> "Sheridan Elliot" <sherida...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> What is the souce of this list as there are several in here that are
> not derbies.
>
>>28: Liverpool vs. Manchester United
>
It's World Soccer magazine as stated in the thread title. And "derby" is
interpreted differently throughout the world. If you balanced out the
regional variations you'd probably come up with a definition such as
"standout fixture between two teams from the same country sharing a strong
rivalry based on a history of mutual antagonism."
MH
SMT wrote:
> There are some "derbies" where theteams are not from the same city.
I know, that's what I said:
"but to me it implies the teams come from the same city or at least (eg.
Dortmund -Schalke, K�ln -Gladbach) from the same region, with a strong
element of local rivalry."
same region would include Basque and Galician derbies, Sunderland/
Newcastle, possibly even Manchester United/Liverpool (distance is small
by Canadian standards).
I am just saying that in the usage of the word I am most familiar with,
you would not normally apply the term "derby" to Barcelona-Madrid,
Bayern/Bremen, Marseille -PSG etc - even those were once, or are
currently, rivalries between the two biggest and/or most successful
clubs in a country at a given moment.
The Doctor
SMT <symbi...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>On Jul 15, 2:57 pm, "Sheridan Elliot" <sheridanell...@gmail.com>
>wrote:
>> 50: Gremio vs. Internacional
>> 49: Tenrife vs. Las Palmas
>> 48: Mohun Bagan vs. East Bengal
>> 47: Sarajevo vs. Zeljeznicar
>> 46: ASEC Abidjan vs. Africa Sports
>> 45: Anderlecht vs. Club Brugge
>> 44: FC Copenhagen vs. Brondby
>> 43: Alianza Lima vs. Universitario
>> 42: Arsenal vs. Tottenham
Moreso ARsenal V Man U or Arsenal v Liverpool.
--
Member - Liberal International
This is doc...@nl2k.ab.ca Ici doc...@nl2k.ab.ca
God, Queen and country! Beware Anti-Christ rising!
USA petition for dissolution of your nation!
MH
Even with that broad definition (which, I agree, is the sense accorded
to "derby" in at least some places), there are some bizarre ones on the
list eg. why Zürich and Basel ? It is true that those clubs have won
the last 5 championships between them, but only two were hotly contested
between those two clubs. Back before then you have a long spell when
neither club was at the forefront - both were even relegated for while.
There may be some ancient tradition I don't know about, but certainly
when I lived briefly in Zurich, the big rivalry was FCZ-Grasshoppers,
and Servette was seen as more ominous than Basel.
Maybe I am just out of date, as the close finish to the 2006 season
might have sparked a serious rivalry.
I also don't get Juve-Fiorentina. Maybe Daniele can explain.
>
>
Benny
> From : nos...@ucalgary.ca
> I also don't get Juve-Fiorentina. Maybe Daniele can explain.
It started Fiorentina lost out to Juve for the scudetto on the last day
of the season in the 1980s. Juve got a penalty while Fiorentina had a
'valid' goal disallowed. I have seen the VT but can't remember whether
it's just sour grapes or the typical Juve bias. When Juve signed Baggio
from Fiorentina in 1990 there were riots and the hatred intensified. The
Milan derby isn't that heated just glamorous similarly the Rome derby
doesn't have the level of history as Lazio aren't a big name, Man City
to Roma's Man United. Juve vs Fiorentina would rank #1 in Italy from a
heat standpoint and Inter vs Juve or Roma vs Juve maybe #2. Milan have
the most heat with Verona.
http://soccer-europe.com
Rss feed : http://soccer-europe.com/RSS/News.xml
REDD...@nospam.com
<anthu_001@no_-_spam_.hotmail.com> wrote:
>Quoting Sheridan Elliot in rec.sport.soccer:
>
>>It's World Soccer magazine as stated in the thread title. And "derby" is
>>interpreted differently throughout the world. If you balanced out the
>>regional variations you'd probably come up with a definition such as
>>"standout fixture between two teams from the same country sharing a strong
>>rivalry based on a history of mutual antagonism."
>
>But that's clearly insufficient. A match between Bodens BK - Sävast AIF is
>clearly a derby. Both teams are from the city of Boden. But it is certainly
>not a standout fixture, nor a strong rivalry (etc). But still absolutely
>100% a derby.
>
>I think derby must be defined within a context. There can be local derbies,
>regional derbies, country derbies, national team derbies, confederation
>derbies, etc, BUT, the teams must have SOME geographical common denominator
>at SOME level (the context chosen).
>
>I think Man U - 'pool, for instance, would go under "historical rivalry",
>not "derby".
Liverpool and Manchester are only about 20 miles apart
REDD...@nospam.net
No Spurs V Arsenal either
It's a joke
REDD...@nospam.net
(The Doctor) wrote:
>In article <fce44800-01c1-4fe0...@59g2000hsb.googlegroups.com>,
>SMT <symbi...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>On Jul 15, 2:57 pm, "Sheridan Elliot" <sheridanell...@gmail.com>
>>wrote:
>>> 50: Gremio vs. Internacional
>>> 49: Tenrife vs. Las Palmas
>>> 48: Mohun Bagan vs. East Bengal
>>> 47: Sarajevo vs. Zeljeznicar
>>> 46: ASEC Abidjan vs. Africa Sports
>>> 45: Anderlecht vs. Club Brugge
>>> 44: FC Copenhagen vs. Brondby
>>> 43: Alianza Lima vs. Universitario
>>> 42: Arsenal vs. Tottenham
>
>Moreso ARsenal V Man U or Arsenal v Liverpool.
>
Arsenal's derby is with Spurs Doc not United.
Lléo
news:g5isek$8cl$1...@registered.motzarella.org...
>
> "SMT" <symbi...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:fce44800-01c1-4fe0...@59g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
>
>> I've
>> also been to Fla-Flu (Flamengo-Fluminense), huge game, which I don't
>> see listed.
>
> Tim Vickery's rationale for excluding it in favour of Flamengo-Vasco: "The
> Rio de Janeiro derby best known abroad is Flamengo against Fluminense.
> This, though, tends to overstate the importance of the latter, a club of
> the elite who have had many gifted writers boosting their profile."
The main one of them being Nelson Rodrigues, a journalist who apart from
being an excellent writer, was also a fanatic tricolor. According to him,
the Fla-Flu rivalry began "40 minutes before nothingness".
I agree with Vickery. Vasco has historically been a higher profile club than
Fluminense, and its rivalry with Flamengo has much more "morbo" than the
Fla-Flu, if you know what I mean. Flamengo and Fluminense have a lot in
common, in spite of appearances, and indeed Flamengo's football department
was founded by ex-Fluminense athletes. OTOH, the rivalry in the "Clássico
dos Milhões" (Derby of the Millions, Vasco vs Flamengo) began when both
sides were regatta clubs only, before they had football teams. Then it spun
off to football and other sports.
--
Lléo
Lléo
news:7916c45c-8ce8-4c85...@56g2000hsm.googlegroups.com...
On Jul 15, 2:57 pm, "Sheridan Elliot" <sheridanell...@gmail.com>
wrote:
> > 50: Gremio vs. Internacional
>
> Anyone can tell more about this one?
Well, the Gre-Nal is the biggest rivalry in the south of Brasil, and one of
the biggest in the country. It is VERY intense, think Boca vs River, Peñarol
vs Nacional, Real vs Barça. Rio Grande do Sul, Brasil's southernmost state,
is divided between blue and red.
Here's a bit more about it:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gre-nal
Sounded ok to me, but we probably should wait for Jesus Petry for an expert
opinion :-)
--
Lléo
William Clark
REDD...@nospam.net wrote:
Yes, it will have LA Galaxy v San Jose Earthquakes next.
William Clark
"Sheridan Elliot" <sherida...@gmail.com> wrote:
The I would say that anyone who pays money to subscribe to World Soccer
Magazine is a complete idiot.
Pat@home
>
>> 5: Ajax vs. Feyenoord
>
> Where do PSV fit in?
Traditionally it's seen as the bigger game because of the history
between the two teams, and the historic rivalry between the two largest
cities in the Netherlands, Amsterdam and Rotterdam.
According to a lot of people in the Netherlands, notably from the
Amsterdam/Rotterdam area, Ajax and Feyenoord are still the two biggest
names in Dutch football. It would be quite interesting to see what the
rest of the world thinks of this.
/Pat
Coach
(in article <wclark2-12F3BE...@charm.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>):
Earlier this year the Galaxy-Chivas USA match was described by ESPN as the
"Superclasico". :-))))
Jellore
> On Tue, 15 Jul 2008 20:24:03 -0400, William Clark wrote
>
>
>
> > In article <l2bq74ho0nat3kruq2tshmgq6uddtgp...@4ax.com>,
> > REDDE...@nospam.net wrote:
>
> >> On Tue, 15 Jul 2008 15:43:01 -0400, "William A. T. Clark"
> >> <cl...@nospammatsceng.ohio-state.edu> wrote:
>
Derbies have to be organic things. Good luck to the LA thing but
unless it comes from the players or the fans then it won't happen.
Futbolmetrix
news:g5j9mj$msv$1...@registered.motzarella.org...
>
> It started Fiorentina lost out to Juve for the scudetto on the last day of
> the season in the 1980s. Juve got a penalty while Fiorentina had a 'valid'
> goal disallowed.
The Juve penalty was 100% legit, a Catanzaro defender stopped the ball on
the line with his hand and prevented a certain goal. The Fiorentina goal,
well... you judge for yourself...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o7AG6tpThzA
>I have seen the VT but can't remember whether it's just sour grapes or the
>typical Juve bias. When Juve signed Baggio from Fiorentina in 1990 there
>were riots and the hatred intensified.
That's pretty much it. The rivalry has really cooled off in the past few
years, especially after Fiorentina's relegation and a bunch of players being
exchanged between the two clubs (Di Livio, Torricelli, Maresca, Miccoli,
Mutu, Balzaretti, Chiellini, Bojinov).
The most heated rivalry in Italy nowadays is between Juve and Inter, for
obvious reasons. And for once, this is a rivalry involving Juve that is not
one-sided (or maybe even one sided in the other direction).
D
Matthias Mühlich
> How is he defining "derby". I know the word is used differently in
> different places, but to me it implies the teams come from the same city
> or at least (eg. Dortmund -Schalke, Köln -Gladbach) from the same
> region, with a strong element of local rivalry.
Nice. That's exactly what I wanted to reply to this post... :-)
Benny
> The Juve penalty was 100% legit, a Catanzaro defender stopped the
ball on
> the line with his hand and prevented a certain goal. The Fiorentina
goal,
> well... you judge for yourself...
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o7AG6tpThzA
I don't see a valid reason to disallow the Fiorentina goal but as you
said the Juve penalty was legit.
Broadway Blue
> In article
> <fce44800-01c1-4fe0...@59g2000hsb.googlegroups.com>,
> SMT <symbi...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> On Jul 15, 2:57 pm, "Sheridan Elliot" <sheridanell...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>> 50: Gremio vs. Internacional
>>> 49: Tenrife vs. Las Palmas
>>> 48: Mohun Bagan vs. East Bengal
>>> 47: Sarajevo vs. Zeljeznicar
>>> 46: ASEC Abidjan vs. Africa Sports
>>> 45: Anderlecht vs. Club Brugge
>>> 44: FC Copenhagen vs. Brondby
>>> 43: Alianza Lima vs. Universitario
>>> 42: Arsenal vs. Tottenham
>
> Moreso ARsenal V Man U or Arsenal v Liverpool.
If you think Arsenal v Man Utd or Arsenal v Liverpool is more a derby
than Arsenal v Tottenham, then you know nothing about football. However,
the whole list is a bit odd, so you are not alone!
Jesus Petry
> "Google Beta User" <wanyik...@gmail.com> escreveu na mensagemnews:7916c45c-8ce8-4c85...@56g2000hsm.googlegroups.com...
Well, that link was a nice sum-up.
It should be noted also that the founders of Internacional had the
idea of creating a new club after being denied membership at Grêmio.
And the Grenal 370 has been already played, the figures are now Inter
137-115-118 Grêmio.
Tchau!
Jesus Petry
MH
REDD...@nospam.net wrote:
> On Tue, 15 Jul 2008 15:43:01 -0400, "William A. T. Clark"
> <cl...@nospammatsceng.ohio-state.edu> wrote:
>
>
>>In article <g5irp6$2f8$1...@registered.motzarella.org>,
>>"Sheridan Elliot" <sherida...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>50: Gremio vs. Internacional
>>>49: Tenrife vs. Las Palmas
>>>48: Mohun Bagan vs. East Bengal
>>>47: Sarajevo vs. Zeljeznicar
>>>46: ASEC Abidjan vs. Africa Sports
>>>45: Anderlecht vs. Club Brugge
>>>44: FC Copenhagen vs. Brondby
>>>43: Alianza Lima vs. Universitario
>>>42: Arsenal vs. Tottenham
LOOK ABOVE !!!
LOOK AT THE LIST AGAIN.
There is lots strange about the list, but considering the differences in
meaning ascribed to derby in different countries, it is not a joke either.
Futbolmetrix
>
> I don't see a valid reason to disallow the Fiorentina goal
You're right. I remembered it as being more of a clear foul, but I guess
everyone is subject to his own biases.
> but as you said the Juve penalty was legit.
For some reason, the folklore has always been about "Brady's penalty", and
not about "Graziani's disallowed goal".
D
Sheridan Elliot
"Futbolmetrix" <futbol...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:g5l73n$qhe$1...@registered.motzarella.org...
> For some reason, the folklore has always been about "Brady's penalty", and
> not about "Graziani's disallowed goal".
I read an interview with Liam Brady about this game a couple of years ago in
which he insisted he didn't want to take the penalty. He knew it was his
last game for Juve as they were replacing him with Platini the next season
and he thought that "being Italians" the fans would have accused him of
missing it out of spite had he not scored. He also said it was a crap
penalty but fortunately the 'keeper dived the wrong way (just shows how
often sportspeople misremember their own careers; as seen in the video, the
'keeper almost saved it.)
The Doctor
Real Madrid and Barcelona considered a derby??
Futbolmetrix
news:g5l84j$2v3$1...@registered.motzarella.org...
>
> "Futbolmetrix" <futbol...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:g5l73n$qhe$1...@registered.motzarella.org...
>
>> For some reason, the folklore has always been about "Brady's penalty",
>> and not about "Graziani's disallowed goal".
>
> I read an interview with Liam Brady about this game a couple of years ago
> in which he insisted he didn't want to take the penalty. He knew it was
> his last game for Juve as they were replacing him with Platini the next
> season and he thought that "being Italians" the fans would have accused
> him of missing it out of spite had he not scored.
Instead, he is remembered with great fondness by Juve fans for his great
professionalism and coolness in taking that penalty. The next player in line
to take the penalty would have been Cabrini. If we think of what happened to
the next penalty taken by Cabrini in his career...
> He also said it was a crap penalty but fortunately the 'keeper dived the
> wrong way (just shows how often sportspeople misremember their own
> careers; as seen in the video, the 'keeper almost saved it.)
Erm... check the video again. The goalkeeper did dive the wrong way.
Interesting additional nugget: one of Catanzaro's central defenders that
year was none other than Claudio Ranieri. Was it him who stopped the ball on
the line and gave Juve the penalty? I can't tell from the video...
D
Jesper Lauridsen
> > Subject : World Soccers' 50 Greatest Derbies
> > From : nos...@ucalgary.ca
>
> > I also don't get Juve-Fiorentina. Maybe Daniele can explain.
>
> It started Fiorentina lost out to Juve for the scudetto on the last day
> of the season in the 1980s. Juve got a penalty while Fiorentina had a
> 'valid' goal disallowed. I have seen the VT but can't remember whether
> it's just sour grapes or the typical Juve bias. When Juve signed Baggio
> from Fiorentina in 1990 there were riots and the hatred intensified.
Sounds like one of those rivalries where only one side is aware of it.
Like Scotland-England.
Paul C
<rors...@sorrystofanet.dk> wrote:
>
>Sounds like one of those rivalries where only one side is aware of it.
>Like Scotland-England.
Scotland's aware of it too.
James Farrar
"too"?
Jesper Lauridsen
Yes, they're too aware of it. Unlike the English who couldn't give a crap.
Paul C
<rors...@sorrystofanet.dk> wrote:
>
>Yes, they're too aware of it. Unlike the English who couldn't give a crap.
What utter nonsense.
William Clark
"Broadway Blue" <blue...@indigo.news> wrote:
Once again, any list of so-called "derbies" that does not have
Liverpool-Everton near the very top is just silly BS.
MH
I think you should add "any more" to your sentence. Up until the 60s,
probably seventies too, the English definitely cared about this rivalry.
Paul C
..after which time the series was phased out, largely because of
violence. On the rare occasions since, when the fixture has been
played, the English clearly cared too.
Quite where Jesper gets the idea the English "couldn't give a crap"
about England-Scotland matches ...goodness only knows.
Sheridan Elliot
> Erm... check the video again. The goalkeeper did dive the wrong way.
So he did. For some reason it looked like the penalty went low to his left
at first glance. Sorry, Chippy!
The state of the goalmouth in Cagliari is incredible. I often stood in worse
(rock-strewn beaches which turned into swamps in the winter), but it's
quaint to see it at Serie A level so relatively recently.
7h@ch
> Erm... check the video again. The goalkeeper did dive the wrong way.
>
> Interesting additional nugget: one of Catanzaro's central defenders that
> year was none other than Claudio Ranieri. Was it him who stopped the ball on
> the line and gave Juve the penalty? I can't tell from the video...
James Farrar
>On Wed, 16 Jul 2008 15:36:58 -0600, MH <nos...@ucalgary.ca> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>>Jesper Lauridsen wrote:
>>> On 2008-07-16, James Farrar <james.s...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>On Wed, 16 Jul 2008 19:22:24 +0100, Paul C <pa...@thersgb.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>On 16 Jul 2008 17:35:49 GMT, Jesper Lauridsen
>>>>><rors...@sorrystofanet.dk> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>Sounds like one of those rivalries where only one side is aware of it.
>>>>>>Like Scotland-England.
>>>>>
>>>>>Scotland's aware of it too.
>>>>
>>>>"too"?
>>>
>>>
>>> Yes, they're too aware of it. Unlike the English who couldn't give a crap.
>>
>>I think you should add "any more" to your sentence. Up until the 60s,
>>probably seventies too, the English definitely cared about this rivalry.
>>
>..after which time the series was phased out, largely because of
>violence. On the rare occasions since, when the fixture has been
>played, the English clearly cared too.
That would be because the three games in the last twenty years were a
European Championships finals match and a European Championships final
qualifier.
There are two things that really mark a football rivalry: a top
ranking in response to the question "who would you most like your team
to beat, all things being equal?" and a desire of the fans to see the
other team lose when playing neutral teams, especially when the
neutral team is disfavoured.
For the first, I suspect Scotland fans would give England the top
ranking, whereas England fans would rank at least Germany and
Argentina ahead of Scotland.
For the second, many England fans would support Scotland when playing
against non-British teams. This is changing, though - mostly in
response to Scots of the Andy Murray "anyone but England" kind.
Paul C
<james.s...@gmail.com> wrote:
>For the second, many England fans would support Scotland when playing
>against non-British teams.
LOL!
>This is changing, though - mostly in
>response to Scots of the Andy Murray "anyone but England" kind.
Are you suggesting this is something new?
Jellore
> On Wed, 16 Jul 2008 22:44:48 +0100, Paul C <p...@thersgb.net> wrote:
> >On Wed, 16 Jul 2008 15:36:58 -0600, MH <nos...@ucalgary.ca> wrote:
>
> >>Jesper Lauridsen wrote:
>
> >>>>On Wed, 16 Jul 2008 19:22:24 +0100, Paul C <p...@thersgb.net> wrote:
>
> >>>>>On 16 Jul 2008 17:35:49 GMT, Jesper Lauridsen
Too true. Many English supporters barrack for Scotland when they play
other countries.
Stephen O'Connell
So Espanyol v Athletico Madrid must be another derby too!
It's a strange list alright Doc. Are you sure you didn't compile it?
James Farrar
>On Thu, 17 Jul 2008 07:32:16 +0100, James Farrar
><james.s...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>For the second, many England fans would support Scotland when playing
>>against non-British teams.
>
>LOL!
Still true, though (as I noted) less common than it used to be.
>>This is changing, though - mostly in
>>response to Scots of the Andy Murray "anyone but England" kind.
>
>Are you suggesting this is something new?
If it's not become more intense, it's become more well-known south of
the border.